Digests from the KALEIDOSCAPES MONTHLY TOPIC
(HOMESCHOOLING) DISCUSSION BOARD
These are the original digests from Kaleidoscapes' MONTHLY TOPIC discussion boards.
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Inclusion/Exclusion -- Social Issues in Homeschooling: Part 2
#123: I gotta make my continuum speech (again!) (Cerelle)
#124: Yep... (Kimmer)
#125: Re: BINGO! (Debbie G.)
#126: Re: BINGO! (Susan)
#127: Re: Yep... (Susan)
#128: Re: family life (Susan)
#129: Re: Yep... (Liz)
#130: Well, it's probably true! (Cerelle)
#131: Re: BINGO! (Susan)
#132: Re: BINGO! (dawne)
#133: Re: BINGO! (Giovanna)
#134: Speaking of exclusion... (Cerelle)
#135: Re: Speaking of exclusion... (Giovanna)
#136: Re: Healthy support group (Cerelle)
#137: Re: Speaking of exclusion... (Cerelle)
#138: Re: Speaking of exclusion... (Giovanna)
#139: Something else I just thought of-- (Cerelle)
#140: Re: How to make inclusive group work (Annette)
#141: Thanks for asking! (long) (Katie)
#142: Re: Thanks for asking! (long) (Annette)
#143: Oh... you and your hobby horses! ;-) (M. Bear)
#144: Re: BINGO! (Kim from sidetr)
#145: Re: Thanks for asking! (long) (Katie)
#146: Re: Thanks for asking! (long) (Cerelle)
#147: Re: family life (Liz)
#148: Set the tone! (long) (Sandra in Chamb)
#150: Wonderful post! (Cerelle)
#151: You're not the first.... (Katie)
#152: Re: Set the tone! (long) (Annette)
#153: Re: trying my question again... (Eugenia W. Davi)
#154: A mom with very young children (in a support group (Cerelle)
#155: Re: Set the tone! (long) (dmx)
#157: Re: A mom with very young children (in a support g (Amy A.)
#158: support group in SE Ohio (Jane Smith)
#159: Thanks, Amy! (Katie)
#160: Re: It is the "acorn form the tree" thing... (annie)
#162: Re: HMMM do you think (Terry)
#163: Re: HMMM do you think (Stephanie)
#164: Re: HMMM do you think (Susan)
#165: Wonderful, warm welcome from our support group! (Suz)
#166: Honor and manners... (JodyC)
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#123) I gotta make my continuum speech (again!)
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 12:27 p.m.
Reply To: (#121) Ignorant Parents
Author: Suz
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 8:06 a.m.
I like to think of this stuff in terms of a continuum, because (1) it helps me
NOT think about it in those old us/them dichotomies, and because (2) it
encourages me to remember that I'm still growing and learning and changing.
If we were to place all the parenting behaviors and attitudes we currently
have in our culture on a kind of behavioral number line (weird concept, I
know), I think what we'd see would be some large clumps -- representing the
contemporary, mainstream experience -- and then a few smaller clumps spread
along the length of that line (or continuum). Some of those clumps would
represent the variey of experiences possible in the homeschooling movement.
(And then there are lots of little blips where the REAL mavericks do business,
ha ha!)
My point, I guess, is that I have been all over that line at various times in
my life. And I believe that's true for most of us. We slide along in direction
of the goals we aspire to. I can't imagine anyone really staying put for a
lifetime. I guess it's possible to be pretty satisfied with where you are if
you never get around to self-evaluation or investigating other possibilities,
or maybe if you're just BORN PERFECT! But I always feel pulled to move in one
direction or another, to shift my position on the continuum, if ever so
slightly.
But Suz, your post reminded me that there's another reason people stay in
spot, and that's if they happen to be in the middle of one of those big
clumps. From that perspective, I'd imagine it's easy to lose sight of how far
the range of possibilities actually extends in either direction.
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#124) Yep...
AUTHOR: Kimmer
DATE: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 12:48 p.m.
Reply To: (#122) BINGO!
Author: Giovanna
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 9:28 a.m.
Hi, Giovanna!
: How many times have you heard a mother of a
: young child say, "Tommy is just way to
: attached to me so we are putting him in
: daycare."
I never heard this one, but I once heard a woman say she thought any child who
wasn't left with daycare or a babysitter on a regular basis would grow up to
be very abnormal.
This grated way back when and it still grates now.
: No wonder our children are
: acting the way they are. They are being
: rejected, it seems, since they are six weeks
: old!!!
Another part of this is we as a society no longer know how to truly love
others--only ourselves. This extends to the relatives we slap in the nursing
home unnecessarily (seen that done) right down to the child we bring into the
world.
Each generation has forgotten the others...there is no passing of the torch,
no imparting of a vision. America lets our government, our religious systems
and our television do that for us. The elders are carting about the country
with bumper stickers about spending their children's inheritance, or else so
poor themselves they have to struggle day to day; the parents are too busy
surrounding themselves with more toys and more false security, or else they're
just struggling to make ends meet while half their paycheck goes to support
those RV-carting elders; the youth grow up angry at the falseness and
stupidity, but with no idea how to escape except through rebellion and acting
out.
So, exclusion is not just a HS thing. It's generational, societal, religious
and political. It's everywhere. But, it's nice to think that perhaps we can
change it one child, one family, one neighborhood at a time through our mutual
vision to home educate, no matter how or why we do it.
And now that I've foamed plenty...I'll go rinse off my soapbox! :-D
Kimmer :-)
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#125) Re: BINGO!
AUTHOR: Debbie G.
DATE: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 2:11 p.m.
Reply To: (#122) BINGO!
Author: Giovanna
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 9:28 a.m.
: How many times have you heard a mother of a
: young child say, "Tommy is just way to
: attached to me so we are putting him in
: daycare."
My husband and I have long felt that we are swimming upstream in society. We
do have supporters inside and outside our family, but we are buffeted about
often by the rest. A well meaning friend once told my husband that if my 2yo
was having trouble separating from me for activities that we should put him in
daycare to get him used to it. Members of our family politely ask when is Deb
going back to work. And at every mention of our school they change the subject
-- I mean we aren't really going to persist with this hs nonsense are we?
Luckily my husband and I are able to laugh these things off and keep marching
our own way.
Other than these comments, my pet peeve has always been any parent who never
discplines their child, but lets others do it. For example at a church meeting
a youngster might be interrupting and casuing a problem and the mother never
even turns her head to address her child, and another grown up will handle the
situation. This is just an example, but I have seen this scenario played out
everywhere I go. It is a if they are so used to someone else caring for their
children, they feel no urge to do it themselves.
Okay -- sorry for ranting -- but this has been a great discussion this month.
DEB
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#126) Re: BINGO!
AUTHOR: Susan
DATE: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 10:36 p.m.
Reply To: (#125) Re: BINGO!
Author: Debbie G.
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 2:11 p.m.
I have a related peeve--parents who won't discipline their children, even in
situations of violence or aggressive behavior, but then get mad at a parent
who steps in to the situation.
This is what I have seen time and time again--and these same parents, after
their child has bloodied another child's nose (or whatever), wind up with the
little bully in Mama's lap, getting hugs and kisses, and reassurances that
it's okay to get in trouble, and finally trotting off for ice cream and
cookies, i.e., total reward for violent aggression. Am I alone in having seen
WAY too much of this scene?
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#127) Re: Yep...
AUTHOR: Susan
DATE: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 10:47 p.m.
Reply To: (#124) Yep...
Author: Kimmer
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 12:48 p.m.
: Each generation has forgotten the
: others...there is no passing of the torch,
: no imparting of a vision.
This is exactly the sort of thing I was trying to get at a while back in
ranting about rites of passage...
America lets our
: government, our religious systems and our
: television do that for us.
And none of these institutions are doing anywhere near a good enough job (IMHO
with apologies to those who feel otherwise)--ALL the major institutions I was
raised to believe in and count on have let me down repeatedly, and I'm sure
this is happening more and more to young people. No wonder the alienation and
anger.
The elders are
: carting about the country with bumper
: stickers about spending their children's
: inheritance,
Talk about deadbeat parents--how about deadbeat grandparents? But then, it is
hard to be a good grandparent, I suppose, from a distance--which is how far
away most kids are from their parents' parents. (Roots withering)
or else so poor themselves they
: have to struggle day to day;
shameful in such a wealthy nation as ours, to see so many old folks and women
and children in poverty while millionaires become billionaires (IMHO)
the parents are
: too busy surrounding themselves with more
: toys and more false security,
I wonder if these folks ever slow down and look at themselves and their world,
and say, whoa, is this how I want to live? Is this how I want to model for my
children? The ones I know seem pretty proud of what they're doing...and
scornful of our way...even friends and relatives.
the youth grow up
: angry at the falseness and stupidity, but
: with no idea how to escape except through
: rebellion and acting out.
I don't think this was such a strong or widespread phenomenon before the
advent of broadcast media and compulsory education. Anyone here read Marshall
McLuhan? (The medium is the message?)
: So, exclusion is not just a HS thing. It's
: generational, societal, religious and
: political.
Perhaps this is part of human nature we can never entirely escape? I hope not.
It's everywhere. But, it's nice
: to think that perhaps we can change it one
: child, one family, one neighborhood at a
: time through our mutual vision to home
: educate, no matter how or why we do it.
I like the optimism of this vision. Thank you.
Susan
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#128) Re: family life
AUTHOR: Susan
DATE: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 10:53 p.m.
Reply To: (#67) family life
Author: Nedra
Date: Saturday, 5 February 2000, at 9:03 a.m.
Does he say how to withstand, or shelter our children from the sad effects of,
the overwhelming influences in daily life to the contrary?
My 7yob was crying about this the other day and my heart was breaking. I feel
confident that we are doing the best thing for our kids, but we don't live in
a vacuum, and I find it increasingly difficult to withstand the judgment of
those who know absolutely nothing about what we are doing.
When my kids are just with me and their Dad, without peer influences (ours or
theirs), they are SO happy. Once they start hearing what other kids and
parents do or say or think about our life (and usually the boys tend to hear
only the negatives), everything goes south really fast. Anyone want to buy
some acres and move to the middle of nowhere to homeschool?
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#129) Re: Yep...
AUTHOR: Liz
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 8:52 a.m.
Reply To: (#124) Yep...
Author: Kimmer
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 12:48 p.m.
Yep, yep. I've been there. When my twins were very young I was told that they
needed to be separated from one another and sent to day care on different days
of the week. The "experts" went on to tell me that they needed to form their
own separate identity . . . they were male and female and (looking back) she
was very much a little girl while he loved to climb trees and do the things we
normally associate with little boys. Oh how I wish I had known then what I
know now! When they were older we had one year when my poor little children
attended a total of five schools (thanks to Uncle Sam). At the last school she
did not want to be separated from her brother. The school "experts" told me
that she must have a psychological problem and needed a counselor. Well, I
waged war, and my twins had the same teacher that year. Imagine how that might
have effected her. I wish that I had had the closeness with the first family
that I now have through home schooling. We have friends who are planning new
families and a part of those plans are considerations about whom the caretake
will be. It blows my mind. They long for these children and then search for a
caretaker. I watch dd grow. She is getting so big now and it saddens me. Yes,
she is growing into a beautiful, confident young lady, but her days here at
our home are numbered and, while I want her to have her own lfe someday, I
will truly miss this little one. What a wonderful experience I have been
allowed to be a part of. Liz in SC
: I never heard this one, but I once heard a
: woman say she thought any child who wasn't
: left with daycare or a babysitter on a
: regular basis would grow up to be very
: abnormal.
: This grated way back when and it still grates
: now.
: Another part of this is we as a society no
: longer know how to truly love others--only
: ourselves. This extends to the relatives we
: slap in the nursing home unnecessarily (seen
: that done) right down to the child we bring
: into the world.
: Each generation has forgotten the
: others...there is no passing of the torch,
: no imparting of a vision. America lets our
: government, our religious systems and our
: television do that for us. The elders are
: carting about the country with bumper
: stickers about spending their children's
: inheritance, or else so poor themselves they
: have to struggle day to day; the parents are
: too busy surrounding themselves with more
: toys and more false security, or else
: they're just struggling to make ends meet
: while half their paycheck goes to support
: those RV-carting elders; the youth grow up
: angry at the falseness and stupidity, but
: with no idea how to escape except through
: rebellion and acting out.
: So, exclusion is not just a HS thing. It's
: generational, societal, religious and
: political. It's everywhere. But, it's nice
: to think that perhaps we can change it one
: child, one family, one neighborhood at a
: time through our mutual vision to home
: educate, no matter how or why we do it.
: And now that I've foamed plenty...I'll go rinse
: off my soapbox! :-D
: Kimmer :-)
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#130) Well, it's probably true!
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 9:27 a.m.
Reply To: (#124) Yep...
Author: Kimmer
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 12:48 p.m.
: . . . I once heard a
: woman say she thought any child who wasn't
: left with daycare or a babysitter on a
: regular basis would grow up to be very
: abnormal.
Abnormal? Yeah, there's a good possibility that kids with strong, loving bonds
with their parents and siblings (lasting through the teen years and beyond)
ARE a rarity in our culture. It makes my heart cry, but there it is. Physical
and emotional separation and, as a result, alienation are pretty normal these
days.
Still, I think it's important to remember that togetherness isn't THE answer,
all by itself. Having my children with me is a condition which (I believe)
gives me a better opportunity to be a good parent. It doesn't guarantee I will
be one, however, since it's quite possible to be a lousy parent 24 hours a
day.
Gee, I don't want to stop on that depressing note! LOL!
OK, how's this? The "advice from experts" childrearing books written during
the first part of the 20th century warned against lavishing physical affection
on infants and toddlers. No kissing, no cuddling! Mother-love was viewed as
smothering, harmful, and probably perverse. Sheesh! I think we've come a long
way! Maybe we're told it's OK to "teach independence through separation" (a
cockeyed theory if I ever heard one!), but at least we're allowed to hug and
kiss 'em!
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#131) Re: BINGO!
AUTHOR: Susan
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 9:42 a.m.
Reply To: (#126) Re: BINGO!
Author: Susan
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 10:36 p.m.
: I have a related peeve--parents who won't
: discipline their children, even in
: situations of violence or aggressive
: behavior, but then get mad at a parent who
: steps in to the situation.
: This is what I have seen time and time
: again--and these same parents, after their
: child has bloodied another child's nose (or
: whatever), wind up with the little bully in
: Mama's lap, getting hugs and kisses, and
: reassurances that it's okay to get in
: trouble, and finally trotting off for ice
: cream and cookies, i.e., total reward for
: violent aggression. Am I alone in having
: seen WAY too much of this scene?
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#132) Re: BINGO!
AUTHOR: dawne
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 10:43 a.m.
Reply To: (#122) BINGO!
Author: Giovanna
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 9:28 a.m.
[snip]parents who claim they had no idea their children were being bullied at
school? Parents who have no clue that their child IS the bully?
While I agree with your overall point I must say that the above is a grey area
for me. I noticed changes in my own dear son in 1st grade. He is the type to
suffer in silence. I was there to greet him when the bus dropped him off and
we did lots together. I didn't understand much of his behavior - bursting
emotionally over the smallest things. The personality change didn't go
un-noticed by us - we simply didn't know the WHY or the WHAT. Ben was shut up
tighter than a clam! When things got bad for him [HORRIBLE by my standards] he
just snapped and it all poured out. THEN I understood several of the past
months in hindsight. The school really couldn't help me. They said "change his
diet" or "give him more sleep". My goodness he sleeps from 8 pm to 7am. His
diet is just fine, not perfect but darn good in comparision to the average
American diet. WHEN we realized what was going on the school said "boys will
be boys" and pretty much left it at that. Naturally we are now some of the
most committed homeschoolers we know :0)
: How can they have "NO IDEA"? It's
: unreal but when you look at in through this
: context then you see why. This culture
: "trains" parents not to bond with
: their children.
It is very hard to bond with our kids when we see them for maybe 3 waking
hours a day. Assuming you work till 5 and are home at 5:30. Those hours, I
might point out, are spent in homework, dinner, clean-up and bathtime.
Weekends get caught up in errands and sports so quality time must often be
SCHEDULED in or be forgotten. I've said it to my dh a thousand times
"homeschooling has FREED us from the rat race"!
: How many times have you heard a mother of a
: young child say, "Tommy is just way to
: attached to me so we are putting him in
: daycare." SEE? As if there was something wrong with being attached! We push
our children out of our lives little by little and yes.... in my opinion we
are now seeing the results of this type of thinking.
My question is WHY did that mom think that? Someone/something influenced that
line of thinking. A woman I am having trouble staying friends with often
complains when the kids have a snow day or an admin. day off. I can't see why
she doesn't rejoice to have them and not have to share them that day!! But her
children aren't the most fun to be around either so maybe peace has become
more valuable than a close family. A close family takes work. We are born into
a family. We don't get to choose. We are all different and if some of us met
under different circumstances we may not even be friends! A family takes work,
mostly when they are youngest but I don't think we can ever let up.
: Plus also I think the job of being a stay at
: home mom is horribly undervalued. I have
: friends whose families look down on them and
: even express their disaproval at them
: staying at home. They feel they should be
: out earning a living! You've got to wonder
: about that!! No wonder our children are
: acting the way they are. They are being
: rejected, it seems, since they are six weeks
: old!!!
I couldn't agree with you more on this. In fact when someone asks me what I
"do" I tell them. "oh I used to interpret for money. Now I give my time freely
to be a mom. I just realize NO ONE, save Donald Trump, could afford me so I
content myself with the rewards my children offer ;)"
Let's not forget that we look up to professional athletes, say a major league
ball player. The nature of baseball is such that you are away from your family
more than you are together. No one finds it odd while they watch the 4th AWAY
game in a row. They are cheering for their fav. batter or pitcher. The
thoughts of those kids couldn't be farther from their minds. How many runs
scored, tickets sold - that is important enough to be thought about. Dawne
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#133) Re: BINGO!
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 11:18 a.m.
Reply To: (#132) Re: BINGO!
Author: dawne
Date: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 10:43 a.m.
: A
: close family takes work. We are born into a
: family.
YES IT DOES!!!!! It takes a tremendous amount of work. I do not think that 99%
of the population know what it takes until they are in it. I know I didn't!
(but my mom gave me many warnings!--grin)
You know, as a young mom I used to cling to all kinds of parenting magazines
that would tell you how to "have it all". I remember an issue where they gave
step by step instructions on how to drop off your child at daycare the
"correct way" so that your child wouldn't cry. I'm not kidding you! Back then
I really just didn't know. I thought surely the "experts" were right. The
magazines, in my opinion, didn't encourage moms to stay home. They were
basically a guide on how to "survive parenthood" until the kids got old enough
to care for themselves. I bought it all and believe it!
So what did it take for me to think differently? Other's lifestyle examples.
And now that I think about it, I don't think my mind and heart were open
enough to understand why the lifestyle I have now is much more peaceful and
productive than the rat race I was in until the right time came! :-( Kind of
scary I think. What if the "revelation" of it all had not hit me? I see so
many people just going through the motions of life--doing what the media tells
them is right. They don't ask themselves WHY. But I know for a while there I
was in the same boat.
Giovanna
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#134) Speaking of exclusion...
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 11:27 a.m.
Reply To: (#122) BINGO!
Author: Giovanna
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 9:28 a.m.
What we're commenting on here is the continuation of longstanding societal
attitudes that encourage parents to EXCLUDE children from their lives.
What we usually hear is a lot of lip-service about much we value children in
our modern Western culture. It's true that most adult couples want to bear
children -- that is, they want to be parents. But the physical presence of
those children is commonly viewed as an impediment to adult society. This is
hardly a NEW attitude. My own great-grandfather (born 160 years ago in
Arkansas) was a big proponent of that nasty old maxim, "Children should be
seen and not heard."
I do chafe a little bit when I hear folks say that the devaluation of children
is some horrible new trend invented by this or that policial party (for
instance) or a sure sign that we're all headed for you-know-where in a
handbasket. Children, let's face it, have been undervalued, mistreated,
disenfranchised, enslaved, abandoned, and ignored throughout the millennia.
Why? Well, they're relatively powerless. If you want to feel a little bit
better about the way we raise our kids in 2000, read about childhood in 1200
or 1600 or 1800! Yipes! We have IMPROVED, no doubt about it.
But we still have a long way to go, IMO. My belief is that we value chidlren
when we welcome them into our lives and let them know (by our actions and
words) that we enjoy their company on a daily basis, in all kinds of
situations.
The big parental challenge (and someone else touched on this in another recent
post) is to "teach your children well," so that their company truly is
enjoyable.
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#135) Re: Speaking of exclusion...
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 11:39 a.m.
Reply To: (#134) Speaking of exclusion...
Author: Cerelle
Date: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 11:27 a.m.
: I do chafe a little bit when I hear folks say
: that the devaluation of children is some
: horrible new trend invented by this or that
: policial party (for instance) or a sure sign
: that we're all headed for you-know-where in
: a handbasket. Children, let's face it, have
: been undervalued, mistreated,
: disenfranchised, enslaved, abandoned, and
: ignored throughout the millennia. Why? Well,
: they're relatively powerless. If you want to
: feel a little bit better about the way we
: raise our kids in 2000, read about childhood
: in 1200 or 1600 or 1800! Yipes! We have
: IMPROVED, no doubt about it.
OOOOH GREAT POINT! Yes, you are right!
(and you tied all of this into our topic so well, Cerelle! Way to go! LOL!
Great of you to keep us on topic!) :-D
: But we still have a long way to go, IMO. My
: belief is that we value chidlren when we
: welcome them into our lives and let them
: know (by our actions and words) that we
: enjoy their company on a daily basis, in all
: kinds of situations.
Now here's a questions for you. In your opinion, how does social change come
about?
The "yuppie-indulgement" movement in the 80's for example, in my opinion, came
about due to the economy. But not that I'm an expert on this stuff. There are
other factors, I'm sure.
How does mindset and social change come about? Personally, I believe we ARE
making a difference even though sometimes we don't think we are. I think our
lifestyle examples do make an impact. I know, right now, this discussion might
be read by someone and it might make a difference for them. Care to expand on
that a little?
Giovanna
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#136) Re: Healthy support group
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 11:44 a.m.
Reply To: (#115) Healthy support group
Author: Peggy
Date: Wednesday, 9 February 2000, at 4:43 p.m.
Peggy, you've made some really good points here. Another argument for
inclusive groups is that adults can and do learn valuable skills from one
another. Keeping support groups open to all is a way to spread around the
education.
One thing a healthy support groups needs is a fair distribution of work and
responsibility. Otherwise, the workers (a.k.a. leaders) burn out and lose
heart. I've heard of some homeschooling support groups that REQUIRE every new
member to volunteer for something. I don't know -- that seems kind of
excessive to me. I don't think I'd want my own group to go that way, but the
principle is sound -- all the members do need to be encouraged to contribute,
so that they'll feel ownership of the group AND so that the leaders aren't in
a constant state of overwhelm.
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#137) Re: Speaking of exclusion...
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 12:07 p.m.
Reply To: (#135) Re: Speaking of exclusion...
Author: Giovanna
Date: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 11:39 a.m.
: Now here's a questions for you. In your
: opinion, how does social change come about?
Giovanna, you have obviously not been reading my posts! LOL! (Honestly, it's a
good thing I don't get my feelings hurt easily. JUST KIDDING!)
Here's what I said in reply to Michelle a couple of days ago...
"Philosophically, I have always believed that the best way to bring about
social change is to do what you believe is right and do it well. Then, if you
manage to make a good job of it, others are likely to want to follow your
example. Back in my hippie days, this was commonly known as "not pushing your
trip." Still works for me! :) "
Really, I do believe that. Social change, IMO, always happens from the ground
up. Yes, it can be influenced by many factors, including the overall
prosperity of a culture (or lack thereof), but the bottom line is that social
change is just people behaving differently. At first, only a few will behave
differently, but if those people enjoy success and seem content, their
behavior will spread to others.
: The "yuppie-indulgement" movement in
: the 80's for example, in my opinion, came
: about due to the economy. But not that I'm
: an expert on this stuff. There are other
: factors, I'm sure.
It's so interesting you brought this up. I recently read a book called A
Distant Mirror (by historian Barbara Tuchman), and I was fascinated to read
about the "yuppie mentality" of Europeans in the 14th century. Wow. Good
reading, if you're up for that kind thing.
: How does mindset and social change come about?
: Personally, I believe we ARE making a
: difference even though sometimes we don't
: think we are. I think our lifestyle examples
: do make an impact. I know, right now, this
: discussion might be read by someone and it
: might make a difference for them. Care to
: expand on that a little?
Well, we've seen all kinds of examples of social change, just in our own
generation. The homeschooling movement is a great place to start! Twenty-five
years ago, only a handful of families across the country were teaching their
children at home. They were considered VERY STRANGE by most American citizens.
Ten years ago, most people knew of someone in their family or community who
was homeschooling. Today, it's commonplace. Homeschoolers are still in a tiny
minority, of course, but we have definitely changed the way America thinks
about education. Joe P. Average no longer thinks of the classroom as the only
viable learning venue. Do you realize what a remarkable achievement this is?
And it all came about by example...by a few mavericks doing something "crazy"
because they thought it was the best thing to do, and then by other people
being encouraged to try it for themselves. And so on...and so on...just like
the old shampoo ad.
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#138) Re: Speaking of exclusion...
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 12:41 p.m.
Reply To: (#137) Re: Speaking of exclusion...
Author: Cerelle
Date: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 12:07 p.m.
HEY! OF COURSE I READ YOUR POSTS!!!! I read ALL of them :-) And I do remember
reading this but I guess I just had brain lapse! LOL! Must have been hitting
that deer on the road. :-(
You wrote:
:
: "Philosophically, I have always believed
: that the best way to bring about social
: change is to do what you believe is right
: and do it well. Then, if you manage to make
: a good job of it, others are likely to want
: to follow your example.
YES! And I believe this homeschooling movement will not just affect our
children but also society as a whole!
: It's so interesting you brought this up. I
: recently read a book called A Distant Mirror
: (by historian Barbara Tuchman), and I was
: fascinated to read about the "yuppie
: mentality" of Europeans in the 14th
: century. Wow.
In the 14th century? WOW! Nothing is new under the sun!
:. Joe
: P. Average no longer thinks of the classroom
: as the only viable learning venue. Do you
: realize what a remarkable achievement this
: is? And it all came about by example...by a
: few mavericks doing something
: "crazy" because they thought it
: was the best thing to do, and then by other
: people being encouraged to try it for
: themselves.
It reminds me of the Pilgrims and how their crazy adventure was actually the
beginning of a form of government that would later serve as a model for other
countries. Gives me goosebumps! You know though... I must admit... I have
always liked being "different" and sort of a "maverick", don't you? It's just
exciting! :-)
Giovanna
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#139) Something else I just thought of--
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 1:34 p.m.
Reply To: (#135) Re: Speaking of exclusion...
Author: Giovanna
Date: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 11:39 a.m.
About social change and homeschooling...
If you get right down to it, the homeschooling movement can be seen as one
manifestation of the general anti-authority, anti-establishment social
movement of the 2nd half of the 20th century.
Originally (and still today, to a large extent), homeschooling parents were
the kind of people who didn't mind bucking recent tradition and authority.
They didn't care what society or the government or the school authorities said
they "had" to do. The fact that this kind of behavior caught on and has become
fairly widespread indicates that social pressure and authority have lost the
ability they once had to control what everyone does (at least in the field of
education). It indicates, perhaps, that a growing number of individuals today
are feeling empowered to make their own decisions, based on what they believe
is best for them.
But other pressures have contributed to the growth of the homeschooling
movement, too. Dissatisfaction with the public and private school experience
has been growing, just as homeschoolers have been demonstrating that children
don't have to be in a classroom to learn.
So social change is a phenomenon based on a variety of factors, I guess, which
can include pressures from without as well as encouraging examples from
within.
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#140) Re: How to make inclusive group work
AUTHOR: Annette
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 6:39 p.m.
Reply To: (#91) How to make inclusive group work
Author: Katie in VA
Date: Monday, 7 February 2000, at 8:56 a.m.
Katie, How did it go yesterday?! I can't wait to hear. Annette
Okay, everyone, the first meeting of an
: inclusive group I am starting is on
: Thursday. I am very excited to have the
: opportunity to create a social experience
: for my son and I! I don't want to offend
: anyone, but I want true tolerance and
: respect in the group, and a willingness to
: welcome newcomers despite the change in
: group dynamics that will inevitably occur
: each time a new family joins the group. I
: don't want the us and them mentality.
: Because I am forming the group, I feel I do
: have some right to define the group. What
: would be a good opening? Should I write the
: group statement of purpose before the first
: meeting? Because I have 9 families already
: signed up to come, I'm concerned that trying
: to give everyone input will lead down a
: difficult path. Making decisions by
: committee can be a pain! And if it starts
: out too democratic, it may quickly become a
: group that doesn't suit my particular needs!
: Finally, anyone have an idea of a good
: "ice breaker"? I want to start
: with something that might bring a few
: laughs. I was considering a game to remember
: everyone's names, like, "I'm going to
: Timbuktu and I'm bringing Carol...I'm going
: to Timbuktu and I'm bringing Carol,
: Martha...and so on. Any ideas????? Sorry to
: be so chatty......TIA !!!! Katie
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#141) Thanks for asking! (long)
AUTHOR: Katie
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 7:19 p.m.
Reply To: (#140) Re: How to make inclusive group work
Author: Annette
Date: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 6:39 p.m.
Thanks for asking! This is such a growth oppotunity for me! The meeting was
very interesting. I met two women I really liked a lot (who volunteered to
help!) and several I would like to get to know better, and a couple of women
who seemed like they might be difficult for me to get along with. It was
interesting observing how each person behaved, especially in the context of
what everyone has talked about on this board! I found myself thinking an
inclusive group might be difficult to maintain, in the sense that some of the
women were, well, a bit self absorbed and easily miffed (is that a word? seems
to fit here.) So now I fully understand I'm creating something I can't
control! I felt awkward proposing that we come up with some group rules. No
one responded with, "good idea!" or with any suggestions. They just started
talking among themselves and ignored me! And we didn't monitor their kid's
behavior very well, no one seemed to feel the need...but..... One mom let her
2yo ransack the snack table, lick all the cups, etc. and I spent money on that
stuff!!!! Then again, my son was rolling across the floor at one point and
almost smooshed a baby! It was a bit chaotic. I didn't know if I should try to
take control and set limits or not! I went in organized and it seemed like
some of the women weren't quite ready for that. And I didn't want to come
across as bossy or too self important. The highpoint for me was my 6yo son
giving a presentation on math. It was so cute. He is normally very shy, but he
felt some "ownership" of the group, greeted everyone, and did a great job.
Thanks for letting me vent. We already have playdates scheduled, field trips
planned, and each family has agreed to lead a monthly meeting. So, really, it
went great. I think it's interesting how I wound up feeling about the group
dynamics, etc. Any thoughts?
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#142) Re: Thanks for asking! (long)
AUTHOR: Annette
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 7:34 p.m.
Reply To: (#141) Thanks for asking! (long)
Author: Katie
Date: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 7:19 p.m.
Katie, sounds interesting. IMO an inlusive group can work. This next statement
may sound contradictory to that goal but oh well. :o) if seemone comes and
doesn't like the way the group is run or the style or whatever...they are free
to stay and particiapte in what they like but NOT cause dissension by nit
picking to everyone else in the group...or they can choose to not come
anymore. Every group won't meet everyones ideals. Meeting each month in a
different house sounds perfect for now. That way each hostess can set her own
boundaries as far as what is acceptable in her home....ie. 2yo licking cups.
LOL That way you aren't always the heavy. When each mom hosts the meeting does
that mean she gets to kind of open the meeting and be in charge or is it
purely her sharing her home? I think setting some basic rules of civility
would be ok...like no 2yo's licking cups....sorry to keep going back to that
but it just cracks me up. I think because it reminds me of last night at my
hosue....*wild*...but its totally off topic so I won't go there. It involved
some wayward hamsters though. LOL Anyway, back to your meeting...it sounds
like it went really well. you came away with some future meeting times, future
meeting places, field trips, classes, you accomplished a lot! How often are
you all planning on meeting...is it once a month?
I am happy for you! (HUG) Annette
Thanks for asking! This is such a growth
: oppotunity for me! The meeting was very
: interesting. I met two women I really liked
: a lot (who volunteered to help!) and several
: I would like to get to know better, and a
: couple of women who seemed like they might
: be difficult for me to get along with. It
: was interesting observing how each person
: behaved, especially in the context of what
: everyone has talked about on this board! I
: found myself thinking an inclusive group
: might be difficult to maintain, in the sense
: that some of the women were, well, a bit
: self absorbed and easily miffed (is that a
: word? seems to fit here.) So now I fully
: understand I'm creating something I can't
: control! I felt awkward proposing that we
: come up with some group rules. No one
: responded with, "good idea!" or
: with any suggestions. They just started
: talking among themselves and ignored me! And
: we didn't monitor their kid's behavior very
: well, no one seemed to feel the
: need...but..... One mom let her 2yo ransack
: the snack table, lick all the cups, etc. and
: I spent money on that stuff!!!! Then again,
: my son was rolling across the floor at one
: point and almost smooshed a baby! It was a
: bit chaotic. I didn't know if I should try
: to take control and set limits or not! I
: went in organized and it seemed like some of
: the women weren't quite ready for that. And
: I didn't want to come across as bossy or too
: self important. The highpoint for me was my
: 6yo son giving a presentation on math. It
: was so cute. He is normally very shy, but he
: felt some "ownership" of the
: group, greeted everyone, and did a great
: job. Thanks for letting me vent. We already
: have playdates scheduled, field trips
: planned, and each family has agreed to lead
: a monthly meeting. So, really, it went
: great. I think it's interesting how I wound
: up feeling about the group dynamics, etc.
: Any thoughts?
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#143) Oh... you and your hobby horses! ;-)
AUTHOR: M. Bear
DATE: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 8:19 a.m.
Reply To: (#123) I gotta make my continuum speech (again!)
Author: Cerelle
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 12:27 p.m.
Cerelle,
Thanks for trotting out that one "again", I missed it the first time around.
: I like to think of this stuff in terms of a
: continuum, because (1) it helps me NOT think
: about it in those old us/them dichotomies,
: and because (2) it encourages me to remember
: that I'm still growing and learning and
: changing.
A great perspective! Thanks for the reminder.
: But Suz, your post reminded me that there's
: another reason people stay in spot, and
: that's if they happen to be in the middle of
: one of those big clumps. From that
: perspective, I'd imagine it's easy to lose
: sight of how far the range of possibilities
: actually extends in either direction.
And don't forget, even if/when someone catches a glimpse of the distant vistas
of possiblility, pushing through and OUT of that clump isn't an easy task.
(I'll 'see' your behavioral number line, and 'raise' you one law of inertia?
*G*)
Really stretching to close with an 'on topic' note, but haven't had my coffee
yet. Hmmm, how 'bout... If you're ever feeling 'excluded' from a group, try
looking on the bright side: No one's standing between you and the vistas of
possibility.
Great topic, y'all. Thanks! MB
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#144) Re: BINGO!
AUTHOR: Kim from sidetr
DATE: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 9:24 a.m.
Reply To: (#122) BINGO!
Author: Giovanna
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 9:28 a.m.
:This culture
: "trains" parents not to bond with
: their children.
MY OWN MOTHER is doing that (and it makes me sick !) I have a sister who is
almost five and HAD to go to preschool this year to get her OUT of her
"comfort zone"... so she could SOCIALIZE with kids her own age .... :-|
(squinty eyes ... )
and I'm telling you ! I nearly suffered from a tongue hemorage (sp !) from
biting on it !!
=8-X
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#145) Re: Thanks for asking! (long)
AUTHOR: Katie
DATE: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 11:34 a.m.
Reply To: (#142) Re: Thanks for asking! (long)
Author: Annette
Date: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 7:34 p.m.
Hi Annette! Actually, we had the meeting at the local library and will
continue to do that. I will serve as communicator/coordinator for scheduling
meetings and making announcements. And in the beginning, I feel it should be
my role to encourage the group to come up with some basic rules for the group.
Nothing too strict, but some structure so that we stay on course. Wayward
hamsters???? Now you're making me laugh :o) Because I started the group to
meet friends and have a social life for me and my son, we plan to do lots of
stuff. A monthly meeting with the host family (at the library), weekly play
dates at a park, monthly field trips, shared learning as ideas occur to us,
monthly mom's night out, a mom's book group (not homeschooling related!), and
private play dates, too. One of the mother's I really clicked with invited
Barrett and I over next week for a visit!!! There will be so many great
opportunities with this group. And I like what you said about being assertive
with members who are causing divisivness (did I spell that right?). I think I
can handle gently confronting people who threaten to spoil the fun for the
whole group. But in the moment, when a person is being obnoxious, sometimes I
am too nervous to say anything....then I regret it later. This is going to be
a great growth opportunity for me! And maybe knowing that I am trying to model
healthy behavior for my son will give me the courage to be kind, but
assertive!! My dh won't let us get hampsters, an ant farm, or anything like
that! It took me 10 years to convince him we should have a cat.....luckily, a
little grey mouse in the living room helped my cause!! Well, have a great
weekend!! I'll keep you posted on my group experiences! Katie
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#146) Re: Thanks for asking! (long)
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 12:52 p.m.
Reply To: (#145) Re: Thanks for asking! (long)
Author: Katie
Date: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 11:34 a.m.
: This is going to be a great growth
: opportunity for me! And maybe knowing that I
: am trying to model healthy behavior for my
: son will give me the courage to be kind, but
: assertive!!
Kind, but assertive -- now THAT'S a worthy goal! And a tough one, too, if my
own experience is any guide. You know what would be really interesting? What
if you kept a journal, or some kind of written record, of the social
challenges involved in this new project of yours? Might make a great article
for a homeschooling magazine, or possibly even a book!
The toddler licking all the cups was hilarious! (For me -- I wasn't there, and
they weren't my cups.) I think we've all been in situations like that one.
Years ago, an acquaintance of mine looked blithely on while her toddler
smeared peanut butter and jelly all over my piano keys. EEK! If memory serves,
I quietly got a damp rag and cleaned up the piano AND the child's hands, and
said nothing about it to mother. Sometimes actions speak louder than words.
Then again, there are a few moms out there who never seem to notice anything
at all -- neither their children's (mis)behavior nor the Herculean efforts of
others to neutralize that behavior.
The other truth is that there's a wide range of behaviors that adults find
acceptable. Some people's angle of tolerance (believe it or not) might be wide
enough to accept cup-licking toddlers! Oh, ROTFL, I'm sorry, but that's an
image that just won't go away...
My advice about rules (if I may horn in for just a moment, here) is to try to
keep them broad and simple. Otherwise, you might wind up with a blizzard of
little nit-picky rules, with new situations continually arising that require
even MORE rules. Naturally, it's better for morale if a rule is stated
positively. For instance, "Remember other people's feelings," is better than
"Don't disregard other people's feelings."
Hey, and if you hit on the magic way to include "obnoxious people" while
keeping everyone else happy, DO let me know, OK? :)
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#147) Re: family life
AUTHOR: Liz
DATE: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 1:19 p.m.
Reply To: (#128) Re: family life
Author: Susan
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 10:53 p.m.
DD had been making, "I want to go back to school," sounds, and it has worried
me. If her desire became really strong, we would look into it. I have voiced
these sentiments before. Next school year she has been given the opportunity
to sit in on a Biology class for homeschooled students taught by an EX
(certified) high school Biology teacher. She is so excited, and I am so
releived that the push to go to school is off again. I think she will find the
class a mixed bag of experiences and am looking forward to her reaction. I do
hope it's positive and fills her need to be in a class room situation.
As for family, I know just what you mean and agree. I prefer families where
our soializing is a combintion of parents and children. It's nice to spend
time with people who love the company of their children. It shows on both the
children and their parents. Liz in SC: Does he say how to withstand, or
shelter our
: children from the sad effects of, the
: overwhelming influences in daily life to the
: contrary?
: My 7yob was crying about this the other day and
: my heart was breaking. I feel confident that
: we are doing the best thing for our kids,
: but we don't live in a vacuum, and I find it
: increasingly difficult to withstand the
: judgment of those who know absolutely
: nothing about what we are doing.
: When my kids are just with me and their Dad,
: without peer influences (ours or theirs),
: they are SO happy. Once they start hearing
: what other kids and parents do or say or
: think about our life (and usually the boys
: tend to hear only the negatives), everything
: goes south really fast. Anyone want to buy
: some acres and move to the middle of nowhere
: to homeschool?
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#148) Set the tone! (long)
AUTHOR: Sandra in Chamb
DATE: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 1:34 p.m.
Reply To: (#128) Re: family life
Author: Susan
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 10:53 p.m.
I find that much of the negativity (hostility!) towards homeschooling is
really defensive behavior. Try taking the lead by supporting others in their
non-homeschooling choices, i.e., casually agreeing that homeschooling is not
for everybody, and treating other families' choices with respect. I no longer
launch into an enthusiastic discussion of the joys of homeschooling. Rather, I
answer questions with, "We love it; it really suits our family," then move on
to other subjects. If the person is genuinely curious, he/she will ask more
questions, which I'm glad to answer briefly. When people seem hostile, I just
shrug and say, "Well, of COURSE you need to make decisions for each child
based on that PARTICULAR child's needs." I simply refuse to allow anyone to
"bait" me on this subject, which is nobody's business, anyway!
Oddly enough, some of the comments we get are so positive, I shrug them off,
as well. For instance, I'll respond with, "Of course he knows a lot about
that, because he's really interested in it. Being homeschooled, he can really
dig into a subject in ways that just wouldn't be possible in a classroom." And
it's true that an ORDINARY KID, given the interest and the encouragement,
would know just as much about that subject as my son!
As the years pass, we find that our confidence in what we're doing builds
other people's confidence in homeschooling's being perfectly normal. As for
your son's hurt feelings, I urge you to teach him to look at homeschooling as
just another choice about schooling. We make a point of socializing with
public schooled and private schooled kids, as well as homeschooled ones.
Treating everybody's choices with respect, not being either competitive or
defensive ourselves in any way, and never attacking other people's decisions,
all contribute to very comfortable mingling. I guess this is what this month's
topic is all about, isn't it?
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#150) Wonderful post!
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 4:22 p.m.
Reply To: (#148) Set the tone! (long)
Author: Sandra in Chamb
Date: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 1:34 p.m.
Wow, Sandra, you said it all so well! I loved it. And I especially loved this
last part, which pretty much puts the whole message in a nutshell (and in
excellent prose, too!):
: Treating
: everybody's choices with respect, not being
: either competitive or defensive ourselves in
: any way, and never attacking other people's
: decisions, all contribute to very
: comfortable mingling. I guess this is what
: this month's topic is all about, isn't it?
YES! Exactly!
Thank you for taking the time to say it.
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#151) You're not the first....
AUTHOR: Katie
DATE: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 4:37 p.m.
Reply To: (#146) Re: Thanks for asking! (long)
Author: Cerelle
Date: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 12:52 p.m.
Well, Cerelle, you're not the first person who has suggested that I keep a
journal about this. And, actually, I am a writer with a masters in social
work...so maybe I could put together an article or short book. Judging by the
response to this month's topic, I bet a thoughtful look at the social process
involved in becoming a homeschooler and being in an HS group would be quite
interesting. The only person from the first group meeting that still has me
thinking is a woman who has a 1yo, a 2-1/2yo and a baby on the way. While she
was insistent that group meeting times coincide with her schedule, I kept
wondering why she wanted to be in the group, given that her kids are so small.
Is it common to have moms with only young children in hsing groups? How can we
best meet her needs, while attending to what I consider to be the more
pressing needs of moms with school-age children? Am I off base? I'd appreciate
your thoughts on this. I enjoy reading your posts on this board. Thanks! Katie
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#152) Re: Set the tone! (long)
AUTHOR: Annette
DATE: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 9:02 p.m.
Reply To: (#148) Set the tone! (long)
Author: Sandra in Chamb
Date: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 1:34 p.m.
Wow what a wonderful post. Perfectly said.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#153) Re: trying my question again...
AUTHOR: Eugenia W. Davi
DATE: Sunday, 13 February 2000, at 9:24 a.m.
Reply To: (#109) trying my question again...
Author: Denise
Date: Tuesday, 8 February 2000, at 7:22 p.m.
I really believe that parents are the single greatest influence on a child's
behavior, whether or not the child is in school.
When our children were little (under 6) and I was reading all about
homeschooling, I drew the false conclusion that if we homeschooled our kids,
they would be polite, paragons of virtue (ha!). Also (although I didn't
realize it at the time), I bought into the idea that PS kids would compare
less favorably with my little angels, across the board.
Now, after three or four years of HSing, and with friends in PS, HS friends,
neighbor children, acquaintances made through Girl Scouts and Cub Scouts,
etc., I realize that when parents work hard to help their children learn good
manners and appropriate behavior, the results are evident. And when parents
aren't interested in making this effort, the results are also evident. Whether
or not a child is in school really doesn't seem to make or break their
manners, in my experience.
Some examples: Several PS girls in my daughter's Brownie troop are unfailingly
polite and respectful, both in person and on the phone. These are girls I'd be
happy to take anywhere, in large groups or individually.
AND, in our usually calm HS Geography Club, when an 11-yo boy punched a 4 yo
in the stomach and knocked him off the slide, the 11 yo didn't even bother to
tell me or his mother or the 4 yo's dad about it; he just left the little boy
crying under a tree. When the adults discovered what had happened, the mother
of the big boy said, "Oh, well, Bobby, I guess you got a little over excited,
didn't you?" Period. Needless to say, I'm not assuming that because Bobby is
homeschooled, he's got decent manners.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#154) A mom with very young children (in a support group
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Monday, 14 February 2000, at 9:47 a.m.
Reply To: (#151) You're not the first....
Author: Katie
Date: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 4:37 p.m.
: The only person from the first
: group meeting that still has me thinking is
: a woman who has a 1yo, a 2-1/2yo and a baby
: on the way. [snip]
: Is it common to have moms with only
: young children in hsing groups?
I don't know if it's common, exactly, but it's not unusual, either. Some
parents are so attracted by the idea of homeschooling, they just can't wait to
get started!
You're right, though -- a mother with children so young WILL have different
needs from the mom with older kids. She will likely have a slightly different
mindset, too, because it's easy to theorize about some of this stuff...but
until you've actually been there and done that -- with your own children, that
is -- the theories are only theories. I've seen many a strident unschooler
crumble (after years of impassioned rhetoric) and rush out to buy typical
curriculum materials, once their children got past preschool-age, LOL!
In support group I belong to, there are children of many different ages, and
the only way to meet everyone's needs is to encourage members to plan
activities that their own children will enjoy. I think this would hold true
even in a small group like yours. You can't be expected to plan activities
that will be age-appropriate for a 2-year-old, if your own children are a lot
older. What you CAN do is invite this mother to find things she'd like to do
with her 2-year-old. There may be other moms in the group, with younger
children, who would like to join in.
It may be that this mom is having trouble finding other mothers with an
interest in homeschooling, and she's hungry for like-minded companions. Having
2 children so close together and so young can be a very isolating thing,
anyway. She may not have many opportunities to get out and be with other
women. (I don't know -- just guessing.) I guess what I'm trying to say is that
her social skills may be a little rusty! :) If that's the case, your group
could be a lifesaver and a training ground.
How about the rest of you? Who has experience accommodating the needs of
someone with only very young children, in a support group situation?
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#155) Re: Set the tone! (long)
AUTHOR: dmx
DATE: Monday, 14 February 2000, at 3:37 p.m.
Reply To: (#148) Set the tone! (long)
Author: Sandra in Chamb
Date: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 1:34 p.m.
Agreed! About 5 years ago, I read an article in Home Education Magazine. The
writer advised parents who discussed homeschooling to start out assuming that
the other person/people had the best interests of the kids at heart. This
advice really changed the way I 'heard' what other people were saying. Often,
I discovered friends and relatives were just worried about my son. I myself
worry all the time about issues in homeschooling: how much structure, how much
effort to put into social issues, how much math, etc. Why is it so strange
that others would wonder about those issues, too!? Giving the other person the
benefit of the doubt made things so much easier when discussing homeschooling!
***************************************************************************
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#123) I gotta make my continuum speech (again!)
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 12:27 p.m.
Reply To: (#121) Ignorant Parents
Author: Suz
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 8:06 a.m.
I like to think of this stuff in terms of a continuum, because (1) it helps me
NOT think about it in those old us/them dichotomies, and because (2) it
encourages me to remember that I'm still growing and learning and changing.
If we were to place all the parenting behaviors and attitudes we currently
have in our culture on a kind of behavioral number line (weird concept, I
know), I think what we'd see would be some large clumps -- representing the
contemporary, mainstream experience -- and then a few smaller clumps spread
along the length of that line (or continuum). Some of those clumps would
represent the variey of experiences possible in the homeschooling movement.
(And then there are lots of little blips where the REAL mavericks do business,
ha ha!)
My point, I guess, is that I have been all over that line at various times in
my life. And I believe that's true for most of us. We slide along in direction
of the goals we aspire to. I can't imagine anyone really staying put for a
lifetime. I guess it's possible to be pretty satisfied with where you are if
you never get around to self-evaluation or investigating other possibilities,
or maybe if you're just BORN PERFECT! But I always feel pulled to move in one
direction or another, to shift my position on the continuum, if ever so
slightly.
But Suz, your post reminded me that there's another reason people stay in
spot, and that's if they happen to be in the middle of one of those big
clumps. From that perspective, I'd imagine it's easy to lose sight of how far
the range of possibilities actually extends in either direction.
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#124) Yep...
AUTHOR: Kimmer
DATE: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 12:48 p.m.
Reply To: (#122) BINGO!
Author: Giovanna
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 9:28 a.m.
Hi, Giovanna!
: How many times have you heard a mother of a
: young child say, "Tommy is just way to
: attached to me so we are putting him in
: daycare."
I never heard this one, but I once heard a woman say she thought any child who
wasn't left with daycare or a babysitter on a regular basis would grow up to
be very abnormal.
This grated way back when and it still grates now.
: No wonder our children are
: acting the way they are. They are being
: rejected, it seems, since they are six weeks
: old!!!
Another part of this is we as a society no longer know how to truly love
others--only ourselves. This extends to the relatives we slap in the nursing
home unnecessarily (seen that done) right down to the child we bring into the
world.
Each generation has forgotten the others...there is no passing of the torch,
no imparting of a vision. America lets our government, our religious systems
and our television do that for us. The elders are carting about the country
with bumper stickers about spending their children's inheritance, or else so
poor themselves they have to struggle day to day; the parents are too busy
surrounding themselves with more toys and more false security, or else they're
just struggling to make ends meet while half their paycheck goes to support
those RV-carting elders; the youth grow up angry at the falseness and
stupidity, but with no idea how to escape except through rebellion and acting
out.
So, exclusion is not just a HS thing. It's generational, societal, religious
and political. It's everywhere. But, it's nice to think that perhaps we can
change it one child, one family, one neighborhood at a time through our mutual
vision to home educate, no matter how or why we do it.
And now that I've foamed plenty...I'll go rinse off my soapbox! :-D
Kimmer :-)
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#125) Re: BINGO!
AUTHOR: Debbie G.
DATE: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 2:11 p.m.
Reply To: (#122) BINGO!
Author: Giovanna
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 9:28 a.m.
: How many times have you heard a mother of a
: young child say, "Tommy is just way to
: attached to me so we are putting him in
: daycare."
My husband and I have long felt that we are swimming upstream in society. We
do have supporters inside and outside our family, but we are buffeted about
often by the rest. A well meaning friend once told my husband that if my 2yo
was having trouble separating from me for activities that we should put him in
daycare to get him used to it. Members of our family politely ask when is Deb
going back to work. And at every mention of our school they change the subject
-- I mean we aren't really going to persist with this hs nonsense are we?
Luckily my husband and I are able to laugh these things off and keep marching
our own way.
Other than these comments, my pet peeve has always been any parent who never
discplines their child, but lets others do it. For example at a church meeting
a youngster might be interrupting and casuing a problem and the mother never
even turns her head to address her child, and another grown up will handle the
situation. This is just an example, but I have seen this scenario played out
everywhere I go. It is a if they are so used to someone else caring for their
children, they feel no urge to do it themselves.
Okay -- sorry for ranting -- but this has been a great discussion this month.
DEB
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#126) Re: BINGO!
AUTHOR: Susan
DATE: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 10:36 p.m.
Reply To: (#125) Re: BINGO!
Author: Debbie G.
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 2:11 p.m.
I have a related peeve--parents who won't discipline their children, even in
situations of violence or aggressive behavior, but then get mad at a parent
who steps in to the situation.
This is what I have seen time and time again--and these same parents, after
their child has bloodied another child's nose (or whatever), wind up with the
little bully in Mama's lap, getting hugs and kisses, and reassurances that
it's okay to get in trouble, and finally trotting off for ice cream and
cookies, i.e., total reward for violent aggression. Am I alone in having seen
WAY too much of this scene?
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#127) Re: Yep...
AUTHOR: Susan
DATE: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 10:47 p.m.
Reply To: (#124) Yep...
Author: Kimmer
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 12:48 p.m.
: Each generation has forgotten the
: others...there is no passing of the torch,
: no imparting of a vision.
This is exactly the sort of thing I was trying to get at a while back in
ranting about rites of passage...
America lets our
: government, our religious systems and our
: television do that for us.
And none of these institutions are doing anywhere near a good enough job (IMHO
with apologies to those who feel otherwise)--ALL the major institutions I was
raised to believe in and count on have let me down repeatedly, and I'm sure
this is happening more and more to young people. No wonder the alienation and
anger.
The elders are
: carting about the country with bumper
: stickers about spending their children's
: inheritance,
Talk about deadbeat parents--how about deadbeat grandparents? But then, it is
hard to be a good grandparent, I suppose, from a distance--which is how far
away most kids are from their parents' parents. (Roots withering)
or else so poor themselves they
: have to struggle day to day;
shameful in such a wealthy nation as ours, to see so many old folks and women
and children in poverty while millionaires become billionaires (IMHO)
the parents are
: too busy surrounding themselves with more
: toys and more false security,
I wonder if these folks ever slow down and look at themselves and their world,
and say, whoa, is this how I want to live? Is this how I want to model for my
children? The ones I know seem pretty proud of what they're doing...and
scornful of our way...even friends and relatives.
the youth grow up
: angry at the falseness and stupidity, but
: with no idea how to escape except through
: rebellion and acting out.
I don't think this was such a strong or widespread phenomenon before the
advent of broadcast media and compulsory education. Anyone here read Marshall
McLuhan? (The medium is the message?)
: So, exclusion is not just a HS thing. It's
: generational, societal, religious and
: political.
Perhaps this is part of human nature we can never entirely escape? I hope not.
It's everywhere. But, it's nice
: to think that perhaps we can change it one
: child, one family, one neighborhood at a
: time through our mutual vision to home
: educate, no matter how or why we do it.
I like the optimism of this vision. Thank you.
Susan
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#128) Re: family life
AUTHOR: Susan
DATE: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 10:53 p.m.
Reply To: (#67) family life
Author: Nedra
Date: Saturday, 5 February 2000, at 9:03 a.m.
Does he say how to withstand, or shelter our children from the sad effects of,
the overwhelming influences in daily life to the contrary?
My 7yob was crying about this the other day and my heart was breaking. I feel
confident that we are doing the best thing for our kids, but we don't live in
a vacuum, and I find it increasingly difficult to withstand the judgment of
those who know absolutely nothing about what we are doing.
When my kids are just with me and their Dad, without peer influences (ours or
theirs), they are SO happy. Once they start hearing what other kids and
parents do or say or think about our life (and usually the boys tend to hear
only the negatives), everything goes south really fast. Anyone want to buy
some acres and move to the middle of nowhere to homeschool?
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#129) Re: Yep...
AUTHOR: Liz
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 8:52 a.m.
Reply To: (#124) Yep...
Author: Kimmer
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 12:48 p.m.
Yep, yep. I've been there. When my twins were very young I was told that they
needed to be separated from one another and sent to day care on different days
of the week. The "experts" went on to tell me that they needed to form their
own separate identity . . . they were male and female and (looking back) she
was very much a little girl while he loved to climb trees and do the things we
normally associate with little boys. Oh how I wish I had known then what I
know now! When they were older we had one year when my poor little children
attended a total of five schools (thanks to Uncle Sam). At the last school she
did not want to be separated from her brother. The school "experts" told me
that she must have a psychological problem and needed a counselor. Well, I
waged war, and my twins had the same teacher that year. Imagine how that might
have effected her. I wish that I had had the closeness with the first family
that I now have through home schooling. We have friends who are planning new
families and a part of those plans are considerations about whom the caretake
will be. It blows my mind. They long for these children and then search for a
caretaker. I watch dd grow. She is getting so big now and it saddens me. Yes,
she is growing into a beautiful, confident young lady, but her days here at
our home are numbered and, while I want her to have her own lfe someday, I
will truly miss this little one. What a wonderful experience I have been
allowed to be a part of. Liz in SC
: I never heard this one, but I once heard a
: woman say she thought any child who wasn't
: left with daycare or a babysitter on a
: regular basis would grow up to be very
: abnormal.
: This grated way back when and it still grates
: now.
: Another part of this is we as a society no
: longer know how to truly love others--only
: ourselves. This extends to the relatives we
: slap in the nursing home unnecessarily (seen
: that done) right down to the child we bring
: into the world.
: Each generation has forgotten the
: others...there is no passing of the torch,
: no imparting of a vision. America lets our
: government, our religious systems and our
: television do that for us. The elders are
: carting about the country with bumper
: stickers about spending their children's
: inheritance, or else so poor themselves they
: have to struggle day to day; the parents are
: too busy surrounding themselves with more
: toys and more false security, or else
: they're just struggling to make ends meet
: while half their paycheck goes to support
: those RV-carting elders; the youth grow up
: angry at the falseness and stupidity, but
: with no idea how to escape except through
: rebellion and acting out.
: So, exclusion is not just a HS thing. It's
: generational, societal, religious and
: political. It's everywhere. But, it's nice
: to think that perhaps we can change it one
: child, one family, one neighborhood at a
: time through our mutual vision to home
: educate, no matter how or why we do it.
: And now that I've foamed plenty...I'll go rinse
: off my soapbox! :-D
: Kimmer :-)
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#130) Well, it's probably true!
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 9:27 a.m.
Reply To: (#124) Yep...
Author: Kimmer
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 12:48 p.m.
: . . . I once heard a
: woman say she thought any child who wasn't
: left with daycare or a babysitter on a
: regular basis would grow up to be very
: abnormal.
Abnormal? Yeah, there's a good possibility that kids with strong, loving bonds
with their parents and siblings (lasting through the teen years and beyond)
ARE a rarity in our culture. It makes my heart cry, but there it is. Physical
and emotional separation and, as a result, alienation are pretty normal these
days.
Still, I think it's important to remember that togetherness isn't THE answer,
all by itself. Having my children with me is a condition which (I believe)
gives me a better opportunity to be a good parent. It doesn't guarantee I will
be one, however, since it's quite possible to be a lousy parent 24 hours a
day.
Gee, I don't want to stop on that depressing note! LOL!
OK, how's this? The "advice from experts" childrearing books written during
the first part of the 20th century warned against lavishing physical affection
on infants and toddlers. No kissing, no cuddling! Mother-love was viewed as
smothering, harmful, and probably perverse. Sheesh! I think we've come a long
way! Maybe we're told it's OK to "teach independence through separation" (a
cockeyed theory if I ever heard one!), but at least we're allowed to hug and
kiss 'em!
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#131) Re: BINGO!
AUTHOR: Susan
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 9:42 a.m.
Reply To: (#126) Re: BINGO!
Author: Susan
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 10:36 p.m.
: I have a related peeve--parents who won't
: discipline their children, even in
: situations of violence or aggressive
: behavior, but then get mad at a parent who
: steps in to the situation.
: This is what I have seen time and time
: again--and these same parents, after their
: child has bloodied another child's nose (or
: whatever), wind up with the little bully in
: Mama's lap, getting hugs and kisses, and
: reassurances that it's okay to get in
: trouble, and finally trotting off for ice
: cream and cookies, i.e., total reward for
: violent aggression. Am I alone in having
: seen WAY too much of this scene?
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#132) Re: BINGO!
AUTHOR: dawne
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 10:43 a.m.
Reply To: (#122) BINGO!
Author: Giovanna
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 9:28 a.m.
[snip]parents who claim they had no idea their children were being bullied at
school? Parents who have no clue that their child IS the bully?
While I agree with your overall point I must say that the above is a grey area
for me. I noticed changes in my own dear son in 1st grade. He is the type to
suffer in silence. I was there to greet him when the bus dropped him off and
we did lots together. I didn't understand much of his behavior - bursting
emotionally over the smallest things. The personality change didn't go
un-noticed by us - we simply didn't know the WHY or the WHAT. Ben was shut up
tighter than a clam! When things got bad for him [HORRIBLE by my standards] he
just snapped and it all poured out. THEN I understood several of the past
months in hindsight. The school really couldn't help me. They said "change his
diet" or "give him more sleep". My goodness he sleeps from 8 pm to 7am. His
diet is just fine, not perfect but darn good in comparision to the average
American diet. WHEN we realized what was going on the school said "boys will
be boys" and pretty much left it at that. Naturally we are now some of the
most committed homeschoolers we know :0)
: How can they have "NO IDEA"? It's
: unreal but when you look at in through this
: context then you see why. This culture
: "trains" parents not to bond with
: their children.
It is very hard to bond with our kids when we see them for maybe 3 waking
hours a day. Assuming you work till 5 and are home at 5:30. Those hours, I
might point out, are spent in homework, dinner, clean-up and bathtime.
Weekends get caught up in errands and sports so quality time must often be
SCHEDULED in or be forgotten. I've said it to my dh a thousand times
"homeschooling has FREED us from the rat race"!
: How many times have you heard a mother of a
: young child say, "Tommy is just way to
: attached to me so we are putting him in
: daycare." SEE? As if there was something wrong with being attached! We push
our children out of our lives little by little and yes.... in my opinion we
are now seeing the results of this type of thinking.
My question is WHY did that mom think that? Someone/something influenced that
line of thinking. A woman I am having trouble staying friends with often
complains when the kids have a snow day or an admin. day off. I can't see why
she doesn't rejoice to have them and not have to share them that day!! But her
children aren't the most fun to be around either so maybe peace has become
more valuable than a close family. A close family takes work. We are born into
a family. We don't get to choose. We are all different and if some of us met
under different circumstances we may not even be friends! A family takes work,
mostly when they are youngest but I don't think we can ever let up.
: Plus also I think the job of being a stay at
: home mom is horribly undervalued. I have
: friends whose families look down on them and
: even express their disaproval at them
: staying at home. They feel they should be
: out earning a living! You've got to wonder
: about that!! No wonder our children are
: acting the way they are. They are being
: rejected, it seems, since they are six weeks
: old!!!
I couldn't agree with you more on this. In fact when someone asks me what I
"do" I tell them. "oh I used to interpret for money. Now I give my time freely
to be a mom. I just realize NO ONE, save Donald Trump, could afford me so I
content myself with the rewards my children offer ;)"
Let's not forget that we look up to professional athletes, say a major league
ball player. The nature of baseball is such that you are away from your family
more than you are together. No one finds it odd while they watch the 4th AWAY
game in a row. They are cheering for their fav. batter or pitcher. The
thoughts of those kids couldn't be farther from their minds. How many runs
scored, tickets sold - that is important enough to be thought about. Dawne
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#133) Re: BINGO!
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 11:18 a.m.
Reply To: (#132) Re: BINGO!
Author: dawne
Date: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 10:43 a.m.
: A
: close family takes work. We are born into a
: family.
YES IT DOES!!!!! It takes a tremendous amount of work. I do not think that 99%
of the population know what it takes until they are in it. I know I didn't!
(but my mom gave me many warnings!--grin)
You know, as a young mom I used to cling to all kinds of parenting magazines
that would tell you how to "have it all". I remember an issue where they gave
step by step instructions on how to drop off your child at daycare the
"correct way" so that your child wouldn't cry. I'm not kidding you! Back then
I really just didn't know. I thought surely the "experts" were right. The
magazines, in my opinion, didn't encourage moms to stay home. They were
basically a guide on how to "survive parenthood" until the kids got old enough
to care for themselves. I bought it all and believe it!
So what did it take for me to think differently? Other's lifestyle examples.
And now that I think about it, I don't think my mind and heart were open
enough to understand why the lifestyle I have now is much more peaceful and
productive than the rat race I was in until the right time came! :-( Kind of
scary I think. What if the "revelation" of it all had not hit me? I see so
many people just going through the motions of life--doing what the media tells
them is right. They don't ask themselves WHY. But I know for a while there I
was in the same boat.
Giovanna
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#134) Speaking of exclusion...
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 11:27 a.m.
Reply To: (#122) BINGO!
Author: Giovanna
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 9:28 a.m.
What we're commenting on here is the continuation of longstanding societal
attitudes that encourage parents to EXCLUDE children from their lives.
What we usually hear is a lot of lip-service about much we value children in
our modern Western culture. It's true that most adult couples want to bear
children -- that is, they want to be parents. But the physical presence of
those children is commonly viewed as an impediment to adult society. This is
hardly a NEW attitude. My own great-grandfather (born 160 years ago in
Arkansas) was a big proponent of that nasty old maxim, "Children should be
seen and not heard."
I do chafe a little bit when I hear folks say that the devaluation of children
is some horrible new trend invented by this or that policial party (for
instance) or a sure sign that we're all headed for you-know-where in a
handbasket. Children, let's face it, have been undervalued, mistreated,
disenfranchised, enslaved, abandoned, and ignored throughout the millennia.
Why? Well, they're relatively powerless. If you want to feel a little bit
better about the way we raise our kids in 2000, read about childhood in 1200
or 1600 or 1800! Yipes! We have IMPROVED, no doubt about it.
But we still have a long way to go, IMO. My belief is that we value chidlren
when we welcome them into our lives and let them know (by our actions and
words) that we enjoy their company on a daily basis, in all kinds of
situations.
The big parental challenge (and someone else touched on this in another recent
post) is to "teach your children well," so that their company truly is
enjoyable.
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#135) Re: Speaking of exclusion...
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 11:39 a.m.
Reply To: (#134) Speaking of exclusion...
Author: Cerelle
Date: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 11:27 a.m.
: I do chafe a little bit when I hear folks say
: that the devaluation of children is some
: horrible new trend invented by this or that
: policial party (for instance) or a sure sign
: that we're all headed for you-know-where in
: a handbasket. Children, let's face it, have
: been undervalued, mistreated,
: disenfranchised, enslaved, abandoned, and
: ignored throughout the millennia. Why? Well,
: they're relatively powerless. If you want to
: feel a little bit better about the way we
: raise our kids in 2000, read about childhood
: in 1200 or 1600 or 1800! Yipes! We have
: IMPROVED, no doubt about it.
OOOOH GREAT POINT! Yes, you are right!
(and you tied all of this into our topic so well, Cerelle! Way to go! LOL!
Great of you to keep us on topic!) :-D
: But we still have a long way to go, IMO. My
: belief is that we value chidlren when we
: welcome them into our lives and let them
: know (by our actions and words) that we
: enjoy their company on a daily basis, in all
: kinds of situations.
Now here's a questions for you. In your opinion, how does social change come
about?
The "yuppie-indulgement" movement in the 80's for example, in my opinion, came
about due to the economy. But not that I'm an expert on this stuff. There are
other factors, I'm sure.
How does mindset and social change come about? Personally, I believe we ARE
making a difference even though sometimes we don't think we are. I think our
lifestyle examples do make an impact. I know, right now, this discussion might
be read by someone and it might make a difference for them. Care to expand on
that a little?
Giovanna
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#136) Re: Healthy support group
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 11:44 a.m.
Reply To: (#115) Healthy support group
Author: Peggy
Date: Wednesday, 9 February 2000, at 4:43 p.m.
Peggy, you've made some really good points here. Another argument for
inclusive groups is that adults can and do learn valuable skills from one
another. Keeping support groups open to all is a way to spread around the
education.
One thing a healthy support groups needs is a fair distribution of work and
responsibility. Otherwise, the workers (a.k.a. leaders) burn out and lose
heart. I've heard of some homeschooling support groups that REQUIRE every new
member to volunteer for something. I don't know -- that seems kind of
excessive to me. I don't think I'd want my own group to go that way, but the
principle is sound -- all the members do need to be encouraged to contribute,
so that they'll feel ownership of the group AND so that the leaders aren't in
a constant state of overwhelm.
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#137) Re: Speaking of exclusion...
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 12:07 p.m.
Reply To: (#135) Re: Speaking of exclusion...
Author: Giovanna
Date: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 11:39 a.m.
: Now here's a questions for you. In your
: opinion, how does social change come about?
Giovanna, you have obviously not been reading my posts! LOL! (Honestly, it's a
good thing I don't get my feelings hurt easily. JUST KIDDING!)
Here's what I said in reply to Michelle a couple of days ago...
"Philosophically, I have always believed that the best way to bring about
social change is to do what you believe is right and do it well. Then, if you
manage to make a good job of it, others are likely to want to follow your
example. Back in my hippie days, this was commonly known as "not pushing your
trip." Still works for me! :) "
Really, I do believe that. Social change, IMO, always happens from the ground
up. Yes, it can be influenced by many factors, including the overall
prosperity of a culture (or lack thereof), but the bottom line is that social
change is just people behaving differently. At first, only a few will behave
differently, but if those people enjoy success and seem content, their
behavior will spread to others.
: The "yuppie-indulgement" movement in
: the 80's for example, in my opinion, came
: about due to the economy. But not that I'm
: an expert on this stuff. There are other
: factors, I'm sure.
It's so interesting you brought this up. I recently read a book called A
Distant Mirror (by historian Barbara Tuchman), and I was fascinated to read
about the "yuppie mentality" of Europeans in the 14th century. Wow. Good
reading, if you're up for that kind thing.
: How does mindset and social change come about?
: Personally, I believe we ARE making a
: difference even though sometimes we don't
: think we are. I think our lifestyle examples
: do make an impact. I know, right now, this
: discussion might be read by someone and it
: might make a difference for them. Care to
: expand on that a little?
Well, we've seen all kinds of examples of social change, just in our own
generation. The homeschooling movement is a great place to start! Twenty-five
years ago, only a handful of families across the country were teaching their
children at home. They were considered VERY STRANGE by most American citizens.
Ten years ago, most people knew of someone in their family or community who
was homeschooling. Today, it's commonplace. Homeschoolers are still in a tiny
minority, of course, but we have definitely changed the way America thinks
about education. Joe P. Average no longer thinks of the classroom as the only
viable learning venue. Do you realize what a remarkable achievement this is?
And it all came about by example...by a few mavericks doing something "crazy"
because they thought it was the best thing to do, and then by other people
being encouraged to try it for themselves. And so on...and so on...just like
the old shampoo ad.
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#138) Re: Speaking of exclusion...
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 12:41 p.m.
Reply To: (#137) Re: Speaking of exclusion...
Author: Cerelle
Date: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 12:07 p.m.
HEY! OF COURSE I READ YOUR POSTS!!!! I read ALL of them :-) And I do remember
reading this but I guess I just had brain lapse! LOL! Must have been hitting
that deer on the road. :-(
You wrote:
:
: "Philosophically, I have always believed
: that the best way to bring about social
: change is to do what you believe is right
: and do it well. Then, if you manage to make
: a good job of it, others are likely to want
: to follow your example.
YES! And I believe this homeschooling movement will not just affect our
children but also society as a whole!
: It's so interesting you brought this up. I
: recently read a book called A Distant Mirror
: (by historian Barbara Tuchman), and I was
: fascinated to read about the "yuppie
: mentality" of Europeans in the 14th
: century. Wow.
In the 14th century? WOW! Nothing is new under the sun!
:. Joe
: P. Average no longer thinks of the classroom
: as the only viable learning venue. Do you
: realize what a remarkable achievement this
: is? And it all came about by example...by a
: few mavericks doing something
: "crazy" because they thought it
: was the best thing to do, and then by other
: people being encouraged to try it for
: themselves.
It reminds me of the Pilgrims and how their crazy adventure was actually the
beginning of a form of government that would later serve as a model for other
countries. Gives me goosebumps! You know though... I must admit... I have
always liked being "different" and sort of a "maverick", don't you? It's just
exciting! :-)
Giovanna
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#139) Something else I just thought of--
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 1:34 p.m.
Reply To: (#135) Re: Speaking of exclusion...
Author: Giovanna
Date: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 11:39 a.m.
About social change and homeschooling...
If you get right down to it, the homeschooling movement can be seen as one
manifestation of the general anti-authority, anti-establishment social
movement of the 2nd half of the 20th century.
Originally (and still today, to a large extent), homeschooling parents were
the kind of people who didn't mind bucking recent tradition and authority.
They didn't care what society or the government or the school authorities said
they "had" to do. The fact that this kind of behavior caught on and has become
fairly widespread indicates that social pressure and authority have lost the
ability they once had to control what everyone does (at least in the field of
education). It indicates, perhaps, that a growing number of individuals today
are feeling empowered to make their own decisions, based on what they believe
is best for them.
But other pressures have contributed to the growth of the homeschooling
movement, too. Dissatisfaction with the public and private school experience
has been growing, just as homeschoolers have been demonstrating that children
don't have to be in a classroom to learn.
So social change is a phenomenon based on a variety of factors, I guess, which
can include pressures from without as well as encouraging examples from
within.
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#140) Re: How to make inclusive group work
AUTHOR: Annette
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 6:39 p.m.
Reply To: (#91) How to make inclusive group work
Author: Katie in VA
Date: Monday, 7 February 2000, at 8:56 a.m.
Katie, How did it go yesterday?! I can't wait to hear. Annette
Okay, everyone, the first meeting of an
: inclusive group I am starting is on
: Thursday. I am very excited to have the
: opportunity to create a social experience
: for my son and I! I don't want to offend
: anyone, but I want true tolerance and
: respect in the group, and a willingness to
: welcome newcomers despite the change in
: group dynamics that will inevitably occur
: each time a new family joins the group. I
: don't want the us and them mentality.
: Because I am forming the group, I feel I do
: have some right to define the group. What
: would be a good opening? Should I write the
: group statement of purpose before the first
: meeting? Because I have 9 families already
: signed up to come, I'm concerned that trying
: to give everyone input will lead down a
: difficult path. Making decisions by
: committee can be a pain! And if it starts
: out too democratic, it may quickly become a
: group that doesn't suit my particular needs!
: Finally, anyone have an idea of a good
: "ice breaker"? I want to start
: with something that might bring a few
: laughs. I was considering a game to remember
: everyone's names, like, "I'm going to
: Timbuktu and I'm bringing Carol...I'm going
: to Timbuktu and I'm bringing Carol,
: Martha...and so on. Any ideas????? Sorry to
: be so chatty......TIA !!!! Katie
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#141) Thanks for asking! (long)
AUTHOR: Katie
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 7:19 p.m.
Reply To: (#140) Re: How to make inclusive group work
Author: Annette
Date: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 6:39 p.m.
Thanks for asking! This is such a growth oppotunity for me! The meeting was
very interesting. I met two women I really liked a lot (who volunteered to
help!) and several I would like to get to know better, and a couple of women
who seemed like they might be difficult for me to get along with. It was
interesting observing how each person behaved, especially in the context of
what everyone has talked about on this board! I found myself thinking an
inclusive group might be difficult to maintain, in the sense that some of the
women were, well, a bit self absorbed and easily miffed (is that a word? seems
to fit here.) So now I fully understand I'm creating something I can't
control! I felt awkward proposing that we come up with some group rules. No
one responded with, "good idea!" or with any suggestions. They just started
talking among themselves and ignored me! And we didn't monitor their kid's
behavior very well, no one seemed to feel the need...but..... One mom let her
2yo ransack the snack table, lick all the cups, etc. and I spent money on that
stuff!!!! Then again, my son was rolling across the floor at one point and
almost smooshed a baby! It was a bit chaotic. I didn't know if I should try to
take control and set limits or not! I went in organized and it seemed like
some of the women weren't quite ready for that. And I didn't want to come
across as bossy or too self important. The highpoint for me was my 6yo son
giving a presentation on math. It was so cute. He is normally very shy, but he
felt some "ownership" of the group, greeted everyone, and did a great job.
Thanks for letting me vent. We already have playdates scheduled, field trips
planned, and each family has agreed to lead a monthly meeting. So, really, it
went great. I think it's interesting how I wound up feeling about the group
dynamics, etc. Any thoughts?
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#142) Re: Thanks for asking! (long)
AUTHOR: Annette
DATE: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 7:34 p.m.
Reply To: (#141) Thanks for asking! (long)
Author: Katie
Date: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 7:19 p.m.
Katie, sounds interesting. IMO an inlusive group can work. This next statement
may sound contradictory to that goal but oh well. :o) if seemone comes and
doesn't like the way the group is run or the style or whatever...they are free
to stay and particiapte in what they like but NOT cause dissension by nit
picking to everyone else in the group...or they can choose to not come
anymore. Every group won't meet everyones ideals. Meeting each month in a
different house sounds perfect for now. That way each hostess can set her own
boundaries as far as what is acceptable in her home....ie. 2yo licking cups.
LOL That way you aren't always the heavy. When each mom hosts the meeting does
that mean she gets to kind of open the meeting and be in charge or is it
purely her sharing her home? I think setting some basic rules of civility
would be ok...like no 2yo's licking cups....sorry to keep going back to that
but it just cracks me up. I think because it reminds me of last night at my
hosue....*wild*...but its totally off topic so I won't go there. It involved
some wayward hamsters though. LOL Anyway, back to your meeting...it sounds
like it went really well. you came away with some future meeting times, future
meeting places, field trips, classes, you accomplished a lot! How often are
you all planning on meeting...is it once a month?
I am happy for you! (HUG) Annette
Thanks for asking! This is such a growth
: oppotunity for me! The meeting was very
: interesting. I met two women I really liked
: a lot (who volunteered to help!) and several
: I would like to get to know better, and a
: couple of women who seemed like they might
: be difficult for me to get along with. It
: was interesting observing how each person
: behaved, especially in the context of what
: everyone has talked about on this board! I
: found myself thinking an inclusive group
: might be difficult to maintain, in the sense
: that some of the women were, well, a bit
: self absorbed and easily miffed (is that a
: word? seems to fit here.) So now I fully
: understand I'm creating something I can't
: control! I felt awkward proposing that we
: come up with some group rules. No one
: responded with, "good idea!" or
: with any suggestions. They just started
: talking among themselves and ignored me! And
: we didn't monitor their kid's behavior very
: well, no one seemed to feel the
: need...but..... One mom let her 2yo ransack
: the snack table, lick all the cups, etc. and
: I spent money on that stuff!!!! Then again,
: my son was rolling across the floor at one
: point and almost smooshed a baby! It was a
: bit chaotic. I didn't know if I should try
: to take control and set limits or not! I
: went in organized and it seemed like some of
: the women weren't quite ready for that. And
: I didn't want to come across as bossy or too
: self important. The highpoint for me was my
: 6yo son giving a presentation on math. It
: was so cute. He is normally very shy, but he
: felt some "ownership" of the
: group, greeted everyone, and did a great
: job. Thanks for letting me vent. We already
: have playdates scheduled, field trips
: planned, and each family has agreed to lead
: a monthly meeting. So, really, it went
: great. I think it's interesting how I wound
: up feeling about the group dynamics, etc.
: Any thoughts?
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#143) Oh... you and your hobby horses! ;-)
AUTHOR: M. Bear
DATE: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 8:19 a.m.
Reply To: (#123) I gotta make my continuum speech (again!)
Author: Cerelle
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 12:27 p.m.
Cerelle,
Thanks for trotting out that one "again", I missed it the first time around.
: I like to think of this stuff in terms of a
: continuum, because (1) it helps me NOT think
: about it in those old us/them dichotomies,
: and because (2) it encourages me to remember
: that I'm still growing and learning and
: changing.
A great perspective! Thanks for the reminder.
: But Suz, your post reminded me that there's
: another reason people stay in spot, and
: that's if they happen to be in the middle of
: one of those big clumps. From that
: perspective, I'd imagine it's easy to lose
: sight of how far the range of possibilities
: actually extends in either direction.
And don't forget, even if/when someone catches a glimpse of the distant vistas
of possiblility, pushing through and OUT of that clump isn't an easy task.
(I'll 'see' your behavioral number line, and 'raise' you one law of inertia?
*G*)
Really stretching to close with an 'on topic' note, but haven't had my coffee
yet. Hmmm, how 'bout... If you're ever feeling 'excluded' from a group, try
looking on the bright side: No one's standing between you and the vistas of
possibility.
Great topic, y'all. Thanks! MB
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#144) Re: BINGO!
AUTHOR: Kim from sidetr
DATE: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 9:24 a.m.
Reply To: (#122) BINGO!
Author: Giovanna
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 9:28 a.m.
:This culture
: "trains" parents not to bond with
: their children.
MY OWN MOTHER is doing that (and it makes me sick !) I have a sister who is
almost five and HAD to go to preschool this year to get her OUT of her
"comfort zone"... so she could SOCIALIZE with kids her own age .... :-|
(squinty eyes ... )
and I'm telling you ! I nearly suffered from a tongue hemorage (sp !) from
biting on it !!
=8-X
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#145) Re: Thanks for asking! (long)
AUTHOR: Katie
DATE: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 11:34 a.m.
Reply To: (#142) Re: Thanks for asking! (long)
Author: Annette
Date: Friday, 11 February 2000, at 7:34 p.m.
Hi Annette! Actually, we had the meeting at the local library and will
continue to do that. I will serve as communicator/coordinator for scheduling
meetings and making announcements. And in the beginning, I feel it should be
my role to encourage the group to come up with some basic rules for the group.
Nothing too strict, but some structure so that we stay on course. Wayward
hamsters???? Now you're making me laugh :o) Because I started the group to
meet friends and have a social life for me and my son, we plan to do lots of
stuff. A monthly meeting with the host family (at the library), weekly play
dates at a park, monthly field trips, shared learning as ideas occur to us,
monthly mom's night out, a mom's book group (not homeschooling related!), and
private play dates, too. One of the mother's I really clicked with invited
Barrett and I over next week for a visit!!! There will be so many great
opportunities with this group. And I like what you said about being assertive
with members who are causing divisivness (did I spell that right?). I think I
can handle gently confronting people who threaten to spoil the fun for the
whole group. But in the moment, when a person is being obnoxious, sometimes I
am too nervous to say anything....then I regret it later. This is going to be
a great growth opportunity for me! And maybe knowing that I am trying to model
healthy behavior for my son will give me the courage to be kind, but
assertive!! My dh won't let us get hampsters, an ant farm, or anything like
that! It took me 10 years to convince him we should have a cat.....luckily, a
little grey mouse in the living room helped my cause!! Well, have a great
weekend!! I'll keep you posted on my group experiences! Katie
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#146) Re: Thanks for asking! (long)
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 12:52 p.m.
Reply To: (#145) Re: Thanks for asking! (long)
Author: Katie
Date: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 11:34 a.m.
: This is going to be a great growth
: opportunity for me! And maybe knowing that I
: am trying to model healthy behavior for my
: son will give me the courage to be kind, but
: assertive!!
Kind, but assertive -- now THAT'S a worthy goal! And a tough one, too, if my
own experience is any guide. You know what would be really interesting? What
if you kept a journal, or some kind of written record, of the social
challenges involved in this new project of yours? Might make a great article
for a homeschooling magazine, or possibly even a book!
The toddler licking all the cups was hilarious! (For me -- I wasn't there, and
they weren't my cups.) I think we've all been in situations like that one.
Years ago, an acquaintance of mine looked blithely on while her toddler
smeared peanut butter and jelly all over my piano keys. EEK! If memory serves,
I quietly got a damp rag and cleaned up the piano AND the child's hands, and
said nothing about it to mother. Sometimes actions speak louder than words.
Then again, there are a few moms out there who never seem to notice anything
at all -- neither their children's (mis)behavior nor the Herculean efforts of
others to neutralize that behavior.
The other truth is that there's a wide range of behaviors that adults find
acceptable. Some people's angle of tolerance (believe it or not) might be wide
enough to accept cup-licking toddlers! Oh, ROTFL, I'm sorry, but that's an
image that just won't go away...
My advice about rules (if I may horn in for just a moment, here) is to try to
keep them broad and simple. Otherwise, you might wind up with a blizzard of
little nit-picky rules, with new situations continually arising that require
even MORE rules. Naturally, it's better for morale if a rule is stated
positively. For instance, "Remember other people's feelings," is better than
"Don't disregard other people's feelings."
Hey, and if you hit on the magic way to include "obnoxious people" while
keeping everyone else happy, DO let me know, OK? :)
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#147) Re: family life
AUTHOR: Liz
DATE: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 1:19 p.m.
Reply To: (#128) Re: family life
Author: Susan
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 10:53 p.m.
DD had been making, "I want to go back to school," sounds, and it has worried
me. If her desire became really strong, we would look into it. I have voiced
these sentiments before. Next school year she has been given the opportunity
to sit in on a Biology class for homeschooled students taught by an EX
(certified) high school Biology teacher. She is so excited, and I am so
releived that the push to go to school is off again. I think she will find the
class a mixed bag of experiences and am looking forward to her reaction. I do
hope it's positive and fills her need to be in a class room situation.
As for family, I know just what you mean and agree. I prefer families where
our soializing is a combintion of parents and children. It's nice to spend
time with people who love the company of their children. It shows on both the
children and their parents. Liz in SC: Does he say how to withstand, or
shelter our
: children from the sad effects of, the
: overwhelming influences in daily life to the
: contrary?
: My 7yob was crying about this the other day and
: my heart was breaking. I feel confident that
: we are doing the best thing for our kids,
: but we don't live in a vacuum, and I find it
: increasingly difficult to withstand the
: judgment of those who know absolutely
: nothing about what we are doing.
: When my kids are just with me and their Dad,
: without peer influences (ours or theirs),
: they are SO happy. Once they start hearing
: what other kids and parents do or say or
: think about our life (and usually the boys
: tend to hear only the negatives), everything
: goes south really fast. Anyone want to buy
: some acres and move to the middle of nowhere
: to homeschool?
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#148) Set the tone! (long)
AUTHOR: Sandra in Chamb
DATE: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 1:34 p.m.
Reply To: (#128) Re: family life
Author: Susan
Date: Thursday, 10 February 2000, at 10:53 p.m.
I find that much of the negativity (hostility!) towards homeschooling is
really defensive behavior. Try taking the lead by supporting others in their
non-homeschooling choices, i.e., casually agreeing that homeschooling is not
for everybody, and treating other families' choices with respect. I no longer
launch into an enthusiastic discussion of the joys of homeschooling. Rather, I
answer questions with, "We love it; it really suits our family," then move on
to other subjects. If the person is genuinely curious, he/she will ask more
questions, which I'm glad to answer briefly. When people seem hostile, I just
shrug and say, "Well, of COURSE you need to make decisions for each child
based on that PARTICULAR child's needs." I simply refuse to allow anyone to
"bait" me on this subject, which is nobody's business, anyway!
Oddly enough, some of the comments we get are so positive, I shrug them off,
as well. For instance, I'll respond with, "Of course he knows a lot about
that, because he's really interested in it. Being homeschooled, he can really
dig into a subject in ways that just wouldn't be possible in a classroom." And
it's true that an ORDINARY KID, given the interest and the encouragement,
would know just as much about that subject as my son!
As the years pass, we find that our confidence in what we're doing builds
other people's confidence in homeschooling's being perfectly normal. As for
your son's hurt feelings, I urge you to teach him to look at homeschooling as
just another choice about schooling. We make a point of socializing with
public schooled and private schooled kids, as well as homeschooled ones.
Treating everybody's choices with respect, not being either competitive or
defensive ourselves in any way, and never attacking other people's decisions,
all contribute to very comfortable mingling. I guess this is what this month's
topic is all about, isn't it?
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#150) Wonderful post!
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 4:22 p.m.
Reply To: (#148) Set the tone! (long)
Author: Sandra in Chamb
Date: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 1:34 p.m.
Wow, Sandra, you said it all so well! I loved it. And I especially loved this
last part, which pretty much puts the whole message in a nutshell (and in
excellent prose, too!):
: Treating
: everybody's choices with respect, not being
: either competitive or defensive ourselves in
: any way, and never attacking other people's
: decisions, all contribute to very
: comfortable mingling. I guess this is what
: this month's topic is all about, isn't it?
YES! Exactly!
Thank you for taking the time to say it.
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#151) You're not the first....
AUTHOR: Katie
DATE: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 4:37 p.m.
Reply To: (#146) Re: Thanks for asking! (long)
Author: Cerelle
Date: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 12:52 p.m.
Well, Cerelle, you're not the first person who has suggested that I keep a
journal about this. And, actually, I am a writer with a masters in social
work...so maybe I could put together an article or short book. Judging by the
response to this month's topic, I bet a thoughtful look at the social process
involved in becoming a homeschooler and being in an HS group would be quite
interesting. The only person from the first group meeting that still has me
thinking is a woman who has a 1yo, a 2-1/2yo and a baby on the way. While she
was insistent that group meeting times coincide with her schedule, I kept
wondering why she wanted to be in the group, given that her kids are so small.
Is it common to have moms with only young children in hsing groups? How can we
best meet her needs, while attending to what I consider to be the more
pressing needs of moms with school-age children? Am I off base? I'd appreciate
your thoughts on this. I enjoy reading your posts on this board. Thanks! Katie
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#152) Re: Set the tone! (long)
AUTHOR: Annette
DATE: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 9:02 p.m.
Reply To: (#148) Set the tone! (long)
Author: Sandra in Chamb
Date: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 1:34 p.m.
Wow what a wonderful post. Perfectly said.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#153) Re: trying my question again...
AUTHOR: Eugenia W. Davi
DATE: Sunday, 13 February 2000, at 9:24 a.m.
Reply To: (#109) trying my question again...
Author: Denise
Date: Tuesday, 8 February 2000, at 7:22 p.m.
I really believe that parents are the single greatest influence on a child's
behavior, whether or not the child is in school.
When our children were little (under 6) and I was reading all about
homeschooling, I drew the false conclusion that if we homeschooled our kids,
they would be polite, paragons of virtue (ha!). Also (although I didn't
realize it at the time), I bought into the idea that PS kids would compare
less favorably with my little angels, across the board.
Now, after three or four years of HSing, and with friends in PS, HS friends,
neighbor children, acquaintances made through Girl Scouts and Cub Scouts,
etc., I realize that when parents work hard to help their children learn good
manners and appropriate behavior, the results are evident. And when parents
aren't interested in making this effort, the results are also evident. Whether
or not a child is in school really doesn't seem to make or break their
manners, in my experience.
Some examples: Several PS girls in my daughter's Brownie troop are unfailingly
polite and respectful, both in person and on the phone. These are girls I'd be
happy to take anywhere, in large groups or individually.
AND, in our usually calm HS Geography Club, when an 11-yo boy punched a 4 yo
in the stomach and knocked him off the slide, the 11 yo didn't even bother to
tell me or his mother or the 4 yo's dad about it; he just left the little boy
crying under a tree. When the adults discovered what had happened, the mother
of the big boy said, "Oh, well, Bobby, I guess you got a little over excited,
didn't you?" Period. Needless to say, I'm not assuming that because Bobby is
homeschooled, he's got decent manners.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#154) A mom with very young children (in a support group
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Monday, 14 February 2000, at 9:47 a.m.
Reply To: (#151) You're not the first....
Author: Katie
Date: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 4:37 p.m.
: The only person from the first
: group meeting that still has me thinking is
: a woman who has a 1yo, a 2-1/2yo and a baby
: on the way. [snip]
: Is it common to have moms with only
: young children in hsing groups?
I don't know if it's common, exactly, but it's not unusual, either. Some
parents are so attracted by the idea of homeschooling, they just can't wait to
get started!
You're right, though -- a mother with children so young WILL have different
needs from the mom with older kids. She will likely have a slightly different
mindset, too, because it's easy to theorize about some of this stuff...but
until you've actually been there and done that -- with your own children, that
is -- the theories are only theories. I've seen many a strident unschooler
crumble (after years of impassioned rhetoric) and rush out to buy typical
curriculum materials, once their children got past preschool-age, LOL!
In support group I belong to, there are children of many different ages, and
the only way to meet everyone's needs is to encourage members to plan
activities that their own children will enjoy. I think this would hold true
even in a small group like yours. You can't be expected to plan activities
that will be age-appropriate for a 2-year-old, if your own children are a lot
older. What you CAN do is invite this mother to find things she'd like to do
with her 2-year-old. There may be other moms in the group, with younger
children, who would like to join in.
It may be that this mom is having trouble finding other mothers with an
interest in homeschooling, and she's hungry for like-minded companions. Having
2 children so close together and so young can be a very isolating thing,
anyway. She may not have many opportunities to get out and be with other
women. (I don't know -- just guessing.) I guess what I'm trying to say is that
her social skills may be a little rusty! :) If that's the case, your group
could be a lifesaver and a training ground.
How about the rest of you? Who has experience accommodating the needs of
someone with only very young children, in a support group situation?
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#155) Re: Set the tone! (long)
AUTHOR: dmx
DATE: Monday, 14 February 2000, at 3:37 p.m.
Reply To: (#148) Set the tone! (long)
Author: Sandra in Chamb
Date: Saturday, 12 February 2000, at 1:34 p.m.
Agreed! About 5 years ago, I read an article in Home Education Magazine. The
writer advised parents who discussed homeschooling to start out assuming that
the other person/people had the best interests of the kids at heart. This
advice really changed the way I 'heard' what other people were saying. Often,
I discovered friends and relatives were just worried about my son. I myself
worry all the time about issues in homeschooling: how much structure, how much
effort to put into social issues, how much math, etc. Why is it so strange
that others would wonder about those issues, too!? Giving the other person the
benefit of the doubt made things so much easier when discussing homeschooling!
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End of part 2
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