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Homeschooling Middle School and Beyond Digest (part 1)
MESSAGE: Pulling kids out of PS in the Middle School Years AUTHOR: Martha DATE: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 12:57 p.m. Do any of you have experience in pulling a child out of public school in his middle school years? Have you had success with overhauling the rebellious spirit that sometimes is present at this age? Just looking for help. ======================================== MESSAGE: The rebellious spirit AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 2:10 p.m. Response To: Pulling kids out of PS in the Middle School Years Author: Martha Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 12:57 p.m. Hi, Martha-- I don't have experience pulling kids out of PS during the middle school years, so I'm pretty much talking through my hat...BUT... I think the "rebellious spirit" has its roots in an adversarial relationship between children and adults that the school environment (in my opinion) fosters. So often, the adults are viewed as the enemy -- the prison guards who are watching for the slightest infraction of the rules. By the time a child reaches the middle years and is beginning to try to develop a stronger sense of self, the accumulated resentment towards adults (and sometimes other children, too) reaches critical mass. The result? Rebellion, apathy, withdrawal, and/or outright hostility. In a nutshell, Disaffected Youth. Everyone seems to warn parents not to try to be their children's "best friend." I vehemently disagree. Perhaps I'm thinking of a different definition of friendship, but who on earth is in a stronger position to be my child's best friend than me? I advocate friendship with children. What does a best friend do? Well, she listens. She encourages. She exercises patience. She is loyal, standing beside her friend, even when everyone else turns away. She brings out the best in her friend's nature. She tells the truth. She shares her own feelings and opinions. She gives of her time. She makes sacrifices and occasionally expects the same in return. This is what it means to me to "be a friend," and I can't imagine why this would be wrong for a parent to do. The standard response is that a parent is supposed to provide guidance and set limits. Well, don't friends do this, too? Children can be unbelievably loyal to those who demonstrate their love and friendship. Rebellion? Not against their true friends! I believe we can be the truest friends our children could ever hope to have. Of course, friendship takes time, and the bonds between parent and child get eroded sometimes when school and peers gain the ascendancy. We might have to prove ourselves all over again, in that case, and it may take a while. But I firmly believe any parent can win back a child's devotion by offering friendship on a day-in, day-out basis. Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: So, what is it like? AUTHOR: Debra DATE: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 5:29 p.m. I wonder what our days will be like in middle school. Will the children do more work "on their own" or will they still need a lot of help? I am hoping they will eventually do more self directed studies and use me more as a resource and a guide. I have found for myself that I learn more on my own than when someone tries to "teach" me, so I guess I assume it will be the same for them. So what is a typical day for a middle schooler? I would like to hear what some of you are doing. ======================================== MESSAGE: This topic is so timely for our family... AUTHOR: Charity (AK) DATE: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 6:18 p.m. My eldest is about 11.5 and has really picked up speed this year. I'm having a hard time keeping up! I'd like to hear discussion and/or input on the following: 1. Record-Keeping Logistics for the College Bound: I'd love to hear from those of you who have found an efficient way to build transcripts. What do you put on transcripts? How you convert hours spent in studies into carnegie units or credits? Or how about those of you going the portfolio route? What types of work do you include? Do you grade? If so, how. I've done just bits of grading to date - not really feeling it was terribly necessary. Now I'd like to begin grading and I want to use a challenging scale. 2. Teaching Beyond Your Own Knowledge Level: How do you tutor your children when they have surpassed your own academic limits? I know that they work more independently as they get older, but they STILL need some type of instructions and feedback, don't they? How expensive is it to have a tutor make house calls? :) 3. Advanced Placement Programs: I received quite a bit of college credit through my HS AP programs. It saved me some pretty pennies and I'd like to point my son in the same direction. Anyone out there using the AP programs? Well...I know I have tons more questions, but I've taken up more than my share of bandwidth already. :) blessings Charity ======================================== MESSAGE: Here's our typical day... AUTHOR: Charity (AK) DATE: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 6:33 p.m. Response To: So, what is it like? Author: Debra Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 5:29 p.m. Here's my 11.5 yo son's day: Rise, Dress, Groom, Eat, Chores Military-style Calisthenics - Whole family together - about half hour Bible, Weekly Hymn and Verse, Prayer (together with family) Unit Study Reading: Usually this involves Mom reading aloud a biography or resource material related to our unit study topic. Much discussion takes place. With the whole family. Math : Saxon (just about to start Algebra 1/2), DIMES (a WONDERFUL isometric diagramming program), Calculadder (drillwork), works on Algorithm notebook (a math project recording all learned algorithms to date) - almost all of this is done independently. I check in here and there. Sometimes he dictates his algorithms to me so he can concentrate on explaining them. Language: Spelling Power, Abeka, Handwriting, Research Reports. Almost all of this is done independently. I check in here and there. LUNCH Unit Study Work: Projects related to our unit studies. We alternate between history and science units - usually six weeks each. Afternoons: Swimming lessons twice a week. Perhaps archery with Dad. Chores. Lots of independent reading, most of son's own choice - a few titles mandated by Mom. Project Time: Dad requires that each child spend an hour in a quiet pursuit which must meet certain criteria (of own initiative, must have something to show for it when done, must be skill-building, etc.) Mom also has a list of "Life Skills" that I work on with the boys in the afternoon. Important things like "how to properly clean a toilet" or "how to sew on a button." :) Dinner and Free Time till bed. That's our middle-schooler's day. I'd love to hear from others! Charity ======================================== MESSAGE: Question for Charity.... AUTHOR: Tina DATE: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 7:23 p.m. Response To: Here's our typical day... Author: Charity (AK) Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 6:33 p.m. Charity, would you be willing to post your list of "Life Skills" ....I know I need to cover this more with my son!!! Thanks Tina ======================================== MESSAGE: I pulled mine out in 7th and 6th grades AUTHOR: Kysa DATE: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 8:33 p.m. Response To: Pulling kids out of PS in the Middle School Years Author: Martha Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 12:57 p.m. I pulled my son out at the end of 7th grade. He was upset and beligerent for about 3 months. He VISIBLY relaxed when school started and we really, truly kept him home. Those few months were the only time I had a "teenager" in my house. I let my daughter continue public school that next year (grade 6). We both wish I had not. She did not want to leave the public school but was TENSE every day after school. My children are now 18 (19 next month) and a sophomore in college on 2 academic scholarships. Homeschooling let him really excell. My nearly 17 y/o daughter is now a big fan of home schooling and is my friend. That is the one thing I cherish the most. I don't know if we would have had that relationship if she had stayed in public school, but I doubt it. Both kids are grateful for the freedom from all the negative stuff that even they could recognise in school. ======================================== MESSAGE: A "typical" day here. AUTHOR: MaryL DATE: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 8:37 p.m. Response To: So, what is it like? Author: Debra Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 5:29 p.m. I put "typical" in quote because it's just so tough to give you a description of our days. We are *very* relaxed, unstructured and interest driven. My 14 1/2 yr. old (who has been homeschooled for 6 yrs.) is almost completely self-motivated and directed. She chose this year to do "American School" for high school. (and just about broke her mostly unschooling mother's heart, I can tell you. She accomplishes so much more on her own, but it was what she wanted). A "typical" day for her will *always* include an enormous amount of time both writing and drawing, passions of hers. She has several novels going on the computer and is constantly attempting to improve her drawing. She also does some of that tedious text work from American School. They are decent texts as far as texts go, but the program *is* very traditional and structured; no surprise to us, we both knew what she was getting into. She's working on Psychology, English (the worst waste of time for her in this school so far. She has learned *so* much more just by reading and writing), Biology, and American History with AS. She also does math from a text (*still* can't give up one of the last vestiges of traditional school), some study of Latin and Spanish, and comparative religions (another interest of hers. Right now she's reading the Bible, some critical essays on the Bible, books on pagan, earth based religions, as well as some reading on Buddhism). She's involved in community service through her UU church and will be starting to volunteer at the local soup kitchen soon. She's very interested in the SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) and I'm hoping to help foster that interest for her. She's definitely done an enormous reading on medieval europe, so the interest has certainly helped with the "school" angle. As I write this, I realize how really difficult it is to tell about our days. I haven't even touched on her outside interests, her "co-op" venture with a couple of her homeschooled friends, or any other of the numerous things that make her the child she is. There are some days that all she does is read, write, and draw. There are other days when she feels compelled to work on text work. Then there are other days when she looks like she trying to do nothing more than sleep, eat, and argue with her sisters (9 and 2). As challenging as it is,I really love this age. We discuss something of interest almost every day. Current events are high on the list of discussion topics, along with *sigh*, boys, primarily entertainment figures, but I realize it's only a matter of time before a more approachable male is the target of her interest. Until then, I'm enjoying still the little girl inside the almost 15 yr. old. It goes awfully fast, doesn't it? Mary ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: This topic is so timely for our family... AUTHOR: Kysa DATE: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 8:46 p.m. Response To: This topic is so timely for our family... Author: Charity (AK) Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 6:18 p.m. > 1. Record-Keeping Cafi's book "And What about College" gives some very good advice about record keeping. The short answer is 180 hours of a particular topic equals 1 credit. Of course, for things like algebra, completing the text is also required. We do mostly unit studies, so the hours are what we count. Or how about > those of you going the portfolio route? Colleges do not like portfolios because then the admission officers have to do a lot more reading. Try to make a transcript as close to a public school one as possible. Do > you grade? If so, how. I have tried grading on effort with my daughter, as I expect my children to redo anything missed, or rewrite papers until they are college quality. For my son, we stated that his gradeless transcript was the equivelent of a 3.5-4.0 grade point average, based on his ACT scores. Dordt College accepted that. > 2. Teaching Beyond Your Own Knowledge > Level: We learn together. My daughter and I are learning Latin together at the same time. > 3. Advanced Placement Programs: Trever took CLEP tests his last year of high school. He received 6 credits English and 3 credits math. He also took a college class while in high school. Skye does not like tests. So far she has taken 2 college classes by correspondence and is planning several more. I will make her take the English CLEP test, as her Verbal PSAT was very high. ======================================== MESSAGE: oh gosh, Tina. It's about 15 pages total...more AUTHOR: Charity (AK) DATE: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 9:04 p.m. Response To: Question for Charity.... Author: Tina Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 7:23 p.m. It's basically a list of skills that I modified from a book by a friend of mine, Kym Wright, homeschooling mother of 8, curriculum writer and generally all around amazing woman. The book has a whole chapter dedicated to teaching children basic life skills. She has these wonderful charts that I just tweaked to fit our own family. We are progressively working our way through the list. The list includes house-cleaning skills, cooking skills, personal grooming, car maintenance, manners, telephone skills, money skills, just everything a child would need to know to be a capable, independent adult. It's much too long to post here and I'm afraid I would probably violate copyright laws by doing so. If you're interested in Kym's book, the URL is below. The list alone was worth the book for me! :) Hope this doesn't sound like a commercial. I've learned a lot from Kym and I guess my gratitude carries me away at times. :) Charity - ======================================== MESSAGE: You have to start over....but with a different approach AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 9:23 p.m. Response To: Pulling kids out of PS in the Middle School Years Author: Martha Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 12:57 p.m. > Do any of you have experience in > pulling a child out of public school > in his middle school years? Have you > had success with overhauling the rebellious > spirit that sometimes is present at > this age? Just looking for help. No experience here but I believe I have an answer for you. One thing I've always said on these boards is that the majority of parents do not realize the incredible amount of influence they lose over their children the minute their child attends school. The teacher becomes the source of answers. The teacher becomes the authority of truth. The teacher spends most of that child's waking hours with him/her. The peers set the standard as to what is acceptable and not acceptable. Mom and dad, although still definite key players, loose ground on many different levels and seem to somehow lose their authority and their influence in many, many areas. Years come and years go... the training of the child gets transfered and it gets placed predominantly in the hands of the teacher and his peers. The good and bad experiences of each day start to shape foundational truths in that child's life. Now you bring that child home. All of the sudden you realize you don't really know him. He has ideas of his own..... ideas that were introduced and molded from his school experience. What do you do? You start over. There is one problem though. You can't start over as if the child was an infant. The child isn't an infant and he is carrying with him years of baggage from his school experience. It is too late to train now. The "window of opportunity" for training has passed. The experiences of school have already trained him. So what can you do? You and your husband need to establish strong ties through a deep relationship. To quote Michael Pearl you must "change your approach from hot demands to respectful persuasion" and "you must win his confidence and *earn* the right to be his counselor" This is done by cultivating a loving, understanding relationship. Anger, screaming, yelling and arguments do absolutely NOTHING to reach this goal. However, please also know that you are over your home and over the children that live in it and while you absolutely must reestablish relationships with your children you cannot let fear and guilt turn you into a victim of your teenager's rebelliousness. You must remember that authority has nothing to do with anger. I'd like to recommend some books to you: "Seven Habits of Highly Effective Families" by Stephen Covey "How to Really Love Your CHild" by Ross Campbell and "How to Really Love Your Teenager" by the same author. Read both of them. These books will show you just HOW to reestablish intimacy and relationships with your children. Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Here is the URL again AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 9:27 p.m. Response To: oh gosh, Tina. It's about 15 pages total...more Author: Charity (AK) Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 9:04 p.m. For "Living Life With Purpose" http://www.openarmsmagazine.com/lifeonpurpose.htm You must include URL's in the body of the message or they won't transfer when we make this discussion into a permanent digest. :-) ======================================== MESSAGE: Best Reasons To Homeschool Through High School AUTHOR: Cafi DATE: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 9:32 p.m. What ARE the best reasons to homeschool through high school? Cafi in CA ======================================== MESSAGE: Do read "And What About College" AUTHOR: Mary DATE: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 9:49 p.m. This is our ninth year at homeschooling. The last few years made me a little nervous again since he was getting older. The same old questions haunted me wether we were doing enough. I was pleasantly surprised though that he has taken on more and more responsibility with his education and done much more on his own. I have a younger boy also, so we are almost always doing something. Each day we always get our basics in and then go from there. I could not imagine sending him off to school now any more than I could have sent him off for kindegarten. We have too much fun together and he will be leaving in just a few short years. His only complaint about not attending school is he cannot participate in the local school sports. He may finish h.s. early and attend college and try for one of their teams. He does play on some city leagues. Do get a copy of Cafi's book- And What About College? Wether you are planning on college or not I think it is a wonderful handbook to help you feel not so intimidated about middle and high school years. We have friends who attended a seminar Cafi did in Norwalk, Oh. a few years ago and her ideas really are helpful. Mary ======================================== MESSAGE: College - Early & Free! AUTHOR: Lori DATE: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 10:15 p.m. Response To: Do read "And What About College" Author: Mary Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 9:49 p.m. I wonder how many families, homeschooled and otherwise, realize that our kids can do their Junior and Senior years of high school at a state college - all expenses paid! In other words, they are fulfilling high-school subject requirements at a college level and also getting college credit toward a degree at the same time. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has alread taken advantage of this. A local college admissions director tells me there is one glitch with homeschoolers --- you must be regestered with a high school first. She told me '08' schools also qualify although I am not sure what those are as of yet. Anyone who knows more about this, please respond. Thank you. ======================================== MESSAGE: Typical Day AUTHOR: Susan M DATE: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 11:20 p.m. Response To: So, what is it like? Author: Debra Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 5:29 p.m. So what is a typical day for a > middle schooler? I would like to hear > what some of you are doing. Our days are a bit different because our boys take some classes at PS. M-W-F my high schooler is at the local high school from 7:30-12:30, taking chemistry, pre-calculus, and computer programming. On T-Th he is home, so that is when he and my middle schooler do unit studies together. So...M-W-F for my 6th grader: Drag him out of bed by 8:30. Read to him from our chosen read-aloud while he eats breakfast--we just finished The Phantom Tollbooth and are starting The Princess and the Goblin. Then we do science (we've just started Charity's unit study on Habitats, combining it with the Boy Scout environmental science merit badge requirements). Then pre-algebra, or Math:A Humand Endeavor, or something from one of our math computer programs, and perhaps a page from Mental Math for Junior High. Then a short grammar lesson or some spelling, followed by writing of his choice and/or reading. We might also include thinking skills, or typing, or something else...(Actually my son usually chooses the order to do the subjects in...) On T-Th, the schedule is different: We try to start by 8:30, but seldom succeed. We begin with Bible Study, followed sometimes by practical skills. Then we get into the unit study--history-based. We are presently working on world history. This time slot includes read aloud, timeline work, independent reading, map work, arts and crafts, and sometimes music. My 15 yr old is doing Format Writing, and my younger one does chosen writing again. We also have a short grammar exercise--something like Daily Grams. Reading is often related to our history study. The older boy just read Oedipus the King, for example. He also does Spanish independently, and Drawing. My middle schooler also goes to the local school for both 6th grade band and 7th/8th grade band--he just got moved up and is needed in both. This trimester only he is taking PE, at his request. The boys are also involved in Boy Scouts, study karate, and the younger one plays soccer and baseball in their respective seasons. My older one just competed in the Regional Science Bowl with a team from the high school. We do a lot together, because that is what we like to do, but they boys can work independently when I need them to. Susan M ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: College - Early & Free! AUTHOR: Susan M DATE: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 11:25 p.m. Response To: College - Early & Free! Author: Lori Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 10:15 p.m. > I wonder how many families, homeschooled > and otherwise, realize that our kids > can do their Junior and Senior years > of high school at a state college - > all expenses paid! I don't what state you are in--this sounds wonderful. But I know you can not do it where I live, in Oregon. Even registered high school students who take college courses must pay their own way. Susan M ======================================== MESSAGE: Encouraging the spirit without fostering rebellion.... AUTHOR: PattiC DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 2:13 a.m. Response To: Pulling kids out of PS in the Middle School Years Author: Martha Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 12:57 p.m. First of all, let me say I went to a bunch of seminars at a wonderful homeschooling conference ( the Link in California) given by Cafi and others, was wonderfully advised by others on this board and elsewhere, plus read widely before I started SO what we did was based on the kind wisdom of others and knowledge of my own family. First of all, we live outside the US in a very isolated geographical region and are a bit apart from the locals. Our family has always been the primary social group for our kids even when they were in ps ( as is for the majority of their peers here through about age 11). So I think that while my kids were influenced by peer pressure, they weren't ruled by it yet and we had a closer, less adversarial relationship than some folks can easily manage in the States. Our eldest (6-7th US grade level) was miserable in school. He wasn't learning and his teachers had 0 compassion for him and tons of other issues were going on. He was frustrated and angry and hated himself, his life etc., but loved his friends and was very popular so didn't want to quit school until the end of the year ( but was very open to the idea of homeschooling "next school year"). He NEVER acted out at school but was coming home and dumping his misery on all of us. After having gazillions of meetings with the teacher and hitting a brick wall, I basically started unschooling and deschooling him while he finished the year. At this point he was literally bringing home 5 hours + of homework per day, we started letting him go through it to see if he could find anything he would like to go over or bother with. I warned the teacher- who by now knew I meant business. He basically quit memorizing "towards the test" and only finished some of the work he hadn't finished in class, then he filtered through all the mindless busy work cr*% to see if there was anything that he needed for what they would learn/do next and skipped the rest ( doing max 1 hour but usually 20 minutes per night). (BTW, his grade point average went up in practically all subjects even considering the 0's in incomplete work he was accumulating). So I guess I am saying we gave him the power and courage to think for himself and say, this...( whatever) is important and valuable to my education, that is not. Anything he DID do though had to be done properly. So basically we gave him freedom under his chosen parameters. Next, during the summer, we just relaxed and focused on doing things together, helping him to regain confidence in himself. For schoolwork for the autumn, we picked out TOGETHER a very relaxed and appealing course of study with an enormous amount of consideration towards the boys interests and learning styles . By fall, the boys ( we decided to keep out my would-be 5/4th grader too) were excited about starting and doing something interesting. We "started slow, then eased up " per Cafi's advice in a seminar I attended. :-) We do about 2 hours of bookwork per day, not counting their time reading. As they were switching the language they use for school work, we had a bit of remedial work to go through with me eldest but we are all happy and satisfied with the way our year has gone.The kids are very happy, inquisitive and my eldest loves himself again. :-) Now a bit of personal advice from my own experience ( to be taken or left at will ). I think the number one issue at first is, as always, your relationship. Once you establish the rapport you want, the rest will follow. If things have gotten lost in the shuffle between ps and activities; deschool, relax and sort out your lives THEN worry about academics. My kids might be trying at times, but I feel like it is important to keep a complete CLEAR separation between family discipline issues and educational issues. If a kid is acting up during adolescence , don't be afraid to intervene because he is detoxing etc. He/she is still your child and is acting up because of the age, personal problems etc. , not because we are homeschoolers. He may be detoxing/deschooling/decompressing but that is no reason to let yourself be treated badly and without respect!!!!Don't mix your apples and peaches and confuse the issues. As long as you remain steady and are your child's friend and parent, offering them respect while demanding/earning it for yourself I find you won't have significant trouble developing a good atmosphere. Once or twice my eldest got nasty and smart with me and we stopped working IMMEDIATELY till he got himself sorted out and could treat everyone with respect. He was in trouble for the way he acted, not because it had to do with schoolwork. I guess what I am saying is avoid like all heck the trap of making the schoolwork a divisive issue. Attitude is attitude whatever it is about. We set the context right away and haven't had much trouble at all with guiding our kids to view that their education is up to them now ( with mom's help and encouragement) and that their training and behaviour is up to us as a family. That said, my kids do have the right to decide how they do about 60% of their work, I feel they have the right, I want them to feel responsible for themselves and their education. We do about 2 hours of bookwork per day, not counting their time reading. We basically do math, and language arts (reading, writing and some grammar) in unit study form with as many hands on projects as we can manage- we are studying early US history this year.We do science one day a week. As they were switching the language they use for school work, we had a bit of remedial work to go through with my eldest but we are all happy and extremely satisfied with the way our year has gone. I do not allow carte blanche with the tv or computer games, they aren't allowed at all til it is dark outside and no Nintendo at all except for the weekends ( and even then it is only between 5 and 6pm). I find that also helps to lower the stress level of our home and permits the kids to relax and find other interesting things to do with their time. My basic motto is........ Set firm parameters, then give them a lot of liberty within those, encouraging their spirit while hopefully not fostering any rebellion. Patti( mom of two adolescent boys and still smiling!!!!!!) > ======================================== MESSAGE: Charity, What i would like to know is -What projects does your son work on for an hour..how do they figure out what they want to do? TIA!!nt AUTHOR: Tracey DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 4:53 a.m. Response To: oh gosh, Tina. It's about 15 pages total...more Author: Charity (AK) Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 9:04 p.m. > It's basically a list of skills > that I modified from a book by a friend > of mine, Kym Wright, homeschooling mother > of 8, curriculum writer and generally > all around amazing woman. The book has > a whole chapter dedicated to teaching > children basic life skills. She has > these wonderful charts that I just tweaked > to fit our own family. We are progressively > working our way through the list. The > list includes house-cleaning skills, > cooking skills, personal grooming, car > maintenance, manners, telephone skills, > money skills, just everything a child > would need to know to be a capable, > independent adult. > It's much too long to post here > and I'm afraid I would probably violate > copyright laws by doing so. If you're > interested in Kym's book, the URL is > below. > The list alone was worth the book > for me! :) Hope this doesn't sound like > a commercial. I've learned a lot from > Kym and I guess my gratitude carries > me away at times. :) > Charity - > ======================================== MESSAGE: I'm guessing Minnesota AUTHOR: Kysa DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 5:40 a.m. Response To: College - Early & Free! Author: Lori Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 10:15 p.m. You are indeed lucky, but few of us get that opportunity. I just wrote a recommendation for a young lady who comes to my house for science lab activities to go to a Minnesota college for the last two years of high school. The admission director is giving the family a hard time because he has had some students (from public school) that did poorly. It is a great idea, and most home schooled students should do very well. I live in South Dakota (just 20 miles away) and we don't even have a single community college. My son took a class at the nearest university at age 16, but it was like pulling hens teeth to get him in. Once enrolled in the class (at our expense) he could not even get a library card for the university library because he was under 18! Luckily I work there and have libary privileges. My daughter has taken correspondence courses from a school in another state because that is cheaper than attended the one next door at in-state tution. ======================================== MESSAGE: A Partial Book List for Grades 5-8 AUTHOR: Barb K (Hs-ing in Southern Maine) DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 6:17 a.m. I'm sure that many of you will have favorite books to add to this list... But, these are some that I've found especially good for the "Middle School Years" (Grades 5-8). If anyone is interested in my Suggested Reading List for High Schoolers, just let me know. But, the combined efforts of many of you ladies (and a few dads, too!) should provide us with a good working list of literary choices to use with our Middle Schoolers! Here goes: Any of the "Dear America" series books are good (ie. "When will This Cruel War Be Over?" and "Journey to the New World" and others) "Hitty: Her First Hundred Years" by Rachel Field (gr. 4-6) "All-of-a-Kind Family" by Sydney Taylor (there are several sequels to this book, too) "Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry" By Mildred Taylor "North to Freedom" by Anne Holm "Across Five Aprils" By Irene Hunt "Amos Fortune, Free Man" by Elizabeth Yates (gr. 4-8) "Brady" by Jean Fritz "Christmas Surprise" by Ruth Nulton Moore "Door in the Wall" by Marguerite DeAngeli "House of Sixty Fathers" by Meindert DeJong "Indian Captive" by Lois Lenski "Journey to America" by Sonia Levitin "Guns for General Washington" By Seymour Reit "Constance" by Patricia Clapp "Sarah Bishop" by Scott O'Dell (Gr. 7 and up; any of Scott O'Dell's books would be good, including "Island of the Blue Dolphins" and others) Any of the "Trailblazer Books" by various authors, but including titles like "Danger on the Flying Trapeze" about Dwight L. Moody; or, Escape from Slave Traders" about David Livingstone; or, Imprisoned in the Golden City" about Adoniram and Ann Judson. All of these are in the gr. 4-8 level, and are generally available through your Christian bookstore. Also in Christian bookstores, ANY of Patricia St. John's books, including: "Treasures of the Snow," "Star of Light," and "The Tanglewoods' Secret" and others. ANY of the "Anne of Green Gables" series by L. M. Montgomery. "Kidnapped" or "Treasure Island" by Robert Louis Stevenson (this would apply all the way through High school) "Blue Willow" by Doris Gates "Caddie Woodlawn" by Carol Ryrie Brink "The Incredible Journey" by Sheila Burnford "Miracles on Maple Hill" by Virginia Sorenson "Old Yeller" by Fred Gibson "Strawberry Girl" by Lois Lenski (gr. 4-8) "Where the Red Fern Grows" by Wilson Rawls "The Yearling" By Marjorie K. Rawlings. "Anne Frank: Diary of a Young Girl" By Anne Frank "The Red Badge of Courage" by Stephen Crane "Call of the Wild" By Jack London "Huckleberry Finn" By Mark Twain "The True Confessions of Charlotte Doyle" by Avi "Shiloh" by P. Naylor "My Side of the Mountain" by Jean George "A Wrinkle in Time" by Margaret L'Engle "The Pushcart War" by Jean Merrill "Bridge to Terebithia" by K. Paterson Well... This should get you started. Some of these books can carry over into high school; and, some of your children may be able to handles some of these books while they're still in elementary school. A word of caution...Although I have read all of the books listed here, don't just take anybody's word that a "recommended" book is appropriate for use in YOUR family/household! As with any books you choose for your children, you'll want to preview these books, to be sure that they truly are appropriate for your family situation. Ok, folks...can we add to this list? I know I always leave out something truly wonderful! Keep the suggestions coming! (Great topic for the month, BTW!) B.K. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Best Reasons To Homeschool Through High School AUTHOR: Janie G. DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 7:05 a.m. Response To: Best Reasons To Homeschool Through High School Author: Cafi Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 9:32 p.m. This may be coming from a little different perspective, because we only started homeschooling in high school. But one of the big pluses I have seen is, as opposed to many teens pulling away from family/parents and discounting parents' attitudes/philosophies, I have seen our son grow closer to the family and actually ask for our opinions! I love being able to discuss news events, etc. based on our value system and life experience rather than a classroom teacher getting "first crack" at it. (BTW, when I was in school, I don't recall teachers getting on their soapbox or putting forth their personal opinions on issues - but I have seen this occur many times lately in our public school: not to sound prejudicial, but I really don't appreciate a 20-something teacher espousing his personal take on college life, etc. - (my son actually had a teacher tell the classroom: "you don't really need to attend all of your college classes and you can still pass.") We still have our moments of the typical adolescent/parent battles, but they are fewer. It's wonderful to have these last few years together watching my sons become thinking, reasoning adults and to feel more a part of it than before. I think of homeschooling as bringing our son back to the family for a chance to mature and grow in a safe, measured way -- where he can pursue interests and endeavors when HE feels ready to. (he turns 16 in a few weeks and will likely wait a few months before getting his driver's license: if he were still in public school, I feel that there would be an exterior drive to GET THAT license even though he truly isn't ready to). > What ARE the best reasons to homeschool > through high school? > Cafi in CA ======================================== MESSAGE: Time! AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 7:16 a.m. Response To: Best Reasons To Homeschool Through High School Author: Cafi Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 9:32 p.m. Hey, Cafi! Good to see your name over here. I hope I don't end up sounding like a one-note symphony this month, but I'd venture to say the primary benefit of homeschooling teens is that it gives them TIME -- time to do what they want to do, time with their family, time with their friends, time to read (!), time to work at meaningful jobs (underline meaningful, there), time to figure out what they want to do with their lives. We've been freed from the arbitrary schedules of school. Ariel and Laurel both have had a chance to devote much of their time to apprenticeships of one kind or another -- time that wouldn't have been available to them if they'd been stuck in the classroom all day and then snowed under with homework every evening. Of course, their lives were/are still busy -- occasionally hectic -- but their busy-ness has been of their own making. They're the ones in control of their schedules. As a result, I believe they're much more empowered people than I was at their age(s). They know what they want and have an idea of how to go about getting it. I couldn't have said that when I was a teen...I'm afraid I was clueless. Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: This topic is so timely for our family... AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 8:02 a.m. Response To: This topic is so timely for our family... Author: Charity (AK) Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 6:18 p.m. Hi, Charity-- You'll probably get a wide range of answers to these questions, which just goes to show how much variation is possible in this business. I hope you'll keep that in mind, because you may come up with methods of your own that are better (for you and your kids) than anything the rest of us have done. That said, here's how we've handled things at our house... > 1. Record-Keeping Logistics for > the College Bound: I'd love to hear > from those of you who have found an > efficient way to build transcripts. > What do you put on transcripts? How > you convert hours spent in studies into > carnegie units or credits? Keeping records -- ANY kind of records -- is the first step, of course. Fancy or plain, the important thing is to have something to work with when the time comes to create those transcripts. Our recordkeeping wasn't always terribly formal, but I recommend taking frequent notes about what's going on. If you don't write it down, you forget it. I've never worried about Carnegie units or hours. I know that might be an important issue for some, but in our own case it was never a concern. Before you pull your hair out over that sort of thing, make sure you actually NEED them for what your children plan to do. My oldest went straight to college without a high school diploma, and no one ever asked about her units, credits, or hours. > Do you grade? Nope. No grades here. And none of the colleges Ariel applied to blinked an eye. Her transcript didn't mention grades at all, except to say they weren't part of our program. > 2. Teaching Beyond Your Own Knowledge > Level: How do you tutor your children > when they have surpassed your own academic > limits? I know that they work more independently > as they get older, but they STILL need > some type of instructions and feedback, > don't they? How expensive is it to have > a tutor make house calls? :) Instructions and feedback? I guess it depends. My 16-year-old has decided to read The Double Helix this month because her best friend is taking a college course in bio-anthropology -- and it includes a lot of DNA stuff. Laurel figures this would be a good time to read the book, since she'll have a "discussion partner" available. Ariel found a no-charge chemistry tutor who was homeschooling her own daughter that year and welcomed the idea of having another student. A couple of years ago, a homeschooled boy asked me to tutor him in writing. He wanted feedback on his style and organization before he got started on his college application essays, and I was happy to do it for free. In fact, I was honored. He was an extremely bright kid, I liked him and his family, and I knew they didn't have extra money to shell out for tutors. I'm sure you've already read Homeschooling for Excellence (David & Micki Colfax), but this might be a good time to read it again, if you're in need of reassurance that children can adequately teach themselves in subject areas that go beyond their parents' proficiency. > 3. Advanced Placement Programs: > I received quite a bit of college credit > through my HS AP programs. It saved > me some pretty pennies and I'd like > to point my son in the same direction. > Anyone out there using the AP programs? We haven't done that ourselves, but keep in mind that merit scholarships and college grants can save pretty pennies, too. There's more than one way to skin a cat, as we say here in the South. I tried to get my daughter interesting in taking some of the CLEP tests in order to place out of college credits, but she chose not to go that route...and as it developed, she ended up at a college which doesn't operate on the credit system, anyway. I guess Mom doesn't always know best, huh? These homeschooled kids of ours tend to fly off in directions we never dreamed of. Speaking for myself, I'm always amazed by their "wing power." Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: The rebellious spirit AUTHOR: Susan DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 8:14 a.m. Response To: The rebellious spirit Author: Cerelle Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 2:10 p.m. Cerelle, Well said, truly eloquent. I am one of those who has judged other parents for being more "Friends" than "parents" with their kids, but I agree totally with your views on this. I guess what I have always meant when I would say "parents should be parents not friends" is that there are times when you have to be firm and stick to it, even if your child "hates" you for a while. Many parents in my experience are unwilling to be this firm, and kids are growing up all over the place with no concept of boundaries--their own or anyone else's. I guess there is often a fine line there, eh? ======================================== MESSAGE: That's what I always thought, too... AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 8:15 a.m. Response To: Re: This topic is so timely for our family... Author: Kysa Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 8:46 p.m. Kysa wrote: > Colleges do not like portfolios > because then the admission officers > have to do a lot more reading. Try to > make a transcript as close to a public > school one as possible. What we discovered, in our own case, was that some colleges don't mind -- and even PREFER -- reading through long transcripts or portfolios in order to get a better idea of what a homeschooled applicant is like. Ariel's transcript was about as different from a public school transcript as it could possibly be. (Ask Cafi -- she's seen it, and I'm sure she'll agree.) The admissions officers loved it (much to my surprise). Here's the deal: When a college is really interested in a particular applicant, they're willing to spend the extra time and effort to evaluate that student. This may not be as true at some of the larger universities, but the smaller, liberal arts schools tend to be pretty open to unconventional application packages. My advice is to talk to admissions people early and often to find out what they want. They usually have slightly different procedures for homeschooled applicants, and it's good to find out about those ahead of time and plan accordingly. Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: sorry, failed cut and paste 101 AUTHOR: PattiC DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 9:18 a.m. Response To: Encouraging the spirit without fostering rebellion.... Author: PattiC Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 2:13 a.m. should read First of all, let me say I went to a bunch of seminars at a wonderful homeschooling conference ( the Link in California) given by Cafi and others, was wonderfully advised by others on this board and elsewhere, plus read widely before I started SO what we did was based on the kind wisdom of others and knowledge of my own family. We live outside the US in a very isolated geographical region and are a bit apart from the locals. Our family has always been the primary social group for our kids even when they were in ps ( as is for the majority of their peers here through about age 11). So I think that while my kids were influenced by peer pressure, they weren't ruled by it yet and we had a closer, less adversarial relationship than some folks can easily manage in the States. Our eldest (6-7th US grade level) was miserable in school. He wasn't learning and his teachers had 0 compassion for him and tons of other issues were going on. He was frustrated and angry and hated himself, his life etc., but loved his friends and was very popular so didn't want to quit school until the end of the year ( but was very open to the idea of homeschooling "next school year"). He NEVER acted out at school but was coming home and dumping his misery on all of us. After having gazillions of meetings with the teacher and hitting a brick wall, I basically started unschooling and deschooling him while he finished the year. At this point he was literally bringing home 5 hours + of homework per day, we started letting him go through it to see if he could find anything he would like to go over or bother with. I warned the teacher- who by now knew I meant business. He basically quit memorizing "towards the test" and only finished some of the work he hadn't finished in class, then he filtered through all the mindless busy work cr*% to see if there was anything that he needed for what they would learn/do next and skipped the rest ( doing max 1 hour but usually 20 minutes per night). (BTW, his grade point average went up in practically all subjects even considering the 0's in incomplete work he was accumulating). So I guess I am saying we gave him the power and courage to think for himself and say, this...( whatever) is important and valuable to my education, that is not. Anything he DID do though had to be done properly. So basically we gave him freedom under his chosen parameters. Next, during the summer, we just relaxed and focused on doing things together, helping him to regain confidence in himself. For schoolwork for the autumn, we picked out TOGETHER a very relaxed and appealing course of study with an enormous amount of consideration towards the boys interests and learning styles . By fall, the boys ( we decided to keep out my would-be 5/4th grader too) were excited about starting and doing something interesting. We "started slow, then eased up " per Cafi's advice in a seminar I attended. :-) We do about 2 hours of bookwork per day, not counting their time reading. As they were switching the language they use for school work, we had a bit of remedial work to go through with me eldest but we are all happy and satisfied with the way our year has gone.The kids are very happy, inquisitive and my eldest loves himself again. :-) Now a bit of personal advice from my own experience ( to be taken or left at will ). I think the number one issue at first is, as always, your relationship. Once you establish the rapport you want, the rest will follow. If things have gotten lost in the shuffle between ps and activities; deschool, relax and sort out your lives THEN worry about academics. My kids might be trying at times, but I feel like it is important to keep a complete CLEAR separation between family discipline issues and educational issues. If a kid is acting up during adolescence , don't be afraid to intervene because he is detoxing etc. He/she is still your child and is acting up because of the age, personal problems etc. , not because we are homeschoolers. He may be detoxing/deschooling/decompressing but that is no reason to let yourself be treated badly and without respect!!!!Don't mix your apples and peaches and confuse the issues. As long as you remain steady and are your child's friend and parent, offering them respect while demanding/earning it for yourself I find you won't have significant trouble developing a good atmosphere. Once or twice my eldest got nasty and smart with me and we stopped working IMMEDIATELY till he got himself sorted out and could treat everyone with respect. He was in trouble for the way he acted, not because it had to do with schoolwork. I guess what I am saying is avoid like all heck the trap of making the schoolwork a divisive issue. Attitude is attitude whatever it is about. We set the context right away and haven't had much trouble at all with guiding our kids to view that their education is up to them now ( with mom's help and encouragement) and that their training and behaviour is up to us as a family. That said, my kids do have the right to decide how they do about 60% of their work, I feel they have the right, I want them to feel responsible for themselves and their education. I do not allow carte blanche with the tv or computer games, they aren't allowed at all til it is dark outside and no Nintendo at all except for the weekends ( and even then it is only between 5 and 6pm). I find that also helps to lower the stress level of our home and permits the kids to relax and find other interesting things to do with their time. My basic motto is........ Set firm parameters, then give them a lot of liberty within those, encouraging their spirit while hopefully not fostering any rebellion. Patti( mom of two adolescent boys and still smiling!!!!!!) ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: The rebellious spirit AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 9:18 a.m. Response To: Re: The rebellious spirit Author: Susan Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 8:14 a.m. Susan, You're right about the fine line. I think I know that line like the back of my hand, because I've been walking it for years. ;-) What we so often forget is that peers DO set limits and frequently establish rigid boundaries around what's OK and what's not OK. Kids are judged -- sometimes harshly -- and scolded and punished by their peers if they step beyond those boundaries. In spite of that, adults tend to think of a peer group as an "anything goes" phenonmenon. Not so! Peer relationships are chock-full of taboos and consequences. When parents fail to set limits, they're not even allowing themselves the power that a peer group wields. Isn't that wacky? A person will cheerfully obey the taboos of the particular peer group that promises to stand by him through thick and thin, and he'll accept the censure of that peer group when he steps outside its boundaries. It takes a cataclysm of some sort to make a child reject his peer group -- either the group rejects HIM first (and this frequently happens in families, sad to say), or he sees that his peer group is in some way an impediment to his happiness and welfare (this can happen in families, too), or he believes another group can offer him better protection or a more complete sense of belonging (and when he's in school all day, surrounded by threats of various kinds, his family can't always be of much help to him). I don't mean to imply that everyone is a slave to one peer group or another. There are certainly some independent spirits who operate outside a group of any kind. But nearly all of us are born into a group we call the "family," and it's there our allegiance begins. I think the allegiance STAYS there, too, unless something happens to disrupt the natural flow of affection between family members. Well, I didn't mean to go on this long with my sociology rant. I guess the thing that has always bothered me about the parent vs. friend dichotomy is that it implies parents shouldn't act friendly...and that friends don't make rules or set limits. Ha! I couldn't disagree more. Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Each kid made a list to help them when stuck... AUTHOR: Charity (AK) DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 9:30 a.m. Response To: Charity, What i would like to know is -What projects does your son work on for an hour..how do they figure out what they want to do? TIA!!nt Author: Tracey Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 4:53 a.m. Caleb's list includes: Designing military strategies - I know this sounds odd, but Caleb's passion is military science. His ultimate dream is to go to Westpoint. So one of his favorite things to do during project time is to design military battle strategies in his Project Notebook. Or he will sketch out the strategies of famous battles of the past. Woodworking - He uses some of his Dad's equipment (power equipment with assistance) to create different items. His latest project was a replica of some famous rifle he had researched. Computer Research - He and his father plan to build a computer from scratch to learn computer science. So sometimes he researches for this project and works on the "shopping list" they'll need. Then he goes to Ebay and prices items to get estimates. Anyway...I hope this short list gives you some idea of what I mean by Project Time. Really any child who has an interest of any sort needs time to pursue these things. We just protect that time and insist on it. Otherwise when they are restless it is too easy to drift to the Nintendo rather than focus on something productive. Charity ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: College - Early & Free! AUTHOR: Debra DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 1:04 p.m. Response To: College - Early & Free! Author: Lori Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 10:15 p.m. > I wonder how many families, homeschooled > and otherwise, realize that our kids > can do their Junior and Senior years > of high school at a state college - > all expenses paid! I am planning on my girls starting college classes at age 15 or 16. I don't know the program here in Indiana for cost, but my girls are only 5 now (twins) so whatever is in place now can change in 10 years. But I think it is a good idea for them to go and start taking college credit classes early so they can spend more time getting thier degree and participating in some of the many wonderful opportunities on campus (like I worked on the nightly newscast at my college's PBS station). ======================================== MESSAGE: Free College? AUTHOR: Lori DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 1:50 p.m. Just for information purposes, I live in Ohio. I didn't realize the free college for high school juniors and seniors wasn't available in every state. I wonder what other states it is available in? ======================================== MESSAGE: Freeing Our Kids To Love Learning AUTHOR: Lori DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 2:05 p.m. Response To: Encouraging the spirit without fostering rebellion.... Author: PattiC Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 2:13 a.m. Very interesting method of getting your kids back on track to actually ENJOY learning again. I guess sometimes we're afraid to let certain academics drop for a time while we figure out what's best for our child's learning style. That's where I am now. I have a boy turning 13 who is EXTREMELY strong-willed and gives me grief everyday all day long. One thing I see that I need to do is give him more freedom in choosing what interests him and then cover the academics within that field of interest. I told him that this summer he can choose to create his own 'video game'. He won't actually be putting it in the form of a game that can really be played. But he can use his art skills to draw characters, his English skills to create an environment and story-line, etc. He sounded very interested in doing this. I told him if it works well for the summer at a leisurely pace, we could try to do similar things during the regular school year. I guess the bottom line is we don't have to be the public school at home --- we can loosen up and be creative. And let our kids have some say in what and how they learn. Comments? ======================================== MESSAGE: Good books AUTHOR: Beverly Johnson DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 3:08 p.m. I am wondering if you all think that reading a good book to a middle school child who hates reading or getting good books - classics and the like as well as enjoyable books on tape - can be used to encourage a child to read? My niece is 14 and has been in special ed reading since grade 1 - she hates to rad but does do it when I demand it but I can tell she is not getting enthused about it. I have been reading to her and encouraging her to read a chapter now and then and it seems to be working as long as it is something she is interested in. My question - am I setting a bad example for her - that she does not have to read? I read constantly and always have my nose in a book. At the persent time we have one book we are reading together an one I am reading on my own. She is reading nothing on her own except what I demand for reading comprehension. Am I doing wrong do you think? I believe that if you can get a child interested in finding out what is going on in a story, that you can somehow capture his love of reading??????????? Bev ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Good books AUTHOR: Barb K (Hs-ing in Southern Maine) DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 4:03 p.m. Response To: Good books Author: Beverly Johnson Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 3:08 p.m. Bev, I still am one of those who believes that reading aloud is a GREAT thing to do -- even if the kids are teens! I grew up with being read to (long car trips to GRandma's house were especially memorable times, as we read things like "Great Expectations" and "The Deerslayer" and others like it). So, I would advise that you DO continue reading aloud to your niece. Choose exciting books. Since she's 14, you might want to start with one of these: "Island of the Blue Dolphins" by Scott O'Dell; "My Side of the Mountain" by Jean George; "Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH" by R.C. O'Brien; "A Wrinkle in Time" by Madeleine L'Engle; "Robinson Crusoe" By Daniel Defoe; "The Swiss Family Robinson" By Johann Wyss... THAT said, I would also do this... In the part of your day when YOU are reading silently, you should require HER to also be reading silently. Take her to the library or the book store, and allow her to pick out several books that INTEREST her (reading level is irrelevant for the time being -- just getting her to read is important) -- so it may be that she chooses a Babysitters Club book, or another book in a series. If books seem overwhelming to her, try some of the "Classics" that are now available in comic book form! That may help to jump-start her reading on her own! Watch the genre she picks from the most and encourage her silent reading to come from that genre (historical fiction, series books, nonfiction, comedy/humor, horse stories, mysteries, poetry, etc.) Once she's gotten through a bunch of books in one genre, you can start suggesting some you think she might like in other genre. Try it... It'll take some time, but be patient. The silent reading really does do a lot to boost the reluctant reader's confidence. You may want to continue with having her do some reading to you aloud, so that you'll be sure that she understands what she's reading, and doesn't have continued problems with basic phonics. But, specifically...YES! Do keep reading to her. I hope this helps you a little. B.K. ======================================== MESSAGE: Out of the mouths of admission officers... AUTHOR: Kysa DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 4:20 p.m. Response To: That's what I always thought, too... Author: Cerelle Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 8:15 a.m. > Ariel's transcript was about as > different from a public school transcript > as it could possibly be. > Here's the deal: When a college > is really interested in a particular > applicant, they're willing to spend > the extra time and effort to evaluate > that student. > the smaller, liberal arts schools > tend to be pretty open to unconventional > application packages. My advice is to > talk to admissions people early and > often to find out what they want. They > usually have slightly different procedures > for homeschooled applicants, and it's > good to find out about those ahead of > time and plan accordingly. I'm glad this worked for you, but I do note that you checked ahead of time and that is CRITICAL. I have a cousin and two friends that are admissions officers...2 at small schools one at the states largest public school. Here is what they say. The procedure starts with the first piece of info they recieve from you, often you SAT/ACT scores. The school starts a file on you. On the outside of this file will be your name and a list of the application materials required. As they receive stuff, they check off the list. This part is usually done by general office staff and often by work study students. If they do not recognize your portfolio in place of a transcript, your file will remain "incomplete". Until it is listed as complete, the admission officers will not see it. I still recommend having a sheet of paper on the front of a portfolio that lists classes the same way a public school transcript does. Some 18 y/o student who has never heard of homeschooling may be making the decision that your file is still missing a transcript. My cousin, admissions officer at a small (2500) private liberal arts school in PA, tells about the first homeschool student that applied there. He turned in a portfolio that bore NO resemblence to a transcript. The other admissions officer refused to read it. Kathy called me, and asked all kinds of questions because she knew I homeschooled. The student was lucky that Kathy was interested. If he had to depend on her co-worker, he would never have been considered. The moral of this tale is: If you choose to turn in a portfolio, be VERY certain ahead of time that the officers are aware of it and what you are turning in. If you deal directly with the admissions officer, you will be okay. If a portfolio goes through the regular process, you may be rejected simply because some student worker didn't recognize what you provided. My son turned in a very normal looking transcript--even to a school that recruits home schooled students. When he was being interviewd for scholarships is when he provided additional information about what he had done in high school. Kysa ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Good books AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 4:23 p.m. Response To: Good books Author: Beverly Johnson Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 3:08 p.m. Beverly, I still read aloud to my 13-year-old nearly every day. He's not a reluctant reader, but we both enjoy the read-aloud times (beats TV!), and I like to think I'm broadening his horizons by getting him hooked on authors and genres he might not have chosen on his own at this stage of the game. The goal, I would think, in dealing with a kid who doesn't enjoy reading, is to show her how wonderful books can be. That's the big hurdle. Once she "gets" it -- that books are a terrific adventure -- then all you have to worry about is the mechanics. And the mechanics should be easier for her to master once she's been enticed by the magic of good writing. So yeah -- go for it! Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: I'll join you in a duet, Cerelle! AUTHOR: Joyce U. DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 4:24 p.m. Response To: Time! Author: Cerelle Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 7:16 a.m. I couldn't agree with you more. I love the time my dds and I have. My 16 y/o is growing into such a delightful, mature young woman and I love to see it. I'll be honest, I worry sometimes whether academically she'll do OK. I hear about so many homeschooling kids who are excelling and doing fantastic things that I feel a bit intimitated by it all. Yet, I see a lovely woman emerging and have to think that with her character intact, she will do OK at what she desires to pursue in the future. Joyce U. > Hey, Cafi! Good to see your name > over here. > I hope I don't end up sounding > like a one-note symphony this month, > but I'd venture to say the primary benefit > of homeschooling teens is that it gives > them TIME -- time to do what they want > to do, time with their family, time > with their friends, time to read (!), > time to work at meaningful jobs (underline > meaningful, there), time to figure out > what they want to do with their lives. > > We've been freed from the arbitrary > schedules of school. Ariel and Laurel > both have had a chance to devote much > of their time to apprenticeships of > one kind or another -- time that wouldn't > have been available to them if they'd > been stuck in the classroom all day > and then snowed under with homework > every evening. Of course, their lives > were/are still busy -- occasionally > hectic -- but their busy-ness has been > of their own making. They're the ones > in control of their schedules. > As a result, I believe they're > much more empowered people than I was > at their age(s). They know what they > want and have an idea of how to go about > getting it. I couldn't have said that > when I was a teen...I'm afraid I was > clueless. > Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: NOT South Dakota AUTHOR: Kysa DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 4:28 p.m. Response To: Free College? Author: Lori Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 1:50 p.m. NOTHING about higher ed in South Dakota is free. Students pay the highest percentage of the cost of any state--still lower than many states, but students pick up more than 50% of the tab. We have NO community colleges, and vo-tech schools reject home schooled students until they have a GED, which home schooled students are barred from getting prior to age 18. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Free College? AUTHOR: Joyce U. DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 4:29 p.m. Response To: Free College? Author: Lori Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 1:50 p.m. In Calif., if the student is in high school (it can be a home school) and attending a community college, he/she does not have ot pay the fees. However, when that student takes their GED or CHSPE or 'graduates' from their home school, they must start paying the same fees as other college students. > Just for information purposes, > I live in Ohio. I didn't realize the > free college for high school juniors > and seniors wasn't available in every > state. I wonder what other states it > is available in? ======================================== MESSAGE: Florida has free college for high schoolers. (nt) AUTHOR: Gina DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 4:41 p.m. Response To: Free College? Author: Lori Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 1:50 p.m. Florida has free college for high schoolers. (nt) ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Out of the mouths of admission officers... AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 4:53 p.m. Response To: Out of the mouths of admission officers... Author: Kysa Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 4:20 p.m. > I'm glad this worked for you, but > I do note that you checked ahead of > time and that is CRITICAL. Actually...(face burning red-hot with shame)...I didn't check ahead of time. No, we were completely unprepared. Ariel turned in all of her application stuff to the 3 colleges she was interested in -- essays, SAT scores, etc., but NOT a transcript. After all, she was unschooled...how could she have a transcript? I figured that part was obvious. Well, the admissions people started calling and writing to let us know we were missing something: the almighty transcript. And yes, her application was still considered incomplete until they had that transcript in hand. I was in a total panic. (I'm NOT recommending that anyone follow my lead, here. I nearly had a stroke that spring!) But I got the transcript written, sent it off, and all three colleges accepted her cheerfully (even eagerly). However -- by this time, we had a established a RELATIONSHIP with the admissions people at all the schools. Ariel had interviewed with officers (or their representatives); she had talked with them on the phone; she had made them AWARE of her. I think that's the main thing. For the last year and a half, Ariel has worked in the admissions office herself (part of her work/study program). Her take on it is that most applications are very...how shall I say?...BLAH. A student who stands out in some way gets noticed. I interpret this to mean that an unconventional transcript is not necessarily a problem, and could even be an asset. I'm sure this is one of those situations in which everyone's mileage may vary. Maybe we just got lucky, but Ariel's "score" of three out of three convinced me that we'd done SOMETHING right (even though I goofed up royally in the beginning!). Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Best Reasons To Homeschool Through High School AUTHOR: Susan M DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 5:01 p.m. Response To: Re: Best Reasons To Homeschool Through High School Author: Janie G. Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 7:05 a.m. I have > seen our son grow closer to the family > and actually ask for our opinions! I > love being able to discuss news events, > etc. based on our value system and life > experience rather than a classroom teacher > getting "first crack" at it. I agree! I really like spending time with my sons as they expand their interests and thinking abilities. They are around when my husband and I get off on philosophical discussions, and they feel free to join right in. We debate current issues, discuss things in the news that we are concerned about, and share spiritual insights. It is great! And there is mutual respect, which I do not always see between PS kids and their parents. My 15 yr. old's best friend will openly insult his mother (to her face), something my kids would never do. Another thing I really like is that we can set our own learning priorities, and decide for ourselves how we want to work on them. We do use the public schools as a resource--for higher math, lab science, band--but they do not control our sons' learning. We set our own standards. The last reason we continue to homeschool--It's fun! (well, most of the time anyway...) Susan M ======================================== MESSAGE: Don't be intimidated...you'll be AMAZED one of these days AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 5:22 p.m. Response To: I'll join you in a duet, Cerelle! Author: Joyce U. Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 4:24 p.m. > I'll be honest, I worry sometimes > whether academically she'll do OK. I used to have those same fears. Since we never tested our kids, we had no idea how everything would come out in the wash, so to speak. We've just had to trust in their maturity, their sense of purpose, and the quality of the environment we've tried to provide for them. Now that we've managed to get one off to college, I feel a lot more confident. ;-) But, see, it wasn't always apparent that we were doing OK, academically. What passes for "school" around here doesn't often look like much...yeah, there's a lot of reading going on, some independent projects, keen interest in various things. But grueling bookwork? Nah. Spooky, isn't it? And my kids aren't the kind to enter essay contests or rack up sports trophies or become Eagle Scouts. Heck, my kids didn't even want to go for the Gold Star scholarship awards in 4-H. They were too busy doing the things that really mattered to THEM. Turns out...those things looked pretty good in the long run. So try not to fret about academics too much -- at least not the usual outward manifestations of academic achievement. If your daughter is happy, poised, and has a purpose in life, she'll be fine. I can *almost* guarantee it. Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: math - general not algebra AUTHOR: Beverly Johnson DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 6:49 p.m. I thought I had sent this to one of the other boards but it never appeared so I guess I did not. Most of you know by now that I have been hs my 14 yo niece since December after she tried to commit suicide. She is bipolar and ADD. she has a learning disability which had her in special ed till grade 6 in everything but she was mainstreamed in everything but English and reading. When I took her out of ps she was in prealgebra and was failing (grade 8). Since I have been teaching her I find that she is very lacking in all but the basic rudiments of adding and subtraction and does not seem to retain anything. We have been working for two months on fractions and then only to the point of subtracting. We have covered LCM, etc. Well today I gave her a simple problem - What is the LCM of 1/3 and 1/4 and she had absolutely no idea what I was talking about till I went over it again with her. She does not know her units of measure, percents, decimals and multiplication tables and does everything on her fingers. She will not listen to me when I try to explain anything and she is dead set against doing it. I know I shouldn't do it, but I have threatened to send her back to school if she doesn't do her school work. She is learning things from watching cetain television programs and her reading ability has improved at least a grade level since I took her out of school. On all the boards everyone is always talking about algebra and geometry. I know that this should be the goal but I fear that I have a child who will never be able to handle anything more than a general math through high school. Will I be doing her an injustice if I spent the next four years being sure she was well founded in the basics which I think will be more beneficial to her. I realize this will limit her college entrance but right now even that seems so distant. I don't know if I am putting too much pressure on her or not. She is suppose to take the CTBS test in reading and math in April and I know she will not do well on the math section. Should I try to get her out of it? I am in a quandry and feeling rather discouraged that maybe it is my teaching - I have never been a wiz at math - it was my worst subject during school. My first year of teaching I had to teach a general math course and boy did I learn alot that year! (Grin) We are going to her sister's for the entire next week to work on her math. Her sister is a math wiz studying to be a math professor. She is going to see if Becca will listen to her if she isn't going to listen to me. I hope and pray that she does because right now I feel like a complete failure and it is not that I don't know how to teach - it's that I can't seem to get through the wall she has built up. Thanks to those of you who wrote about reading to her - it is something she enjoys and so I will continue it - I will take some of the books mentioned and start reading some of those. I really appreciate having some place to address these problems and since this month is middle school I guess this is the right place. Thanks again. Bev ======================================== MESSAGE: Hi, Mary! AUTHOR: Jolee F DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 7:39 p.m. Response To: A "typical" day here. Author: MaryL Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 8:37 p.m. I'm reading this saying to myself that I know someone else who's child just started American School much to the mother's chagrin.... Then I realized it was you! "See" you Thursday... Jolee from the Thurs. night ParentsPlace homeschooling chat ======================================== MESSAGE: Re:math-general not algebra AUTHOR: Lorain DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 7:54 p.m. I homeschool my 2 Jr. high boys who are both ADHD and have some learning difficulties.It took me close to 3 months just to get them to understand how to multiply and divide.This is when they were in 5th and 6th gr.Algebra will never make it's way into this house unless a miracle of course.I also have blamed myself for their learning problems,and still find myself feeling guilty.There must be something I can be doing different,or maybe there is a magic cirruclem out there somewhere.But I've come to realize it's not me or them.They will make it in life without algebra.They have no pro- blem spending money and knowing how much change to get back.They have a bank account ,cook, measuring,etc.Math is all around.College looks doubtful.But I know the Lord will always be there for them.My boys have great difficulty retaining math facts,so I try to keep things different,with- out too much drilling,yet going back for reviews off and on.Don't blame yourself! ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: So, what is it like? AUTHOR: Jolee F DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 8:04 p.m. Response To: So, what is it like? Author: Debra Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 5:29 p.m. Our situation is weird. I only took my oldest out for one year (13 yo - 7th grade). (I am hoping he chooses to stay home longer.) Because of this we are following the county curriculum. Well, within the context of doing what he has to for the curriculum, I'm trying to get him to enjoy learning and seek some out. It makes for a bizarre mix! We are consistant with math and reading. This is done daily. We switch off on science and social studies. Sometimes we do both, but we usually do one or the other. We also add health and computer/technology every now and then. I do NOT plan his day as I want him to take as much initiative as possible. Here is what he did today (a very full day for us): Read in our current assignment - A Wish Giver Read and took notes on a book on Cameroon - he will "teach" me about the country. We are studying Africa and Asia for Social Studies. We are currently on Central Africa. Last time he did Ghana and made a poster with the country outline (he draws well) and facts on it. He sketched one of his Beanie Babies, Fortune. (a major feat given he jammed a finger on his writing hand at a soccer game yesterday) He has decided to sketch all of his beanie babies! We did some geometric constructions for math (create a congruent segment and find a midpoint of a segment using a compass) We went over some Central Africa stuff in our text. He worked on his ending project for our last book - a game based on A Wrinkle in Time. He practiced his guitar (which he does EVERY day). We watched Bill Nye - the science guy on PBS. (on farms and the science of farming. we are starting a garden as part of science) Finally, guitar class in the evening. Like I said this was a full day for us. We atleast get reading, math and guitar done every day. He choose to pick up drawing again, and I'm thrilled. He asks what we can do next, frequently. This has been a great step. Now I just want him starting without having to ask!! Jolee ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: math - general not algebra AUTHOR: Joyce U. DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 8:07 p.m. Response To: math - general not algebra Author: Beverly Johnson Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 6:49 p.m. Hi Beverly, Though your niece may not realize it yet, she is fortunate to have you to encourage her at this time in her life. I am not sure if you were asking for suggestions for a math program that may help, so please ignore if this isn't appropriate. I love the "Key To..Series" --Key to Fractions, Key To Decimals, Key to Percents, Key To Measurement, etc. The books are unique as they aren't textbooks. The print is large and each page is different adding to the interest. They can be used with kids from 4th-12th grade so I don't think your niece would feel like she was doing dummy math. BTW, this series is inexpensive too! I think you are right about the basics. Those are what is applicable to real life. Few people use algebra and formal geometry in every day and I don't think every student needs them. If she wants to take them at a jr. college later she can. I know a 40+ y/o woman who went back to school after a sucessful career in real estate and has had to take Algebra I so it isn't a lost cause if she doesn't have it in high school (or ever). I'll post the link for the Key To series...if you are interested. Sincerely, Joyce U > I thought I had sent this to one > of the other boards but it never appeared > so I guess I did not. > Most of you know by now that I > have been hs my 14 yo niece since December > after she tried to commit suicide. She > is bipolar and ADD. she has a learning > disability which had her in special > ed till grade 6 in everything but she > was mainstreamed in everything but English > and reading. > When I took her out of ps she was > in prealgebra and was failing (grade > 8). Since I have been teaching her I > find that she is very lacking in all > but the basic rudiments of adding and > subtraction and does not seem to retain > anything. We have been working for two > months on fractions and then only to > the point of subtracting. We have covered > LCM, etc. Well today I gave her a simple > problem - What is the LCM of 1/3 and > 1/4 and she had absolutely no idea what > I was talking about till I went over > it again with her. She does not know > her units of measure, percents, decimals > and multiplication tables and does everything > on her fingers. She will not listen > to me when I try to explain anything > and she is dead set against doing it. > > I know I shouldn't do it, but I > have threatened to send her back to > school if she doesn't do her school > work. She is learning things from watching > cetain television programs and her reading > ability has improved at least a grade > level since I took her out of school. > > On all the boards everyone is always > talking about algebra and geometry. > I know that this should be the goal > but I fear that I have a child who will > never be able to handle anything more > than a general math through high school. > Will I be doing her an injustice if > I spent the next four years being sure > she was well founded in the basics which > I think will be more beneficial to her. > I realize this will limit her college > entrance but right now even that seems > so distant. I don't know if I am putting > too much pressure on her or not. She > is suppose to take the CTBS test in > reading and math in April and I know > she will not do well on the math section. > Should I try to get her out of it? I > am in a quandry and feeling rather discouraged > that maybe it is my teaching - I have > never been a wiz at math - it was my > worst subject during school. My first > year of teaching I had to teach a general > math course and boy did I learn alot > that year! (Grin) We are going to her > sister's for the entire next week to > work on her math. Her sister is a math > wiz studying to be a math professor. > She is going to see if Becca will listen > to her if she isn't going to listen > to me. I hope and pray that she does > because right now I feel like a complete > failure and it is not that I don't know > how to teach - it's that I can't seem > to get through the wall she has built > up. > Thanks to those of you who wrote > about reading to her - it is something > she enjoys and so I will continue it > - I will take some of the books mentioned > and start reading some of those. I really > appreciate having some place to address > these problems and since this month > is middle school I guess this is the > right place. Thanks again. > Bev ======================================== MESSAGE: Our story... AUTHOR: Jolee F DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 9:06 p.m. We took our oldest out of ps for this year based on his emotional needs. (13 yo, 7th grade - following the county curriculum since he would be out for such a short time) I've learned a lot during this year about my son, how I want to teach my kids, and what I want for the future. We made a contract with my oldest which he is living up to. This means he gets his choice for school next year, and he wants to return to ps. I still hold out hope that he will change his mind. Given the school sports thing, I doubt he will. He has already missed a year of middle school soccer. With everything I've learned this year, we have decided to homeschool our other two next year! (and hopefully for a lot longer - my husband has committed to the first year, and then evaluate) My other son will start 6th grade next year, and my daughter will start 4th. I hope to homeschool them atleast through middle school. Now I'm deciding how to proceed with them. (I know I will NOT follow the county curriculum as I am this year!!!) I think that middle school can be a wonderful time. They are growing up, but still let themselves be a kid every now and then. Wish us luck! (Welcoming any suggestions, too!) Jolee ======================================== MESSAGE: Let's make it a trio! AUTHOR: Liz Messick DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 9:08 p.m. Response To: I'll join you in a duet, Cerelle! Author: Joyce U. Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 4:24 p.m. My daughter, almost 12, is the kid for whom homeschooling was invented. We tell everybody that she just doesn't have TIME to go to school! I could count on one hand the number of times I have seen this child bored. She doesn't have enough hours in the day to do all that she wants to do. Her passions are sports and music, but she loves to read, do crafts, and a host of other things, too. I can't tell you how glad I am that she has the time and freedom to do what she loves. It's hard enough when her own choices limit her. She plays on two softball teams, and is committed to several weekend tournaments this spring and early summer. Because of that, she can't play in the pit orchestra for a community theater musical that she really, really wants to do. It's a tough choice, and she hates not being able to do both. It would be really awful for her if she were bound by several hours a day in a classroom, followed by a bunch of homework! At least now she's torn between two things that she loves. She also needs and values solitude - something she'd get precious little of if she were in school. This summer, we hosted some softball players from another state who were playing in a tournament here. Deb thought it would be great fun to have three "sisters" her age around all the time. For several days, we were with these girls and their teammates day and night - going to practices, eating together, swimming and playing -- and Deb couldn't stand it! On the third day, she opted out of the daytime stuff and came home to sleep and read. Then she was ready to go cheer for them at their game, and go to the after-game party. It's so much about time and choices! Liz ======================================== MESSAGE: Here's what I'd do... AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 9:18 p.m. Response To: math - general not algebra Author: Beverly Johnson Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 6:49 p.m. Beverly, First, I want to say I think you're doing a beautiful thing. Your niece is fortunate, indeed! About math -- this sounds to me like a situation that calls for real-life, hands-on, MEANINGFUL math...before you try to make headway with the sit-down-at-the-table, abstract, school-type math. Know what I mean? Get that girl in the kitchen cooking with you! Does she like to bake? Measuring cups and spoons are all about FRACTIONS. Let her feel, see, smell, and taste what a fraction MEANS. Today a cake, tomorrow muffins, next day a pie. Halve a recipe, double a recipe, increase one by a third. What happens when you try to pour 2/3 of a cup of water into a half-cup measure? Or if food & cooking aren't her bag, try something else. Look for ways to incorporate real-life math applications into the things she's truly interested in. If she's into fashion, maybe you could sew something together. If she likes music, you could use that as a springboard. (Quarter notes, half notes, whole notes?) The main thing is to take math out of the abstract, textbook realm for this child and place it into a context that actually means something to her. Then -- and possibly only then -- will she be able to internalize the concepts. And I would seriously FORGET about formal math instruction for a while...at least until you see signs that she's able to apply some of these concepts on her own. As for algebra and geometry, these can also be approached in real-life ways, but I agree with you that the basic operations probably need to come first. Use games whenever you can in place of bookish drills. Chances are, your niece has a lingering bad taste in her mouth from her school math experiences, so anything that "reeks" of school might make her brain shut down for a while. She's probably not resisting to be stubborn -- I'm sure doing math problems is a painful ordeal for her, laced with emotional reactions that make it difficult for her to understand and pay attention to explanations. Believe me, I understand the frustration you feel when you're trying to teach her something and her mind is wandering somewhere out in left field, but try to exercise all the patience you can summon. This is a battle that can be won only through gentleness and good humor. Think of something that's totally incomprehensible to you (in my case, it would be something like learning rebuild a car engine), and then imagine how patient you'd want your instructor to be. Good luck! Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: So, what is it like? AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 10:41 p.m. Response To: So, what is it like? Author: Debra Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 5:29 p.m. I've taken my own sweet time answering this one -- mainly because I couldn't make up my mind what to say. The thing is, it's been different for each of my three children. When the oldest was middle-school aged, we were getting up at the crack of dawn to milk the goats. There was piano practice every day. I was teaching the two girls Latin on a fairly regular basis. We still had group read-aloud sessions, and nearly everything we did was subject to frequent interruptions by my squeaky-wheel youngest...who was then just barely "school-aged." But the bulk of the real education always seemed to be happening out of sight, when Ariel would suddenly take a notion to read all of Shakespeare's comedies -- at night, in bed, when no one was looking. This was also when she began reading The New Yorker faithfully (for reasons I never quite understood). Skip a few years... Daughter #2 spent her middle-school years either in the kitchen cooking or playing piano. Those were her passions, and what consuming passions they were (and still are)! She was that rare child who actually gets a kick out of textbook-y stuff, though, and she'd frequently plop down happily (without being asked) to do excercises in Warriner's English Grammar & Composition or a page of problems in a math book. But woe unto the person who tried to actively teach her anything -- nope, she just wasn't having it. "Please let me learn it by myself," she'd say. And now my youngest (no longer quite the squeaky wheel he used to be) is 13 and for all practical purposes an only child. His oldest sister is off at college, his teenage sister is off at work during the day, and he's left to amuse himself (and me) as he sees fit most of the time. This is Mr. Kinetic, the perpetual motion machine. He hops and bops about the house, babbling a strange mixture of Star Wars arcana, physics arcana, and delightful nonsense (as near as I can tell). These days, his afternoons are usually devoted to fence repair, because his dog keeps getting onto the neighbors' property, and he's worried she'll meet a tragic fate. In the mornings, he reads (a variety of stuff, although much of it seems to be Star Wars related, to my eternal bafflement), draws, fools around with various gadgets, plays with his dog, looks things up in the encyclopedia, rides his bike...you know, the usual boy stuff. At night, he drags the telescope outside and looks at the stars, watches TV, bonds with his dad, asks wild questions no one can answer. I still read aloud to him almost every day (currently, we're nearly through the first book of Tolkien's Ring trilogy). We play cards and chess (he wins, I lose -- unless I just happen to get lucky). I work at the math end of his curriculum, since his math skills are somewhat behind his science mastery, and that concerns me a bit. (Hey, I'm human.) So I pepper him with mental math challenges and occasionally make him do it on paper, much to his distaste. I guess that describes a "typical day" here. I try to remember to jot things down, like "Hunter dug the sky maps out of my old college astronomy text today," or "Hunter saw a red-tail hawk staking out the garden and spent an hour observing it through the telescope," or "Hunter read an old National Geog. article on Mark Twain." That sort of thing. Taken individually, a day at a time, it never seems to amount to much, but the whole is always somehow greater than the sum of the parts -- or at least that's how I feel about it. I guess the bottom line is that we're having a lot of fun together and learning something new all the time. Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: math - Key Curriculum Press AUTHOR: Susan M DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 11:09 p.m. Response To: Re: math - general not algebra Author: Joyce U. Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 8:07 p.m. I love the "Key To..Series" > --Key to Fractions, Key To Decimals, > Key to Percents, Key To Measurement, > etc. The books are unique as they aren't > textbooks. I would second this recommendation. These books are easy to use, start with the basic concepts and work up to using the concepts in story problems and daily life. My boys have both used some, or most, of these and really like them. And they explain things so well that they are easy to understand. Susan M ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Freeing Our Kids To Love Learning AUTHOR: PattiC DATE: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 11:11 p.m. Response To: Freeing Our Kids To Love Learning Author: Lori Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 2:05 p.m. Lots of folks set a basic "core" program ( nothing to do with core curr. etc btw) of mathematics and some grammar/writing goals, then work through that via the interest ares of your child. Your idea is a good one, see if he doesn't take it and run with it, remembering that he still might not be very productive yet. I would definately go to the unit studies board and get the whiz team ( web sites , books, etc.) over there to help you with some further suggestions about your idea!!!! Is he already out of school yet or is it something you are about to do? Don't let him give you grief, choose your battles and ignore the rest!!! That is hard for us all but you don't enjoy nagging and it is useless, so make up some rules and try to ignore the rest...he is testing you and his wings at the smae time. It is painful to see our well behaved little angels acting bady or making mistakes but it is all part of the process. Set the rules, the let him loose within those parameters. > Very interesting method of getting > your kids back on track to actually > ENJOY learning again. I guess sometimes > we're afraid to let certain academics > drop for a time while we figure out > what's best for our child's learning > style. That's where I am now. I have > a boy turning 13 who is EXTREMELY strong-willed > and gives me grief everyday all day > long. One thing I see that I need to > do is give him more freedom in choosing > what interests him and then cover the > academics within that field of interest. > I told him that this summer he can choose > to create his own 'video game'. He won't > actually be putting it in the form of > a game that can really be played. But > he can use his art skills to draw characters, > his English skills to create an environment > and story-line, etc. He sounded very > interested in doing this. I told him > if it works well for the summer at a > leisurely pace, we could try to do similar > things during the regular school year. > > I guess the bottom line is we don't > have to be the public school at home > --- we can loosen up and be creative. > And let our kids have some say in what > and how they learn. > Comments? ======================================== MESSAGE: scares me to think about my daughter ever being in middle school... AUTHOR: Lizzy DATE: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 5:23 a.m. I live in a small town in Colo, we start middle school in 6th grade, my daughter will be 6th next year, this is our 3rd year of hsing, I look at my little girl and wonder, how would she have ever made it in middle school, etc... I mean she is still so little, is it reall necessary to expose 11/12 yr olds to 15ish yr old ps kids, not that they are all bad, I was one at one time, but I drive into town and half the time they are wandering around! Sitting on corners, cigs hanging out, now remember these are 12-15 yr olds... Guess I just want to let you know how grateful I am the lord showed me Hsing was right for me... Ah, i feel better... ======================================== MESSAGE: I second this recommendation AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 6:55 a.m. Response To: Re: math - general not algebra Author: Joyce U. Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 8:07 p.m. >I love the "Key To..Series" > --Key to Fractions, Key To Decimals, > Key to Percents, Key To Measurement, > etc. The books are unique as they aren't > textbooks. The print is large and each > page is different adding to the interest. > They can be used with kids from 4th-12th > grade so I don't think your niece would > feel like she was doing dummy math. > BTW, this series is inexpensive too! This is a wonderful series. Perfect for children and teens that are having a difficult time understanding concepts or even for those who aren't! Their approach to math is quite interesting. Here is their website: http://www.keypress.com/product_info/key-to.html ======================================== MESSAGE: Our Experiences with PS AUTHOR: Barbara C. DATE: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 7:01 a.m. Response To: scares me to think about my daughter ever being in middle school... Author: Lizzy Date: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 5:23 a.m. I know what you mean. My older dd was a product of the public schools. She eventually moved out of our home and in with her boyfriend. Within months, she had dropped out of school. I "asked" the public school is she was attending. They didn't even know! Well, they jumped on the bandwagon and turned her in for truancy (my whole reason for calling in the first place) and we went through the county court system. She has now received her GED and yesterday started working at a nice little restaurant. Needless to say, my dh and I don't plan to put our other dd (6th grade) back into the public school arena. BTW, one of the comments I heard from my older dd, as well as other ps kids is that the teachers do not care about the students; they are just there for the money. Interesting, huh? Barbara C. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Life Skills List AUTHOR: Tina DATE: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 7:06 a.m. Response To: oh gosh, Tina. It's about 15 pages total...more Author: Charity (AK) Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 9:04 p.m. Charity - Thanks for the info....I'l check it out! Tina ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: math - what we're doing (pert near a novel) AUTHOR: maicie DATE: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 7:08 a.m. Response To: math - general not algebra Author: Beverly Johnson Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 6:49 p.m. I posted a similar problem on the high school board regarding my 17 year old son and received these very helpful suggestions. Check out "Family Math" by Jean Kerr Stenmark, et al. The book contains game-like math problems. At first glance the activities seem written for younger children but we're finding them very useful. The activities are helping Brandon see what numbers really represent. I'm using the games with my 14 year old (who is good at math), too. There are too many people (myself included) who can work text book math problems but don't really understand how to use numbers in everyday life. Cafi Cohen suggested this game: Math War- remove the face cards from a deck of play cards. Deal the deck out between the players (2 or more). Each player flips 2 cards and names the product. Highest product wins the cards. We started with just the 2's, 3's, and 4's from several decks and have worked our way up to the 9's. I didn't think Brandon would go for this game as he is very sensitive about his math skills and this game seemed "youngish." But, because he is learning his multiplication, he asks to play this game frequently. We play games like Battleship, Connect Four, Yahtzee, Memory. Brandon doesn't understand that this is math and sometimes balks because he thinks 'real' math only comes from text book. Sheesh! We are using Saxon's Algebra 1/2 and working through it very, very slowly. I have bought other consumer math books but even the very simplest one was too hard for Brandon. We are using Saxon becuase 1) the first part of the book covers basic functions in percents, fractions, and decimals and 2) as I said, it is important for Brandon to feel like he is doing 'real' math. It's slow going but Brandon is making progress. He told me the other day that when he goes out to dinner with his ps friends, he is the one who can figure out the tip to leave. YAHOO! Good luck. You sound like a nice woman with a generous heart. ======================================== MESSAGE: Liz, you stirred some more thoughts... Hmmm..some harmony??? AUTHOR: Joyce U. DATE: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 9:57 a.m. Response To: Let's make it a trio! Author: Liz Messick Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 9:08 p.m. Liz, First of all, let me tell you how much you encouraged ME a year ago when I was feeling pretty discouraged about my eldest's dyslexic 'tendencies'. You may not remember the exact post but I printed out your response (and others)and refer back to it!!!! Thank you!! Secondly, your post on this board reminded me of something I have been thinking about alot lately. Some would call it loneliness or 'lack of the S word-socialization with peers. Well, I happen to be a rare bird 'round these parts' that thinks that a little loneliness can do a heart good!!! In fact, I think that alone time has gotten quite a bad rap. People are so afraid of being lonely or alone that they fill their days with noise, activities, people (sometimes settling for less than admirable and wise choices of companions). Mind you, I am not saying that our kids activities are necessarily bad, but sometimes I become too involved at the expense of the 'alone' time. I find it lovely that your dd enjoys the time of solitude. I have tried to encourage those times for my dds also, grateful that because we homeschool, we have the time for that. I have always been an outgoing person, but have discovered that I only have energy to give and reach out and be around others IF I have had a time of quiet everyday. Days of rushing about are not for me unless I can get that solitude (for me it is early morning with my coffee cup nearby -Grin) I have friends who homeschool and feel they have to fill up their kids lives with meaningful experiences and groups because, as one mom of an only child told me yesterday, she feels guilty that her dd is home with her by herself. Liz, your thoughts stirred mine up some more and I thought I would add to them. Deep down, I think our fast-paced, noisy world is losing the inventions, the cures, the music that could be composed, the great book that would be written, because most kids are not out in the fields pondering, or lying under a tree, or walking to work, or doing the dishes at the sink or, etc. ---being alone with their thoughts and dreams. Oh dear, I am starting to ramble and I go off on my 'rabbit trail'. Anyway, thanks for sharing. Joyce U. > My daughter, almost 12, is the > kid for whom homeschooling was invented. > We tell everybody that she just doesn't > have TIME to go to school! > I could count on one hand the number > of times I have seen this child bored. > She doesn't have enough hours in the > day to do all that she wants to do. > Her passions are sports and music, but > she loves to read, do crafts, and a > host of other things, too. I can't tell > you how glad I am that she has the time > and freedom to do what she loves. It's > hard enough when her own choices limit > her. She plays on two softball teams, > and is committed to several weekend > tournaments this spring and early summer. > Because of that, she can't play in the > pit orchestra for a community theater > musical that she really, really wants > to do. It's a tough choice, and she > hates not being able to do both. It > would be really awful for her if she > were bound by several hours a day in > a classroom, followed by a bunch of > homework! At least now she's torn between > two things that she loves. > She also needs and values solitude > - something she'd get precious little > of if she were in school. This summer, > we hosted some softball players from > another state who were playing in a > tournament here. Deb thought it would > be great fun to have three "sisters" > her age around all the time. For several > days, we were with these girls and their > teammates day and night - going to practices, > eating together, swimming and playing > -- and Deb couldn't stand it! On the > third day, she opted out of the daytime > stuff and came home to sleep and read. > Then she was ready to go cheer for them > at their game, and go to the after-game > party. > It's so much about time and choices! > Liz ======================================== MESSAGE: Even my little one seems to need solitude AUTHOR: Liz Messick DATE: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 10:45 a.m. Response To: Liz, you stirred some more thoughts... Hmmm..some harmony??? Author: Joyce U. Date: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 9:57 a.m. I was surprised this weekend to find out that even my 6-year-old daughter wants and needs some time alone. She is by far the most outgoing of my three kids, and she has several friends with whom she plays regularly. She had spent all Friday afternoon and evening with one family (four kids, two right around her age), and she had come home exhilerated and bouncing. On Saturday morning, her sister had a soccer game, and she went along to watch, spending the morning happily playing games in the lounge with the younger siblings of one of Deb's teammates. When we got home, there was a message on the machine from the same family she had spent time with on Friday, asking her to come over again. Suzy outright said, "No, thanks." She hadn't had a bad experience on Friday - she had just had enough! By Sunday afternoon, she was ready to have her little friend from across the street over for a few hours, but on Saturday she wanted and needed to just be home and do ... whatever. Liz ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Definitely use books on tape and videos. Reading must be so frustrating for her... AUTHOR: mamama DATE: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 12:01 p.m. Response To: Good books Author: Beverly Johnson Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 3:08 p.m. and contact the institute for the blind and/or the library for the blind, they also allow children with other disablities (ie, mr or ld, or add ) to use their books on tape. You'll have to fill their form out. Since I no longer work in the schools I don't recall their number but let me know if you're interested and maybe i can dig something up. Because her reading level is much lower than her cognitive thinking she is surely missing out on a vast majority of knowlege -base. Read to her, use books on tape and videos and educational tv . Together, choose stories that are appropriate for her cognitive and interest level. Also, a note on classics. There are so many modern books -and just millions of other books- I wonder how necessary Shakespeare is for her. Sometimes, the best books are those that reflect your real life here and now. It sounds like you are an the right track and really work hard with her. Best wishes, MAMAMA (unschool psychologist) > good books - classics and the like as > well as enjoyable books on tape - can > be used to encourage a child to read? > > My niece is 14 and has been in > special ed reading since grade 1 - she > hates to rad but does do it when I demand > it but I can tell she is not getting > enthused about it. I have been reading > to her and encouraging her to read a > chapter now and then and it seems to > be working as long as it is something > she is interested in. My question - > am I setting a bad example for her - > that she does not have to read? I read > constantly and always have my nose in > a book. At the persent time we have > one book we are reading together an > one I am reading on my own. She is reading > nothing on her own except what I demand > for reading comprehension. Am I doing > wrong do you think? I believe that if > you can get a child interested in finding > out what is going on in a story, that > you can somehow capture his love of > reading??????????? > Bev ======================================== MESSAGE: Math War AUTHOR: Barbara C. DATE: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 3:09 p.m. Response To: Re: math - what we're doing (pert near a novel) Author: maicie Date: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 7:08 a.m. Math War sounds like a great game! My dd has trouble remembering her X Tables. Hmmm...Where is that deck of cards? Barbara C. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Good books AUTHOR: Barbara C. DATE: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 3:17 p.m. Response To: Good books Author: Beverly Johnson Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 3:08 p.m. Reading aloud is something my dd (who will be 13 next month) and I truly enjoy! I plan to keep doing it as long as she will "let me". LOL! I second Barb K's advice about letting her choose books that she likes and is interested in. I can't believe it, but my dd checked out a 1,800 page book from the library called "The Merck Veterinary Manual". (You know she didn't get that in the juvenile section!) She wants to be a veterinary assistant when she grows up. Though this book is way out of her league, I let her get it and look through it (alas, no pictures). Best Wishes! Barbara C. > I am wondering if you all think > that reading a good book to a middle > school child who hates reading or getting > good books - classics and the like as > well as enjoyable books on tape - can > be used to encourage a child to read? > > My niece is 14 and has been in > special ed reading since grade 1 - she > hates to rad but does do it when I demand > it but I can tell she is not getting > enthused about it. I have been reading > to her and encouraging her to read a > chapter now and then and it seems to > be working as long as it is something > she is interested in. My question - > am I setting a bad example for her - > that she does not have to read? I read > constantly and always have my nose in > a book. At the persent time we have > one book we are reading together an > one I am reading on my own. She is reading > nothing on her own except what I demand > for reading comprehension. Am I doing > wrong do you think? I believe that if > you can get a child interested in finding > out what is going on in a story, that > you can somehow capture his love of > reading??????????? > Bev ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Florida has free college for high schoolers. (nt) AUTHOR: Kim DATE: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 4:21 p.m. Response To: Florida has free college for high schoolers. (nt) Author: Gina Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 4:41 p.m. We are in Florida, is this true for all of FL. and do they also receive college credit? > Florida has free college for high > schoolers. (nt) ======================================== MESSAGE: We're having great success with the computer AUTHOR: cyndi DATE: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 6:52 p.m. Response To: math - general not algebra Author: Beverly Johnson Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 6:49 p.m. We started homeschooling (this fall) our 3rd grader and 6th grader. The 12 yr old also has a variety of learning problems. We quickly discovered how little he had been learning at school. Math is his worst subject (mainly because he hates it)We bought "Jump Start 3rd Grade" for our younger child and were thrilled by the whole program and decided to let our 6th grader try it. He loves it! He's quickly learning his basics and enjoying it at the same time. It also covers many other subjects besides Math. For $29.99 at K-Mart--this CD seems to just go on and on. It's just loaded with wonderful stuff presented in a fun and interesting way. I believe the series goes through 6th grade. We started him on this one because we had it for his little brother and thought he could use the review. We plan on going through the whole series. We've found that with both kids--if the learning is done on the computer (no matter what it is) it's like it's a game and not school. They work much harder and enjoy it much more. And it's not all expensive. There's a lot of cheap and free stuff out there. My husband has a website with some great free software on it. There are some good geography things and a nice spelling program. I'll post the link if you want to check it out. cyndi > I thought I had sent this to one > of the other boards but it never appeared > so I guess I did not. > Most of you know by now that I > have been hs my 14 yo niece since December > after she tried to commit suicide. She > is bipolar and ADD. she has a learning > disability which had her in special > ed till grade 6 in everything but she > was mainstreamed in everything but English > and reading. > When I took her out of ps she was > in prealgebra and was failing (grade > 8). Since I have been teaching her I > find that she is very lacking in all > but the basic rudiments of adding and > subtraction and does not seem to retain > anything. We have been working for two > months on fractions and then only to > the point of subtracting. We have covered > LCM, etc. Well today I gave her a simple > problem - What is the LCM of 1/3 and > 1/4 and she had absolutely no idea what > I was talking about till I went over > it again with her. She does not know > her units of measure, percents, decimals > and multiplication tables and does everything > on her fingers. She will not listen > to me when I try to explain anything > and she is dead set against doing it. > > I know I shouldn't do it, but I > have threatened to send her back to > school if she doesn't do her school > work. She is learning things from watching > cetain television programs and her reading > ability has improved at least a grade > level since I took her out of school. > > On all the boards everyone is always > talking about algebra and geometry. > I know that this should be the goal > but I fear that I have a child who will > never be able to handle anything more > than a general math through high school. > Will I be doing her an injustice if > I spent the next four years being sure > she was well founded in the basics which > I think will be more beneficial to her. > I realize this will limit her college > entrance but right now even that seems > so distant. I don't know if I am putting > too much pressure on her or not. She > is suppose to take the CTBS test in > reading and math in April and I know > she will not do well on the math section. > Should I try to get her out of it? I > am in a quandry and feeling rather discouraged > that maybe it is my teaching - I have > never been a wiz at math - it was my > worst subject during school. My first > year of teaching I had to teach a general > math course and boy did I learn alot > that year! (Grin) We are going to her > sister's for the entire next week to > work on her math. Her sister is a math > wiz studying to be a math professor. > She is going to see if Becca will listen > to her if she isn't going to listen > to me. I hope and pray that she does > because right now I feel like a complete > failure and it is not that I don't know > how to teach - it's that I can't seem > to get through the wall she has built > up. > Thanks to those of you who wrote > about reading to her - it is something > she enjoys and so I will continue it > - I will take some of the books mentioned > and start reading some of those. I really > appreciate having some place to address > these problems and since this month > is middle school I guess this is the > right place. Thanks again. > Bev ======================================== MESSAGE: Favorite Resources for the Home Educator of a Middle/High Schoolers AUTHOR: Charity (AK) DATE: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 9:36 p.m. I've already noted the recommendation to get Cafi's book. And I recently ordered Duffy's curriculum manual for Jr. High/Schoolers. I also ordered Design Formula (or something like that, too lazy to go get my catalog) by Barbara Shelton. What are your favorite teacher resources for this age? I need to update my library now that we're moving forward. Charity ======================================== MESSAGE: Anyone used the SAT prep books/software? If so...opinions please! :) NT AUTHOR: Charity (AK) DATE: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 9:38 p.m. NT ======================================== MESSAGE: You bet! AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 10:05 p.m. Response To: Anyone used the SAT prep books/software? If so...opinions please! :) NT Author: Charity (AK) Date: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 9:38 p.m. Ariel begged, borrowed, and checked out -- but stopped short of stealing ;-) -- all the SAT prep materials she could get her hands on. She ended up with two clear favorites: Up Your SAT Score -- a somewhat tongue-in-cheek, savvy, student-to-student, tell-all guide that proved enormously reassuring to her. This one made her feel like she was getting the real, insiders' viewpoint. 10 Real SAT Tests -- (or something like that; I forget the exact title) -- She loved this one because it yielded actual scores. Since she hadn't taken a standardized test since 2nd grade, she was desperate to get some kind of notion of how she'd do on the SAT. Interestingly enough, she said the REAL SAT she took seemed much easier than the "real" tests in the book...and she scored a lot higher on the honest-to-goodness one, too. Just something to keep in mind. I think the preparation books are great because most of them do a good job of explaining the problems (this was critical for Ariel in her most-hated subject, math). I really think she got a better handle on algebra from those prep books than she'd gotten anywhere else. She took about 3 months to prepare for the SAT -- not that she crammed for it or neglected all the other stuff she was doing at the time. But I'd say she spent approx. 30 minutes to an hour every day, just working the problems, checking her answers, reading the explanations on the ones she got wrong, etc. Leisurely but steady, if you get my drift. And I definitely think it paid off. She went into the test very relaxed and confident, and scored much higher than she had expected to. Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: P.S. I forgot to say... AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 10:18 p.m. Response To: Anyone used the SAT prep books/software? If so...opinions please! :) NT Author: Charity (AK) Date: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 9:38 p.m. ...We would have liked to take advantage of the prep software and free online coaching available, but the computer we had at that time was so old and inadequate, we didn't have the specifications required to do any of that. I'm hoping it will be a little easier for Laurel, now that we're technologically "capable," but really it wasn't that much of a disadvantage for Ariel to work only out of the books. Either way, it's the same sort of problems and thinking skills, and I don't know that the medium really matters all that much. Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: new here, have a question, and just wanted to say thanks AUTHOR: Cindi DATE: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 10:50 p.m. I was wondering if there was something like a pen-pal program for homeschoolers. I have a 13yod who would like to be able to talk to other girls her age that also hs. This is our first year and although she really likes it, she says that when she talks to her friends that go to ps, all they talk about is school stuff and she tends to get left out. She's kinda shy and has a hard time making friends. I think she would benefit alot being able to talk to other girls that hs, but haven't been able to find any in our area. Our hs group here is made up mostly of younger children, like 6-11. Anyway, if y'all know of anything like this, or have any advice I'd be grateful. O, and just wanted to add, that even though this is my first time to write, (guess I'm kinda shy too. lol) I come here often for all the helpful advice and info y'all give to others. It's really helped me get through this first year. Since I don't know anyone hsing children older than mine, I haven't had anyone to talk to about hsing a teenager. I've really been on my own, with a ton of questions and nobody around here to ask. Anyway, I tend to babble on sometimes. Sorry. Just wanted to say thanks and also thanks for any suggestions y'all might have. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: This topic is so timely for our family... AUTHOR: Kathleen Iuzzolino DATE: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 1:04 a.m. Response To: Re: This topic is so timely for our family... Author: Kysa Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 8:46 p.m. > Cafi's book "And What about > College" gives some very good advice > about record keeping. The short answer > is 180 hours of a particular topic equals > 1 credit. Of course, for things like > algebra, completing the text is also > required. We do mostly unit studies, > so the hours are what we count. Kysa, Are you sure it's 180 hours per credit? The high school program that my son is currently enrolled in only requires 80 hours per credit or text. The similarity between 80 and 180 made me think that perhaps your 180 was a typo. Let me know. I'm interested in such variations between programs. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: So, what is it like? AUTHOR: Kathleen Iuzzolino DATE: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 1:24 a.m. Response To: Re: So, what is it like? Author: Cerelle Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 10:41 p.m. Cerelle, LOL! You've described a day in the life with my middle son, age 12, to a "T"! I'm amazed. It's the hops, bops, babbling and delightful nonsense that clinched it! Mine's currently into Redwall and he prefers my interpretation, companionship, and funny voices when we read aloud. We have spent a lot of time this winter lying out on our deck at 3 a.m. FREEZING, wrapped in blankets and sleeping bags, watching the different meteor showers, planets aligning, etc. Why is it that giggles and whispers travel so far at that time of the morning? There's this sort of overamplification. And I couldn't agree more about the "sum of the parts" statement above! I'm always amazed at the body of work that is collected by the end of a year. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: math - general not algebra AUTHOR: Kathy in CT DATE: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 5:22 a.m. Response To: Re: math - general not algebra Author: Joyce U. Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 8:07 p.m. > Hi Beverly, I'll put in my vote for the Keys to.. books, too. My son, who was 11 at the time, was using Saxon 7/6 last year and got very confused when he reached fractions. He had various reactions to this frustration- "You taught me wrong, "the book lied", "no one ever uses this anyhow", "I'm just too stupid to learn." He also desperately wanted to learn algebra, like his best friend, who is 2 years older than him. We decided to try the "Keys to Algebra" books. The first 2 books in the series start off very easy, so he gained confidence in his mathematical abilities. This year we put aside the algebra books and went back to fractions using the "Key to Fractions" books. This year he's getting it !! You are doing such a wonderful thing for your niece. I know how frustrating it can be, when kids don't seem to appreciate it. My son was so angry and combatative last year, that he even decided to apply to a local charter school. In answer to the question on the application, "Why do you want to go here?" he wrote, "Because I don't get along with my teacher." He eventually decided against going to the charter school and this year he keeps telling me what a great teacher I am! Hang in there! Kathy ======================================== MESSAGE: Carnegie Units AUTHOR: Kysa DATE: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 5:46 a.m. Response To: Re: This topic is so timely for our family... Author: Kathleen Iuzzolino Date: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 1:04 a.m. > Kysa, > Are you sure it's 180 hours per > credit? The high school program that > my son is currently enrolled in only > requires 80 hours per credit or text. > The similarity between 80 and 180 made > me think that perhaps your 180 was a > typo. Let me know. I'm interested in > such variations between programs. The Cranegie Unit is from public schools in the last 100 years or so. It was established to try to make public schools more uniform. It is supposed to be equal to a course that meets one hour per school day for one school year. In most states this is 180 days, therfore 180 hours. Actually our local public school goes with 1 credit per semester (very close to 80 hours) and then requires 40 credits to graduate. By my way of reading our states laws, my children need 20 year long credits (180 hours). I keep track this way only to convert to a typical transcript for college entrance. My daughter thinks it is dumb and does not help with the record keeping. I have to admit, I know where she is academically without all the silly numbers. ======================================== MESSAGE: I am curious about the ChalkDust video series:SAT Math Review! Any users? AUTHOR: Joyce U. DATE: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 9:26 a.m. Response To: Anyone used the SAT prep books/software? If so...opinions please! :) NT Author: Charity (AK) Date: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 9:38 p.m. nt ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Free College? AUTHOR: Mary DATE: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 10:45 a.m. Response To: Free College? Author: Lori Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 1:50 p.m. I live in Ohio too. I just was told today that you have to be attached to a school, such as Clonlara, to benefit from the free college? > Just for information purposes, > I live in Ohio. I didn't realize the > free college for high school juniors > and seniors wasn't available in every > state. I wonder what other states it > is available in? ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: new here, have a question, and just wanted to say thanks AUTHOR: Kim from Sidetracks DATE: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 1:29 p.m. Response To: new here, have a question, and just wanted to say thanks Author: Cindi Date: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 10:50 p.m. > I was wondering if there was something > like a pen-pal program for homeschoolers. Don't know about that- but I'm sure there are lots... But there is a hs girl that has started her own board. There are only a couple girls there now, but they seem like really nice girls. ======================================== MESSAGE: Grammar Program AUTHOR: Laura H. DATE: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 2:10 p.m. I have an issue, or at least one of my issues rests with grammar and the public school system. My 15 year old, who is a Freshman in our public school system, has been introduced to grammar through college courses as a Freshman. He needs help beyond the regular class. I need to help him, and I see us getting weighed down -- looking for sources outside of public schools. Any program recommendations for us to use to teach an "average" 15-year old grammar basics right on through. This would be used to augment public school training (evenings / weekends). Thank you L. ======================================== MESSAGE: Pen-pals for homeschoolers AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 2:15 p.m. Response To: new here, have a question, and just wanted to say thanks Author: Cindi Date: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 10:50 p.m. We had really good luck with Growing Without Schooling's pen-pal network, back when my kids were younger (and lonelier). Growing Without Schooling (GWS), in case you're not familiar with it, is a newsletter published by Holt Associates. Their website is http://www.holtgws.com/ My guys made lasting friendships with their homeschooled pen-pals, plus it was great writing practice, too. I'm sure there are many other good sources of pen-pals for homeschoolers -- keep checking around. Good luck! Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Carnegie Units AUTHOR: Lisa Torres DATE: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 2:34 p.m. Response To: Carnegie Units Author: Kysa Date: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 5:46 a.m. 180 school days, one hour long classes equals 180 hours of "seat time". That's what it is usually defined as... > The Cranegie Unit is from public > schools in the last 100 years or so. > It was established to try to make public > schools more uniform. It is supposed > to be equal to a course that meets one > hour per school day for one school year. > In most states this is 180 days, therfore > 180 hours. Actually our local public > school goes with 1 credit per semester > (very close to 80 hours) and then requires > 40 credits to graduate. > By my way of reading our states > laws, my children need 20 year long > credits (180 hours). I keep track this > way only to convert to a typical transcript > for college entrance. My daughter thinks > it is dumb and does not help with the > record keeping. I have to admit, I know > where she is academically without all > the silly numbers. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Carnegie Units AUTHOR: Kysa DATE: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 3:59 p.m. Response To: Re: Carnegie Units Author: Lisa Torres Date: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 2:34 p.m. > 180 school days, one hour long > classes equals 180 hours of "seat > time". That's what it is usually > defined as... Lisa, you are so right. My daughter's 180 hours are productive learning time. No wonder homeschool teens are often so far ahead of their public school peers. Her best friend is spending 180 hours in Algebra II with a man who refuses to answer questions, telling the students they will remember better if they figure it out for themselves. So after her "seat time" she comes to my house for tutoring! ======================================== MESSAGE: 16 y/o daughter prepping now AUTHOR: Kysa DATE: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 4:09 p.m. Response To: Anyone used the SAT prep books/software? If so...opinions please! :) NT Author: Charity (AK) Date: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 9:38 p.m. My 16 y/o daughter is prepping for her ACT and SAT tests to be taken in April and May. Right now she has an ACT prep book at home from the public library. It is published by ARCO. It is okay. Last month she had an SAT prep book by Pinceton Review. She really liked that one. It was humorous as well as informative. I purchased a book by Cliff Notes called "Math Review for Standardized Tests". That is what she is currently using for math--her least favorite subject. I like the Cliff Notes format. ======================================== MESSAGE: Not sure, not there yet..... AUTHOR: Gina DATE: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 4:11 p.m. Response To: Re: Florida has free college for high schoolers. (nt) Author: Kim Date: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 4:21 p.m. I'm not sure if the credits jr and sr students get while taking the free college classes actually count as college classes. It would be too bizarre if they didn't though! sorry I don't know more but my kids are only 3rd and 5th grade. I guess as they got older I would start paying more attention to this kind of stuff! > We are in Florida, is this true > for all of FL. and do they also receive > college credit? ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: 16 y/o daughter prepping now AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 10:30 p.m. Response To: 16 y/o daughter prepping now Author: Kysa Date: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 4:09 p.m. > Last month she had an SAT prep > book by Pinceton Review. She really > liked that one. Yeah, we really like all of Princeton Review's stuff. And their "Getting into College" website is terrific. http://www.review.com/college/get/ > I purchased a book by > Cliff Notes called "Math Review > for Standardized Tests". That is > what she is currently using for math--her > least favorite subject. I like the Cliff > Notes format. Me too, me too! As a matter of fact, MY 16yo is currently using this one, and she likes it as much as her older sister did. It's one of those "just the facts, ma'am" books -- which we really appreciate. Not a lot of extra nonsense in it; just a good, clear presentation of the basic concepts, a smidgeon of practice, and then on to the next concept. This wouldn't necessarily be the best thing for everyone, I realize, but for a kid who can grasp the basic ideas fairly quickly and doesn't want to spend all day (or all year) doing practice problems, Cliff's Math Review for Standardized Tests is a great way to go. In fact, I'm planning to get my 13yo started with it this summer -- I figure he'll zoom right through it. Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Favorite Resources for the Home Educator of a Middle/High Schoolers AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 10:54 p.m. Response To: Favorite Resources for the Home Educator of a Middle/High Schoolers Author: Charity (AK) Date: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 9:36 p.m. Charity, This is sort of a non-answer, but I found I could quit relying so much on the standard teacher resources at this age and begin leaning even more heavily on the good old public library (not that I didn't already use it lots when mine were younger). At this age, they're so much more independent and can follow their noses around the library to their hearts' content. But I'm still in the game, of course, and once again, I depend on the library to be the homeschooler's best friend. I try to think of the things the kids WOULDN'T think of, even within their areas of interest. For example, Hunter may haunt the physics stacks, but he wouldn't necessarily think to look for biographies of famous physicists. And he might get books on astronomy but forget to check the video shelves (Cosmos series) or the periodical section (Sky & Telescope, Scientific American, etc.) for back issues that can be checked out and taken home. That's where I come in. Really, I'm just a vastly underpaid reference librarian. ;-) Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Anyone used the SAT prep books/software? If so...opinions please! :) NT AUTHOR: Lisa Torres DATE: Thursday, 4 March 1999, at 2:25 a.m. Response To: Anyone used the SAT prep books/software? If so...opinions please! :) NT Author: Charity (AK) Date: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 9:38 p.m. We are using "Math Flash" and "Word Flash" by Peterson's. They can be done in a few minutes a day. Each problem is explained on the following page in the math book; the vocab book has brief lessons with answers provided--we do a lot of these at the dinner table and my 12 yo joins in! > NT ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Grammar Program AUTHOR: Liz DATE: Thursday, 4 March 1999, at 9:30 a.m. Response To: Grammar Program Author: Laura H. Date: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 2:10 p.m. An old eighth grade Eng. book should give you just about all of the grammar needed for high school and college. Use one like Voyaged in English, Houghton Mifflin etc. They look simplified when you first view them, but he can follow them through from easy to more difficult and zero in on the areas in question. They should (At least Voyages does) cover verbals and some of the grammar areas necessary to know in order to parallel grammar at an advanced high school and college level. They will also show him the proper sentence structure and how to write compound, complex, and compound complex sentences. As for outlines, if he needs to know how to do topic outlines (using paralelled grammar) the Harbrace is a good source. It will also give him the appropriate formats biblio., note cards, papers, etc. My eighth graders went into some of the better area schools and none had any difficulty with high school or college Eng. I used Voyages from 6 - 8 with them. I use Houghton Mifflin with dd. It is about the same (organized a little differntly). I plan to switch to Voyages in gr. 6. I'm sure there are other books, but I know that these work and they are organized well. Good luck. Liz G. P.S. Voyages in Eng. is published by Loyla Univ. Press, 3441 N.Ashland Ave, Chicago, Il. Many Catholic schools use it, so you may be able to get a used copy from a school in your area. > I have an issue, or at least one > of my issues rests with grammar and > the public school system. My 15 year > old, who is a Freshman in our public > school system, has been introduced to > grammar through college courses as a > Freshman. He needs help beyond the regular > class. I need to help him, and I see > us getting weighed down -- looking for > sources outside of public schools. > Any program recommendations for > us to use to teach an "average" > 15-year old grammar basics right on > through. This would be used to augment > public school training (evenings / weekends). > > Thank you L. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: scares me to think about my daughter ever being in middle school... AUTHOR: Liz DATE: Thursday, 4 March 1999, at 9:38 a.m. Response To: scares me to think about my daughter ever being in middle school... Author: Lizzy Date: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 5:23 a.m. Lizzy, My dh, dd, and I had to make a short side tirp this a.m. We saw a mother walking into the market with a young girl (looked to be about 13) holding her hand. DD said, "Now I wonder why that girl isn't in school?" I said that she was probably a home schooler. Then I thought that dd still holds my hand like that when we walk together. I mentioned it and said that I was so glad she was at home with us. She is such a delightful child, but she isn't as "wordly" as many of the ps children whom we know. I am so thankful for that. There are so many grown up years, and all too few child years. I, too, thank God for leading me to where I now am. I do want to say, though, I think the ps have much wrong with them. I do believe, however, that there are teachers in the system that care greatly for their students, but there are so many negative things that they have to deal with. It's really tough being a dedicated teacher in today's public schools. Liz G. > I live in a small town in Colo, > we start middle school in 6th grade, > my daughter will be 6th next year, this > is our 3rd year of hsing, I look at > my little girl and wonder, how would > she have ever made it in middle school, > etc... I mean she is still so little, > is it reall necessary to expose 11/12 > yr olds to 15ish yr old ps kids, not > that they are all bad, I was one at > one time, but I drive into town and > half the time they are wandering around! > Sitting on corners, cigs hanging out, > now remember these are 12-15 yr olds... > Guess I just want to let you know how > grateful I am the lord showed me Hsing > was right for me... Ah, i feel better... > ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Best Reasons To Homeschool Through High School AUTHOR: Liz DATE: Thursday, 4 March 1999, at 9:50 a.m. Response To: Re: Best Reasons To Homeschool Through High School Author: Susan M Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 5:01 p.m. Thank you. I needed to hear that. I believe in home school. I know only too well what ps is like, so there is no excuse for my vacillating about what to do for high school. DD is gifted (where the piano is concerned). Her music teacher wants us to have her audition for the school of the arts. He says that less gifted students have gotten in. I must admit, we are tempted, but she says, "No!" In my heart, I know tht she is better off remaining at home...then...good ol Satan steps in and says, "Yes, but the best classical teacher in Charleston is at the school of the arts." I keep wavering. I know what that school is like, so I needed to read and digest these last two posts. She had done better at home (academically and musically) than most of the children at the school of the arts (and they are two plus years older than she), so why do I vacillate? I guess we need the support and encouragement of one another. Liz G. > I have > I agree! I really like spending > time with my sons as they expand their > interests and thinking abilities. They > are around when my husband and I get > off on philosophical discussions, and > they feel free to join right in. We > debate current issues, discuss things > in the news that we are concerned about, > and share spiritual insights. It is > great! And there is mutual respect, > which I do not always see between PS > kids and their parents. My 15 yr. old's > best friend will openly insult his mother > (to her face), something my kids would > never do. > Another thing I really like is > that we can set our own learning priorities, > and decide for ourselves how we want > to work on them. We do use the public > schools as a resource--for higher math, > lab science, band--but they do not control > our sons' learning. We set our own standards. > > The last reason we continue to > homeschool--It's fun! (well, most of > the time anyway...) > Susan M ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Don't be intimidated...you'll be AMAZED one of these days AUTHOR: Joyce U. DATE: Thursday, 4 March 1999, at 9:53 a.m. Response To: Don't be intimidated...you'll be AMAZED one of these days Author: Cerelle Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 5:22 p.m. Cerelle, Thank you fro the encouragement. My sweet 16 dd has some dyslexic tendencies (I have a hard time even typing that because I despise the overuse of labels!), so sometimes I worry how or if the academic arena of college is for her. She thinks because she can't remember 'facts' as readily as her younger sister she is not as smart as others. Yet, I see a poise and ability to get along with adults and kids (she loves children) that is way beyond her years and her peers. In fact, I don't know if this is very common but, because we have always encouraged our children to develop friendships with adults we know and trust, instead of just sticking to the peer group, I have seen (at least so far) my dd much more comfortable with adults than with her peers. Most of her peers, are so focused on the adolescent journey that Laura can not relate. Thanks again, Joyce U > I used to have those same fears. > Since we never tested our kids, we had > no idea how everything would come out > in the wash, so to speak. We've just > had to trust in their maturity, their > sense of purpose, and the quality of > the environment we've tried to provide > for them. Now that we've managed to > get one off to college, I feel a lot > more confident. ;-) > But, see, it wasn't always apparent > that we were doing OK, academically. > What passes for "school" around > here doesn't often look like much...yeah, > there's a lot of reading going on, some > independent projects, keen interest > in various things. But grueling bookwork? > Nah. Spooky, isn't it? > And my kids aren't the kind to > enter essay contests or rack up sports > trophies or become Eagle Scouts. Heck, > my kids didn't even want to go for the > Gold Star scholarship awards in 4-H. > They were too busy doing the things > that really mattered to THEM. Turns > out...those things looked pretty good > in the long run. > So try not to fret about academics > too much -- at least not the usual outward > manifestations of academic achievement. > If your daughter is happy, poised, and > has a purpose in life, she'll be fine. > I can *almost* guarantee it. > Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Carnegie Units AUTHOR: Laura DATE: Thursday, 4 March 1999, at 12:59 p.m. Response To: Carnegie Units Author: Kysa Date: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 5:46 a.m. In GA a unit of credit is = to 150 hrs. I have heard some states requires only 120 = to 1 credit unit. For GA a total of 22/24 units are required to graduate..plus graduation tests etc. > The Cranegie Unit is from public > schools in the last 100 years or so. > It was established to try to make public > schools more uniform. It is supposed > to be equal to a course that meets one > hour per school day for one school year. > In most states this is 180 days, therfore > 180 hours. Actually our local public > school goes with 1 credit per semester > (very close to 80 hours) and then requires > 40 credits to graduate. > By my way of reading our states > laws, my children need 20 year long > credits (180 hours). I keep track this > way only to convert to a typical transcript > for college entrance. My daughter thinks > it is dumb and does not help with the > record keeping. I have to admit, I know > where she is academically without all > the silly numbers. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Grammar Program AUTHOR: DawnF DATE: Thursday, 4 March 1999, at 4:15 p.m. Response To: Grammar Program Author: Laura H. Date: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 2:10 p.m. One thing that helped my three with learning and remembering what nouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs, ect. are is "Mad Libs". They are available at most book stores in the children's section. DawnF ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Carnegie Units AUTHOR: Kathleen Iuzzolino DATE: Thursday, 4 March 1999, at 8:48 p.m. Response To: Carnegie Units Author: Kysa Date: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 5:46 a.m. Well, the high school classes here are only 45 minutes long. And who are they kidding? Who thinks that they are actually engaged in academics for those 45 minutes? I'd say at least half the class must be devoted to administrivia and/or crowd control. Not to mention snow days, assemblies, absences, fire/bomb drills, pep rallies, etc., etc. Perhaps that's why the hs high school program we're using requires 80 hours per credit. 180 hours divided in half = 90 hours, minus 10 min. As far as the one-on-one contact vs. 30/1 contact, how should one extrapolate this distinction? Perhaps the hs kids should be given credit for the 90 hours divided into a ratio of 30/1 = 3 hours per credit!!!! LOL! Interesting... ======================================== MESSAGE: but... AUTHOR: PattiC DATE: Thursday, 4 March 1999, at 11:04 p.m. Response To: Re: Favorite Resources for the Home Educator of a Middle/High Schoolers Author: Cerelle Date: Wednesday, 3 March 1999, at 10:54 p.m. What would you do if you were like me and didn't have access to a public library? Besides going broke buying books and risking the wrath of airlines check-in crew with overweight bags every year or so, would you have some must have favorites to survive-in-the-Alpine-wilderness type books? > Charity, > This is sort of a non-answer, but > I found I could quit relying so much > on the standard teacher resources at > this age and begin leaning even more > heavily on the good old public library > (not that I didn't already use it lots > when mine were younger). > At this age, they're so much more > independent and can follow their noses > around the library to their hearts' > content. But I'm still in the game, > of course, and once again, I depend > on the library to be the homeschooler's > best friend. I try to think of the things > the kids WOULDN'T think of, even within > their areas of interest. For example, > Hunter may haunt the physics stacks, > but he wouldn't necessarily think to > look for biographies of famous physicists. > And he might get books on astronomy > but forget to check the video shelves > (Cosmos series) or the periodical section > (Sky & Telescope, Scientific American, > etc.) for back issues that can be checked > out and taken home. That's where I come > in. > Really, I'm just a vastly underpaid > reference librarian. ;-) > Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: What about the PSAT AUTHOR: Liz DATE: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 5:08 a.m. When I taught middle school, students with specific academic success, were selected to take the PSAT test. If I remember correctly, they were then in eighth grade, but the academic scores that qualified them were from their seventh grade year. Is there any tutorial material for preparation of the PSATs, or is one only concerned with the SATs since that is the test considered for college entrance? Liz G. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: What about the PSAT AUTHOR: Laura in SC DATE: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 5:29 a.m. Response To: What about the PSAT Author: Liz Date: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 5:08 a.m. Maybe things have changed since I was in high school --- a long time ago. But, we took the PSAT during our junior year. The conselors told us it was just for practice so we'd know what to expect the next year when we took the real thing. But, in my case, I did really well on the PSAT. There was a place on the form to indicate intended major, and scores were sent out to universities. Consequently, I spent the summer between jr and sr years being bombarded with mail from universities that had engineering schools. I ended up finding out about a private school half way across the country that I'd never heard of before. And, the best part was that their policy was that if you were accepted to the school, they would make it financially possible for you to attend. I have since found out that this is true for many schools!! HTH someone, Laura ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: College - Early & Free! AUTHOR: Mary DATE: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 5:32 a.m. Response To: Re: College - Early & Free! Author: Debra Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 1:04 p.m. Lori, You are correct. In Ohio they need to be connected to a school of some type. Right now Clonlara qualifies as such a school. THe reason being is the money set aside for this has to go directly to a school and not a private individual. > > I am planning on my girls starting > college classes at age 15 or 16. I don't > know the program here in Indiana for > cost, but my girls are only 5 now (twins) > so whatever is in place now can change > in 10 years. But I think it is a good > idea for them to go and start taking > college credit classes early so they > can spend more time getting thier degree > and participating in some of the many > wonderful opportunities on campus (like > I worked on the nightly newscast at > my college's PBS station). ======================================== MESSAGE: That was interesting info about PSATs. Laura AUTHOR: Liz DATE: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 5:53 a.m. Thank you, Larua. That was interesting information. I think most students take the PSATs in the earlier high school years. Only those specially selected students take them in the last year of middle school. Actually, it may have some connection with a Duke Univ. program for gifted students. My memory fails me. Anyway, your experience was very interesting. I think I'll have dd take the PSATs when the time comes....if only for practice. Have a good day. Liz G. ======================================== MESSAGE: Some General Resource Book Suggestions... AUTHOR: Barb K (Hs-ing in Southern Maine) DATE: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 6:18 a.m. Response To: but... Author: PattiC Date: Thursday, 4 March 1999, at 11:04 p.m. would you have some must > have favorites to survive-in-the-Alpine-wilderness > type books? I think if I were stuck in the wilderness, and had to have a few resource books to draw from, I would want the following books in my home library: The Kingfisher Illustrated History of the World; Handbook of Nature Study by Anna Comstock; The Timetables of History by Grun; Where to Find it in the Bible by Ken Anderson; A History of the United States and Its People by Edward Eggleston; Basic American Government by Clarence B. Carson; a couple of college-level dictionaries; The Book of Virtues by William Bennett; Saxon Math books: Algebra 1/2, Algebra 1, Algebra 2, and Advanced Mathematics (maybe Saxon 76, if you're starting out in 6th grade or so) -- along with all teacher's books and solutions manuals; and a good grammar book (Jensen's Grammar, perhaps), as well as copies of Wordly Wise fro grades 6-12. I think if I have all that, I'd be able to plan work for my child from junior high all the way through high school, with little need for much else...maybe? (Of course, I would only hold to this limited list if I were stranded on a desert island...after all, UPS goes anywhere these days, don't they ?) Anyway, I hope this helps a little... ======================================== MESSAGE: Teacher-type books I like... AUTHOR: Barb K (Hs-ing in Southern Maine) DATE: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 6:29 a.m. Response To: Favorite Resources for the Home Educator of a Middle/High Schoolers Author: Charity (AK) Date: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 9:36 p.m. Charity, In addition to the books you've listed here, I have a few others you might consider... Encyclopedia of Bible Truths by Ruth Haycock; You Can Teach Your Child Successfully, Grades 4-8 by Ruth Beechick; Educating the Wholehearted Child by Sally & Clay Clarkson; Homeschooling the High Schooler (there are a couple of volumes) by McAlister & Oneschak; High School Your Way by McAlister & Oneschak; and The Complete Home Learning Source Book by Rebecca Rupp. I don't have all of these books in MY library, yet, either, but I'm planning on adding them... Hope they help you! ======================================== MESSAGE: Thanks Barbara! AUTHOR: PattiC DATE: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 6:31 a.m. Response To: Some General Resource Book Suggestions... Author: Barb K (Hs-ing in Southern Maine) Date: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 6:18 a.m. > (Of course, I would only hold to this > limited list if I were stranded on a > desert island...after all, UPS goes > anywhere these days, don't they ?) UPS doesn't come here, but the postal service does.:-)Technically you can get anything anywhere, but the shipping cost on any one of those books ( airmail) would be about the books value, then you ahve to add duty and taxes. Surface shipping would be half of the books value, sometimes even more. Giovanna and I have played around with shipping and nothing beats my motto: Buy before you fly!!! ======================================== MESSAGE: more about the PSAT AUTHOR: Kysa DATE: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 7:14 a.m. Response To: Re: What about the PSAT Author: Laura in SC Date: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 5:29 a.m. > But, we took the PSAT during our > junior year. The conselors told us it > was just for practice so we'd know what > to expect the next year when we took > the real thing. I too was told this and it is not true. Yes, it is a 'practice' for the SAT, but it is much more than that. It is the qualifying exam for National Merit Scholarships and MANY!!! more scholarsips. A young home schooled girl here received a $6000 per year renewable scholarship based on her PSAT scores. I know that Princeton Review has a PSAT prep book because my daughter checked it out of the library. Also, students will receive information about collges based on the profile info they put at the beginning of the test. My daughter has received TONS of info from private schools with art programs--what she said she was interested in. Her best friend has been receiving info about nursing schools. I personally recommend that students take the PSAT in their sophomore year for practice and their junior year for scholarships. Kysa ======================================== MESSAGE: Where can they take this? AUTHOR: Lee DATE: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 7:34 a.m. Response To: more about the PSAT Author: Kysa Date: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 7:14 a.m. I don't know how to go about finding the information on where to take the PSAT. Can you advise me? TIA > Also, students will receive information > about collges based on the profile info > they put at the beginning of the test. > My daughter has received TONS of info > from private schools with art programs--what > she said she was interested in. Her > best friend has been receiving info > about nursing schools. > I personally recommend that students > take the PSAT in their sophomore year > for practice and their junior year for > scholarships. > Kysa ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Where can they take this? AUTHOR: Susan M DATE: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 7:52 a.m. Response To: Where can they take this? Author: Lee Date: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 7:34 a.m. > I don't know how to go about finding > the information on where to take the > PSAT. Can you advise me? TIA >From what I have heard, you must sign up at the local high school in the spring of the sophomore year in order to take the PSAT as a junior. It is only given on one Saturday in October (unless you have religions reasons for not taking it then, and then I believe there is one alternative dte). You could probably find out more by checking out the College Board site: http://www.collegeboard.org/index.html Susan M ======================================== MESSAGE: Home Education magazine has penpal list.. AUTHOR: Lee DATE: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 7:57 a.m. Response To: new here, have a question, and just wanted to say thanks Author: Cindi Date: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 10:50 p.m. I think the url is www.home-ed-press.com My kids have gotten pen pals from there. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: That was interesting info about PSATs. Laura AUTHOR: Susan M DATE: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 7:59 a.m. Response To: That was interesting info about PSATs. Laura Author: Liz Date: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 5:53 a.m. I think most students take > the PSATs in the earlier high school > years. Only those specially selected > students take them in the last year > of middle school. Actually, it may have > some connection with a Duke Univ. program > for gifted students. Duke has a program for locating talented young students. Johns Hopkins also has one. My son took not the PSAT, but the SAT, as a 7th grader, as part of the Johns Hopkins talent search. He scored well and was honored, along with a bunch of other students, at a big state ceremony. He also receives information on special summer programs and correspondence course that sound really neat. (Unfortunately, we can't afford them...) But he was glad for the experience. Here is the url for the Johns Hopkins program (if still good--I haven't been there for awhile...) http://www.jhu.edu/~gifted/index.html Susan M ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Where can they take this? AUTHOR: Kysa DATE: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 7:59 a.m. Response To: Where can they take this? Author: Lee Date: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 7:34 a.m. > I don't know how to go about finding > the information on where to take the > PSAT. Can you advise me? TIA Students HAVE to take it at a public or private school. It is given (I think) the second or third Tuesday in October each year. Registration is the end of September at the local school. I have gotten flack from the counselors since my kids are home schooled, but they cannot bar anyone from taking it. Cost is $7.50 I think. If you have a private school you have a good relationship with, I would try that. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Best Reasons To Homeschool Through High School AUTHOR: Mrs. W. DATE: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 8:01 a.m. Response To: Re: Best Reasons To Homeschool Through High School Author: Susan M Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 5:01 p.m. You say you use the PS as a resource.. what does that mean? Exactly how do you use them? > I have > I agree! I really like spending > time with my sons as they expand their > interests and thinking abilities. They > are around when my husband and I get > off on philosophical discussions, and > they feel free to join right in. We > debate current issues, discuss things > in the news that we are concerned about, > and share spiritual insights. It is > great! And there is mutual respect, > which I do not always see between PS > kids and their parents. My 15 yr. old's > best friend will openly insult his mother > (to her face), something my kids would > never do. > Another thing I really like is > that we can set our own learning priorities, > and decide for ourselves how we want > to work on them. We do use the public > schools as a resource--for higher math, > lab science, band--but they do not control > our sons' learning. We set our own standards. > > The last reason we continue to > homeschool--It's fun! (well, most of > the time anyway...) > Susan M ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: scares me to think about my daughter ever being in middle school... AUTHOR: Mrs. W. DATE: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 8:18 a.m. Response To: Re: scares me to think about my daughter ever being in middle school... Author: Liz Date: Thursday, 4 March 1999, at 9:38 a.m. I think it primarilly depends on the teacher. My ds is in PS in 6th grade, but he has a wonderful team of teachers. He has 2 teachers for academics and then 2 others for electives. This team has done so many wonderful things with this class and truly cares about the children. They have done quite a bit to allow their more motivated or brighter students the chance to accelerate. He has a great year this year in many ways, and I was scared to death to leat him go to PS. Now, we are still thinking about pulling himout for next year. My child still needs the ability to move more quickly, and well, I don't know how blessed he would be in the next few years with teachers and kids of good moral standing. There are still some good teachers out there. We were blessed with great ones this year! > Lizzy, > My dh, dd, and I had to make a > short side tirp this a.m. We saw a mother > walking into the market with a young > girl (looked to be about 13) holding > her hand. DD said, "Now I wonder > why that girl isn't in school?" > I said that she was probably a home > schooler. Then I thought that dd still > holds my hand like that when we walk > together. I mentioned it and said that > I was so glad she was at home with us. > She is such a delightful child, but > she isn't as "wordly" as many > of the ps children whom we know. I am > so thankful for that. There are so many > grown up years, and all too few child > years. I, too, thank God for leading > me to where I now am. > I do want to say, though, I think > the ps have much wrong with them. I > do believe, however, that there are > teachers in the system that care greatly > for their students, but there are so > many negative things that they have > to deal with. It's really tough being > a dedicated teacher in today's public > schools. Liz G. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: but... AUTHOR: VivB DATE: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 11:33 a.m. Response To: but... Author: PattiC Date: Thursday, 4 March 1999, at 11:04 p.m. Dear Patti, I don't know if this helps any, but we bought (for less than $20) a CD with 750 works of great literature, including non-fiction classics. My son based an entire year's class on literature using this CD. The only problem, of course, is having to read while sitting at the computer, but he didn't mind. That would have driven me nuts though -- I like to curl up in bed with my books! Also, similarly, since you obviously have access to the internet, there are many websites with entire libraries. I'll send you links to online books below. Hope this helps a bit! -VivB Books Online http://www.thegroup.net/booktitl.htm Classic Short Stories http://www.bnl.com/shorts/ Directory of e-books http://www.books.com/scripts/lib.exe?sid~k91JYw0QiAnbQDR/file~ebooks.htm Internet Public Library http://www.ipl.org/youth/HomePage2.html Kids Web Digital Library (K-12) http://www.npac.syr.edu/textbook/kidsweb/ Online Books Page http://www.cs.cmu.edu/books.html ======================================== MESSAGE: PLUS test AUTHOR: Liz Messick DATE: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 2:10 p.m. Response To: Re: That was interesting info about PSATs. Laura Author: Susan M Date: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 7:59 a.m. > Duke has a program for locating > talented young students. Johns Hopkins > also has one. My son took not the PSAT, > but the SAT, as a 7th grader, as part > of the Johns Hopkins talent search. My daughter, who is in 6th grade, just took the PLUS test - 5th and 6th graders can take the PLUS, and I believe it is the first step on the Talent Search ladder. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Florida has free college for high schoolers. (nt) AUTHOR: Robin DATE: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 6:36 p.m. Response To: Re: Florida has free college for high schoolers. (nt) Author: Kim Date: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 4:21 p.m. Contact your school board and tell them you are interested in dual enrollment. My son just recently enrolled as a "dual enrolled" student. His tuition is paid completely, but we have to pay for books. I find this a bit unfair, since, if he were in a local high school and not homeschooled, the school would pick up the price of the books. (Same taxes I pay, I am certain). Also, credits are college credits and can be used for high school graduation. There is a placement test given but that proved to be no problem. Oh, I might add, my son is enrolled at a local community college...I have no idea how it works for other colleges in Florida. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: So, what is it like? AUTHOR: annette DATE: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 8:44 p.m. Response To: Re: So, what is it like? Author: Cerelle Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 10:41 p.m. Thank you Cerelle! Once again you bring perspective to my 12yo sons academic life. After reading of the aspirations for West Point of the young men mentioned above...no offense, I admire their ambitiousness....I was beginning to feel a little defeated. My son only wants to work on his sports web page or be out their actually playing. I assign him work to do and he cheerfully does it for me, but that is the point. It is more for my own comfort that he turns out those math and language assignments. It is like we have this private joke between us. "I'll do this for you mom because I know it makes you feel better. Then I will get back to what I am really wanting to do." *G* > I've taken my own sweet time answering > this one -- mainly because I couldn't > make up my mind what to say. The thing > is, it's been different for each of > my three children. > When the oldest was middle-school > aged, we were getting up at the crack > of dawn to milk the goats. There was > piano practice every day. I was teaching > the two girls Latin on a fairly regular > basis. We still had group read-aloud > sessions, and nearly everything we did > was subject to frequent interruptions > by my squeaky-wheel youngest...who was > then just barely "school-aged." > But the bulk of the real education always > seemed to be happening out of sight, > when Ariel would suddenly take a notion > to read all of Shakespeare's comedies > -- at night, in bed, when no one was > looking. This was also when she began > reading The New Yorker faithfully (for > reasons I never quite understood). > Skip a few years... > Daughter #2 spent her middle-school > years either in the kitchen cooking > or playing piano. Those were her passions, > and what consuming passions they were > (and still are)! She was that rare child > who actually gets a kick out of textbook-y > stuff, though, and she'd frequently > plop down happily (without being asked) > to do excercises in Warriner's English > Grammar & Composition or a page > of problems in a math book. But woe > unto the person who tried to actively > teach her anything -- nope, she just > wasn't having it. "Please let me > learn it by myself," she'd say. > > And now my youngest (no longer > quite the squeaky wheel he used to be) > is 13 and for all practical purposes > an only child. His oldest sister is > off at college, his teenage sister is > off at work during the day, and he's > left to amuse himself (and me) as he > sees fit most of the time. This is Mr. > Kinetic, the perpetual motion machine. > He hops and bops about the house, babbling > a strange mixture of Star Wars arcana, > physics arcana, and delightful nonsense > (as near as I can tell). These days, > his afternoons are usually devoted to > fence repair, because his dog keeps > getting onto the neighbors' property, > and he's worried she'll meet a tragic > fate. In the mornings, he reads (a variety > of stuff, although much of it seems > to be Star Wars related, to my eternal > bafflement), draws, fools around with > various gadgets, plays with his dog, > looks things up in the encyclopedia, > rides his bike...you know, the usual > boy stuff. At night, he drags the telescope > outside and looks at the stars, watches > TV, bonds with his dad, asks wild questions > no one can answer. > I still read aloud to him almost > every day (currently, we're nearly through > the first book of Tolkien's Ring trilogy). > We play cards and chess (he wins, I > lose -- unless I just happen to get > lucky). I work at the math end of his > curriculum, since his math skills are > somewhat behind his science mastery, > and that concerns me a bit. (Hey, I'm > human.) So I pepper him with mental > math challenges and occasionally make > him do it on paper, much to his distaste. > > I guess that describes a "typical > day" here. I try to remember to > jot things down, like "Hunter dug > the sky maps out of my old college astronomy > text today," or "Hunter saw > a red-tail hawk staking out the garden > and spent an hour observing it through > the telescope," or "Hunter > read an old National Geog. article on > Mark Twain." That sort of thing. > Taken individually, a day at a time, > it never seems to amount to much, but > the whole is always somehow greater > than the sum of the parts -- or at least > that's how I feel about it. > I guess the bottom line is that > we're having a lot of fun together and > learning something new all the time. > > Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: So, what is it like? AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 9:35 p.m. Response To: Re: So, what is it like? Author: annette Date: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 8:44 p.m. > I assign him work to do and he cheerfully > does it for me, but that is the point. > It is more for my own comfort that he > turns out those math and language assignments. > It is like we have this private joke > between us. "I'll do this for you > mom because I know it makes you feel > better. Then I will get back to what > I am really wanting to do." *G* Ha ha! Well, you know, cheerfulness counts for a lot, in my book. I know an awful lot of moms who'd give anything if their 12-year-olds were that cheerful! Hope you're counting your blessings. :-) Believe me, there are times when I feel a little weak in the knees (or is it in the spine?). But I try to welcome panic as a useful regulator...it makes me re-evaluate, take a good, hard look at what's going on, and then judge whether I'm in a panic about academics for no good reason -- or whether there maybe IS a good reason to be concerned. If it's the latter, I know it's time to get to work and change something. If I decide in favor of the former, we can keep sailing along and enjoying the ride. You'd think I'd have all the kinks ironed out by now, but I'm not sure that ever happens. At least, I'm not sure it will ever happen in THIS house. Every year is different and brings new challenges, new things to consider, new lapses to fly into a panic about. This whole last year, while my 16-year-old has been excelling in the workplace, I'm been chewing my fingernails down to the quick. Should a 16yo drive herself so hard? Shouldn't I be giving her a little more academic direction? Will she be ready to start the college application process next year? Help! So many concerns... But it all seems to be a matter of where I'm standing when I look at the Big Picture. Lately, the picture's been looking pretty darn good to me. And my daughter has recently decided that she HAS been devoting too much of her time to her jobs. She cut back on her work schedule this month, and has started hitting the books again. :-D I don't want you (or anyone else) to think "Cerelle never worries." Oh, I do, I do. I've just been riding these waves for so long now, I've come to expect a surge of confidence and relief after every spell of worry. It's all a matter of hanging on tight and keeping your sights on the far horizon. Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Is this what's meant by "dual enrollment" ? NT AUTHOR: Charity (AK) DATE: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 9:45 p.m. Response To: Re: Free College? Author: Joyce U. Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 4:29 p.m. NT ======================================== MESSAGE: "dual enrollment" not here AUTHOR: Kysa DATE: Saturday, 6 March 1999, at 6:35 a.m. Response To: Is this what's meant by "dual enrollment" ? NT Author: Charity (AK) Date: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 9:45 p.m. In South Dakota, dual enrollment refers to students that take something (just one or two classes) at the local public elementary or secondary school. Of course, we do not have free enrollment of anyone in any college level class. I would have to pay just to audit (take for no credit) a course at the university where I work! ======================================== MESSAGE: Thanks, Kysa. Kept hearing that term and was in the dark! :) NT AUTHOR: Charity (AK) DATE: Saturday, 6 March 1999, at 9:42 a.m. Response To: "dual enrollment" not here Author: Kysa Date: Saturday, 6 March 1999, at 6:35 a.m. NT ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Best Reasons To Homeschool Through High School AUTHOR: Susan M DATE: Saturday, 6 March 1999, at 9:53 a.m. Response To: Re: Best Reasons To Homeschool Through High School Author: Mrs. W. Date: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 8:01 a.m. > You say you use the PS as a resource.. > what does that mean? Exactly how do > you use them? Basically it means that we use PS much as some homeschoolers use community college--as a way to add to the homeschooling experience, to provide classes that we might not be able to do at home. For example, there is no way I could teach computer programming. I suppose we could buy a self-study book (but who would answer his questions, or help when he got stuck?) or get a tutor, but those things would cost money, a scarce commodity around our house. So he takes that class at the local high school. He also takes chemistry and pre-calculus, which would be hard for me to do at home. He was also able to compete in the regional Science Bowl with a group from the high school. My middle schooler is in the school band and loves. I could never teach him to play the trumpet or provide enough of a group for a complete band without driving a long distance. However, our boys will not receive a high school diploma from the school--they do not give credit for homeschool classes, nor do we necessarily want it. So we are able to take what we want from the schools without being bound by their testing and graduation requirements (which are becoming quite complex in Oregon just now). Susan M ======================================== MESSAGE: Time, Time, and more time AUTHOR: Kysa DATE: Saturday, 6 March 1999, at 6:10 p.m. Response To: Time! Author: Cerelle Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 7:16 a.m. I had to add my 2 cents after a conversation with another homeschool mom today. Time, Time, and more time is the current reason I home school. My 16 y/o daughter is prepping for her ACT and SAT tests to be taken in April and May of this year. She is currently spending about 1 to 2 hours per day on this. And she has the time. Because I think this is important and also learning, she has no other obligations from me. Her best friend is in public school and will take the tests at the same time. After she gets done with a full day at school, does homework, works part-time, os active in the church youth group, she has NO TIME left for any preparation. I tutor this girl in algebra. She is a bright girl, but would really benefit from prpping so she would not be so worried....But she has no TIME. My friend from today's conversation has young children. They are on a Bible Quiz bowl at their church and tops in the district. Next week is the state contest. They are expected to win. Why? Because they have the time to really study. When they are working on the quiz bowl, that is all they do for a while. The other children have to study the Bible in their SPARE time, whenever that is. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: PLUS test AUTHOR: Lynn DATE: Sunday, 7 March 1999, at 3:58 a.m. Response To: PLUS test Author: Liz Messick Date: Friday, 5 March 1999, at 2:10 p.m. > My daughter, who is in 6th grade, > just took the PLUS test - 5th and 6th > graders can take the PLUS, and I believe > it is the first step on the Talent Search > ladder. What is the Plus test and who administers it? Where can I find out more information on this test? Thanks, Lynn ======================================== MESSAGE: Joyce, meet my son AUTHOR: Kysa DATE: Sunday, 7 March 1999, at 6:38 a.m. Response To: Re: Don't be intimidated...you'll be AMAZED one of these days Author: Joyce U. Date: Thursday, 4 March 1999, at 9:53 a.m. Most of > her peers, are so focused on the adolescent > journey that Laura can not relate. My son has not been able to really relate to other children since he was about 8. He wanted to talk about adult topics with his father and grandfathers. They would talk about business mostly, and marketing, etc. Byt the time he was 12 I finally convinced my husband we needed to homeschool--he was starting to get in trouble at school. I couldn't believe this was the same child, so talked to the counselor when we took him out. She said, "He is not immature, but too mature. The other kids don't know what to do with a kid who acts like an adult and the teachers SURE don't." She advised home schooling and still does. By 16 he was done with high school. Then he took a college class. Liked it a lot, but found the college students a bit immature! Now he is at a private college and doing well. (I guess when you pay a lot of money for college maybe you take it more seriously.) He especially likes the professors. He comes home every weekend and works on his business. He will have his first employee outside the family this summer. He is much more comfortable around his own age group now that most of them are growing up. He will be 19 next month...... ======================================== MESSAGE: Michigan allows dual enrollment of up to 3 classes (Ithink), but registation with state required nt AUTHOR: Candy Eller DATE: Sunday, 7 March 1999, at 4:19 p.m. Response To: College - Early & Free! Author: Lori Date: Sunday, 28 February 1999, at 10:15 p.m. nt ======================================== MESSAGE: Used Gruber's Sat Prep - Rainbow Resources carries I think AUTHOR: Candy Eller DATE: Sunday, 7 March 1999, at 4:24 p.m. Response To: You bet! Author: Cerelle Date: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 10:05 p.m. Gruber's is huge and very complete and we did the same thing in taking several months to study it and other materials as well. Well worth it. ======================================== MESSAGE: Michigan allows dual enrollment of up to 3 classes (Ithink), but registation with state required nt AUTHOR: Candy Eller DATE: Sunday, 7 March 1999, at 4:26 p.m. Response To: Free College? Author: Lori Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 1:50 p.m. nt ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: PLUS test AUTHOR: Liz Messick DATE: Sunday, 7 March 1999, at 4:44 p.m. Response To: Re: PLUS test Author: Lynn Date: Sunday, 7 March 1999, at 3:58 a.m. > What is the Plus test and who administers > it? Where can I find out more information > on this test? The full name of the test is the PLUS Academic Abilities Assessment. It is an "out-of-level" testing instrument. Talent Search looks for academically talented kids who score at the tops (above 97th percentile) of the in-grade standardized tests normally given and gives them a test designed for older students. Kids who score high on the out-of-level test are the kids invited to participate in Talent Search programs, camps, etc. I think the website for Johns Hopkins IAAY (Institute for the Academic Advancement of Youth) has already been posted, but it's www.jhu.edu/gifted In order to take the PLUS, you first register with Talent Search, then you register with ETS (Educational Testing Service) to take the test. The testing for this year is already over (it's offered in December, January, and February) as far as I know. All in information is on the website, and they are very prompt about sending out brochures and other information when contacted. Although I am interested in keeping all options open for my daughter, I didn't have her take the PLUS primarily for Talent Search. (She did qualify in math.) There is a program in our area called Academic Challenge, which is offered to all county students who are working well above grade level, and she intends to participate in it. Students take the SAT in 7th grade as part of the qualifying process. Since Debby is in 6th grade, I wanted her to have the experience of an above-grade-level test now, as preparation, and as information for us. Liz ======================================== MESSAGE: one more idea AUTHOR: Kysa DATE: Sunday, 7 March 1999, at 4:48 p.m. Response To: Good books Author: Beverly Johnson Date: Monday, 1 March 1999, at 3:08 p.m. My sister-in-law home schools a girl who had abismal reading skills. The school kept passing her along because she was an athlete, but never taught her anything. She quit school after meeting my daughter (and finding our home schooling existed) and my s-i-l home schools her. The first year, she could barely read, maybe first or second grade level. For the first 6 months, reading was all they worked on. S-i-l read out loud to her, but also had this girl read out loud to a 6 year old. That really helped. She mostly read books of content (history or science) but little children's books none the less. After 6 months of being read to (high school books) and reading to the child (children's books), her reading level came up to near high school. That first year, (11th grade) her SAT scores were so low as to be unbelievable. She is now reading at near grade level and doing great in every subject but math. Her SAT scores came up to the point that she has been accepted to a college. P.S. I think books on tape are a great idea. I love to read, but discovered tomato canning season goes much faster if I can listen to books on tape! ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: PLUS test prep AUTHOR: Liz Messick DATE: Sunday, 7 March 1999, at 4:57 p.m. Response To: Re: PLUS test Author: Liz Messick Date: Sunday, 7 March 1999, at 4:44 p.m. BTW, I haven't seen any test prep books specifically for the PLUS test. Debby used an Arco SSAT and ISEE prep book. (Both the SSAT and ISEE are high school entrance exams, usually given to rising 9th graders, so the difficulty level is approximately the same as the PLUS, which is above-grade-level for 5th and 6th graders. Debby said the actual test was a little easier than the ones in the prep book.) Liz ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Anyone used the SAT prep books/software? If so...opinions please! :) NT AUTHOR: leslie DATE: Monday, 8 March 1999, at 4:17 a.m. Response To: Anyone used the SAT prep books/software? If so...opinions please! :) NT Author: Charity (AK) Date: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 9:38 p.m. Dd used Score Builder for the SAT and ACT by Learning Company. She liked the program, and felt it helped her. If I remember correctly, you take a test to find your strengths and weaknesses, and then can structure the lessons to what you need to work on. ======================================== MESSAGE: Why home schoolers tend to do well on ACT/SAT tests AUTHOR: Kysa DATE: Monday, 8 March 1999, at 7:03 a.m. Response To: Anyone used the SAT prep books/software? If so...opinions please! :) NT Author: Charity (AK) Date: Tuesday, 2 March 1999, at 9:38 p.m. As I write this, I am timing my daughter on a practice ACT test. For now until April 10, she will spend at least 30 minutes a day on "Math for Standardized Tests" and 30-60 minutes a day with a test prep book. Her best friend from public school would greatly benefit from that amount of time, but simply does not have it after 7 hours in the school building and then completing her home work. I don't expect Skye to get a perfect score, but I do think her score will be higher for the prepping than it otherwise would be. She apprecitates the fact that her "teacher" considers the prep time--especially the math--her "school" for the day. This luxury may be one reason home schooled children tend to do above the natioal average on any standardized test. I know some families practice with younger children before their state required testing so they are used to it. Food for thought..... ======================================== MESSAGE: Some out-in-left-field thoughts about testing AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 8 March 1999, at 7:40 a.m. Since the discussion seems to have turned to testing anyway, I thought I'd share a few radical opinions I have about the whole subject. I think it's fine for families to use the tests out there (PLUS, PSAT, SAT, ACT, etc.) to help them get what they want. If you think your children could benefit from programs like the one at Johns Hopkins, etc., then by all means, sign them up for the early tests and get them prepped. But don't feel that just because those tests are out there (and other kids are taking them), you're somehow failing your children if you don't get them registered for every talent search. It all depends on what you really want for your kids and your family. Personally, I hate the whole idea of all those standardized tests (including IQ tests, ability tests, and so on) and the labels they inevitably generate. That's just MY own personal bias. I remember taking a zillion standardized tests as a child and student, and I wanted my kids to grow up free of all that for as long as possible. I don't care what their scores and stanines are -- I care about the kind of people they are and the attitude they have toward learning. But once you take a test, that score (whether high, low, or average) is right there in your face, telling you who you are. In spite of a lot of pressure from all directions, we put off those tests for as long as humanly possible. Of course, not everyone out there is burdened with the negative feelings I have about testing. I'm writing this only for those who do -- and who feel pressured by others to get their kids signed up for one test or another. You don't HAVE to do it just because it's out there. Even if you know you have a kid who could ace one of these tests and be eligible for all sorts of special programs, you don't HAVE to take advantage of that. You can let them go right on being kids, growing up blissfully unaware of their percentiles. My rule of thumb is this: If a kid really wants to do something and a test score will help him or her do it, then by all means, sign 'em up for that test. Otherwise, don't worry about it. Cerelle ========================================Back to the TopBack to the Digest Index