Digests from the KALEIDOSCAPES MONTHLY TOPIC
(HOMESCHOOLING) DISCUSSION BOARD

These are the original digests from Kaleidoscapes' MONTHLY TOPIC discussion boards.
They were hosted by two amazing gals: Giovanna Gomez and Cerelle Woods Simmons.
The boards are no longer available (thus, links to them won't work); you can, however, still
find many of the same wonderful folks who posted on the boards at Network 54.
Finally, there are no banners or pop-up ads throughout these digests.
Hopefully you will consider shopping through our Amazon links occasionally.
(Thanks!)

Back to the Digest Index

Living With Our Children 24 Hours a Day Digest (part 3)

              ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: About that "Socialization"...
      AUTHOR:  Mindy M
        DATE:  Tuesday, 16 February 1999, at 2:12 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: About that "Socialization"...
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Saturday, 13 February 1999, at 6:10 p.m.



Thank you so much, Giovanna, for the link for info on the socialization
issue! We're brand new homeschoolers--haven't even "officially" started
yet, and just yesterday we "informed" my in-laws of our decision and
excitement about homeschooling! Well, they were less than thrilled
and immediately threw out the "What about socialization" question.
How frustrating to get this over and over! Anyway, I gleefully read
over the info on that link and emailed that address to my in-laws!
We'll see what happens! Thanks again! Mindy


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Hey, I like the idea of stories on tape
      AUTHOR:  Kim
        DATE:  Wednesday, 17 February 1999, at 10:37 a.m.

 Response To:  Hey, I like the idea of stories on tape
      Author:  Karla B.
        Date:  Sunday, 14 February 1999, at 1:47 p.m.



I guess I have a different system... You can fight all you want but
since I am the driver and therefore the BOSS of the van I don't have
to listen to your bicker if I don't want to and have the implicit
right to make you WALK. ( grandma's driveway is a mile long... :-D
) They made the concious CHOICE not to fight while we are the highway-
wasn't that clever of them ? ;-)

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: My method for keeping peace in the car.
      AUTHOR:  Robin
        DATE:  Sunday, 21 February 1999, at 7:11 a.m.

 Response To:  My method for keeping peace in the car.
      Author:  Gina
        Date:  Sunday, 14 February 1999, at 1:20 p.m.



> Karla wrote:

> When the kids were small I had
> a van with bucket seats. Next van had
> a bench seat and boy was that an eye
> opener! My current van has bucket seats
> and for as long as the kids are home
> I will always have buckets! I guess
> they couldn't deal with the vague boundries
> of where one's seat area ended and the
> next began. With the bucket seats if
> they are starting to bug each other
> I can be very specific about where you
> can put your body - "Keep your
> bodies in your seats, not out over the
> floor".

> I sure hope this van holds out
> since I bought it nine years ago before
> I quit work to stay home with the kids!
> With me not working I don't see how
> we could afford another.

> Anyway, some other things I do
> to help out on trips are: 1) Books on
> tape. This is especially great for those
> loooong stories that I would just totally
> loose my voice on. One classic we listened
> to that I would not have wanted to read
> aloud myself was Heidi. It was great
> on tape though. 2) Song tapes to learn
> math, geography, presidents. 3) And
> for those really long trips we have
> a small TV I plug into the ciggarette
> lighter. I will typically tape hours
> off Discovery and PBS before a trip.
> TV is very limited at home so they will
> watch anything! 4) If another adult
> is along I have a few books with silly
> questions for kids. Along the lines
> of "Would you rather eat a worm
> or give a report in your underpants".
> 5) Uncoloring books were a big hit on
> the last trip.

Books on tape works great for us as well! We have especially liked,
The Barn, The Other Side of the Mountain, and A Day no Pigs would
Die. I will look for Heidi. Do you have any other favorites?

What is an uncoloring book?

Robin in WA

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: My method for keeping peace in the car.
      AUTHOR:  Laura in Pasadena
        DATE:  Sunday, 21 February 1999, at 1:45 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: My method for keeping peace in the car.
      Author:  Robin
        Date:  Sunday, 21 February 1999, at 7:11 a.m.



> Books on tape works great for us
> as well! We have especially liked, The
> Barn, The Other Side of the Mountain,
> and A Day no Pigs would Die. I will
> look for Heidi. Do you have any other
> favorites?

Our current favorites are the Hank The Cowdog series. They are just
too hysterical! I figure if I have to listen to it, it better have
some appeal to me. Soup was also good (by the same authoer of A day
no Pigs would Die). The version we got was read by a child actor.
He did an amazing job.

Another current favorite - borrowed from the library is "Monster of
the Month Club" an unabridged reading of a book by Dian Curtis Regan.
This is about an 11 year old Homeschooled girl. My kids really loved
that she was HSed.

Laura in Pasadena

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Family Bed
      AUTHOR:  Marsha in MI
        DATE:  Monday, 22 February 1999, at 7:23 a.m.

 Response To:  Family Bed
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Monday, 15 February 1999, at 2:16 p.m.



We weren't allowed in our parent's room, much less their bed. We never
thought of having our oldest son in our bed, but on Saturday mornings
when we didn't want to get up we'd put him between us and doze while
he played with our hair, our noses, our toes, whatever! Wow! Almost
20 years ago. Since then, with our subsequent three children, we learned
that the family bed is the best way to get a good night's sleep, at
least for us! Our adopted daughter was grieving and seldom slept more
than half an hour at a stretch for the longest time - but would settle
to sleep easiest holding onto me, or lying right on top of me! I think
she was used to the family bed - she is from korea and had an elderly
korean foster mother until 6 months old, when she came here. Made
me realize that the family bed/non-family bed thing is somewhat cultural.

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Family Bed
      AUTHOR:  Karen
        DATE:  Monday, 22 February 1999, at 2:43 p.m.

 Response To:  Family Bed
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Monday, 15 February 1999, at 2:16 p.m.



We never set out to have a family bed . Two weeks after my first son
was born, we brought him into bed with us because it was freezing
cold and this girl didn't want to keep braving the rocker for those
all night feedings. wahlah! The family bed. Since then , we've had
two more sons and all of them have slept with us for the first two
years of their lives. Number three is no exception as he is still
there at the age of 20 months. The boys are very well adjusted. Better
than I ever was as a child. I don't know if that can be attributed
to homeschool or sleeping with us or all of it put together. They
are very happy children though. No question there. Sometime around
the age of two or three both of my older sons decided they wanted
their own beds but every once in awhile they come back in the middle
of the night. Usually if they've had a bad dream. Oh, and every morning
we have a family cuddle up under the covers and watch Barney, Arthur,
etc. In the afternoons we watch Wishbone that way too. It's just a
fun place I guess. Karen =0)

>

> ROTFL!

> We were in our parents' bed for
> the longest time. My mom was always
> criticized for that. Her friends would
> tell her how her two girls were way
> too attached! Until one day my mom got
> sick and tired of it and yelled at her
> friends. She told them..."The day
> will come when WE are going to want
> the kids to sleep with us then they
> won't want to!"

> My son crept in our bed every night
> for a while and outgrew it on his own.
> My daughter (age 4) still comes over
> to ours---usually early in the morning.
> She is the "snuggly" type
> so we "snuggle". Someone posted
> below that there is a certain FEEL to
> your parents bed. The sheets and even
> the smell of the bed gives comfort.
> I couldn't have said it better myself.
> I remember.

> Giovanna

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: My method for keeping peace in the car.
      AUTHOR:  Kathy
        DATE:  Monday, 22 February 1999, at 3:30 p.m.

 Response To:  My method for keeping peace in the car.
      Author:  Gina
        Date:  Sunday, 14 February 1999, at 1:20 p.m.



Where did you get the Hank the Cowdog cassettes?

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Need Support, please ;-( (long)
      AUTHOR:  Susan
        DATE:  Monday, 22 February 1999, at 6:32 p.m.



Hey Y'all,

I have had a big meltdown the last couple of weeks and need to "talk"
with others more experienced than I. We started homeschooling a 6YO
and 9YO this year (both boys) and moved to a new house. All fall,
we happily (well, not always happily) unschooled while riding out
floods and hurricanes and unpacking millions of boxes. Then the boys
indicated they would like more structure so we began unit studies
and daily reading/math/handwriting around New Year's. I probably went
overboard--really dug around to find cool books and activities around
the units, maybe too much. It wasn't long before they were resisting
the structure, as well as chores and anything else I tried to get
them to do, so we've gone to unschooling again.

Meanwhile, some stuff is going on with hubby and me that we're working
on really hard, and also I've been out of commission with a broken
right arm since January 5 (much better but still limits my activities
a good bit). Coupla weeks ago, it all just seemed too hard and I fell
apart. Like, going to bed for a few days to just rest, and not wanting
to talk on the phone, etc. (This is what I do when I need to recharge
my battery--I am an introvert, being around people at a time like
this is the WRONG thing)

Suddenly, the DH is suggesting I put the boys back in school, and
now today a good friend of mine made an earnest plea for me to do
the same, saying she thought it would be best for me and the boys.
This friend who recently had a huge meltdown of her own, and seems
to have forgotten....sorta hurts my feelings in a way)

What do y'all think? Shouldn't we allow ourselves some more time to
find the right balance of structure and freedom before giving up and
turning them over to that AWFUL school again? Is it possible I am
not able to homeschool my kids? I love them, I have a great education
and continuing thirst for learning that I love to share..... I am
feeling like a failure at everything right now, bottoming out, please
send kind and helpful words! Thanks

Susan

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  We all have bad days...bad months...
      AUTHOR:  Ann in NC
        DATE:  Monday, 22 February 1999, at 8:04 p.m.

 Response To:  Need Support, please ;-( (long)
      Author:  Susan
        Date:  Monday, 22 February 1999, at 6:32 p.m.



Susan,

You sound as if you are committed to homeschooling -- and I guess
that convinces me that you should homeschool. Things have a tendency
to even out in a while...if we all quit when we hit hard times, there
would be a lot fewer homeschoolers out there.

I unschool, so I guess I"m biased there. I've seen lots of kids ask
for structure..and then in a few months, they are in a power struggle
with their parents because they don't want to do their schoolwork
that way. Sigh... I don't know what the answer to that one is. But
I just wanted you to know that I've heard of it many times! So your
kids aren't the only ones..

Hang in there...this too shall pass..

Ann


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Hang on, Susan! We've ALL been there...
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Monday, 22 February 1999, at 8:34 p.m.

 Response To:  Need Support, please ;-( (long)
      Author:  Susan
        Date:  Monday, 22 February 1999, at 6:32 p.m.



Oh, Susan...

My heart just about burst when I read your post. Believe me, I've
had those "meltdowns" before -- I know what that feels like.

But gosh, just LOOK at all the stuff you've been dealing with lately
-- the big move, the total change in lifestyle, the regrouping, the
marital issues, the broken arm. Good grief! No wonder you've been
stressed out! But this is no time to give up. Take a d-e-e-p breath...

OK, now let's get to work on this, point by point.

> We started homeschooling a 6YO and 9YO
> this year (both boys) and moved to a
> new house. All fall, we happily (well,
> not always happily) unschooled while
> riding out floods and hurricanes and
> unpacking millions of boxes. Then the
> boys indicated they would like more
> structure--

Any idea why? Were they getting nervous about "falling behind" their
schooled peers? Or were they simply feeling restless and missing the
old, familiar routine?

> --so we began unit studies and
> daily reading/math/handwriting around
> New Year's. I probably went overboard--really
> dug around to find cool books and activities
> around the units, maybe too much.

I'm grinning, because I've certainly been guilty of this kind of thing
before. When I roll up my sleeves, I tend to REALLY roll up my sleeves,
and even though everything may go swimmingly for a month or so --
eventually *boom* -- burnout rears its ugly head. Let me guess...were
you thinking you'd get so much done in a short time that it would
make up for last fall when everyone unpacked boxes all day? Well,
you probably DID pack in a whole semester's worth of structured learning
in a month's time. I've seen it happen.

> It
> wasn't long before they were resisting
> the structure, as well as chores and
> anything else I tried to get them to
> do, so we've gone to unschooling again.

Good call, I think. In my experience, those cycles are pretty normal,
and it's no indictment of your homeschooling "method." Sometimes everyone's
in the mood to hit the books and have structure, and it's fine to
take advantage of that mood. When it plays out, that's OK, too. I
like to ride the current -- it works for us.

> Coupla
> weeks ago, it all just seemed too hard
> and I fell apart. Like, going to bed
> for a few days to just rest, and not
> wanting to talk on the phone, etc. (This
> is what I do when I need to recharge
> my battery--I am an introvert, being
> around people at a time like this is
> the WRONG thing)

Hey, isn't that called "taking care of yourself"? Better to go to
bed for a few days than to burn out on the hoof. And I'll bet your
kids figured out that even Mama has her limits. No harm done, and
it probably did you a world of good.

> Suddenly, the DH is suggesting
> I put the boys back in school, and now
> today a good friend of mine made an
> earnest plea for me to do the same,
> saying she thought it would be best
> for me and the boys. This friend who
> recently had a huge meltdown of her
> own, and seems to have forgotten....sorta
> hurts my feelings in a way)

Yeah, I would think so. Is she a homeschooler, herself? I imagine
your husband is primarily concerned about your welfare -- husbands
are like that. We mothers always put our children first, but men are
SO protective about their wives. If they think something's hurting
us, they just want to make it stop right away. But chances are that
you just really needed a breather -- not a reversal of fortune. And
you'd probably be feeling just fine right now if Other People weren't
acting alarmed, true? So now what you have to do is reassure those
Other People. Tell them you know you pushed yourself (and the kids)
a little too hard for a while, but now you've taken a new measure
of your limits and you're prepared to pace yourself a little better.
If they see that YOU'RE feeling optimistic, they'll be less likely
to try to run your life for you. ;-)

> What do y'all think? Shouldn't
> we allow ourselves some more time to
> find the right balance of structure
> and freedom before giving up and turning
> them over to that AWFUL school again?

YES! Absolutely! The first year is for experimentation. Everyone goes
through this. You learn what works and what doesn't work; you get
a feel for your own rhythm; you fly by the seat of your pants for
a while. Call it trial and error. But if you give up this early in
the game, you'll always call it "failure," and that's not going to
feel good.

Susan, I've have bad days, bad weeks, and bad months. I'd even venture
to say we've had some not-so-spectacular years, taken as a whole.
But you know, I would never trade anything for these past 13 years
of homeschooling. It's still the single best thing I've ever done,
in my opinion (and my children and husband agree). Implore everyone
to have a little faith in you -- and above all, have faith in yourself.
You can do this. Just be easy on yourself and give it time.

> Is it possible I am not able to homeschool
> my kids?

No way. It's MUCH too early to make that kind of judgment. If another
year rolls by and you're not having any fun, re-evaluate. But don't
ever try to judge yourself during a rough spot in the road, because
that's not even fair. Later, you'll be proud of yourself for sticking
it out when it wasn't so easy.

> I love them, I have a great
> education and continuing thirst for
> learning that I love to share..... I
> am feeling like a failure at everything
> right now, bottoming out, please send
> kind and helpful words! Thanks

Oh, I wish I could see you face to face so I could give you a big
hug. YOU ARE NOT A FAILURE! You just need some good old R&R...and
it sounds like you need a whole lot more support. I understand being
an introvert, but even introverts need friends who'll buck them up
from time to time.

And keep in mind, it's February -- spring's right around the corner,
but this is the dreary time of year when everything can seem dismal
and doomed. Go get some sunshine and a whiff of fresh air, and I guarantee
you'll start feeling better as soon as the wildflowers start poking
their heads above ground.

Now I'll bet your email program is going to be clogged with letters
from well-wishers and champions and friendly shoulders to cry on --
just don't forget to step outside once an hour or so to let the sun
and rain fall on your face!

Love,

Cerelle

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Dont Give Up
      AUTHOR:  Karla B.
        DATE:  Monday, 22 February 1999, at 8:43 p.m.

 Response To:  Need Support, please ;-( (long)
      Author:  Susan
        Date:  Monday, 22 February 1999, at 6:32 p.m.



You must have had very strong reasons for starting to hs to begin
with. Those reasons haven't gone away. Maybe you need to schedule
your "alone" time. I too am an introvert and cherish my alone time.
My hubby knows this so he will take the boys camping or out skiing
or just out of the house for a few hours. This is my first year hsing
too and it is tough. I feel very uncertain alot of the time but I
remember why I pulled them out of private school and for those reasons
I refuse to give up. I am encouraging you to hang in there too.

> Hey Y'all,

> I have had a big meltdown the last
> couple of weeks and need to "talk"
> with others more experienced than I.
> We started homeschooling a 6YO and 9YO
> this year (both boys) and moved to a
> new house. All fall, we happily (well,
> not always happily) unschooled while
> riding out floods and hurricanes and
> unpacking millions of boxes. Then the
> boys indicated they would like more
> structure so we began unit studies and
> daily reading/math/handwriting around
> New Year's. I probably went overboard--really
> dug around to find cool books and activities
> around the units, maybe too much. It
> wasn't long before they were resisting
> the structure, as well as chores and
> anything else I tried to get them to
> do, so we've gone to unschooling again.
>

> Meanwhile, some stuff is going
> on with hubby and me that we're working
> on really hard, and also I've been out
> of commission with a broken right arm
> since January 5 (much better but still
> limits my activities a good bit). Coupla
> weeks ago, it all just seemed too hard
> and I fell apart. Like, going to bed
> for a few days to just rest, and not
> wanting to talk on the phone, etc. (This
> is what I do when I need to recharge
> my battery--I am an introvert, being
> around people at a time like this is
> the WRONG thing)

> Suddenly, the DH is suggesting
> I put the boys back in school, and now
> today a good friend of mine made an
> earnest plea for me to do the same,
> saying she thought it would be best
> for me and the boys. This friend who
> recently had a huge meltdown of her
> own, and seems to have forgotten....sorta
> hurts my feelings in a way)

> What do y'all think? Shouldn't
> we allow ourselves some more time to
> find the right balance of structure
> and freedom before giving up and turning
> them over to that AWFUL school again?
> Is it possible I am not able to homeschool
> my kids? I love them, I have a great
> education and continuing thirst for
> learning that I love to share..... I
> am feeling like a failure at everything
> right now, bottoming out, please send
> kind and helpful words! Thanks

> Susan

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Family Bed
      AUTHOR:  mariah
        DATE:  Tuesday, 23 February 1999, at 4:53 a.m.

 Response To:  Family Bed
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Monday, 15 February 1999, at 2:16 p.m.



So funny to find this topic when it is SO on my mind this morning.
Our 8 mth. old is in our bed and I love it. Our 5 yr old would start
out in his bed, then join us later until he was 4 and started sleeping
in his own bed through the night. These nights, however, I am nursing
nonstop!! I am having a hard time being gracious about so much nursing.
Our daughter, many nights, only sleeps when nursing. She does not
nurse like this during the day at all. So I am looking for some way
to respond to this without leaving her alone to cry it out. I beleive
there just has to be some way to meet her needs without disregarding
my own. Any thoughts?
>

> ROTFL!

> We were in our parents' bed for
> the longest time. My mom was always
> criticized for that. Her friends would
> tell her how her two girls were way
> too attached! Until one day my mom got
> sick and tired of it and yelled at her
> friends. She told them..."The day
> will come when WE are going to want
> the kids to sleep with us then they
> won't want to!"

> My son crept in our bed every night
> for a while and outgrew it on his own.
> My daughter (age 4) still comes over
> to ours---usually early in the morning.
> She is the "snuggly" type
> so we "snuggle". Someone posted
> below that there is a certain FEEL to
> your parents bed. The sheets and even
> the smell of the bed gives comfort.
> I couldn't have said it better myself.
> I remember.

> Giovanna

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: My method for keeping peace in the car.
      AUTHOR:  Laura in Pasadena
        DATE:  Tuesday, 23 February 1999, at 7:54 a.m.

 Response To:  Re: My method for keeping peace in the car.
      Author:  Kathy
        Date:  Monday, 22 February 1999, at 3:30 p.m.



> Where did you get the Hank the
> Cowdog cassettes?

We got them from the library. We try and get most of our tapes from
the library because we really go thru them. Both kids listen to them
at bedtime, and then we need them for car trips.

You can get them from amazon.com. You can get them by the book (2
tapes) or two book sets (4 tapes).

Laura in Pasadena

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Dont Give Up
      AUTHOR:  Susan
        DATE:  Tuesday, 23 February 1999, at 8:14 a.m.

 Response To:  Dont Give Up
      Author:  Karla B.
        Date:  Monday, 22 February 1999, at 8:43 p.m.



Ann, Cerelle, Karla,

Thanks so much for the encouraging words. In my heart, I felt that
all the things y'all said were true. But you are also right, I need
more support. There's just not a lot around here! My only homeschooling
pals are also beginners like me, having their own doubts and poblems,
and dads threatening to march the kids up to enroll them in the public
prison, er, I mean, school. They are all so busy going through the
same thing I am, they don't have/won't make time for moms only sessions.
I would jump at the chance, believe me!

And our extended family, many of them teaching or working administratively
in public and private shools, are not much support either ;-( I get
the feeling they are looking at us, waiting for us to fail at this
hare-brained scheme and go back to the right way of doing things.

(whine!)

Well thanks so much for understanding and bucking me up. This is just
the help I need to get me through the flu that's going thru our house
this week--looks like I'm going to be the last one to fall from it,
here I go....

I will come back strong one of these mornings!

Susan

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Musical Beds
      AUTHOR:  Karla B.
        DATE:  Tuesday, 23 February 1999, at 3:37 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: Family Bed
      Author:  Marsha in MI
        Date:  Monday, 22 February 1999, at 7:23 a.m.



Our two boys have slept with us whenever they got up during the night
since they started climbing our of the crib. When they were toddlers
our bed would become crowded (octopus children) and I would roll out
and sleep for a few hours in one of their beds. Now they come in early
in the morning and crawl in. Sometimes they go back to sleep, sometimes
not. When they don't and we want more sleep we make them go to their
room and play quietly until we get up.

I agree whole-heartedly with the mom that said there will be one day
when we want them to sleep with us and they won't.

I cherish this time with them and see no problem with them sleeping
with us.

> We weren't allowed in our parent's
> room, much less their bed. We never
> thought of having our oldest son in
> our bed, but on Saturday mornings when
> we didn't want to get up we'd put him
> between us and doze while he played
> with our hair, our noses, our toes,
> whatever! Wow! Almost 20 years ago.
> Since then, with our subsequent three
> children, we learned that the family
> bed is the best way to get a good night's
> sleep, at least for us! Our adopted
> daughter was grieving and seldom slept
> more than half an hour at a stretch
> for the longest time - but would settle
> to sleep easiest holding onto me, or
> lying right on top of me! I think she
> was used to the family bed - she is
> from korea and had an elderly korean
> foster mother until 6 months old, when
> she came here. Made me realize that
> the family bed/non-family bed thing
> is somewhat cultural.

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Dont Give Up
      AUTHOR:  Betsycc
        DATE:  Tuesday, 23 February 1999, at 3:51 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: Dont Give Up
      Author:  Susan
        Date:  Tuesday, 23 February 1999, at 8:14 a.m.



> dads threatening
> to march the kids up to enroll them
> in the public prison, er, I mean, school.

> And our extended family, many of
> them teaching or working administratively
> in public and private shools, are not
> much support either ;-( I get the feeling
> they are looking at us, waiting for
> us to fail at this hare-brained scheme
> and go back to the right way of doing
> things.

Susan, I related to this so much - My brother-in-law is a high school
teacher (former principle) and wastes no opportunity to tell me how
unqualified I am to home school. Now, I am being bombarded from every
direction (grown daughters, friends, family & husband) saying I should
put her back in school. They say she has no schedule and needs the
structure and friendship that comes with public schooling (no neighbor
kids). My daughter is extremely bright. Reads books with a joy and
speed equal to my own. She is grades ahead in Math. Not so hot in
English and Spelling (says they are boring). She writes humorous/imaginative
stories (if you ignore the spelling errors). This is our 3rd year
home schooling. I pulled her out of public school in 1st grade, put
her back in for 2 months in 2nd grade and realized she is too smart
and sensitive to be in public school. I recently started an embroidery
business. My daughter wants to sew, all the time (like her mom?).
She is bored with school stuff. She simply will not do any assignments.
She sews like a pro! I say we are in a new learning curve - mine.
And once I get regulated, she will too. Cerelle mentioned husbands
who worry about their wives - I think that is what is happening here.
I am not sure about her schedule - she stays up late and sleeps in
late. This upsets others tremendously. It does not bother me unless
she is going through one of her "can't talk enough" spells.

Home schooling is not easy, but should have lots of special moments.
I recently took my daughter, now 9 yrs, to NC on a buying trip. When
people asked why she was out of school - she told them she was in
school, "Life is her classroom".

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Dont Give Up
      AUTHOR:  Susan
        DATE:  Tuesday, 23 February 1999, at 6:33 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: Dont Give Up
      Author:  Betsycc
        Date:  Tuesday, 23 February 1999, at 3:51 p.m.



Betsy,

Thanks for chiming in, I need all the help I can get right now! What
is this obsession with structure anyway? It is so odd how on the one
hand, Dh thinks it's grand that we are able to have a flexible schedule,
but every time he sees us taking advantage of it he seems a little
tweaked.... then if they need to go to bed early one night for something
we've planned the next day, he's tweaked too. Friends who don't homeshool
also give weird loks and comments about our schedule, as if something's
wrong because we aren't on the same schedule as public school families....

As far as the in-laws, no one has actually come out and told us how
wrong this scheme is but you can sense it by the awkward pauses and
the patronizing tone of voice... Oh well, my guys are too smart and
sensitive for public school too, and I may not be the world's best
teacher but I think this situation is far better for them in the long
run (and the short run too). So I'm a little crazy....they will see
me struggle and bounce back; they will see me cry and hear me pray;
they will see me learn to take better care of myself and of the family
despite all the pressures against this from the outside.

It is hard to be in the world but not of it. Thanks for your support!

Susan

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Be strong...
      AUTHOR:  Mindy
        DATE:  Tuesday, 23 February 1999, at 8:23 p.m.

 Response To:  Need Support, please ;-( (long)
      Author:  Susan
        Date:  Monday, 22 February 1999, at 6:32 p.m.



Susan,

I just wanted to tell you that I just prayed for you. I like to pray
very specific prayers :-), and I've prayed for all of the members
of your family, and I've prayed that God will send someone where you
are to be there for you and encourage you face to face. As someone
else said, I wish I could hug you myself, but I will leave it in the
hands of God to comfort you. He will! Be strong...I know you can do
it!

Mindy


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Privacy in shared room
      AUTHOR:  Susan M
        DATE:  Tuesday, 23 February 1999, at 10:49 p.m.



We live in a small two-bedroom house, and so my two boys--ages 12
and 15--must share a room. Lately with the constant rain (we live
in western Oregon) and no place to get away from each other, the bickering
has gotten rather intense. They both feel it would help if they had
someplace private. They are coming up with ideas like putting curtains
around their beds, rearranging furniture, etc.

So, those of you who live in close quarters, what ways have you found
for your children to have some privacy, even when they must share
a room? (We have no money for any kind of construction, so adding
on a room is not an option.) Thanks for any ideas you can offer!

Susan M

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Be strong...
      AUTHOR:  Susan
        DATE:  Wednesday, 24 February 1999, at 4:56 a.m.

 Response To:  Be strong...
      Author:  Mindy
        Date:  Tuesday, 23 February 1999, at 8:23 p.m.



Mindy--

Much thanks for your prayers. I do believe in them so deeply!

Susan

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  What if I fail???
      AUTHOR:  Denise
        DATE:  Wednesday, 24 February 1999, at 11:51 a.m.



Has anyone ever just given up? I do not want to put my kids in school,
but I can't seem to handle the pressure of all that goes with HSing.
Trying to be active in church, teach the kids, have a house that I
can at least stand to look at, do HS activities, gymnastics, piano,
ballet, cook, do the bills, I could go on, but you know firsthand.
This is my second year HSing. I feel like a failure. Most of the time
I am too tired to do anything. I might have school 3 days a week.
My kids are 7,5,4, and 1 and just trying to take care of them 24/7
is stressful. Don't get me wrong, I love them more than life itself,
but I feel like I am hurting them more by keeping them at home. I
have noticed as they get older I seem to start to pull away from them.
My mother was never what I would call a very loving mom. I am afraid
I am just like her. I am trying to break the cycle. I want to show
them I love them but it is hard when all they can seem to do is fight
and disobey. I am the only disciplinarian in the house. Dh is great,
just not in this area. I feel like they are going to hate me. Would
it be better for them and me to spend less time together? Has anyone
felt this or is it just me? Told you I am failing at this. Sorry to
ramble, I guess I am just letting go of concerns that I have kept
bottled up. One of the reasons I decided to HS was because I hoped
it would bring me closer to the kids. I have prayed about this for
years and I am trying, it just doesn't seem good enough. The added
pressure of trying to teach them has sent me overboard and I feel
trapped. I will not hand them over to the public school, but I don't
have the money to send them to a christian school. So I have to figure
this out somehow. I have read so many encouraging posts already. Is
there someone out there who has felt what I am feeling? Thank you,
and God bless!

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Need Support, please ;-( (long)
      AUTHOR:  Joyce
        DATE:  Wednesday, 24 February 1999, at 4:03 p.m.

 Response To:  Need Support, please ;-( (long)
      Author:  Susan
        Date:  Monday, 22 February 1999, at 6:32 p.m.



Dear Susan,

I have been homeschooling for several years. I use the ACE program
which isn't as wonderful as some programs, but for a mother of 4 who
didn't want to homeschool at first, and knew nothing, it has worked
out pretty well. I can relate cause I have been in your shoes before.
I severely burnt my arm right after Thanksgiving, talk about meltdown.
I have just recently started using it again, but am still restricted.
Just do what you can. Work on the basics, find other activities, puzzles,
computer programs, art, and use them as a reward. When I run into
a wall, and they seem to drag their feet, then I remember it can be
boring. Maybe you don't have the energy to teach or make it exciting
at that point but there are ways to make it easier. By finding things
they enjoy and using them to reward when they complete a task or unit.I
have a daughter who is 8.(besides the 3 other kids) If I let them
label her, she would be ADD. She just needs more help than the rest.
She gets frustraded with school sometimes. But if she does a few subjects,
she can then watch her favorite show on tv before doing the other
3 subjects. Then maybe do 1 or 2 more subjects, and then a puzzle.
Maybe all of us take a break and play cards. This works well for her.
My oldest hasn't taken school serious for the past 2 years and is
always putting it off, dispite not letting him get his permit or whatever.
So we told him for each page not done it would be a dollar. Then checked
up at the end of the time period. He paid a large fine, and it was
hard for me to inforce it, but it was the best thing I have ever done.
He is now up to date all the time.

Think alot about it before you give up. I have had a child in school
before in class and felt my child wasn't getting what they needed,
and they have been trained for all kinds of situations. Don't exspect
to much from yourself. Start over, and do your best. You have made
a move and had many things going on. Spend a day at the library and
look for books on some of the situations you have went through.

I don't know where you live, but I think the weather has me in a rutt.
I have been in slow mow lately. When I get that way, it is best for
me to find something to do away from home. Help someone else. Keeps
you on your toes a bit more. If you want structure, good luck. I have
never accomplished it, some families have, but most homeschoolers
have their own set of problems.

I would also recommend you keep in touch with other homeschool moms.
Through a local group or internet.

Hang in there. I am not a pro, but I can tell you, I have a teen ager
to be proud of. It has been worth it just for that. He is giving,
polite, loves older people, helps others rather than himself, and
is a good friend. When I took him out of public school in 7th grade,
I thought it was too late. He was a pain. Now I really enjoy him and
we do many things together. It will be worth it all :)

Joyce

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: What if I fail???
      AUTHOR:  Lynda
        DATE:  Wednesday, 24 February 1999, at 7:50 p.m.

 Response To:  What if I fail???
      Author:  Denise
        Date:  Wednesday, 24 February 1999, at 11:51 a.m.



Denise,

You sound so desolate, I almost don't know what to say. I do understand
what you're going through.

> My kids are 7,5,4,
> and 1 and just trying to take care of
> them 24/7 is stressful. Don't get me
> wrong, I love them more than life itself,
> but I feel like I am hurting them more
> by keeping them at home. I have noticed
> as they get older I seem to start to
> pull away from them.

My children are 9,8,6, and 2. Sometimes the stress of it all can spin
me into a depression, and I start questioning myself and my abilities,
just as you are doing. Fortunately, over the years, I have learned
to control my "funks" better, and usually I allow myself a day or
two to wallow and then I "just do something" (dishes. laudry. whatever.)
to get back into the swing of things.

> One of the reasons I decided to
> HS was because I hoped it would bring
> me closer to the kids.

And it will...but it does take time. And a commitment to improve your
patience level! I have a very low patience threshold. Some days it
is such a battle not to fly off the handle at every petty annoyance.
But whether the kids were here all day or just after school, it would
still be something I need to work on. Their being home just forces
the issue, and I NEED that. Homeschooling is a course in motherhood
for me, a way of bringing our family closer, not to mention an ideal
way to educate my children.

As far as schooling goes, I hope you're not expecting too much of
yourself. Only your 7 & 5 year olds need anything remotely structured
... and that's just reading, writing, and arithmetic. Focus on the
basics; add history and science in small doses, here and there. Read
a picture storybook about something historical. Do a simple science
demonstration (I use Developing Critical Thinking Through Science)
that takes all of 15 minutes. You can always add more later, as you
get settled to a new routine.

Feel free to Email me if you want to talk. Hope I helped in some small
way!

Lynda

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  I hope this helps....I have a 13 yo boy...
      AUTHOR:  Haley
        DATE:  Wednesday, 24 February 1999, at 7:55 p.m.

 Response To:  Need Support, please ;-( (long)
      Author:  Susan
        Date:  Monday, 22 February 1999, at 6:32 p.m.



and it is not until this year that I see the fruits of our homeschooling
experience skyrocketing in relation to this child.

We have homeschooled for three years. When we took the kids out of
school they were devastated. We moved, and they have never forgotten
the friends and community they left behind. In our new place they
have not found such a community... primarily because they are "homeschooled."
My son has had no more than two friends. It has been a struggle to
keep him from being sullen and unhappy. The only good hschooling days
we have had have come after a major "yell fest."

This year we see the fruit. (Thank you, Lord Jesus). He is happy,
seeming to be somewhat more self motivated, spelling better, not fighting
me on every little thing, and (hold on to your hats) appreciating
the fact that he is *homeschooled*

The point is, don't quit. One year ago I was ready to concede to my
son's desires and put him back in school. We got over that hump!!
I don't say that we will not have to approach this problem again,
but I am saying that if they are *this* fickle at this age, then they
just might be fickle again. We really laid off of our son, and he
seems to have arrived at a certain acceptable level without my help.
I just love him too much at this age and did not think this moment
would have ever arrived last year.

We have certainly battled the "structure" versus "no structure" battles,
too. I just gave up, thinking that I would put him back in school.
He started producing if not excellent, then certainly adequate school
work.

Please don't think that whatever you are going through now is the
ultimate Hschooling experience. His attitude will change, as will
yours. Home is best. I know, because my son is turning out to be really
cool (for a kid who fought me hard for so long). I hope this helps.
p.s. this is an unproofed message.

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Hang on, Susan! We've ALL been there...
      AUTHOR:  Sue
        DATE:  Thursday, 25 February 1999, at 7:12 a.m.

 Response To:  Hang on, Susan! We've ALL been there...
      Author:  Cerelle
        Date:  Monday, 22 February 1999, at 8:34 p.m.



>Cerelle,

Thank you for your response. I needed to hear what you said. This
is my first year of hs also and I have been thruogh similar cycles.
My husband even told me during one of our talks about homeschooling
that our kids education is not an "experiment". OUCH! I understand
he meant well so I let it roll off my back. I also learned that when
I am going thru re-evaluating our homeschool situation that other
homeschool moms can be such a source of support. (Not that my husband
isn't) Let's face it sometimes homeschooling is a real juggling act
and unless you are doing it yourself its hard to understand the demands.
I am careful about how in depth I go into our homeschooling with people
who don't do it themselves. I am trying to focus on what works for
our family and not be concerned with what other people perceive is
going on with our homeschooling. I know this year I have also put
alot of pressure on myself to accomplish too much. That is such a
drain of energy. I'm all for taking breaks to regroup and energize.
If fact we are taking a break today! I had some sick kids who are
not so sick today but I thought I'd take it alittle easy today!

Thank you for your insight. Sometimes we just need to give ourselves
permission to take care of ourselves.

Sue

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Putting too much pressure on yourself
      AUTHOR:  Ann in NC
        DATE:  Thursday, 25 February 1999, at 7:16 a.m.

 Response To:  What if I fail???
      Author:  Denise
        Date:  Wednesday, 24 February 1999, at 11:51 a.m.



Lynda,

Gee...give yourself a break. I think it is very important to remember
that your child's success in life is not entirely dependent on how
you approached her at breakfast this morning!  I've got four kids,
too, and when they are as young as your kids are, it's a HUGE JOB.
I remember that time in my life as 'my zombie years'....because I
was ALWAYS tired.

I'm here to tell you that 'this too shall pass'. So there will be
times in the future that you will be doing things that you can't even
imagine now. But, for now, give yourself some slack. What is important
is relaxing enough to enjoy them at the ages they are now. (Believe
me, I watch little ones now and miss it so much!)

So...could you cut back on the gymnastics, piano, ballet driving around?
I suppose it all seems so important, and I know my kids were in a
ton of activities. But when I look back now, I'm not sure they needed
all that at those young ages. It might be that your life would be
more fun for everyone if you didn't have to run around so much? Sitting
in front of the fire reading picture books instead of packing the
baby in the carseat to fetch someone at gymnastics? Hmmm...which mother
is calmer?

I also think you could try to make things easier on yourself. I know
I went through a period of time where we relied heavily on the crockpot
for dinners -- because I could cook better at 10 am than I could at
4:30 in the afternoon when everyone was CRAZY!!

My suggestions may not help at all -- each of us is different in what
we feel is important. But maybe they gave you some ideas? That you
can look at your lifestyle and try to simplify as much as possible?
If gymnastics is something you think is very important, but something
else isn't as important, try to eliminate that. I know when my kids
got to a certain age, we put all the dressers in the family room.
VERY WEIRD, I know. But it saved me a ton of running, since the family
room was closest to the laundry stuff in the basement, and so I could
fold clothes and put them away at night when the kids were asleep.
It eliminated all the running up and down, and the kids adjusted to
it quickly --- when they got old enough to complain about not having
their clothes in their room, they were old enough to do their own
laundry! 

So...I do know how overwhelming it can be, Lynda, and I want to send
good thoughts your way. Know that many of us have been there, too.
The best way out is to keep your sense of humor, keep trying to figure
out easy ways to do it, and remember that not everything depends on
you. Lots of school teachers make mistakes -- but it all comes out
in the wash. What your child doesn't learn at 7, he'll learn at 8
or 9 years old....

Good luck...hope this helps.

Ann

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Dont Give Up
      AUTHOR:  Sue
        DATE:  Thursday, 25 February 1999, at 7:39 a.m.

 Response To:  Re: Dont Give Up
      Author:  Susan
        Date:  Tuesday, 23 February 1999, at 6:33 p.m.



> Betsy,

> Thanks for chiming in, I need all
> the help I can get right now! What is
> this obsession with structure anyway?
> It is so odd how on the one hand, Dh
> thinks it's grand that we are able to
> have a flexible schedule, but every
> time he sees us taking advantage of
> it he seems a little tweaked.... then
> if they need to go to bed early one
> night for something we've planned the
> next day, he's tweaked too. Friends
> who don't homeshool also give weird
> loks and comments about our schedule,
> as if something's wrong because we aren't
> on the same schedule as public school
> families....

> As far as the in-laws, no one has
> actually come out and told us how wrong
> this scheme is but you can sense it
> by the awkward pauses and the patronizing
> tone of voice... Oh well, my guys are
> too smart and sensitive for public school
> too, and I may not be the world's best
> teacher but I think this situation is
> far better for them in the long run
> (and the short run too). So I'm a little
> crazy....they will see me struggle and
> bounce back; they will see me cry and
> hear me pray; they will see me learn
> to take better care of myself and of
> the family despite all the pressures
> against this from the outside.

> It is hard to be in the world but
> not of it. Thanks for your support!
>

> Susan Susan,

This is the second message I've sent to this post but I couldn't resist.
I just wanted you to know that you are in my thoughts and prayers.
Its hard for anyone to perform under pressure and I feel that myself
at times too. Your boys are learning a wonderful lesson on life, perseverance,
faith, family relationships and looking beyond inconviences and struggles
to long range goals.

I feel like I have let myself get stressed out at different times
this past year over what I needed to get done when my real focus should
of been on my relationship with my children In order for me to be
able to be the mom that they need I can't run myself into the ground
and be super mom all the time. I am not implying your relationship
with your children is an issue. I just wanted to relate to you that
we all have struggles. I hope you will get the encouragement and support
you deserve.

Sue

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Breaking the cycle
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Thursday, 25 February 1999, at 9:28 a.m.

 Response To:  What if I fail???
      Author:  Denise
        Date:  Wednesday, 24 February 1999, at 11:51 a.m.



Denise,

Sounds like you've got a bad case of the February doldrums, too. I
do think my darkest moments as a homeschooling mother have always
fallen around this time of year. We've been cooped up all winter;
it's getting late in the "school year" (even those of us who don't
pay much attention to the Sept.-May calendar still feel it somewhere
in our bones and worry that we haven't accomplished enough for the
year); and when we're relatively new at the game, it can all seem
so scary and HARD.

Try as hard as you can to put aside your biggest worries until spring.
It's just amazing what a difference a little warm weather and green
leaves can make! There were a couple of things in your post that I
wanted to be sure to address directly, though.

> Has anyone ever just given up?

Oh, sure, people do it all the time. I've seen statistics indicating
that about half of all new homeschoolers put their kids back in school
after the first year of homeschooling. I've known people who gave
up after two weeks! Of course, I think they threw in the towel much
too soon, but this crazy lifestyle certainly isn't everyone's cup
of tea.

> I do not want to put my kids in school,
> but I can't seem to handle the pressure
> of all that goes with HSing. Trying
> to be active in church, teach the kids,
> have a house that I can at least stand
> to look at, do HS activities, gymnastics,
> piano, ballet, cook, do the bills, I
> could go on, but you know firsthand.

Ah, yes I do. I love what Ann said about the "zombie years." And I
agree that all that running around can make you nuts. I was as guilty
as anyone when my kids were small -- for several years, we drove nearly
an hour (one way) to piano lessons every week, did the ballet thing,
and yes, gymnastics for a while, too. Plus community sports, 4-H,
trips to the museums, etc., etc. I was so worried about my children
feeling cooped up in the house, I wanted to make sure they got out,
saw people, did interesting things -- you know the drill.

I remember tearing through the house on ballet day every week, because
we could never find everyone's tights, leotards, and ballet shoes.
I used to complain that it always took us an hour and a half just
to get READY to leave for ballet class.

> This is my second year HSing. I feel
> like a failure. Most of the time I am
> too tired to do anything. I might have
> school 3 days a week. My kids are 7,5,4,
> and 1 and just trying to take care of
> them 24/7 is stressful. Don't get me
> wrong, I love them more than life itself,
> but I feel like I am hurting them more
> by keeping them at home.

As long as we're in that "feeling like a failure" mode, everything
seems stressful. Every little thing that goes wrong during the day
is experienced as yet one more proof of what a lousy job we're doing.

The moms who keep going are the ones who learn to roll with the punches,
who keep their sense of humor about them (as Ann pointed out -- and
humor is SO important), and who don't get upset about all the little
things. It's all those little things, isn't it? The phone rings, the
baby cries, the 7-year-old pouts about something, and the 4-year-old
suddenly takes a notion to pour his orange juice on the dog. Life
feels like one crisis following on the heels of another!

The thing to remember is that none of this little stuff is actually
a crisis. It only FEELS that way when you're stuck in the moment and
it all seems to be happening at once.

I don't why it is that some women seem to sail through it all serenely
while others of us wail and pull our hair out. It's probably all a
matter of temperament. One thing I do know is that people of ALL temperaments
homeschool, and those of us who stick it out are always glad we did.

Heaping a bunch of pressure on yourself to do it all perfectly every
day will only make you cross. You'll be cross and cranky with your
kids, and they in turn will be cross and cranky with you! I used to
be famous for my Saturday morning tantrums. I don't know what it was
about Saturdays, but I'd look up after a week of homeschooling and
freak out over the condition of our house. It generally looked like
the middle of tornado alley! So I'd start whirling around trying to
clean everything up, and then I'd feel resentful because the kids
weren't helping me enough, and then I'd start hollering at everyone.
Look out -- Mama's on a rampage! Sound familiar?

After the house was clean, I'd manage to calm down and apologize to
everyone for my horrible outburst. Well...whatever it takes to get
the house clean once a week is probably worth it in the long run.
*grin*

> I have noticed
> as they get older I seem to start to
> pull away from them. My mother was never
> what I would call a very loving mom.
> I am afraid I am just like her. I am
> trying to break the cycle.

All I have to say is "Good for you!" You CAN break the cycle, and
your self-awareness shows that you're able to get outside yourself
enough to analyze the situation. I think we all worry about patterning
after our mom's negative side (esp. when we hear ourselves yelling
angry words or walking around with a big frown on our face). It's
the empathy we have with our children that brings us through, though.
I am always remembering what it was like to be a child, and I try
to get that message across to my "adult" side -- the side that wants
everything to be orderly and proper and controlled. (Control? With
four little kids in the house? HA!!!)

> I want to
> show them I love them but it is hard
> when all they can seem to do is fight
> and disobey.

Try an experiment. For three days, don't scold anyone. Intervene,
when necessary, to prevent loss of life or limb, but promise yourself
to take a 3-day vacation from angry words AND feelings. I like this
approach because 3 days seems do-able, and that "adult" side won't
worry about irreparable damage if the kids aren't disciplined for
just three days. If my own experience is any guide, you will be AMAZED.
Oh, yeah -- don't scold yourself, either. Three days -- no scolding.
It's as simple as that. See what happens. (I'm betting on miracles.)

> I am the only disciplinarian
> in the house. Dh is great, just not
> in this area. I feel like they are going
> to hate me. Would it be better for them
> and me to spend less time together?

No. What would be better is to spend more happy time together. The
happiness, I must say, begins with mom. Concentrate on every little
tiny thing that's good and try to take real pleasure in each of those
good things. You might have to change your whole frame of reference
to do this, but it's worth it, believe me.

This was really brought home to me one time when I read something
by a homeschooling mother who was talking about teaching good handwriting
skills (of all things!). She said she learned to point out instances
of when her child had formed a certain letter correctly, instead of
when he had messed one up. That is, when she looked at a page of writing,
she'd say, "Wow, you made this "f" right here so beautifully!" Concept!
This had never occurred to me before. *I* was the kind of mom who
looked at a page of writing and said, "Good grief, look at that "c"
-- I can barely tell what it's supposed to be."

This principle can be put into service all across the board. Behavior,
school work, eating habits, you name it. Notice and comment on the
good stuff. It can make a world of difference in everyone's attitude,
including our own.

> Told you I am failing at this. Sorry
> to ramble, I guess I am just letting
> go of concerns that I have kept bottled
> up.

Well, parenting is HARD. It is! And our society doesn't give us nearly
enough support or credit for it. Everyone expects us to do it in our
sleep, somehow, as if it were no big deal. We're also expected to
shine in some other field of endeavor (to prove we're not JUST mothers
and housewives), and that makes it doubly tough.

Raising a bunch of little children takes everything we've got. It's
not a sideline; I don't believe it's possible to do it "in our spare
time." Just a few years down the road, you'll have more time for YOU
(take my word for it), but right now you're in the thick of it, and
you just have to muddle through as best you can. The really important
thing is to try to have fun and smile every chance you get.

And see if March doesn't put you in a better frame of mind!

Cerelle

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  I think everyone experiments, including the schools
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Thursday, 25 February 1999, at 10:43 a.m.

 Response To:  Re: Hang on, Susan! We've ALL been there...
      Author:  Sue
        Date:  Thursday, 25 February 1999, at 7:12 a.m.



Hi, Sue--

I laughed when I read about your husband's comment that the kids'
education "is not an experiment." I understand what he meant -- that
it's too important to be taken lightly. But goodness -- we're all
experimenters extraordinaire.

Even the schools, bless their hearts, experiment every time they put
a new educational theory to the test. New math, whole language? Experiments,
pure and simple. I remember when "Social Studies" replaced geography.
That was an experiment, too.

Moreover, parenting is always an experiment in itself, even though
raising children is certainly too important a job to be taken lightly.
Unless we do everything EXACTLY the way our parents did it, we're
experimenting. Even if we follow some parenting guru's advice to the
letter, we're still engaging in a grand experiment because we don't
have any way of knowing how those recommended methods will affect
our own children. We're just hoping for the best.

In point of fact, we've always referred to our decision to homeschool
as "The Grand Experiment." There surely aren't any guarantees in this
business. The best we can do is make an educated guess about what
our children need and what will foster their growth and happiness.

If we DON'T experiment with their education ourselves -- that is,
if we simply put them in public school and let the schools be in charge
of all the educational and social experiments being done on them --
we still don't have any assurance that they'll be well-educated when
they finish their 12/13 years in the system. As I look at it, we homeschoolers
don't have that much to lose. The very fact that we have that feeling
of being ultimately responsible for how they turn out sort of guarantees
that SOMEONE will really care about their educational journey.

Cerelle

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: I hope this helps....I have a 13 yo boy...
      AUTHOR:  Susan
        DATE:  Thursday, 25 February 1999, at 6:17 p.m.

 Response To:  I hope this helps....I have a 13 yo boy...
      Author:  Haley
        Date:  Wednesday, 24 February 1999, at 7:55 p.m.



Thanks, everybody, for such wonderful encouragement! Even though the
whole family is now down with flu in varying stages, I still check
this board daily for my dose of support--thank you! Thank you! Thank
you!

Susan

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Privacy in shared room
      AUTHOR:  Allie
        DATE:  Thursday, 25 February 1999, at 7:49 p.m.

 Response To:  Privacy in shared room
      Author:  Susan M
        Date:  Tuesday, 23 February 1999, at 10:49 p.m.



Hi Susan, I'm new to this board, but my 2 boys are heading in the
same direction yours are, so I thought I would offer a few ideas.
We don't have any money for construction either, so I've been looking
through decorating books to get some ideas. You could hang up curtains,
up near the ceiling, get some bargain fabric...or put up plywood dividers,
folding screens, anything to block their view of each other. My boys
have bunk beds, and they're young yet, but when things get too intense,
I send one up to their room, and the other stays downstairs. After
a couple of hours, peace is restored. Hope this helps...I'll be there
soon! Allie

> We live in a small two-bedroom
> house, and so my two boys--ages 12 and
> 15--must share a room. Lately with the
> constant rain (we live in western Oregon)
> and no place to get away from each other,
> the bickering has gotten rather intense.
> They both feel it would help if they
> had someplace private. They are coming
> up with ideas like putting curtains
> around their beds, rearranging furniture,
> etc.

> So, those of you who live in close
> quarters, what ways have you found for
> your children to have some privacy,
> even when they must share a room? (We
> have no money for any kind of construction,
> so adding on a room is not an option.)
> Thanks for any ideas you can offer!
>

> Susan M

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: What if I fail???
      AUTHOR:  Sue
        DATE:  Thursday, 25 February 1999, at 8:07 p.m.

 Response To:  What if I fail???
      Author:  Denise
        Date:  Wednesday, 24 February 1999, at 11:51 a.m.



Denise, I think we have all felt what you are feeling at some point.
You get worn down and need a break. I have kids 6,5 and 2 and sometimes
I feel like they chase me around the house. I get busy and they get
demanding so I get busier and they get more demanding. I have broken
that cycle myself on days I am just plain worn out by having a "read
aloud day". We have been reading Little House books by Laura Ingalls
Wilder so I put a fire in the fireplace, get out the book and we all
sit around in our pj's all day reading the book. The youngest will
either play in the room with blocks etc. or grab the book away so
he could get some attention. So we take a break, I give him some attention
until he's happy the we pick up where we left off in the story. The
kids love it because I am right there in one spot. One day of no chasing
Mom down. Granted no housework gets done and the house is a mess but
the kids are happier and in the long run I have more time. I have
also found that I have to greatly reduce my outside activities. My
kids are not enrolled in anything but choir at church. I figure they
have plenty of time for other activities later. God Bless.

Sue

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Professional educators in the family
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Friday, 26 February 1999, at 1:33 a.m.

 Response To:  Re: Dont Give Up
      Author:  Susan
        Date:  Tuesday, 23 February 1999, at 8:14 a.m.



Susan,

I re-read this post of yours tonight and began thinking about the
change in attitude I've witnessed in our extended family over the
last decade or so. Some homeschoolers are lucky enough to have supportive
families from the get-go, but most of us aren't so fortunate.

For us, it was a long, uphill battle. And because we live close to
our families and care about their opinion of us (up to a point, anyway),
it was hard to endure their skepticism in the beginning. My husband
and I felt we were doing the right thing, but that didn't mean we
were immune to criticism from the outside.

Professional educators have a lot invested in the system. They believe
in it, or they wouldn't be doing what they're doing, and even if they
have frustrations with certain aspects of their jobs, they usually
feel called upon to defend the overall philosophy behind traditional
schooling. I tried to understand that, but it's tough when people
you really care about feel shocked, embarrassed, and resentful about
what they perceive as a challenge to their life's work.

All I can tell you is that we emerged triumphant. Even our most critical
family members finally had to concede that SOMETHING we were doing
seemed to be working. My own schoolteacher mother, who I'm sure used
to cry herself to sleep every night over my outrageous decision to
homeschool her only grandchildren, eventually warmed to the whole
idea when she saw those same children growing up with healthy attitudes
and curious minds. There are still things she doesn't "get" -- because
they go against everything she was ever taught -- but she can't quibble
with the results.

Your proof will be in the pudding. Believe that with all your heart.
When you need to divest yourself of your deepest fears and doubts,
do it around stalwart friends who will understand and be supportive.
Meanwhile, keep a stiff upper lip in front of the naysayers, and try
not to hand them any amunition they can use against you. At least,
that's always been my M.O. I'm not advocating dishonesty, but I do
believe in practicing the "need to know" rule. Your harshest critics
don't need to know that you're experiencing doubt, or that you've
been letting the kids stay up past midnight, or that you only do math
with them once a week (if you're lucky). These are the little secrets
you can afford to reveal AFTER they're all in college on huge scholarships.
;-)

Cerelle

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Thank you.....
      AUTHOR:  Denise
        DATE:  Friday, 26 February 1999, at 6:52 a.m.

 Response To:  What if I fail???
      Author:  Denise
        Date:  Wednesday, 24 February 1999, at 11:51 a.m.



This hits me every couple of months or so. It's usually triggered
by an encounter with another child who is way ahead of mine or a comment
from MIL. I start to question my ability to teach them what they need
to know. I have relied on my internet HS friends to help me through
these low points and I would like to be on the other side helping
other people for a change. I guess the more experience and confidence
I have, it will come.

I am totally committed to this, except on certain days-LOL, I am afraid
that 5 years down the road my in-laws will find out they were right!
The kids are way behind and I have to send them to school. They aren't
behind now, but I can see that this year we have spent little time
doing schoolwork. I really don't have a good curriculum yet that has
worked out for us.

I forget that as they get older they will start to do these little
things themselves. With that many little ones they get so demanding.

Thank you so much for your help. God Bless

P.S. I can't blame it on the weather, I live in sunny FL!!!

> Has anyone ever just given up?
> I do not want to put my kids in school,
> but I can't seem to handle the pressure
> of all that goes with HSing. Trying
> to be active in church, teach the kids,
> have a house that I can at least stand
> to look at, do HS activities, gymnastics,
> piano, ballet, cook, do the bills, I
> could go on, but you know firsthand.
> This is my second year HSing. I feel
> like a failure. Most of the time I am
> too tired to do anything. I might have
> school 3 days a week. My kids are 7,5,4,
> and 1 and just trying to take care of
> them 24/7 is stressful. Don't get me
> wrong, I love them more than life itself,
> but I feel like I am hurting them more
> by keeping them at home. I have noticed
> as they get older I seem to start to
> pull away from them. My mother was never
> what I would call a very loving mom.
> I am afraid I am just like her. I am
> trying to break the cycle. I want to
> show them I love them but it is hard
> when all they can seem to do is fight
> and disobey. I am the only disciplinarian
> in the house. Dh is great, just not
> in this area. I feel like they are going
> to hate me. Would it be better for them
> and me to spend less time together?
> Has anyone felt this or is it just me?
> Told you I am failing at this. Sorry
> to ramble, I guess I am just letting
> go of concerns that I have kept bottled
> up. One of the reasons I decided to
> HS was because I hoped it would bring
> me closer to the kids. I have prayed
> about this for years and I am trying,
> it just doesn't seem good enough. The
> added pressure of trying to teach them
> has sent me overboard and I feel trapped.
> I will not hand them over to the public
> school, but I don't have the money to
> send them to a christian school. So
> I have to figure this out somehow. I
> have read so many encouraging posts
> already. Is there someone out there
> who has felt what I am feeling? Thank
> you, and God bless!

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Seasons in your life plus other musings
      AUTHOR:  Giovanna
        DATE:  Friday, 26 February 1999, at 9:05 a.m.

 Response To:  What if I fail???
      Author:  Denise
        Date:  Wednesday, 24 February 1999, at 11:51 a.m.



> Has anyone ever just given up?

Tons of people have.

> I do not want to put my kids in school,
> but I can't seem to handle the pressure
> of all that goes with HSing. Trying
> to be active in church, teach the kids,
> have a house that I can at least stand
> to look at, do HS activities, gymnastics,
> piano, ballet, cook, do the bills, I
> could go on, but you know firsthand.

I wouldn't be able to homeschool either if I had all of this stuff
going on. No wonder you are losing your sanity!

I attended a seminar about 2 years ago that literally changed my life.
The speaker of the seminar said that we need to start looking at our
life in terms of "seasons". He said that your life as a single person
in college is a "season", your life as a newly-married couple is a
"season", you life as a young mother of toddlers is another "season".
All of these seasons are different. The demands are different. Your
responsibilities are different.

It is impossible to for a mother of toddlers to compare herself with
mother of older children and by that same respect it is impossible
to think that you can continue the same lifestyle you had before now
that you are homeschooling.

What I mean by all of this is that you need to give yourself a break
and get rid of the "guilty feelings." It is perfectly OK to say no
to certain church activities. It is certainly OK to say, "I can't
get involved at this time. Maybe later."

Everyone wants a piece of our time, ladies. Everyone from our church,
our neighbors, our friends, the boy scout troup, the little league
team. We cannot possibly give of ourselves so much and still have
something left over! No wonder we burn out!

We are in a "season" in our life when we have to concentrate on our
homes and our children. Later on the "season" will be different and
we will have more energy and time for other things.

On another note....

Driving the children all over the place IS exhausting and will drain
the life out of you. While I'm not against outside activities I am
opposed to children being pulled out of their home constantly to go
here and there. It is stressful on mom, stressful on the kids, mom
gets in a bad mood and no one is happy. Is the activity really worth
all of that???? One of my personal goals is to establish a home centered
lifestyle. I want our children to WANT to be home. My energies go
into making our home an exciting place to be. No wonder children don't
want to be home! We are always taking them somewhere ELSE!!! STAY
HOME! If you must have an activity pick ONE and do just that. Pick
something that the child is truly interested in...not something just
because they need "socialization."

>I have noticed
> as they get older I seem to start to
> pull away from them. My mother was never
> what I would call a very loving mom.
> I am afraid I am just like her.

It sound to me like you are exhausted. You need to sit down and really
evaluate what is going on. Mothers that stick with homeschooling do
it because they have a strong conviction and most of all... they have
a VISION! Are you lacking that?

>From reading your post I gather you are a Christian. I'm going to
post some URL's and I want you to go in those and read them. PLEASE!
I think they will be very helpful.

Go here:

http://www.tagnet.org/lolo/apmay97.html

http://www.tagnet.org/lolo/jan97.html

http://www.tagnet.org/lolo/junjul97.html

Warning: This is lengthy reading. You will probably not be able to
read it in one sitting. Please find time to read it though as I believe
it contains the answers you are looking for.

Giovanna

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Seasons in your life plus other musings
      AUTHOR:  Denise
        DATE:  Friday, 26 February 1999, at 11:30 a.m.

 Response To:  Seasons in your life plus other musings
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Friday, 26 February 1999, at 9:05 a.m.



Well, as far as the outside activities go, I have studied them from
birth to try and help them find their talent. They are only allowed
to take one activity at a time.

The biggest strain I guess is on the part of my 5yod's talent. We
knew from the time she was 1 that gymnastics would be her thing, little
did we know what was involved after everyone else noticed. From the
time she was 3 she has been trained to compete. This is her first
year as a level 3 competing. That means we are at the gym 3 days a
week, for now, and go out of town a lot. I work there on those days
to pay for it. God has given her this great ability so how can I not
see her through this. I have mentioned taking her off the team just
in passing to my husband, and she was crying by the time I could tell
her I wasn't going to do that.

My son has a musical ear so he takes piano. My 4yog enjoys everything.
I haven't pinpointed hers yet, but she wanted to take ballet.

I understand what you are saying, but I hope that one day they might
be able to use these talents for the Lord. I feel the need to make
sure they have mastered them by the time they get to be an adult,
providing they wish to continue.

Am I missing the big picture? Please help me to see. I have read in
many books that it is not necesssary to provide these outside activies
too. I wish my mother had given me an opportunity to find mine though.

More to ponder....

>

> Tons of people have.

> I wouldn't be able to homeschool
> either if I had all of this stuff going
> on. No wonder you are losing your sanity!
>

> I attended a seminar about 2 years
> ago that literally changed my life.
> The speaker of the seminar said that
> we need to start looking at our life
> in terms of "seasons". He
> said that your life as a single person
> in college is a "season",
> your life as a newly-married couple
> is a "season", you life as
> a young mother of toddlers is another
> "season". All of these seasons
> are different. The demands are different.
> Your responsibilities are different.
>

> It is impossible to for a mother
> of toddlers to compare herself with
> mother of older children and by that
> same respect it is impossible to think
> that you can continue the same lifestyle
> you had before now that you are homeschooling.
>

> What I mean by all of this is that
> you need to give yourself a break and
> get rid of the "guilty feelings."
> It is perfectly OK to say no to certain
> church activities. It is certainly OK
> to say, "I can't get involved at
> this time. Maybe later."

> Everyone wants a piece of our time,
> ladies. Everyone from our church, our
> neighbors, our friends, the boy scout
> troup, the little league team. We cannot
> possibly give of ourselves so much and
> still have something left over! No wonder
> we burn out!

> We are in a "season"
> in our life when we have to concentrate
> on our homes and our children. Later
> on the "season" will be different
> and we will have more energy and time
> for other things.

> On another note....

> Driving the children all over the
> place IS exhausting and will drain the
> life out of you. While I'm not against
> outside activities I am opposed to children
> being pulled out of their home constantly
> to go here and there. It is stressful
> on mom, stressful on the kids, mom gets
> in a bad mood and no one is happy. Is
> the activity really worth all of that????
> One of my personal goals is to establish
> a home centered lifestyle. I want our
> children to WANT to be home. My energies
> go into making our home an exciting
> place to be. No wonder children don't
> want to be home! We are always taking
> them somewhere ELSE!!! STAY HOME! If
> you must have an activity pick ONE and
> do just that. Pick something that the
> child is truly interested in...not something
> just because they need "socialization."
>

> It sound to me like you are exhausted.
> You need to sit down and really evaluate
> what is going on. Mothers that stick
> with homeschooling do it because they
> have a strong conviction and most of
> all... they have a VISION! Are you lacking
> that?

> From reading your post I gather
> you are a Christian. I'm going to post
> some URL's and I want you to go in those
> and read them. PLEASE! I think they
> will be very helpful.

> Go here:

> http://www.tagnet.org/lolo/apmay97.html
>

> http://www.tagnet.org/lolo/jan97.html
>

> http://www.tagnet.org/lolo/junjul97.html
>

> Warning: This is lengthy reading.
> You will probably not be able to read
> it in one sitting. Please find time
> to read it though as I believe it contains
> the answers you are looking for.

> Giovanna

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Outside Activities
      AUTHOR:  Giovanna
        DATE:  Friday, 26 February 1999, at 12:45 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: Seasons in your life plus other musings
      Author:  Denise
        Date:  Friday, 26 February 1999, at 11:30 a.m.



> Am I missing the big picture? Please
> help me to see. I have read in many
> books that it is not necesssary to provide
> these outside activies too. I wish my
> mother had given me an opportunity to
> find mine though.

I believe when a child has a special talent and mom or dad cannot
help them succeed with it at home (gymnastics, piano are both good
examples) then yes it's great for them to get formal training and
lessons.

"ARE YOU MISSING THE BIG PICTURE?", YOU ASK.

I cannot tell you what is right for your family You have to decide
that on your own. :-) You need to weigh the pros and cons to this
and prayerfully decide whether the stress these activities are adding
to your life are worth it or not. Your children are still very, very
young and maybe holding off a few years until they are older to start
these activities may not be such a bad idea. What is the end goal?
To have an olympian gymnast? If that is the goal (nothing wrong with
that) then early training is important. If that is not the goal then
waiting a few more years is not going to hurt but actually alleviate
the stress you have going right now. Same with your young pianist.
They can still flourish at home in other areas and the atmosphere
in your home will not be as stressful during these young years when
their biggest need is to be nurtured by their mommy.

What I'm saying is this:

Look at what you've got going at home right now. Ask yourself if any
or all of it is absolutely crucial at this point in their lives. Is
it crucial that a four year old take ballet? Don't add to an already
overflowing schedule and try to keep things simple. The right time
(and season) will come for all of these things.

I don't know you personally but I'm willing to bet there are other
stressors in your life besides the outside outings. Church, for example,
can sometimes be a huge time consuming stressor. We attend church
and we help in our Wednesday night children's program. You'd flip
though if you knew just how involved we were before we made a decision
to cut back. I look back and wonder how we did all of that! Now I
realize that it was not really God calling me to do all of these things
but a misplaced desire in me and maybe a little fear of "man."

The bottom line is this:

Don't be afraid to say NO. Your responsibility is to your children
in this "season" in your life. Later on you will be able to get involved
in other things. I've met many women who feel totally guilty at having
to decline invitations to lead or attend this Bible study or that
prayer group. The Lord's yolk is easy and His burden is light. He
does not call us into burn out! If you are experiencing burn out then
something is wrong. Changes need to be made. Decisions need to be
taken.

Please read the links I posted in my other message. I think you will
be greatly encouraged.

Giovanna

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Outside Activities
      AUTHOR:  Kim from Sidetracks
        DATE:  Friday, 26 February 1999, at 4:37 p.m.

 Response To:  Outside Activities
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Friday, 26 February 1999, at 12:45 p.m.



Boy- do I feel like a slug !! We have one activity- 4 kids - ONE activity.
AWANA:-) and it is plenty for me to get them all organized for their
one night a week out.

Every so often I have those "dance/ gymnastics" thoughts.... but they
don't last long ! My dh keeps harping at me about HOCKEY ! I told
him that if he wants them in hockey, then HE can take care of it !
ALL of it. Signing them up, taking them to practice at 6 am, buying
all the junk they need, going to the fundraisers, going to the away
games, paying for all the $$$ stuff at the away games... ALL of it.
Strangely enough- they all ended up in AWANA- not hockey ! ;-)

I have a couple of positions at church, too- but they are very minimal
and do not take ANY of my family time (a meeting every other month
and after the kids are in bed) My family has to come FIRST.

There is only SO much that any one mom can do before she goes squirrely
! And yes, I agree on that weather thing, too. Cabin fever is making
it's third go around this winter. And NO I won't feel better next
month... Maybe MAY.... :-(

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  That makes a lot of sense!
      AUTHOR:  Denise
        DATE:  Friday, 26 February 1999, at 6:18 p.m.

 Response To:  Outside Activities
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Friday, 26 February 1999, at 12:45 p.m.



I know she will never make it to the olympics, 7 girls every 4 years,
I don't think so. I really am not sure about my goal except that she
could get a college scholarship, which may or may not be in her future.
I need to really sit down and think about this one. It is very hard
on the family, especially dh.

Yeah, we have many church activities: we teach Sunday School, help
out with team kids and R.A's on Wed. night, and recreation commitee.

Boy, just writing down all this is making me tired. Something must
be sinking in to this thick skull of mine.

Thanks guys, you have helped me to see that I don't "have" to do all
of these.

God Bless!

>

> I believe when a child has a special
> talent and mom or dad cannot help them
> succeed with it at home (gymnastics,
> piano are both good examples) then yes
> it's great for them to get formal training
> and lessons.

> "ARE YOU MISSING THE BIG PICTURE?",
> YOU ASK.

> I cannot tell you what is right
> for your family You have to decide that
> on your own. :-) You need to weigh the
> pros and cons to this and prayerfully
> decide whether the stress these activities
> are adding to your life are worth it
> or not. Your children are still very,
> very young and maybe holding off a few
> years until they are older to start
> these activities may not be such a bad
> idea. What is the end goal? To have
> an olympian gymnast? If that is the
> goal (nothing wrong with that) then
> early training is important. If that
> is not the goal then waiting a few more
> years is not going to hurt but actually
> alleviate the stress you have going
> right now. Same with your young pianist.
> They can still flourish at home in other
> areas and the atmosphere in your home
> will not be as stressful during these
> young years when their biggest need
> is to be nurtured by their mommy.

> What I'm saying is this:

> Look at what you've got going at
> home right now. Ask yourself if any
> or all of it is absolutely crucial at
> this point in their lives. Is it crucial
> that a four year old take ballet? Don't
> add to an already overflowing schedule
> and try to keep things simple. The right
> time (and season) will come for all
> of these things.

> I don't know you personally but
> I'm willing to bet there are other stressors
> in your life besides the outside outings.
> Church, for example, can sometimes be
> a huge time consuming stressor. We attend
> church and we help in our Wednesday
> night children's program. You'd flip
> though if you knew just how involved
> we were before we made a decision to
> cut back. I look back and wonder how
> we did all of that! Now I realize that
> it was not really God calling me to
> do all of these things but a misplaced
> desire in me and maybe a little fear
> of "man."

> The bottom line is this:

> Don't be afraid to say NO. Your
> responsibility is to your children in
> this "season" in your life.
> Later on you will be able to get involved
> in other things. I've met many women
> who feel totally guilty at having to
> decline invitations to lead or attend
> this Bible study or that prayer group.
> The Lord's yolk is easy and His burden
> is light. He does not call us into burn
> out! If you are experiencing burn out
> then something is wrong. Changes need
> to be made. Decisions need to be taken.
>

> Please read the links I posted
> in my other message. I think you will
> be greatly encouraged.

> Giovanna

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: That makes a lot of sense!
      AUTHOR:  Lisa Torres
        DATE:  Saturday, 27 February 1999, at 4:12 a.m.

 Response To:  That makes a lot of sense!
      Author:  Denise
        Date:  Friday, 26 February 1999, at 6:18 p.m.



I have a daughter who is talented in gymnastics, too. She is 12. We
searched and searched for programs which would meet her needs/abilities,
but not require 3-4 nights per week. (She is level 5 right now). Some
of our solutions over the years included: keeping her in the recreational
program, despite the pressure from the gym to move her to the competitive
track; enrolling her in an intensive summer recreational program in
our town (they do a show at the end, but no competition); paying an
older gymnast (level 10) to come to our house once a week to work
with her; and enrolling her in a gym which only does "fun" meets,
and whose team meets only twice a week. That gym has (temporarily,
we hope) lost its lease, in the meantime she is in a recreational
program with a coach who can work with her at her level. This spring/summer
she may do some cross-training (track or swimming). I've seen many
talented gymnasts (including the girl who used to give my dd private
lessons) burn out and quit! My daughter's best friend had been doing
4 or 5 days a week at a gym 50 miles from her home since grade 1 (she's
now in grade 6). Her mom told me she was counting on making the cost
back in college scholarships. But guess what? The girl quit this year!
Gymnastics is tough on the body and the soul, I think, so feel free
to just slow down a bit and keep it enjoyable!

> I know she will never make it to
> the olympics, 7 girls every 4 years,
> I don't think so. I really am not sure
> about my goal except that she could
> get a college scholarship, which may
> or may not be in her future. I need
> to really sit down and think about this
> one. It is very hard on the family,
> especially dh.

> Yeah, we have many church activities:
> we teach Sunday School, help out with
> team kids and R.A's on Wed. night, and
> recreation commitee.

> Boy, just writing down all this
> is making me tired. Something must be
> sinking in to this thick skull of mine.
>

> Thanks guys, you have helped me
> to see that I don't "have"
> to do all of these.

> God Bless!

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  What has happened to Family Life?????????
      AUTHOR:  c.giddens
        DATE:  Saturday, 27 February 1999, at 11:16 a.m.



First I would like to express thanks to the ladies who come up with
this months topic. I have really enjoyed reading the post (when I
found time to get away from everything else and have some refreshing
time for "Socializing". I have really been pondering in my heart this
month alot of things. Of course I have had some things to come up
to cause this pondering also. I know that times have changed and the
cost of living is up, but what happen to the days when we were happy
so share "1" coke,..... "1" candy bar.... ect. Now days seem like
we all have to have something for "OURSELF" . I feel like that I am
missing it somewhere on the true purpose of Family life. We try to
maintain our bountries around the farm. We don't venture out to all
the outside activities. My son has "1" outside activity(Piano). He
loves Music. I know that I sound as if I am wondering in La, La, Land,
but I visited with one of my Aunts just last week and her home was
the same then as it was 20yrs ago, I'm talking same walls (No new
paint job.) and all. I was very impressed!! She seems so content just
to be alive. Sometimes I feel in the 90's its came to the point that
we have to keep up with everyone. I agree so much with you ladies
who were talking about "Seasons" in our life. Why is it SO hard to
realize this and not feel so pressured to follow the CROWD. Am I the
only one feeling like this. I really don't want to follow the crowd,
but even at my local church I feel like people are judging me by the
way we try to live and the way we try to put our family first. Folks
I see it in our churches more that anywhere to try to be very Competetive.
Trying to keep up with each other. This is so sad to me!! I feel that
my family is missing it somewhere. I love just staying right here
on the farm and we have fun doing it. We have cows, and plenty of
outdoor space for my ds to enjoy being a boy, but then someone....
comes along and says ....you need to let him be a boy and join in
with the children that are having fun. Well I look at that and I have
to say.....Are the children really having fun living a life in such
a rush being carried from school to this ball game to that one and
then to other activies and sometimes not even being able to set down
and have a meal at at a table with their Father and Mother, then I
realize that I am right where God wants me to be. I have the same
problem at work sometimes. I work part-time and when you start telling
folks how much you enjoy being with your family and how important
they are to you, they just look at you like "HOW DO YOU HAVE TIME
FOR A FAMILY LIFE" I quess what I am trying to say is we are living
SO FAST>Is it wrong to slow down and smell the roses. Because lately
I have gotten several impressions that WORKING OUTSIDE the Home is
THE WAY TO GO. I enjoy being here with my ds. Yes we do get cabin
fever. Of course the weather hasn't been really bad here so by afternoon
he can have his outside play time and I can have my time. 24hours
a day is a long time to be with each other day in and day out but
I want to hang in there during this "Season" of my life. Only my father
above knows what the next "Season may hold". Long years ago families
would catch a horse and buggy (start on Friday) just to get to have
an all day stay with a family on Sunday. Today we have automobiles
and we don't seem to even have time to visit with Grandma and Grandpa.
We have "OUR own busy schedule. I enjoy hearing stories where cousins,
aunts, uncles and brothers and sisters got together and enjoyed each
other. To me this is "GOOD SOCIALIZATION" But the fast world we live
in thinks that socialization is have every kind of friend but "FAMILY"
Move not the old Landmarks, lets keep moving on to keep our children
on a courts in our Ballgame. I hope that I did not ramble to much.
God Bless you all and I have really enjoyed reading your post on this
month's topic. I can't wait to see what is in story for March.......


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: What has happened to Family Life?????????
      AUTHOR:  Giovanna
        DATE:  Saturday, 27 February 1999, at 1:08 p.m.

 Response To:  What has happened to Family Life?????????
      Author:  c.giddens
        Date:  Saturday, 27 February 1999, at 11:16 a.m.



I really enjoyed reading your note. Thank you for posting.

The focus of this society IS NOT THE HOME. It hasn't been for a long,
long time. We have more broken marriages then we've ever had, more
runaway teens, more dysfunctional families, more children wanting
out than ever before. We now even have children "divorcing" their
parents. So yes, in a way you are "strange" in wanting the lifestyle
that you have. You are not the norm.

Why has this happened? There are many factors. One of them is the
fragmentation of the family. This starts early.... sometimes right
at birth. Many would like to assure us the sending our 3 or four year
old to school is the best thing you can to so that they are assured
of a solid "start". I talked to a mother who sends her two year child
to day care because the toddler is "just way too attached and needs
to be comfortable with other people." A TWO YEAR OLD BABY????

This mom has believed a lie that society feeds all of us on a daily
basis. From very early we are pushing away our children. We orchestrate
their life so that their fullfilment is not found within the home
but rather outside the home. This goes on and on and then we wonder
why, as preteens, they'd rather be with their friends more than with
their family or we wonder why they can't wait to be legal age so that
they can leave home.

You've also correctly noticed that the church has also believed THE
BIG LIE. Now when you walk into church there is a place for everyone
depending on their age. The family arrives at church and everyone
goes off to meet with their age appropriate group. There isn't family
unity in the church either. Too many church programs and a lot of
separation there as well.

I have theory.

....Sort of an off the wall theory but let me share it with you all
nonetheless.

Do you see the boredom that is so prevalent in our youth? Do you see
them "hanging out" at the malls without purpose? They lack vision.
My theory? I personally feel this is very much related to this insistence
our society has of pushing our children out the door.

Why do I say this?

In finding a million and one things to get our children involved in
we send indirect messages to our children that HOME is not a worthwhile
place to be. Instead of investing our energies in making our home
an exciting place to be we ship them out the door only to meet at
home to sleep and for some dinner (maybe). Our children get so accustomed
to being outside the home (because they are at school all day then
at the art class, then at boy scouts, and don't forget the afterschool
program) that they don't relate to staying home. Their heart is not
there. Their "home" is out in the street. The comfort, fun, excitement
has nothing to do with home.

But you know? Homeschoolers are sometimes not any different. Homeschoolers
also buy into this lifestyle.

Granted, not everyone lives in a farm where lots is going on. Some
of us live in apartments, in condos, or in a house with a small backyard.

It doesn't matter though. A *HOME* is not so much a structure but
more like the atmosphere that mom and dad create. It is wise to allow
our children to find meaningful purpose at home. When we are constantly
out of the home they can't find it. Plus staying home makes for more
relaxed children and of course a much more relaxed mommy. There has
been times when my son has been engrossed in a Lego project and I
have to tell him, "Time to go. Put your shoes on." He leaves his project
and puts on his shoes. I hate interrupting him like that though. Imagine
if children were happy at home, engrossed in books, in Lego projects,
in a garden outside, listening to classical music on the radio, baking
a cake. Imagine children content with being home? This can be a reality
if we encourage an interesting atmosphere within our home.

Giovanna

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: What has happened to Family Life???? (more)
      AUTHOR:  Giovanna
        DATE:  Saturday, 27 February 1999, at 1:32 p.m.

 Response To:  What has happened to Family Life?????????
      Author:  c.giddens
        Date:  Saturday, 27 February 1999, at 11:16 a.m.



Let me copy a portion of a newsletter written by Marilyn Howshall
called "Lifestyle of Learning". She explains (much better than I can)
why it is important that our children's hearts are cemented in the
home and what could happen to children in their teens when it isn't.

......................

It is sad today, for Jim to listen to the woes of the men at work
complaining about their young teenagers (12-13 years old) whose sole
purpose in life seems to be “hanging out” at the mall with friends.
Jim feels helpless as he knows that there are no easy answers for
those families.

Let me tell you a true story about our daughter, Kathryn. She was
fourteen years old when she was just becoming aware of a peer culture
of which she had not been a part. One day we were stopping at the
corner country store six miles from the farm where we lived at the
time. As we walked across the parking lot to the wooden front porch,
I noticed two teenage girls about Kathryn’s age. They were sitting
together on the porch bench. They looked like typical girls, both
had similar hairstyles worn in modern fashion, both wore nearly identical
outfits. I noticed that they stopped to look at Kathryn who has never
looked typical. She wore her thigh-length hair in a braid and possessed
a “natural” appearance. This “look” was not imposed upon her by me,
she simply felt comfortable with who she was.

We went into the store without a word, in fact it did not appear to
me that Kathryn even noticed the girls watching her cross the parking
lot. When we came out of the store the girls were still sitting there
and again they looked at Kathryn. This time Kathryn looked back, not
once but a couple of times. When we reached the car Kathryn asked
me what they were doing. I said they were just visiting together.
She asked again as though she had not heard me. I said they were “hanging-out”
together--it was a perfect sunny day for it. Kathryn was not satisfied;
she began to get frustrated in her apparent lack of ability to communicate
exactly what she wanted me to understand. She said again, “But, what
are they doing?” Then I began to explain to her what many teenage
girls lives were like.

I reminded her that the girls went to school. That meant that their
lives are centered outside their homes--elsewhere with people that
are not their family. When they are at home, they usually do not know
what to do with themselves because home is not where their purpose
lies. In addition, they are burned out from too much learning activity
of the type that produces dullness in them. Because of this, boredom
of the soul is a common condition among teens. This is not their fault;
one of the few options they know to do is to “hang out” with their
friends when they are out of school. Kathryn still had a hard time
with it. She answered that even when she and her brother had friends
over they would always do lots of purposeful things together. I acknowledged,
“Yes, this is true, but your lives at home have been rich with purpose
and you have much to share with your friends.” I went on to explain
that many teenagers do not have the freedom to discover and develop
a unique life-purpose while they are still growing up. An artificial
substitute, that they would not choose for themselves, is enforced
upon them for twelve of the best years of their lives--the years designed
by God that should be used to help the child mature in proper values,
strong character and unique purpose. It is somewhat like having your
life on hold until you are eighteen. Then, it seems that you are suddenly
supposed to know what you are doing with your life and even then many
never find out until much later. They have to use their adult life
to explore their uniqueness, discover their interests, and attempt
to develop their abilities into marketable skills. Some never do.

I then helped her to understand that I was much the same way as those
girls when I was that age. I was not connected to the goings-on of
the family household. I lived a very selfish existence and when I
was at home during free-time my primary thought were for dress and
boys. I helped her to see that life for teenagers in school is normal
for them. They have few choices, whereas Kathryn and her brother had
many.

.........

If you would like to read the complete article, please go here:

http://www.tagnet.org/lolo/apmay97.html

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: What has happened to Family Life?????????
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Saturday, 27 February 1999, at 1:34 p.m.

 Response To:  What has happened to Family Life?????????
      Author:  c.giddens
        Date:  Saturday, 27 February 1999, at 11:16 a.m.



I think there are still many families who enjoy being together and
who spend lots of time at home. You just don't see them out and around
that much. ;-)

Seriously, I do think home & hearth have all but disappeared from
the American landscape. It's probably a pendulum swing -- with any
luck, nostalgia alone will motivate our society to "come back home."

When my oldest was 8 or 9, I had to cut back on many of our outside
activities. I did this not so much because I was wise enough to see
that it would improve our quality of living, but because our financial
situation wouldn't allow us to continue paying for all the lessons,
uniforms, and the gasoline and car repairs required to keep us on
the go. But even as I did so, I worried that the kids might feel bored
or restless with "nowhere to go and nothing to do."

Well, it's just amazing how inventive and resourceful three little
kids can be. They'd spend the whole afternoon playing in the field
behind our house, happy as little clams. In bad weather, they'd set
up the Monopoly game and play for days on end. Or they'd all settle
down with books for a day and I wouldn't hear a peep out of them for
hours.

What Giovanna and others have said here about the reduction of stress
(when you're not chasing your own shadow trying to get everyone to
their various activities) is absolutely true. Those were peaceful
years. Now, of course, with teenagers, life's turned into a juggling
act again. The mall isn't a big draw, but there are jobs to get to,
meetings to attend, people to see! Of course, we still spend a good
deal of time at home, but it's not quite the same slow lifestyle we
used to enjoy. Another "season," perhaps.

Keeping up with the Joneses is always a losing proposition. Why should
I try to keep up with someone else? Let the Joneses try to keep up
with me, is what I say. We can all be leaders. We all have resources
and abilities that are uniquely our own. My house may be old and shabby
and falling down around my ears, but it's a happy place, and that's
enough for me.

Cerelle

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Seasons
      AUTHOR:  Giovanna
        DATE:  Saturday, 27 February 1999, at 1:53 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: What has happened to Family Life?????????
      Author:  Cerelle
        Date:  Saturday, 27 February 1999, at 1:34 p.m.



> Seriously, I do think home &
> hearth have all but disappeared from
> the American landscape. It's probably
> a pendulum swing -- with any luck, nostalgia
> alone will motivate our society to "come
> back home."

Some people believe this will, in fact, happen. Some people believe
it has already started to happen. The homeschooling movement is part
of this.

> What Giovanna and others have said
> here about the reduction of stress (when
> you're not chasing your own shadow trying
> to get everyone to their various activities)
> is absolutely true. Those were peaceful
> years. Now, of course, with teenagers,
> life's turned into a juggling act again.
> The mall isn't a big draw, but there
> are jobs to get to, meetings to attend,
> people to see! Of course, we still spend
> a good deal of time at home, but it's
> not quite the same slow lifestyle we
> used to enjoy. Another "season,"
> perhaps.

YES! That's exactly what it is. Another different season in your life
and in your children's life. The thing to remember is that if we "go
with the flow" these changes and seasons in our life will come naturally
and we won't "miss them." You will instinctively know when the right
time is to make changes, discover new things. The outings and jobs
all have REAL purpose. They have all happened at just the right time
and although I'm sure is no piece of cake driving teens to their jobs
or play rehearsals it is not anywhere as difficult or stressful as
doing the same with young children. The time is right for these things.
It is not a burden.

"There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under
heaven:

a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to
uproot, a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and
a time to build, a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn
and a time to dance, a time to scatter stones and a time to gather
them, a time to embrace and a time to refrain, a time to search and
a time to give up, a time to keep and a time to throw away, a time
to tear and a time to mend, a time to be silent and a time to speak,
a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace."
--Ecclesiates 3:1-8

And the same goes for our children and our homeschools. When the time
is right it all falls into place correctly.

Giovanna


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Life in the 1880s
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Saturday, 27 February 1999, at 2:37 p.m.



Quick, before we switch topics, I'd like to add another thought to
our earlier discussion here about "isolation" and family life.

I've been working on a major project this month: transcribing over
80 letters written during the 19th century by members of my husband's
family. We found these letters in his mom's attic and basement, and
few discoveries have ever given either one of us such a thrill.

Believe it or not, the content of some of these letters bears on our
discussion here. The bulk of them were written during the decade between
1880 and 1890, over a hundred years ago. The writers, for the most
part, were young mothers -- sisters and cousins staying in touch with
one across the miles of prairie that separated them in this developing
land (Texas, for the most part, but also Missouri and California).

These were farming families, struggling to make a go of it in a new
place. In their letters, the women discuss their efforts to teach
their young children to read and write. Yes -- they were homeschoolers!
By default, really, since the little settlements here in Texas didn't
have schools yet. I can't express how charming and reassuring these
letters are, or how inspired I am by them. These families were isolated,
but they were far from lacking in social skills. The devotion these
family members had for each other is evident in every line.

In a later letter (1916), an older brother from this same family recalls
his youth in Louisiana. Their mother did all the spinning, weaving,
and sewing for the family by hand, and as she did her daily chores,
she had her children read aloud to her: Tennyson, Shakespeare, Burns.
These were beautifully educated children -- out on the frontier, miles
from habitation. How could I read these memoirs and NOT be inspired?

As I work to record these treasures, I can't help admiring the remarkable
people in our past. These families overcame terrible hardships --
poverty, untimely death, hunger, and loneliness -- but they managed
to stick together, loving and faithful to one another, and always
hopeful about the future. They lived crammed together in little one-
and two-room cabins. They worried about their gardens, because without
a good vegetable harvest they might face scurvy (again). They felt
guilty for not spending more time on their children's academics (seriously!).
They rejoiced over every new birth and grieved for their terrible
losses, and their voices seem so close and so real.

I believe we could all learn a lot from these strong women who were
our forebears. I almost seem to feel their collective hand on my shoulder
as I copy their words into my computer. Take heart, those of you who
live in isolated conditions. And if you aren't well off financially,
be of good cheer. At least you probably don't have to worry about
scurvy, and your children probably aren't succumbing to cholera and
whooping cough. (We moderns take so much for granted, don't we?)

Cerelle


               ========================================

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