Digests from the KALEIDOSCAPES MONTHLY TOPIC
(HOMESCHOOLING) DISCUSSION BOARD
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Living With Children 24 Hours a Day Digest (part 2) MESSAGE: Our house AUTHOR: denise DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 2:47 p.m. Response To: True Confessions: Son still sleeping with parents! Author: Pam J. Date: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 10:34 p.m. There is a sleeping bag in the hall closet, and we have periods where our 8 year old (just turned 8) makes good use of it in our room. Every time we've moved (we are a military family so that's a lot), he has slept in our room until he is comfortable in his own room. It is usually a gradual thing, with him coming to our room during the night if he wakes up and is disoriented or afraid. I see nothing wrong with it, and in fact think it would be cruel to do anything differently. The reason we had him get in a sleeping bag initially was because no one (but him) got any sleep with the three of us in the bed. ======================================== MESSAGE: So what am I doing wrong? AUTHOR: Susan M DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 2:59 p.m. Response To: Kristen, you might be surprised... Author: Jole Date: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 6:19 a.m. > While many of my neighbors think > I'm nuts, I do not allow my children > to be disrespectful and hateful to each > other. I try my best not to allow it. We have family meetings and discuss how to treat each other. We discipline when we feel it is needed--separating them or forcing them to work things out. We have tried many methods, but it doesn't seem to work. My boys--ages 12 and 15--still constantly bug each other, call names (when I am not around), hit, etc. Mostly it is the bickering that drives me crazy. "Why did you look at me like that?" "I didn't look at you." "Yes, you did." etc., etc., etc. Any ideas? Susan M ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Alot going on here...Warning!! Whine session. AUTHOR: Sharron B. DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 4:51 p.m. Response To: Re: Alot going on here...Warning!! Whine session. Author: annette Date: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 8:23 a.m. One thing about home education is it happens even when you think you are not doing your best. We went through a season where my husband quit one job to begin his own business, my mother (78yo) took a fall that required 6 months of doctors, rehab, home care and much of my time for support etc. because she lives alone, and a "micro-burst" straight line wind weather hit that destroyed some of our property while homeschooling our two sons. We learned about trees,weather, bones and related nutritional studies for healing. I learned to be more giving, less of a perfectionist, and how to be an office manager for a small business.The boys gained a lot of confidence because I depended on them for small home chores. I found they could help out more than I thought and even showed great motivation to do so. Things have calmed down a bit now. Mom is better. Gardens are mending. The business is moving forward. My kitchen floor could use a cleaning.I guess that's O.K. The weather was great today. Dad took the boys to the Zoo. I have my own plans for the evening. Annette, everything changes. Each day has its own lesson planned. Hang in there. ======================================== MESSAGE: nothing - they are also responsible for their actions! :0) AUTHOR: sara DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 5:34 p.m. Response To: So what am I doing wrong? Author: Susan M Date: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 2:59 p.m. I think we as people who are very serious about parenting, feel that making it all wonderfull is our responsibility - you have laid the ground rules, and set an example.... you have done your job! they have a responsibility in the situation, and their temperments, moods, ages and stages are the major part. try to take a moment, to remember what a good mom you are, and how much you are giving them! :0) > > I try my best not to allow it. > We have family meetings and discuss > how to treat each other. We discipline > when we feel it is needed--separating > them or forcing them to work things > out. We have tried many methods, but > it doesn't seem to work. My boys--ages > 12 and 15--still constantly bug each > other, call names (when I am not around), > hit, etc. Mostly it is the bickering > that drives me crazy. "Why did > you look at me like that?" "I > didn't look at you." "Yes, > you did." etc., etc., etc. > Any ideas? > Susan M ======================================== MESSAGE: No guilt AUTHOR: Judy in TN DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 7:03 p.m. Response To: True Confessions: Son still sleeping with parents! Author: Pam J. Date: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 10:34 p.m. I forget when our son moved out of our room, but he was there for the first few years. He never would stay in a crib, and I figured he was safer with us than climbing up over the side of that thing. When he was in his room (very briefly), he'd get out of bed, get things from the refrigerator, and bring them to us in our room. One time he brought a bottle of wine and said "Juice!" No, he didn't open it, but I decided then, he either slept with us, or I'd never get a minute's sleep wondering what he was doing and if I'd wake up to catch him at it. It surprised me that when he was ready, he just started sleeping in his own room without any big fuss about it. > Hi Everyone! > I am bracing myself for some reactions > here, but I just had to 'fess up and > admit this. Talk about parenting 24-hours-a-day! > Yup, even in my sleep! LOL! > Yes, our dear 7 year old son still > sleeps in our room. Though it is on > the floor (next to mom's side of the > bed) and he sleeps like a proverbial > log, so we can practically scream in > the bedroom (unintentional *blush*) > and he NEVER gets up (has always been > a deep sleeper) once he goes down. > This all started when he was a > baby. He is our only child. Of course > we tried to make him sleep in his own > room when he got older, but it was always > an ordeal. My instincts told me to keep > him close and let him be. > Then about two years ago we became > friends with another family, the husband > was a psychiatrist. When I mentioned > our ongoing sleeping arrangement, he > and his wife both nodded. They let one > of their sons sleep (on their bedroom > floor, too) with them until he was nine. > In his view (as a psychiatrist) it was > more important to let the child have > as much bonding and comforting as needed. > But the important thing was that it > had to be okay with BOTH parents! > My husband and I have always been > creative in finding time and privacy > for ourselves. It hasn't always been > easy, but we have managed. Having a > weekly night out alone (with him sleeping > overnight w/ grandparents) helped a > lot. > The reward has been a very happy, > well-adjusted, and loving child, who, > though he is still frightened of the > usual boogie men and such, seems to > be growing up pretty secure in the fact > that he is totally supported and loved. > We do set limits in all other areas, > by the way. > Okay, let me have it, if you feel > like sharing your thoughts and experiences > regarding the "Family Bed"...I've > bared my soul (and my boudoir) to you! > I'll have my hands over my eyes when > I read your responses! :-) > Pam ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: True Confession: I haven't slept alone with my hubby in 12 yrs!! AUTHOR: Betsy DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 7:18 p.m. Response To: True Confessions: Son still sleeping with parents! Author: Pam J. Date: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 10:34 p.m. I haven't slept alone with my husband in 12 years. Our 12 year old daughter slept with us beginning the first week she came home from the hospital. When her younger sister was born 5 years later, we tried to get her to sleep in her own room but we were up and down all night. I must get a decent amount of sleep each night in order to function, so we wound up with one parent sleeping with each child (our queen size bed would only hold so much!). When little brother came along 15 months later, he slept in his own bed (thank goodness!) until he began trying to crawl out of his crib. Then I played fruit basket turnover every night for a while. Then we let the two older kids take turns sleeping with dad and whoever didn't sleep with dad slept with me on the girls' daybed (it let up to be a king size bed). Only when my oldest daughter turned 10 did she start sleeping in her own bed (we bought bunk beds for the girls). Now my son sleeps with his dad but sometimes sleeps with me and his 7 year old sister. People have always hassled me about this sleeping arrangement, but it has worked well for us...at least EVERYONE gets a good night's sleep this way. I also think it's important for kids to feel safe and secure....I can remember being so afraid of sleeping by myself at night, not to mention being cold because of not having anyone to snuggle with!!! I'm really glad to see so many of you feel the same way. ======================================== MESSAGE: Little things show them you care AUTHOR: Heidi DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 7:27 p.m. Response To: How do you find time for each child? Author: jbbmom Date: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 5:07 a.m. I felt I had to respond to your question, not that I have all the answers though. I have 5 boys, they are 16,12,10,7, and 7 months. The 16 year old is the only one in ps, the rest are homeschooled. Counting my husband that 6 guys I have to try to spend time with, my husband usually getting the short end of the stick! Anyways, homeschooling has been great in that I can take time one on one with them. Or if I go out for a walk, I welcome it if one of them wants to come with me, or I'll play a video game or something, even if it's only 15 minutes of my time. But obviously the more kids you have the less one on one time you can spend. I believe my kids realize that, but they also know they are deeply loved by both myself and my husband, and we are always doing things to make each one of them feel special. We just spend alot of time together as a family doing family things, and no one really complains of too little one on one time. Just do the best you can, and give them most of all your love, which I'm sure you do. ======================================== MESSAGE: Our kids have all done this AUTHOR: Lee DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 7:38 p.m. Response To: True Confessions: Son still sleeping with parents! Author: Pam J. Date: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 10:34 p.m. sometimes more than one of them at once. I don't think it's that unusual. > Hi Everyone! > I am bracing myself for some reactions > here, but I just had to 'fess up and > admit this. Talk about parenting 24-hours-a-day! > Yup, even in my sleep! LOL! > Yes, our dear 7 year old son still > sleeps in our room. Though it is on > the floor (next to mom's side of the > bed) and he sleeps like a proverbial > log, so we can practically scream in > the bedroom (unintentional *blush*) > and he NEVER gets up (has always been > a deep sleeper) once he goes down. > This all started when he was a > baby. He is our only child. Of course > we tried to make him sleep in his own > room when he got older, but it was always > an ordeal. My instincts told me to keep > him close and let him be. > Then about two years ago we became > friends with another family, the husband > was a psychiatrist. When I mentioned > our ongoing sleeping arrangement, he > and his wife both nodded. They let one > of their sons sleep (on their bedroom > floor, too) with them until he was nine. > In his view (as a psychiatrist) it was > more important to let the child have > as much bonding and comforting as needed. > But the important thing was that it > had to be okay with BOTH parents! > My husband and I have always been > creative in finding time and privacy > for ourselves. It hasn't always been > easy, but we have managed. Having a > weekly night out alone (with him sleeping > overnight w/ grandparents) helped a > lot. > The reward has been a very happy, > well-adjusted, and loving child, who, > though he is still frightened of the > usual boogie men and such, seems to > be growing up pretty secure in the fact > that he is totally supported and loved. > We do set limits in all other areas, > by the way. > Okay, let me have it, if you feel > like sharing your thoughts and experiences > regarding the "Family Bed"...I've > bared my soul (and my boudoir) to you! > I'll have my hands over my eyes when > I read your responses! :-) > Pam ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Relationships and a Home Centered Lifestyle AUTHOR: Shawna DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 9:30 p.m. Response To: Relationships and a Home Centered Lifestyle Author: Giovanna Date: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 5:06 p.m. I know what you mean about the lower stress in staying home-when my dh has our one car, i breathe a sigh of relief! No errands, the whole day at home! He usually comes home to homemade bread or some other goodie! > > Send her this link: > http://www.hsu.edu/faculty/worthf/argue.html > > YES! Great point. Nothing wrong > with having a little "mom time" > here and there and to have the opportunity > to make relationships and frienships > with other like-minded people (as in > your case other homeschoolers). > YES. Absolutely. > I do know of moms, however, that > over-dose on this type of activity. > Their need for "alone time" > has taken over completely. They feel > they need this alone time so they can > be a better parent but yet their constant > search for that takes them away from > parenting itself. They are constantly > out of the house. Then they say they > are burned out. Golly, I would be too! > > You know, one of the best things > that has ever happened to me was giving > up our second vehicle! REALLY! Because > I lack transportation I can't go out > very much at all. The stress level in > our home (and my stress level as well) > has decreased greatly. There is just > something wonderful about a home-centered > atmosphere...given of course that there > is peace and harmony in the home and > that home is a fun place to be. No more > running errands! No more doing favors > for people...taking them to the airport! > WHEW! I can be HOME! And yes....it's > so relaxing. > Thank you for your perspective. > Enjoyed your post. > Giovanna > ======================================== MESSAGE: No Problem! AUTHOR: PattiC DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 11:48 p.m. Response To: True Confessions: Son still sleeping with parents! Author: Pam J. Date: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 10:34 p.m. Hi Pam, My guys are 10 and 12 and spend about half of the year sleeping in an adjoining bedroom to ours ( queen bed about 10 feet from ours), then suddenly they both go back to ONE of their rooms ( on another floor from ours), then the oldest will go on back to HIS alone for a few months...then it starts over.Our house is big and creaky so I can see their need to get closer to where we are sleeping. Our youngest sleep walks so usually a bout will start up a change of cycle. We are relaxed about it but I do get tired out some times when I realize all 4 of us are reading/watching t.v. in OUR double bed for the Xieme night in a row and I need some space!!! Physically as my 12 year old is bigger than I am now and we do not all fit in any sort of relaxing positions :-) but as for sleeping arrangements, don't be ashamed!!! > Hi Everyone! > I am bracing myself for some reactions > here, but I just had to 'fess up and > admit this. Talk about parenting 24-hours-a-day! > Yup, even in my sleep! LOL! > Yes, our dear 7 year old son still > sleeps in our room. Though it is on > the floor (next to mom's side of the > bed) and he sleeps like a proverbial > log, so we can practically scream in > the bedroom (unintentional *blush*) > and he NEVER gets up (has always been > a deep sleeper) once he goes down. > This all started when he was a > baby. He is our only child. Of course > we tried to make him sleep in his own > room when he got older, but it was always > an ordeal. My instincts told me to keep > him close and let him be. > Then about two years ago we became > friends with another family, the husband > was a psychiatrist. When I mentioned > our ongoing sleeping arrangement, he > and his wife both nodded. They let one > of their sons sleep (on their bedroom > floor, too) with them until he was nine. > In his view (as a psychiatrist) it was > more important to let the child have > as much bonding and comforting as needed. > But the important thing was that it > had to be okay with BOTH parents! > My husband and I have always been > creative in finding time and privacy > for ourselves. It hasn't always been > easy, but we have managed. Having a > weekly night out alone (with him sleeping > overnight w/ grandparents) helped a > lot. > The reward has been a very happy, > well-adjusted, and loving child, who, > though he is still frightened of the > usual boogie men and such, seems to > be growing up pretty secure in the fact > that he is totally supported and loved. > We do set limits in all other areas, > by the way. > Okay, let me have it, if you feel > like sharing your thoughts and experiences > regarding the "Family Bed"...I've > bared my soul (and my boudoir) to you! > I'll have my hands over my eyes when > I read your responses! :-) > Pam ======================================== MESSAGE: Great post, psam! AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Friday, 5 February 1999, at 7:30 a.m. Response To: Re: Responsible parenting and reponsible children Author: psam ordener Date: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 7:23 a.m. Hey, psam! I'm glad to see your name here! > PS kids are much more age-conscious, > much less willing to share or interact > with anyone younger. There's an edge > to them that I never noticed until we > started spending time with kids who > don't have it. It's like, "4th > grade against the world". That's really true, although -- in all fairness to public schools -- I think it tends to be just about as bad in most private schools, unless it's an ungraded one. Somehow the very practice of segregating the kids by age leads to a strange kind of age-based jingoism, witness the fear and/or loathing evidenced toward anyone of a different age or grade. Plus, it's just plain limiting to spend so many hours each day with age-peers. > I was watching my kids yesterday > - the 11yo and the 5yo - sitting at > the table working on their projects. > The 5yo got stuck, and the 11yo went > over to him, explained patiently how > to do it, then patted the little one > on the shoulder and said, "Good! > I knew you could do it!" That's so neat. Did it bring a happy tear to your eye? Someone mentioned pick-up games of softball in this thread, which is something we've been encouraging for years here at our place. I love to watch those pick-up games, because the older kids naturally make allowances and bend the rules for the younger ones, even when they're on opposing "teams." It's a pleasure to see this kind of thing in action. Given a conducive environment, most children AREN'T cruel -- they tend instead to be very loving and supportive of each other. > I thought - this is what homeschool > is all about. This is why I'm home with > my kids. This is really worth it. Yeah! The academic benefits are many, but it's the social benefits that knock my socks off every single day. Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: It really si the little things that count the most... AUTHOR: annette DATE: Friday, 5 February 1999, at 7:59 a.m. Response To: Little things show them you care Author: Heidi Date: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 7:27 p.m. Yesterday Hannah and Molly were playing jump rope and needed another person to hold the other end of the rope. They asked Ian who was busy, so I volunteered. You would have thought I had just told them I was bringing home a new puppy! They were so happy. Their reaction was so much that it really opened my eyes to the fact that I don't do this nearly enough. It took 15 minutes of my time and gave them soooo much joy. > I felt I had to respond to your > question, not that I have all the answers > though. I have 5 boys, they are 16,12,10,7, > and 7 months. The 16 year old is the > only one in ps, the rest are homeschooled. > Counting my husband that 6 guys I have > to try to spend time with, my husband > usually getting the short end of the > stick! Anyways, homeschooling has been > great in that I can take time one on > one with them. Or if I go out for a > walk, I welcome it if one of them wants > to come with me, or I'll play a video > game or something, even if it's only > 15 minutes of my time. But obviously > the more kids you have the less one > on one time you can spend. I believe > my kids realize that, but they also > know they are deeply loved by both myself > and my husband, and we are always doing > things to make each one of them feel > special. We just spend alot of time > together as a family doing family things, > and no one really complains of too little > one on one time. Just do the best you > can, and give them most of all your > love, which I'm sure you do. ======================================== MESSAGE: On age segregation AUTHOR: denise DATE: Friday, 5 February 1999, at 9:12 a.m. Response To: Re: Responsible parenting and reponsible children Author: psam ordener Date: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 7:23 a.m. > > I feel like the public schools > are creating some of the problem. My > son is 11yo, and this is our first year > of homeschooling, so we see differences > between the kids he used to see daily > in PS and those he sees now (homeschool > kids). PS kids are much more age-conscious, > much less willing to share or interact > with anyone younger. There's an edge > to them that I never noticed until we > started spending time with kids who > don't have it. It's like, "4th > grade against the world". Now in > home school we don't make that grade > distinction, and kids of all ages play > together when we get together at the > park. There's none of that "ignore > him - he's a little brother and therefore > unworthy of our attention" attitude. > > I was watching my kids yesterday > - the 11yo and the 5yo - sitting at > the table working on their projects. > The 5yo got stuck, and the 11yo went > over to him, explained patiently how > to do it, then patted the little one > on the shoulder and said, "Good! > I knew you could do it!" > I thought - this is what homeschool > is all about. This is why I'm home with > my kids. This is really worth it. Here we are, considering public school for a year while I finish my own degree and this is what happened yesterday: I treated my son to a kid meal at Burger King, and he wanted to play on the playground. He has one inch to grow before he is banned, so I let him. A little girl of about three thought he was just the greatest thing since sliced bread because he played with her. I heard him encouraging her and helping her to climb and play through the maze of tunnels. I wondered if he would be willing to do this next year. Then, later that afternoon, before swim lessons, while the other kids were hanging out at poolside and pushing each other around before swim lessons, my son walked in and stood around a little, then walked over to the place where two of the lifeguards (one is his teacher) were standing and talking and joined in their conversation. They seemed to really be enjoying his company, and in fact, the pool manager had said his teacher was excited about him coming back, because he is such a 'fun kid'. I am very happy about the adaptability he has but I do not think he is unique among home school kids. I hope that next year doesn't 'spoil' this quality if he does end up going to ps. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: True Confessions: Us too!! AUTHOR: Cindy DATE: Friday, 5 February 1999, at 10:34 a.m. Response To: Re: True Confessions: Us too!! Author: Anonymous Date: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 9:01 a.m. Yes, we too have a 6 year old daughter who still sleeps with us. Sometimes I have difficulty sleeping because she kicks and so does my husband, but I see the security she feels when we get to snuggle and don't have the heart to cut her off. My husband is much more supportive than I am about her crawling into bed with us. We have a separate room for both she and her sister (individually) and the 6 year old always gravitates toward someones bed after we all have fallen asleep. Don't feel alone or embarrassed. Seems to be normal from what I hear for many families. Cindy > Hi Pam, Us too!! Though we have > a 6 1/2 yr old daughter who sleeps *in* > our bed. Always has. She is an only > child and doesn't want to sleep alone. > Understandable! Maybe we should get > a dog? But, seriously, we've always > believed in the importance of a family > bed. We just didn't think that it would > continue quite this long. Very rarely > it bugs me and most of the time I love > it. We know that she is safe and warm > and no matter how difficult our day > may have been it seems to be a real > healing time at night. Anonymous > ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: How often do you "really" get out alone AUTHOR: Cindy DATE: Friday, 5 February 1999, at 10:44 a.m. Response To: How often do you "really" get out alone Author: anne Date: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 5:27 a.m. I know there are some mom's out there who say they are never alone, but I don't see how they do it. I try to at least once a week find some time "away". Sometimes this doesn't happen each week and more realistically is every 2 weeks. I try to do something about once a month just for me, whether it be a horseback ride, hike, library trip or shopping, whatever...I find I am MUCH fresher for them and myself, not to mention my husband if I do this! JUST DO IT & Don't feel guilty. Cindy > How often do you get out alone? > The women in my hs support group say > never but I know they go out alone sometimes > because I see them driving down the > street. So please...how often do you > really get out alone? > I go out alone one night a week > to do my shopping and all errands. I > feel like I need more space. Argghhhhh > ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Our kids have all done this AUTHOR: annie DATE: Friday, 5 February 1999, at 6:49 p.m. Response To: Our kids have all done this Author: Lee Date: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 7:38 p.m. Well, at least I know there are people out there that understand!!! We have a kingsize bed that holds myself, 7month old son, four year old son, six year old daughter and last but not least Dad. We put bedrails on each side to keep from falling, or getting pushed out of bed...It's a wonderful feeling to all wake up together on lazy mornings and snuggle. It wouldn't matter how much room we had, our four year old would be RIGHT up next to one of us. We sometimes put the older two on a child's pull out couch on the floor. Both of the older two kids are great sleepers. We gets lots of strange looks from family, but for the most part people leave it alone. WE are happy, the kids are happy, and that's what matters. ======================================== MESSAGE: being with kids 24 hrs all the time AUTHOR: Diane DATE: Friday, 5 February 1999, at 7:51 p.m. I really do enjoy being with my children!! Life in the U.S. today makes one feel 'guilty" for enjoying your children! We just enjoy being together as a family. Homeschooling from the beginning has helped to increase this contentment of each other, I'm sure. Yes, thoughts do go thru my head of how silly I am and one day they will all be gone so I better not get too attached,etc,...BUT, I am still going to keep on loving and giving my all to my children and hubby... I enjoy it with all my <3 ! ======================================== MESSAGE: YOUR CRAZY!!!!! AUTHOR: Lisaann DATE: Friday, 5 February 1999, at 10:15 p.m. I am constantly being told that I must be crazy for not only have four boys, but also because I work at home, teach my children at home, and would sitll like to have more children. I have responded that I love staying home with my children, homeschooling, and working at home. Comments like "your crazy", "you must be nuts", or "and you want more children?" are thrown at me. I have come back with a few responses, but nothing that makes them STOP and think about what they have said, or maybe what they are missing. Does anyone have problems like this? I love being with my children 24 hours a day. Of course, I get time to myself, and time alone with my husband. They just don't know what they are missing!!!!! ======================================== MESSAGE: If I Knew Then.... AUTHOR: Mellisa in NH DATE: Saturday, 6 February 1999, at 6:07 a.m. If I knew then what I know now....I was a full-time career ladder climbing, pregnant mother of two. After the birth of our third child we decided two things 1)This child wasn't going to daycare for at least the first two years of his life and 2)I would have my tubes tied and thus prevent any future pregnancies and having to deal with the maze of prescribed birth control options. After all I was too busy to be bothered. The light came on when my son was about 13 months old - We were going to start homeschooling our seven-year-old and, when the time came, our other two children.! Suddenly I went from devoting myself to the corporate world to devoting myself to my family. I am a much happier person and much more at peace. I would give anything and everything for my children (what mother wouldn't). They are the light of my life and my purpose. If I had known when I decided to have my tubes tied that life could feel this fulfilling - I never would have done it! Now I cherish every single minute that they are small. Just morning thoughts from a mother who woke up with three little angels saying, "Good morning mama." ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: How do you find time for each child? AUTHOR: Liz DATE: Saturday, 6 February 1999, at 7:35 a.m. Response To: How do you find time for each child? Author: jbbmom Date: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 5:07 a.m. I had five children. My husband was in the navy and gone most of the time. I had to be both mother and father; it was tough. I put aside one day a week. I allowed myself a specific amout of money. On that day I would take a child out. We would do whatever that child wanted, as long as it was within my budget allowance. It's true that each child had to wait five weeks for his/her turn to roll around again, but they were very special days..days for which the children waited with anticipation. The rest of the month, I would hear each child's prayers alone and talk with each one for a few minutes. Yes, bedtime was a long procedure for me, but it was worthwile part of the day for both me and my children. > Last night my daughter (11) and > I walked to the library. It was so nice, > since we got a chance to talk, without > interruption from the other kids. I > realizied I need to do that more often. > But how? I have 3 kids (11 and 5yos > are homeschooled, 9yo in public school), > and it seems like I rarely have enough > time for one-on-one time with each one. > And we all need that! How do you all > do it? ======================================== MESSAGE: Writing letters AUTHOR: Kathyj DATE: Saturday, 6 February 1999, at 8:07 a.m. Response To: How do you find time for each child? Author: jbbmom Date: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 5:07 a.m. To help my daughter to read, I started writing letters. We would put these letters in a notebook. We titled the notebook, "Letters from Mom". We also started another notebooks where she would write me letters. As the years advanced, I realized that the whole underlining theme of the letters that Iwrote to her were about how much I loved her and how proud I was of her. Sometimes, she just pulls the notebook out to read the letters. I want to continue writing these letters. I think that it helps her as she changes in her emotional growth. It keeps the communication strong. (I am also doing the same with her brother.) When my daughter was 4 years old and her brother was 2, we would have tea parties. I would get 2 chairs and put a little end table between them. Then we would drink real tea (or hot chocolate) from the real adult mugs and we would really have a talk. This was not the pretend time. This was a mother/daughter talk time. I have tried to continue this from time to time. Since they are teens now, we sometimes go out to eat but we have many one-on-one talks over a cup of hot chocolate. The other child understands that this is just our time so he/she finds something to do in another room. Kathy ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: YOUR CRAZY!!!!! AUTHOR: Tonya DATE: Saturday, 6 February 1999, at 6:30 p.m. Response To: YOUR CRAZY!!!!! Author: Lisaann Date: Friday, 5 February 1999, at 10:15 p.m. > I am constantly being told that > I must be crazy for not only have four > boys, but also because I work at home, > teach my children at home, and would > sitll like to have more children. I > have responded that I love staying home > with my children, homeschooling, and > working at home. Comments like "your > crazy", "you must be nuts", > or "and you want more children?" > are thrown at me. I have come back with > a few responses, but nothing that makes > them STOP and think about what they > have said, or maybe what they are missing. > Does anyone have problems like this? > I love being with my children 24 hours > a day. Of course, I get time to myself, > and time alone with my husband. They > just don't know what they are missing!!!!! > Dear Lisaann, This exact thing has happened to me many times- I have 5 boys! (I would welcome more if my husband would agreed,but I don't think that's going to happen unless God Intervenes.) Anyway, feel free to e-mail me anytime, because I would love to have an email pal who I can "chat" with about these things! (I know in my heart that what you said is true-- the people who say "are you crazy?!" just don't know what they're missin'!) :) Thanks! Tonya :) ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Writing letters AUTHOR: Susan DATE: Saturday, 6 February 1999, at 7:16 p.m. Response To: Writing letters Author: Kathyj Date: Saturday, 6 February 1999, at 8:07 a.m. Kathy-- Thanks for those wonderful inspirations! I think I will start letter books for both boys right away, since I am such a writer! I think I can communicate my deepest real love on paper better than I can in words or my daily behavior, which can be grouchier than I'd like to admit--more often than I'd like to admit! And, it will be a lovely permanent record of positive communication that they can always have at hand. I don't know if my rough and tumble guys will go for the tea party idea, but I can try that too and see how it goes. Thanks again! Susan ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: nothing - they are also responsible for their actions! :0) AUTHOR: Susan DATE: Saturday, 6 February 1999, at 7:22 p.m. Response To: nothing - they are also responsible for their actions! :0) Author: sara Date: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 5:34 p.m. Wow, I have to agree at one level that they are responsible for their own actions. But then again, I cannot stand to listen to the rare times when my sons (also 3 years apart) bicker. It sets my teeth and hair on edge! So what I have told them is, try to work it out respectfully, or give yourselves a break from each other; but if you can't do that then at least go fuss somewhere where I don't have to listen to it. I think there IS such a thing as too much togetherness, esp. with homeschooling! So it's not bad for them to have to be in their rooms quietly alone sometimes. Nothing is sadder to me than seeing someone (of any age) who cannot be content while alone-- so maybe when your boys fight too much,it is a sign they could learn to recognize that they need some solitude. My two cents... Susan ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: If I Knew Then.... AUTHOR: tiffany DATE: Saturday, 6 February 1999, at 10:06 p.m. Response To: If I Knew Then.... Author: Mellisa in NH Date: Saturday, 6 February 1999, at 6:07 a.m. when you are young you think you can do it all huh? i know i did . i was going to be a REAL WOMAN and have a job and be THE MOTHER OF ALL MOTHERS . well if you ask my kids i am the mom but i just went back to work this yr when my youngest and unfortunately last baby started kindergarten. boy was i stupid, my job requires alot of hours and isnt flexible on all those little times i want to see her and help out when her class has something special going on. i also had my tubes tied and have cried over it nightly since she was born. knowing that they are only my 3 babies for such a short season is pushing me to hs them . they are unique creatures and will soon not want me too involved so enjoy it while they want you and your attention! i know im gonna try ! > If I knew then what I know now....I > was a full-time career ladder climbing, > pregnant mother of two. After the birth > of our third child we decided two things > 1)This child wasn't going to daycare > for at least the first two years of > his life and 2)I would have my tubes > tied and thus prevent any future pregnancies > and having to deal with the maze of > prescribed birth control options. After > all I was too busy to be bothered. The > light came on when my son was about > 13 months old - We were going to start > homeschooling our seven-year-old and, > when the time came, our other two children.! > Suddenly I went from devoting myself > to the corporate world to devoting myself > to my family. I am a much happier person > and much more at peace. I would give > anything and everything for my children > (what mother wouldn't). They are the > light of my life and my purpose. If > I had known when I decided to have my > tubes tied that life could feel this > fulfilling - I never would have done > it! Now I cherish every single minute > that they are small. Just morning thoughts > from a mother who woke up with three > little angels saying, "Good morning > mama." ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: YOUR CRAZY!(you're not!) :) AUTHOR: Tonya DATE: Sunday, 7 February 1999, at 11:02 a.m. Response To: YOUR CRAZY!!!!! Author: Lisaann Date: Friday, 5 February 1999, at 10:15 p.m. > I am constantly being told that > I must be crazy for not only have four > boys, but also because I work at home, > teach my children at home, and would > sitll like to have more children. I > have responded that I love staying home > with my children, homeschooling, and > working at home. Comments like "your > crazy", "you must be nuts", > or "and you want more children?" > are thrown at me. I have come back with > a few responses, but nothing that makes > them STOP and think about what they > have said, or maybe what they are missing. > Does anyone have problems like this? > I love being with my children 24 hours > a day. Of course, I get time to myself, > and time alone with my husband. They > just don't know what they are missing!!!!! > Hi again! This is a p.s.! ( You're not crazy!) email me at quickdraw@racc2000.com for further confirmation! :) (Husband is artist, hence the email name.) Thanks! :) ======================================== MESSAGE: I don't know if there is a "right" or "wrong" here... AUTHOR: Jole DATE: Sunday, 7 February 1999, at 1:40 p.m. Response To: So what am I doing wrong? Author: Susan M Date: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 2:59 p.m. and granted my boys are younger than yours (12 & 9). They have always shared a room and maybe that has something to do with it. I agree with Susan on the spending some time alone. I realize children (and adults too) cannot always be pleasant, so on the occasions when they have been really unpleasant I separate them in different rooms with no t.v., videos, etc. If and when they are ready to be a part of the famly again they are free to join us. The responsibility is theirs to control their behavior. > > I try my best not to allow it. > We have family meetings and discuss > how to treat each other. We discipline > when we feel it is needed--separating > them or forcing them to work things > out. We have tried many methods, but > it doesn't seem to work. My boys--ages > 12 and 15--still constantly bug each > other, call names (when I am not around), > hit, etc. Mostly it is the bickering > that drives me crazy. "Why did > you look at me like that?" "I > didn't look at you." "Yes, > you did." etc., etc., etc. > Any ideas? > Susan M ======================================== MESSAGE: P.S. AUTHOR: Jole DATE: Sunday, 7 February 1999, at 1:46 p.m. Response To: I don't know if there is a "right" or "wrong" here... Author: Jole Date: Sunday, 7 February 1999, at 1:40 p.m. I didn't mean to imply that my kids sit in an empty room with nothing to do! They can read, play legos, or any other activity that is not electronic. I want them to have time to ponder the situation and that just doesn't seem to happen if they have a mindless activity to occupy their time. Hope this helps, Jole ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: I don't know if there is a "right" or "wrong" here... AUTHOR: Susan M DATE: Sunday, 7 February 1999, at 3:40 p.m. Response To: I don't know if there is a "right" or "wrong" here... Author: Jole Date: Sunday, 7 February 1999, at 1:40 p.m. > and granted my boys are younger > than yours (12 & 9). They have always > shared a room and maybe that has something > to do with it. I agree with Susan on > the spending some time alone. My boys have always shared a room also. Our house is rather small, so it is hard for them to be alone in it. That could be part of the problem. Thanks for something to think about. Susan M ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: nothing - they are also responsible for their actions! :0) AUTHOR: Susan M DATE: Sunday, 7 February 1999, at 3:44 p.m. Response To: Re: nothing - they are also responsible for their actions! :0) Author: Susan Date: Saturday, 6 February 1999, at 7:22 p.m. > But then again, I cannot stand to listen > to the rare times when my sons (also > 3 years apart) bicker. It sets my teeth > and hair on edge! I know EXACTLY what you mean!!! so maybe when your boys > fight too much,it is a sign they could > learn to recognize that they need some > solitude. My two cents... That may be a good point. Since they share a room, and our house is small, they do not have much chance to be alone. I may have to think of ways we could work this out so they could have some time alone. Thanks. Susan M ======================================== MESSAGE: Your right! AUTHOR: Heidi DATE: Sunday, 7 February 1999, at 5:08 p.m. I agree and understand so much of what you all are saying. I even understand the people who say "your crazy"....cause I always had a career minded future with one or no children. And your right, they don't know what they are missing and misjudging. Its a shame....everybody is different, but to make decisions based on what you have always been expected to do, versus what really makes you happy is sad. I'm just grateful that I realized before we even got pregnant that things were going to be different than what I ever had planned. Now, I follow my heart.....and I'm very happy. I love spending time with my 2 little ones and I don't worry about what other people think might be a better balance. Its my life to balance. People always say that we have the "perfect family" and are "all done"...since we have a boy and girl. I just agree, it is perfect now.....and it will be perfect when we have more children. I take one "day off" a week. I run errands mostly. I do projects like my albums, catching up journals, things that I need more solitude for. I play with the children, and may even take my oldest (2.5yr old) out to the library or something. The biggest thing is that I'm freed up of the "responsibility" of it all. I don't "have" to change diapers or jump up when in the middle of something. For me, that is a nice rejuvenator. Helps me keep a nice happy attitude. For dates, my dh and I do something out one night a month. But even outside of that, we have great evening time together as the children go to bed about 7:30p. Mostly going out offers us a "change of pace"....getting out of the house together. I know I went long. But we all deserve happiness, and it definately starts from within. Sometimes its a struggle to keep the balance that works, with constant change in our lives, but that seems to be something that remains the same. ======================================== MESSAGE: Elements of a close-knit family AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Monday, 8 February 1999, at 7:01 a.m. HELLO EVERYONE! Last night we all went to grandma's house for dinner (had great Cuban food by the way!) and she began to tell us about family friends who have a fourteen year old child who is apparently going through a rebellious, withdrawing period. The daughter is not homeschooled and the parents are just doing whatever they can to "reel" her heart back to the family. They've tried everything....including buying her a puppy which they sold three weeks later because the girl had no interest in taking care of it. I was saddened to hear of this situation and with a tinge of fear I asked myself.... How does this happen? So can we talk about this? What are the elements of a close-knit family? Do you all realize how RARE it is to see teens excited about their family, close to home, maintaining good relationships with their parents, respecting them? Here are some of my theories. Please feel welcome to add yours. **I think we have all chosen well. Homeschooling does not mean you will have perfect children by any means but because we have decided to take this road we are in many ways preserving family unity. You are together! **I have always said that parents have no idea how much authority and influence they are giving up in their children's lives when they send them off to school. In that child's eyes you are no longer the provider of TRUTH...the teacher is. When a child is young it is very important that he has that bond with you and that he embraces every word you say. But it is exactly during this crucial period that the child is not with his parents. He/she is begins to be molded by a total stranger with the help of 25 other children his age who are also total strangers to you. Age 5 is probably the beginning of the most influencial period you will have over your child's life. From there all the way until he is about 12 or so. During the preteen years you are still influencial but on a different level. However, for you to have this influence in your preteen's life you must have already established strong ties. You can't "start" at age 13. It's too late then. **If you want a home-centered, close-knit family, then your "center of operations" (your home) has to be a pleasant place to be. Who wants to be in a home with constant screaming, fighting, arguing? Who wants to be somewhere that's totally boring? I think a lot of children rebel because they just want acceptance. They are not receiving that at home. What do you all think? What other factors contribute to a close-knit family (or lack of closeness)? Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: A few ideas.. AUTHOR: Judy in TN DATE: Monday, 8 February 1999, at 7:29 a.m. Response To: Elements of a close-knit family Author: Giovanna Date: Monday, 8 February 1999, at 7:01 a.m. I think one of the things that keeps our family feeling close is that we're open and honest with each other about our weaknesses. Obviously, the success of this may depend on the age of the child or children in the family, but I think our son has more respect for us being up front about what struggles we have and mistakes we've made along the way. I don't mean this in the sense of being a pal rather than a parent, but we don't present ourselves as the unfailing example of the adult model either. The result is more humor and less resentment. Another thing that I think helps is that we give each other some space. Each of us has time to shut the door and have some privacy. Not everyone has to go to every activity. There are still shared activities, but then we're together because we want to be, not out of obligation or guilt. We enjoy walks, taking the canoe out, and just talking a lot. > HELLO EVERYONE! > Last night we all went to grandma's > house for dinner (had great Cuban food > by the way!) and she began to tell us > about family friends who have a fourteen > year old child who is apparently going > through a rebellious, withdrawing period. > The daughter is not homeschooled and > the parents are just doing whatever > they can to "reel" her heart > back to the family. They've tried everything....including > buying her a puppy which they sold three > weeks later because the girl had no > interest in taking care of it. > I was saddened to hear of this > situation and with a tinge of fear I > asked myself.... How does this happen? > > So can we talk about this? What > are the elements of a close-knit family? > Do you all realize how RARE it is to > see teens excited about their family, > close to home, maintaining good relationships > with their parents, respecting them? > > Here are some of my theories. Please > feel welcome to add yours. > **I think we have all chosen well. > Homeschooling does not mean you will > have perfect children by any means but > because we have decided to take this > road we are in many ways preserving > family unity. You are together! > **I have always said that parents > have no idea how much authority and > influence they are giving up in their > children's lives when they send them > off to school. In that child's eyes > you are no longer the provider of TRUTH...the > teacher is. When a child is young it > is very important that he has that bond > with you and that he embraces every > word you say. But it is exactly during > this crucial period that the child is > not with his parents. He/she is begins > to be molded by a total stranger with > the help of 25 other children his age > who are also total strangers to you. > Age 5 is probably the beginning of the > most influencial period you will have > over your child's life. From there all > the way until he is about 12 or so. > During the preteen years you are still > influencial but on a different level. > However, for you to have this influence > in your preteen's life you must have > already established strong ties. You > can't "start" at age 13. It's > too late then. > **If you want a home-centered, > close-knit family, then your "center > of operations" (your home) has > to be a pleasant place to be. Who wants > to be in a home with constant screaming, > fighting, arguing? Who wants to be somewhere > that's totally boring? I think a lot > of children rebel because they just > want acceptance. They are not receiving > that at home. > What do you all think? What other > factors contribute to a close-knit family > (or lack of closeness)? > Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Elements of a close-knit family AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 8 February 1999, at 7:59 a.m. Response To: Elements of a close-knit family Author: Giovanna Date: Monday, 8 February 1999, at 7:01 a.m. Giovanna-- I loved your post! This is something I've thought a lot about, too. Teenage alienation is so common these days that many people view it as an inevitable stage in a person's life, but I disagree. I don't think it's inevitable at all. I think you hit the nail on the head, here. Homeschooling parents, by definition, have a much greater influence in the lives of their children. But that, alone, is not a guarantee of family harmony. You did a great job of pointing out that the family environment isn't always a happy one. > **If you want a home-centered, > close-knit family, then your "center > of operations" (your home) has > to be a pleasant place to be. Who wants > to be in a home with constant screaming, > fighting, arguing? Who wants to be somewhere > that's totally boring? I think a lot > of children rebel because they just > want acceptance. They are not receiving > that at home. Exactly! Bingo! Parents really set the tone, here. If Mom and Dad get along well, speak kindly to one another (and to their children!), are supportive and respectful of one another's needs and interests...well, that sets the "tone" for the whole household! If the parents bicker, fight, and say mean things to each other (or ABOUT each other), then guess what? The kids learn that that's an OK way to treat other family members! Or if the big people in the house pick on the smaller, younger people, the kids learn that, too. But kindness begets kindness. All things being equal, children who spend most of their time (growing up) with loving parents who speak kindly and are slow to anger tend to learn those patterns of behavior. And they appreciate those qualities in other people. This is probably too simple an explanation, and I'm sure there are exceptions. But if you can eliminate harmful social experiences in the early years (when many children are seriously traumatized by cruel classmates and teachers) and provide a loving home environment, there's really no REASON for children to become hateful and withdrawn when they hit adolescence. Most kids will probably hit a few bumps and lumps when they go through puberty, because it's a difficult time for everyone. But they needn't turn against their own families! And in our experience, at least, they haven't. So many parents harp about "respect." Well, let me tell you -- respect *starts* with the parents respecting their children. I'll defend that position to the bitter end. A child can show only the amount of respect that's been shown to him or her. Period. I also believe that LISTENING is key. I'm in trouble on this score right now, as a matter of fact. Evidently, I've been listening with only half an ear to everything my daughter tells me these days, and she took me to task for it yesterday. I feel awful! I should know better! I'm trying to make a conscious effort now to really tune in (my mind's been on 100 other things this week) and pay attention to what she's saying, even if it doesn't sound earth-shattering. Wish me luck, because I'm terribly absent-minded these days. Middle-aged brain cells wearing out, maybe? Great post, Giovanna. I'm looking forward to reading other people's opinions. Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: We're not trying to escape from our children AUTHOR: Karla B. DATE: Monday, 8 February 1999, at 9:36 a.m. Response To: Elements of a close-knit family Author: Giovanna Date: Monday, 8 February 1999, at 7:01 a.m. I know so many couples, hsers and not, that have a very high priority of escaping from their children as often as they can. We've never done that. We love the company of our two boys. The last time they spent the night with grandma was probably 4 yrs. ago. Everything we do includes our children. We so rarely use a babysitter, when we do need one it's very hard to find one. This may be in part because we waited 5 yrs. after marrying to have children. We each have our own individual interests but by in large, we include the boys in those too. > HELLO EVERYONE! > Last night we all went to grandma's > house for dinner (had great Cuban food > by the way!) and she began to tell us > about family friends who have a fourteen > year old child who is apparently going > through a rebellious, withdrawing period. > The daughter is not homeschooled and > the parents are just doing whatever > they can to "reel" her heart > back to the family. They've tried everything....including > buying her a puppy which they sold three > weeks later because the girl had no > interest in taking care of it. > I was saddened to hear of this > situation and with a tinge of fear I > asked myself.... How does this happen? > > So can we talk about this? What > are the elements of a close-knit family? > Do you all realize how RARE it is to > see teens excited about their family, > close to home, maintaining good relationships > with their parents, respecting them? > > Here are some of my theories. Please > feel welcome to add yours. > **I think we have all chosen well. > Homeschooling does not mean you will > have perfect children by any means but > because we have decided to take this > road we are in many ways preserving > family unity. You are together! > **I have always said that parents > have no idea how much authority and > influence they are giving up in their > children's lives when they send them > off to school. In that child's eyes > you are no longer the provider of TRUTH...the > teacher is. When a child is young it > is very important that he has that bond > with you and that he embraces every > word you say. But it is exactly during > this crucial period that the child is > not with his parents. He/she is begins > to be molded by a total stranger with > the help of 25 other children his age > who are also total strangers to you. > Age 5 is probably the beginning of the > most influencial period you will have > over your child's life. From there all > the way until he is about 12 or so. > During the preteen years you are still > influencial but on a different level. > However, for you to have this influence > in your preteen's life you must have > already established strong ties. You > can't "start" at age 13. It's > too late then. > **If you want a home-centered, > close-knit family, then your "center > of operations" (your home) has > to be a pleasant place to be. Who wants > to be in a home with constant screaming, > fighting, arguing? Who wants to be somewhere > that's totally boring? I think a lot > of children rebel because they just > want acceptance. They are not receiving > that at home. > What do you all think? What other > factors contribute to a close-knit family > (or lack of closeness)? > Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: being with kids 24 hrs all the time AUTHOR: Cindie DATE: Monday, 8 February 1999, at 12:04 p.m. Response To: being with kids 24 hrs all the time Author: Diane Date: Friday, 5 February 1999, at 7:51 p.m. > Diane, I agree with you that people think it's a bit weird to stay home with the kids and homeschool them. People I love and admire very much tell me they could never homeschool. I would take their kids in a minute to give them the chance to *be all that they can be.* I have stopped feeling guilty for not being part of the public school community. I have only been hs-ing for 7 months, but I already wonder how I could have sent my children out to be raised by strangers. My oldest is 14, and he is so much happier and healthier than being in school. This was the best thing I could ever have done for them. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: We're not trying to escape from our children AUTHOR: Cindie DATE: Monday, 8 February 1999, at 12:19 p.m. Response To: We're not trying to escape from our children Author: Karla B. Date: Monday, 8 February 1999, at 9:36 a.m. Karla, doesn't it break your heart to see some of these kids farmed out, especially little ones? My dh and I are going away for Valentine's Day, leaving my 14yo and 12yo with a beloved babysitter, but taking our 3yo with us - romantic, huh? I just don't want to leave her yet. We have only homeschooled for 7 months, but the calmness and happiness is so apparent in our family. No more migraines, no more depression, no more talk of suicide -- and that's my kids. I only regret the years I sent my two oldest out to be raised by strangers. Never again. ======================================== MESSAGE: A thought on the current topic..... AUTHOR: KathyT DATE: Monday, 8 February 1999, at 12:37 p.m. Oh give me patience when tiny hands Tug at me with their small demands Give me gentle, smiling eyes Keep my lips from sharp replies Let not fatigue, confusion or noise Obscure my vision of life's fleeting joys So, when, years later my house is still, No bitter memories it's rooms may fill. Author Unknown Submitted by KathyT ======================================== MESSAGE: A parent can do everything right and still have a "bad" outcome... AUTHOR: Pam J. DATE: Monday, 8 February 1999, at 7:43 p.m. Response To: Elements of a close-knit family Author: Giovanna Date: Monday, 8 February 1999, at 7:01 a.m. Giovanna, I agree with all you have said, here! Still, I think it's important to remember that we can do everything right and still have a "bad" outcome. I can hear you asking, "What do you mean?" I mean, that we can provide that loving home, treat each other with kindness and respect, and be the best Moms and Dads that ever walked the face of the earth...but our kids might still falter, fail, or fall apart, BIG-time. That not everything is down to us, or within our power to control. All we can do is the best we can do. The reason your post caught my eye, is because I have a friend who is a health care provider. She has a female patient who is 14. This is a young lady whom my friend has treated all of her life, so she knows the girl's history by heart. She also knows the girl's family real well. She has a wonderful, loving family. All of a sudden this, once happy and loving child...has become totally withdrawn, depressed, anxious, suicidal, refuses to be around ANYONE. I mean, her emotional state is BAD! For no apparent reason other than the onset of puberty! (I think her parents would probably prefer rebelliousness to this!) My friend told me that yes, puberty can indeed be emotionally, a period of enormous upheaval for some kids. Others seem to breeze right through. But for this girl, it is beyond diffcult. Never underestimate the overwhelming power of hormones!!! Hopefully, if we have created a home that is a haven of comfort and unconditonal love, then our children will come to us, no matter what the personal crisis. But if for some reason, they don't, it doesn't mean we have necessarily failed them. All we can do is the best we can do. And we all have our limits. The rest is in God's hands. Thanks for bringing this up! Pam ======================================== MESSAGE: Live in the boonies, very limited social contacts... Are we becoming hermits? Will the kids suffer in the long term? AUTHOR: PattiC DATE: Tuesday, 9 February 1999, at 1:18 a.m. Seriously, I know there are tons of you who have this wonderful busy social life for you and your kids...but for some of us that is impossible. There are no other homeschooler's here AT ALL. Their ps friends are drowning in homework and don't have any free time. Plus we live 15 minutes out of the village so sponatatious visiting doesn't exist. My kids are lucky if they manage to arrange a play date once a month. They participate in sports at least 3 times a week but that isn't the same ( they play ice hockey, the only team sport here). There aren't any cultural activities for kids here ( we live an hour from a town) where they can sit around and interact. So we must be rather socially self-sufficient. We have two sons two years apart so they do have some one to play with. They still get on well in social situations but my 10 year old has exhibited a lack of patience/enjoyment with his old friends ( he finds them boring and immature...which could be true but he didn't think that before). The boys and I are very happy homeschooling,we really adore it BUT I do worry that we are turning into hermits. We had adult company all weekend and we found it completely exhausting, to the point that it became unpleasant for the kids and I. We are very social but really need a lot of personal space now. Do you think this will damage the kids in the long term? They are adolescents now. ======================================== MESSAGE: respect AUTHOR: Kathyj DATE: Tuesday, 9 February 1999, at 7:23 a.m. Response To: Elements of a close-knit family Author: Giovanna Date: Monday, 8 February 1999, at 7:01 a.m. Cerelle is right about respect. One of the important points that my kids gained when I started homeschooling them, was the respect that they saw all day long. This is the respect that I have for them and for their unique ideas. (Sometimes very unique ideas! :-) ) My son gave me a very long talk, last night, on how he can improve a rotatiller. He is always looking for new ways to improve things. When my kids talk to me about politics, I find their ideas very good. They both volunteer at a museum. When they try to talk about politics there (during the slow time) many of the adults act like the kids shouldn't even have a thought in their heads about what is going on in the government. (My kids are 14, 16.) I do expect respect from my kids. I expect them to talk to my without a whiney, angry voice. I don't mind if they tell me that they don't like something, but it has to be done in the right way. As long as it is an appropriate time, they can disagree with me and I will discuss it with them. A case in point, I know of another teenager. His family is very emotional. When they are angry, they let it out; when they are irritated, they let it out; when they want something, they buy it. Their homelife is not a loving, peaceful place but they do all love each other. He talks about his mother with a lot of disrespect. He doesn't have self-discipline. I explained to my daughter how this was seriously hurting the boy. Because he didn't show respect now to his parents, (the first line in authority) he may have problems later in life showing respect to a boss, that he disagrees with. He may not show the respect to his wife and there will be trouble in the home. He may not show respect to his children, and they will look elsewhere for a family or feel that they are not good enough in the world. Everything that he values in life may go down the drain because he doesn't show respect to others. All of this because he was not taught to control his emotions and to talk to his parents with respect. So many times, I heard in the public schools that we (as a society) had to work on the student's self-esteem. Unfortuanately, my school did this by giving grades that were not warranted. I believe that the way a child gets self-esteem, is by the way the people who mean the most to him listens to his ideas and thoughts. Kathy ======================================== MESSAGE: Once upon a time, I worried about this, too AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Tuesday, 9 February 1999, at 8:07 a.m. Response To: Live in the boonies, very limited social contacts... Are we becoming hermits? Will the kids suffer in the long term? Author: PattiC Date: Tuesday, 9 February 1999, at 1:18 a.m. Patti, I truly understand what you're saying. We've live in the boonies, too, and there have been times when I worried about the kids' lack of involvement in the world outside our doorstep. It wasn't so much that there weren't other homeschoolers around -- there were a few -- but oftentimes my kids weren't interested in getting together with them. As I look back on the past decade or so, it seems that we've gone through various social cycles of expansion and contraction. And yes, there were certain times when I heard the same thing from my oldest...that the other kids in our area were "boring." My younger two haven't been quite as discriminating (I suppose that's the right word to use), but even so, they haven't always had many nearby social opportunities. And try as I would to keep them involved in activities that would throw them into at least occasional contact with children their age (4-H and community sports, for example), it often seemed that they had little in common with their age-peers. I think I need to go out of my way to explain (or insist) that it's not "social awkwardness" we're talking about here. I don't think my kids have ever been socially awkward. I guess they just weren't so socially needy as to want to hang out with kids who didn't share many common interests with them. My oldest was always easily "turned off." This was as true when she was still in school (1st and 2nd grade) as it was after several years of homeschooling. If all another kid could do was jabber about some afternoon cartoon show, she just wasn't very interested in getting together with them. She looked and looked (in vain, usually) for someone her age who liked to read the newspaper editorials or watch Nightline. And those kids simply didn't exist in our rural community. After she was old enough to do volunteer work in the city, her social climate changed considerably, but it wasn't until she went to college that she finally found her ideal milieu. This has been true for many people, I think -- not just homeschoolers. If anything, being homeschooled probably made her life a lot easier. > My kids are lucky if they manage to > arrange a play date once a month. We've had times like that, too. My son has one good friend who lives a 30 minutes away. This has been his best friend for 6 years now, and they get together about every other weekend. It's not exactly a convenient arrangement, but it seems to work for both of them. Hunter wishes he had more friends nearby, but (like my oldest) he's not really interested in spending the afternoon with someone who doesn't "speak his language." He's always polite and friendly to people in social situations, but a play date is supposed to be just for fun, after all, and if there's not much chance of having fun...why go to the trouble? If the kids aren't suffering from loneliness, I don't worry. If they ARE suffering (as mine sometimes have), then I get busy figuring out a new approach to the way we conduct our lives. Indeed, this was exactly what led to our search for volunteer opportunities in the city. It was time to broaden their horizons and get them out among the crowd. That time has not yet come for my youngest, evidently, since he still resists all my efforts to thrust him into a wider circle of contacts. No, I don't think this period of relative isolation will hurt your children in the long run, unless it causes them to mope around and feel sorry for themselves now. A self-contained family unit, assuming it's a happy one, isn't such a bad thing, after all. There have been many such families that produced well-rounded, productive, and creative individuals. My husband frequently had to remind me that Laura Ingalls Wilder spent much of her childhood in an isolated environment. :-) Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: We are quite happy, but it is for the long haul AUTHOR: PattiC DATE: Tuesday, 9 February 1999, at 8:54 a.m. Response To: Once upon a time, I worried about this, too Author: Cerelle Date: Tuesday, 9 February 1999, at 8:07 a.m. I guess I can relax if others have been here too and it worked out okay. As a family we have never been happier ( except maybe when they were babies and we were in that blissful no sleep breastfeeding at all hours fog). Individually, I have never seen my kids so fulfilled and relaxed. They don't mope about not getting to see friends, but rather comment about once a month about the fact that they don't socialize that much . I don't think they are upset about it, sometimes I have to drag them out the door to sport's practice. Happy to hear your oldest was selective and feels socially fulfilled now. Guy would love to find a kindred spirit! I worry because I don't see this as a period, but rather a semi-permanent situation as it has a lot to do with where we live and our educational choices. As I write we are literally stuck at home and will be for the rest of the week due to an avalanche alert, and that is if we are lucky and the snow doesn't come down. I'll have to follow your husbands recommendation and remember how happily the Ingalls girls remembered their childhood. Thanks Cerelle > Patti, I truly understand what > you're saying. We've live in the boonies, > too, and there have been times when > I worried about the kids' lack of involvement > in the world outside our doorstep. > It wasn't so much that there weren't > other homeschoolers around -- there > were a few -- but oftentimes my kids > weren't interested in getting together > with them. As I look back on the past > decade or so, it seems that we've gone > through various social cycles of expansion > and contraction. And yes, there were > certain times when I heard the same > thing from my oldest...that the other > kids in our area were "boring." > My younger two haven't been quite as > discriminating (I suppose that's the > right word to use), but even so, they > haven't always had many nearby social > opportunities. > And try as I would to keep them > involved in activities that would throw > them into at least occasional contact > with children their age (4-H and community > sports, for example), it often seemed > that they had little in common with > their age-peers. > I think I need to go out of my > way to explain (or insist) that it's > not "social awkwardness" we're > talking about here. I don't think my > kids have ever been socially awkward. > I guess they just weren't so socially > needy as to want to hang out with kids > who didn't share many common interests > with them. > My oldest was always easily "turned > off." This was as true when she > was still in school (1st and 2nd grade) > as it was after several years of homeschooling. > If all another kid could do was jabber > about some afternoon cartoon show, she > just wasn't very interested in getting > together with them. She looked and looked > (in vain, usually) for someone her age > who liked to read the newspaper editorials > or watch Nightline. And those kids simply > didn't exist in our rural community. > > After she was old enough to do > volunteer work in the city, her social > climate changed considerably, but it > wasn't until she went to college that > she finally found her ideal milieu. > This has been true for many people, > I think -- not just homeschoolers. If > anything, being homeschooled probably > made her life a lot easier. > We've had times like that, too. > My son has one good friend who lives > a 30 minutes away. This has been his > best friend for 6 years now, and they > get together about every other weekend. > It's not exactly a convenient arrangement, > but it seems to work for both of them. > Hunter wishes he had more friends nearby, > but (like my oldest) he's not really > interested in spending the afternoon > with someone who doesn't "speak > his language." He's always polite > and friendly to people in social situations, > but a play date is supposed to be just > for fun, after all, and if there's not > much chance of having fun...why go to > the trouble? > If the kids aren't suffering from > loneliness, I don't worry. If they ARE > suffering (as mine sometimes have), > then I get busy figuring out a new approach > to the way we conduct our lives. Indeed, > this was exactly what led to our search > for volunteer opportunities in the city. > It was time to broaden their horizons > and get them out among the crowd. > That time has not yet come for > my youngest, evidently, since he still > resists all my efforts to thrust him > into a wider circle of contacts. > No, I don't think this period of > relative isolation will hurt your children > in the long run, unless it causes them > to mope around and feel sorry for themselves > now. A self-contained family unit, assuming > it's a happy one, isn't such a bad thing, > after all. There have been many such > families that produced well-rounded, > productive, and creative individuals. > My husband frequently had to remind > me that Laura Ingalls Wilder spent much > of her childhood in an isolated environment. > :-) > Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: I think that the world has it backwards. AUTHOR: Kathyj DATE: Tuesday, 9 February 1999, at 9:24 a.m. Response To: Live in the boonies, very limited social contacts... Are we becoming hermits? Will the kids suffer in the long term? Author: PattiC Date: Tuesday, 9 February 1999, at 1:18 a.m. We are also out in the boonies. We live about 45 minutes from the nearest supermarket. My son is a people person and at first, homeschooling was very difficult for him. He missed the crowds. He wasn't that good a social interactions when he was in public school. He seemed to be trying too hard. Now he is more relaxed with people of all ages. He is actually getting very good in social situations because he is relaxed. He is more thoughtful of other peoples needs and thoughts. He enjoys people but he also enjoys alone time. I believe that people have to learn how to be happy when they are alone and then they can learn how to be happy when they are with people. There are so many people in this day and time that seem to have to be entertained. Kathy ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Live in the boonies, very limited social contacts... Are we becoming hermits? Will the kids suffer in the long term? AUTHOR: Kim DATE: Tuesday, 9 February 1999, at 11:45 a.m. Response To: Live in the boonies, very limited social contacts... Are we becoming hermits? Will the kids suffer in the long term? Author: PattiC Date: Tuesday, 9 February 1999, at 1:18 a.m. > Seriously, I know there are tons > of you who have this wonderful busy > social life for you and your kids...but > for some of us that is impossible. Okay lets talk about those of us who live IN town... a block from a PS and 3 blocks and across the tracks from THE Christian school and don't socialize with any of those kids... (that'd be us :-) We go to AWANA on Thursday nights and visit with grandma and the kids (my brother is 1 1/2 and sister is 4)every week and we have a party every month, Teagan (our little friend - 3 1/2) comes over almost every week, sometimes more. How much socializing do kids need ??! Really ?! But dh and I are not sociable, either, though... so we don't think it is anything to get worked up over. Whenever I have these thoughts I re-read the Little House series... those kids "turned out ok" ;-) OK- YES- it is a different time... A VERY different time... more reason to stay home ! When I did security I never ran into good polite kids (they were all HOME !) so perhaps that clouds my judgement. However, if your boys are driving you nuts cuz they want to socialize more then... I guess you need to figure something out- but it didn't sound like that was the case. Their old friends probably ARE boring and immature. Last thought then I'll go away- what I have noticed from the other kids at AWANA- the grade one kids are the cutest, sweetest little muffets ! Grade 2's are half and half... grade 3's :-( There is one little girl who is a sweetie... her daddy is a pastor... co-incidence ? :-/ ======================================== MESSAGE: I agree.... AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Tuesday, 9 February 1999, at 4:12 p.m. Response To: A parent can do everything right and still have a "bad" outcome... Author: Pam J. Date: Monday, 8 February 1999, at 7:43 p.m. > Hopefully, if we have created a > home that is a haven of comfort and > unconditonal love, then our children > will come to us, no matter what the > personal crisis. But if for some reason, > they don't, it doesn't mean we have > necessarily failed them. I totally agree. Do you know what "determinism" means? It's the idea that if a parent does everything "right" then the child will turn out OK. I know several people who think this way. They go to great lengths to make sure everything is just right....the best schools, the best influences, etc. Don't get me wrong...we, as parents, are totally responsible for providing a solid, loving, secure atmosphere for our children. But you know what? The child is responsible to RESPOND to that atmosphere. We can set the environment just right but we are not capable of changing a child's heart.... or anyone's heart for that matter. I always chuckle when I think that Adam and Eve had the best DAD anyone could ask for but they still chose to disobey. Hmmm........ Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: More on Determinism AUTHOR: Pam J. DATE: Tuesday, 9 February 1999, at 7:41 p.m. Response To: I agree.... Author: Giovanna Date: Tuesday, 9 February 1999, at 4:12 p.m. Hi Giovanns! > Do you know what "determinism" > means? It's the idea that if a parent > does everything "right" then > the child will turn out OK. I know several > people who think this way. They go to > great lengths to make sure everything > is just right....the best schools, the > best influences, etc. Life just does NOT work this way! This type of thinking buys into the belief, that somehow we can control our fate and our ultimate destiny...just by making all the "right" choices along the way. Certainly, we have a great deal of free will to better our lives. But, ultimately, we cannot control another human being. All we can do (besides loving them) is guide, model, and problem-solve as best we can! Those who have bought into the concept of determinism, can admonish others who slip and fall, that it's all their fault. I know when I was younger, I also used to think that there must be one RIGHT way to do anything, that would ensure the RIGHT outcome...if only I could FIND out what it was! But then lo and behold, you eventually discover the foolishness of such thinking and you (hopefully) just dive into life. Live and learn, as they say. > I always chuckle when I think that > Adam and Eve had the best DAD anyone > could ask for but they still chose to > disobey. Hmmm........ Ha Ha! So what makes us think that we should have any more control over our kids??? LOL! I'm not saying that there are not times that call for drastic action, but we can lose sight of the fact that some things are simply not in our power to control. We are NOT God. I think we'd all be a lot less stressed, if we just accepted our human limitations and relaxed a bit. Hey, even He took a day off to rest, didn't he? (please, no offense anyone!) Pam > ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: More on Determinism AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Tuesday, 9 February 1999, at 8:51 p.m. Response To: More on Determinism Author: Pam J. Date: Tuesday, 9 February 1999, at 7:41 p.m. > Life just does NOT work this way! > This type of thinking buys into the > belief, that somehow we can control > our fate and our ultimate destiny...just > by making all the "right" > choices along the way. Right! I've met individuals who have had a not-so-good childhood and they have grown up to become great spouses and parents. And then of course there are scores of others who are a mess because of childhood experiences. > I'm not saying that there are not > times that call for drastic action, > but we can lose sight of the fact that > some things are simply not in our power > to control. We are NOT God. That's it! I think we should all strive to provide the best environment for our children. I've chosen to homeschool because I think it is the best thing I can do to help my children develop their uniqueness. This is definitely my responsibility. But the outcome of my children's life does not depend solely on the decisions I make. They have a choice as well. >I think > we'd all be a lot less stressed, if > we just accepted our human limitations > and relaxed a bit. Yes, I agree. > Hey, even He took > a day off to rest, didn't he? (please, > no offense anyone!) Well, I was also thinking that not only did Adam and Eve have the best DAD but also the best ENVIRONMENT..... the Garden of Eden for goodness sakes! And still, they disobeyed. Funny, isn't it? Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: The Influence of Peer Groups and the Media AUTHOR: Pam J. DATE: Tuesday, 9 February 1999, at 10:26 p.m. I am beginning to think that we may need more than 24 hours a day to combat the COMBINED effects of peer groups and the media. Most of us know the powerful influence that their peers have on our children. We all hope and pray that our kids find good, well-adjusted friends to share play dates with. But it wasn't until the other day that it dawned on me, that there is an even bigger problem, one that is much more insidious. I read something related to this somewhere during the course of my online travels yesterday. The idea basically being that it's not just the influence of the peer groups that undermine the family structure...but also the MEDIA. Think about it. We, as parents must compete with a media-staturated environment that promotes "attitude", consumerism, questionable (if any) morals, etc., etc. In our society, the media rules. Sports, television, movies, magazines, Nintendo, Sega...no wonder the entertainment business is the TOP money-making industry on the planet today. What's worse, it wields its influence quite broadly, with little, if any regard for social consequences. Just another good reason to keep your kids at home, as far as I'm concerned! That's my antidote. Just hope 24 hours a day is long enough before it wears off! :-) Pam J. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: The Influence of Peer Groups and the Media AUTHOR: Sue DATE: Wednesday, 10 February 1999, at 5:41 a.m. Response To: The Influence of Peer Groups and the Media Author: Pam J. Date: Tuesday, 9 February 1999, at 10:26 p.m. > I am beginning to think that we > may need more than 24 hours a day to > combat the COMBINED effects of peer > groups and the media. > Most of us know the powerful influence > that their peers have on our children. > We all hope and pray that our kids find > good, well-adjusted friends to share > play dates with. But it wasn't until > the other day that it dawned on me, > that there is an even bigger problem, > one that is much more insidious. > I read something related to this > somewhere during the course of my online > travels yesterday. The idea basically > being that it's not just the influence > of the peer groups that undermine the > family structure...but also the MEDIA. > > Think about it. We, as parents > must compete with a media-staturated > environment that promotes "attitude", > consumerism, questionable (if any) morals, > etc., etc. In our society, the media > rules. Sports, television, movies, magazines, > Nintendo, Sega...no wonder the entertainment > business is the TOP money-making industry > on the planet today. What's worse, it > wields its influence quite broadly, > with little, if any regard for social > consequences. > Just another good reason to keep > your kids at home, as far as I'm concerned! > That's my antidote. Just hope 24 hours > a day is long enough before it wears > off! :-) > Pam J. Pam, I agree with you wholeheartedly! Its a tiring job to try to monitor and minimize my children's exposure to the media. Until this winter we kept our tv off and I was very pleased with that arrangement. Around Christmas time I let things slip and allow somw veiwing (PBS only) . Now I am in the process of phasing that out again. I have read some interesting and thought provoking books on this subject. Mary Pipher has written 2 books that are excellent- "Revivng Ophelia" and "The Shelter Of Each Other". You need to read both because if you just read the first you will be depressed. The second book gives good examples of how to counter act the media's influence on our families and even uses a homeschooling family as an ideal. These books deal mainly with the negitive influence from the media and society on adolescent and pre-adolescent girls but can be applied to everyone. Another book "Endangered Minds" by Jane M. Healy is loaded with information on how she believes developing brains are effected by their enviroment. She believes tv veiwing and video games can actually influence how a child's brain developes and processes information. Very scary stuff when you think how many hours kids today can spend in front of tv and video games. Speaking of tv its time for ours to go off! ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: What about in-law pressure? AUTHOR: CathyF DATE: Wednesday, 10 February 1999, at 3:05 p.m. Response To: Once upon a time, I worried about this, too Author: Cerelle Date: Tuesday, 9 February 1999, at 8:07 a.m. Hello, I'm very new here, and this topic is really a "hot" one for us right now. > I truly understand what > you're saying. We've live in the boonies, > too, and there have been times when > I worried about the kids' lack of involvement > in the world outside our doorstep. I am worried... or I guess I wasn't really all that worried, but last week I got a real "talking to" from my Father-in-law, who basically said "You gotta get those kids OUT!!" (Only he managed to say it in a way that stung quite a bit. *g*) Here's our situation: We live in a small city, which is also a fairly... um... "uniform" city. What I mean is, the people all seem the same and it is very much a "corporate" town. I started homeschooling my 2 kids, 8yob and 6yog, this "school year." Patrick, my son, had been in the public school. I tried to explain to MIL that Patrick has been recovering (deschooling)... it's like he had had his head covered and was afraid to look around at life, and over the past month or so, has finally started to look up and notice that the chaotic life of "school" is really over. I'm noticing his spirit coming back, where before he just seemed shell-shocked. I have offered to take Patrick to 4-H, and to a "Youth Club" for kids around here, but he's said specifically: "I'm not ready for that yet." My daughter, Katie, is a whole 'nother story... She has even less interest in other kids at this point than he does. *g* But...here is the problem. *I* see Patrick as "recovering" and "healing" and am watching both of my kids find *themselves*, and want to wait until *they* want to branch out. But! MIL and FIL are totally freaked! Not only are we homeschooling! But the kids are not in "organized" *anything*! They can't stand the idea that I don't want to push the kids into social situations that they are not eager to get into themselves. They are convinced that *I* am harming the kids by *keeping* them cooped up, and not *making* them get out and "do something." So now, after having been lectured quite thoroughly, I am afraid that they are right... the kids will *never* want to get out on their own, and parents *have* to push to make them make friends.... I doubt this... but I just don't know how to get the in-laws to *wait* and see. They are so panicked about everything *now*, and I keep thinking we have all the time in the world! After all, the kids have changed a lot just in the last few months, and nobody forced Patrick to find his interests again, or forced Katie to learn to read. They have done so much! And their time is so much freer now that we homeschool. Am I wrong here? Should I *make* them "join things" just to get them next to other kids? I am sorry this is so long... I have a lot of pent up frustration and worry, and you guys opened the door. *g* Please bear with me. Cathy F :-) ======================================== MESSAGE: No No No No No No No! AUTHOR: Jole DATE: Wednesday, 10 February 1999, at 4:33 p.m. Response To: Re: What about in-law pressure? Author: CathyF Date: Wednesday, 10 February 1999, at 3:05 p.m. Cathy, your in-laws, while they probably mean well, are WRONG! Your children are still quite young and do have pleanty of time to participate in organized activities if they choose to do so. They may not, but would that be so horrible? Our society has brainwashed people into thinking that it is not natural for individuals to enjoy being alone or with members of their own family. Back at the turn of the century it was quite common for families to be self-contained. Neighbors were usually very far away so children usually played with their siblings or by themselves. While my children are fairly outgoing, my husband is not. He enjoys solitude but can function in social situations when necessary. Your children may have the same type of personality. If they do nothing you will do will change it---and may very well make it worse. I think you are probably correct in your assessment that your son was "shell shocked". He probably needs more time alone, not less. I would stand firm with your in-laws and let them know these are your children to raise how you see fit. If they cannot respect your wishes it may be necessary to limit your time with them until they see you mean business. You didn't say what your dh feelings are concerning this. Is he supportive of you? It will be very difficult to stand firm if he isn't. I don't know if this has been much help, but I hope you at least realize your kids are normal. Please let us know what happens. Jole ======================================== MESSAGE: LISTEN TO YOUR HEART!!!! AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Wednesday, 10 February 1999, at 7:14 p.m. Response To: Re: What about in-law pressure? Author: CathyF Date: Wednesday, 10 February 1999, at 3:05 p.m. Cathy: I read your post all the while thinking what a smart and wise mommy you are for realizing what is going on with your children and understanding them. Continue to listen to your heart. Your father in law and mother in law mean well. Bless their heart! But they just don't understand! You, however, have amazing insight into what is going on with your children. Walk in confidence! You know exactly what your children need. This period of "Deschooling" won't last forever but it will take some time. Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: The media AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Wednesday, 10 February 1999, at 7:33 p.m. Response To: Re: The Influence of Peer Groups and the Media Author: Sue Date: Wednesday, 10 February 1999, at 5:41 a.m. I read "Reviving Ophelia" and my eyes were opened! I totally agree that the media can be like poison to children's minds.....well, to anyone's mind! The media decides what's hot and what's not, who is popular, who isn't, what the current trend of thought is. People often times don't even think about it. They just accept whatever the media tells them. It's a powerful tool. Our culture, what is acceptable and not acceptable, what is moral and not moral revolves around the media and that is SCARY! I think it's important that we show our children its tricks so that they won't be deceived. A unit study on advertising techniques would be a good place to start! :-) Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: False Advertising 101 AUTHOR: Pam J. DATE: Wednesday, 10 February 1999, at 8:59 p.m. Response To: The media Author: Giovanna Date: Wednesday, 10 February 1999, at 7:33 p.m. > I think it's important that we > show our children its tricks so that > they won't be deceived. A unit study > on advertising techniques would be a > good place to start! :-) Did anyone's children ever go through this phase when they were little... My then-three year old son would do this: if he saw something on TV that he wanted, he would put his hand right ON the screen, then of course he would wail with frustration when he failed to secure his "goodie". He was so sure there had to be a way to get through that dang screen! LOL! Even now he will comment on some brand of something or another, saying it must be THE coolest, and BEST since he saw it advertised on TV. But it's hard (and sad) to have to explain to a child that what he sees on the tube may actually be an inaccurate representation, or even worse---an outright lie. False Advertising 101. Which is why I hope that being with my son 24 hours a/day is ENOUGH time to counteract the media frenzy. At least if a parent is there alongside, they can point the truth(s) out to them. It also REALLY helps to throw out your TV. Or at least get rid of the cable box. We did. Ah! Peace at last! ======================================== MESSAGE: I agree!!! AUTHOR: Pam J. DATE: Thursday, 11 February 1999, at 12:54 a.m. Response To: Re: What about in-law pressure? Author: CathyF Date: Wednesday, 10 February 1999, at 3:05 p.m. Hi Cathy! In spite of all the criticism you have had to fend off, you sound to me, like a mom who really KNOWS her kids. Hang on tight to that one truth and it will see you through whatever comes. It's sad that your in-laws are too caught up in their own misconceptions and fears, to trust your maternal wisdom. The reality of life is that all things, including little children...CHANGE! Even if you wanted to keep them tied to your apron strings (which I know you DON'T want!), kids have a strange way of growing up and then moving out toward the world when THEY are ready, whether we want them to, or not. Better to let them take their time, rather than push them into things prematurely. Children are NOT like pieces of clay to be shaped and molded! Our time as parents would be better spent if we simply OBSERVED our children, so that we might discover the wondrous and wise little beings they truly are. Each child is precious and unique. Each one has different needs, as well as a different timetable. I agree with everything everyone has said so far. As Giovanna said, listen to your heart, also trust your own eyes and ears...you of all people, KNOW what is right for YOUR children. Hang in there! Stand by those kids! P.S. I'd suggest you read as much as you can about homeschooling, to armor yourself when you encounter those minor skirmishes with your in-laws. Knowledge is the best defense. Email me about this if you like! >From another mom in the trenches! Pam J. ======================================== MESSAGE: Bloom where you're planted! AUTHOR: Pam J. DATE: Thursday, 11 February 1999, at 1:21 a.m. Response To: Live in the boonies, very limited social contacts... Are we becoming hermits? Will the kids suffer in the long term? Author: PattiC Date: Tuesday, 9 February 1999, at 1:18 a.m. Hi Patti! As long as you and your sons are happy, there is no problem. When and IF that changes, I bet you and they, will find a solution. In the meantime, why not take it day-by-day. Why not see the advantages, for there are many, right??? For what ever reason, your lives find you there where you are right now. Because of this, there will be different rewards and experiences that your son's will both build upon. My sense is, they will be more than okay. So many kids grow up too fast. Look at us, I think my son is actually OVER-socialized right now, in spite of being homeschooled! Don't get me wrong, I love our new neighborhood, but my son has made so many new friends that he is on social overload at the moment. And it is so hard to keep him indoors when he can hear all of his buddies outside playing and having a blast. *Sigh* Too much of a good thing. Ever notice, no matter what our circumstances, we (parents) all wonder if our kids are going to turn out okay in the end? Kids, like all human beings, are amazingly resilient and resourceful...given enough love, they will find a way to thrive and bloom WHEREVER they're planted! All they need is a steadfast mom to do the watering! Pam J. ======================================== MESSAGE: Response to Jole, Giovanna, and Pam AUTHOR: CathyF DATE: Thursday, 11 February 1999, at 11:34 a.m. Response To: No No No No No No No! Author: Jole Date: Wednesday, 10 February 1999, at 4:33 p.m. Hi Jole, Giovanna, and Pam, (I realized after I got through here, that this one response should go at the end of Pam's response in the thread... but I don't know how to "undo" the placement that I've given it... and I *sure* don't want to retype it! So, please bear with me... and keep in mind that I am still a newbie. I'll get the hang of this sooner or later. ) I agree, in my heart with everything you've said... It really doesn't sit right with me to force the kids to go against their natures, even when their natures are telling them to "back off" for a while. My in-laws do mean well. Really. They love the kids very much. It's just that they aren't here to see them all day, every day, and I am! (Even to the point of sleeping on a mattress on the bedroom floor when they are sick, and I get worried about them. (Saw that thread... and there's my "true confession" too.)) I *know* how happy the kids have been, and how much joy they are getting from being together, and with me all day. We laugh, we play, and we fuss and cry, but generally speaking, we are sparkly-alive... (especially *them*! It's hard for me to sparkle sometimes... ) They really did miss each other when Patrick was going to school! But the in-laws know that *I'm* not particularly "social" by nature, so they are afraid that I will "make" the kids too much like me! I don't know how to explain that *nobody* MADE me this way! Or at least nobody that is or was a 3-D, here-and-now, flesh-and-blood type person, any way. My mind is wired in a way that is useful to me, and being shoved into social situations and organized activities, and being guilted to death for wanting to quit, hurt a lot more than my mother (social butterfly) ever realized. (My parents still don't get it, but that's a whole different thread.) My point is, yes, the kids might turn out to be uncomfortable in large group settings, but it won't be because I "wouldn't let them get out!" I never changed, even though my parents did their best to see that I would. I eventually found a "niche" and a small group of like-minded people, and slipped into it, and that worked in high school and college, when I *wanted* it to. And not before. I really *do* believe that the kids will find "their people" when they are ready and eager to find them! And when they are wanting to stretch their wings, I'd be a *fool* to clip them! I *want* to see my kids flying! I just think the absolute *wrong* way to get there is forcing them out before they've grown their feathers. That's the whole point! I don't want them stuck in little boxes or cages designed by the outside world, before they knew they could fly; and losing their spirits and identities and belief in possibilities; and spending the rest of their lives searching for something that should never have been lost! But the in-laws have sanctioned the cage-designers, by believing that the cages are necessary and always have been, and they can see no other way. > [organized activities] if they choose > to do so. They may not, but would that > be so horrible? I don't think so. But the idea does scare dh a little, being brought up to believe in the virtue of cages, and all... Though he is gradually learning to trust me in this. He did admit that he thought homeschooling is "turning out ok," and he thinks it has been "pretty good" for Patrick, so far. But he also thinks his father is right; though, he says his father's presentation leaves a lot to be desired. >Our society has brainwashed > people into thinking that it is not > natural for individuals to enjoy being > alone or with members of their own family. FIL says "the world isn't like it used to be. We are all interdependent now." That's a hard one to answer... I can point out that we may be so, but it is only because we *choose* to be interdependent. We ought to still be aware of the possibility of being self-sufficient and able to manage it, if the need should arise. But FIL is hard of hearing, and talking on the phone to him wears out my voice, so I mostly just shut up and take it. It's easier to have a "discussion" when we go to visit. > You didn't say > what your dh feelings are concerning > this. Is he supportive of you? It will > be very difficult to stand firm if he > isn't. He isn't super-supportive. Though he is certainly coming around. I just have to be careful not to scare him too much. (I couldn't just jump into "unschooling" for instance... we're working into it *very* gradually.... though, I'm not sure if dh realizes yet that we are. ;-)) Anyway, Thanks for helping me get my sights straight again. The in-laws threw me for a loop, and sometimes I have to start all over at the beginning of my thinking to come out right again after they do that. I feel so much better now.... Thanks, all of you, for the validation. Now if I can just keep this conviction in my head the *next* time FIL decides to lecture. Sorry this is so long again. ;-) CathyF :-) ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: I agree!!! AUTHOR: CathyF DATE: Thursday, 11 February 1999, at 11:43 a.m. Response To: I agree!!! Author: Pam J. Date: Thursday, 11 February 1999, at 12:54 a.m. Hi Pam, I just love this! You are Right!!! > Children are NOT like pieces of > clay to be shaped and molded! Our time > as parents would be better spent if > we simply OBSERVED our children, so > that we might discover the wondrous > and wise little beings they truly are. > Each child is precious and unique. Each > one has different needs, as well as > a different timetable. And This! The battle cry... or is it a country song??? ;-) >Stand by those kids! Seriously, though, I really do need the reminder sometimes when the slings and arrows start flying around. Just gotta clench my teeth head my doubts off at the pass. > P.S. I'd suggest you read as much > as you can about homeschooling, to armor > yourself when you encounter those minor > skirmishes with your in-laws. Knowledge > is the best defense. Email me about > this if you like! I did say to MIL later... "I don't mind if he has an opinion that he wants to express. I do mind if it is an uneducated opinion and he wants us to change in spite of the fact that he hasn't read *anything* about the subject." Then I suggested "Dumbing Us Down" for a primer... just to open the discussion. We'll see if they follow through. Best, Cathy :-) ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Elements of a close-knit family AUTHOR: Carol Sue DATE: Thursday, 11 February 1999, at 1:50 p.m. Response To: Elements of a close-knit family Author: Giovanna Date: Monday, 8 February 1999, at 7:01 a.m. I heard a woman talk when my children were preschoolers. She had a saying that I think holds true. Rules without relationship hits the rebellion button every time. I think that if you have an open and honest relationship with your kids that when the times of misunderstanding and trouble come they can be worked out. This woman had 6 kids, all Christians and a very close knit family. The youngest is in high school now, I believe. I also heard one of her college age daughters talk as well. In my family, we knew that we could always talk to Mom or Dad about anything. Our parents were very strict and we were "different" back then from our peers. We had rules to abide by and strict dress code, no tv, and etc. We weren't allowed to go to everyone's house. My father was a minister but we always had a night that was family night. We didn't have a lot of money but we had a lot of fun. Even though our parents are gone we are still very close. When my Mom died, I lost my best friend. And I know my siblings felt the same. When Dad died, we were more prepared but to this day (It's been almost six years) I miss his smile and talks we had. Carol Sue ======================================== MESSAGE: I have noticed this as well..... AUTHOR: Melissa DATE: Thursday, 11 February 1999, at 8:13 p.m. Response To: We're not trying to escape from our children Author: Karla B. Date: Monday, 8 February 1999, at 9:36 a.m. It seems as though people need to fill their time with entertainment and therefore find it difficult to be at home with the kids (without the tv on). It is especially difficult, and critical, to be at home with young children. The best thing that I have found to eleviate boredom is to patiently persevere. I take my son outside to play and read to him, endlessly it seems. We never watch tv and I am thankful for that. I really enjoy being with my son and he enjoys me too. Relationships take love AND time to grow and blossom. The less time you spend with your kids the more time they will spend with others. The influence then shifts from you, the parent, to peer and school. Of course we have to have built a quality relationship up to this point, but hopefully that is the outcome of enjoying all the time spent with our children. Kinda redundant but I think you get my point *smile*. Melissa > I know so many couples, hsers and > not, that have a very high priority > of escaping from their children as often > as they can. We've never done that. > We love the company of our two boys. > The last time they spent the night with > grandma was probably 4 yrs. ago. Everything > we do includes our children. We so rarely > use a babysitter, when we do need one > it's very hard to find one. This may > be in part because we waited 5 yrs. > after marrying to have children. We > each have our own individual interests > but by in large, we include the boys > in those too. ======================================== MESSAGE: Give yourself a Day Off Honey! AUTHOR: Barbara Page DATE: Friday, 12 February 1999, at 1:07 a.m. My dh has been giving me a day off every week for the past two months. I have been rejeuvenated and my attitude toward the children has greatly improved. I highly recommend this. Barb Page ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: What about in-law pressure? AUTHOR: Lizzy DATE: Friday, 12 February 1999, at 4:59 a.m. Response To: Re: What about in-law pressure? Author: CathyF Date: Wednesday, 10 February 1999, at 3:05 p.m. Oh, I know it hurts when we feel so right about what we are doing, and if only our extended family could see as we do, I also have been there. Listen to your heart, your kids will let you know when they are ready to be involved in extra activities, my daughter was the same way when we pulled her out of ps, now she has many activities (her choices) that she enjoys doing, your kids are fine and you are on the right track, remember hs have no schedule... > Hello, > I'm very new here, and this topic > is really a "hot" one for > us right now. > I am worried... or I guess I wasn't > really all that worried, but last week > I got a real "talking to" > from my Father-in-law, who basically > said "You gotta get those kids > OUT!!" (Only he managed to say > it in a way that stung quite a bit. > *g*) Here's our situation: > We live in a small city, which > is also a fairly... um... "uniform" > city. What I mean is, the people all > seem the same and it is very much a > "corporate" town. I started > homeschooling my 2 kids, 8yob and 6yog, > this "school year." Patrick, > my son, had been in the public school. > I tried to explain to MIL that Patrick > has been recovering (deschooling)... > it's like he had had his head covered > and was afraid to look around at life, > and over the past month or so, has finally > started to look up and notice that the > chaotic life of "school" is > really over. I'm noticing his spirit > coming back, where before he just seemed > shell-shocked. > I have offered to take Patrick > to 4-H, and to a "Youth Club" > for kids around here, but he's said > specifically: "I'm not ready for > that yet." My daughter, Katie, > is a whole 'nother story... She has > even less interest in other kids at > this point than he does. *g* > But...here is the problem. *I* > see Patrick as "recovering" > and "healing" and am watching > both of my kids find *themselves*, and > want to wait until *they* want to branch > out. But! MIL and FIL are totally freaked! > Not only are we homeschooling! But the > kids are not in "organized" > *anything*! They can't stand the idea > that I don't want to push the kids into > social situations that they are not > eager to get into themselves. They are > convinced that *I* am harming the kids > by *keeping* them cooped up, and not > *making* them get out and "do something." > > So now, after having been lectured > quite thoroughly, I am afraid that they > are right... the kids will *never* want > to get out on their own, and parents > *have* to push to make them make friends.... > I doubt this... but I just don't know > how to get the in-laws to *wait* and > see. They are so panicked about everything > *now*, and I keep thinking we have all > the time in the world! After all, the > kids have changed a lot just in the > last few months, and nobody forced Patrick > to find his interests again, or forced > Katie to learn to read. They have done > so much! And their time is so much freer > now that we homeschool. Am I wrong here? > Should I *make* them "join things" > just to get them next to other kids? > > I am sorry this is so long... I > have a lot of pent up frustration and > worry, and you guys opened the door. > *g* Please bear with me. > Cathy F :-) ======================================== MESSAGE: Media, etc. AUTHOR: Donna in IN DATE: Saturday, 13 February 1999, at 4:29 a.m. Just wanted to ad that surfing on the web can be just as bad as planting oneself in front of the tv. If the advertisers can't get to you on tv, they can on the computer! I know I sound paranoid! Don't mean to. My dd was on the net the other day. All these ads popped up at the site! Sheesh! ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: What about in-law pressure? AUTHOR: Donna in IN DATE: Saturday, 13 February 1999, at 5:08 a.m. Response To: Re: What about in-law pressure? Author: Lizzy Date: Friday, 12 February 1999, at 4:59 a.m. I know what in-law pressure is like too. (I guess we all do!) We recently took a trip to Florida. We homeschooled during this time. We did a unit study on oceans. Anyway, when we would get together with the rest of the family, everyone talked about how it was so interesting that I was homeschooling and they could never do it. All my mil would say is that she was so worried about the socialization part. Anytime it was mentioned. My sil also mentioned it and she had quite a past. And I want to move to FL? Am I insane? Anyway it got to the point that socialization was the key issue and it started to rub off to the point that the kids now think they are missing some incredible experience. Time to de-socialize! I know they mean well. But it does get tiring. Can you tell I'm annoyed? Blessings to you Donna ======================================== MESSAGE: About that "Socialization"... AUTHOR: CathyF DATE: Saturday, 13 February 1999, at 5:58 p.m. Response To: Re: What about in-law pressure? Author: Donna in IN Date: Saturday, 13 February 1999, at 5:08 a.m. Hi Donna, We're in Indiana too, in Columbus. > Anyway it > got to the point that socialization > was the key issue and it started to > rub off to the point that the kids now > think they are missing some incredible > experience. Time to de-socialize! I > know they mean well. But it does get > tiring. Can you tell I'm annoyed? Blessings > to you Donna Or, they get *me* so worked up with the issue, and I start feeling rebellious and angry... so I act differently than I normally would; not as relaxed and "ok" with the kids' timetables... thereby, worrying them, and making them think there might be something "wrong" with what they've been doing, where before they were pretty content. What makes it so mind-boggling to me, is stuff like today... We went up to the Children's Museum in Indy today, to "get the kids out" ; and ended up with Patrick totally frustrated and Katie covering her ears... the kids in Science Works were *everywhere* and not doing anything but hogging the equipment, throwing things, yelling at each other, and generally being little stinkers. Well, granted not *all* of them acted that way, but enough did that it made it totally impossible for Patrick (or anyone else) to get in there and really see how things work, or use the exhibits the way they were meant to be used. I just kept wondering "Where are their mothers?" and "*This* is the "better" social behavior for kids??? How so?" I guess I'm so socially inept that I just cannot understand how this is supposed to be a Good Thing. I know... the Children's Museum may not be the best place to get "socialization" but it sure did remind the kids of what they are missing. I just pray the other kids'll "grow out of" their current social skills, eventually. One thing that keeps coming to mind, though... if our kids are learning to be around respectful adults (by being with us 24 hours a day) or around well-chosen friends; and not getting enough "socialization" with random samples of their peers, then what is the supposed "disadvantage" that they will have when their peers eventually grow up (we hope) and behave like adults? Won't our kids be more likely to manage well, having grown up with adults and friends respecting them, and anticipating that the new crop of adults (their peers, by that time) will also behave respectfully toward them? Won't they be better equipped to realize that someone is taking advantage of them, or being a "jerk", or a mob of jerks? Won't the diffence between "good treatment" and "bad treatment" (or: right and wrong) be more obvious to them, and make them more sure of themselves when they must oppose "bad treatment"? I know that right now, Patrick *recognizes* "wrong behavior". I don't want that recognition "greyed-out". Granted, he lacks the strength and will-power right now, at 8 years old, to go *against* a mob's (or even just four kids') wrong behavior... but that's why he has parents... to manage these issues and to help him learn to manage them himself, over time. Is that the problem? That he'll feel he should stand up for "right?" Is it that people don't really expect anyone to grow up anymore, so figure we all better just get used to living with, not opposing, a bunch of grabby, pushy, arrogant, rude, obnoxious, self-serving-other-sacrificing 40 year old kids? I think the real issue of "socialization" is that our kids are not learning to take part in the mob mentality... and it takes a lot of guts to stand against the mob. So maybe the unspoken, unconscious, in-law gut-fears are for the fact that our kids are learning to be individuals in a time of "mob-rule" (or more politely, "majority rule" ). Best, Cathy :-) ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: About that "Socialization"... AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Saturday, 13 February 1999, at 6:10 p.m. Response To: About that "Socialization"... Author: CathyF Date: Saturday, 13 February 1999, at 5:58 p.m. Here is something that will help you in the argument of "socialization." I've posted this link many times. Maybe you've already seen it? go here: http://www.hsu.edu/faculty/worthf/argue.html ======================================== MESSAGE: Doesn't it drive you nuts to have the kids with you all the time? AUTHOR: Donna in IN DATE: Sunday, 14 February 1999, at 5:38 a.m. How many of us get this constantly? I know I do. Funny thing though. It does make me a little crazy. However, and this should be - HOWEVER, The rewards far far far outweigh the nuts part. Sure they fight. Sure they get the gimmies. Sure they argue. Sure they whine. But, hey, they're kids and we're parents. It's our job, our *chosen* profession, and it's God-given. It just takes some of us longer to figure this out than others. Like me for instance! I've got 6th, 4th, and 3rd graders. I was told I was crazy for taking them out so late - not by homeschoolers by the way. I'll never be able to *handle* them. Sound familiar? Ok, so it makes the *chosen profession* a little more difficult. But, when someone who is in my boat asks about what I did, I can say, " Take them out. Now. It's never too late!!!" I know I'm rambling. The reason I bring this up is because last night I saw a friend who put her kid from Christian school, to ps and back to Christian school and still wasn't happy. Her son wasn't happy and was progressively doing worse. He has four major reports a quarter (like one a semester isn't enough!) but I was on the slightly soopy side for taking my kids out. There's more to the story... but tell people it's never too late! And aren't we going against "the flow" anyway? Blessings to you Donna in IN ======================================== MESSAGE: Yes, sometimes I think I'm going insane! AUTHOR: Karla B. DATE: Sunday, 14 February 1999, at 11:48 a.m. Response To: Doesn't it drive you nuts to have the kids with you all the time? Author: Donna in IN Date: Sunday, 14 February 1999, at 5:38 a.m. My children would say "short trip mom". My children are wonderful until they get in the car and then they loose their minds. "Mom, he touched me", "Mom, he's on my side". Recently we had dinner with my parents and I shared this with them and I said, "we never did that, we (I and my siblings) were always quiet when we went on trips, weren't we"? NO, you were not was the response. Paybacks are great, aren't they. But as you said they are kids and act just like them. Sometime I get very sentimental, like today on Valentines Day and I can almost feel time flying by. I can almost see them grown up and gone. Then I tell myself, cherish every moment, good and bad. I'll get up one morning and they'll be gone. I got to go hug my boys now, bye. > How many of us get this constantly? > I know I do. Funny thing though. It > does make me a little crazy. However, > and this should be - HOWEVER, The rewards > far far far outweigh the nuts part. > Sure they fight. Sure they get the gimmies. > Sure they argue. Sure they whine. But, > hey, they're kids and we're parents. > It's our job, our *chosen* profession, > and it's God-given. It just takes some > of us longer to figure this out than > others. Like me for instance! I've got > 6th, 4th, and 3rd graders. I was told > I was crazy for taking them out so late > - not by homeschoolers by the way. I'll > never be able to *handle* them. Sound > familiar? Ok, so it makes the *chosen > profession* a little more difficult. > But, when someone who is in my boat > asks about what I did, I can say, " > Take them out. Now. It's never too late!!!" > I know I'm rambling. The reason I bring > this up is because last night I saw > a friend who put her kid from Christian > school, to ps and back to Christian > school and still wasn't happy. Her son > wasn't happy and was progressively doing > worse. He has four major reports a quarter > (like one a semester isn't enough!) > but I was on the slightly soopy side > for taking my kids out. There's more > to the story... but tell people it's > never too late! And aren't we going > against "the flow" anyway? > Blessings to you Donna in IN ======================================== MESSAGE: My method for keeping peace in the car. AUTHOR: Gina DATE: Sunday, 14 February 1999, at 1:20 p.m. Response To: Yes, sometimes I think I'm going insane! Author: Karla B. Date: Sunday, 14 February 1999, at 11:48 a.m. Karla wrote: >My children would say "short trip mom". My >children are wonderful until they get in the car >and then they loose their minds. "Mom, he >touched me", "Mom, he's on my side"...... When the kids were small I had a van with bucket seats. Next van had a bench seat and boy was that an eye opener! My current van has bucket seats and for as long as the kids are home I will always have buckets! I guess they couldn't deal with the vague boundries of where one's seat area ended and the next began. With the bucket seats if they are starting to bug each other I can be very specific about where you can put your body - "Keep your bodies in your seats, not out over the floor". I sure hope this van holds out since I bought it nine years ago before I quit work to stay home with the kids! With me not working I don't see how we could afford another. Anyway, some other things I do to help out on trips are: 1) Books on tape. This is especially great for those loooong stories that I would just totally loose my voice on. One classic we listened to that I would not have wanted to read aloud myself was Heidi. It was great on tape though. 2) Song tapes to learn math, geography, presidents. 3) And for those really long trips we have a small TV I plug into the ciggarette lighter. I will typically tape hours off Discovery and PBS before a trip. TV is very limited at home so they will watch anything! 4) If another adult is along I have a few books with silly questions for kids. Along the lines of "Would you rather eat a worm or give a report in your underpants". 5) Uncoloring books were a big hit on the last trip. ======================================== MESSAGE: Hey, I like the idea of stories on tape AUTHOR: Karla B. DATE: Sunday, 14 February 1999, at 1:47 p.m. Response To: My method for keeping peace in the car. Author: Gina Date: Sunday, 14 February 1999, at 1:20 p.m. I wonder if my library carries any good classics. I could just keep it in the car for trips till it's due back. I tend to keep the math tapes with school stuff at home so I don't loose track of it. The van's not an option for us; I drive a compact car and dh drives Fd Explorer that has the bench seat in back. Thanks though for the tape suggestion. > Karla wrote: > When the kids were small I had > a van with bucket seats. Next van had > a bench seat and boy was that an eye > opener! My current van has bucket seats > and for as long as the kids are home > I will always have buckets! I guess > they couldn't deal with the vague boundries > of where one's seat area ended and the > next began. With the bucket seats if > they are starting to bug each other > I can be very specific about where you > can put your body - "Keep your > bodies in your seats, not out over the > floor". > I sure hope this van holds out > since I bought it nine years ago before > I quit work to stay home with the kids! > With me not working I don't see how > we could afford another. > Anyway, some other things I do > to help out on trips are: 1) Books on > tape. This is especially great for those > loooong stories that I would just totally > loose my voice on. One classic we listened > to that I would not have wanted to read > aloud myself was Heidi. It was great > on tape though. 2) Song tapes to learn > math, geography, presidents. 3) And > for those really long trips we have > a small TV I plug into the ciggarette > lighter. I will typically tape hours > off Discovery and PBS before a trip. > TV is very limited at home so they will > watch anything! 4) If another adult > is along I have a few books with silly > questions for kids. Along the lines > of "Would you rather eat a worm > or give a report in your underpants". > 5) Uncoloring books were a big hit on > the last trip. ======================================== MESSAGE: Separation Anxiety AUTHOR: Juliet DATE: Sunday, 14 February 1999, at 8:22 p.m. We've only been hsing for 2 yrs., but since we've been hsing I've noticed that when my dh and I have to be away from our children for any length of time we all seem to suffer separation anxiety. It's been strong enough that we will either cancel our plans or make other arrangements to be able to include the children. Has anyone else found this to be true of your family? ======================================== MESSAGE: Daddys and Children AUTHOR: Juliet DATE: Sunday, 14 February 1999, at 8:24 p.m. How do you handle the children needing/wanting/demanding your attention 24 hrs. day and then when dh comes home, he joins the competition for your attention? What do you do when everyone is pulling you in different directions at the same time and with hsing you have no time for yourself to regroup? ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Separation Anxiety AUTHOR: Susan M DATE: Sunday, 14 February 1999, at 11:00 p.m. Response To: Separation Anxiety Author: Juliet Date: Sunday, 14 February 1999, at 8:22 p.m. > We've only been hsing for 2 yrs., > but since we've been hsing I've noticed > that when my dh and I have to be away > from our children for any length of > time we all seem to suffer separation > anxiety. It seems like I am the only one in the family who gets hit by this. :-) Of course, my boys are 12 and 15 now, so they are sometimes glad for a break from parents. Also my husband and I only get away for a night about once every two years, so it is not a common occurrence. However, when we do, I always have this empty feeling in my stomach for the first hour or so of driving. After that I'm usually fine. However, this year we took the boys to Space Camp, so we didn't see them for 5 days. I really did miss them! They, on the other hand, were too busy to miss us... I know that I will NOT like the empty nest when it comes! Susan M ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Daddys and Children AUTHOR: Karla B. DATE: Monday, 15 February 1999, at 4:52 a.m. Response To: Daddys and Children Author: Juliet Date: Sunday, 14 February 1999, at 8:24 p.m. Hi Juliet, My husband is out of town a alot but when he's home I have the boys the first half of the day (school, experiments, co-op), he gets them in the afternoon (soccer, skiing, baseball), and we get each other in the evening when they've gone to bed. This is our time to catch up and relax. > How do you handle the children > needing/wanting/demanding your attention > 24 hrs. day and then when dh comes home, > he joins the competition for your attention? > What do you do when everyone is pulling > you in different directions at the same > time and with hsing you have no time > for yourself to regroup? ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Separation Anxiety AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Monday, 15 February 1999, at 5:30 a.m. Response To: Separation Anxiety Author: Juliet Date: Sunday, 14 February 1999, at 8:22 p.m. > We've only been hsing for 2 yrs., > but since we've been hsing I've noticed > that when my dh and I have to be away > from our children for any length of > time we all seem to suffer separation > anxiety. It's been strong enough that > we will either cancel our plans or make > other arrangements to be able to include > the children. Has anyone else found > this to be true of your family? Yes. This happened to us. Last year it was our 10 year anniversary and we had always planned on taking a week long cruise. Well, we ended up spending just a weekend at the beach because we just couldn't leave the kids that long. We felt awful about it. That weekend was great! ;-) Hubby and I got time to bond and talk. No interruptions. We both came back home refreshed and it did wonders for our marriage. Honestly, we sometimes get so wrapped up in parenting that we forget we have a marriage and it is really CRUCIAL that we take care of the marriage relationship first and foremost. The best thing any couple can do for their children is to have a happy, fulfilling marriage. Anyhow, just wanted to share. You are not alone! Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Daddys and Children AUTHOR: Mellisa in NH DATE: Monday, 15 February 1999, at 8:51 a.m. Response To: Daddys and Children Author: Juliet Date: Sunday, 14 February 1999, at 8:24 p.m. Sounds like my house. When daddy gets home, he takes charge of the kids for half an hour while I take a bath, lay down, go for a walk, go for a drive, etc. He's had the drive home from work to regroup get his second wind. So this is my chance to do the same. Our time is when the kids are in bed. I've also started waking up earler in the morning to spend to spend time with hubby while he's getting ready for work. Another thing we've done is go for a family walk when hubby gets home or after dinner. The kids walk a few steps ahead while hubby and I walk at our pace and enjoy the exercise > How do you handle the children > needing/wanting/demanding your attention > 24 hrs. day and then when dh comes home, > he joins the competition for your attention? > What do you do when everyone is pulling > you in different directions at the same > time and with hsing you have no time > for yourself to regroup? ======================================== MESSAGE: Quiet Time AUTHOR: Linda Lee DATE: Monday, 15 February 1999, at 9:16 a.m. Response To: Daddys and Children Author: Juliet Date: Sunday, 14 February 1999, at 8:24 p.m. I enforce a QUIET time for my 2 children (ages 3 and 6). The youngest still naps. The oldest has always taken a quiet-time even when she outgrew her naps. We usually "go down" right after lunch. My 6yo can play quietly on her bed or I enforce a nap if I think she is needing it. I set a timer for 1 hour and then I lay down. If the timer goes off while I am sleeping, my dd may leave her room, but she cannot disturb me unless it is absolutley necessary. She will usually go color, play a computer game, or watch a video. By the time my 3yo wakes up, I am usually awake, sipping a cup of tea. This hour(or sometimes 2 hours) really helps me to regroup. I got the idea of a quiet time from attending camps when I was young. We HAD to take on right after lunch...teenagers even. It served a good purpose then and it serves a good one now. With that and a weekly date alone with my dh, I feel most of MY needs for regrouping are met. I also, usually take some time alone on a Sunday afternoon, while the kids play with Daddy. Linda > How do you handle the children > needing/wanting/demanding your attention > 24 hrs. day and then when dh comes home, > he joins the competition for your attention? > What do you do when everyone is pulling > you in different directions at the same > time and with hsing you have no time > for yourself to regroup? ======================================== MESSAGE: Family Bed AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Monday, 15 February 1999, at 2:16 p.m. Response To: I'm not shocked in the least Author: Cerelle Date: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 11:13 p.m. > And in case Giovanna is worried > (*grin*) -- no, I'm not prepared to > debate the merits of the family bed > with one and all, to the detriment of > our topic here. But you've made a good > point, Pam. For some of us it really > IS (or was) 24 hours a day! Whew! That > can be a lot. ROTFL! We were in our parents' bed for the longest time. My mom was always criticized for that. Her friends would tell her how her two girls were way too attached! Until one day my mom got sick and tired of it and yelled at her friends. She told them..."The day will come when WE are going to want the kids to sleep with us then they won't want to!" My son crept in our bed every night for a while and outgrew it on his own. My daughter (age 4) still comes over to ours---usually early in the morning. She is the "snuggly" type so we "snuggle". Someone posted below that there is a certain FEEL to your parents bed. The sheets and even the smell of the bed gives comfort. I couldn't have said it better myself. I remember. Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: One on One Suggestions AUTHOR: Susan DATE: Monday, 15 February 1999, at 5:38 p.m. I have 4 children and it seems they often pair off, the older 2 and the younger 2, or else we are doing things together as a *pack*, but I find it very hard to have actual one on one time with each child. I tried a system called "Family Circles" from Doorposts, but I just didn't have the energy. Other people have recommended a *date* time with each child. Does anyone have suggestions for fun but inexpensive activities? How often do you take this time? ======================================== MESSAGE: I don't think you have to come up with an activity to accomplish this goal... AUTHOR: Haley DATE: Tuesday, 16 February 1999, at 6:38 a.m. Response To: One on One Suggestions Author: Susan Date: Monday, 15 February 1999, at 5:38 p.m. I have five children and the same dilemma. I have found that having you to themselves is all the children want...it has nothing to do with *what* you are doing. In our family we have "lonely" days. If my husband or I are going to run some errands then sometimes we'll allow just one child to come along on a "lonely day" with Mama or Daddy. These short unplanned and uncomplicated outings are the children's greatest privilege. If we allow them to get a treat at the store it is more exciting than going to Disney World. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Daddys and Children AUTHOR: Donna in IN DATE: Tuesday, 16 February 1999, at 8:23 a.m. Response To: Daddys and Children Author: Juliet Date: Sunday, 14 February 1999, at 8:24 p.m. It only takes my dh ten minutes to get home from work. He needs some downtime so I make sure the kids are someplace else while he relaxes, changes out of his workclothes and glances at the paper. He also logs on for his e-mail. By that time, he's ready for the kids and he gets to hear about everyone's day. I usually get supper at this time. In the evening, when the kids are in bed, we have time together. Also, during the day, I also have the kids unwind with some personal devotions and a quiet time for them like a game. This is when I go on the computer - like now! I have my devotions in the am before the kids get up. Blessings to you Donna in IN ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: I don't think you have to come up with an activity to accomplish this goal... AUTHOR: Donna in IN DATE: Tuesday, 16 February 1999, at 8:31 a.m. Response To: I don't think you have to come up with an activity to accomplish this goal... Author: Haley Date: Tuesday, 16 February 1999, at 6:38 a.m. I agree. Sometimes just sitting in the swing in the backyard with one child will do it. But, if you can afford it, try to make a date with your child. My dh takes the kids to breakfast every other week. Interestingly enough, this coincides with payday! Dh usually has coffee and the child a cini-mini and juice. Sometimes, that's all it takes. Blessings to you Donna in IN ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Cerelle, AUTHOR: Leanne DATE: Tuesday, 16 February 1999, at 8:32 a.m. Response To: Once upon a time, I worried about this, too Author: Cerelle Date: Tuesday, 9 February 1999, at 8:07 a.m. Laura Ingalls Wilder has set many examples for us as well. Not just her, but a large majority of our country's founders grew up in a way we today would consider "isolated." I wanted to ask you what volunteer opportunities you found for your children? My oldest (age 13) is in need of something outside of our home. He needs a purpose bigger than watching his siblings and doing the school list I give him each day. thx in advance. Leanne ======================================== MESSAGE: Well, once a year? AUTHOR: Sis DATE: Tuesday, 16 February 1999, at 11:18 a.m. Response To: Re: I don't think you have to come up with an activity to accomplish this goal... Author: Donna in IN Date: Tuesday, 16 February 1999, at 8:31 a.m. : ) I just realized this morning during my "what good are all these silly holidays" rant, that they are good for reminders. The day we turn our clocks we're supposed to check our smoke alarm batteries. On Father's Day I check dh's razor and cologne supplies. On Valentine's Day dh and I have a date, whether we've had one in the last YEAR or not! ;-) I would suggest maybe having one day that you set aside for each kid at least once a year. Our schedules are often so hectic that with very many kids (3+), it could be very hard to do more than that. Our special dates were whatever the kids wanted to do. We usually went out to a fun place to eat and had dessert first! : ) Sometimes that's all we had. A picnic of their favorite junk foods at the park or somewhere to hike is fun. Be ready to play some frisbee. Going to a special "lookout" to watch the sunset or set up the telescope (or go to an observatory) is fun and cheap. You might be ready with some open-ended questions to spark conversation, too. You know, "What would you do if.....?" type of stuff. ======================================== MESSAGE: Working Mommy and Children AUTHOR: Perry DATE: Tuesday, 16 February 1999, at 12:17 p.m. Response To: Daddys and Children Author: Juliet Date: Sunday, 14 February 1999, at 8:24 p.m. My wife (who works) and I (who stay home) go to bed at different times. Since the children sleep about ten or eleven hours and we each sleep six to eight hours, I can have three or four hours all to myself after the wife and kids hit the hay and still get up with the young'uns in the morning. > How do you handle the children > needing/wanting/demanding your attention > 24 hrs. day and then when dh comes home, > he joins the competition for your attention? > What do you do when everyone is pulling > you in different directions at the same > time and with hsing you have no time > for yourself to regroup? ========================================Back to the TopBack to the Digest Index