Digests from the KALEIDOSCAPES MONTHLY TOPIC
(HOMESCHOOLING) DISCUSSION BOARD
These are the original digests from Kaleidoscapes' MONTHLY TOPIC discussion boards.
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Living With Children 24 Hours a Day Digest (part 1)
======================================== MESSAGE: Is it Immersion Parenting or is it Burnout? Can we talk? AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 3:09 p.m. Do you ever get the feeling that modern culture encourages us to view children as pesky, needy, little creatures whose presence can't possibly be tolerated around the clock? I don't really get it. Then again, there HAVE been times when I wished I could have just one day (OK, make that just one hour) to myself. Friends have often asked me, "How do you do it? How can you stand it? I can't wait to see my kids go back to school in September!" Well...how DO we do it? What is it about the homeschooling lifestyle that makes us relish all the time we spend with our kids, or at least enables us to grin and bear it when that time hangs heavy on our hands? I think part of it is that we have different expectations. Most of us don't EXPECT to have a periodically empty house, or a quiet house, or an exclusively "adult" time of day. We soon become accustomed to being with children, morning, noon, and night. And we even like it! Another factor that makes it a little easier (I believe) is that homeschooling families get pretty "tuned in" to one another's moods and rhythms...primarily because we DO spend so much time together. I can usually read any one of my kids like an open book. I generally know what's happened to them on any given day, which makes me better able to understand how they're feeling. And vice versa! I know them; they know me. That's just the tip of the iceberg, of course. I think there are liable to be deep currents in this discussion. I'm often aghast at how undervalued children are in our culture -- at how easily and quickly they are "dismissed" (either from the presence of adults, or from serious consideration). What are your feelings on this topic? I'll be among the first to admit that it's sometimes difficult for a homeschooling mother to find enough time and space for herself. And we do need it! How do we strike a balance? How do we know when we're headed for a crash? How do we structure our days and activities so that everyone in the family has a chance to find a few contemplative moments? Let the conversation begin! Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: OK, let's get to the nitty gritty..... AUTHOR: Debra DATE: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 3:48 p.m. OK, How you do guys ever find time to be "alone" with your husbands. I don't mind being with my kids, but I really miss having time alone with my husband. I guess since we don't have family here for them to go off and visit, it just makes it hard to deal with. Well that and keeping the house clean! If I had solutions to those to problems I would be a happy mommy!!! ======================================== MESSAGE: GREAT TOPIC! .... Welcome Everyone! AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 3:56 p.m. Response To: Is it Immersion Parenting or is it Burnout? Can we talk? Author: Cerelle Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 3:09 p.m. > Do you ever get the feeling that > modern culture encourages us to view > children as pesky, needy, little creatures > whose presence can't possibly be tolerated > around the clock? Absolutely. Children in our society are viewed, often times, as a liability. Families with large number of children are frowned upon. "ARE ALL OF THOSE YOURS?" they ask. And then they stare in amazement. "How could that mom possibly handle or even want that many children?" What factors have encouraged our society to think in this way? When did it start? It has not always been like this. In times past, children were an asset.... a blessing! I'm very much looking forward to everyone's views, opinions and thoughts. This is a great topic. We can discuss many, many things! I hope all of us will come away inspired and more willing to embrace the wonderful opportunity we have as homeschoolers to establish deep relationships with our children. Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Is it Immersion Parenting or is it Burnout? Can we talk? AUTHOR: sherri DATE: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 4:00 p.m. Response To: Is it Immersion Parenting or is it Burnout? Can we talk? Author: Cerelle Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 3:09 p.m. > Do you ever get the feeling that > modern culture encourages us to view > children as pesky, needy, little creatures > whose presence can't possibly be tolerated > around the clock? I don't really get > it. i get it, i hate to fall into the "there is a secret, master plan" category, but this is once i do. i don't know if satan is doing this, or if satan is having Clinton and other politicians do it, whatever, but there is an agenda against the family!! allright!! i'm a zealot!! but it is TRUE! > Then again, there HAVE been times > when I wished I could have just one > day (OK, make that just one hour) to > myself. we all need that sometimes, but i was reading a post the other day that encouraged us all to take time for ourselves regularly, be it lists, shopping, whatever, and i was thinking "if i am to take my life apart from the family, my vital interests apart from the family, my needs met away from the family, then why should i complain if my children do the same?" I prefer, if i need alone time, to re-structure my life so that i am not so pressured, this might come through better moding of my children's character, so they are not a burden, but the blessing that they are meant to be, not just their being, but their character too. and it might mean that instead of trying for fulfillment outside the home and hearth, i find fulfillment in walking alone for a few and praying. i am not being facetious, there is nothing wrong with going to Michael's or Penney's but perhaps i could not use it as an escape hatch, for where will my children turn for fulfilment if they see me looking for escape from home to fulfill myself? > Friends have often asked me, "How do you do it? >How can you stand it? I can't wait to see my >kids go back to school in September!" I faced this last year, i ran into theis nice lady, with delightful little boys, and three of us fell to talking of homeschooling, and she was saying just this. i thought "i can make an answer for anything anyone objects to, but what do you say when someone just wants to be apart from their children????" wow. but another friend told me that i should remember that the less time we spend with our children, the less time we WANT to spend with them, and the less of a treat it is.(this is assuming we have fairly well trained children who are enjoyable to be around!!);D SherriR ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: OK, let's get to the nitty gritty..... AUTHOR: sherri DATE: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 4:10 p.m. Response To: OK, let's get to the nitty gritty..... Author: Debra Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 3:48 p.m. > OK, How you do guys ever find time > to be "alone" with your husbands. boy do i ever understand you here! not only is it hard to find time, but with my husband, the schedule changes a lot! he gets up at six and leaves, comes home for lunch and is home by four, ok, kids see him at lunch, we do a lot of stuff while he is gone to work and are all together in the evening.i don't get that much time. he goes to work at 11:30 a.m. get's home after 7, the boys need to be with him in the morning, he's home in time for bedtime, i get the later hours. when he came home weekends, it was different yet. our schedule keeps changing, different bedtimes, different eating times, to find some time for each different group, him and boys, him and me, him winding down. whew!! it helps to have a common hobby, even a walk alone or the children walking ahead....and let's them see the importance you place on your relationship. ======================================== MESSAGE: My initial thoughts...(kinda long) AUTHOR: Barb K (Hs-ing in Southern Maine) DATE: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 4:15 p.m. This is a great TOPIC, and I'm sure it will generate MANY responses! My first thought... If you watch any television at all in your home... There are two advertisements that TOTALLY get me going! The first is the series that comes out every summer from STAPLES. Y'know the ones where the parent is gleefully taking the kids to buy "school supplies?" and the kids are totally dragging their feet over it? Then, the parent jumps up and down in absolute ecstasy over the thought that soon the kids will be out of the house, back to school, end of the dreaded summer vacation?! I HATE that ad. The other one I hate is for some breakfast cereal. Dad and teenage daughter are eating breakfast, he immersed in the Financial pages of the paper, and she plugged in to her headphones. Do they have anything in common? NOT! Do they even try? NOT! That one frustrates me too. I LOVE being with my kids! Absolutely love it. This summer, my teen will be on staff at a camp in NY and she'll be gone for 12 weeks. I'm not sure how I'll manage -- although it will be good practice for when she goes off to college in another year (she'll be a senior this next school year). Recently, as I was leading a homeschool workshop for families, I was giving an announcement about an upcoming retreat for homeschooling moms. Just the moms. Well, the moms were absolutely thrilled to think that there was going to be a retreat just for them. But, you should have seen the faces on their children, who were sitting down front in the room. Absolute devastation. I had to re-assure all those sweet little children that we REALLY do love them, but that sometimes it's good for moms to get to spend a little time with other moms. It was precious. But, at the same time, it makes me realize just how much our children ENJOY spending time with US! WOW! Novel thought in this day and age. My ps-ing neigbors feel as though they don't even know their children, as they are so tied in with their peer group. Those same children think that their parents "don't understand." But, folks, it all boils down to how we choose to spend our time. Whether we homeschool our kids, or send them to public school, really doesn't matter. (Although personally, I think my kids wouldn't be as close to me as they are if they were in ps). If we choose to take time out for our children, if we play with them, if we help them with projects and homework, if we attend their little league games, tuck them in at night, prepare their favorite meals, read them a story, really listen when they want to talk, take them to church, encourage their talents, but them clothes they like (and are acceptable to us!), and so forth, our children will respond to us in love. Yes, I'm looking forward to the mother's retreat we're hosting too. I treasure the times I can spend with other adults (including my husband). But, what a privilege it is to so intimately share in the lives of my children. They grow up so fast. We have them for such a short time. We need to make the best of it, and God will both bless and reward us for it. If we are obedient to God in the loving, nurturing, and raising of our children; well... I can't think of anything better than that. Can you? How about a petition to ban "those" ads on TV? :) Enjoy your children today! (And, maybe they'll allow you to take a walk with your husband after dinner...) Barb K. (hs-ing -- GLADLY -- surrounds by loving children, here in southern Maine) ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: OK, let's get to the nitty gritty..... AUTHOR: Dawn S DATE: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 5:33 p.m. Response To: OK, let's get to the nitty gritty..... Author: Debra Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 3:48 p.m. I would like to share something that my husband and I decided to do for our "date" time. We took ball room dancing classes. I paid for them and then of course being tightwads, we oculdn't back out then so we went.....and had a BALL!!! We both loved it so much and really looked forward to our 1 1/2 alone each week. It was for 8 weeks so it wasn't a huge commitment but now when we're all listening to music, it's wonderful to grab him and say let's swing, baby! It wasn't very expensive either and since most of the time we managed to find a family member that babysits for free, that was an added bonus. I highly recommend taking these classes together, it isn't very hard and there's others there so you don't feel too self conscious! PS We have 5 under the age of 7! So we are always in need of more time but this was very worth it! > OK, How you do guys ever find time > to be "alone" with your husbands. > I don't mind being with my kids, but > I really miss having time alone with > my husband. I guess since we don't have > family here for them to go off and visit, > it just makes it hard to deal with. > Well that and keeping the house clean! > If I had solutions to those to problems > I would be a happy mommy!!! > ======================================== MESSAGE: rambling thoughts... AUTHOR: Dawn S DATE: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 5:40 p.m. Response To: My initial thoughts...(kinda long) Author: Barb K (Hs-ing in Southern Maine) Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 4:15 p.m. I love being with my kids too. I saw something on TV the other day about how someone wanted a refund since there life was so awful. All I could think was a refund for what? We did not pay anything for our lives, they are a total *GIFT* as our precious children. It's so hard sometimes to balance everything. We need time to ourselves so we aren't running on empty but feel guilty when we are away. I picked up my nieces & nephew the other day. There single, working full time mom was going skiing for 4 days. Her kids were going to be at school all day, daycare til 5;45, grandma's till 6:30, my house til SAturday night and back to another grandma's til mom got home the next day. How terrible! My eldest daughter was incredulous that her cousin wouldn't see her mama for all that time and wouldn't be home, cuddling & reading stories for all that time. Children are a precious gift and we are so blessed to have them. Although toddlers are a challenge, thank God that they *can* make the messes we can clean. I know I was rambling, sorry. ======================================== MESSAGE: Good points.. AUTHOR: Karen in OH DATE: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 5:59 p.m. Response To: Re: Is it Immersion Parenting or is it Burnout? Can we talk? Author: sherri Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 4:00 p.m. I really get tired of people telling me that I *need* to get away from my kids. Yes, there are times when I feel overwhelmed, and am seeking some solitude, but not the kind that takes me away from my children. I enjoy being able to be here, but just not be "on call"... my husband will take over and be the one to handle the squabbles, the bottom-wiping, etc. I can concentrate on doing something I enjoy, whether it is read a book or be here on the computer. Granted, it doesn't happen often enough, but I just never have wanted to escape from my kids, no matter how stressed I have been. We were having a discussion with my daughter (7 yrs old) yesterday and I was telling her how much I loved being a mother and how I didn't want any other job in the world... but that some of her behaviors lately have been making my job much harder for me to do and that I wasn't enjoying my mommy job as much as I used to. We asked for her help in helping me be a good mom. In another vein... I was having a discussion with someone today about staying home with our children and how important it is. Even though she is a sahm, she felt she had to defend her sister (whom I don't even know) who works full-time.. by saying something like "She is a better mom if she doesn't stay home." I can understand it, but I told my husband later that I feel that as a Christian, I can't give that excuse for working outside my home. If I can't be a good mother and be around my children, then I feel like *I* have a problem that needs to be addressed. How's that for a disjointed post? Bottom line, I LOVE being a full time mom and wouldn't change it for the world. Forget the Peace Corps... *this* is the toughest job you'll ever love! Karen ======================================== MESSAGE: How to cope with a suddenly clingy 7 y.o. boy??? AUTHOR: Pam J. DATE: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 6:16 p.m. Gosh am I glad this topic has come up! Our dear son has always been the very social, fairly independent type. This is a kid who was sleeping over at his friend's house before he was even 5! A child who BEGGED me to ket him go to daycare, so he could have other kids to play with. He is an only child. But he is also very sensitive! Since we began homeschooling this year, much of that has changed. Oh, he is still very social...wants to have his buddies over every weekend. Goes out to play with the neighborhood kids when they all get home from school. BUT the big change is, he does NOT want to spend any evenings separated from us (or should I say, ME!). Tonight we have been invited over to a friend's house for dinner (grownups only). Dear son is going to spend the evening with his grandparents, but he has been crying about it most of the afternoon. His exact words to me are..." Mom, you know this homeschooling thing has made me much more connected to you now! It's hard for me to be away from you!" Connected? Yeah, right at the hip! My husband and I used to be able to go out together every Friday eve. (when my parents would babysit regularly) but those evenings are no more. My parents can't take the tears. I know our son LOVES his grandparents and they are wonderful with him, that's not the problem. It just seems as if my son is much more attached to me than ever before! Even when I arrange for him to stay with the parents of one of his friends (so he can have a buddy to play with), he is still upset, though less so. I feel that this is an adjustment period, and I shouldn't be too hard on him...yet I also feel I shouldn't simply cave-in and just stay home either! Please someone tell me it gets better. It HAS to, there's no where else to go from here except UP anyway!!! :-) Thanks! Pam J. ======================================== MESSAGE: I've Got To (Want To)Live With Them AUTHOR: Diana Franklin DATE: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 6:18 p.m. I have always had a saying about why I homeschool. If someone is going to mess them up, I want to be the one to do it. Afterall, I have to live with them. But seriously, my kids aren't messed up they're (4yog and 6yob)great and so easy to live with most of the time. I have friends who public school who are amazed that in the middle of the day I can tell my kids I need time to myself to lie down or read. The kids manage to keep themselves quietly busy for up to one hour and have done this since they were 3yo. I'm sure part of it is training and expectation on my part (plus they are well behaved), but I know another big factor is they know the rest of the time I'm there for them or will be in a few minutes if I'm busy. In other words, they know what to expect. Sure it doesn't always workout, but at those times I can call on a friend I swap care with or wait until my husband gets home and escape for an hour or two. If all else fails, I tell the kids lets go, and we load in they van or just go outside because often we all just need some fresh air or a change of scenery. ======================================== MESSAGE: Yes! Excellent points! AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 6:59 p.m. Response To: Re: Is it Immersion Parenting or is it Burnout? Can we talk? Author: sherri Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 4:00 p.m. Sherri said: but another friend told me that i should remember that the less time we spend with our children, the less time we WANT to spend with them, and the less of a treat it is. I think this is absolutely true. This has been so in my personal life. Once upon a time I was in the "rat race." Get up, get dressed, put on makeup, get the baby ready, drive him to the sitter, work, come home, spend 15-30 with the baby and go to bed and do the same thing over again the next day. I can honestly say that at that time in my life spending time with my child was not the in the list of favorite things to do. Many things began to change in my life though (big changes and too much to write here) and yes Sherri. You are right. The more I spent time with my children, the more I wanted to be with them. You said some wonderful things in your post. I especially liked what you said about women feeling like their needs have to be met outside the family. Gee, how would we feel if our children felt like this???????!!!! Has anyone ever thought of that? Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Is it Immersion Parenting or is it Burnout? Can we talk? AUTHOR: TCF DATE: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 7:44 p.m. Response To: Is it Immersion Parenting or is it Burnout? Can we talk? Author: Cerelle Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 3:09 p.m. ... dh and I were blessed w/ a 10 yr *gap* b/t our oldest and youngest children (dd is married, ds is in college) ... our older children attended public schools and our youngest boys are h-s'd ... when we *finally* welcomed our youngest children home via adoption, friends tried to convince me I was *crazy* for starting over again!!! DIAPERS??? MIDNIGHT FEEDINGS??? COLIC??? BOTTLES (I tried breast feeding but both arrived w/o any notice, so I couldn't prepare) and TEETHING??? 2 YEAR OLDS!!! this always struck dh and I as SO ODD b/c we wanted to *delay* that AWFUL empty nest as long as POSSIBLE; neither of us could imagine our home w/o *any* children!!! of course, years ago, these *same* friends thought I was totally ridiculous b/c I was VERY sad each September when the older children started public school, I *missed* my children SO MUCH while my friends WANTED TO CELEBRATE THEIR *FREEDOM* and b/c upset w/ me when I declined their invitations to their annual September CELEBRATION luncheons!!! in retrospect, I *know*, God was preparing my heart for h-s :) last year when I shared our plans announced our plans to h-s ... "OK, THIS TIME YOU'VE *LOST* YOUR MIND??? you'll lose your identity, etc, blah, blah, blah!!!" I responded w/ "my identity is "M-O-M and I've always been grateful that I *can* stay home w/ my children" on and on, they went ... however, every once in a while, I do *need* a breath of fresh air!!! ... dh is a railroad engineer w/ *very* irregular hours and *never* knows from one day to the next when/if he'll be in town ... once every two weeks or so, dh suggests a "mom's day off" ... the boys spend the day together doing *guy* stuff w/ dad and I have a few hours of *down-time* ... this works out beautifully b/c WE REALLY MISS EACH OTHER WHEN WE'RE APART!!! the other day for example, dh took the boys to our h-s Spanish class while I stayed home to read ... did I accomplish anything??? NOOO, I got VERY choked up as I sat and listened to the DEAFENING SILENCE!!! remember my friends??? when I'd told them this, they laughed and said shook their heads @ me w/ "girllll, what are we going to do w/ you???" I said "I've learned, much to my regret, these years'll just *zip* by in a flash and my little boys will insist on spreading their wings, too ... NO THANKS, I'll savor my time while I can :) TCF (sorry this is so long) ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Is it Immersion Parenting or is it Burnout? Can we talk? LONG AUTHOR: Susan DATE: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 9:06 p.m. Response To: Is it Immersion Parenting or is it Burnout? Can we talk? Author: Cerelle Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 3:09 p.m. Wow, Cerelle, Those are lots of big questions! I have mixed feelings about being with my kids all the time. I'm delighted to have rescued them at last from the horrors of p.s., but still reeling from the unexpected choice to homeschool. I had thought I would be back into my earning career, at least in a hefty part-time way by now, and instead, I'm learning to unschool two gifted boys with very different interests and learning styles. This is HARD! This is a huge transition and one more thing I'm doing that is not mainstream, so it makes me even weirder amongst my peers! Even the homeschoolers around here are mostly doing it because of religious reasons, and I"m what you would call I guess a secular hs-er. So it is hard being such a weirdo! It is hard not being able to have lunch with my pals sometimes! It is hard living far from family support and babysitting (which makes dates hard and rare beause there aren't many babysitters where we live and they're all expensive). Also, I like being alone a lot. Not that I don't like my kids--but I was an only child and learned to enjoy solitude. I never get any now! And it seems the more I give my kids in love and time and energy, the more they want and need and demand! Don't get me wrong--I am glad we made this change, and even with all my complaints, it is far better than the life we had when they were in ps. But I am still wrestling with lots of old expectations; self esteem issues I'm having to take another look at (STILL not earning $$$, which is how I still value myself, though I know that's crazy). Also, I value my marriage a lot, and don't want our dedication to the children to get in the way of our relationship. I have seen somany couples devote SO much of their time and energy and focus to the children that they forget to have a marriage, and when the last child leaves home, there is no more marriage left. I know the empty nest time is hard for a couple, no matter what,but I want to be sure we nurture our marriage and keep it vital so we have something to enjoy with ourselves when the boys are gone! Well I have rambled enough for one message. Leave it to me to bring up the stuff no one else likes to talk about.... Susan ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: How to cope with a suddenly clingy 7 y.o. boy??? AUTHOR: Susan DATE: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 9:17 p.m. Response To: How to cope with a suddenly clingy 7 y.o. boy??? Author: Pam J. Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 6:16 p.m. Pam-- Clingy is a word I know. We just started homeschooling our 6 and 9 this year -- the 9 had completed 3rd grade, and the 6 had done part of kindergarten before we took him out mid year. The 6 has made the transition easily, probably because he had not been in ps long, and was not used to having someone else program all of gis time (in fact, he strongly resists that). The 9, however, who is social, gregarious, loves to go and stay with friends also, suddenly became so clingy I thought I would go nuts. He was all over me like a cheap suit for a couple of months--I could not even go to the bathroom without company. We had also moved to a new house--but not a new town--which explains part of the clinginess, but I think it is also that he was so accustomed to having every minute of his days planned by someone else that he was looking to me for structure. Also, he is an attention hog! He had been getting it from teachers and peers by being the class clown, and was trying to find new ways at home with a smaller audience! Well, things are better now, though he still seeks more of my attention in inappropriate ways than I think is reasonable for his age (we are working on boundaries, respect, privacy issues, recognizing one's needs and expressing them appropriately, etc., here). I am trying to help him find ways of seeking and creating his own inner satisfaction, rather than always needing to get it from some external source (me, other kids, whomever). This has required me to be far sterner than I would like to be... Well I don't know if anyof this applies to your son, but maybe his clinginess will pass when he gets more accustomed to hs. Deschooling, as it's called, can take up to a year or more, they say. Well I'm off to see if I can get some sleep tonight--this big full blue moon has kept me awake four nights this week! I look like a raccoon! Susan ======================================== MESSAGE: Bonding AUTHOR: Judy in TN DATE: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 10:22 p.m. I used to belong to a club when I first moved here, and about a day after the kids went back into ps, we'd go on a celebration shopping trip and eat out. I never felt the feeling of elation the rest of them did though. I dreaded our l3-yr old going back to ps. Once he convinced me to homeschool, I delighted in having him around. One day when dh had a day off, we loaded up the canoe and went to the lake, and our vacation was after ps had started. When dh has a morning off, he can spend time with his son. Being able to set a schedule that fits us is just great. When ds and I get on each other's nerves, we sometimes have a pillow fight to get the stress out. His room is upstairs over the garage on the end of the house, so he can kind of isolate when he needs space, and I can get in the car, but most of the time, we can enjoy being a family. He's actually more interesting to talk to than a lot of the adults I run into!! When he goes to Scout campouts or summer camp, the house sure gets quiet. I'll have a major adjustment to the empty nest, ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Is it Immersion Parenting or is it Burnout? Can we talk? LONG AUTHOR: Abbey DATE: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 10:25 p.m. Response To: Re: Is it Immersion Parenting or is it Burnout? Can we talk? LONG Author: Susan Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 9:06 p.m. Susan: You're not alone at all. I, too, am a secular homeschooler (luckily I found a wonderful secular support group nearby. I, too, was an only child, and sometimes miss my solitude dreadfully, and, I also worry about losing the bond with my DH because of a very active, bright, but very demanding 5 1/2 year old son. (To make matters even more difficult, he's one of those kids who won't go to sleep for fear of missing something, and he's often up later than his Dad, which means we get no alone time together - very frustrating!) And, to increase the similarity, my son also wants more time and attention, the more time and attention I give him. I, for one, am glad you brought up the subjects you did - although I love my child dearly, and do not regret for one instant the decision to homeschool, there are days when that big yellow bus starts to look pretty good. Abbey > Wow, Cerelle, > doing it because of religious reasons, > and I"m what you would call I guess > a secular hs-er. > Also, I like being alone a lot. > Not that I don't like my kids--but I > was an only child and learned to enjoy > solitude. I never get any now! And it > seems the more I give my kids in love > and time and energy, the more they want > and need and demand! > Also, I value my marriage a lot, > and don't want our dedication to the > children to get in the way of our relationship. > I have seen somany couples devote SO > much of their time and energy and focus > to the children that they forget to > have a marriage, and when the last child > leaves home, there is no more marriage > left. I know the empty nest time is > hard for a couple, no matter what,but > I want to be sure we nurture our marriage > and keep it vital so we have something > to enjoy with ourselves when the boys > are gone! ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: OK, let's get to the nitty gritty..... AUTHOR: psam ordener DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 1:46 a.m. Response To: OK, let's get to the nitty gritty..... Author: Debra Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 3:48 p.m. > OK, How you do guys ever find time > to be "alone" with your husbands. > I don't mind being with my kids, but > I really miss having time alone with > my husband. I guess since we don't have > family here for them to go off and visit, > it just makes it hard to deal with. > Well that and keeping the house clean! > If I had solutions to those to problems > I would be a happy mommy!!! > My DH is out of town on business for two weeks. I expected this to be worse than usual because I don't get to see him at all but he has called me every day to talk for about an hour, and believe it or not, the kids have left me alone while I'm on the phone with Dad (mine are 10yo and 5yo boys). Our hour's visit is invigorating to me - adult conversation, adult jokes, it's like it used to be when we were dating and he'd call me at work (we lived 40 miles apart, so we only saw each other on weekends). When he's home, we never get to talk like that because the boys are jumping in to get their time with Dad. I thought I'd hate him being gone - I do miss the physical closeness - but I'm loving these telephone calls! ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Yes! Excellent points! AUTHOR: psam ordener DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 1:56 a.m. Response To: Yes! Excellent points! Author: Giovanna Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 6:59 p.m. > Sherri said: > > You said some wonderful things > in your post. I especially liked what > you said about women feeling like their > needs have to be met outside the family. > Gee, how would we feel if our children > felt like this???????!!!! Has anyone > ever thought of that? > Giovanna And yet, that's what happens with public school kids. So much of their day in spent with others of their own age, that they turn to their classmates to meet their needs, instead of to the parents who have abandoned them to the system. My 10yo was in public school until this year, and the change in him, in his attitude toward parents and brother, in our attitude toward him, has been remarkable. He is not "annoyed" by his 5yo brother nearly as much now. He finds time to sit and chat with Mom, or give me a little hug on his way past me. He is eager to see Dad when he comes home, and instead of wanting to stare at the TV he wants to talk to us about things that are important to him. I dreaded this - we had fought every day over school work - but I have fallen in love with my kids, all over again, and we do not fight over schoolwork any more. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: OK, let's get to the nitty gritty..... AUTHOR: Amy DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 6:06 a.m. Response To: OK, let's get to the nitty gritty..... Author: Debra Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 3:48 p.m. > OK, How you do guys ever find time > to be "alone" with your husbands. > I don't mind being with my kids, but > I really miss having time alone with > my husband. I guess since we don't have > family here for them to go off and visit, > it just makes it hard to deal with. > Well that and keeping the house clean! > If I had solutions to those to problems > I would be a happy mommy!!! > I like to think that homeschooling actually gives my husband and I more time together. My husband works long hours most of the year, he's a welder. If the kids were in PS we'd also have to fit in PTA and parent teacher meetings in the evenings, not to mention helping the kids with homework every night. With homeschooling, our evenings are free for family time or together time for just him and me. We try to take time some evenings just for us to talk while the kids play. Once in a while set it up that the kids can spend time over at a cousin's house or with my brother and sisiter-n-law so we can go out or spend time alone at home. Since he usually doesn't know his schedule for any day until that day we simply have to make impromtu arrangements but it's worth it! The times we set up theses impromtu "dates" the kids actually like getting a quick change of pace. Since they get a lot of time with us most times, they have no problem accepting that we need time alone sometimes too! ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Is it Immersion Parenting or is it Burnout? Can we talk? LONG AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 6:23 a.m. Response To: Re: Is it Immersion Parenting or is it Burnout? Can we talk? LONG Author: Susan Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 9:06 p.m. Susan, I'm grateful for your post and your honesty. It IS hard being a weirdo sometimes, although I've gotten so used to it, it hardly feels weird anymore. ;-) The lack of societal support is a biggie for some of us. I imagine the decision to stay home with the kids (especially after they reach school age) might be a little easier for those mothers who find themselves in a highly supportive peer group for whatever reason -- religion, politics, etc. -- but others of us feel we have to buck the system alone. We've received the message, loud and clear, that we're supposed to DO something with our lives, and that "something" doesn't involve immersion motherhood. So there's a chronic anxiety haunting us. We may believe in our hearts that we're doing the right thing, and we may love what we do. But that other voice in our head whispers, "You were supposed to doing something else with your talents, your education, your training." And people look at us weird. What seems to have been left out of the cultural equation, in our era, is the children. Is the quality of THEIR lives really so expendable that we can blithely turn our backs on them, simply because to do so is "normal"? But back to the nuts and bolts... I'm an only child, too, Susan, and I know exactly what you're talking about. I wasn't used to constant companionship. In fact, I didn't have much patterning for living in a house with more than one child in it. Furthermore, I didn't plan to homeschool, either. I did it because it was the only option that made good sense, and here I am, 13 years later, congratulating myself for having had the good sense to choose this alternative and stick with it! (I hope that encourages you.) I love what someone else said here this morning -- "My kids are more fun that most of the adults I know" (or words to that effect). True! And it really starts to pay off when they get older, believe me. The same people who thought I was pretty weird 10 years ago (I guess some of them STILL think I'm odd) are nevertheless impressed by these abnormal teenagers of mine who don't seem to be afflicted with the usual traits of hostility and apathy. Go figure. Gotta run, but thanks again for posting. Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: OK, let's get to the nitty gritty..... AUTHOR: Paula DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 6:36 a.m. Response To: OK, let's get to the nitty gritty..... Author: Debra Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 3:48 p.m. My Husband and I are both night owl. So we steel the time we need together after the kids go to bed. My kids have always gone to bed at 8:00, unless there is a special reason to allow them to be up later. We also just plan ahead to have the kids spend the night at mom's just so we can go out. For us it is a matter of just planning ahead. We always go to the beach for our family vacation. Last year we took our babysitter with us. Now, that was an excellent idea and I hope she can go again this year. First time is 6 years we were able to take a walk on the beach alone at night. ======================================== MESSAGE: Thanks for your post, Susan AUTHOR: denise DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 7:01 a.m. Response To: Re: How to cope with a suddenly clingy 7 y.o. boy??? Author: Susan Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 9:17 p.m. We moved to a new city across the country from our friendly little neighborhood, and are a home school family this year. I have experienced the same thing (clinginess) with my son, who just turned eight. He has always been extremely outgoing, and never had any problems making new friends. We had kind of a rough start here. We are in a much larger city than before, and it is not so open and friendly. It is encouraging to hear that someone else is experiencing this. I was ready to call in the counselors for depression for a little while there (just a little bit of over-reaction! =-D). He just had a really crummy attitude toward life for the first few months here. It's a lot better now. The clinging was not as bad as what ya'll have described, but it was there. Ours passed. I hold the clinging time as a memory for me to cling to when the day comes that any physical contact (hug, kiss, hand holding) is intolerably embarassing to him. >From what I observed, our son was doing the same thing with being the clown wherever he went, etc. in group situations. That has improved some, too. It seems to be a matter of settling in with us, and it does take some time to adjust to the changes. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Is it Immersion Parenting or is it Burnout? Can we talk? LONG AUTHOR: Susan DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 7:50 a.m. Response To: Re: Is it Immersion Parenting or is it Burnout? Can we talk? LONG Author: Cerelle Date: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 6:23 a.m. Abbey, Cerelle, Thanks for acknowledging the difficulties of this big transition we've made! Lack of societal support has been a huge issue for me since I started having kids--I never realized how hostile our country is to families until we started ours! I know people who belong to big churches and have a great support system there, but my spiritual life takes me in other directions and I can't do that big church thing JUST for the support. Anyhoo, it is sad that our society puts so many conflicting expectations onto women, and leaves children out of the equation (I have noticed this also, with great horror)--but great to know that here is a safe place we can come to where there are others who understand. Thanks! Susan ======================================== MESSAGE: alone time AUTHOR: Kathyj DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 7:58 a.m. I use to laugh when I would read that socialization was not a problem when you homeschooled. Yes, it was. My "social life" was zip. Once I believed that God wanted me to homeschool, I never considered sending my kids back to ps. I did miss "quiet" time. My kids were both in middle school when I started and I had always been a sahm. It was difficult to get use to not having my alone time and my few hours of freedom (when the kids were at school). It has almost been two years now and I have gone through many changes. First of all, the time that I have spent with my teens has been great. This has been the greatest part of my life (except for when they were babies and hadn't started school yet). I respect their ideas and thoughts. I am still their mother but I am also their friend. I am working on the relationship that we will have when they get to be adults. I want it to be a close relationship. Who I am today did not come all at once. When I first started homeschooling, I had to make my room a sanctuary. I would go in their for an hour of my time at least every other day. Now I don't have to do that. I went through a period of time of feeling that I never got away from our farm. Now, if I have to go to town more than once a week, I feel that I am wasting my time. There are so many interesting things going on around our place that I don't like to leave. Most of the time, when I have to go to town, it is because I am taking my kids to something. I know that I will always be going through changes in my life. That is o.k. I hope that I will always continue to grow the right way and that I will come to enjoy the changes. My life will not always be the same as it is today. I want to enjoy right now. The other day, I realized that I was hurting my kids unintentionally. If I needed something and I saw something that they could use, I (like most mothers) would buy the things that they could use and go without what I really needed. I always felt that I could wait. This honestly was not good for my kids. They were being taught that their wants were more important than other people's needs. Now I try to be careful on my decisions. Do I need time away from them. No and yes. I don't feel the need to be away from my children. I do feel the need to have a little bit of time of not being a caretaker. The other day, for the first time in almost a year, I went shopping alone. What an experience. My kids had not always gone with me but I had taken my mother or my best friend. My best friend had injured her arms. She could not pick up anything heavy. (This includes a 10 pound bag of sugar.) I would take her grocery shopping (her husband was out of town for 6 months, going to the police academy in New Mexico). So when I shopped, I would pick up and carry the groceries for 2 families. (I would be exhausted when I got home.) My father died last June. My mother has started going to town with me for company and so that I can help her pick up her groceries. (She is 79 years old.) The other day, I went grocery shopping alone. I really enjoyed it. Not because I wasn't with my kids, but because I could go where I wanted to for awhile without considering other people's needs. I don't regret enjoying my time alone. I don't regret spending time with my teens, spending time with my mother and with my best friend. I feel that I can enjoy all of the situations and that I am very lucky no matter what is going on. Kathyj ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: OK, let's get to the nitty gritty..... AUTHOR: Susan M DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 8:07 a.m. Response To: Re: OK, let's get to the nitty gritty..... Author: sherri Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 4:10 p.m. it helps to have a common > hobby, even a walk alone or the children > walking ahead....and let's them see > the importance you place on your relationship. > My husband and I like to take walks up and down our little dead end street. Good exercise--which I need, even if he doesn't--and a chance to talk, which we both need. The only problem with this is that we live in western Oregon, where it rains a LOT, and I don't really like walking in the rain. :-( susan M ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: My initial thoughts...(kinda long) AUTHOR: Susan M DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 8:18 a.m. Response To: My initial thoughts...(kinda long) Author: Barb K (Hs-ing in Southern Maine) Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 4:15 p.m. > I LOVE being with my kids! Absolutely > love it. This summer, my teen will be > on staff at a camp in NY and she'll > be gone for 12 weeks. I'm not sure how > I'll manage -- although it will be good > practice for when she goes off to college > in another year. I also really enjoy the company of my two boys (except when they are bickering, of coure , but we are working on that). My older son is a 10th grader this year, so I am starting to dread the time he moves out to go to college. I know I have a lot of adjusting when my "nest" is empty--this must be harder for homeschooling moms, since PS moms are used to their kids being gone all day. My boys are such fun to talk with, and I feel they are my best friends, next to my husband, of course. We also hate those ads that imply that moms love to get their kids out of the house. Even worse, I have heard parents say as much, right in front of their kids. How that must make the kids feel! Oops, gotta go! Time to wake my 12 yr. old--the one who still loves to hug and cuddle with me. Oh, yes, I will miss them when they are gone! Susan M ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: My initial thoughts...(kinda long) AUTHOR: Shelley DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 8:54 a.m. Response To: My initial thoughts...(kinda long) Author: Barb K (Hs-ing in Southern Maine) Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 4:15 p.m. The first is the series > that comes out every summer from STAPLES. this commercial always makes me feel bad for the kids. It only points out how much children grow to hate school. I, and my husband, have beed helping I single mom with her children for years and the oldest is in first grade. On the nights she says with us it is heart rendering to watch her come of the bus at 4:30(she gets oout of school ay 3:30 and we live only 5 minutes from the school so the ride is terribly long). She is always starving because the lunch room is so noisy she forgets to eat.(She has learning problems that make it had for her to stay on concentrate) After she eats she has to an hour of worksheet type homework. Yes this is in our public school. The homework probably wouldn't be so bad but first she has to learn how to do the assignment. She is expected to read sentences and fill in the blanks that are hpoelessly above her reading level. Often times she gets math homework that asks here take out her unifix blocks and work the problem, I dont' own any, neither does her school. Most the time I read the sentences and the words and she cicles the correct one or copies it this is an utter waste of time. then I make dinner we eat and she goes to bed because she is so tired. She will sleep as late as she can in the morning. Thuelly I feel awful for her, she isn't learning hates school and I just couldn't imagine putting my own child though this. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Is it Immersion Parenting or is it Burnout? Can we talk? AUTHOR: mariah DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 10:31 a.m. Response To: Is it Immersion Parenting or is it Burnout? Can we talk? Author: Cerelle Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 3:09 p.m. I've read all the posts here and moved to share my thoughts. It does seem to me that the tides are turning on opinions about moms staying home. More and more I hear folks say ow lucky I am or how important my job is. Of course not many of these folks are staying home with their kids. But the attitude is changing I think. As for day to day balance, I try a variety of things. I get up early before anyone else as often as I can. I use this time for reading, writing, visiting message boards like this one. Even if I only have 30 minutes, it goes a long way towards keeping me easy going and able to be more giving. I guess the most important thing is that I truly enjoy my children, having them home, being in their company --why would I send them off just because they turn 5? Well I'm distracted by the crawling child at my feet, yes the one eating my house plants. guess my time is up..... Mariah > Do you ever get the feeling that > modern culture encourages us to view > children as pesky, needy, little creatures > whose presence can't possibly be tolerated > around the clock? I don't really get > it. > Then again, there HAVE been times > when I wished I could have just one > day (OK, make that just one hour) to > myself. > Friends have often asked me, "How > do you do it? How can you stand it? > I can't wait to see my kids go back > to school in September!" > Well...how DO we do it? What is > it about the homeschooling lifestyle > that makes us relish all the time we > spend with our kids, or at least enables > us to grin and bear it when that time > hangs heavy on our hands? > I think part of it is that we have > different expectations. Most of us don't > EXPECT to have a periodically empty > house, or a quiet house, or an exclusively > "adult" time of day. We soon > become accustomed to being with children, > morning, noon, and night. And we even > like it! > Another factor that makes it a > little easier (I believe) is that homeschooling > families get pretty "tuned in" > to one another's moods and rhythms...primarily > because we DO spend so much time together. > I can usually read any one of my kids > like an open book. I generally know > what's happened to them on any given > day, which makes me better able to understand > how they're feeling. And vice versa! > I know them; they know me. > That's just the tip of the iceberg, > of course. I think there are liable > to be deep currents in this discussion. > I'm often aghast at how undervalued > children are in our culture -- at how > easily and quickly they are "dismissed" > (either from the presence of adults, > or from serious consideration). > What are your feelings on this > topic? I'll be among the first to admit > that it's sometimes difficult for a > homeschooling mother to find enough > time and space for herself. And we do > need it! How do we strike a balance? > How do we know when we're headed for > a crash? How do we structure our days > and activities so that everyone in the > family has a chance to find a few contemplative > moments? > Let the conversation begin! > Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Responsible parenting and reponsible children AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 11:02 a.m. On a list I'm on we have been talking about raising responsible, mature children. We have also been talking about the differences between children NOW as opposed to children born say, 80 years ago. Someone on the list I'm on said that the "youth culture" began after WWII...around the fifties. Maybe the idea of surbubia, automobiles, rock and roll? Hey! Don't yell at me now! I like music just like everyone else! Yes even ROCK! :-) I'm just talking about the "culture" of it and what this mom said made a lot of sense to me. She also said that the emphasis of corporations making teens a consumer group has possibly influenced the way teens see themselves. Anyhow, I'm not sure where I'm going with this message. It's just been on my mind a lot lately how children in this age are so incredibly different than they were years ago---less mature, more "lazy", extremely bored, more demanding of material things. Now, don't slap me and accuse me of generalizing but let's look at this realistically. Look at how the media portrays the so-called GENERATION "X". It's not positive at all. Maybe it's our expectations? We don't expect as much from our children? Or maybe the we have allowed the media to decide what is right and wrong in our culture, which way we should go, what decisions we should make. We are parenting the way the media tells us to. An example: I remember subscribing to a very well known parenting magazine when my first born was a baby. I thought I really needed that magazine to make wise decisions. I consulted it for potty training, temper tantrums and all of that. Now, I look back and think, "WHY DID I DO IT THEY WAY THEY SAID IT SHOULD BE DONE?" I don't agree with half the stuff they publish any more. I can't describe it any better than the way a good friend of mine describes it. She says this particular magazine (I don't want to disclose the name) teaches you how to COPE in parenting. That's all--nothing else. JUST COPE! "Hang on as best you can and hope for the best till they get to school and then you can have your life back." Do you see what I mean here? So, how much does the media influence the way we see our children? How much does the media influence children in general? How much does the media influence our culture? How many of us let the culture and media dictate what our values will be? Do we analyze things and determine if they are really right or wrong? If the trend is to go out to work and use our abilities and gifts in a so-called worthwhile manner do women do it without question? Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Responsible parenting and reponsible children AUTHOR: Angela (VA) DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 11:11 a.m. Response To: Responsible parenting and reponsible children Author: Giovanna Date: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 11:02 a.m. What an interesting thought, Giovanna. One way we have decided to curtail the media's influence upon our children is to not allow them to watch any TV which has commericials. Period. I know that some have removed the TV altogether, but we decided to control IT instead. Before we did this we noticed that after almost every commercial which showed something to buy, the kids would all beg to get whatever it was. It seemed to me that they also became more dissatified with what they already owned as well. Then, when we curtailed the amount of time they watched and then limited it to only PBS or videos, my dh and I noticed that they hardly ever asked for toys anymore. They stopped begging me to give them something to do. They are much more satisfied. Your right though, our generation and their's is so much different. I'd like to hear how others are addressing this issue. > On a list I'm on we have been talking > about raising responsible, mature children. > We have also been talking about the > differences between children NOW as > opposed to children born say, 80 years > ago. > Someone on the list I'm on said > that the "youth culture" began > after WWII...around the fifties. Maybe > the idea of surbubia, automobiles, rock > and roll? Hey! Don't yell at me now! > I like music just like everyone else! > Yes even ROCK! :-) I'm just talking > about the "culture" of it > and what this mom said made a lot of > sense to me. She also said that the > emphasis of corporations making teens > a consumer group has possibly influenced > the way teens see themselves. > Anyhow, I'm not sure where I'm > going with this message. It's just been > on my mind a lot lately how children > in this age are so incredibly different > than they were years ago---less mature, > more "lazy", extremely bored, > more demanding of material things. Now, > don't slap me and accuse me of generalizing > but let's look at this realistically. > Look at how the media portrays the so-called > GENERATION "X". It's not positive > at all. > Maybe it's our expectations? We > don't expect as much from our children? > Or maybe the we have allowed the media > to decide what is right and wrong in > our culture, which way we should go, > what decisions we should make. We are > parenting the way the media tells us > to. > An example: > I remember subscribing to a very > well known parenting magazine when my > first born was a baby. I thought I really > needed that magazine to make wise decisions. > I consulted it for potty training, temper > tantrums and all of that. Now, I look > back and think, "WHY DID I DO IT > THEY WAY THEY SAID IT SHOULD BE DONE?" > I don't agree with half the stuff they > publish any more. I can't describe it > any better than the way a good friend > of mine describes it. She says this > particular magazine (I don't want to > disclose the name) teaches you how to > COPE in parenting. That's all--nothing > else. JUST COPE! "Hang on as best > you can and hope for the best till they > get to school and then you can have > your life back." > Do you see what I mean here? > So, how much does the media influence > the way we see our children? How much > does the media influence children in > general? How much does the media influence > our culture? How many of us let the > culture and media dictate what our values > will be? Do we analyze things and determine > if they are really right or wrong? If > the trend is to go out to work and use > our abilities and gifts in a so-called > worthwhile manner do women do it without > question? > Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Responsible parenting and reponsible children AUTHOR: Karla B DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 11:58 a.m. Response To: Re: Responsible parenting and reponsible children Author: Angela (VA) Date: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 11:11 a.m. It seems to me what you're saying, Angela, is that you want to be a bigger influence on your children than the outside world. Am I right. I struggle with this all the time. The media can take some really stupid gimic and turn it into a goldmind. Kids buy right into anything they see on TV. I try to limit TV also and I tell my boys all the time just because kids in the neighborhood are doing something or saying something doesn't make it good. They seem to be influenced so easily by outside forces. I remember the summers I spent with my grandparents during my childhood. Both sets lived on farms. They rarely had any need to go to a store to buy anything. There was no cable or videos or gameboy. We played checkers, cards, read books, listened to my grandfather tell stories about his childhood. I'm only 35 so this wasn't that long ago. Both sets of grandparents are gone now and so are the farms. When I take my children to grandma's (my mother-in-law) house, she takes them to McDonalds and they think they are supposed to get a toy everytime they see her! My parents are almost as bad. What happened to the good-ole-days? > What an interesting thought, Giovanna. > > One way we have decided to curtail > the media's influence upon our children > is to not allow them to watch any TV > which has commericials. Period. I know > that some have removed the TV altogether, > but we decided to control IT instead. > > Before we did this we noticed that > after almost every commercial which > showed something to buy, the kids would > all beg to get whatever it was. It seemed > to me that they also became more dissatified > with what they already owned as well. > Then, when we curtailed the amount of > time they watched and then limited it > to only PBS or videos, my dh and I noticed > that they hardly ever asked for toys > anymore. They stopped begging me to > give them something to do. They are > much more satisfied. > Your right though, our generation > and their's is so much different. I'd > like to hear how others are addressing > this issue. ======================================== MESSAGE: THANK YOU, THANK YOU FOR THIS WONDERFUL TOPIC!!! AUTHOR: MollySue DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 12:56 p.m. Sorry for the shouting, I'm just in awe of the great responses so far!! It feels so exciting to hear my thoughts and feelings reaffirmed by others!! I'm sending a link to this board to a public school teacher friend who disagrees with homeschooling completely. She says she just doesn't get it at all, she thinks all homeschooled kids can do when they are older is be factory workers or farm laborers. I'm trying to at least get her to see what we do and why we do it, I feel sure that the only reason she thinks like she does is from ignorance. Anyway, on to the meat of the topic...I believe that as humans we need interaction with other humans on many different levels. I can see the views of the moms who want to include their children/families in everything, but there are other cultural divisions within our society that are in need of nurturing as well. I don't believe in turning my children over to the government for 8+ hours a day almost all year, but I do think that my kids need to understand how healthy relationships happen and with whom they happen. I am involved with a moms club that communicates almost exclusively through email and icq on a daily basis. We are 20+ strong and try to meet 2 times a month with our children at a park or mall playground(these are a godsend on rainy days!!) and once a month with just the moms for adult conversation. I don't feel this sends any bad messages to my children about me not wanting to be with them, I know there are times when they are playing that they definitely don't want interaction with me so I think it balances out. If we talk with our children about our needs and find out what their expectations are and let them know ours(a benefit of being home with them anyway), then I see no problem in getting away for a few hours now and then for pure recreational purposes(ie. NOT doing the grocery shopping or errands). Now, finding time to spend with my hubby....that's another topic!*G* ======================================== MESSAGE: I can so relate to the farm thing!!!... AUTHOR: MollySue DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 1:35 p.m. Response To: Re: Responsible parenting and reponsible children Author: Karla B Date: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 11:58 a.m. My favorite memories are of getting up at the crack(and I do mean crack) of dawn with my grandpa to go feed the cows and break the ice on the ponds(this was during our Christmas vacation in Oklahoma). I absolutely LOVED it!! We spent our summers trying to catch the barn cats and frogs at the ponds and playing explorer in the pastures. Now, my kids get to watch Cartoon Network at my parents home while my dad works in his shop and my mom works on her cross stitch and/or watches CNN all day on the other TV. Thankfully we don't spend long stretches of time visiting our parents even though my children adore them( I think it is the McDs toys calling). Right now my son is being *made* to pick up his Star Wars toys(he has waaaayyy too many thanks to grandma) and he is complaining that it is too hard. This drives me NUTS!!! I had put them away about a month ago in the top of my closet because of this problem, he begged for them today and I relented. I guess they are going back up there as soon as he gets them all put in the box! ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: OK, let's get to the nitty gritty..... AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 2:16 p.m. Response To: OK, let's get to the nitty gritty..... Author: Debra Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 3:48 p.m. Hi, Debra-- > OK, How you do guys ever find time > to be "alone" with your husbands. > I don't mind being with my kids, but > I really miss having time alone with > my husband. Occupational hazard! LOL! It's not just a problem for homeschooling families, either. I think ALL families with children go through this. Personally, I'm just grateful I live in a time and place in which most houses have more than one room. I don't know how the families living in one-room dwellings cope! Something to think about... Until our children were older (teenager-ish), we held tight to a 9:00 or 9:30 bedtime. We didn't insist that they go right to sleep, but we did reserve the right to commandeer the living room for our own private space for an hour or so each night, and woe betide the child who kept trotting in for another drink of water! (Of course, we made exceptions when the situation called for it...flexibility is my middle name.) > I guess since we don't have > family here for them to go off and visit, > it just makes it hard to deal with. We haven't had easy access to extended family, either. I'm sure it makes a difference...but I wouldn't know. *sigh* > Well that and keeping the house clean! > If I had solutions to those to problems > I would be a happy mommy!!! Clean house? What's that? Seriously, I learned early on to think of this place as a learning lab, not something out of House & Garden. A house should look INTERESTING, right? A sterile house would just intimidate our creative urges. (Or at least, that's what I always tell myself.) Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Bedtime AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 2:24 p.m. Response To: Re: OK, let's get to the nitty gritty..... Author: Cerelle Date: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 2:16 p.m. > Until our children were older (teenager-ish), > we held tight to a 9:00 or 9:30 bedtime. > We didn't insist that they go right > to sleep, but we did reserve the right > to commandeer the living room for our > own private space for an hour or so > each night, and woe betide the child > who kept trotting in for another drink > of water! Yes. Same here. The kids are in bed no later than 9:30 p.m. Daddy comes home and the evening belongs to the family until 9:30 the latest. >From then on is time for hubby and I. This has worked out well. Thankfully, we have relatives near by.... next door as a matter of fact. And we have at least 2 nights out of the month for "date nights." That also works well and it has spiced up our marriage like you wouldn't believe. I try to make these date nights very exciting. ;-D Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Relationships and a Home Centered Lifestyle AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 5:06 p.m. Response To: THANK YOU, THANK YOU FOR THIS WONDERFUL TOPIC!!! Author: MollySue Date: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 12:56 p.m. > Sorry for the shouting, I'm just > in awe of the great responses so far!! > It feels so exciting to hear my thoughts > and feelings reaffirmed by others!! > I'm sending a link to this board to > a public school teacher friend who disagrees > with homeschooling completely. Send her this link: http://www.hsu.edu/faculty/worthf/argue.html > I am involved with a moms club > that communicates almost exclusively > through email and icq on a daily basis. > We are 20+ strong and try to meet 2 > times a month with our children at a > park or mall playground(these are a > godsend on rainy days!!) and once a > month with just the moms for adult conversation. > I don't feel this sends any bad messages > to my children about me not wanting > to be with them, I know there are times > when they are playing that they definitely > don't want interaction with me so I > think it balances out. YES! Great point. Nothing wrong with having a little "mom time" here and there and to have the opportunity to make relationships and frienships with other like-minded people (as in your case other homeschoolers). >If we talk with > our children about our needs and find > out what their expectations are and > let them know ours(a benefit of being > home with them anyway), then I see no > problem in getting away for a few hours > now and then for pure recreational purposes YES. Absolutely. I do know of moms, however, that over-dose on this type of activity. Their need for "alone time" has taken over completely. They feel they need this alone time so they can be a better parent but yet their constant search for that takes them away from parenting itself. They are constantly out of the house. Then they say they are burned out. Golly, I would be too! You know, one of the best things that has ever happened to me was giving up our second vehicle! REALLY! Because I lack transportation I can't go out very much at all. The stress level in our home (and my stress level as well) has decreased greatly. There is just something wonderful about a home-centered atmosphere...given of course that there is peace and harmony in the home and that home is a fun place to be. No more running errands! No more doing favors for people...taking them to the airport! WHEW! I can be HOME! And yes....it's so relaxing. Thank you for your perspective. Enjoyed your post. Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Look at how well he knows what he wants and needs! :-) AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 5:21 p.m. Response To: How to cope with a suddenly clingy 7 y.o. boy??? Author: Pam J. Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 6:16 p.m. Hi, Pam! You know, my first thought when I read your post was how great it is that your son is able to express his feelings so well. I don't mean by clinging...although I suppose that's an expression of feelings, too. But I find it remarkable that came right out and said, "Mom, you know this homeschooling thing has made me much more connected to you now! It's hard for me to be away from you!" Wow! That's a kid who really knows himself and what he's feeling. And can put it into words, too! AND...he feels safe enough to express those feelings to you -- that's really something, you know? It's when kids exhibit strange behavior (strange to us, anyway) and don't KNOW why they're doing it or aren't old enough or verbal enough to SAY why they're doing it that we parents really have a big task on our hands. So there's one blessing to count, anyway. :-) Now -- any time I see a kid "regressing" in any way, I ask myself if there's some area he's been making huge developmental PROGRESS in lately. There's often a correlation. You know what they say: "One step forward over here, and two steps backward over there." It frequently happens just that way. Has he made big strides in some other sphere of "growing up" lately? He could be compensating for that scary feeling of increased competency by clinging a little more tightly to his "anchor" (that's you!). Does this make sense? As I remember it, 6-8 is a big age for quantum developmental leaps. And don't kid yourself: kids FEEL how much they're growing (mentally and physically), and it can be kind of scary. All psychology aside, though, I'll bet he does feel more attached to you now. Remember feeling so much love for your parents that it almost hurt? Remember being afraid that something might happen to them, or that you might somehow lose them? He could be going through a spell of that right now. I know that with clingy toddlers, the more you push them away, the tighter they cling. Yes, just like barnacles. But distraction is nearly always a useful tool, at any age, so if we can engage our children in something they really love doing WITH us, sooner or later they'll be ready to do it on their own, without our company. Now I think I'll sit back and listen to all the testimonials that are sure to flood in from mothers telling about their incredibly clingy kids...who blossomed into fiercely independent kids! LOL! Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: How can our perspective change? AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 5:40 p.m. Response To: alone time Author: Kathyj Date: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 7:58 a.m. > My kids were > both in middle school when I started > and I had always been a sahm. It was > difficult to get use to not having my > alone time and my few hours of freedom > (when the kids were at school). It has > almost been two years now and I have > gone through many changes. TELL ME ABOUT IT! Oh my goodness! If someone would have told me how homeschooling would have changed me I wouldn't have believed them. Here I am thinking my children are the ones that will be getting the education but you know...... I'm the one who has grown the most! Homeschooling, up to this point has been more about me, than about the children. > I went through a period of time > of feeling that I never got away from > our farm. Now, if I have to go to town > more than once a week, I feel that I > am wasting my time. HA! This is me! Just ask anyone who knows me. I HATE LEAVING THE HOUSE. Three years ago? You would have never heard me say this. > The other day, I realized that > I was hurting my kids unintentionally. > If I needed something and I saw something > that they could use, I (like most mothers) > would buy the things that they could > use and go without what I really needed. > I always felt that I could wait. This > honestly was not good for my kids. They > were being taught that their wants were > more important than other people's needs. > Now I try to be careful on my decisions. > Very good! Thanks for sharing this. It spoke to me, tremendously! I am very guilty of this and I know it can lead to raising children that don't appreciate what they have. > Do I need time away from them. > No and yes. I don't feel the need to > be away from my children. I do feel > the need to have a little bit of time > of not being a caretaker. YEP! That's it! Boy, did you just sum up my feelings! Kathy! I have enjoyed reading your post soooo much! What does it take for someone to change their perspective? In my case it took God to literally hit me over the head. But you know, I think a lot of people are never SATISFIED. Their outlook is a negative one. There are a lot of moms out there that simply DO NOT enjoy being with their children. They become exasperated. Even homeschoolers! See, I think homeschooling is so much more than academics....so much more. We have such a unique opportunity to be our children's main influence, to develop deep relationships with them. But instead of enjoying that opportunity we walk around stressed, getting upset over all the meaningless little things, yelling, complaining, fighting---cultivating an atmosphere in our home that is not pleasant to be in. How can our perspective change? Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: I have a testimonial! Wnat to hear the story of my sister??? AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 5:54 p.m. Response To: Look at how well he knows what he wants and needs! :-) Author: Cerelle Date: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 5:21 p.m. > Now I think I'll sit back and listen > to all the testimonials that are sure > to flood in from mothers telling about > their incredibly clingy kids...who blossomed > into fiercely independent kids! LOL! > > Cerelle Let me tell you the story of my sister! Hope she doesn't mind. She usually lurks around here. :-) Just the other day we were talking about this exact same thing. We were all sitting outside with my dad and while we were watching the kids ride their bikes we talked about what an incredibly clingy child she was. My sister was always CRYING! Ever since the day she was born! One time my parents sent her to a preschool because she needed to "decling". Well, there were countless times when the preschool van would drop her off at home and she had thrown up from all the crying she did. Kindergarten came around and my dad remembers the parent/teacher conferences where her teacher would say, "She isn't adjusting." The crying and clinginess continued till about, I would say, maybe 3rd grade. Now? She still cries. She cries during DISNEY movies! LOL! :-) That's just my sister. She is very emotional, very sentimental. Is she "clingy"? Not one bit. My sister is one of the strongest people I know. She married and moved away (something I've never done, so who is the real clingy one?). Her husband was in the Navy and she had to spend six months away from him while he was at sea. During that time, she gave birth to twin boys. She is very sure of herself, a great mommy, very independent. Because of the Navy life she has had to move several times and start over from scratch. My sister has made friends everywhere she has moved and everyone just loves her and cherishes her. So I say, give your child what he needs now so that he will have the security and confidence he will need as an adult! Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: That was a great one! Want to hear mine? AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 6:19 p.m. Response To: I have a testimonial! Wnat to hear the story of my sister??? Author: Giovanna Date: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 5:54 p.m. When I was huge-pregnant with Laurel, Ariel (3 at the time) was being incredibly whiny and clingy in a public restroom. An older, grandmotherly woman (total stranger) took pity on me and said, "Don't worry -- your next baby will be independent. The second children always are." Well, that woman was some kind of prophet, let me tell you. But I would never have guessed it at first. Laurel was just like your sister, Giovanna. She cried over everything, and got incredibly upset about little things. I remember taking a quilting class while Laurel (who was then 2 or 3) clung to me like a koala to a eucalyptus tree. But you should see that girl now! Whew! At 12, she was so mature and independent, they let her be an "exhibit explainer" at the museum. At 15, she got her first job as an assistant chef. Now, at 16, she juggles two different jobs, pays for all her own stuff, and gets herself everywhere she needs to go. We still love spending time together, but I practically have to make an appointment to see her! She embodies independence. We can't look at how a little child acts and think they'll stay that way forever. They DO change. And I believe that the more accepting we can manage to be of their childlike behavior, the easier it will be for them to grow naturally into "adult" behavior. Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: How can our perspective change? AUTHOR: Sandy DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 6:46 p.m. Response To: How can our perspective change? Author: Giovanna Date: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 5:40 p.m. Giovanna - The last point you made, doesn't it just absolutely scare the life out of you to be the main influence in your child's life? This is my 3rd year of homeschooling, and the further I get into it, the more scared I get. I love being with my kids - I just have a problem getting comfortable with the awesome responsibility I've taken on, with God's grace, of totally raising my kids. Does that make sense - I was one of 'those moms' that couldn't wait for all of her kids to be in school - I thought that spelled freedom! WRONG! When the time came for the 3rd one to start school, I just couldn't do it - things were already changing, attitudes, etc., with only 2 in school. So, we started homeschooling, and I feel that this is what God wants us to do, I am just petrified of screwing up!! Any pearls of wisdom for me? :) Thanks! Sandy ======================================== MESSAGE: About fear AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 7:11 p.m. Response To: Re: How can our perspective change? Author: Sandy Date: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 6:46 p.m. Sandy, I don't think there's a single homeschooler out there who doesn't feel that fear you speak of. Of course we're afraid! It IS an enormous, daunting responsibility. And sometimes the very folks who talk the bravest talk do surprising things -- they suddenly go out and buy a packaged curriculum or they put the kids in private school. Everyone feels it...that awful knowledge that if anything goes wrong, it will be OUR fault. We have no one else to blame! But you know what? It's OK. It really is. Fear is a survival skill. It keeps us alert, keeps us on our toes. It's that very fear of goofing up and dropping the ball that will help you do right by your kids. When you have the luxury of sharing the lion's share of responsibility with some other entity -- whether it's your children's education or their daily care -- you can afford to let your guard down a little. It makes it easier to slack off, and if things don't seem quite right, you can blame it on that other entity. (It's the school's fault that little Johnny's so rude and unruly. It's the babysitter's fault that Caroline refuses to eat her vegetables. Or whatever...) Yep, when you're a homeschooler, you know where the buck stops, all right. But don't let it crush your spirit. You'll also get to take all the credit for how beautifully your kids turn out! :-) But the other side of the coin is that you won't really be the only influence in their lives. Sure, you'll be the primary influence in these early years. But soon they'll be absorbing information and attitudes from a variety of sources -- from the books they read, the people they work with, the other families they spend time with. You may be the sun in their world right now, but don't forget the influence of the moon and stars! Don't worry -- I'm not into astrology -- but I think you'll be surprised by how their orbits will widen in the next few years. And you'll be ever so glad then that you HAVE been such a major influence in their lives! Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: How can our perspective change? AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 7:14 p.m. Response To: Re: How can our perspective change? Author: Sandy Date: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 6:46 p.m. > Giovanna - The last point you made, > doesn't it just absolutely scare the > life out of you to be the main influence > in your child's life? HA! Absolutely. I am sometimes going about this thing all happy and go-lucky then all of the sudden the sobering realization of what I'm REALLY DOING pops into my head. WOW! This is why it's important that we all have people that support us though this journey---even if it's just like-minded friends via the internet. I also rely on God for support in this whole thing and my husband is a big support as well. > This is my 3rd > year of homeschooling, and the further > I get into it, the more scared I get. > I love being with my kids - I just have > a problem getting comfortable with the > awesome responsibility I've taken on, > with God's grace, of totally raising > my kids. Does that make sense . YES! More than you know! > I was > one of 'those moms' that couldn't wait > for all of her kids to be in school > - I thought that spelled freedom! WRONG! > When the time came for the 3rd one to > start school, I just couldn't do it > - things were already changing, attitudes, > etc., with only 2 in school. So, we > started homeschooling, and I feel that > this is what God wants us to do, I am > just petrified of screwing up!! Any > pearls of wisdom for me? :) Pearls of widom? Well, I'm still way back here on this thing. My children are still small. Cerelle has "been there and done that". It's always great to talk to others who have made it to the end. It's inspiring. I have also, at times, been afraid of messing up. But you know.... I'm a big believer in LOVE. If that is our main motivation, we will make mistakes, but it will all work itself out at the end. Call me idealistic but I have a hard time seeing how any parent that chooses this road in parenting (homeschooling I mean) could go wrong. If we all see it as an opportunity to bond with our children and to let them flourish the way God intended them to flourish, it will all be OK. And I can tell you this because you've mentioned that God has called you to do this...... If He called you, He will equip you. He isn't going to let you down. Don't forget that! Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Relationships and a Home Centered Lifestyle AUTHOR: Jacquie DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 7:30 p.m. Response To: Relationships and a Home Centered Lifestyle Author: Giovanna Date: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 5:06 p.m. What a terrific topic, Giovanna! So many times people ask me "how can you stand to be home all day with your children?" or "what do you DO all day?" as if it is a punishment to be the primary influence in your children's lives. I do have to admit I can overschedule our afternoons a bit. I really enjoy the days when we don't get into the car and go anywhere. I'm not ready to give up my wheels yet though! One thing that I have found beneficial in living with my kids 24/7 is to have an afternoon quiet time. My 2 1/2 year old is giving up his naps but he still goes into his room for 1 1/2 hours where he quietly looks at books or just lays and rests on the floor and "talks" to his stuffed bear. My 6 1/2 yr. son works on quiet activities like building with Legos, Lincoln Logs, or he likes to paint, write stories or read books. This allows me a much needed break before the afternoon outdoor activities and dinner prep. I also have a monthly night out with good friends and a monthly "date" with my husband. I also rise at 5:45 to jog and clear my head before our busy day. These activities help me to stay fresh and focused on my priorities which is taking care of my family. > > Send her this link: > http://www.hsu.edu/faculty/worthf/argue.html > > YES! Great point. Nothing wrong > with having a little "mom time" > here and there and to have the opportunity > to make relationships and frienships > with other like-minded people (as in > your case other homeschoolers). > YES. Absolutely. > I do know of moms, however, that > over-dose on this type of activity. > Their need for "alone time" > has taken over completely. They feel > they need this alone time so they can > be a better parent but yet their constant > search for that takes them away from > parenting itself. They are constantly > out of the house. Then they say they > are burned out. Golly, I would be too! > > You know, one of the best things > that has ever happened to me was giving > up our second vehicle! REALLY! Because > I lack transportation I can't go out > very much at all. The stress level in > our home (and my stress level as well) > has decreased greatly. There is just > something wonderful about a home-centered > atmosphere...given of course that there > is peace and harmony in the home and > that home is a fun place to be. No more > running errands! No more doing favors > for people...taking them to the airport! > WHEW! I can be HOME! And yes....it's > so relaxing. > Thank you for your perspective. > Enjoyed your post. > Giovanna > ======================================== MESSAGE: Alot going on here...Warning!! Whine session. AUTHOR: annette DATE: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 8:43 p.m. Hi guys, DH started a new job and I am alone with the kids all of the time now. He leaves at about 5:00AM, is home one night a week at 6:00PM. 4 nights a week he has outside the home commitments. He leaves soon on a business trip for three days and two nights. The kids miss him and are acting up... not being bad really, just joking around alot. I can't keep a straight face while I am telling them to knock it off which fuels their "creative juices." When DH does get time at home he is tired and doesn't want to do anything, like yard work, house maintence, all the man stuff. I can't do it all! But I hate looking at a sloppy yard. I probably just neede to vent...it is also PMS time too. Everythign is worse then. LOL ======================================== MESSAGE: I'd rather be with my family than any one else AUTHOR: Heidi DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 5:25 a.m. Even before I began homeschooling, I always really enjoyed spending lots of time with my kids. While our friends where still out partying on the weekends, my idea of a great evening was watching and movie and popping some popcorn with my children. As both of my parents have passed away and I have no siblings, I have never had that "luxery" of just dropping my kids of so I could go about my business without them once in a while. They have come with me everywhere, and I love it. And at this point I have 5 boys, 3 of which I homeschool, (16 year old is in ps, and I have a 7 month old as well), and I love every minute of it. Sure it get's hectice at times, and I don't get to do the kind of stuff I used to have time to do, but my priorities have changed a whole lot too. While many of my friends, even the ones that work full time, still need alot of time out of the house and away from their kids, I have never felt that need. I have noticed that kind of puts me in a minority with most mothers. My Husband is also wonderful, and helps me make time for myself if needed. My husbands boss saidj to me once, " you know with 5 kids and homeschooling too, you've lost all your privacy." And I guess that's sort of true, but I don't mind, it's worth it when I see the progress my kids are making. I can't think of anyone I'd rather being spending my time with than my kids! ======================================== MESSAGE: How often do you "really" get out alone AUTHOR: anne DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 5:27 a.m. How often do you get out alone? The women in my hs support group say never but I know they go out alone sometimes because I see them driving down the street. So please...how often do you really get out alone? I go out alone one night a week to do my shopping and all errands. I feel like I need more space. Argghhhhh ======================================== MESSAGE: ice storm today--kids in role reversal AUTHOR: Lisa Torres DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 5:55 a.m. We have an ice storm today, and the public schools are closed. My home-schooled 17 year old son is out of the house, since he is working today. He rode in to the next town when my husband went to work, will work on math in the library till it's time to walk to work. Afterwards, he has a date to practice with a band he's in (if the roads allow). My public schooled 12 yo daughter is home, lying on the couch, with "nothing to do syndrome". It makes me realize that homeschooling has made my son so much more involved with life and independent! He keeps going regardless of weather, and he's been much healthier since being homeschooled. My daughter is still relying on others to plan her activities for her. Absent that, she can't think of much to do! Of course, nothing I suggest is satisfactory to her...Hurrah for homeschooling! ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Alot going on here...Warning!! Whine session. AUTHOR: Angela (VA) DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 6:25 a.m. Response To: Alot going on here...Warning!! Whine session. Author: annette Date: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 8:43 p.m. Annette,hang in there! It is always difficult to adjust to a new schedule, especially if you "lose" a helper around the house. Here are a few things we did while dh was in grad school for 8 years. We sat down and tried to figure what things needed to be fixed and put them on a list. Some things dh could do, some things I could do, some things needed a "professional" and some things just needed to be let go. It just seemed like it was too much...we ended up selling the house and moving into an apartment. Of course, that has its own hassles, but it made things sooo much easier in the area of maintenance. Another thing I did was make out my own schedule and tried to include some kind of studying or a hobby in it. This will help you keep mentally sharp enough to have what it takes to get through this. A good sense of humor goes a long way too! We also found that by eliminating some of the clutter around us that we had less to clean up, and less for the kids to clean up. If you can't use it for at least 3 different things, then get rid of it (or put it in storage). Now that dh finally is home, his job does take him away at times. We often go with him on his business trips, and use that time to go on field trips with the kids. It's school on the road. Hope this helps...give it time, because it is hard to shift gears very suddenly. > Hi guys, DH started a new job and > I am alone with the kids all of the > time now. He leaves at about 5:00AM, > is home one night a week at 6:00PM. > 4 nights a week he has outside the home > commitments. He leaves soon on a business > trip for three days and two nights. > The kids miss him and are acting up... > not being bad really, just joking around > alot. I can't keep a straight face while > I am telling them to knock it off which > fuels their "creative juices." > When DH does get time at home he is > tired and doesn't want to do anything, > like yard work, house maintence, all > the man stuff. I can't do it all! But > I hate looking at a sloppy yard. I probably > just neede to vent...it is also PMS > time too. Everythign is worse then. > LOL ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: How often do you "really" get out alone AUTHOR: Traci DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 6:35 a.m. Response To: How often do you "really" get out alone Author: anne Date: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 5:27 a.m. I try to get out on my own on Sat, or Sun afternoon. That's the only time I have because dd works too late for me to do it in the evening. I rarely am gone for more than 3 hours. It's 1/2 hour into town, so that doesn't leave much time for errands. My ideal would be at least once a month to have the whole day to myself. That may sound selfish, but I think the kids need some alone time with dad too. I think it helps their relationship to be with him with out me around sometimes. > How often do you get out alone? > The women in my hs support group say > never but I know they go out alone sometimes > because I see them driving down the > street. So please...how often do you > really get out alone? > I go out alone one night a week > to do my shopping and all errands. I > feel like I need more space. Argghhhhh > ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Responsible parenting and reponsible children AUTHOR: denise DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 6:58 a.m. Response To: Responsible parenting and reponsible children Author: Giovanna Date: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 11:02 a.m. My disjointed, opinionated, two-cents worth: I believe the media can have a terrible influence on impressionable minds. As I am writing this, my son is watching a cartoon, and will probably ask me to buy 5-10 different products he sees on commercials. Angela's solution to the TV problem is very appealing to me right now, and I am thinking that we should do the same thing. Right now I am limiting the amount of time spent, but allowing commercial programming... I think that children and adults, when barraged with the images and marketing propoganda in the media, have to really go against a strong flow to think independently and determine their own values. There has to be another influence outside the media that is greater than the one in 'the box'. I imagine that in our culture, for the most part, the media outweighs the 'other' by a longshot, time-wise. As a new parent, I was a victim to all the trendy magazine advice (as most new parents probably are) with child-rearing issues, but fairly early on began consulting other moms and my own mother more. The media certainly helped to feed a very LARGE self-esteem problem I had as a Stay At Home Mother over several years. I had days where I saw my son as a huge obstacle to my own self-fulfillment, and looked forward to putting him in activities and sending him off to school because I accepted the idea that staying at home was akin to imprisonment. But something inside my heart held the truth and eventually my mind caught up with the reality, that no matter what the television or glossy magazine covers told me - even with my no make up, hair in a ponytail, jeans worn out in the knees from playing on the floor, baby food and baby throw-up stained T-shirt fashion statement - no matter what this busy professional in the pantyhose commercial or that lovely celebrity in the magazine article was doing, self-fulfillment for me was right here in my arms, gazing up at me with eyes that say "You are the best and most important person in the world." ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: How often do you "really" get out alone AUTHOR: psam ordener DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 7:13 a.m. Response To: Re: How often do you "really" get out alone Author: Traci Date: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 6:35 a.m. I get out every Sunday afternoon, leave the boys with Dad and go browsing through shops, etc. I try not to do errands, but to spend time recharging my own batteries. Often I come home having spent no money at all, but I feel so much better! I browse the fabric stores (can't browse with boys along - get what I want and get out), book stores, ladies' wear, antiques, needlework shops, just any place I wouldn't be comfortable watching little kids. I love it, but I'd rather get out with DH once in a while (no kids). ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Responsible parenting and reponsible children AUTHOR: psam ordener DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 7:23 a.m. Response To: Responsible parenting and reponsible children Author: Giovanna Date: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 11:02 a.m. > On a list I'm on we have been talking > about raising responsible, mature children. > We have also been talking about the > differences between children NOW as > opposed to children born say, 80 years > ago. I feel like the public schools are creating some of the problem. My son is 11yo, and this is our first year of homeschooling, so we see differences between the kids he used to see daily in PS and those he sees now (homeschool kids). PS kids are much more age-conscious, much less willing to share or interact with anyone younger. There's an edge to them that I never noticed until we started spending time with kids who don't have it. It's like, "4th grade against the world". Now in home school we don't make that grade distinction, and kids of all ages play together when we get together at the park. There's none of that "ignore him - he's a little brother and therefore unworthy of our attention" attitude. I was watching my kids yesterday - the 11yo and the 5yo - sitting at the table working on their projects. The 5yo got stuck, and the 11yo went over to him, explained patiently how to do it, then patted the little one on the shoulder and said, "Good! I knew you could do it!" I thought - this is what homeschool is all about. This is why I'm home with my kids. This is really worth it. ======================================== MESSAGE: It doesn't sound selfish to me at all! AUTHOR: annette DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 8:14 a.m. Response To: Re: How often do you "really" get out alone Author: Traci Date: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 6:35 a.m. > I try to get out on my own on Sat, > or Sun afternoon. That's the only time > I have because dd works too late for > me to do it in the evening. I rarely > am gone for more than 3 hours. It's > 1/2 hour into town, so that doesn't > leave much time for errands. My ideal > would be at least once a month to have > the whole day to myself. That may sound > selfish, but I think the kids need some > alone time with dad too. I think it > helps their relationship to be with > him with out me around sometimes. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: I'd rather be with my family than any one else AUTHOR: annette DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 8:20 a.m. Response To: I'd rather be with my family than any one else Author: Heidi Date: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 5:25 a.m. Well Heidi, considering your background I can see why you feel the way that you do. I had a very rough childhood and always longed for a *normal* family. Now I have it and I do cherish it...despite my whine a few posts down. LOL I really think that where we have come from will color our perspective about our families. It sounds like you and I have situations that make us really really appreciate our families. Not that the mom's who want a break don't appreciate their families....I KNOW that you do. You just want to read a book and think a thought with out all of the happy little campers hangin out right by your legs. There is nothing wrong with that in my book. *G* > Even before I began homeschooling, > I always really enjoyed spending lots > of time with my kids. While our friends > where still out partying on the weekends, > my idea of a great evening was watching > and movie and popping some popcorn with > my children. As both of my parents have > passed away and I have no siblings, > I have never had that "luxery" > of just dropping my kids of so I could > go about my business without them once > in a while. They have come with me everywhere, > and I love it. And at this point I have > 5 boys, 3 of which I homeschool, (16 > year old is in ps, and I have a 7 month > old as well), and I love every minute > of it. Sure it get's hectice at times, > and I don't get to do the kind of stuff > I used to have time to do, but my priorities > have changed a whole lot too. While > many of my friends, even the ones that > work full time, still need alot of time > out of the house and away from their > kids, I have never felt that need. I > have noticed that kind of puts me in > a minority with most mothers. My Husband > is also wonderful, and helps me make > time for myself if needed. My husbands > boss saidj to me once, " you know > with 5 kids and homeschooling too, you've > lost all your privacy." And I guess > that's sort of true, but I don't mind, > it's worth it when I see the progress > my kids are making. I can't think of > anyone I'd rather being spending my > time with than my kids! ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Alot going on here...Warning!! Whine session. AUTHOR: annette DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 8:23 a.m. Response To: Re: Alot going on here...Warning!! Whine session. Author: Angela (VA) Date: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 6:25 a.m. Thanks for the input. The list is a good idea. I am feeling better this morning. Of course the kids aren't up yet so time will tell if I am truly feeling better or if it is the illusion of being alone to drink my coffee and be on the computer that is giving me these feelings of peace and contentment!! LOL > Annette,hang in there! > It is always difficult to adjust > to a new schedule, especially if you > "lose" a helper around the > house. Here are a few things we did > while dh was in grad school for 8 years. > > We sat down and tried to figure > what things needed to be fixed and put > them on a list. Some things dh could > do, some things I could do, some things > needed a "professional" and > some things just needed to be let go. > It just seemed like it was too much...we > ended up selling the house and moving > into an apartment. Of course, that has > its own hassles, but it made things > sooo much easier in the area of maintenance. > > Another thing I did was make out > my own schedule and tried to include > some kind of studying or a hobby in > it. This will help you keep mentally > sharp enough to have what it takes to > get through this. A good sense of humor > goes a long way too! > We also found that by eliminating > some of the clutter around us that we > had less to clean up, and less for the > kids to clean up. If you can't use it > for at least 3 different things, then > get rid of it (or put it in storage). > > Now that dh finally is home, his > job does take him away at times. We > often go with him on his business trips, > and use that time to go on field trips > with the kids. It's school on the road. > > Hope this helps...give it time, > because it is hard to shift gears very > suddenly. ======================================== MESSAGE: Living on the farm AUTHOR: Kathyj DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 8:44 a.m. Response To: Re: Responsible parenting and reponsible children Author: Karla B Date: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 11:58 a.m. Both my husband and myself grew up on farms. We both learned to milk cows, feed the pigs, take care of the garden, and I even did a year learning about sheep. My Dad had lots of stories to tell, and I loved listening to them. He told stories about digging out basements with a team of horses. He told stories about WWII. We did have t.v. but we didn't watch it that much. We had to get up early to go out to milk the cows. It is true that you can be close to nature and take things slower on the farm IF YOU WANT TO. When I became an adult, I lived in town for many years because of my job. When our children were small, we lived on the outskirts of Tokyo. We now live on a small farm again. (O.k. I do like the country.) Looking back over my life, I honestly believe that you can have that slow, enjoyable life whether you live in the city or out on a farm. It might be harder to take walks in the city and to be alone but I believe that the slow, enjoyable feeling comes from an attitude within you, not where you live. You just decide that you are going to relax and enjoy today. I don't allow my kids to fill up their evenings with outside activities. About 2 nights a week is the extent of my limit. I don't let them talk on the phone to their friends after 5:00. I was taught that the evening time was for family. I don't let my teens disappear into their bedrooms to watch t.v. alone. I try to have family time with and without the t.v. If there is not an enjoyable show on, the t.v. goes off. It is not kept on because of habit. We do have games to play. For some reason, my husband and I enjoy playing tri-ominos. (Tri-ominoes are triangle dominoes.) My kids play Clue, and card games. They put together models. Many times we just sit and talk and laugh. These things can be done in the city or in the country. In this day and age, there are many farm people who are always on the go. They don't have a relaxed attitude. My minister has a good label for the people who are not content. He calls it "a frantic search for happiness". Whenever our family gets real busy, I do an attitude check to see if we are on "a frantic search for happiness" trip. Kathy ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: It doesn't sound selfish to me at all! AUTHOR: denise DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 8:58 a.m. Response To: It doesn't sound selfish to me at all! Author: annette Date: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 8:14 a.m. Me either. And I guess I am spoiled, too. I meet my husband at his work in the afternoon three times a week (most weeks) and I go to the gym and do whatever I would like/need to do alone on those days. I often leave on Saturday mornings to go to art or craft shows. Saturday mornings are 'lazy' for our family most of the time, or dad and son have scout activities. I feel very fortunate to be able to do this. A couple of times, I have taken a week and gone on vacation alone, visiting my (then) single sister or my mom (who does not take off work, so I still get 'solitude') out in the mountains. It has been very good for me, and another neat thing about it is the perspective gained by being away. I can see that the things that were 'getting to me' are mostly pretty trivial stuff and I always come home feeling that I am 'blessed above all women' by having the family that I do. The thing we are deficient in is 'dating'. If Traci is selfish, then I am self-absorbed. ======================================== MESSAGE: Changing perspectives AUTHOR: Kathyj DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 8:58 a.m. Response To: How can our perspective change? Author: Giovanna Date: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 5:40 p.m. I think that you are right about some people never being satisfied. But that goes along with them not taking the responsiblity for what they think and their life decisions. They seem to always blame the circumstances or someone else for their problems. I believe that a person has to judge themselves. They should not judge themselves with a sharp, critical attitude but with an attitude of wanting to grow mentally and spritually as they grow physically. After all, we are a "work in progress" until we die. :-) Kathy ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: How often do you "really" get out alone AUTHOR: Abbey DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 9:11 a.m. Response To: How often do you "really" get out alone Author: anne Date: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 5:27 a.m. One of the nicest things here is that the public library is open until 9:00 PM most weekdays, so, after DH gets home from work, and, after dinner, I still have time to get out to the library by myself. Free, and fun - the best of both worlds! Abbey > How often do you get out alone? > The women in my hs support group say > never but I know they go out alone sometimes > because I see them driving down the > street. So please...how often do you > really get out alone? > I go out alone one night a week > to do my shopping and all errands. I > feel like I need more space. Argghhhhh > ======================================== MESSAGE: Cerelle, you won't believe this.... AUTHOR: Pam J. DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 10:56 a.m. Response To: Look at how well he knows what he wants and needs! :-) Author: Cerelle Date: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 5:21 p.m. > You know, my first thought when > I read your post was how great it is > that your son is able to express his > feelings so well. Thanks Cerelle! I never thought of it that way, but YES, he is VERY expressive. We are extremely close and he does seem to tell me anything and everything (though I don't pry). Yet, at the same time he is ALL BOY, if you know what I mean...totally into the rough and tumble testosterone world-view of life! Yup, all brooms are guns-in-disguise when he's holding them. He talks big and brave, but will cave as soon as the sun goes down! LOL! I think it is hard for us parents to "get" that...kids, like adults are complex individuals...just tinier in size! AND that they are changing, growing, and evolving all the time. Hopefully, even as adults we continue to redefine ourselves, changing, and growing until our time on this blue planet is through. I just have to share this latest development with you though...would you believe that my son asked me yesterday to call up his grandparents for him. He has decided to (in his words)"...try an experiment and see if I can sleep over at grandma's house all by myself, without you!" I guess even he realizes that this (his fear) is something worth overcoming! I am still in a state of shock this morning, but I think I can handle it *grin*. Just hope I can resist the urge to wear the (cordless) phone around my neck this evening! Thanks for your wonderful post, Cerelle. I loved every bit of it. As usual you have eloquently put my mind at ease! Pam J. ======================================== MESSAGE: Susan, I loved reading your post! AUTHOR: Pam J. DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 11:07 a.m. Response To: Re: How to cope with a suddenly clingy 7 y.o. boy??? Author: Susan Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 9:17 p.m. Hi Susan! Thanks for sharing your experience, I really loved what you wrote! It made me chuckle (several times), though I bet there are plenty of times you are, like me...just hoping the kids won't find where you've hidden yourself for at least 10 minutes. :-) Try locking yourself in the car! Good luck! From, Pam J. (who is crossing her fingers that her son will REALLY be able to spend the night at grandpa's tonight! See my reply to Cerelle below) ======================================== MESSAGE: My career in kindergarten AUTHOR: Judy in TN DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 12:26 p.m. Response To: That was a great one! Want to hear mine? Author: Cerelle Date: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 6:19 p.m. When I was supposed to start kindergarten, I refused to go. I don't remember clinging, but I'm sure I did. My brother, sister, and I rode bikes down dirt roads to a one-room schoolhouse. They told me that I would get halfway there, and refuse to go any further. My brother was so desperate to be able to get to school with me and on time, that he fashioned a covered wagon out of a Radio Flyer, canvas, and wire, and pulled it behind his bike. The theory was that I would ride in it and the gimmick would get me where I needed to go. It was only a temporary solution, and I vividly remember the teacher telling me that if I didn't come to school, the police would put my dad in jail. Every night I would go home, look at my farmer father, get hit with an overwhelming wave of guilt, and cry for a few hours. What they finally got out of me was that I had heard my mother comment to an aunt on the phone that she wasn't prepared for the empty nest so soon. My two-year-old brother had died a year or so earlier, and she was left with no kids at home. To go to school therefore equalled deserting my mom. A little clinging may have done us both some good. In my case, I think it should have been apparent by how long this went on and the severity of it, that some basic needs weren't being met, and apparently I wasn't real skillful then at voicing my opinions. I don't know how skillful I am at it now, but I'm sure giving it enough practice!! How fortunate we are when our kids can really express what they're thinking!! > When I was huge-pregnant with Laurel, > Ariel (3 at the time) was being incredibly > whiny and clingy in a public restroom. > An older, grandmotherly woman (total > stranger) took pity on me and said, > "Don't worry -- your next baby > will be independent. The second children > always are." > Well, that woman was some kind > of prophet, let me tell you. But I would > never have guessed it at first. Laurel > was just like your sister, Giovanna. > She cried over everything, and got incredibly > upset about little things. I remember > taking a quilting class while Laurel > (who was then 2 or 3) clung to me like > a koala to a eucalyptus tree. > But you should see that girl now! > Whew! At 12, she was so mature and independent, > they let her be an "exhibit explainer" > at the museum. At 15, she got her first > job as an assistant chef. Now, at 16, > she juggles two different jobs, pays > for all her own stuff, and gets herself > everywhere she needs to go. We still > love spending time together, but I practically > have to make an appointment to see her! > She embodies independence. > We can't look at how a little child > acts and think they'll stay that way > forever. They DO change. And I believe > that the more accepting we can manage > to be of their childlike behavior, the > easier it will be for them to grow naturally > into "adult" behavior. > Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: I have my oldest ds watch my dd occasionally to do errands... AUTHOR: Jole DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 1:03 p.m. Response To: How often do you "really" get out alone Author: anne Date: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 5:27 a.m. but I don't really consider that "going out alone". It just makes doing errands quicker. Other than that I would have to say not a lot really. I am going to spend all day this Sat. with a group of women making quilts for the homeless. It is a once a year quilt-a-thon that I've done for the past couple of years. There just never seems to be enogh hours in the day to do everything and then have time to go out alone! Part of my problem is the fact that I don't really like to go out in the evening. If I did, I could probably have more time alone than I do. Jole ======================================== MESSAGE: 24 hours a day with the kids... AUTHOR: MaryN DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 2:01 p.m. Well, this is a good subject.. I think we actually have it easier than those who aren't together all year. Many of my friends whose children are in school start complaining they don't know what to do with the kids during holidays and summer vacation! I alway know what to do with them and have taught them to respect my privacy as I respect theirs. We also don't have the wind down miserable time their freinds go through after school. When they were really little we visited with other homeschool families which allowed me to socialize more and them too. >From the negative side- there are times I get stressed and what I do becomes a job rather than what I love to do at times. If they were at school my house MIGHT be immaculate, and I MIGHT greet them each evening with a smile and cookies. Tee hee! Mary ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: I'd rather be with my family than any one else AUTHOR: Salima DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 6:02 p.m. Response To: I'd rather be with my family than any one else Author: Heidi Date: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 5:25 a.m. > Even before I began homeschooling, > I always really enjoyed spending lots > of time with my kids. While our friends > where still out partying on the weekends, > my idea of a great evening was watching > and movie and popping some popcorn with > my children. As both of my parents have > passed away and I have no siblings, > I have never had that "luxery" > of just dropping my kids of so I could > go about my business without them once > in a while. They have come with me everywhere, > and I love it. And at this point I have > 5 boys, 3 of which I homeschool, (16 > year old is in ps, and I have a 7 month > old as well), and I love every minute > of it. Sure it get's hectice at times, > and I don't get to do the kind of stuff > I used to have time to do, but my priorities > have changed a whole lot too. While > many of my friends, even the ones that > work full time, still need alot of time > out of the house and away from their > kids, I have never felt that need. I > have noticed that kind of puts me in > a minority with most mothers. My Husband > is also wonderful, and helps me make > time for myself if needed. My husbands > boss saidj to me once, " you know > with 5 kids and homeschooling too, you've > lost all your privacy." And I guess > that's sort of true, but I don't mind, > it's worth it when I see the progress > my kids are making. I can't think of > anyone I'd rather being spending my > time with than my kids! I agree wholeheartedly with you! I have 5 children and since my first one was born almost 11 years ago, I have spent the vast majority of time with them. I can't think of anyone else I would like to spend time with either. I have seen my neighbors and people I know go out and leave their children to do whatever and try in almost everywhere possible to get away from their kids but even though mine do get on my nerves at times, I would rather have them with me than anyone else. I have also always felt that if I go out and enjoy things, I would also like to share this with my children. We have always gone to the library since they were infants, out to eat, to the parks, to museums and other places of interest and yes, I also love to watch TV and movies with them and pop popcorn!! I would much rather be at home than anywhere else. It is sad to see some parents who are away from their children so much that they hardly know them and their childhood flies by and they missed many golden opportunities that can never again be recaptured. That is why I want to treasure my time with my children now as much as possible in the hopes that they will remember their childhood with happy memories. I am glad to see there are other people who feel like I do. ======================================== MESSAGE: Effects of all this togetherness? AUTHOR: Julie DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 10:35 p.m. This is our 2nd year hsing, and my kids are incredibly close. Not that they don't spar occasionally, but they're always hugging and looking out for each other. People in stores and elsewhere comment on this sometimes like it is the weirdest thing! I just smile. Another side effect I ponder is that my kids are baffled by pushy kids. This one bothers my dh -- almost to the point of wanting to put them in ps at some point. For example, if kids are crowding around at a carnival or the like to get a free goodie or something, mine will hold back until there's a break in the action. They're pretty unassertive that way. Even an aggressive toddler at the park will send my 5 year old girl running to either me or her brother. I'd like to get her over this kind of behaviour. Any ideas? ======================================== MESSAGE: Once a month? AUTHOR: PattiC DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 10:43 p.m. Response To: How often do you "really" get out alone Author: anne Date: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 5:27 a.m. Once a month, maybe. We live in the middle of nowhere and my dh commutes a long way back and forth to work . On weekend he either wants to sports here with the kids( he has the car) or stay home. I do get bits and snatches of free time when the kids are having sports practices,etc. like that. But does 1.5 hours count if you are sitting there waiting? My kids are older (10 and 12) but must admit I went on the war trail this week and started sending to bed earlier so I could be alone with dh for a bit. > How often do you get out alone? > The women in my hs support group say > never but I know they go out alone sometimes > because I see them driving down the > street. So please...how often do you > really get out alone? > I go out alone one night a week > to do my shopping and all errands. I > feel like I need more space. Argghhhhh > ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Alot going on here...Warning!! Whine session. AUTHOR: PattiC DATE: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 10:53 p.m. Response To: Alot going on here...Warning!! Whine session. Author: annette Date: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 8:43 p.m. Hi Annette, My dh leaves for work at 5:20 every day and gets home at 7:30pm. When he does get home, he is wiped out and there is no opportunity for quality time for anyone, including me!!! We have been on this schedule for about 6 years and it is alot to carry, all the responsibilities are on us!!! You get used to a less than perfect lawn and become quite the handy woman!!! I get down about it too but really love where we live so am determined to make it work. We find that if he rings me up at lunch time, after I have fed the kids, we can fit in a nice chat and he can ask how our day is going when we all aren't dropping from exhaustion and are still making sense, sometimes he even gets a chat in with a good/naughty child who may need a little word of praise ( or not). I find the kids race for the phone if they want a little chat with dad too. It helps us keep things together. We also eat dinner together when he gets home about 75% of the time. Hope these ideas help. Patti > Hi guys, DH started a new job and > I am alone with the kids all of the > time now. He leaves at about 5:00AM, > is home one night a week at 6:00PM. > 4 nights a week he has outside the home > commitments. He leaves soon on a business > trip for three days and two nights. > The kids miss him and are acting up... > not being bad really, just joking around > alot. I can't keep a straight face while > I am telling them to knock it off which > fuels their "creative juices." > When DH does get time at home he is > tired and doesn't want to do anything, > like yard work, house maintence, all > the man stuff. I can't do it all! But > I hate looking at a sloppy yard. I probably > just neede to vent...it is also PMS > time too. Everythign is worse then. > LOL ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Once a month? AUTHOR: Sissy DATE: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 5:47 a.m. Response To: Once a month? Author: PattiC Date: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 10:43 p.m. My dh and I go out to eat by ourselves about once a month which I enjoy. As for going out by myself, I prefer to go to the library for a few hours of peace and quiet. I do this about one evening a month as well. When I run errands I take one of the kids ( I have 4). They take turns and we enjoy the one on one time together. ======================================== MESSAGE: LOL! Doesn't surprise me one bit! AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 6:56 a.m. Response To: Cerelle, you won't believe this.... Author: Pam J. Date: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 10:56 a.m. Pam, Kids can sure make us look like monkeys, can't they? :-) Just when we think we've got them pegged, they turn around and do something different. > Thanks Cerelle! I never thought > of it that way, but YES, he is VERY > expressive. I think children (well, people in general) are like jewels with many facets. The light bounces off them in all different directions, and where we're standing can determine what we see. I can't even count the number of times I've stayed focused on one particular, troublesome facet of a child's personality...until someone else's offhand comment helped me see the kid in a different light. (This is why it's good to have friends!) > Yet, > at the same time he is ALL BOY, if you > know what I mean...totally into the > rough and tumble testosterone world-view > of life! Yup, all brooms are guns-in-disguise > when he's holding them. He talks big > and brave, but will cave as soon as > the sun goes down! LOL! Ha! I've got one of those, too. > I guess even he realizes > that this (his fear) is something worth > overcoming! I am still in a state of > shock this morning, but I think I can > handle it *grin*. Just hope I can resist > the urge to wear the (cordless) phone > around my neck this evening! So, I have to ask -- how'd it go? Did he make it through the night? Did YOU make it through the night? My son has been going to work with my husband one day a week. I think it's great, of course, but it turns out that I really do miss him on those days. I'm used to having him around! Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: I'd rather be with my family than any one else AUTHOR: Jane DATE: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 9:17 a.m. Response To: I'd rather be with my family than any one else Author: Heidi Date: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 5:25 a.m. I agree! It is nice to see that there are others out there that feel the same. Why else do we have families if we don't want to be with them? My mother-in-law thinks we are hiding out at home, but even my 7 year old likes to be here. So I am not going to try to change that in her. I figure one day she will want to be out "on the run", so I may as well enjoy the time that she WANTS to be here with her mom and dad. Besides, there is not that much out there to go do anyway. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Responsible parenting and reponsible children AUTHOR: Jane DATE: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 9:29 a.m. Response To: Re: Responsible parenting and reponsible children Author: Angela (VA) Date: Monday, 1 February 1999, at 11:11 a.m. > I think you are right about the media. Think about this point- Just who decides what is going to be the "popular" gift at Christmas, that parents are going to race out and wait in lines and buy, if the store even has them. (Not this parent) Have you ever noticed that it is not parents thinking this is some great toy, since the toymakers haven't even had them out, it's the media. People are influenced too much by this. Parenting magazines are another point that I agree with you on. I realized the first book I read on the subject didn't pertain to my daughter at all. That was the last one I bought. Parents need to get back to doing what THEY think is best for their children and themselves. We need to remember that there are companies getting rich off of their being able to convince us that they know better than we do. ======================================== MESSAGE: I don't get enough time with the kids!!! AUTHOR: Holly DATE: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 12:08 p.m. I enjoy having my kids home. I have four under the age of seven and yes, it get's a little crazy around here at times. The problem is I don't get enough time with them. We live right next door to grandparents and that causes a problem because they spend most of their time at their house. I try to tell them if you are going outside to play then don't go to grandmas. I don't mind sometimes, but not EVERY day! It is much more fun at their house because they get to watch cartoons and eat junkfood all day. The only way to keep them from going down there is to keep them in the house all day. When I did put down my foot and told them they couldn't go into grandmas house at all, I got a phone call from a very upset grandma. She is dh's grandma. We have asked many times not to let them watch t.v. and not to give them candy, but they won't stop. I haven't had cable in years and I finally had it hooked up this week just so the kids would stay home for a little while, and so I could monitor what they watch because they let them watch whatever they want to. I am glad they have this time with their great grandparents, but I think it is causing many problems in the family. I don't know what to do. We really can't afford to move. We moved away one time and dh lost his job so we had to move back. I feel like I have no control over raising my kids. Am I being selfish? Does anyone else have this kind of problem? Suggestions would be nice. Thank you for letting me vent a little! Holly ======================================== MESSAGE: I was thinking about this today.... AUTHOR: MollySue DATE: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 12:52 p.m. Response To: Effects of all this togetherness? Author: Julie Date: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 10:35 p.m. > This is our 2nd year hsing, and > my kids are incredibly close. Not that > they don't spar occasionally, but they're > always hugging and looking out for each > other. People in stores and elsewhere > comment on this sometimes like it is > the weirdest thing! I just smile. My kids are best friends and play together wonderfully!! They don't hug a lot but they will stick up for one another. I get comments too. > Another side effect I ponder is > that my kids are baffled by pushy kids. > This one bothers my dh -- almost to > the point of wanting to put them in > ps at some point. For example, if kids > are crowding around at a carnival or > the like to get a free goodie or something, > mine will hold back until there's a > break in the action. They're pretty > unassertive that way. Even an aggressive > toddler at the park will send my 5 year > old girl running to either me or her > brother. I'd like to get her over this > kind of behaviour. Any ideas? This also bothered my husband but he's over it now because the pushy kids make him appreciate how nice ours are.*G* I may be way off on this one but here is my explanation for this behavior(the pushy kids'): When a child is learning to communicate with other humans they don't just start out speaking sentences, they usually use grunts and gestures. I see this pushiness as a form of social communication that hasn't advanced to the level of learning to take turns. Or perhaps it is the application of being forced to take turns or stand in line that was *taught* too early in a public school or daycare environment. The kids then feel like if they don't get their place in line for the goodies or whatever that they may loose their turn, therefore running over the more polite children. Our kids, since they don't experience this in a created environment but in a real life situation, are learning it the way it should happen. Does this make any sense? I *DO* think that as they get older and have more experiences they will learn to be more assertive and even teach others a thing or two about sharing and taking turns. It is very frustrating but I see it as a learning experience for all involved. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Good points.. AUTHOR: Lisa DATE: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 3:57 p.m. Response To: Good points.. Author: Karen in OH Date: Sunday, 31 January 1999, at 5:59 p.m. Karen, I agree with most of what you said with the exception of working moms. Women work for all different reasons. There are some moms who are better off working than staying at home. And yes those moms probably have issues that need addressed just like I'm sure you have issues, yours just aren't in the same area. Each family has a different situation and God guides us all in many different directions. I am sure there are many good Christian ladies (moms) who work outside their homes and God loves them all the same. I don't believe as Christians it is our place to judge someone elses life style because it doesn't fit our profile. I homeschool my children but worked for several years before making this choice. I has not been easy for me to adjust so quickly. Homeschooling does not come naturally for some. These are difficult times and we all face difficult choices in educating our children. I do agree that being in home is the best place, but not everyone feels that same inner pull to make the choice to homeschool. There are many benefits to homeschooling and many sacrifices to be made. For us the benefits outweight the sacrifices. I would encourage everyone to keep an open mind and ask God to guide you. > I really get tired of people telling > me that I *need* to get away from my > kids. Yes, there are times when I feel > overwhelmed, and am seeking some solitude, > but not the kind that takes me away > from my children. I enjoy being able > to be here, but just not be "on > call"... my husband will take over > and be the one to handle the squabbles, > the bottom-wiping, etc. I can concentrate > on doing something I enjoy, whether > it is read a book or be here on the > computer. Granted, it doesn't happen > often enough, but I just never have > wanted to escape from my kids, no matter > how stressed I have been. > We were having a discussion with > my daughter (7 yrs old) yesterday and > I was telling her how much I loved being > a mother and how I didn't want any other > job in the world... but that some of > her behaviors lately have been making > my job much harder for me to do and > that I wasn't enjoying my mommy job > as much as I used to. We asked for her > help in helping me be a good mom. > In another vein... I was having > a discussion with someone today about > staying home with our children and how > important it is. Even though she is > a sahm, she felt she had to defend her > sister (whom I don't even know) who > works full-time.. by saying something > like "She is a better mom if she > doesn't stay home." I can understand > it, but I told my husband later that > I feel that as a Christian, I can't > give that excuse for working outside > my home. If I can't be a good mother > and be around my children, then I feel > like *I* have a problem that needs to > be addressed. > How's that for a disjointed post? > > Bottom line, I LOVE being a full > time mom and wouldn't change it for > the world. Forget the Peace Corps... > *this* is the toughest job you'll ever > love! > Karen > ======================================== MESSAGE: Interesting AUTHOR: Kristen DATE: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 6:45 p.m. I have one in school yet, and I am homeschooling one. We just started about 4 weeks ago..right after Xmas vacation. I thought my daughter would tire of it quickly, and miss her friends, even though it was her initiative to homeschool. I also thought she might drive me crazy, because her personality and mine don't mesh well. But interstingly enough, she says she does not miss her friends. And we have a nice time together. I think it just goes to show, that kids don't need their peers as much as people tell us they do. And indeed they do need (and want) their parents. She plays with the neigbor girl every day, and there will be other friends as we get to know other homeschoolers, but I am still amazed that she is not totally bored being at home. It has been a pleasant surprise. However...Unlike the children I have read about on the other posts..my oldest kids fight continuously. My two oldest do not get along at all, and never have. They are extremely competitive, and suspicious of each other, and they have nothing in common at all. They are completely opposite of each other, and I don't think their personalities will allow them to become friends. It is exhausting having them both home together. I'm not sure what I'm going to do, when it comes time to homeschool them both. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: It doesn't sound selfish to me at all! AUTHOR: Kristen DATE: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 7:03 p.m. Response To: Re: It doesn't sound selfish to me at all! Author: denise Date: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 8:58 a.m. I'm with you sister!!! I too go out to the gym, sometimes in the mornings, (and the kids go to the gym day care). Or, I might go in the evenings, for an hour or two. I try to balance it, so I'm not gone too often in the eves, because I also work part time evenings after 7pm. I pay for that in sleep hours I guess. So, I get my adult conversation that way too sometimes. I am currently training for a marathon, so I am getting outside more on the weekends for longer walks, and let me tell you, that really helps clear the head. I feel great, and the winter doesn't seem so confining anymore! I also take vacations alone. This year, I am traveling to Alaska for a week, for my marathon. I am hoping my husband can come with me, but that will only be if my mother comes in to watch the kids. We otherwise have no daycare available to us. I have been to Oklahoma for a weekend to visit family, and I used to go the shore every year for a few days with friends from work. My husband goes hunting every year..so why not??!! When I was in school, and had to take performance exams, I traveled to New York by myself. I had a great time. I love to be able to tell the kids stories about those vacations. And they like hearing them. I think its good for them to see their mother (and dad too) as an independent person who can set goals, and accomplish them. And they get lots of time with their father, who is equally good at caring for them,(and the house) and teaching them. Unfortunately, we too are deficient in dating. We do alot of tag teaming to give each other time away, but we rarely ever get out together, just the two of us. So, if anyone is spoiled, I guess its ME!! LOL. But I thank God every day, that I have the opportunity that I have, the job that I have, with all of its flexibility, and the husband that I have, who supports my independence. I am truly very blessed. > Me either. And I guess I am spoiled, > too. > I meet my husband at his work in > the afternoon three times a week (most > weeks) and I go to the gym and do whatever > I would like/need to do alone on those > days. I often leave on Saturday mornings > to go to art or craft shows. Saturday > mornings are 'lazy' for our family most > of the time, or dad and son have scout > activities. I feel very fortunate to > be able to do this. > A couple of times, I have taken > a week and gone on vacation alone, visiting > my (then) single sister or my mom (who > does not take off work, so I still get > 'solitude') out in the mountains. It > has been very good for me, and another > neat thing about it is the perspective > gained by being away. I can see that > the things that were 'getting to me' > are mostly pretty trivial stuff and > I always come home feeling that I am > 'blessed above all women' by having > the family that I do. > The thing we are deficient in is > 'dating'. > If Traci is selfish, then I am > self-absorbed. > ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Responsible parenting and reponsible children AUTHOR: Kristen DATE: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 7:19 p.m. Response To: Re: Responsible parenting and reponsible children Author: Jane Date: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 9:29 a.m. I have to say something too!! :-). The main reason I have turned the TV off, is that is just plain boring. There is nothing on that interests me. And it bothers me that all my kids do is watch nicelodian. So, we have been "weaning" the TV. Now, in the eves, we don't even have it on. We all snuggle up in our king size bed, and I read them a good story. You should see them. My 10 year old son hangs on every word of The Secret Garden. Most nights, I end up reading for an hour, because he begs me to read more. It has become an adventure. I had forgotten how much I loved these books. Next we will be embarking on a trip to Narnia. But, you are right about their satisfaction. They do seem more satisfied without the TV. It seems as if the TV breeds discontent with everything, with what they have, who their friends are, their families, or even what we eat for dinner!! Now that we read instead, they seem full of imagination and wonder. The same happens in the summer,when we spend many weekends at the riverside cabin that we have. They are forever hunting frogs, toads, and bugs. Or swimming in the river, or fishing, or building forts. I also limit how many evenings we run anywhere. Right now it is zero, mainly bec. I work some evenings, and they are unpredictable. But I really think they are happier being at home anyway. And in the spring time, we'll play a pick up game of ball, instead of organized soccer or tee ball. Its more fun that way anyhow. Oh well..just my 2 cents! > ======================================== MESSAGE: Mission Accomplished!!! AUTHOR: Pam J. DATE: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 8:24 p.m. Response To: LOL! Doesn't surprise me one bit! Author: Cerelle Date: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 6:56 a.m. Cerelle, I am happy to report that child and mother BOTH successfully handled their respective assignments...hence, the declaration of MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! My son seemed totally non-plussed by the whole thing, or maybe he is just a very good actor. :-) I forgot to mention that last night was also our wedding anniversary (he timed that well, didn't he, the crafty kid!) so we were delighted to have the night off and out! And I am proud to say that I only phoned in to check my messages ONCE! You are so right, just when you think that you've got these munchkins all figured out, they go and throw a huge curve ball at you! Do you think they plan it that way on purpose? Thanks for you support and great insight! Pam J. ======================================== MESSAGE: Three cheers! AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 8:54 p.m. Response To: Mission Accomplished!!! Author: Pam J. Date: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 8:24 p.m. Did he EVER time that right! Wow! > You are so right, just when you > think that you've got these munchkins > all figured out, they go and throw a > huge curve ball at you! Do you think > they plan it that way on purpose? Could be. Just to keep us guessing, right? Sometimes I do think they pick up on our concern and make an effort to change whatever it is that's been bothering us. This has happened in our family several times. I am s-l-o-w to criticize or coerce, but I do get antsy sometimes, and it often seems that just when I'm on the verge of addressing the problem, voila! The behavior or attitude or whatever disappears, or is at least modulated sufficiently that I no longer feel tempted to Take Measures (if you know what I mean). Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: I was thinking about this today.... AUTHOR: Allie DATE: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 9:14 p.m. Response To: I was thinking about this today.... Author: MollySue Date: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 12:52 p.m. Wow, Julie, you could have been talking about my boys! They exhibit exactly the same behaviour - it's something I've never really given much thought to, just thought it was a personal quirk, but how interesting to see that other hs children do the same thing! One thing that I've been thinking of doing, is to put them into a Christian martial arts program - we have one through our hs group. I worry about them when we go to the park, some kids can be very pushy, but mostly to teach some self-control. I do believe that they will grow out of it, but I pray that they won't become like the ps kids I see out there. We usually have what I call a "detox" period after they've played with ps kids. They pick up some bad behaviours and we have to re-teach proper behaviour for a little while. Thanks for your post - it made my day to see that I'm not alone! Allie > > My kids are best friends and play > together wonderfully!! They don't hug > a lot but they will stick up for one > another. I get comments too. > This also bothered my husband but > he's over it now because the pushy kids > make him appreciate how nice ours are.*G* > > I may be way off on this one but > here is my explanation for this behavior(the > pushy kids'): > When a child is learning to communicate > with other humans they don't just start > out speaking sentences, they usually > use grunts and gestures. I see this > pushiness as a form of social communication > that hasn't advanced to the level of > learning to take turns. Or perhaps it > is the application of being forced to > take turns or stand in line that was > *taught* too early in a public school > or daycare environment. The kids then > feel like if they don't get their place > in line for the goodies or whatever > that they may loose their turn, therefore > running over the more polite children. > > Our kids, since they don't experience > this in a created environment but in > a real life situation, are learning > it the way it should happen. Does this > make any sense? I *DO* think that as > they get older and have more experiences > they will learn to be more assertive > and even teach others a thing or two > about sharing and taking turns. It is > very frustrating but I see it as a learning > experience for all involved. ======================================== MESSAGE: True Confessions: Son still sleeping with parents! AUTHOR: Pam J. DATE: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 10:34 p.m. Hi Everyone! I am bracing myself for some reactions here, but I just had to 'fess up and admit this. Talk about parenting 24-hours-a-day! Yup, even in my sleep! LOL! Yes, our dear 7 year old son still sleeps in our room. Though it is on the floor (next to mom's side of the bed) and he sleeps like a proverbial log, so we can practically scream in the bedroom (unintentional *blush*) and he NEVER gets up (has always been a deep sleeper) once he goes down. This all started when he was a baby. He is our only child. Of course we tried to make him sleep in his own room when he got older, but it was always an ordeal. My instincts told me to keep him close and let him be. Then about two years ago we became friends with another family, the husband was a psychiatrist. When I mentioned our ongoing sleeping arrangement, he and his wife both nodded. They let one of their sons sleep (on their bedroom floor, too) with them until he was nine. In his view (as a psychiatrist) it was more important to let the child have as much bonding and comforting as needed. But the important thing was that it had to be okay with BOTH parents! My husband and I have always been creative in finding time and privacy for ourselves. It hasn't always been easy, but we have managed. Having a weekly night out alone (with him sleeping overnight w/ grandparents) helped a lot. The reward has been a very happy, well-adjusted, and loving child, who, though he is still frightened of the usual boogie men and such, seems to be growing up pretty secure in the fact that he is totally supported and loved. We do set limits in all other areas, by the way. Okay, let me have it, if you feel like sharing your thoughts and experiences regarding the "Family Bed"...I've bared my soul (and my boudoir) to you! I'll have my hands over my eyes when I read your responses! :-) Pam ======================================== MESSAGE: I'm not shocked in the least AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 11:13 p.m. Response To: True Confessions: Son still sleeping with parents! Author: Pam J. Date: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 10:34 p.m. OK, Pam, you can uncover your eyes now. :-) I dunno, maybe this is still a controversial issue in some circles, but I'm not at all startled by your son's sleeping arrangements. I don't remember exactly how old our kids were when they "graduated" to their own beds full-time, but they weren't little bitty toddlers, that's for sure. I think the girls moved out of the family bed a little earlier than our son did, simply because they had each other. They went from our bed to sharing their own double bed, and that worked well for a few years until they were old enough to want twin beds, and THAT worked well until they were old enough to welcome having their own, private bedrooms. Hunter, on the other hand, didn't have a sibling/buddy available (I think the old sayings about having 3 kids must be true...the 3rd one tends to get left out of things sometimes), so he stayed with us a little longer. It didn't seem to hurt him one bit. OR our marriage, for that matter. And in case Giovanna is worried (*grin*) -- no, I'm not prepared to debate the merits of the family bed with one and all, to the detriment of our topic here. But you've made a good point, Pam. For some of us it really IS (or was) 24 hours a day! Whew! That can be a lot. But you know, I wouldn't trade a single thing for all those hours, day or night. Time is the biggest gift we give our children, and they pay us back in spades for it. Just today, my 16-year-old (who is Little Miss On-the-Go, these days) entreated me to get off the blankety-blank computer and spend some time with her. "You don't realize how much I like to be WITH you," she said. Honestly, how many moms hear that? My oldest e-mails me every single day from college...not because she's homesick or dependent, but because we really like each other and want to keep in touch. (She e-mails her sister every day, too!) Anyway, a 7-year-old in the parents' bedroom is no big deal. My guess is that MOST of the world's families share sleeping quarters. I think we lose sight of that, here in America, and assume that what's normal for 20th-century Americans is normal for the whole world. Wrong! Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: I'm supportive! AUTHOR: Lisa in CA DATE: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 11:15 p.m. Response To: True Confessions: Son still sleeping with parents! Author: Pam J. Date: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 10:34 p.m. My question is, how are you going to feel when he decides he wants his own space? Just remember when this does happen, that he doesn't need you less, just in a different way :) You are right about both parents having to be supportive of a family bed. My dh was totally against it, he doesn't even like it when they jump into our bed on Saturday mornings :( ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: I try at least once a month AUTHOR: Lisa in CA DATE: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 11:27 p.m. Response To: How often do you "really" get out alone Author: anne Date: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 5:27 a.m. I'm actually out with a group of moms...does that count? I almost never go anywhere without at least one kid. Even if it's just a quick run to the store, I like to have one of them along...I count this as individual bonding time, is that bad? ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: It is common AUTHOR: AMH DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 4:40 a.m. Response To: Re: I'm supportive! Author: Lisa in CA Date: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 11:15 p.m. I know of others who allow their child in bed with them. My parents and sisters always say how spoiled the child is. Of course I counter act that. All mine shared my bed, and occasionally crawl in during the early hours of the morning. DH did not like it, but has learned to live with it. Mostly now I tend to find them in front of the heater vents. Where will they end up next??? > > My question is, how are you going > to feel when he decides he wants his > own space? Just remember when this does > happen, that he doesn't need you less, > just in a different way :) You are right > about both parents having to be supportive > of a family bed. My dh was totally against > it, he doesn't even like it when they > jump into our bed on Saturday mornings > :( ======================================== MESSAGE: How do you find time for each child? AUTHOR: jbbmom DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 5:07 a.m. Last night my daughter (11) and I walked to the library. It was so nice, since we got a chance to talk, without interruption from the other kids. I realizied I need to do that more often. But how? I have 3 kids (11 and 5yos are homeschooled, 9yo in public school), and it seems like I rarely have enough time for one-on-one time with each one. And we all need that! How do you all do it? ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: True Confessions: Son still sleeping with parents! AUTHOR: Heidi DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 5:17 a.m. Response To: True Confessions: Son still sleeping with parents! Author: Pam J. Date: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 10:34 p.m. My kids have always felt free to come into our bedroom at anytime, and I have 5 boys. Some of them have slept with us for years at a time and some of them didn't. I feel in my heart that it really gives them a sense of comfort. My husband jokes and says, but honey when they reach the age of 16 they need to sleep in their own rooms. And our 16,12, and 10 year old sons do, expect for any occasional bad dream or something when they do come into our room. My 7 year old has just started sleeping in his own room, but ends up with us a few nights still. My 7 month old baby has been with us in bed since birth. (Glad I bought that new crib when I was 5 months pregnant). He woke up one night, and he was sleeping in between my husband and I, and we both woke up too. He turned his head and looked at me, and then at my husband and just smiled and layed his head back down. It was like he felt so safe, it was so neat to watch. They are only young for such a short time. Who cares what everyone else is doing, go with your heart. Heidi > I am bracing myself for some reactions > here, but I just had to 'fess up and > admit this. Talk about parenting 24-hours-a-day! > Yup, even in my sleep! LOL! > Yes, our dear 7 year old son still > sleeps in our room. Though it is on > the floor (next to mom's side of the > bed) and he sleeps like a proverbial > log, so we can practically scream in > the bedroom (unintentional *blush*) > and he NEVER gets up (has always been > a deep sleeper) once he goes down. > This all started when he was a > baby. He is our only child. Of course > we tried to make him sleep in his own > room when he got older, but it was always > an ordeal. My instincts told me to keep > him close and let him be. > Then about two years ago we became > friends with another family, the husband > was a psychiatrist. When I mentioned > our ongoing sleeping arrangement, he > and his wife both nodded. They let one > of their sons sleep (on their bedroom > floor, too) with them until he was nine. > In his view (as a psychiatrist) it was > more important to let the child have > as much bonding and comforting as needed. > But the important thing was that it > had to be okay with BOTH parents! > My husband and I have always been > creative in finding time and privacy > for ourselves. It hasn't always been > easy, but we have managed. Having a > weekly night out alone (with him sleeping > overnight w/ grandparents) helped a > lot. > The reward has been a very happy, > well-adjusted, and loving child, who, > though he is still frightened of the > usual boogie men and such, seems to > be growing up pretty secure in the fact > that he is totally supported and loved. > We do set limits in all other areas, > by the way. > Okay, let me have it, if you feel > like sharing your thoughts and experiences > regarding the "Family Bed"...I've > bared my soul (and my boudoir) to you! > I'll have my hands over my eyes when > I read your responses! :-) > Pam ======================================== MESSAGE: Kristen, you might be surprised... AUTHOR: Jole DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 6:19 a.m. Response To: Interesting Author: Kristen Date: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 6:45 p.m. once they are both home and together for long periods of time (with no outside influence), they might begin to enjoy each others company (you know, any port in a storm). I firmly believe the influence of peers and television greatly affects the way sibs interact. Many peers will make fun of a friend who actually likes their siblings (it isn't cool). The shows on t.v. are even worse. While many of my neighbors think I'm nuts, I do not allow my children to be disrespectful and hateful to each other. My siblings and I fought like cats and dogs and now we barely speak to each other as adults. I don't want that to happen to my children. I would keep positive thoughts that they ARE going to get along instead of having a self-fulfilling prophesy that they won't. Wishing you the best on your hsing journey, Jole ======================================== MESSAGE: Good question, and... AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 6:30 a.m. Response To: How do you find time for each child? Author: jbbmom Date: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 5:07 a.m. I think it's so important to the kids to get that individual time with their parents. Would you believe my older ones (20 & 16) still clamor for it sometimes? I once read an article written on this subject by a woman with 6 children, and she said her M.O. was to take one child with her each Saturday when she ran all of her shopping errands (while her husband or older children stayed home with the rest of the little ones). She just rotated their turns in strict order. True, they always had to wait 6 weeks for their special day with Mom, but who knows? Maybe that made it all the more special! Honestly and truly, though, doesn't it make you feel like you're being pulled in several directions sometimes? I still get a little crazy when I'm trying to figure out how to devote more one-on-one time to each of the kids, my husband, and myself. AND to the family dog, for crying out loud! I mean, where does it stop? Another thing: Ever noticed that it's the squeaky wheel that gets all the grease? Do you ever find yourself paying more attention to one child (or maybe your husband) because that's the one who demands it the most often or the loudest? Meanwhile, there's a "silent sufferer" in the background, just hoping against hope to get a turn with you someday! I think that's pretty common. And sometimes WE'RE the silent sufferer. That's why it's good, I think, to schedule those special times in some way, like the mother of 6 and her one-child Saturdays, just to make sure no one falls through the cracks. And we shouldn't leave ourselves out, either. And it helps to be an opportunist, too, grabbing 15 minutes here and there with just one child -- to do whatever they feel like doing. These little spots of time are like pre-emptive strikes, too, if you know what I mean. Half an hour today could be more productive than 3 hours next week, if a kid's been feeling neglected for a whole week. Those are just a few of my thoughts on the subject. It's tough. Many times, I've wished I could clone myself! And then I think about all the women with twice as many children as I have, and feel totally demoralized! Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Isn't it funny how something so nurturing and normal is viewed as soemthing we have to hide?! AUTHOR: annette DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 7:52 a.m. Response To: True Confessions: Son still sleeping with parents! Author: Pam J. Date: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 10:34 p.m. Our kids have always been welcome in our room too. As a matter of fact dad is out of town for three nights so both girls were in my bed last night with Ian in a sleeping bag on the floor. You won't hear any bashing from me. You are doing a great job with your little guy! > Hi Everyone! > I am bracing myself for some reactions > here, but I just had to 'fess up and > admit this. Talk about parenting 24-hours-a-day! > Yup, even in my sleep! LOL! > Yes, our dear 7 year old son still > sleeps in our room. Though it is on > the floor (next to mom's side of the > bed) and he sleeps like a proverbial > log, so we can practically scream in > the bedroom (unintentional *blush*) > and he NEVER gets up (has always been > a deep sleeper) once he goes down. > This all started when he was a > baby. He is our only child. Of course > we tried to make him sleep in his own > room when he got older, but it was always > an ordeal. My instincts told me to keep > him close and let him be. > Then about two years ago we became > friends with another family, the husband > was a psychiatrist. When I mentioned > our ongoing sleeping arrangement, he > and his wife both nodded. They let one > of their sons sleep (on their bedroom > floor, too) with them until he was nine. > In his view (as a psychiatrist) it was > more important to let the child have > as much bonding and comforting as needed. > But the important thing was that it > had to be okay with BOTH parents! > My husband and I have always been > creative in finding time and privacy > for ourselves. It hasn't always been > easy, but we have managed. Having a > weekly night out alone (with him sleeping > overnight w/ grandparents) helped a > lot. > The reward has been a very happy, > well-adjusted, and loving child, who, > though he is still frightened of the > usual boogie men and such, seems to > be growing up pretty secure in the fact > that he is totally supported and loved. > We do set limits in all other areas, > by the way. > Okay, let me have it, if you feel > like sharing your thoughts and experiences > regarding the "Family Bed"...I've > bared my soul (and my boudoir) to you! > I'll have my hands over my eyes when > I read your responses! :-) > Pam ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Responsible parenting and reponsible children AUTHOR: Susan DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 8:21 a.m. Response To: Re: Responsible parenting and reponsible children Author: psam ordener Date: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 7:23 a.m. Hello! This thread has been so good for me to read. Thank you all for your insights. I agree about the TV/media (fortunately, we have just moved to a neighborhood with no cable available, and can only pick up public TV), and I also agree about the influence of public school peers-- we have always encouraged our boys to play with girls and boys of all ages, but the public school kids are so limited in what ages and coolness levels of kids they'll play with. Sad! And it hurts my kids' feelings when they're not on the "cool enough" list! I am really torn, though, between wanting to move to the middle of nowhere and have a little farm so as to avoid all the unwholesome influences, and staying where we are so the boys can be around other kids somewhat regularly. Somehow I feel like a "mean mother" if I say no to too many activities away from home, but I can see that too much of that sort of thing has a horrible effect on the family! Because of drive distances and times, we get tired, it messes up healthy meal routines and we end up eating junk and feeling bad, and it doesn't leave time to snuggle and read, or play games, etc. How can I explain to the husband and kids so that they will not see me as "mean" but as wanting to strengthen the family? They are still media-influenced, I think; also peer influenced (just by folks we see in everyday life) to have certain expectations, and I think some of these expectations are too much..... I like the idea of a pickup ballgame instead of organized sports, but when everyone else in the world around you is doing the competitive organized thing, how do you do pick up games?! Sorry this got so long. Thank you all for such insightful posts. Susan ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Isn't it funny how something so nurturing and normal is viewed as soemthing we have to hide?! AUTHOR: Susan DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 8:27 a.m. Response To: Isn't it funny how something so nurturing and normal is viewed as soemthing we have to hide?! Author: annette Date: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 7:52 a.m. Great topic! I haven't read all the posts here but am wondering if anyone here has read the current issue of Mothering magazine? They are long time supporters of children sleeping with parents, and this current issue has a big story about worldwide and historical family sleep arrangements. We do not regularly have our children sleep with us, partly beause the older one wets frequently (another topic altogether, which we are dealing with the best we can, with help) and sleeps like a human tornado (I cannot be a good day mom if I don't get my sleep). The younger one still climbs into bed with us when he needs to, and he is a calmer, dry sleeper so we're fine with that. Now that we have a king sized bed, this is much easier--we might have done more family sleeping, esp. when they were younger, if we'd had a larger bed! And, even though they don't sleep with us a lot, we do snuggle in the big bed and read and watch videos. Happy zzzzzzzzzs ======================================== MESSAGE: ReOnce a week ? AUTHOR: Kim DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 8:30 a.m. Response To: Re: It doesn't sound selfish to me at all! Author: Kristen Date: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 7:03 p.m. I go shopping, but usually I take a kid or two along... which is much less than 4 or 5... Sometimes I run out to the library when the kids are asleep... Sometimes I go and get take out when the kids are asleep... Other than than- a meeting once or twice a year... that's it ! I lead a quiet and simple life :-) ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Kristen, you might be surprised... AUTHOR: julieColorado DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 8:47 a.m. Response To: Kristen, you might be surprised... Author: Jole Date: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 6:19 a.m. > DITTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My older boys couldn't wait to 'get into it' when they returned from school each day. Since I started hs 5 years ago we are a much happier and cordial family. They were merely reproducing behaviours they saw at school and/or releasing alot of tension built up throughout the day at school. This is not to say that they don't like to tangle. It's being male I've decided and is not detrimental when noones spirit is being crushed(or bones broken of course). > ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: True Confessions: Us too!! AUTHOR: Anonymous DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 9:01 a.m. Response To: True Confessions: Son still sleeping with parents! Author: Pam J. Date: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 10:34 p.m. Hi Pam, Us too!! Though we have a 6 1/2 yr old daughter who sleeps *in* our bed. Always has. She is an only child and doesn't want to sleep alone. Understandable! Maybe we should get a dog? But, seriously, we've always believed in the importance of a family bed. We just didn't think that it would continue quite this long. Very rarely it bugs me and most of the time I love it. We know that she is safe and warm and no matter how difficult our day may have been it seems to be a real healing time at night. Anonymous ======================================== MESSAGE: Thanks, hope you are right AUTHOR: Kristen DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 9:36 a.m. Response To: Re: Kristen, you might be surprised... Author: julieColorado Date: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 8:47 a.m. Thanks for the encouragement, I hope you are right. It seems they genuinely hate each other. My brother and I were the same way. We are friends now, although we still have little in common. I love my brother dearly now though. I don't allow my kids to treat each other poorly either. If they don't treat each other with respect and dignity, they don't get to play with their friends, watch tv, etc. But, it doesn't seem to be getting us anywhere!! > ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: How often do you "really" get out alone AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 12:49 p.m. Response To: How often do you "really" get out alone Author: anne Date: Tuesday, 2 February 1999, at 5:27 a.m. Anne, when my children were little, the answer to your question was "hardly EVER." I mean, once in a blue, blue moon. If I could do it all over again, I think I'd try to do a little better than that. I remember going alone to a friend's baby shower once and being AMAZED that I was actually in the car by myself. I turned up the radio full-blast and had a wonderful time -- all by myself! It sure didn't happen very often back then. But after the kids got older, getting out for an hour or so, or even a whole afternoon, became much easier and more do-able, so hang in there. And the time comes when they all drive off to their various activities and leave you at home alone, without a car. That's not so bad, either. ;-) Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: I nearly dropped my mouse in my coffee cup! AUTHOR: Pam J. DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 1:24 p.m. Response To: I'm not shocked in the least Author: Cerelle Date: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 11:13 p.m. Hi Cerelle! > Just today, my 16-year-old (who is Little Miss > On-the-Go, these days) entreated me to get off > the blankety-blank computer and spend > some time with her. "You don't > realize how much I like to be WITH you," > she said. Honestly, how many moms hear > that? Cerelle, after logging on this morning, I nearly dropped my mouse in my coffee cup when I read this! My son said these EXACT same words to me just the other day! That he likes being with me so much and that's why he misses me when I am gone! Can we help it if we are such terrific human beings, that they love being with us! :-) > Anyway, a 7-year-old in the parents' > bedroom is no big deal. My guess is > that MOST of the world's families share > sleeping quarters. Absolutely true! Most of the people on this planet HAVE to share what little living space they have. I'm sure if they were to read our musings on the subject, they'd be scratching their heads about our concern, wondering what the fuss was all about. Yup, there are much bigger issues and challenges that we all face in the raising of our children...this one is small potatoes indeed. I always KNEW in my heart that letting our son sleep with us was not only okay, but the best option for his emotional development. I'm sure you'd agree that all parents should follow their own hearts in these matters. P.S. Until recently, my son would always jump into bed with us, first thing in the morning...plant a big kiss and give me a tight hug, with a beaming smile, and a "Good morning! I LOVE YOU, MOM!!" Now that he is maturing, he jumps up and heads for the computer instead. I get my hug and kiss later---when I make his breakfast. So is that progress and signs of maturity? *sigh* They certainly do grow up and need us less and less...or at least, their SPECIFIC needs (for us) change, eh? Pam ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: True Confessions: Son still sleeping with parents! AUTHOR: Kathy in New York DATE: Thursday, 4 February 1999, at 1:48 p.m. Response To: True Confessions: Son still sleeping with parents! Author: Pam J. Date: Wednesday, 3 February 1999, at 10:34 p.m. > Hi Everyone! > I am bracing myself for some reactions > here, but I just had to 'fess up and > admit this. Talk about parenting 24-hours-a-day! > Yup, even in my sleep! LOL! > Yes, our dear 7 year old son still > sleeps in our room. Though it is on > the floor (next to mom's side of the > bed) and he sleeps like a proverbial > log, so we can practically scream in > the bedroom (unintentional *blush*) > and he NEVER gets up (has always been > a deep sleeper) once he goes down. > This all started when he was a > baby. He is our only child. Of course > we tried to make him sleep in his own > room when he got older, but it was always > an ordeal. My instincts told me to keep > him close and let him be. > Then about two years ago we became > friends with another family, the husband > was a psychiatrist. When I mentioned > our ongoing sleeping arrangement, he > and his wife both nodded. They let one > of their sons sleep (on their bedroom > floor, too) with them until he was nine. > In his view (as a psychiatrist) it was > more important to let the child have > as much bonding and comforting as needed. > But the important thing was that it > had to be okay with BOTH parents! > My husband and I have always been > creative in finding time and privacy > for ourselves. It hasn't always been > easy, but we have managed. Having a > weekly night out alone (with him sleeping > overnight w/ grandparents) helped a > lot. > The reward has been a very happy, > well-adjusted, and loving child, who, > though he is still frightened of the > usual boogie men and such, seems to > be growing up pretty secure in the fact > that he is totally supported and loved. > We do set limits in all other areas, > by the way. > Okay, let me have it, if you feel > like sharing your thoughts and experiences > regarding the "Family Bed"...I've > bared my soul (and my boudoir) to you! > I'll have my hands over my eyes when > I read your responses! :-) > Pam Don't worry Pam...we have a "bedside" companion in our room, too. She used to sleep in her room, but since we built a larger home she prefers our room to her new one...go figure! Neither of us mind and she does sleep much better. If it works for you, who not? ========================================Back to the TopBack to the Digest Index