Digests from the KALEIDOSCAPES MONTHLY TOPIC
(HOMESCHOOLING) DISCUSSION BOARD


These are the original digests from Kaleidoscapes' MONTHLY TOPIC discussion boards.
They were hosted by two amazing gals: Giovanna Gomez and Cerelle Woods Simmons.
The boards are no longer available (thus, links to them won't work); you can, however, still
find many of the same wonderful folks who posted on the boards at Network 54.
Finally, there are no banners or pop-up ads throughout these digests.
Hopefully you will consider shopping through our Amazon links occasionally.
(Thanks!)

Back to the Digest Index


              ========================================

     MESSAGE:  WELCOME EVERYONE!
      AUTHOR:  Giovanna
        DATE:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 9:01 a.m.



This is going to be a great topic!

Let me start off by telling you a little story. :-)

When my son was 4 we visited Kennedy Space Center. Back then he did
not have any knowledge of the space program. He was starting to become
interested in "outer space" because hubby took him to see the Star
Wars movies (remember when they were re-released several years ago?).
We went to the exhibits and he enjoyed it but since he didn't know
anything about the space program he didn't fully understand or appreciate
the exhibits. But he was interested so we began to learn. His interest
in outer space grew from learning about planets to wanting to know
about rockets and space exploration. We read books, watched videos
and literally immersed ourselves in the topic.

Fast Forward two years later. We visit Kennedy Space Center again.

Now we go back to the exhibits and he has a full understanding of
what he is seeing. He looks at the different astronaut suits in the
museum and he can tell you what type of mission they are from (Mercury,
Gemini, Apollo, Space Shuttle). He looks at the pictures of the different
astronauts, "Oh look Mom, there is Gus Grissom." He can name every
single Mercury and Gemini and several Apollo astronaut by looking
at the picture. He can tell you which rockets were used for which
missions, and all about the fire in Apollo 1. He is so excited at
what he is looking at because now he can make educated comments about
it and actually *see* things he has been reading about.

On that day I knew just how much "progress" my son had made. It was
exciting for all of us.

Looking forward to reading your posts!

Giovanna

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  the CAT test...
      AUTHOR:  Marie
        DATE:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 10:46 a.m.



My 13 1/2 ds wanted to take the CAT test at the end of his first year
of homeschooling to see how well he had done floundering around.

He is so proud of himself. He tested 12+ in all the subjects. (This
really helped with his grandparents and Uncles).

He is so excited that he has already started on doing things for the
next school year. My darling Hubby is happier now and has started
helping with the learning of new and exciting things.

I know that this CAT is not extremely accurate and I realize that
he can't start college with it. However it sure makes him and everyone
happy.

Marie (worried about doing the high school Homeschool!!)

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Interpreting results of Stanford Test -LONG!
      AUTHOR:  Ann O.
        DATE:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 11:28 a.m.



First of all, let me say that I'm thankful for this topic; what a
great idea! And just in time, too, because I've been wanting to ask
this, so here I go:

Here in VA, since neither my husband nor I have degrees and are not
hsing for religious exemption reasons, our dd must be evaluated every
year. The school board prefers the Stanford (SAT), according to the
local support group. So, I purchased and administered this test to
my 3rd grade dd. The results I got back were SO confusing!

My dd's best subject is math, which she scored (these are grade equivalents,
like the 8th month of the 5th grade=5.8) Concepts of Number: 5.8,
Mathematics Computation: 5.7, and Mathematics Applications: 6.4. That's
OK. That's pretty much what I expected.

But, in Listening Comprehension, she scored PHS (post high school).
Now, before this test was taken, I was seriously considering giving
her extra help in following directions, and listening comprehension.
She never understands and carries out what I tell her! I make her
repeat back to me what I just said, and then she MIGHT get it right.
So, how can she score PHS?

Her lowest score was Word Study Skills: 3.6 (Right on target.)

Now, I guess I should clarify a few things. Yes, I did administer
the test myself, which is probably a no-no, but I had no one else
to do it. I was not in a support group at the time, and my family
is anti-homeschooling. (Lots of ps teachers.) I don't know if this
matters, but we used A Beka last year.

So, my questions are: How do I apply these results to this coming
year? (We're switching to LLATL, but staying with A Beka math.) What
should I do about listening comprehension? As a mother, I thought
I knew my child and thought she needed extra help in this, but the
scores say otherwise.

I told you this was long! : )

TIA! Ann O. in VA


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Interpreting results of Stanford Test -LONG!
      AUTHOR:  Annette
        DATE:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 11:54 a.m.

 Response To:  Interpreting results of Stanford Test -LONG!
      Author:  Ann O.
        Date:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 11:28 a.m.



I know there is someone out there who can probably explain this far
better than I...but I will take a stab at it, if thats ok. In second
grade my son starting getting PHS in reading comp and mechanics. I
thought, "Oh my gosh!! He's brilliant!" Then someone explained to
me that that only means that he accomplished as much in that area
of the test as a PHS student would have accomplished. It certainly
did not mean that he was capable of reading and comprehending at a
PHS level day in and day out. I also think that your dd listening
to you, her mom, and then say a lesson, are two different things.
The test showed that she was able to hear what was read to her and
then translate it back in some form. Listening to mom, someone she
is comfortable with, who is always there, give her instructions, is
totally different. With a test, it is timed, there are certain peramiters
that she must stay within. Hope this helped some...it sounds like
overall she did great. Even her "low score" was still well within
grade level. Good job mom and dd.

> First of all, let me say that I'm
> thankful for this topic; what a great
> idea! And just in time, too, because
> I've been wanting to ask this, so here
> I go:

> Here in VA, since neither my husband
> nor I have degrees and are not hsing
> for religious exemption reasons, our
> dd must be evaluated every year. The
> school board prefers the Stanford (SAT),
> according to the local support group.
> So, I purchased and administered this
> test to my 3rd grade dd. The results
> I got back were SO confusing!

> My dd's best subject is math, which
> she scored (these are grade equivalents,
> like the 8th month of the 5th grade=5.8)
> Concepts of Number: 5.8, Mathematics
> Computation: 5.7, and Mathematics Applications:
> 6.4. That's OK. That's pretty much what
> I expected.

> But, in Listening Comprehension,
> she scored PHS (post high school). Now,
> before this test was taken, I was seriously
> considering giving her extra help in
> following directions, and listening
> comprehension. She never understands
> and carries out what I tell her! I make
> her repeat back to me what I just said,
> and then she MIGHT get it right. So,
> how can she score PHS?

> Her lowest score was Word Study
> Skills: 3.6 (Right on target.)

> Now, I guess I should clarify a
> few things. Yes, I did administer the
> test myself, which is probably a no-no,
> but I had no one else to do it. I was
> not in a support group at the time,
> and my family is anti-homeschooling.
> (Lots of ps teachers.) I don't know
> if this matters, but we used A Beka
> last year.

> So, my questions are: How do I
> apply these results to this coming year?
> (We're switching to LLATL, but staying
> with A Beka math.) What should I do
> about listening comprehension? As a
> mother, I thought I knew my child and
> thought she needed extra help in this,
> but the scores say otherwise.

> I told you this was long! : )

> TIA! Ann O. in VA

>

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Interpreting results of Stanford Test -LONG!
      AUTHOR:  Marla
        DATE:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 12:06 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: Interpreting results of Stanford Test -LONG!
      Author:  Annette
        Date:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 11:54 a.m.



I agree. The only significance the grade level has is that it shows
you that someone in 5th grade 8th month could have scored the same
as your child on those questions. The percentile though, tells you
where she placed nationally. These are the scores that are I look
at. If she is well above the average then you know you are doing a
great job. If in the middle or low then this is an area you might
want to concentrate on. As far as the listening goes, yes, your child
is capable of listening. Does your child do it consistantly? According
to you no. Think about it, if you knew you were taking an important
test, wouldn't you put your best foot forward? Capable and willing
are two different things. Go with your instinct and work on this if
you see it is needed. One test will never answer all of your questions.
Good luck, hope this helped.

> I know there is someone out there
> who can probably explain this far better
> than I...but I will take a stab at it,
> if thats ok. In second grade my son
> starting getting PHS in reading comp
> and mechanics. I thought, "Oh my
> gosh!! He's brilliant!" Then someone
> explained to me that that only means
> that he accomplished as much in that
> area of the test as a PHS student would
> have accomplished. It certainly did
> not mean that he was capable of reading
> and comprehending at a PHS level day
> in and day out. I also think that your
> dd listening to you, her mom, and then
> say a lesson, are two different things.
> The test showed that she was able to
> hear what was read to her and then translate
> it back in some form. Listening to mom,
> someone she is comfortable with, who
> is always there, give her instructions,
> is totally different. With a test, it
> is timed, there are certain peramiters
> that she must stay within. Hope this
> helped some...it sounds like overall
> she did great. Even her "low score"
> was still well within grade level. Good
> job mom and dd.

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  "One test will never answer all of your questions!"
      AUTHOR:  Giovanna
        DATE:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 12:22 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: Interpreting results of Stanford Test -LONG!
      Author:  Marla
        Date:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 12:06 p.m.



> Go with your instinct
> and work on this if you see it is needed.
> One test will never answer all of your
> questions.

Boy is this true!

Let me tell another one of my little stories....

Last year we had to have our son's speech evaluated. As it turned
out he needed some speech therapy to help him overcome some pronounciation
difficulties.

When the evaluation was finished the evaluator told me that my son
had made some errors on one the test. Here is one of them:

The evaluator held up a card which had a drawing of a backyard. The
backyard had a fence, a lawnmover, a swingset and other things typically
found in a backyard. The evaluator asked my son, "What goes around
the yard." He pointed to the lawnmower. That answer was marked wrong.
The right answer was supposed to be THE FENCE.

Was that answer really wrong though? Not really. See, in my son's
world he sees his daddy on a riding lawnmower cutting the grass quite
a lot. Sometimes he gets to ride with his daddy on the lawnmower.
We live on two and a half acres which is not fenced. He was answering
his question based on what is going on in his life.

My son made other "mistakes" similar to the one I described. His score
on that specific test was low as a result of that. Did this test give
an acurate portrayal of my son? NO.

Tests do not give you the whole picture. Let's remember that.

Giovanna


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Choosing An Acheivement Test....
      AUTHOR:  Barbara Page, Co-hostess of the Science Board
        DATE:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 6:44 p.m.



Some of you may not be aware that your child can take a test at a
lower grade level than what is being given to other students of the
same age...here is an example:

Suppose you have a late reader. Some of the acheivement tests at the
younger levels are completely read aloud to the student. So if you
want to give your 'third' grader a first grade test, you can do that.

Barbara Page

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  To test or not to test (standardized)
      AUTHOR:  jp
        DATE:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 6:47 p.m.



What are some other ways some of you have used to measure your progress
(haha! oh - AND your kids' progress) in terms of the goals you set
for the year? In FL, where we live, we may choose, by law, to have
a personal evaluation done by a certified teacher. This is the method
I've been using for four years. But now that I have a middle school
aged student, I am getting nervous about continuing with this method.
I feel like she "should" have standardized testing done, for two reasons.
One, that she become accustomed to taking them and better able to
handle the "pressure" of them (personal evaluation is VERY low-pressure).
And secondly, to give me a better idea of how she "measures up" against
the rest of the nation, in preparation for college (which she will
most likely attend).

What do any of you think? Is it advisable for me to test now, during
middle school years, or do you think that waiting until high school
is ok?


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Achievement tests or Aptitude tests?
      AUTHOR:  jp
        DATE:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 6:50 p.m.



Another question... what do colleges require for admission - achievement
test scores, or aptitude test scores, or will either do? Which tests
do you all use? I've not used a typical public school scope and sequence
in teaching Science and "Social Studies" and am, therefore, reluctant
to have my kids take achievement tests.


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Choosing An Acheivement Test....
      AUTHOR:  jp
        DATE:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 6:57 p.m.

 Response To:  Choosing An Acheivement Test....
      Author:  Barbara Page, Co-hostess of the Science Board
        Date:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 6:44 p.m.



What about taking a test for a grade higher? One of my daughters has
a late birthday (Dec) and is doing work at different grade levels
in different subjects. How do you compensate for this type of discrepancy
with standardized testing? Test at the lower grade, and expect better
than average results for the higher grade subjects? What if your daughter
has always had the impression that she "skipped a grade"? Uh-oh, I'm
in trouble with her now, I guess! :)

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: To test or not to test (standardized)
      AUTHOR:  Giovanna
        DATE:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 10:18 p.m.

 Response To:  To test or not to test (standardized)
      Author:  jp
        Date:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 6:47 p.m.



> In FL, where we live, we may choose,
> by law, to have a personal evaluation
> done by a certified teacher. This is
> the method I've been using for four
> years. But now that I have a middle
> school aged student, I am getting nervous
> about continuing with this method. I
> feel like she "should" have
> standardized testing done, for two reasons.
> One, that she become accustomed to taking
> them and better able to handle the "pressure"
> of them (personal evaluation is VERY
> low-pressure). And secondly, to give
> me a better idea of how she "measures
> up" against the rest of the nation,
> in preparation for college (which she
> will most likely attend).

This decision all depends on what type of college your daughter wants
to attend. There are a lot of colleges that do not rely on test scores
solely for admission. For some colleges an interview is as important
(if not more important) in deciding admission. A portfolio review
can be good "practice" for those college interviews.

Having said that, however, I personally feel that it is important
for teens to take tests... not necessarily to prove competence but
so that they can learn HOW to take tests. Is this necessary in middle
school? I don't know. I don't think so. I think test taking skills
can be learned quickly during the high school years. There are a ton
of SAT guides available to help you with this.

Giovanna

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  PERFECT example, Giovanna! (more...)
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 10:32 p.m.

 Response To:  WELCOME EVERYONE!
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 9:01 a.m.



Oh, how I loved that post, Giovanna. That's a beautiful example, I
think, of one of those golden moments when our children's progress
and growth is suddenly, almost tangibly, breathtakingly EVIDENT. Takes
you by surprise sometimes, doesn't it?

I've been trying to figure out how we measure progress in our family.
After all these years of homeschooling, I think I just about take
progress for granted these days -- which may be good or may be bad.
I'm not really too sure.

I asked my husband, Tomás, what he thought. I explained to him what
our topic is about this month, and told him I couldn't figure out
what to say. Now one of the things I really love about Tomás is that
when I'm totally stumped, he always seems to have "wisdom on tap."
Tonight was no exception.

"Homeschooling is like baking a cake," he said. "Once you get all
the ingredients right, you just put it in the oven and let it bake.
You don't need to go sticking a toothpick in it every 5 minutes to
see how it's doing."

Isn't that great? I LOVE it! And it's so true!

Then, after giving me that wonderful image, he talked about recognizing
progress. I think this is a biggie, because if we're dependent on
test scores to tell us whether or not the kids are learning, we may
miss out on the little things that reveal a lot. Here's more from
Tomás (yes! I took notes!):

"If you've been paying close attention to the kids' interests, you'll
notice when they're unusually excited about something -- you'll see
that they're knowledgeable about their excitement, and excited about
their knowledge. You'll recognize that combination of excitement and
knowledge as another stepping stone they've reached toward their goal.
And because that knowledge was self-obtained, it enables them to have
even more self-respect."

Cerelle (who sometimes feels very lucky to have a partner in this
venture)

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Recognizing Progress
      AUTHOR:  Giovanna
        DATE:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 10:51 p.m.

 Response To:  PERFECT example, Giovanna! (more...)
      Author:  Cerelle
        Date:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 10:32 p.m.



> "If you've been paying close
> attention to the kids' interests, you'll
> notice when they're unusually excited
> about something -- you'll see that they're
> knowledgeable about their excitement,
> and excited about their knowledge. You'll
> recognize that combination of excitement
> and knowledge as another stepping stone
> they've reached toward their goal. And
> because that knowledge was self-obtained,
> it enables them to have even more self-respect."

I saw "progress" today.

Andrew just can't get enough of Star Wars/Episode 1. Tonight we were
watching a PBS show and John Williams was conducting an orchestra.
The orchestra performed the song from Episode 1 and it was more than
Andrew could bear! :-)

When the show was finished it gave the website address for PBS for
anyone who wanted to know more about John Williams. Andrew jumped
out of the sofa and went right into the computer to check it out.
I cannot get over how well Andrew is surfing the web!!! He has found
all sorts of other Episode 1 related sites. And I know he is reading
them all because he tells me ALL about them! ;-)

Then it dawned on me. He has improved tremendously in websearching
abilities from a year ago---even six months ago! And I have Obi-Wan
Kenobi to thank! LOL!

So yes I agree...

He is definitely "knowledgeable about his excitement, and excited
about his knowledge."


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Test Preparation: fact or fiction?
      AUTHOR:  Ariel
        DATE:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 11:28 p.m.

 Response To:  To test or not to test (standardized)
      Author:  jp
        Date:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 6:47 p.m.



> One, that she become accustomed to taking
> them and better able to handle the "pressure"
> of them (personal evaluation is VERY
> low-pressure).

When I left school in the middle of second grade I resigned from test
taking completely. There is no evaluation system for home educators
in Texas (sorry if I'm stating the obvious for anyone) and so test
taking wasn't even an option for most of my school career. In high
school I began preparing for the SAT by learning algebra (a subject
I never would have learned without the SAT looming ahead) and paddling
around in the SAT prep books. I walked into the SAT testing site having
not taken a test in 11 years.

I was pretty relaxed: not because I was so cocky as to think I'd pass
with flying colors, but because I figured that "test taking" was a
hard-learned skill and this would just be a practice-run. I didn't
even have the scores reported to the colleges I was applying to. The
auditorium was packed with nervous teens, most of them looking a bit
peakid and many going over notes. I thought it was sorta funny. The
whole experience was unreal. I sat in a little desk, followed all
the silly rules, and left calm and cool while everyone around me looked
worse than when they came in. Some of them had failed, some of them
probably scored perfect scores, but they all looked miserable.

Four to six weeks later my envelope arrived in the mail with my scores.
Even thought I told myself it was just practice and I'd take it again
I was nervous. But the paper pleasently told me I had scored 610 on
the math (there was an error on the test, and so my score was later
raised, but I never found out to what) and 790 on the verbal. Now,
I know I've taken a large number of words to get to the point, but
I really believe that it was my test _inexperience_ that produced
a respectable score. I think if I'd begun measuring my intellectual
success in numeric form years earlier I wouldn't have been able to
be nearly so at ease.

I doubt I ever will suffer from the test anxiety my friends in college
experience. It's simply a habit I never learned, and I'm awful grateful
for it.

> And secondly, to give
> me a better idea of how she "measures
> up" against the rest of the nation,
> in preparation for college (which she
> will most likely attend).

Oh shucks. Watch her around her friends (subtly) and listen to how
the conversations run. Talk to her. Read those funky "what your child
should know" books. But if you begin to trust numbers more than you
trust your own judgment, she'll do the same. Let her learn to evaluate
her progress herself. Low-pressure isn't the equal of easy. There
is a myth it seems that the more you suffer the more you learn. (John
Holt phrases the argument against very well in How Children Fail).
When you begin to associate learning with stress the enjoyment (and
enthusiasm) starts seeping out. Keep your daughter free of numbers
as long as you can. I'm sure she will set her own standards much higher
than A+.


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Achievement tests or Aptitude tests?
      AUTHOR:  Jean E.
        DATE:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 1:08 a.m.

 Response To:  Achievement tests or Aptitude tests?
      Author:  jp
        Date:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 6:50 p.m.



Given that requirements will vary from one college to another, most
will probably require the ACT or the Scholastic Achievement Test (SAT)-
note that this is NOT the same as the Stanford Achievement Test which
is given to elementary age kids, like CAT and Iowa Basic Skills. The
SAT has a verbal and a math section. The ACT also has a general verbal
and math test, but they did offer test in specific subjects (like
biology, American History) etc. which some colleges used for credit.
Many colleges offer credit to students who place out of courses through
AP exams in specific subjects (Chemistry, Calculus, English, etc.)
There are test preparation materials available from the people who
make the tests, as well as from publishers like Baron's. It is well
worth the effort to familiarize yourself with the testing format and
material covered, esp. for kids that don't have lots of formal testing
experience. You will get better scores if you develop your test taking
skills. I don't think any colleges require aptitude testing.

Jean


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  ideas for demonstrating progress throughout the year
      AUTHOR:  kilbee
        DATE:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 1:12 a.m.



My husband is very conscious of test scores and puts a lot of faith
in them. I don't mind if the kids take tests, but I am experimenting
with other types of schooling--more relaxed, less dependent on textbooks.
For instance, this past year one daughter used an Usborne book after
I tired of the textbook we started with. We liked it more, but my
husband is displeased that there were no tests. I am too busy to prepare
tests as I am teaching six children (and have three preschoolers).
What are some easy ways to demonstrate what was learned?

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Interpreting results of Stanford Test -LONG!
      AUTHOR:  Jean E.
        DATE:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 1:31 a.m.

 Response To:  Interpreting results of Stanford Test -LONG!
      Author:  Ann O.
        Date:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 11:28 a.m.



There was a very good explanation of interpereting test scores on
the LD Online Teaching Reading Board at http://www.ldonline.com a
few weeks ago. Basically, ignore grade equivalents- they just tell
you that your child got the same score that students at grade level
5.8 would be expected to get on that test. They aren't testing your
3rd grader on 5th grade math, and they didn't actually give this test
to 5th graders (much less college students!), so they extrapolate
scores of kids who actually do take the test, wave a magic wand and
come up with grade equivalents. If you can get the standardized scores,
they will be more informative- a standard score of 100 is average,
anything above 100 is above average for that age group, below 100
is below average for that age group. Sounds like she was above average
in all areas, but I'd take your evaluation based on your experience
over test scores any day. If you think she needs to work on listening
skills, do it. Also, you might want to find out about some diagnostic
testing that will help you identify more precisely what listening
skills she needs to work on- there might be some info on the LD Online
site.

Jean


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: ideas for demonstrating progress throughout the
year
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 1:44 a.m.

 Response To:  ideas for demonstrating progress throughout the year
      Author:  kilbee
        Date:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 1:12 a.m.



Portfolios are commonly used in place of test scores to "document"
what has been studied/learned/enjoyed. Typically, a portfolio might
include samples of written work, photos of projects or field trips,
lists of books read, questions asked and explored, souvenirs of one
kind or another . . . you get the idea.

But here's the catch: Generally speaking, a friend or family member
who is accustomed to seeing (and being reassured by) test scores is
going to be more comfortable with fill-in-the-blank formats than those
gorgeous photos you took of the kids mixing up baking soda and vinegar
to make a backyard volcano. They'll want to see evidence that a core
list of vocabulary words has been mastered, for example. To satisfy
them, you can always toss in some crosswords or word-find puzzles
using some of the terms the kids have been running into. If it gives
you more freedom, by all means throw your critics an occasional bone.
(Just my opinion and standard operating procedure.)

Cerelle

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: ideas for demonstrating progress throughout the
year
      AUTHOR:  Lisa Torres
        DATE:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 6:55 a.m.

 Response To:  ideas for demonstrating progress throughout the year
      Author:  kilbee
        Date:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 1:12 a.m.



I teach in a public high school (in my spare time :-)) and I certainly
don't base student's grades (which show their progress) entirely on
tests. Some of the other assessments I do include discussion, lab
reports, other written work, daily homework, projects, etc. With my
homeschooled son, I often test by discussion. I lead the discussion
to the topics I want to be sure he understands, and check these off
on a list if I want to be formal about it. I also have him keep a
portfolio of work. For example, when kids are reading, have them narrate,
and if your husband wants "hard evidence", make a list--it could be
quite generic for fiction reading: child related sequence of events
for the chapter; child recalled three historical facts presented...etc.
For math, I'd once in a while have them do a "cumulative worksheet"
(problems from the last unit) Guess what? this is the same as a test...In
Social Studies and Science, I'd rely on lab/project work to evaluate
their understanding of the material. Fact is, you probably have a
pretty good idea of what they have learned.

> My husband is very conscious of
> test scores and puts a lot of faith
> in them. I don't mind if the kids take
> tests, but I am experimenting with other
> types of schooling--more relaxed, less
> dependent on textbooks. For instance,
> this past year one daughter used an
> Usborne book after I tired of the textbook
> we started with. We liked it more, but
> my husband is displeased that there
> were no tests. I am too busy to prepare
> tests as I am teaching six children
> (and have three preschoolers). What
> are some easy ways to demonstrate what
> was learned?

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: ideas for demonstrating progress throughout the
year
      AUTHOR:  Plan of Action
        DATE:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 9:57 a.m.

 Response To:  ideas for demonstrating progress throughout the year
      Author:  kilbee
        Date:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 1:12 a.m.



I know you are really busy with those wonderful children. Is there
anyway your hubby would be willing to spend an evening with you and
you could both write down what is most important to each of you for
the children's education. It would be laying out your family's educational
philosophy. It might help you to reach an agreement which unattended
may fester and grow. If he would, perhaps you could meet in the middle
with your goals for them. He also might then see just how much you
are doing with them and may be willing to pitch in. Maybe he could
make up a test himself if it means that much to him.

> My husband is very conscious of
> test scores and puts a lot of faith
> in them. I don't mind if the kids take
> tests, but I am experimenting with other
> types of schooling--more relaxed, less
> dependent on textbooks. For instance,
> this past year one daughter used an
> Usborne book after I tired of the textbook
> we started with. We liked it more, but
> my husband is displeased that there
> were no tests. I am too busy to prepare
> tests as I am teaching six children
> (and have three preschoolers). What
> are some easy ways to demonstrate what
> was learned?

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  tests...
      AUTHOR:  Mary
        DATE:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 10:16 a.m.



One of the main reasons why I chose to home educate my children 8
years ago, was because I did not want them to simply memorize the
facts so they would pass the test.

That is what it appears it has come down to these days in our local
schools...who gets the best scores.....they receive funding for that
and then those that don't fit the above category....the children with
labels....the school gets rewarded moneterily for them also.

My children have kept portfolios from day one and love it. They can
go back and check their own progress, have been happy to see their
own improvement. I find the portfolio very empowering and a real life
measuring stick for their progress. They will use these forever.

I also believe it helps them to know how to organize their work and
their lives. It is a continual progression for them.

Who invented the first test anyway? Mine have taken some and have
done fine- but I don't believe they are always an accurate guage for
what a child knows. It takes more time to do a portfolio but once
you start it is a great for the children.

Mary


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: ideas for demonstrating progress throughout the
year
      AUTHOR:  Marla
        DATE:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 11:07 a.m.

 Response To:  Re: ideas for demonstrating progress throughout the
year
      Author:  Plan of Action
        Date:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 9:57 a.m.



I like to do a summary. If we are working on history and have just
finished the Gold Rush, then all I do is type out a few questions
for them to answer. Example: Where was gold first found and what were
two events that occured as a result of this discovery? How did the
Gold Rush change the state of California? What did you learn about
supply and demand? If the child is too young to write, then have him/her
tell you and your husband what happend. This is simple and takes little
time to put together. If they can tell you and give an opinion, then
you've done well.

> I know you are really busy with
> those wonderful children. Is there anyway
> your hubby would be willing to spend
> an evening with you and you could both
> write down what is most important to
> each of you for the children's education.
> It would be laying out your family's
> educational philosophy. It might help
> you to reach an agreement which unattended
> may fester and grow. If he would, perhaps
> you could meet in the middle with your
> goals for them. He also might then see
> just how much you are doing with them
> and may be willing to pitch in. Maybe
> he could make up a test himself if it
> means that much to him.

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: tests...
      AUTHOR:  Laura in Pasadena
        DATE:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 12:48 p.m.

 Response To:  tests...
      Author:  Mary
        Date:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 10:16 a.m.



There was an article in the LA Times last week. It was about 3 schools
who had really improved their SAT-9 scores over the previous year.
Two of the schools were inner city schools. One of them had 100% oif
the kids receiving free lunchs. They both inproved the scores by improving
the communications between teachers, etc, and working on imroving
the environment. Good stuff.

The amazing part of the story was the 3rd school. It was in a middle
class neighborhood, and the previous years scores were average (which
is LA is pretty good). How they improved them was to spend an hour
a day for 5 months teaching the kids how to take tests. By my figuring
that was about 100 hours of instruction!!!

I thought it was a disgusting use of the childrens' time. Pretty scary
really because the article really didnt touch on just how abusive
that really is.

Laura in Pasadena

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Interpreting the CAT Help Please
      AUTHOR:  vicki in nc
        DATE:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 1:12 p.m.



Hello. My daughter took the CAT test in March and overall did well.
However, I did not receive an explanation sheet with my results. Could
someone please explain in layman's terms what the category under spelling
called "structural units" means? She did very well in all areas except
this one and a math section which we had not covered prior to the
test. I need to understand the terminology so I can proceed for net
year. TIA vicki in nc

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Portfolios
      AUTHOR:  Carey
        DATE:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 5:04 p.m.

 Response To:  tests...
      Author:  Mary
        Date:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 10:16 a.m.



> My children have kept portfolios
> from day one and love it. They can go
> back and check their own progress, have
> been happy to see their own improvement.
> I find the portfolio very empowering
> and a real life measuring stick for
> their progress. They will use these
> forever.

We start our second year of homeschooling in a few weeks. I was looking
back through ds's "portfolio" (so far a file folder with the year's
work) and found that he did a great job. I, however, failed to notice
that his handwriting has really suffered while I was focusing on academics.
So, I suppose a portfolio will also show our weaknesses!

Carey

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Aptitude (Scholastic Aptitude Test)
      AUTHOR:  Testy
        DATE:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 9:20 p.m.

 Response To:  Achievement tests or Aptitude tests?
      Author:  jp
        Date:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 6:50 p.m.



They are interested in the student's ability to learn rather than
in achievement which is what they have already learned.


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  "When do you start the actual planning for the next
school year??
      AUTHOR:  Ann ZS
        DATE:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 9:36 p.m.



Last year I started right when
> we finished in June, but this year my
> husband wanted me to take a break. Of
> course, I have ideas going around in
> my head and a bit of planning on paper
> that was done before the end of last
> school year, but nothing complete. I
> guess now is the time to start, huh?
>

> We plan to have the first day of
> school around the 3rd week in Sept.
> Until then, we'll do constructive, practical,
> and educational projects like spakling,
> painting and stenciling a room, or some
> cooking "classes".

> I'd be interested to hear how others
> go about it.

> Peace, Ann ZS

PS. A friend I spoke to tonight sends in her Sept. plans (Letter of
Intent) with her eval. results in June. How's that for planning ahead.
She says she doesn't want to be bothered with it again, and that way
she's set til next June

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Portfolios
      AUTHOR:  Mary
        DATE:  Monday, 2 August 1999, at 7:18 a.m.

 Response To:  Portfolios
      Author:  Carey
        Date:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 5:04 p.m.



Yes, I suppose it could. Then you know where to improve for the next
year. That was what I meant by they could look and see their improvement
over the years.
>

> We start our second year of homeschooling
> in a few weeks. I was looking back through
> ds's "portfolio" (so far a
> file folder with the year's work) and
> found that he did a great job. I, however,
> failed to notice that his handwriting
> has really suffered while I was focusing
> on academics. So, I suppose a portfolio
> will also show our weaknesses!

> Carey

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: tests...
      AUTHOR:  Inge
        DATE:  Monday, 2 August 1999, at 11:44 a.m.

 Response To:  Re: tests...
      Author:  Laura in Pasadena
        Date:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 12:48 p.m.



I recently heard on NPR about a high school in Chicago that need to
pass a high stakes test to keep it's funding. They were spending virtually
all their time practicing for the test. It gave me chills.

>

> There was an article in the LA
> Times last week. It was about 3 schools
> who had really improved their SAT-9
> scores over the previous year. Two of
> the schools were inner city schools.
> One of them had 100% oif the kids receiving
> free lunchs. They both inproved the
> scores by improving the communications
> between teachers, etc, and working on
> imroving the environment. Good stuff.
>

> The amazing part of the story was
> the 3rd school. It was in a middle class
> neighborhood, and the previous years
> scores were average (which is LA is
> pretty good). How they improved them
> was to spend an hour a day for 5 months
> teaching the kids how to take tests.
> By my figuring that was about 100 hours
> of instruction!!!

> I thought it was a disgusting use
> of the childrens' time. Pretty scary
> really because the article really didnt
> touch on just how abusive that really
> is.

> Laura in Pasadena

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  How do you evalutate non-text book reading???
      AUTHOR:  Marie
        DATE:  Monday, 2 August 1999, at 12:48 p.m.



I hope this is where I should post this question.

We are going to use National Geographic for Geography and Social Studies
this year. My ds is 13 1/2. So do I make up a worksheet or what to
prove that he read the articles. So I can show that he actually read
them I am at a loss for what to do. He needs something to show relatives
that are causing some stink. Dad is finally won over. YEA!! Now Dad
actually has some wonderful discussions with DS. How do you evalutate
them??

I am slowly going crazy.

Thanks for all help.

Marie

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Reading logs, notes, discussions, and more...
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Monday, 2 August 1999, at 2:34 p.m.

 Response To:  How do you evalutate non-text book reading???
      Author:  Marie
        Date:  Monday, 2 August 1999, at 12:48 p.m.



I think it's great that you're going to use Nat'l Geog. as your main
text for geography and social studies. Great choice!

I would not worry about proving that your son has read the articles.
Here's why: HE'LL knows he's read them, and YOU'LL know he's read
them...and that ought to be enough for anyone. Let him keep a dated
log of what he reads & when. This will be "diary evidence." If you
like, you can keep track of the articles he's read in your own school
journals. And I repeat, that really should be enough proof for anyone.

On the other hand, there's no reason you couldn't build on some of
those articles to enrich his learning in other subject areas. As a
writing activity, he might feel like taking two articles about similar
topics (or not-so-similar topics) and comparing them in some way.
For example, he might be able to show the advances made in our space
program by comparing a recent article with one published in the '50s.

Maybe he's not interested in doing any formal writing, but you and
he (or he and his dad) have a great conversation along these lines
(comparing two articles, or discussing information he read about in
Nat'l Geog. in a new context. This, too, is "proof" of learning --
make a note of it in your journal, or let him mention it in his own
notes. More diary evidence!

My own personal feeling about worksheets is that they're usually dumb
and something of an insult to a kid's intelligence. You know those
questions on the back page of the Weekly Reader???? Yuck! I always
thought they were horrible. REAL newspapers for grown-ups don't quiz
them on the last page, so why should a child's? (You see, I was always
a little bit radical, even when I was a little kid.)

I can think of lots of different ways you could stretch your mileage
from those articles, though. You could analyze one for structure --
how well did the author hook the reader in the first paragraph? How
effectively did s/he summarize at the end? Was the article so interesting
that it made you want to learn more about the topic, or was it boring?
These aren't worksheet questions (I sincerely hope) -- they're conversation
starters.

Now, how to evaluate those conversations? I wouldn't necessarily evaluate
the conversations as much as use them as more pieces of evidence in
my overall evaluation of my son's increasing interest in geography
and world cultures. Does this make sense?

(Don't you love that new map in this month's Geographic? My 14-year-old
and I were amazed by how many Internet connections the U.S. has compared
to all the other countries! And the other stuff was cool, too.)

Cerelle

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Cerelle... Thanks....
      AUTHOR:  Marie
        DATE:  Monday, 2 August 1999, at 4:00 p.m.

 Response To:  Reading logs, notes, discussions, and more...
      Author:  Cerelle
        Date:  Monday, 2 August 1999, at 2:34 p.m.



Cerelle,

Thank you Thank you!!! I knew that there was a way to do this. I just
couldn't think anymore. I have only been out of the hospital 4 1/2
weeks and it seems like things are already piling up. Hopefully this
will take care of things now.

Take care and Thanks again,

Marie


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Something else occurred to me...
      AUTHOR:  Julie in NM
        DATE:  Monday, 2 August 1999, at 5:07 p.m.

 Response To:  Cerelle... Thanks....
      Author:  Marie
        Date:  Monday, 2 August 1999, at 4:00 p.m.



How about finding a blank world map and pinpointing (with something
that stands out, like red ink or something) all of the places you
read about. If anyone ever asks, you can whip it out and say, "We've
read about all of these places in the National Geographics!" That,
and the log, ought to keep anyone off of your tail, plus after a while
you can see if there's anywhere in the world that you *haven't* read
about...just a thought...

> Cerelle,

> Thank you Thank you!!! I knew that
> there was a way to do this. I just couldn't
> think anymore. I have only been out
> of the hospital 4 1/2 weeks and it seems
> like things are already piling up. Hopefully
> this will take care of things now.

> Take care and Thanks again,

> Marie

>

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: "When do you start the actual planning for the
next school year??
      AUTHOR:  Julie in NM
        DATE:  Monday, 2 August 1999, at 5:24 p.m.

 Response To:  "When do you start the actual planning for the next
school year??
      Author:  Ann ZS
        Date:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 9:36 p.m.



I'm not required to turn anything in (to the state), so I never really
"formalize" many of the things we do--I DO make lists of things we'll
read and in what order, but as to "we'll do this on day 1; this on
day 2" etc., I prefer to be a bit more flexible.

That said, since I make up my own curriculum, I start sometimes a
couple of years in advance for certain subjects (such as history or
literature). I decide on a main "text" or starting point, what supplemental
materials I want to use and which (reading) books we want to go with
that. Then I keep an eye out for used books or sales. Some of these
I either have to read for the first time or reread because it's been
too long and I can't remember details, so I leave time for that. (I've
made this a practice ever since my 7-year-old asked why the girl had
to go to the monthly women's hut and caught me completely off guard.)
Then, some afternoon after I've amassed all of the materials I had
in mind, I spread them all out on the bed and then put them in order,
and write out a list of what we'll do. I try to leave room for something
interesting that presents itself later, and I can also take a good
look and make sure I haven't missed an entire era of supplementary
material or something. After I make the list, I sort of eyeball it
with a pencil--"we ought to be here by Thanksgiving," etc. I do this
whenever I've amassed the material--it could be a year in advance.
Then I put it aside and that's the end of it.

Some subjects--phonics and younger spelling, for example, I actually
write up myself, so that takes quite a bit more time. I usually plan
it out before the school year ends (it's dependent upon what they
are doing at that time and also how they are doing) and actually try
to get it started during "school", then finish it during a break.
I may not finish the whole thing, but I do enough to get us to the
next break. Sometimes, I find that's better, because what worked for
one child doesn't work for another, so I change the technique slightly
to make it work. That way, I haven't wasted my time making up something
for a whole year that I end up having to change after 6 weeks or so.

> Last year I started right when
>

> PS. A friend I spoke to tonight
> sends in her Sept. plans (Letter of
> Intent) with her eval. results in June.
> How's that for planning ahead. She says
> she doesn't want to be bothered with
> it again, and that way she's set til
> next June

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Interpreting results of Stanford Test -LONG!
      AUTHOR:  SandraKH
        DATE:  Monday, 2 August 1999, at 10:36 p.m.

 Response To:  Interpreting results of Stanford Test -LONG!
      Author:  Ann O.
        Date:  Saturday, 31 July 1999, at 11:28 a.m.



Ann,

Where in VA are you? Next year I can test for you, if you want. You're
right--you're not supposed to administer the Stanford without a college
degree. If you get the test through BJU, you have to be an authorized
tester (I am). The IOWA also requires a college degree, but you can
administer it to your child yourself. With the SAT, if you give it
to your child, you have to also have at least 2 other children taking
the same test (you can test certain grades together) with them.

Have you thought of the portfolio option instead of testing? YOu have
to submit samples of their work in Language Arts and Math only.

Sandi in Richmond

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: ideas for demonstrating progress throughout the
year
      AUTHOR:  SandraKH
        DATE:  Monday, 2 August 1999, at 10:43 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: ideas for demonstrating progress throughout the
year
      Author:  Cerelle
        Date:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 1:44 a.m.



But here's the catch: Generally
> speaking, a friend or family member
> who is accustomed to seeing (and being
> reassured by) test scores is going to
> be more comfortable with fill-in-the-blank
> formats than those gorgeous photos you
> took of the kids mixing up baking soda
> and vinegar to make a backyard volcano.
> They'll want to see evidence that a
> core list of vocabulary words has been
> mastered, for example. To satisfy them,
> you can always toss in some crosswords
> or word-find puzzles using some of the
> terms the kids have been running into.
> If it gives you more freedom, by all
> means throw your critics an occasional
> bone. (Just my opinion and standard
> operating procedure.)

Why would you need to satisfy friends and family members this way?
Who cares what they want?

Sandi

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Sorry, Cerelle,
      AUTHOR:  SandraKH
        DATE:  Monday, 2 August 1999, at 10:47 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: ideas for demonstrating progress throughout the
year
      Author:  Cerelle
        Date:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 1:44 a.m.



I didn't mean to sound so blunt. If it's your dh wanting this stuff,
that's one thing; I was referring to friends and extended family members
to whom you have no responsibility to hs the way THEY think you should!

Sandi


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  I'll clarify, too! :-)
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Monday, 2 August 1999, at 11:24 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: Sorry, Cerelle,
      Author:  SandraKH
        Date:  Monday, 2 August 1999, at 10:47 p.m.



Oh, Sandi, I do agree that no homeschooling parent should have to
cramp her style in order to mollify her neighbor's 2nd cousin's brother-in-law!
LOL!

But yes, when it's a spouse or even an in-law (if that in-law lives
nearby and is in close contact with the homeschooling family), I think
the better part of valor *sometimes* is to do a little something here
or there to reassure that person.

I would NOT do something I truly didn't believe in, nor would I do
something that made my life 10 times harder, just to appease a critic.
But if I have computer software that can spit out a crossword puzzle
based on 20 vocabulary words of my own choosing, AND if the kids enjoy
working crossword puzzles, AND if this will keep some close family
member feeling happy and relaxed about our homeschooling program,
then you betcha I'll do it! In a New York minute! :-)

Cerelle

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  !!!!
      AUTHOR:  Ann O.
        DATE:  Tuesday, 3 August 1999, at 6:38 a.m.

 Response To:  Re: Interpreting results of Stanford Test -LONG!
      Author:  SandraKH
        Date:  Monday, 2 August 1999, at 10:36 p.m.



Sandi,

I'm in the Hampton Roads area, but thank you for the offer.

Ss, what happens now? I sent the results into the school superintendent.
Will they question whether or not I administered it? How will this
affect my educating at home? Can you tell I'm nervous?

I'm not exactly sure how to do the portfolio assessment, either. Who
do I contact? Are workbooks OK to show, since I'll be using A beka
for math and LLATL for LA?

I'm not sure, but maybe next year I'll be able to have someone in
a support group test her. This last year I wasn't involved in one,
but I will be this fall.

Thank you! Ann O.


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: "When do you start the actual planning for the
next school year??
      AUTHOR:  Mary in NY
        DATE:  Tuesday, 3 August 1999, at 7:45 a.m.

 Response To:  "When do you start the actual planning for the next
school year??
      Author:  Ann ZS
        Date:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 9:36 p.m.



Here in New York state our letter of intent to home educate must be
received by the school district before July 1st. (unless the child
is being removed from school during the school year already in session---then
I believe one has two weeks to notify the district) Our IHIP (Indiviual
Home Instruction Plan---or something like that!) has to be received
by the district by August 15th. There is where the specfic subjects
or topics to be taught and resources to be used are listed. There
is where the planning really has to come in. Speaking of this, I need
to finish mine and send them in!! :-) Oh how I long for less regulations!!!!!!

> Last year I started right when
>

> PS. A friend I spoke to tonight
> sends in her Sept. plans (Letter of
> Intent) with her eval. results in June.
> How's that for planning ahead. She says
> she doesn't want to be bothered with
> it again, and that way she's set til
> next June

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Interpreting the CAT Help Please
      AUTHOR:  vicki in nc
        DATE:  Tuesday, 3 August 1999, at 8:39 a.m.

 Response To:  Interpreting the CAT Help Please
      Author:  vicki in nc
        Date:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 1:12 p.m.



Terminology please, does anybody know what "strucural units" under
the spelling section on the CAT means?? thanks in adavance, vicki
in nc

> Hello. My daughter took the CAT
> test in March and overall did well.
> However, I did not receive an explanation
> sheet with my results. Could someone
> please explain in layman's terms what
> the category under spelling called "structural
> units" means? She did very well
> in all areas except this one and a math
> section which we had not covered prior
> to the test. I need to understand the
> terminology so I can proceed for net
> year. TIA vicki in nc

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: ideas for demonstrating progress throughout the
year
      AUTHOR:  Wendy
        DATE:  Tuesday, 3 August 1999, at 9:49 a.m.

 Response To:  ideas for demonstrating progress throughout the year
      Author:  kilbee
        Date:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 1:12 a.m.



A couple ideas....

I have been using Homeschool Easy Records to keep track of time spent
on each subject. Every couple of weeks I print off a progress report,
my dh can see that we spent x hours on science, x hours on history,
etc.

The kids make notebooks of special interests which they share with
anyone who will look at it, especially Dad. Of course, any workbooks
they complete---like math---- they share with their dad as well.

I also encourage them to share something they learned each day with
their dad at dinner. As they talk and talk and talk;-), it becomes
real obvious that they know the information.

Wendy

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Something else occurred to me...
      AUTHOR:  Marie
        DATE:  Tuesday, 3 August 1999, at 12:29 p.m.

 Response To:  Something else occurred to me...
      Author:  Julie in NM
        Date:  Monday, 2 August 1999, at 5:07 p.m.



WOW, OH WOW!! That is an excellent IDEA. I am doing that and the other
suggestions and I just found a great site. I am inspired to get busy.
Wish my Darling Son was inspired. Just a lazy week. LOL 8-0

Now I just need to find a world map. Have to send hubby to get that
at the map store. I am sure he can find one. Can I down load one off
the internet.?

Thanks again.

I am off map hunting. LOL

Marie (wiping the sweat off her brow and running off)

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Here's one of the many map sites...
      AUTHOR:  Ann ZS
        DATE:  Tuesday, 3 August 1999, at 3:44 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: Something else occurred to me...
      Author:  Marie
        Date:  Tuesday, 3 August 1999, at 12:29 p.m.



http://www.nationalgeographic.com/resources/ngo/education/xpeditions/main.html

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Standardized test for 1st grader?
      AUTHOR:  Carolyn
        DATE:  Tuesday, 3 August 1999, at 7:11 p.m.



Hi. I have been lurking. We are about to begin our first year of hsing.
Our Superintendent requires yearly standardized testing of our choice,
even for a first grader! (the public schooled 1st graders don't do
the test) Does anyone know of a developmentally appropriate standardized
test (I know, oxymoron) for a 6yr, nine month old? I would appreciate
any info! Carolyn in MA

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re:Scholastic Aptitude Test
      AUTHOR:  Jean E.
        DATE:  Tuesday, 3 August 1999, at 8:24 p.m.

 Response To:  Aptitude (Scholastic Aptitude Test)
      Author:  Testy
        Date:  Sunday, 1 August 1999, at 9:20 p.m.



Thanks for reminding me of the correct name for the SAT! I've taken
so many of these college and grad school admission tests over the
years that they all blur together.

Jean

> They are interested in the student's
> ability to learn rather than in achievement
> which is what they have already learned.
>

>

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Standardized test for 1st grader?
      AUTHOR:  Jean E.
        DATE:  Tuesday, 3 August 1999, at 8:32 p.m.

 Response To:  Standardized test for 1st grader?
      Author:  Carolyn
        Date:  Tuesday, 3 August 1999, at 7:11 p.m.



I just got a flyer from the L.A.M.B. Company, and one of the things
in it is a "Diagnostic Prescriptive Assessment" for students in grades
k-5. It was developed by a homeschooling mom, Jill J. Dixon, M. Ed.
and can be administered by parents. I don't know if this will meet
the Superitendent's requirement, but if you want more info, you can
go to their web site at http://www.lambco.com

Jean

> Hi. I have been lurking. We are
> about to begin our first year of hsing.
> Our Superintendent requires yearly standardized
> testing of our choice, even for a first
> grader! (the public schooled 1st graders
> don't do the test) Does anyone know
> of a developmentally appropriate standardized
> test (I know, oxymoron) for a 6yr, nine
> month old? I would appreciate any info!
> Carolyn in MA

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Non-academic...non-traditional evaluation!
      AUTHOR:  Robin
        DATE:  Tuesday, 3 August 1999, at 8:35 p.m.



My husband and I are starting our 4th year homeschooling and wrote
down our goals for our homeschool after the 1st year. We were pleasantly
surprised to be like-minded in what we wanted to accomplish with our
3 boys! After I suffered from burnout our first year, I heard this
was a good way to keep on track. It has helped us immensely! Strangely,
both my goals, and my husband's were mostly non-academic in nature.
Like....To know they are of great value, uniquely created by God and
treated with love and respect by us and siblings...to be nourished
and encouraged to pursue and excel in their God-given gifts, interests
and abilities.....to live in a morally responsible way with a Godly
character and lifestyle....to have a love for others, and be able
to serve others.. to develop positive learning habits and find the
joy of learning.... to have the best learning conditions......to be
able to find & use the tools necessary to lead a wholesome, joy-filled,
& God-honoring life. Anyway, our evaluation of these goals comes in
non-traditional ways, as well. We meet with our children individually
to see how they think they are doing. Also, we get oral feedback from
appropriate adults....Coach....Sunday School Teachers.....parents
of friends. I am happy to report that this year my 9-year-old son
won the highest honor in his 100 member gym - "Gymnast of the Year."
The coach stated, "It was not his superior athletic ability which
led to this honor, although he is easily one of the hardest workers
in the gym, but, rather, his consistent good attitude during workouts
and his compassion and encouragement for his fellow teamates which
stands out among his peers."

I will add that although we do comply with our state's testing requirements,
we do not let them hold much weight. We do put in a full day's academics.
But I believe our lifestyle to be a far greater teacher. I want to
encourage the rest of you that character is far more important!

Robin in Washington


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Here's one of the many map sites...
      AUTHOR:  Marie
        DATE:  Wednesday, 4 August 1999, at 10:48 a.m.

 Response To:  Here's one of the many map sites...
      Author:  Ann ZS
        Date:  Tuesday, 3 August 1999, at 3:44 p.m.



Thanks, I use the National Geographic site all the time. Sometimes
the obvious is right under or noses and I always seems to miss it!
Thanks.

Marie

> http://www.nationalgeographic.com/resources/ngo/education/xpeditions/main.html
>

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Demystifying Planning and Goal Setting
      AUTHOR:  Giovanna
        DATE:  Thursday, 5 August 1999, at 9:38 a.m.



I've never done any "planning" aside from just making a mental note
of resources I want to buy. Actually planning gives me the "hibbie
jibbies." I don't know why. I think it's because the few times I've
actually planned something and didn't carry it out completely I felt
horribly guilty. So I figured the way to avoid that horribly feeling
is to just not do any planning at all. :-)

It has worked out very well for us... not planning that is. We lead
a interest led lifestyle of learning anyhow so whatever is the interest
of the day that what we dive into.

BUT...

this year I do have PLANS! Not clearly laid out, not anything fancy
but I do have a mental plan of things we are going to be learning
about.

Tell us how you go about making plans? Do you write everything out
including daily lesson plans? Do you just write a check list? Do you
scribble stuff on scrap paper? Or are you like me---plan phobic!

Giovanna


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Demystifying Planning and Goal Setting
      AUTHOR:  Marie
        DATE:  Thursday, 5 August 1999, at 11:46 a.m.

 Response To:  Demystifying Planning and Goal Setting
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Thursday, 5 August 1999, at 9:38 a.m.



I am like you plan phobia. We discuss what needs to be done for the
year together and then go from there. Some days are spur of the moment.
Somedays I scribble things down on scrap paper for the next day. Some
days are lost in the shuffle. Lots of days my son decides for himself.
LOL He does better than I do. Eventually we get everything done that
he needs and wants to do.

This year I have a better Idea of what we are doing. Finding things
for a beginning High Schooler is hard, but I think we finally found
a plan of action.

After being a PS teacher you would think I would have a better plan.
But this works for us. I guess to each his own.

Marie

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Maps
      AUTHOR:  denise
        DATE:  Thursday, 5 August 1999, at 12:28 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: Here's one of the many map sites...
      Author:  Marie
        Date:  Wednesday, 4 August 1999, at 10:48 a.m.



Hi Marie!

I just bought three very nice write-on/wipe-off maps at Sam's Club
recently. A world map, US map and a map of the solar system were included
for the amazing price of $8.99 for the set. The world and US map are
large, wall-sized maps. If you don't have a Sam's nearby or don't
have a membership, I would be more than happy to pick them up for
you and mail them to you if you are interested.

Denise

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Demystifying Planning and Goal Setting
      AUTHOR:  denise
        DATE:  Thursday, 5 August 1999, at 12:38 p.m.

 Response To:  Demystifying Planning and Goal Setting
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Thursday, 5 August 1999, at 9:38 a.m.



I was hoping someone could help ME demystify this whole process.

We are about to begin our second year of HS and my initial goal was
to improve my children's IOWA test scores over the course of a year.
Having accomplished and exceed that goal, I am almost over my feelings
of insecurity about my ability to home educate my children. However,
I don't know where to go from here! We went the school-at-home route
at first and then became gradually more relaxed as the year progressed.

What we did last year "worked" and my children are happy with their
progress but where do we go from here?

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Maps
      AUTHOR:  Marie
        DATE:  Thursday, 5 August 1999, at 1:25 p.m.

 Response To:  Maps
      Author:  denise
        Date:  Thursday, 5 August 1999, at 12:28 p.m.



Thanks, I have one just down the road from us. But thank you for the
offer. I actually downloaded maps from National Geographic site. They
print out nice and he can carry them around with him. He likes to
keep all his school stuff close so he can read inbetween his dance
classes.

LOL

Marie

>

> Hi Marie!

> I just bought three very nice write-on/wipe-off
> maps at Sam's Club recently. A world
> map, US map and a map of the solar system
> were included for the amazing price
> of $8.99 for the set. The world and
> US map are large, wall-sized maps. If
> you don't have a Sam's nearby or don't
> have a membership, I would be more than
> happy to pick them up for you and mail
> them to you if you are interested.

> Denise

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Sounds like a good plan to me! (nt)
      AUTHOR:  denise
        DATE:  Thursday, 5 August 1999, at 1:51 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: Maps
      Author:  Marie
        Date:  Thursday, 5 August 1999, at 1:25 p.m.



nt


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Demystifying Planning and Goal Setting
      AUTHOR:  Emi
        DATE:  Thursday, 5 August 1999, at 2:58 p.m.

 Response To:  Demystifying Planning and Goal Setting
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Thursday, 5 August 1999, at 9:38 a.m.



When I read the title to this message, I said to myself "great!, there
is the help I need" :). I'm not very good at planning and carrying
my plans through. However, every year, we send to our school distric
the goals that are expected to be completed during the school year
and the materials to be used. This has been good, because I send them
a copy of Living is Learing Curriculum Guide, which is a scope and
sequence developed by the Unschoolers Network in NJ. I use this list
throughout the year for our readings, projects, and units. We are
homeschoolers with Charlotte Mason tendencies :), so we try to meet
these goals in a relaxed way by reading lots of books and a few hands
on activities. We use Miquon (love that loop, Giovanna!), so there
is no much planning to do for math. This year, we are going to be
using Writing Strands and maybe LLATL. So we need to plan only for
Science, Arts, Social Studies and anything else we feel have interest
on.

I'm looking forward to reading all the great suggestions on how to
plan ans set goals :)

Emi

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Demystifying Planning and Goal Setting
      AUTHOR:  Giovanna
        DATE:  Thursday, 5 August 1999, at 6:56 p.m.

 Response To:  Demystifying Planning and Goal Setting
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Thursday, 5 August 1999, at 9:38 a.m.



Well, I was hoping for some experts to jump right on in and tell us
all about proper goal setting and planning. Maybe someone will jump
in here soon! LOL!

Let me share with you a couple of things I HAVE learned about planning
and goal setting.

First of all, look at goal setting as not just a road map of where
you want to go but also a road map that helps you avoid detours. In
other words, goal setting helps stay on track and prevents you from
going where you don't want to go...not just where you want to go.

Example: I know a mom who spent almost all of last year avoiding academic
things. She decided that she was going to devote her time on character
training and discipline issues. She also decided that she wanted her
children to develop interests and didn't want workbooks and textbooks
and a curriculum to get in the way. Admirable! You should see her
children now! NEAT KIDS! What an incredible year this has been for
them. They went on trips, talked, read books, pursued interests, turned
off the tv (actually, they hid it in the attic), listened to good
music. I'm sure there were many days along the way where she second
guessed what she was doing but her goal kept her focused. I'm sure
she had doubts like, "Will they get 'behind'?" Her goal reminded her
of her mission for that year. She didn't take a detour and she stayed
on course.

Another thing I've learned about planning is that it has to be FLEXIBLE.

Example: When I first started to homeschool (and I didn't know anything)
I purchased a program that was sure to teach my son everything he
needed to know in preschool. HA! I laugh when I think about it now
but back then I was pretty serious about all of this business. Anyhow,
the lesson plan said that we were supposed to learn about mammals.
I got some books from the library and to my dismay my son yawned and
fell asleep as I read them. Watching him fall asleep as I read made
me realize two things. First of all that he was still just a four
year old baby and needed a nap! :-) But most importantly it helped
me realize that no matter what the experts say my child(and your child)needs
to learn he is a unique human being unlike none other. Was there something
wrong with him because learning about animals did not appeal to him?
NO! Was I going to force the issue at the tender age of 4 1/2 years
of age? NO!

So we altered the PLAN! We became very flexible. Actually, we tossed
out the whole thing! Instead we learned about what really appealed
to him. After all, what does a 4 1/2 year REALLY need to know? Well,
everything but he has a lifetime to learn it!!! Nothing is absolutely
crucial at 4 1/2 years of age except to realize that learning and
reading real books can be a lot of fun.


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Demystifying Planning and Goal Setting
      AUTHOR:  Giovanna
        DATE:  Thursday, 5 August 1999, at 7:12 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: Demystifying Planning and Goal Setting
      Author:  denise
        Date:  Thursday, 5 August 1999, at 12:38 p.m.



> What we did last year "worked"
> and my children are happy with their
> progress but where do we go from here?
>

Where do you want to go from here? Where do the children want to go?
I guess that's the first question you ask yourself when you get down
to the nitty gritty of goal setting and planning.

Is there any particular thing that your children enjoyed learning
about that they might want to delve into further? What are their interests?

One year we decided to do an in depth study of ancient Egypt (as in
depth as a 6 year old could handle) because we had read a book the
year before that talked about mummies which he found totally fascinating.

Anything in particular that stands out from this year?

Giovanna

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Living is Learning Curriculum Guide (using Scope and
Sequence Chart for goal setting)
      AUTHOR:  Giovanna
        DATE:  Thursday, 5 August 1999, at 7:34 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: Demystifying Planning and Goal Setting
      Author:  Emi
        Date:  Thursday, 5 August 1999, at 2:58 p.m.



> This has been good, because
> I send them a copy of Living is Learing
> Curriculum Guide, which is a scope and
> sequence developed by the Unschoolers
> Network in NJ.

Emi, you must tell us how we can get a copy of this! Can anyone outside
of New Jersey have this?

> I use this list throughout
> the year for our readings, projects,
> and units.

Well I think using a chart like what you described is a great way
to brainstorm for ideas as long as we stay flexible and take into
account our children's interests (which sounds like you do). In Florida
we are not required to submit anything except a letter of intent to
homeschool and portfolio of samples of work at the end of the year
(unless you decide to go for an annual standardized test).

Things seem to naturally flow from one thing to the next around here
without much thought. By the end of the year the list of books we've
read and things we have learned is quite impressive. (I say that because
*I* get shocked!) Like I said in my previous post this is the first
year in the three years I've been "officially" homeschooling that
I have a semi structured plan of things we will be learning about.
By "semi structured" I mean I am actually going to follow a lesson
plan...not all the way, I'm somewhat of a rebel and I like to change
things to make them how I see fit. :-)

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Living is Learning Curriculum Guide (using Scope
and Sequence Chart for goal setting)
      AUTHOR:  Emi
        DATE:  Thursday, 5 August 1999, at 8:08 p.m.

 Response To:  Living is Learning Curriculum Guide (using Scope and
Sequence Chart for goal setting)
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Thursday, 5 August 1999, at 7:34 p.m.



> Emi, you must tell us how we can
> get a copy of this! Can anyone outside
> of New Jersey have this?

Giovanna, anyone can purchase this curriculum guide. If I remember
correctly, it was about $15 + s$h? for a guide the covers 2 years
(with the exeption of the Level 1 which cover preK, K and 1st grade).

For more information, contact

Nancy Plent Unschoolers Network 2 Smith Street Farmingdale, NJ 07727

I like this guide because it has given me ideas I hadn't thought about.
Like any scope and sequence, it's to be used as a guide. There are
some areas that we have already cover and other that I believe it
would be better to wait a year or so before introducing the topic
to my children.

Emi

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Demystifying Planning and Goal Setting
      AUTHOR:  Susan K in Nevada
        DATE:  Thursday, 5 August 1999, at 11:47 p.m.

 Response To:  Demystifying Planning and Goal Setting
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Thursday, 5 August 1999, at 9:38 a.m.



> Or are you like me---plan
> phobic!

> Giovanna - I'm 180 degrees different. Must be my business school
background, but I live to plan! Last year was our first year to homeschool
and I planned each day (to the hour). The only thing I failed to consider
was that my 12 yod had not bought into MY Plan. This year I have to
state our educational goals and the curriculum we will by using. I
am using several Scope and Sequence documents for 7th and 8th grades
and have purchased most of what we will be using initially. However,
on a day to day basis I plan to go with the flow. We are going to
swim, take music lessons, go ice-skating and to museums, and find
a way to serve our community. I have not idea what each day will look
like, but I am confident that I can periodically look at our stated
goals and see if we are on track. Great topic, BTW. Susan K in Nevada
>

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  A story about how my own ego once got in my way (OK,
maybe twice or more!)
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Friday, 6 August 1999, at 2:50 a.m.

 Response To:  Demystifying Planning and Goal Setting
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Thursday, 5 August 1999, at 9:38 a.m.



I love the way everyone was hoping you were going to divulge all the
SECRETS behind demystifying planning here. LOL! I think we'd all like
to see that road ahead clearly at all times, but what are the chances?

> I think it's because
> the few times I've actually planned
> something and didn't carry it out completely
> I felt horribly guilty.

What about when you plan something and it just doesn't turn out to
AT ALL like you thought it would be, in spite of your best-laid plans?
This has happened to me more than once. In that case, I thing the
wisest, bravest thing to do is ditch those plans and start over --
but that can be hard to do. It's like admitting we goofed. Sometimes
I've been tempted to cling to my dumb old not-working-out plans ever
more tightly, as if it would do me any good to go down with a sinking
ship! Ha!

One year I got real ambitious, but it was MOSTLY because I was feeling
competitive with another homeschooling mom I had recently met who
was super, super organized and always planned everything out to the
very last hiccup, if you know what I mean. I began to worry that I
had been too relaxed for too long, and I set out to prove to myself
that I could be just as organized as anybody out there -- which, of
course, was true. I CAN be very organized. The question, though, came
down to this: Did I really WANT to be that organized?

It was a really cool curriculum I put together, no doubt about it.
We worked really hard, and it all looked great on paper. And I guess
I don't regret it. But after a couple of months, we all decided we'd
had ENOUGH of that, thank you very much! The main problem, of course,
was that it was much too ambitious. The whole thing had its roots
in competition, so instead of addressing my children's educational
needs, what it REALLY addressed was my need to feel superior. Can
you see what a terrible idea this is? How doomed to failure? I was
a nervous wreck, trying to live up to this crazy standard I had set
for myself.

Well, that's my little cautionary tale for today. When setting goals,
pay close attention to what's really in your heart. When I'm planning
for the sake of my children's best interests and not my own ego, I'm
always better off! (And so are they, of course...)

Cerelle

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Amen!
      AUTHOR:  Julie in NM
        DATE:  Friday, 6 August 1999, at 10:25 a.m.

 Response To:  A story about how my own ego once got in my way (OK,
maybe twice or more!)
      Author:  Cerelle
        Date:  Friday, 6 August 1999, at 2:50 a.m.



When we first started homeschooling, we had to work under a supervising
teacher. It was horrible! We were required to turn in (first once
a week, then once a month) whatever we'd done. Then she wanted to
see our plans for the coming period. I did these lovely plans, but
we always got interested in something (hopefully on topic) and then
she'd chew me out in front of the kids that we'd done too much! It
always seemed to amaze poor (naive) me that she didn't see what we'd
done as a success (and it is, isn't it? I mean, the *children* were
so interested that they wanted more information!) but as a failure,
because we didn't follow the plans we'd made!

We moved out of state, and were on our own at last! Such freedom!
At first, I followed the lead I was taught, but each year my plans
became more and more loose. It seemed that I was doing a lot of work
(planning day-by-day, then week-by-week, then month-by-month, etc.)
and we never seemed to follow the plans exactly anyway. I've finally
settled on year-by-year, with a rough eye-ball on where we are in
each particular year. I plan the entire "course" and then put little
penciled in lines where I think we might be, say, by Christmas--leaving
an extra week or two open, so that if we're not quite there, we have
those weeks, and if we ARE there, we get the weeks off. (The kids
discovered my method and it's great incentive for them.) This seems
to work for us.

It's interesting, though, that the supervising teacher never said
a word to me about setting goals. It was just about covering material
for her, I guess. Check marks next to the activity for the day? About
two years ago, I realized that one child excelled at *this* but wasn't
where I wanted him to be on *that*--and the same for the other two.
Therefore, at the end of each "year", I set aside a bit of time to
really think about these things, and then I write down particular
things I'd like to keep an eye on for the coming year, and try to
gently steer that child toward paying extra attention to that, or
try to offer something that might remediate the problem. For instance,
I decided that my 11-year-old, while good at spelling "tests", wasn't
doing too well on the spelling end of his writing. I therefore designed
a few extra exercises that focus his attention on the spelling, and
remind him to go over the spelling before he does a final draft. At
the next "year end", I look over what I'd written the previous year
to see how we've done.

I try to keep these things informal and flexible, because it seems
like my kids change so much during even one year. The light bulb goes
on, and something that previously wasn't important now becomes *the*
subject upon which all concentration is showered. I'm VERY lucky that
I don't have to turn anything in to "officials".

> I love the way everyone was hoping
> you were going to divulge all the SECRETS
> behind demystifying planning here. LOL!
> I think we'd all like to see that road
> ahead clearly at all times, but what
> are the chances?

> What about when you plan something
> and it just doesn't turn out to AT ALL
> like you thought it would be, in spite
> of your best-laid plans? This has happened
> to me more than once. In that case,
> I thing the wisest, bravest thing to
> do is ditch those plans and start over
> -- but that can be hard to do. It's
> like admitting we goofed. Sometimes
> I've been tempted to cling to my dumb
> old not-working-out plans ever more
> tightly, as if it would do me any good
> to go down with a sinking ship! Ha!
>

> One year I got real ambitious,
> but it was MOSTLY because I was feeling
> competitive with another homeschooling
> mom I had recently met who was super,
> super organized and always planned everything
> out to the very last hiccup, if you
> know what I mean. I began to worry that
> I had been too relaxed for too long,
> and I set out to prove to myself that
> I could be just as organized as anybody
> out there -- which, of course, was true.
> I CAN be very organized. The question,
> though, came down to this: Did I really
> WANT to be that organized?

> It was a really cool curriculum
> I put together, no doubt about it. We
> worked really hard, and it all looked
> great on paper. And I guess I don't
> regret it. But after a couple of months,
> we all decided we'd had ENOUGH of that,
> thank you very much! The main problem,
> of course, was that it was much too
> ambitious. The whole thing had its roots
> in competition, so instead of addressing
> my children's educational needs, what
> it REALLY addressed was my need to feel
> superior. Can you see what a terrible
> idea this is? How doomed to failure?
> I was a nervous wreck, trying to live
> up to this crazy standard I had set
> for myself.

> Well, that's my little cautionary
> tale for today. When setting goals,
> pay close attention to what's really
> in your heart. When I'm planning for
> the sake of my children's best interests
> and not my own ego, I'm always better
> off! (And so are they, of course...)
>

> Cerelle

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  That elusive balance . . .
      AUTHOR:  dmx
        DATE:  Friday, 6 August 1999, at 12:11 p.m.

 Response To:  A story about how my own ego once got in my way (OK,
maybe twice or more!)
      Author:  Cerelle
        Date:  Friday, 6 August 1999, at 2:50 a.m.



Yeah - wishing for the magic formula - the story of my homeschooling
existence. It seems inevitable that the main learning I will do during
these many years of homeschooling is that you have to strike a balance
- in everything! That, for me, is really hard to accept - muddling
around finding things that work!

The best advice I've gotten concerning 'planning' came from you &
others on the High School and College board here at Kaleidoscapes.
That was the suggestion that planning be kept to a minimum and the
emphasis be put more on recording the work/play that is done. There
is an interesting side effect of this, for me. It is that I DO become
more flexible & observe more. I can pick up interests and hear my
13 yo better. The catch is that I keep having to remind myself of
this! Thanks for reminder number 2004! :)

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: That elusive balance . . .
      AUTHOR:  Giovanna
        DATE:  Friday, 6 August 1999, at 10:05 p.m.

 Response To:  That elusive balance . . .
      Author:  dmx
        Date:  Friday, 6 August 1999, at 12:11 p.m.



> The best advice I've gotten concerning
> 'planning' came from you & others
> on the High School and College board
> here at Kaleidoscapes. That was the
> suggestion that planning be kept to
> a minimum and the emphasis be put more
> on recording the work/play that is done.

YES! Record AFTER THE FACT! That's the best record keeping there is
and it doesn't cause those horrible guilty feelings. No lesson plans
undone, nothing left unfinished!

Amazing how much fast you can fill up a notebook when record keeping
is done in this way.

Giovanna

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Evaluating the process, not the product
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Friday, 6 August 1999, at 11:36 p.m.



Last spring, a friend of mine named Marianne gave a great presentation
on portfolios. I happened to run across her handout from that program
today, and I think her message is perfect for what we're talking about
here.

Marianne emphasized how important it is to keep our eyes on the process
-- to let the portfolio document the learning PROCESS -- instead of
trying to showcasse our children's work as a series of finished products.
For that reason, we might want to include more than just the "best"
things our children have done. What about the less "successful" projects
and papers -- the poem in which the child took an unaccustomed risk,
the first drawing done with an unfamiliar medium, the barely legible
notes taken during a cross-country trip, a page of math problems showing
the difficulty of grappling with a new concept. These things have
a place in a portfolio IF our purpose is not simply to impress someone
but to faithfully record an educational and developmental journey.

A series of process-oriented portfolios is almost like a cross-section
of a tree. You can see the growth rings! From the outside, we may
only see that this tree over here is bigger around than than that
one over there. But growth rings show us how a particular tree grew
during any given year.

Cerelle

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: That elusive balance . . .
      AUTHOR:  Tracey
        DATE:  Saturday, 7 August 1999, at 8:56 a.m.

 Response To:  Re: That elusive balance . . .
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Friday, 6 August 1999, at 10:05 p.m.



Thats how I do it....I have a very brief description of what i would
like to accomplish ...But what gets written down is what we actually
do accomplish...I have never spent hours on lesson plans. This has
been a great discussion. Tracey
>

> YES! Record AFTER THE FACT! That's
> the best record keeping there is and
> it doesn't cause those horrible guilty
> feelings. No lesson plans undone, nothing
> left unfinished!

> Amazing how much fast you can fill
> up a notebook when record keeping is
> done in this way.

> Giovanna

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  test packages
      AUTHOR:  Susan
        DATE:  Saturday, 7 August 1999, at 10:15 a.m.



Has anyone tried the evaluation software put out (I think) by The
Learning Company? I just saw these for the first time (maybe they
are new releases) at Comp USA last week and was very interested--
they come in two or three grade-level groups like K-3, 4-6, etc.

Also has anyone used those Middle School Advantage and High School
Advantage programs? THey are everywhere--Sam's, Comp USA, etc.

We have been using a really great computer curriculum (Tomorrow's
Promise) but the price has gone up and am not sure we can stick with
it ... looking for other computer core curriculum options. Love that
approach--covering basics quickly in fun ways then "unschooling" the
rest of the time.

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Another thought...
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Saturday, 7 August 1999, at 11:10 a.m.

 Response To:  Evaluating the process, not the product
      Author:  Cerelle
        Date:  Friday, 6 August 1999, at 11:36 p.m.



When I looked at the subject of my (above) post just now, it hit me
weird. I didn't really mean to be saying that products aren't worth
evaluating. Of course they are. In one sense, product is what it's
all about. The process is just our way of getting TO that product.

This is like the old journey/destination argument, and while I agree
with those who say that making the most of the journey is just as
important as arriving at our destination, I always want to point out
that if we didn't have a destination in mind, we wouldn't be taking
that journey in the first place.

So I'm not really suggesting that "products" don't matter. This is
not an either/or dichotomy. Of course it DOES matter whether or not
our children leave home with an education they can be proud of. But
education isn't something that's ever really complete, either, and
a *person* is never a finished product.

Cerelle

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Another thought...
      AUTHOR:  dmx
        DATE:  Saturday, 7 August 1999, at 1:53 p.m.

 Response To:  Another thought...
      Author:  Cerelle
        Date:  Saturday, 7 August 1999, at 11:10 a.m.



I found your first post thought-provoking. It seems right on to me.
Naturally, I agree that we need to be working towards something -
maybe not an end product, but certainly towards the ability to pursue
interests and challenge oneself. But, maybe because what others 'see'
are the accomplishments of our kids, I have to fight the tendency
to focus too much on that. I think it's helpful to remember to look
at the process more often.

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: test packages
      AUTHOR:  Brenda In Ohio
        DATE:  Saturday, 7 August 1999, at 5:06 p.m.

 Response To:  test packages
      Author:  Susan
        Date:  Saturday, 7 August 1999, at 10:15 a.m.



> Also has anyone used those Middle
> School Advantage and High School Advantage
> programs? THey are everywhere--Sam's,
> Comp USA, etc.

We have both High School and Middle School Advantage. The literature/vocabulary/typing
CD we use regularly to suppliment. The history, science and particularly
the health are also great supliments. We don't use the math at all.
All of these are found in the Middle School Advantage. There are some
duplicates in the High School Advantage and we don't use any of the
other stuff that is in it. None of it is sufficient for a curriculum
except for the Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing. If I had it to do over,
I would have bought the Middle School only.

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: test packages
      AUTHOR:  Susan
        DATE:  Saturday, 7 August 1999, at 7:19 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: test packages
      Author:  Brenda In Ohio
        Date:  Saturday, 7 August 1999, at 5:06 p.m.



Brenda--

Thanks so mcuh for the info. What ARE you using for high school? And
if these programs are just supplements, what are you using, if anything,
for curriculum? Muchas gracias-

Susan
>

> We have both High School and Middle
> School Advantage. The literature/vocabulary/typing
> CD we use regularly to suppliment. The
> history, science and particularly the
> health are also great supliments. We
> don't use the math at all. All of these
> are found in the Middle School Advantage.
> There are some duplicates in the High
> School Advantage and we don't use any
> of the other stuff that is in it. None
> of it is sufficient for a curriculum
> except for the Mavis Beacon Teaches
> Typing. If I had it to do over, I would
> have bought the Middle School only.
>

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Sometimes I need reminding, too
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Sunday, 8 August 1999, at 3:26 a.m.

 Response To:  That elusive balance . . .
      Author:  dmx
        Date:  Friday, 6 August 1999, at 12:11 p.m.



Maybe we could promise to send each other yearly reminders until our
kids are out of the house. Ha!

We've had a wonderful, halcyon summer here at the Simmons house. Really,
really relaxed. We made up summer reading lists back in June, just
for the heck of it, and although no one has managed to get through
as many books as they'd PLANNED (there's that word again), we've all
read lots of books we'd been meaning to get around to for several
months.

Even so, about once a week, I experience a little pang of concern
-- nearly always about higher math. I can't pin Laurel down long enough
to do any math with her, and Hunter just grins at me and says, "No
way." Well, it's summer. I'm not gonna push it. But the worry is still
there, like that little bit of grit in an oyster's shell, so I've
been considering making some plans for this fall, just to help myself
feel better right now. Sometimes that's what planning is all about,
I suspect. It's like a promise you make to yourself that the future
is going to be a little more productive, a little more organized,
than the present.

Meanwhile, I have to admit that if I were to seriously evaluate the
progress that's been made around here recently, this would surely
turn out to be a 5-star summer in lots of areas. We're hardly stagnating,
although I can't say how BALANCED the growth has been. Sometimes it's
hard to see balance until you look at a whole year from a few months'
distance. Also, I think our own prejudices sometimes make us unbalanced
evaluators.

For instance: Hunter's been reading those dreadful Star Wars novels
and short story collections. I believe in my heart of hearts that
they're pretty substandard literature, and I tend to cringe inwardly
every time I see him deep in the middle of another one (there seem
to be scores of them in print, naturally). But here's why my biases
are getting in the way of a fair and balanced evaluation of Hunter's
reading life...

1) These are teen/adult level books. A year ago, I was wondering if
he'd ever move on from Hank the Cowdog.

2) They're LONG suckers! When I think hard about it, I'm surprised
to realize that Hunter has suddenly developed an attention span capable
of plowing through 600-page paperbacks.

3) These books have inspired him to try writing action/adventure stories
in that hokey space-opera style. And even though a good part of me
is quasi-horrified, another part of me knows there are lots of moms/teachers
out there who'd turn cartwheels if their child/student ever once volunteered
to write a story for the sheer joy of it. I need to remind myself
of this more often.

4) These aren't the only books he's reading this summer -- they just
happen to be his current favorites. He's also reading science books,
Mark Twain, magazine articles (mostly science), and lots of stuff
on the Web.

In other words, it's not that hard to find the balance as long as
I honestly look for it -- and don't let myself get carried away with
my own biases and fears. Easier said than done, of course. Maybe if
I were journaling a little more responsibly...(!)

Thanks, dmx, for reminder #3045.

Cerelle


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Good thoughts, Robin
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Sunday, 8 August 1999, at 3:39 a.m.

 Response To:  Non-academic...non-traditional evaluation!
      Author:  Robin
        Date:  Tuesday, 3 August 1999, at 8:35 p.m.



The homeschooling support group I belong to holds a "Recognition Ceremony"
every May. The parents can publicly recognize their children for anything
they choose on this evening, and although academics are often the
focus, it seems that just as often, the parents (and children) are
most proud of accomplishments that took place in non-academic areas.
I think that's really neat.

My husband and I were talking the other night, and we agreed that
the most marvelous thing we've seen in our son this year is that he
took such excellent care of his dog!! It's seems like an odd thing
to zero in on, but for Hunter -- the youngest in the family -- it's
a very big deal for him to be the one doing the caretaking. For most
of his life, he's been on the receiving end of all the nurture.

So yes, I agree with you that the academics are sometimes the icing
on the cake. It's not so much that we overlook them completely or
fail to value them at all, but sometimes they do take a back seat
to other things that are going on in our children's lives -- things
that may ultimately make much more of a difference in the kind of
lives they are able to lead in the future. I enjoyed reading your
post.

Cerelle

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Sometimes I need reminding, too
      AUTHOR:  Tracey
        DATE:  Sunday, 8 August 1999, at 7:14 a.m.

 Response To:  Sometimes I need reminding, too
      Author:  Cerelle
        Date:  Sunday, 8 August 1999, at 3:26 a.m.



I think you're right....I know I need reminding every so often....That
is one of the reasons I love your monthly topics...They never fail
to encourage me, remind me as well as show me everyone elses ideas
which refresh and give me new ideas..... Thank You for having this
board and thanks to all who participate. Sincerely, Tracey

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  True Relaxation: another benefit of homeschooling
      AUTHOR:  Julie in NM
        DATE:  Sunday, 8 August 1999, at 9:59 a.m.

 Response To:  Sometimes I need reminding, too
      Author:  Cerelle
        Date:  Sunday, 8 August 1999, at 3:26 a.m.



I just got a letter from a true friend (you know, the kind to whom
you can say anything without fear of being judged, and visa versa).
She wrote that the summer has been hectic with the kids home (they
go to ps, she doesn't work outside of the home). They want to go here,
they want to go there, they are into everything and very demanding
of her time--something she isn't used to, since for much of the day
she's home alone. (She always asks me how I can stand having my children
around all of the time--and I truly don't think homeschooling is for
her, because although she loves her children very much and is an excellent
mother, IMHO, but she just isn't one of those people who can be with
other people all of the time.) She concluded with the thought that
summer's almost over and life can get back to normal.

This made me think (and Cerelle, you just jelled the thought) about
how our "off" time IS so nice and relaxed. Of course, we have things
to do, but it seems that a lot of that "go here and there" activity
is satisfied during the "school" year. And what strikes me more than
anything is that since my children are home all of the time, I don't
feel the need to entertain them (as in, they don't know what to do
with themselves because they're rarely in this position of having
so much time at home) and we can just enjoy each other. I'm used to
the house being semi-messy ; I'm used to the clunking from inside
the bedroom that I can identify as "making a fort"--so I don't feel
the need to rush in there and check on them. I'm used to my things
being borrowed to make an elevator to the treehouse so that ALL of
the stuffed animals can visit. I'm even used to the splashing (rolling?)
around in the mud puddles after it rains . "Off" time can really be
a fun slowdown time for us, and we ALL can enjoy it.

I guess I'm rambling a bit, but thanks, Cerelle, for helping me appreciate
how truly good we've got it!

> Maybe we could promise to send
> each other yearly reminders until our
> kids are out of the house. Ha!

> We've had a wonderful, halcyon
> summer here at the Simmons house. Really,
> really relaxed. We made up summer reading
> lists back in June, just for the heck
> of it, and although no one has managed
> to get through as many books as they'd
> PLANNED (there's that word again), we've
> all read lots of books we'd been meaning
> to get around to for several months.
>

> Even so, about once a week, I experience
> a little pang of concern -- nearly always
> about higher math. I can't pin Laurel
> down long enough to do any math with
> her, and Hunter just grins at me and
> says, "No way." Well, it's
> summer. I'm not gonna push it. But the
> worry is still there, like that little
> bit of grit in an oyster's shell, so
> I've been considering making some plans
> for this fall, just to help myself feel
> better right now. Sometimes that's what
> planning is all about, I suspect. It's
> like a promise you make to yourself
> that the future is going to be a little
> more productive, a little more organized,
> than the present.

> Meanwhile, I have to admit that
> if I were to seriously evaluate the
> progress that's been made around here
> recently, this would surely turn out
> to be a 5-star summer in lots of areas.
> We're hardly stagnating, although I
> can't say how BALANCED the growth has
> been. Sometimes it's hard to see balance
> until you look at a whole year from
> a few months' distance. Also, I think
> our own prejudices sometimes make us
> unbalanced evaluators.

> For instance: Hunter's been reading
> those dreadful Star Wars novels and
> short story collections. I believe in
> my heart of hearts that they're pretty
> substandard literature, and I tend to
> cringe inwardly every time I see him
> deep in the middle of another one (there
> seem to be scores of them in print,
> naturally). But here's why my biases
> are getting in the way of a fair and
> balanced evaluation of Hunter's reading
> life...

> 1) These are teen/adult level books.
> A year ago, I was wondering if he'd
> ever move on from Hank the Cowdog.

> 2) They're LONG suckers! When I
> think hard about it, I'm surprised to
> realize that Hunter has suddenly developed
> an attention span capable of plowing
> through 600-page paperbacks.

> 3) These books have inspired him
> to try writing action/adventure stories
> in that hokey space-opera style. And
> even though a good part of me is quasi-horrified,
> another part of me knows there are lots
> of moms/teachers out there who'd turn
> cartwheels if their child/student ever
> once volunteered to write a story for
> the sheer joy of it. I need to remind
> myself of this more often.

> 4) These aren't the only books
> he's reading this summer -- they just
> happen to be his current favorites.
> He's also reading science books, Mark
> Twain, magazine articles (mostly science),
> and lots of stuff on the Web.

> In other words, it's not that hard
> to find the balance as long as I honestly
> look for it -- and don't let myself
> get carried away with my own biases
> and fears. Easier said than done, of
> course. Maybe if I were journaling a
> little more responsibly...(!)

> Thanks, dmx, for reminder #3045.
>

> Cerelle

>


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