Digests from the KALEIDOSCAPES MONTHLY TOPIC
(HOMESCHOOLING) DISCUSSION BOARD
The Kaleidoscapes discussion boards are no longer available (thus, links to them won't work);
you can, however, still find many of the same wonderful folks who posted on those boards at Network 54.
There are no ads throughout these digests, but we hope you will consider shopping through our Amazon link (Thanks!)
Back to the Digest Index
HOMESCHOOLING GIRLS: THE JOYS AND
CHALLENGES (Part 3)
***************************************************************************
#147: Book for older girl (Audrey)
#148: Re: Books for Girls (Juliet)
#149: History Projects (Juliet)
#151: Art history (Annette)
#152: Fun stuff (Deborah)
#153: One more idea (Deborah)
#156: Girls and Self Worth (Giovanna)
#157: acting different (Rhonda)
#158: Re: acting different (Giovanna)
#160: Creativity and peers (Cerelle)
#162: Re: Creativity and peers (Rhonda)
#165: Acting differently (Abby)
#167: Re: Girls and Self Worth (dawne)
#168: Re: independence/self-esteem... (Christie)
#169: Re: Well, here's my opinion... (SueCraigmile)
#170: Re: Girls and Self Worth (SueCraigmile)
#171: Re: independence/self-esteem... (Liz)
#172: My rambling on the topic... (Dawn)
#173: Homeschool or just home? (alison in ny)
#174: Re: Homeschool or just home? (Giovanna)
#175: Re: What a great topic! (Dawn)
#176: Re: Homeschool or just home? (Annette)
#177: Re: Girls and Math... (Dawn)
#178: Women in History (Dawn)
#179: Re: Women in History (Giovanna)
#180: Re: Homeschool or just home? (PamS)
#181: Re: Women in History (Cerelle)
#183: Re: Women in History (Annette)
#184: Re: Women in History (Kimberly)
#185: Re: Women in History (Kimberly)
#186: Re: Homeschool or just home? (Cerelle)
#187: Re: Women in History (Annette)
#188: Re: Homeschool or just home? (Giovanna)
#189: Re: Girls and Self Worth (Lacie)
#190: here are a few from my list :-) (Dawn)
#191: Re: Women in History (dawne)
#192: Re: Homeschool or just home? (dawne)
#193: Re: Girls and Self Worth (Elizabeth)
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#147) Book for older girl
AUTHOR: Audrey
DATE: Friday, 17 March 2000, at 9:32 a.m.
Reply To: (#139) Books for Girls
Author: Laura in TX
Date: Tuesday, 14 March 2000, at 11:26 a.m.
My daughter doesn't like to read (unfortunately) and only reads when it's an
assignment. But, she just loved "The Cat Who Ate My Gymsuit" which she read on
her own--non stop. I've only read portions. It's about a beloved teacher who
is fired, perhaps unjustly. It has some discussion on going through puperty.
She read it nine months ago and still tells everyone how interesting it was.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#148) Re: Books for Girls
AUTHOR: Juliet
DATE: Friday, 17 March 2000, at 3:54 p.m.
Reply To: (#139) Books for Girls
Author: Laura in TX
Date: Tuesday, 14 March 2000, at 11:26 a.m.
My daughter has enjoyed many of those already named, and she has also enjoyed
The Magic Attic Club series, Portrait of Little Women books (one for each
girl), Mandy (written by Julie Edwards), Full House books, and the Mary Kate
and Ashley Olsen detective series and the Wishbone Classic books.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#149) History Projects
AUTHOR: Juliet
DATE: Friday, 17 March 2000, at 3:57 p.m.
What kind of projects do you have your dds do? The projects my ds like are
totally different from what my daughter likes to do. We've done sewing,
baking, weaving, sketching...what other kinds of history projects have any of
you done with your daughters?
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#151) Art history
AUTHOR: Annette
DATE: Saturday, 18 March 2000, at 11:20 p.m.
Reply To: (#149) History Projects
Author: Juliet
Date: Friday, 17 March 2000, at 3:57 p.m.
We have studied art history and that was wonderful. We picked an artist a week
and found out as much as we could about his/her life, the period they lived
in, what most art was like during that time, and then did our own
intrepretations of their work, using whatever medium they used, whatever
style. It was a lot of fun. You do have to buy some good quality art supplies
though. You could study the origins of the Red Cross and then volunteer for
them.
What kind of projects do you have your dds do?
: The projects my ds like are totally
: different from what my daughter likes to do.
: We've done sewing, baking, weaving,
: sketching...what other kinds of history
: projects have any of you done with your
: daughters?
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#152) Fun stuff
AUTHOR: Deborah
DATE: Sunday, 19 March 2000, at 6:19 p.m.
Reply To: (#149) History Projects
Author: Juliet
Date: Friday, 17 March 2000, at 3:57 p.m.
Here's sort of a collage of additional project ideas/resources to liven up
history studies: 1) Stamp collecting 2) Coin collecting 3) Scholastic's
Teaching American History with Art Masterpieces (includes posters, questions,
and activities) - not quite like sewing or baking but fun too 4) Audio tapes
(ie Scholastic's Great American Speeches - book w/cassette, or Classical Kids
tapes - Beethoven Lives Upstairs, Mr. Bach Comes to Call) 5) Aristoplay games
like Made for Trade (colonial times, barter, etc.) 6) Don't know if all Barnes
& Noble stores have this last item on clearance or not - we found The
Archaelogy Kit (book, clay, paint, & molds to form pots from Egyptian, Roman,
Greek, Chinese, & Aztec civilizations) by Running Press marked way down
recently 7) Depending on the age of your daughter(s), learning calligraphy
could be fun 8) Is there a local Renaissance Faire?
Hope these ideas help! Deborah
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#153) One more idea
AUTHOR: Deborah
DATE: Sunday, 19 March 2000, at 6:27 p.m.
Reply To: (#152) Fun stuff
Author: Deborah
Date: Sunday, 19 March 2000, at 6:19 p.m.
Perfect time of year! Start a garden plot with heirloom seeds.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#156) Girls and Self Worth
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Sunday, 19 March 2000, at 8:03 p.m.
My son (will be 8) this week was approached by a nine year old girl who told
him she wanted to marry him. Cute, right?
Well, I don't know.
While I may have found this "cute" 5 years ago my views have changed a lot.
I remember when I was in middle school. The "in" thing was to have a
boyfriend. Even if the "relationship" was nothing more than walking in the
hallway together, the whole thing gave you "status".
I could puke now just thinking about it. My worth and significance was SO
MISPLACED!
I want so much more than what I had for my daughter. Granted, my daughter will
not see and experience a lot of the things I did because she is not going to
school but homeschooling isn't the "sure answer" for life's problems.
How are you encouraging healthy helpings of self worth in your daughters?
Giovanna
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#157) acting different
AUTHOR: Rhonda
DATE: Monday, 20 March 2000, at 3:08 p.m.
My 12 year old daughter is very similar. She wore a HUGE bow in her hair to a
babysitting class. All the other girls (not homeschooled) had stylish teen
haircuts. I try to walk a fine line between encouraging her individuality and
trying to keep her from being seen as a freak. She really does not care what
others think of her until it affects the friendship. Then she is bewildered.
It's not just the way she dresses. She has such passion for her interests, her
intensity turns people off. I keep telling myself that these qualities will so
valuable in the teen years and adulthood. But even her father and I have
difficulty relating to her.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#158) Re: acting different
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Monday, 20 March 2000, at 8:59 p.m.
Reply To: (#157) acting different
Author: Rhonda
Date: Monday, 20 March 2000, at 3:08 p.m.
: It's not just the way she
: dresses. She has such passion for her
: interests, her intensity turns people off. I
: keep telling myself that these qualities
: will so valuable in the teen years and
: adulthood. But even her father and I have
: difficulty relating to her.
Do you think she would be a different person today had she not been
homeschooled?
I guess my question is: does homeschooling bring out qualities in children
that would otherwise be squelched by the experience of school peer groups and
that whole atmosphere? Or do you think your daughter would have been this way
regardless?
When I hear of a child who has "intensity" or a strong sense of individuality
I always say to myself, "Now THAT is one interesting child!"
How does her intensity turn people off?
Giovanna
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#160) Creativity and peers
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Monday, 20 March 2000, at 9:25 p.m.
Reply To: (#157) acting different
Author: Rhonda
Date: Monday, 20 March 2000, at 3:08 p.m.
Here are some quotes I pulled out of my notes today that seem to me to pertain
to what's being said here:
Jerome Kagan, who edited a book called _Creativity and Learning_, refers in
his introduction to classic studies of creative high-achievers (architects and
scientists, mostly) and describes the creative person as "less concerned than
most with the pleasant security of positve peer regard."
Further, Kagan says the creative personality tends to be "either completely
free of the addictive quality of social acceptance or well defended against
this motive."
In another article in the same book, Jerome B. Weisner says, "It is important,
especially in childhood and early youth, that novel ideas and unconventional
patterns of action should be more widely tolerated, not criticized too soon
and too often."
I was fresh from reading y'all's posts today when I was looking through my
folder of notes on learning and creativity, and I thought, "Wow -- bingo! Here
we go..."
When my oldest daughter was 12, she wore big yellow suspenders, denim skirts,
and white T-shirts. She was happy with her choice of clothes, even though she
knew other kids her age thought she was kinda goofy looking. A few years
later, she was mad at me for having "let her dress like a dork" at that age.
Ha!! Let me tell you something, if I had tried to stop her or "correct" her
fashion choice in anyway, she would have been really, really, REALLY upset
with me.
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#162) Re: Creativity and peers
AUTHOR: Rhonda
DATE: Monday, 20 March 2000, at 9:39 p.m.
Reply To: (#160) Creativity and peers
Author: Cerelle
Date: Monday, 20 March 2000, at 9:25 p.m.
I think I will consider this level of individuality as a sign of her great
creativity.
Do I think she would be different if she had not been homeschooled. YES.
During her public school years (K-2) she tried very hard to be like everyone
else and she was desperately unhappy. She is very happy now, although it took
a long period of deschooling and adjustment.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#165) Acting differently
AUTHOR: Abby
DATE: Tuesday, 21 March 2000, at 11:37 p.m.
My 11yod was invited to a bunking party on her friend's birthday in October.
She was the only girl there who is taught at home. It was at the home of
friends from church and the group consisted of two of our preachers girls, a
couple of girls from our church and a couple of p.s. girls from our small
community. I was disappointed (putting it lightly!) to find that they had
rented one of those horror movies (Chucky) for the girls to watch. The mother
told me our daughter went in the kitchen where she was and carried on a
conversation with the mom instead of watching the movie. Our daughter said she
didn't like spooky movies. The mother couldn't believe the pleasant
conversation they had. I was so glad. Last week we went to the skating rink
with other families and our daughter spent most of her time helping a boy who
was bigger than she (but younger) who is slightly handicapped skate by pulling
him around the rink. She was oblivious to the fact that none of the other kids
cared. Her dad said that made him as proud as a home run!! I just hope she
continues to be herself and not decide to be like everyone else. Yes, it can
be embarassing sometimes. She was in a play with the community theater and she
wrote her interests as "an avid horseman who loves to muck out stalls". I
almost died when I read that as the other girls her age all listed the same as
each other. But she said, "That's what I like to do." I'm still dealing with
peer pressure of my own!! Hope this isn't too long. Abby
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#167) Re: Girls and Self Worth
AUTHOR: dawne
DATE: Wednesday, 22 March 2000, at 9:32 p.m.
Reply To: (#156) Girls and Self Worth
Author: Giovanna
Date: Sunday, 19 March 2000, at 8:03 p.m.
: How are you encouraging healthy helpings of
: self worth in your daughters?
Well my daughter is 3 so I have time :-)
The best thing I am doing for "her" I'm really doing for "us". I'm surrounding
myself with wonderful literature by women and about women. In fact, I've
recently acquired a book by an author whose style I already love, SARK, and am
writing in the margins. I'm discovering more of me and preserving it for her!!
The day I give her Succulent Wild Women will be like a rite of passage. It
pleases me to think my feelings, thoughts and bits of wisdom will be preserved
with her in mind. Her benefit, her gain and her joy! Dawne
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#168) Re: independence/self-esteem...
AUTHOR: Christie
DATE: Friday, 24 March 2000, at 5:48 p.m.
Reply To: (#97) independence/self-esteem...
Author: Amy A.
Date: Monday, 6 March 2000, at 10:55 p.m.
: What do you think about your girls' sense of
: self? Do you see examples of independence,
: assertiveness, or self-assuredness that
: differ from your own experience or those of
: ps girls? How much of it do you attribute to
: homeschooling?
: I'm particularly thinking of Susannah Sheffer's
: book (A Sense of Self: Listening to
: Homeschooled Adolescent Girls) and how she
: found that homeschooled girls don't seem to
: go through the whole self-image crisis and
: the loss of voice and perspective that
: schooled girls seem to fall prey to.
: Personally, I remember being socialized at
: home and school to be a doormat and have
: spent the better part of my adult life
: working to overcome that :(
: Any examples or stories you might like to
: share? (I realize I haven't phrased this
: whole thing as clearly as I'd like; my
: apologies, it's past my bedtime!) Amy A :)
We just started homeschooling our 10 year old daughter at the new year. It
seems to me that she is taking this opportunity to break free from the "in
crowd" that she's been dealing with since kindergarten. Her sense of
self-worth is stronger now, and she's discovering that she has things to say
which other people (i.e. adults) find interesting! Her most revealing action
is her tendency to identify negative behavior or characteristics that she
observed among her p.s. friends - and then to state clearly that she's going
to take a different approach to life. That's definitely a benefit of
homeschooling.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#169) Re: Well, here's my opinion...
AUTHOR: SueCraigmile
DATE: Friday, 24 March 2000, at 5:51 p.m.
Reply To: (#144) Well, here's my opinion...
Author: Lee
Date: Thursday, 16 March 2000, at 6:54 a.m.
: If your daughter isn't concerned, I don't think
: you need to be either. Those girls who make
: fun of her are shallow-minded,
: run-with-the-herd types. Who cares what they
: think? Your daughter's hair sounds lovely.
: Could it be jealousy? I have 2 homeschool daughters and while I know they
each have a strong sense of self I wish they were more strong in their
individualness. (I know bad grammar) They are both very aware of what others
think of their choice of clothes hair, everything, my 13 year old is a
trendsetter. but she is still out to impress. The 11 year old simply does not
want to stand out at all. I think it is awesome that your daughters are so
comfortable with themselves that they can dress the way they choose and not
worry about it. Also that your daughter would choose not to watch the movie
AWESOME! That is why we homeschool to raise children who can think for
themselves.This world will value the independant thinker when they are older.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#170) Re: Girls and Self Worth
AUTHOR: SueCraigmile
DATE: Friday, 24 March 2000, at 5:59 p.m.
Reply To: (#156) Girls and Self Worth
Author: Giovanna
Date: Sunday, 19 March 2000, at 8:03 p.m.
I agree with you. My middle daughter went to kindergarten in 1994. During that
year she learned that being attractive to the boys was all that mattered. I
believe if she would have stayed in school she would have gotten by on her
looks and personality all the way through. Luckily we brought her home and she
is turning into a brilliant, beautiful girl because of her own self. Not what
others tell her. Also during that year I helped alot in the classroom, I was
shocked at what I heard 6 year old boys talking about. Things I was not aware
of until I was much older. It makes me sick to think of all the children that
are getting an education their parents can't even imagine. Like you I want my
daughters to have so much more than I did. It has taken me 15 years to realize
that I am beautiful, desireable, and smart. Luckily for me I have a loving,
supportive husband. But I will rejoice to see my girls succeeding in life
because "why shouldn't they?" They will know no other thought pattern. Now
that is exciting!
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#171) Re: independence/self-esteem...
AUTHOR: Liz
DATE: Saturday, 25 March 2000, at 9:17 a.m.
Reply To: (#168) Re: independence/self-esteem...
Author: Christie
Date: Friday, 24 March 2000, at 5:48 p.m.
:I find that my daughter has developed a set of values with which she can
live. She is quite tall for her age (her biological father was very tall, so
she will probably favor him) and she is far from thin, but isn't fat. Of
course the ps girls would consider her heavy, but she is very happy with her
appearance and doesn't feel a need to look like the models. She is musical and
performs a lot, so she has gained a very good sense of presence and walks with
great asuredness. I have noticed of late, that she has standards for friends,
too, and adheres to those standards. Seldom do we have to say anything about
the friends whom she chooses. She is beginning to notice the clothing stores
frequented by teens. I guess I can't escape that forever, but she is somewhat
critical of commercials, advertising, and fads. I think she will grow into a
careful consumer. ALl in all, I am happy with the way my daughter sees
herself. She is happy with herself and with friends who share her values.
A last note ... I think she is kinder and has more empathy than some of the
friends from ps. Actually, most of her ps friends have been dropped. She
doesn't care for them as much now that they are all gowing older. Liz
We just started homeschooling our 10 year old
: daughter at the new year. It seems to me
: that she is taking this opportunity to break
: free from the "in crowd" that
: she's been dealing with since kindergarten.
: Her sense of self-worth is stronger now, and
: she's discovering that she has things to say
: which other people (i.e. adults) find
: interesting! Her most revealing action is
: her tendency to identify negative behavior
: or characteristics that she observed among
: her p.s. friends - and then to state clearly
: that she's going to take a different
: approach to life. That's definitely a
: benefit of homeschooling.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#172) My rambling on the topic...
AUTHOR: Dawn
DATE: Saturday, 25 March 2000, at 7:21 p.m.
Reply To: (#130) Re: "Girl" track vs General education
Author: PamS
Date: Monday, 13 March 2000, at 7:23 p.m.
We have always had our children help with both household chores and general
maintenance of buildings and cars. Lets face it - a 5yo thinks of cleaning the
toilet *as great fun*. You just have to let them help and guide them, and not
worry about *perfection* (DH has a problem with this... but another story).
Our oldest 2 are girls, and the younger 2 are boys, ages 16, 13, 6, and 2(who
thinks the toilet brush is a great tool for cleaning the whole bathroom when
he gets his little helpful hands on it).
So far the older 3 know how to do household chores, general car maintenance,
how to use tools, including power. They also know how to cook and sew - the
6yo is learning the latter 2. I am lucky in the fact that my DDDDDDH is knows
and does this all himself without much prodding (sometimes I need the prodding
myself)
It is a part of everyday life and we teach it as the moment arises. We also
feel that they all need to to be schooled toward the "college track", even if
they decide not to attend college. A good example would be a friend of mine
whose oldest DD always said she wanted to get married and have children and
not attend college..... Well guess what? DD is now 18 and wants to attend
college but is not prepared for it... mom spent all her efforts into just
teaching her womanly household skills and put aside anything academic, even
when her DD wanted to pursue an academic subject. She felt well she if she is
just going to be a wife and mother - she is not going to need this stuff.
Just some thoughts :-/
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#173) Homeschool or just home?
AUTHOR: alison in ny
DATE: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 12:16 p.m.
We are a "hybrid" family. 10 yo dd is now hs'ed, but 15 yo and 14 yo are still
in ps and always have been. Both my older girls, (esp. the 15yo) have always
had their own ideas about style, refused to follow the trends.(Direct quote
from my oldest at approx 12 years old -"Why should I wear stuff with the brand
name on the outside? - let them do their own advertising, I'm not a
billboard.!) As much as I love hsing, I believe that girls (and boys too) get
their strength of charachter from home more than school. PS - I was never that
self confident at the same age, but then,I had to wear a uniform, complete
with bowtie and beanie!)
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#174) Re: Homeschool or just home?
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 12:43 p.m.
Reply To: (#173) Homeschool or just home?
Author: alison in ny
Date: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 12:16 p.m.
: As much as I love hsing, I
: believe that girls (and boys too) get their
: strength of charachter from home more than
: school.
Interesting post.
I see scores of girls with no individuality, no sense of personal style, no
confidence. TONS! So what does this mean?
There are so many factors that play into this.
More than a few books have been written regarding the school environment and
how it encourages peer dependence. Some girls walk away unscathed by their
school experiences (example: your daughters, God bless them!). But some (like
me and many others... tons others, maybe the majority? they are everywhere I
look, it seems) get reeled in and trapped.
So what happened at home? Or is home totally, 100% responsible? Could 8+ hours
per day, 5 days a week of a certain type of environment actually wipe out
everything that a parent has tried to ingrane in their daughter? I want to say
NO and agree with you that home IS the where daughters get their strength of
character.
BUT...
As I have read with horror the epidemic of youth and school violence, I don't
know what horrifies me more.... the child/teen commiting the crime or the
parents at a loss as to why their child did this.
What do you think?
Giovanna
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#175) Re: What a great topic!
AUTHOR: Dawn
DATE: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 7:21 p.m.
Reply To: (#6) What a great topic!
Author: Joan in MN
Date: Tuesday, 29 February 2000, at 11:56 p.m.
: Here's to our daughters!
I was sitting here reading this thread..... and I started thinking... girls
use to turn to their parents as they grew, especially their mothers. Until
very recent history --- very few girls were educated outside of the home. Yes,
there have always been conflicts hormones... and always will be. I think that
the bonds that I have formed with my daughters have deepened since bringing
them home. Many of their ps friends are envious of our relationship. DD#1 16,
has friends who have had babies, miscarriges and abortions without their
parents knowing. DD always encourages them to talk to their parents but they
say "I can't, I'm not close to my parents like you are" DD told us that she
could not go through something like having a baby etc.. without us there to
support . She said she knew we would be angry, hurt, disappionted, but that we
would still love and support her, something many of her ps friends don't think
their parents would do.
My DDs aslo belong to a couple of youth groups. The leaders always comment to
us on how they are less likely to follow the crowd on issues, dress, language,
manners. They are the first to welcome newcomers and befriend them… even if
they seem "a bit odd from the crowd." They also comment that they also are the
ones who always offer to help and clean up afterwards, and these are qualities
they see most of the time in Hsed youth.
I like the fact that my DDs will grow developing a self of themselves - away
from the crowds, and the herd mentality.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#176) Re: Homeschool or just home?
AUTHOR: Annette
DATE: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 7:38 p.m.
Reply To: (#174) Re: Homeschool or just home?
Author: Giovanna
Date: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 12:43 p.m.
I wonder how much personality has to do with it too. I have a friend whose dd
has only been home schooled. She is now in the 6th grade and consumed with how
she looks. She is very into clothes, status, who is the right person to hang
out with, etc. Her parents did not raise her this way but here she is.
I believe that parenting of course has something to do with it but I also have
seen wonderful parent's kids go majorly astray. I also have seen parents who
have burned out early on in the parenting journey and their children were left
to their own devices and they turned out great, going on to college that they
themselves were paying for, missionary trips that they got sponsors for,
worked hard at their jobs and were just generally nice people.
It is a mystery to me what the recipe is for all kids to be satisfied with who
they are, confident, and sure of their steps. I just know that I admire my two
girls so much because they also are so much more set and confident than I ever
could have or would have thought of being back in my adolesence.
Interesting post.
: I see scores of girls with no individuality, no
: sense of personal style, no confidence.
: TONS! So what does this mean?
: There are so many factors that play into this.
: More than a few books have been written
: regarding the school environment and how it
: encourages peer dependence. Some girls walk
: away unscathed by their school experiences
: (example: your daughters, God bless them!).
: But some (like me and many others... tons
: others, maybe the majority? they are
: everywhere I look, it seems) get reeled in
: and trapped.
: So what happened at home? Or is home totally,
: 100% responsible? Could 8+ hours per day, 5
: days a week of a certain type of environment
: actually wipe out everything that a parent
: has tried to ingrane in their daughter? I
: want to say NO and agree with you that home
: IS the where daughters get their strength of
: character.
: BUT...
: As I have read with horror the epidemic of
: youth and school violence, I don't know what
: horrifies me more.... the child/teen
: commiting the crime or the parents at a loss
: as to why their child did this.
: What do you think?
: Giovanna
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#177) Re: Girls and Math...
AUTHOR: Dawn
DATE: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 9:10 p.m.
Reply To: (#14) Re: Girls and Math...
Author: pat
Date: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 1:06 a.m.
I think girls are just as capable as boys. Society tends to push boys towards
the math and sciences. How many of us in school were pushed toward the
"courses that would benifit you more as woman" (a quote from a male high
school counsler i remeber 18 or so yrs later). How many of our mothers had no
choice in the courses they took.
Many studies have been done that show a boy will be picked over a girl in the
classroom when a hand is raised. Even by "enlightend" female teachers who say
they try to choose girls more.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#178) Women in History
AUTHOR: Dawn
DATE: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 9:16 p.m.
I have a question... Other then the obvious famous women popular women -
Queens Elizibeth, Madame Curie, Sacaweja, Dolly Madison....who would have your
DDs study?
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#179) Re: Women in History
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 9:55 p.m.
Reply To: (#178) Women in History
Author: Dawn
Date: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 9:16 p.m.
: I have a question... Other then the obvious
: famous women popular women - Queens
: Elizibeth, Madame Curie, Sacaweja, Dolly
: Madison....who would have your DDs study?
We read about Harriet Tubman this past year and we couldn't get enough! Her
bravery, determination. WOW!
We also read about Rosa Parks. What an interesting story! We also loved
reading about Clara Barton.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#180) Re: Homeschool or just home?
AUTHOR: PamS
DATE: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 10:04 p.m.
Reply To: (#173) Homeschool or just home?
Author: alison in ny
Date: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 12:16 p.m.
I think it is probably possible to raise independent thinkers in spite of PS
but it must take an awful lot of diligence and "unteaching" on the part of the
parents EVERY day. We have friends with kids in PS and they comment on the
"interesting" dinner conversations they have; they are VERY involved with
their kids' lives in spite of PS and have cultivated excellent communication
lines with them. The kids are doing well and I think are able to separate
themselves from the peer pressure.
I think most of us parents would become lax and tend to let the kids deal with
issues on their own . . . and that's where a lot of the problems come in.
Teenagers especially are generally reluctant to seek advice and feel like they
can handle their lives on their own; I know that's how I was and I made some
stupid decisions that I wouldn't have had my parents been more watchful. They
knew they could "trust" me so they let me have more independence than I should
have had!
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#181) Re: Women in History
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 10:08 p.m.
Reply To: (#178) Women in History
Author: Dawn
Date: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 9:16 p.m.
Here are a few notable women from my own collection -- with handy URLs
attached! Enjoy!
Jane Addams:
http://www.uic.edu/jaddams/hull/hull_house.html
Ada Lovelace:
http://www.agnesscott.edu/lriddle/women/love.htm
Rachel Carson:
http://www.rachelcarson.org/
Jane Goodall:
http://www.janegoodall.org/
Hypatia of Alexandria:
http://cosmopolis.com/people/hypatia.html
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#183) Re: Women in History
AUTHOR: Annette
DATE: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 11:29 p.m.
Reply To: (#181) Re: Women in History
Author: Cerelle
Date: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 10:08 p.m.
: Ohhhhh, we just found put about Hypatia this year and loved reading about
her.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#184) Re: Women in History
AUTHOR: Kimberly
DATE: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 11:37 p.m.
Reply To: (#179) Re: Women in History
Author: Giovanna
Date: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 9:55 p.m.
In the venue of strong women we love Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Victoria
Woodhull, Susan B. Anthony, Sojourner Truth, Matilda Joselyn Gage,Nellie Bly,
Belva Lockwood, Mary McLeod Bethune, Elizabeth Blackwell, Antoinette
Brown......and the list goes on...a little further back in history I would
recommend Eleanor of Aquitane, Cleopatra, Joan of Arc.
That is off the top of my head....since I love history and have 2 daughters
(and a son who is sandwiched in between.
Peace, Kim
: We read about Harriet Tubman this past year and
: we couldn't get enough! Her bravery,
: determination. WOW!
: We also read about Rosa Parks. What an
: interesting story! We also loved reading
: about Clara Barton.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#185) Re: Women in History
AUTHOR: Kimberly
DATE: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 11:46 p.m.
Reply To: (#183) Re: Women in History
Author: Annette
Date: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 11:29 p.m.
Theano (5th Century B.C.) Hypatia (370?-415) Elena Lucrezia Cornaro Piscopia
(1646-1684) Emilie du Chatelet (1706-1749 Maria Gaetana Agnesi (1718-1799)
Caroline Herschel (1750-1848) Sophie Germain (1776-1831) Mary Fairfax
Somerville (1780-1872)
Nineteenth Century 1800-1819
Ada Byron Lovelace (1815-1852)
1820-1839
Florence Nightingale (1820-1910) Mary Everest Boole (1832-1916)
1840-1859
Susan Jane Cunningham (1842-1921) Elizaveta Fedorovna Litvinova (1845-1919)
Christine Ladd- Franklin (1847-1930) Sofia Kovalevskaya (1850-1891) Ellen
Amanda Hayes (1851-1930) Hertha Ayrton (1854-1923) Ida Metcalf (1857-1952)
Charlotte Angas Scott (1858-1931)
Just a few more women mathematicians.....here's a link to their bios if you
like too. Peace, Kimberly
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#186) Re: Homeschool or just home?
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Tuesday, 28 March 2000, at 1:43 a.m.
Reply To: (#180) Re: Homeschool or just home?
Author: PamS
Date: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 10:04 p.m.
: We have friends with kids
: in PS and they comment on the
: "interesting" dinner conversations
: they have; they are VERY involved with their
: kids' lives in spite of PS and have
: cultivated excellent communication lines
: with them.
This is exactly, precisely what I was gearing up to say in response to this
question! I think it can be done, but I also think most people vastly
underestimate how necessary it is to keep that constant flow of communication
going. If a parent is to compete with the opinions and influence of age-peers,
she (or he) will need to spend approximately as much time in conversation with
the kid as all the kid's friends, put together. Or that's what makes sense to
me, anyway.
And by conversation, I mean actual, friendly, meaningful conversation. Not
small talk, and not lectures.
There are many caring parents who don't always SHOW their children how much
they care.
Another thing -- what about when parents send "hidden" messages, perhaps
messages they don't even realize themselves that they are sending? I'm
imagining a mother who, let's say, sends her daughter the message that it is
extremely important to be liked by all the other kids at school. (Maybe
popularity was a big deal, for some reason, in this woman's life as a child.
Perhaps she wasn't as popular as she would have liked, or maybe she WAS
popular, and that was what mattered most to her.) Anyway, having received this
value of "popularity" from her mother, the daughter might feel a need to do
whatever it takes to be "well-liked," including wearing all the "right"
clothes, having the "right" toys, watching the "right" TV shows. And the
mother could be feeling completely bemused, wondering why these things are so
important to her daughter when she, the mom, doesn't feel she has taught these
values.
And -- let it be said -- it need not be a school situation in which these
values take hold.
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#187) Re: Women in History
AUTHOR: Annette
DATE: Tuesday, 28 March 2000, at 2:16 a.m.
Uh oh for some reason the first post didn't come through....anyway, a couple
we studied that were really good was Amelia Earhardt and Anne Frank. Also Jane
Goodall, Diane Fossey, and Joy (Born Free) Adamson...can you tell my dd wants
to be a vet when she grows up? :o)
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#188) Re: Homeschool or just home?
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Tuesday, 28 March 2000, at 9:33 a.m.
Reply To: (#186) Re: Homeschool or just home?
Author: Cerelle
Date: Tuesday, 28 March 2000, at 1:43 a.m.
: There are many caring parents who don't always
: SHOW their children how much they care.
YES, YES, YES, YES!
This is very important to know and to realize. All parents love their
children, don't they? But it's not enough to feel love. You have to know how
to show it and there lies the key! Not everyone knows how to demonstrate their
love.....buying gifts isn't the key, doing things for your children and
assuming they know you love them isn't it either!
I read a wonderful book called HOW TO REALLY LOVE YOUR CHILD. Gosh, who is the
author? The name escapes me. Ross Campbell? He wrote one on teens too. Anyhow,
it opened my eyes to this very issue. Everyone should read this book.
I know of a family with two daughters (they go to public school) that if you
looked at them from afar you would mistake them for a homeschool family.
You should see this family in action.
They have managed to maintain a family-centered lifestyle. These two girls are
very well read. The family is actively involved in hobbies (cycling,
competitive swimming, music lessons, tennis). Everyone (including mom and dad)
are always learning something. The family is in it together. One of the girls
did have some bad peer situations in late elementary school (she was being
bullied by a group of other girls) but mom and dad were there. She came away
unaffected.
This is really an exceptional family. Their "secret recipie" IS communication
and caring involvement. But it's more than just a simple talk over dinner.
It's much more than that.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#189) Re: Girls and Self Worth
AUTHOR: Lacie
DATE: Tuesday, 28 March 2000, at 2:32 p.m.
Reply To: (#156) Girls and Self Worth
Author: Giovanna
Date: Sunday, 19 March 2000, at 8:03 p.m.
A wise friend once said to me,"Kids don't get their self worth from being
involved in every activity available to them...they get their self worth from
making correct decisions."
I have come to believe this statement firmly. We need to help our children
give service to others and not be so caught up in their own wants and desires.
Doing good for someone else, even when it's difficult or may cause personal
discomfort such as going against the crowd, will make them feel good about
themselves.
You can teach them how to do small, random acts of kindness and then ask them
how they feel. Keep encouraging this type of activity and their confidence and
inner peace will expand.
Lacie
: My son (will be 8) this week was approached by
: a nine year old girl who told him she wanted
: to marry him. Cute, right?
: Well, I don't know.
: While I may have found this "cute" 5
: years ago my views have changed a lot.
: I remember when I was in middle school. The
: "in" thing was to have a
: boyfriend. Even if the
: "relationship" was nothing more
: than walking in the hallway together, the
: whole thing gave you "status".
: I could puke now just thinking about it. My
: worth and significance was SO MISPLACED!
: I want so much more than what I had for my
: daughter. Granted, my daughter will not see
: and experience a lot of the things I did
: because she is not going to school but
: homeschooling isn't the "sure
: answer" for life's problems.
: How are you encouraging healthy helpings of
: self worth in your daughters?
: Giovanna
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#190) here are a few from my list :-)
AUTHOR: Dawn
DATE: Tuesday, 28 March 2000, at 5:16 p.m.
Reply To: (#178) Women in History
Author: Dawn
Date: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 9:16 p.m.
The reason I asked is because one thing my DD's have complained about before
is the lack of women in the history books, and the few that are in there are
repeated over and over. I have made it a point to find notable women who are
not or very well represented.
Elizabeth and Emily Blackwell
Francesca Caccini
Annie Smith Peck
Fanny Cécile Mendelssohn
Harriet Quimby
Ada Lovelace
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#191) Re: Women in History
AUTHOR: dawne
DATE: Thursday, 30 March 2000, at 10:54 a.m.
Reply To: (#178) Women in History
Author: Dawn
Date: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 9:16 p.m.
My ds studied a great group of women this month. Our list is: Sojourner Truth
Harriet Tubman Rosa Parks Patricia Roberts Harris Madam CJ Walker[female
self-made millionaire] Lucy Stoner Susan B. Anthony Lucretia Mott Elizabeth
Blackwell [first female doctor in US] Sally Ride Margaret Mead Rachel Carson
Florence Henderson Bessie Coleman
I think that is all we did. Maybe a few others. Dawne
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#192) Re: Homeschool or just home?
AUTHOR: dawne
DATE: Thursday, 30 March 2000, at 11:17 a.m.
Reply To: (#174) Re: Homeschool or just home?
Author: Giovanna
Date: Monday, 27 March 2000, at 12:43 p.m.
: I see scores of girls with no individuality, no
: sense of personal style, no confidence.
: TONS! So what does this mean?
It means they see too many "fashion or women's" magazines! Or that they go in
and are spit out in neat little cubes that are easily classified.
: There are so many factors that play into this.
: More than a few books have been written
: regarding the school environment and how it
: encourages peer dependence. Some girls walk
: away unscathed by their school experiences
I'd like to meet JUST ONE. Just ONE woman who doesn't have battle scars from
the school environment. It would give me hope.
: (example: your daughters, God bless them!).
: But some (like me and many others... tons
: others, maybe the majority? they are
: everywhere I look, it seems) get reeled in
: and trapped.
Reeled in and trapped - excellent description.
: So what happened at home? Or is home totally,
: 100% responsible? Could 8+ hours per day, 5
: days a week of a certain type of environment
: actually wipe out everything that a parent
: has tried to ingrane in their daughter?
I believe it possible. We had a very similiar discussion in Psych class once.
Before ethical rules were in place for experiments an exp. was done with Bobo
the Clown. [one group of kids saw a grown up interacting with the toy in a
kind way, the other group saw the clown get "beat up".] Bobo is a Blow up
clowns that doesn't fall over when you punch him. I remember questioning just
how powerful "modeling" truly is. And I remember quite clearly being told "no
matter how perfect a parent you try to be or even if you ARE a perfect parent
your 5 years with your child at home is NOT enough protection when they get to
school". Let me add that this woman had her boys in school and didn't
homeschool or even consider it. I remembering asking if after a steady diet of
Mr. Rogers and Sesame Street if one episode of Power Rangers would undo that
and she said "it is entirely possible that even 30 min. of something can
effect your child". She drew on cases from her private practice. ANYway... I
do believe that outside forces can work against what we create in the home.
This is why parents ought to be as diligent [even when tired] as possible to
clues from the kids. Change in appetite, enthusiasm, personality or sleep
etc.., Loving discipline, [notice I did not say PHYSICAL] in the sense of
training a child, and a few firm rules seem to work really well. And lots of
cuddle time and communication.
I want to say NO and agree with you that home
: IS the where daughters get their strength of
: character.
: BUT...
: As I have read with horror the epidemic of
: youth and school violence, I don't know what
: horrifies me more.... the child/teen
: commiting the crime or the parents at a loss
: as to why their child did this.
BINGO!! In some cases the clues were obvious, IMO. Sometimes I wonder.
: What do you think?
I think parenting is an uphill battle. Call me a cynic and I'll answer ya! But
I know what I saw in 12 years public school and what I STILL see in my 14 year
old brother's ps experience. I see what tv offers and magazines. I really
think "fighting the good fight" is all we can do because "s/he who hesitates
is lost". Dawne
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#193) Re: Girls and Self Worth
AUTHOR: Elizabeth
DATE: Thursday, 30 March 2000, at 12:48 p.m.
Reply To: (#156) Girls and Self Worth
Author: Giovanna
Date: Sunday, 19 March 2000, at 8:03 p.m.
: How are you encouraging healthy helpings of
: self worth in your daughters?
: Giovanna
I am begining to replace self esteem and self worth by pulling her from
PS.(They do learn things earlier now then when I was a child.) The things that
she has had to endure this year has been apauling.for a 10 yr She realized
this and having enough self worth within her self she asked to be
homeschooled. I just hope that I can still provide enough love and
encouragement to replace what she has lost. Is she worth it? I think the real
question is am I worth it? We both are. Showing you find worth in yourself is
definately a good start to giving her self worth.
***************************************************************************
End of Part 3
Back to the Top