Digests from the KALEIDOSCAPES MONTHLY TOPIC
(HOMESCHOOLING) DISCUSSION BOARD
These are the original digests from Kaleidoscapes' MONTHLY TOPIC discussion boards.
They were hosted by two amazing gals, Giovanna Gomez and Cerelle Woods Simmons.
The boards are no longer available (thus, links to them won't work); you can, however, still
find many of the same wonderful folks who posted on the boards at Network 54.
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Hopefully you will consider shopping through our Amazon links occasionally.
(Thanks!)
Back to the Digest Index
HOMESCHOOLING GIRLS: THE JOYS AND
CHALLENGES
#3: THANK YOU Giovanna & Cerelle! (dawne)
#4: WELCOME! (Giovanna)
#5: Girls are GREAT! (Debra)
#6: What a great topic! (Joan in MN)
#7: Girls and Math... (JodyC)
#9: Adolescence, where is thy sting? (Cerelle)
#11: Re: Girls and Math... (Giovanna)
#12: Re: Girls and Math... (pat)
#13: Re: Girls and Math... (LizMessick)
#14: Re: Girls and Math... (pat)
#15: Actually.... (dawne)
#16: On the subject of those troubled "teen years" (dawne)
#17: Re: Girls and Math... (JodyC)
#18: Math and Girls (Ramona)
#20: Too soon to say, but... (Rhonda S)
#21: Re: Adolescence, where is thy sting? (Nell Walker)
#22: Re: Girls and Math... (Annette)
#24: Re: On the subject of those troubled "teen years" (Grace)
#27: Some Math fun.... (Laura in SC)
#28: as a former girl .... (Laura in SC)
#29: Margaret Mead (Amy A.)
#31: Re: Math and Girls (pat)
#32: Roar! (Deborah)
#34: Friends/How are your homeschooled girls different? (LizMessick)
#38: Re: Friends/How are your homeschooled girls differ (Cerelle)
#41: Girls...math and sports (Francie)
#42: Re: Adolescence, where is thy sting? (Peggy)
#43: That's a really good point (Cerelle)
#46: LOL! I could have written this almost. (Lee)
#52: Yippee!! Women's Herstory Month has started with a (dawne)
#53: Okay ... everyone here is happy with their girls . (Kim from sidetr)
#54: Re:The fur flies regularily around here!!! (Peggy)
#55: Re: Okay ... everyone here is happy with their gir (dawne)
#56: You are correct!! (dawne)
#58: Re: Okay ... everyone here is happy with their gir (Annette)
#59: Re:The fur flies regularily around here!!! (Mary (NY))
#61: Ha! (Lee)
#62: Re: Well ... I posted hesitantly last night ... (Kim from sidetr)
#63: Re: Well ... I posted hesitantly last night ... (Peggy)
#64: Happy NOW, but . . . (Cerelle)
#65: Re: Happy NOW, but . . . (maicie)
#66: Re: Happy NOW, but . . . (Giovanna)
#67: I laughed until tears came to my eyes! (Cerelle)
#68: YES! The value of humor is without measure (Cerelle)
#69: the ability to laugh at yourself (LizMessick)
#70: Re: Actually.... (Kathi)
#71: Star Trek obsession & when/how to do "The Talk"? (PamS)
#72: This is us too! (PamS)
#75: Book recommendation - for girls (psam ordener)
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MESSAGE: (#3) THANK YOU Giovanna & Cerelle!
AUTHOR: dawne
DATE: Tuesday, 29 February 2000, at 8:39 p.m.
I'm just loving this topic. Thanks ever so much.
I can't wait to jump into a meaty discussion on this topic. AND clever ways to
study Women's Herstory this month :-) dawne
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MESSAGE: (#4) WELCOME!
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Tuesday, 29 February 2000, at 9:38 p.m.
Reply To: (#3) THANK YOU Giovanna & Cerelle!
Author: dawne
Date: Tuesday, 29 February 2000, at 8:39 p.m.
There is so much that we can discuss with this topic. We will be having the
same topic next month but the discussion will center around boys.
I'm very much looking forward to this conversations. WELCOME EVERYONE!
Giovanna
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MESSAGE: (#5) Girls are GREAT!
AUTHOR: Debra
DATE: Tuesday, 29 February 2000, at 10:37 p.m.
WOW this is a great topic! I am so thrilled to be homeschooling girls. I am
now a Girl Scout leader and I am watching my girls enjoy many of the things
that I enjoyed when I was a girl.
Right now we are enjoying the American Girl book series. I would have LOVED
those if I had them when I was a girl.
There seems to be so many wonderful resources for girls. From Dance lessons to
Brownies to American Girl books. It is a wonderful adventure!
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MESSAGE: (#6) What a great topic!
AUTHOR: Joan in MN
DATE: Tuesday, 29 February 2000, at 11:56 p.m.
....says the mother of two daughters. :-)
When my girls were younger, people used to comment on their maturity and
behavior in public. Often, however, they would ominously add, "But just wait
until they're teenagers."
Well, my oldest turns 14 this week, and my youngest is almost 12, and I'm
*still* waiting for the other shoe to drop. This is *not* to say that we don't
have our difficult days. But I believe that our uncommonly close relationship
will sustain us through whatever challenges life chooses to toss at us.
Here's to our daughters!
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MESSAGE: (#7) Girls and Math...
AUTHOR: JodyC
DATE: Tuesday, 29 February 2000, at 11:56 p.m.
Is it just me or is math generally harder for girls? The boys (we have 4) can
always latch on to the math concepts, but the one daughter struggles at times.
She just doesn't think mathematically...neither do I, although I understand
it.
Any ideas or helps you've found? To what level of math would you recommend for
a dd who doesn't like it or care a lick about it?
BTW...she's wonderful in literature, writing and anything else that involves a
book. She also is an excellent typist and loves music.
Jody
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MESSAGE: (#9) Adolescence, where is thy sting?
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 12:10 a.m.
Reply To: (#6) What a great topic!
Author: Joan in MN
Date: Tuesday, 29 February 2000, at 11:56 p.m.
My daughters are now 21 and 17 . . . and I'm STILL waiting! :)
No generation gap here. And thank goodness, they've been spared a lot of the
pressures that modern teenage girls often endure. (I didn't say they've been
spared ALL the pressures, but it could have been sooooooo much worse.)
I feel so grateful for the closeness my daughters and I share, and I do credit
homeschooling for a good bit of that.
This should be a rewarding discussion! I'm looking forward to it, too.
Cerelle
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MESSAGE: (#11) Re: Girls and Math...
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 12:37 a.m.
Reply To: (#7) Girls and Math...
Author: JodyC
Date: Tuesday, 29 February 2000, at 11:56 p.m.
: Is it just me or is math generally harder for
: girls?
Nope. I guarantee you that there will be several here that will agree with
you.
I never did well with math. NEVER. Even to this day I have horrible
math-phobia. Looking back I know that if I had been given a lot more
manipulatives and been able to use them for a longer period I would have fared
better...but that's just me. The transition to abstract concepts did not go
smoothly for me and that's where the problem lies.
I recently saw a show on the Discovery channel that had to do with gender
differences. One of the differences discussed was that males tend to have
stronger spatial capabilities as opposed to females. The argument was that
this could be why boys seem to do better in math than girls.
I'm not sure how much of this is actually true. I don't remember the name of
the show or any other facts about this research.
BUT.....
In all of the higher math classes that my hubby took in college there were
always WAYYYY more males than females.
So what does all this mean? Are girls really not as good in math as boys?
I really don't know.
I know that my daughter (age 5) is grasping math concepts a lot faster than my
son did. And my son learned to read a lot faster than my daughter is. So are
my children the exception?
I think somewhere down the line something happens to girls and math (or maybe
boys just finally mature and catch up and "pass" girls?). Does society send
indirect negative messages regarding girls who do well with math? I think so
but is this the real reason as to why girls do not seem to go as far with math
as boys do or could it REALLY be that girls are "wired" a little different
than boys? Do their strengths lie in other areas?
Well, as you can tell I don't have many answers.... just a whole bunch more
questions. Would love to know what everyone else thinks.
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MESSAGE: (#12) Re: Girls and Math...
AUTHOR: pat
DATE: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 12:39 a.m.
Reply To: (#7) Girls and Math...
Author: JodyC
Date: Tuesday, 29 February 2000, at 11:56 p.m.
: I have a 6 yo and see also is great in reading etc. Math see does pretty
good in she has a problem with telling time other than that she is doing real
good. Maybe it is because I too and excellent in math. My dh says I have a
nature talent for math that I should use. I feel I use it very well in
teaching my children. I have heard that math and science go hand in hand, but
not for me. Also that math is a subject that boys excel in, but not one of my
sons. Also I want to say I am sooo sorry for the last post. Nothing there...
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MESSAGE: (#13) Re: Girls and Math...
AUTHOR: LizMessick
DATE: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 12:49 a.m.
Reply To: (#12) Re: Girls and Math...
Author: pat
Date: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 12:39 a.m.
My daughter (12) has been a math "natural" since she was very small. She used
to amaze me with from-the-back-seat math observations in the car, and she
loved playing around with numbers.
Yet I wouldn't term her a math whiz now. She's doing pre-algebra very
competently, but she isn't a 12yo prodigy, either.
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MESSAGE: (#14) Re: Girls and Math...
AUTHOR: pat
DATE: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 1:06 a.m.
Reply To: (#13) Re: Girls and Math...
Author: LizMessick
Date: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 12:49 a.m.
I too would not say my daughter is a whiz but she is doing good. I had to
teach her 8 year old brother the same grade for two and a half years. So with
her it seems a blessing. In fact with all her teachings. Her brother says it
is just because her work is easy, but he is only five to six months ahead of
her in math. He gets so upset. I know boys are not the topic of the month, but
I just cannot help myself. Her reading and spelling skills are grand. Once
again he is spouting off about her spelling words are easy. I think it is a
little harder for a 6yo to spell words like; grow,cold,toe. While he is
spelling words like who,why, and extra words like connect, holiday. Any
feedback for the son?
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MESSAGE: (#15) Actually....
AUTHOR: dawne
DATE: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 9:09 a.m.
Reply To: (#7) Girls and Math...
Author: JodyC
Date: Tuesday, 29 February 2000, at 11:56 p.m.
: Is it just me or is math generally harder for
: girls?
Actually I think this is a product of gender-typing. I myself am a recovering
math-phobe. Looking back now the teacher makes all the difference.
In college I HAD to do things I would have NEVER chose to do like Statistics
and Logic. To my utter amazement [having been very "liberal artish" all my
life] I found myself at the top of the class. When I spoke to my PHL prof.
about this he said that in his time as a prof. if there is a general rule of
thumb he would have to say that it is "women are generally better able to
think conceptually and in an orderly way which benefits them greatly in the
fields of math". He went on to present his premises in such elegant words I
could kick myself for not writing them down!!
Personally I think we are all different when it comes to math and our natural
gifts but tend to believe it is the environment that is the larger deciding
factor. dawne
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MESSAGE: (#16) On the subject of those troubled "teen years"
AUTHOR: dawne
DATE: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 9:17 a.m.
Reply To: (#6) What a great topic!
Author: Joan in MN
Date: Tuesday, 29 February 2000, at 11:56 p.m.
: When my girls were younger, people used to
: comment on their maturity and behavior in
: public. Often, however, they would ominously
: add, "But just wait until they're
: teenagers."
Isn't this the greatest? I mean don't we ALL want such backwards compliments!!
This gets me too when people remark on my kids being best friends as if I
should memorize EVERY moment b/c in a flash it will be gone.
ANYway...to the point lest I stray too much from topic. In prep. for Women's
Herstory Month I came across some info. on noted anthropologist Margaret Mead.
She wrote "Coming of Age in Samoa". I haven't read her book yet but I
understand that the bottom line is that not all cultures encounter this
"problem" with the teen years.
Congrats to you and your daughters!! As my young neighbor says "Girls ROCK"!
dawne
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MESSAGE: (#17) Re: Girls and Math...
AUTHOR: JodyC
DATE: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 10:10 a.m.
Reply To: (#11) Re: Girls and Math...
Author: Giovanna
Date: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 12:37 a.m.
could it REALLY be that girls are
: "wired" a little different than
: boys? Do their strengths lie in other areas?
Well Giovanna,
I DO think that girls are definately "wired" differently in many ways. I don't
feel that we have dubbed her "too girl" to do math or be good at it, but she
just doesn't care for it much.
I do heartily agree that manipulatives is a key before abstract math. I had
very little of this as a child and now that I am able to do it with my
children, I find that I have improved my basic math skills as I have
"re-learned" math from the very beginning. You might think..."What a dummy she
must be" but honestly, I didn't learn some of these "math tricks" that my kids
are learning now. I LOVE IT! Math U See has been the best thing that ever
happened to our family (and me). BTW...I did have 2 years of algebra in h.s.
and did ok, but all I did was solve the problems the way the teacher said, but
never really understood it fully.
Do any of you have any ideas on how to encourage math skills in a "fun" way?
Our family has many cribbage tourneys which uses fast mental adding. This has
been a great help.
Thanks for the response!
Jody
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MESSAGE: (#18) Math and Girls
AUTHOR: Ramona
DATE: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 10:18 a.m.
My daughter is just over 6 and she is doing excellent in math. If she fails to
understand a concept I look for another way of teaching it or wait a month and
try again. She is now doing multiplication and division. We just got a new
math game for our computer that includes a geometry game that she is currently
facinated with although computer games are not one of her interests. I
remember when she was 3 and I thought I might be pushing her because she
wasn't understanding the simple addition concept. One day not long after
explaining the concept she came into the kitchen and said"Mom did you know
4+5=9 and proceded to explain how addition works. There were some similarities
in reading as well. When phonics irritated her I switched to a sight reading
game/book and everything clicked now she can read at least to a 5th grade
level in two languages. My suggestion would be to search out teaching methods
that make sense to the individual child.
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MESSAGE: (#20) Too soon to say, but...
AUTHOR: Rhonda S
DATE: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 10:53 a.m.
Reply To: (#7) Girls and Math...
Author: JodyC
Date: Tuesday, 29 February 2000, at 11:56 p.m.
I don't expect it to hold true in our household. My dd is only 4 but has
always loved math type stuff. She loves to work on adding and subtracting,
counted to 100 at 2, accurately. (DS is 2, doesn't count to 5 the same way
twice. LOL) But then, I love math and husband is an engineer. I would be
surprised to find either of our children struggling at math. But, it could
happen.
Girls definitely think differently though, and it can mean distinctions in
math skills. No one disputes that little girls speak earlier than boys, or
that boys tend to be so active. They are just made differently. But, some
girls are great at math, and some boys very verbal.
I think girls tend to have a harder time conceptualizing. But they sure know
how to cut a cookie into fourths to share... So, my totally novice advice is
work at making the concepts real, then the abstractions will make sense and be
easier to handle. I don't think most math curriculums to an adequate job of
helping make the math real. (Even if they have to work it out by counting and
trial and error, real life math is so much less threatening than equations,
and numbers in a book. I think. Doubling a recipe, decorating a room, working
a yard sale. Low pressure real math. My dad was great at it, and I loved the
pride of figuring it out. Sometimes after I had worked out part of it, I would
be shown a trick. cool.) I plan on using Miquon, I think. But we will see.
OK I have gone on long enough, I just love math. And my kids aren't even there
yet. So I will let the experts talk.
Rhonda.
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MESSAGE: (#21) Re: Adolescence, where is thy sting?
AUTHOR: Nell Walker
DATE: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 10:55 a.m.
Reply To: (#9) Adolescence, where is thy sting?
Author: Cerelle
Date: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 12:10 a.m.
: My daughters are now 21 and 17 . . . and I'm
: STILL waiting! :)
: Cerelle
Well I know this isn't "can you top this", Cerelle :-), but my two daughters
are 44 and 41 and I have 4 grandaughters (5 to 18 years) and I'm still waiting
too. I think perhaps this is another of those myths like "girls hate math". In
fact, I have often said to folks who told me "just wait" that I think I
enjoyed my girls MORE when they were teens and we could communicate on a more
adult level than I did when they were little. I think it's all in the
relationship you establish in the earlier-than-teen years, don't you? Nell
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MESSAGE: (#22) Re: Girls and Math...
AUTHOR: Annette
DATE: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 10:57 a.m.
Reply To: (#7) Girls and Math...
Author: JodyC
Date: Tuesday, 29 February 2000, at 11:56 p.m.
I think girls are as capable as boys any ole day! :o) My dd hates math with a
capital H....but she can do it. We switched from Saxon and are using the Key
To series and what a help that has been. :
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MESSAGE: (#24) Re: On the subject of those troubled "teen years"
AUTHOR: Grace
DATE: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 2:03 p.m.
Reply To: (#16) On the subject of those troubled "teen years"
Author: dawne
Date: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 9:17 a.m.
: ANYway...to the point lest I stray too much
: from topic. In prep. for Women's Herstory
: Month I came across some info. on noted
: anthropologist Margaret Mead. She wrote
: "Coming of Age in Samoa". I
: haven't read her book yet but I understand
: that the bottom line is that not all
: cultures encounter this "problem"
: with the teen years.
Not to stray too far from the subject, but I just came across something in one
of my readings that Margaret Mead was homeschooled! :-)
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#27) Some Math fun....
AUTHOR: Laura in SC
DATE: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 4:16 p.m.
Reply To: (#17) Re: Girls and Math...
Author: JodyC
Date: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 10:10 a.m.
: Do any of you have any ideas on how to
: encourage math skills in a "fun"
: way? Our family has many cribbage tourneys
: which uses fast mental adding. This has been
: a great help.
Cribbage is great! I used to play a solitaire game, sitting at my
grandmother's feet, called 10-20-30. It required adding combinations of three
cards (standard playing deck) to add up to those numbers. I loved it when I
started seeing the combinations quicker than G'ma. :-)
We also like to do math drills with a set of double-nine dominoes. There is
every possible combination from 0-0 thru 9-9. Before playing domino, the
player has to say the sum or product of the two numbers.
Logical, systematic thinking skills are so important for math. We love the
computer game "Logical Journey of the Zoombinis". The kids don't even realize
they're doing math. Logic puzzles are also great!
HTH, Laura
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MESSAGE: (#28) as a former girl ....
AUTHOR: Laura in SC
DATE: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 4:28 p.m.
Reply To: (#7) Girls and Math...
Author: JodyC
Date: Tuesday, 29 February 2000, at 11:56 p.m.
I absolutely adored math all thru school. I was especially encouraged by my
fifth grade teacher; in fact, I dreamed about him a couple of nights ago. I
took as many math and science classes as I could thru high school, then went
on to major in Mechanical Engineering in college. As a female, I was in the
minority in my classes from about 15 years old on up.
BUT, I now realize that I was very good at following the rules, and doing
things right, without ever understanding WHY I was solving problems that way.
As I am teaching my sons, we are making use of manipulatives. They are great!!
A coulpe of weeks ago, I introduced long division with Base Ten blocks, and I
gained so much understanding!
Did you know that you can even physically show how to factor a polynomial when
you get to Algebra? I did this with a girl I was tutoring, and it was like a
light went on --- for both of us!
All this to say, I don't know how much is a girl vs boy difference, as opposed
to a learning style difference. And as homeschoolers, we have the luxury of
being able to custom tailor our teaching to best meet our students' needs. If
your daughter is struggling with math, try to go back to the concrete. Look
thru a Cuisinaire catalog --- they have lots of great products to take the
sting out of math.
HTH, Laura
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MESSAGE: (#29) Margaret Mead
AUTHOR: Amy A.
DATE: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 8:30 p.m.
Reply To: (#24) Re: On the subject of those troubled "teen years"
Author: Grace
Date: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 2:03 p.m.
One of my favorite homeschooling quotes is from Margaret Mead. I believe it
goes, "My grandmother wanted me to have an education, and so she kept me out
of school." I, too, am looking forward to this month's discussions! Amy A.
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MESSAGE: (#31) Re: Math and Girls
AUTHOR: pat
DATE: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 12:09 a.m.
Reply To: (#18) Math and Girls
Author: Ramona
Date: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 10:18 a.m.
: : I,too will either try a different approach or put it away for another
time. I do not pressure.
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MESSAGE: (#32) Roar!
AUTHOR: Deborah
DATE: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 12:14 a.m.
Reply To: (#7) Girls and Math...
Author: JodyC
Date: Tuesday, 29 February 2000, at 11:56 p.m.
Speaking, or should I say writing, as someone who was always far more
attracted to the fine arts (ie foreign language, speech tournaments,
calligraphy, reading and discussion of literature) than what I perceived to be
the sterile fields (ie engineering) associated with math, I say never discount
the ability or potential of girls in math. Whether or not I liked studying
other areas more, I cannot deny that math was always something that came to me
fairly easily. I was, frankly, annoyed when I scored a full 100 points higher
in math than English on my SAT's but not necessarily surprised. Girls and
women can and do excel in math. Try to tell any of my friends who are
engineers, accountants, or managers of the finances at home otherwise and you
might hear the mighty lionesses roar! :)
Go, girls, go!!!
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MESSAGE: (#34) Friends/How are your homeschooled girls different?
AUTHOR: LizMessick
DATE: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 12:49 a.m.
I have noticed that my daughter (12) is very different from most of the girls
she knows.
She has always been homeschooled, and has grown up very closely with a brother
and a best friend, both male, both homeschooled through age 12ish, both two
years older than she is. They grew up together virtually all the time. We have
at times had some contact with other homeschooling families, been in groups,
etc., but the two boys have been her "peer group" and best friends, and she
has never had a close female friend.
She has two female friends now, both of whom she met through mutual interests.
(One was at acting camp with her; the other is a fellow violinist.) But her
friendship with them doesn't extend much beyond those mutual interests. I
think she likes them because they take these activities seriously, enjoying
them to the fullest.
She is impatient with the "silliness" of many of the girls she knows (through
Scouts, orchestra, sports teams, etc.) It frustrates her when they are
involved in some activity (say, a rehearsal), and the others act bored.
So, some questions. How important is it (to you, and/or to your daughter) to
have close female friends, or one close female friend? Do you notice that your
daughter has little in common with girls her own age? Does it bother you if
that is the case, or are you glad? (or some of both!?)
Liz Messick
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MESSAGE: (#38) Re: Friends/How are your homeschooled girls differ
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 1:31 a.m.
Reply To: (#34) Friends/How are your homeschooled girls different?
Author: LizMessick
Date: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 12:49 a.m.
Liz, what you wrote about your daughter sure sounds familiar! When my oldest
(the one who is 21 now) was 12, she had ZERO girlfriends. ZERO! She just
didn't like girls that much, & for some of the same reasons you cited. (Too
silly, she thought -- or too shallow, or too strange.) The person she got
along with best at that age was a boy of the same age. There attraction
between them wasn't even remotely romantic, but she found it very easy to talk
to him (and vice versa, I believe). They saw each other once a week for about
2 hours, and this was practically her sole contact with anyone her age.
As I remember, I wasn't terribly different, myself. I did have one female
friend when I was 12, but I preferred the company of boys. Not until college
did I start forming close friendships with other girls (or young women, I
should say). And oddly enough, my daughter has discovered the same thing. Now
in college, she has all kinds of good buddies of the female persuasion -- for
the first time ever. She's really enjoying having "girlfriends," finally.
My second daughter, however, has always made friends easily with anyone, male
or female. She's also not quite as quick to judge. I certainly don't mean to
imply that she's indiscriminate, but she's always been more willing to
overlook differences in temperament, and as a result, she has always had more
friends.
I was just thinking the other day that it's been years since the last time I
had a "best friend" (unless you count my dear, wonderful husband). As an
adult, I seem to fall into easy friendships with lots of women whom I
genuinely like a whole lot -- but I haven't had that One Best Friend
experience in ages! I don't know that I miss it, though. Really, I'm so close
to my daughters (even though the oldest is away at school) -- I think it's
fair to say that they are my best girlfriends, at this point!
Cerelle
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MESSAGE: (#41) Girls...math and sports
AUTHOR: Francie
DATE: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 8:20 a.m.
I am the mother of a athletically talented 7 year old little girl who also
does great in math. I will never forget the day she came home from 1st grade
and told me that girls can't do math! I was appalled that someone would say
this, a boy of course, and even more apalled that she seemed to believe it.
After getting the whole story, it turns out that she had gottn 100% on a test
and the little boy was upset that she had done better than him. I guess as a
means of consoling her son, the mother told him that once the math got harder
the girls would not be able to keep up! Can you imagine?!!! I had a long talk
with my daughter about it, showed her some examples of math stuff that she
knew that was way beyond what she had ever been taught, for example negative
numbers and multiplication. I thought she understood but several times since
then, it has been about a year, has said she can't do it because she is a
girl. And around that same time she became concerned about winning against
boys in swimming. I watched her more than once throw a race when she was going
to beat a boy. We talked about it being a hollow victory for the boy if she
hadn't done her best, but she still said she should let them win or they would
be mad. I guess she has been properly socialized! These are just some of the
many reasons we chose to keep her home in January.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#42) Re: Adolescence, where is thy sting?
AUTHOR: Peggy
DATE: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 9:23 a.m.
Reply To: (#21) Re: Adolescence, where is thy sting?
Author: Nell Walker
Date: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 10:55 a.m.
How fitting that "homeschooling girls" is the topic of the MONTH. As the
parents of teenage daughters know, things get interesting as these young
ladies go thru their monthly cycles. Any discussion of how moms help their dd
cope with their changing emotions? One thing I do is keep a calendar, and so
does my daughter, so she knows where she stands. I encourage her to maintain
some objectivity when she gets to feeling blue. She is only 13 so all this is
new to her.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#43) That's a really good point
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 9:48 a.m.
Reply To: (#42) Re: Adolescence, where is thy sting?
Author: Peggy
Date: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 9:23 a.m.
Peggy, I hear you -- I've been there with 2 teenage daughters, too. (Sometimes
my poor husband would just shake his head in dismay at the 3 of us. LOL!) It's
not that we didn't get along...but sometimes we'd all get a little weepy! At
at the exact same time. ;-)
All I can really say is, keep those vitamin B levels healthy. I mean, what
else is there to do? Seriously, good nutrition is bound to make a
difference...and that's a slightly more challenging goal when our children
aren't LITTLE children anymore. We can't control their diets as easily as we
could when they were too young to drive to the store by themselves.
The up side is that it's really fun to hang out with two semi-grown-up women
in your own home. We've sure had some good times around here, the occasional
moodiness notwithstanding. I see this a lot in homeschooling families, too --
really warm relationships between mother and daughter. (Not precisely the way
I remember my own teen years, that's for sure!)
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#46) LOL! I could have written this almost.
AUTHOR: Lee
DATE: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 11:28 a.m.
Reply To: (#38) Re: Friends/How are your homeschooled girls differ
Author: Cerelle
Date: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 1:31 a.m.
Only real difference is that my oldest is not away at college yet. I have
noticed this same thing among other homeschooled girls that we know too. Maybe
being independent learners has something to do with it. Independent in more
ways than one. My younger daughter needs her one or two close friends and also
needs more of my attention in her learning activities.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#52) Yippee!! Women's Herstory Month has started with a
AUTHOR: dawne
DATE: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 3:58 p.m.
We've decided to make a book about famous women. Women who were brave and true
to the cause [Sojourner Truth, Harriet Tubman et al] and women who were
brilliant [Marie Curie, Rachel Carson] or women who reached for the glass
ceiling.
Today I read a page and half [typed] about Sojourner Truth. Then after a few
minutes he narrated back to me what he learned. At bedtime we will read her
famous speech "Ain't I a Woman".
The book will include "quotable quotes" and reports on various women. Maybe
even some pictures. Then we are going to add a bit on each grandmom [he has 4]
and why Ben thinks they are Divine Divas . They will be typed neatly and taken
to Office Depot to be bound. That is the mom's day gift this year.
First field trip tonight. The museum is having an art activity "Divine Divas".
CAN'T WAIT!!
Dawne
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#53) Okay ... everyone here is happy with their girls .
AUTHOR: Kim from sidetr
DATE: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 8:30 p.m.
my oldest is 10 next week ... No hormonal clashes at ANYONE else's house ? I'm
the only one ? =8-|
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#54) Re:The fur flies regularily around here!!!
AUTHOR: Peggy
DATE: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 9:00 p.m.
Reply To: (#53) Okay ... everyone here is happy with their girls .
Author: Kim from sidetr
Date: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 8:30 p.m.
: my oldest is 10 next week ... No hormonal
: clashes at ANYONE else's house ? I'm the
: only one ? Life is interesting around here with a 13 year old female,
although it is wearying at times, I would not trade my daughter for anything.
She is a friend for life. She has to put up with my hormones too!!!!!!
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#55) Re: Okay ... everyone here is happy with their gir
AUTHOR: dawne
DATE: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 9:01 p.m.
Reply To: (#53) Okay ... everyone here is happy with their girls .
Author: Kim from sidetr
Date: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 8:30 p.m.
My 3 year old and I clash all the time. We're too alike I suppose.
Dawne Trying to grin and bear it.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#56) You are correct!!
AUTHOR: dawne
DATE: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 9:22 p.m.
Reply To: (#29) Margaret Mead
Author: Amy A.
Date: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 8:30 p.m.
:Great memory Amy I saw this M. Mead quote and you were exactly right.
Margaret Mead: "My grandmother wanted me to have an education, so she kept me
out of school."
Here's the URL if you want to see other quotable quotes.
http://bart.northnet.com.au/~hardy/rfl/famous_homeschoolers.htm
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#58) Re: Okay ... everyone here is happy with their gir
AUTHOR: Annette
DATE: Friday, 3 March 2000, at 12:27 a.m.
Reply To: (#53) Okay ... everyone here is happy with their girls .
Author: Kim from sidetr
Date: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 8:30 p.m.
: Heck no, your not the only one...but I wasn't going to say anything until
someone else did. :o)
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#59) Re:The fur flies regularily around here!!!
AUTHOR: Mary (NY)
DATE: Friday, 3 March 2000, at 6:34 a.m.
Reply To: (#54) Re:The fur flies regularily around here!!!
Author: Peggy
Date: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 9:00 p.m.
Oh, that sounds like our household! My dd is 11--and the mood swings have been
with her for years! LOL! She isn't showing signs of puberty--yet. Add that to
my perimenopausal swings and my dh and ds are ready to "bag us up".
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#61) Ha!
AUTHOR: Lee
DATE: Friday, 3 March 2000, at 7:38 a.m.
Reply To: (#53) Okay ... everyone here is happy with their girls .
Author: Kim from sidetr
Date: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 8:30 p.m.
Seems like it's always PMS time around here. It was really bad when they were
adolescent and I was menopausal. It's surprising anybody survived.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#62) Re: Well ... I posted hesitantly last night ...
AUTHOR: Kim from sidetr
DATE: Friday, 3 March 2000, at 8:46 a.m.
Reply To: (#61) Ha!
Author: Lee
Date: Friday, 3 March 2000, at 7:38 a.m.
I didn't be the only one ! =8-0
So , ladies anything you can share on guiding a ten yr old into young
adultedness ?
Some days I'm thinking that we can't both make it until she leaves home to
take over the world ...
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#63) Re: Well ... I posted hesitantly last night ...
AUTHOR: Peggy
DATE: Friday, 3 March 2000, at 9:42 a.m.
Reply To: (#62) Re: Well ... I posted hesitantly last night ...
Author: Kim from sidetr
Date: Friday, 3 March 2000, at 8:46 a.m.
: I didn't be the only one ! =8-0
: So , ladies anything you can share on guiding a
: ten yr old into young adultedness ?
: Some days I'm thinking that we can't both make
: it until she leaves home to take over the
: world ...
One guideline I have discovered is that although my 13 yod is lovely and
stands and looks me in the eye, at 5'5", I have decided that I am still the
mommy. She and I are friends to a point, the buddy-buddy ends at the point
where she decides that she has reached the age of "ultimate enlightenment" on
a topic. Perhaps flexibility is needed, perhaps I need to hold the line. She
said she could not even imagine what it would be like to be a parent, which
made me realize that she is unable to understand why I would make the
decisions I do sometimes, eventhough I believe in trying to win her
cooperation thru discussion. She has friends, she needs me as her mother.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#64) Happy NOW, but . . .
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Friday, 3 March 2000, at 9:51 a.m.
Reply To: (#53) Okay ... everyone here is happy with their girls .
Author: Kim from sidetr
Date: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 8:30 p.m.
Kim, this is the truth. I've gotten along with my girls a lot better since
they hit adolescence. That area around 9 and 10 was kinda rough sometimes! We
did have fights and misunderstandings and hurt feelings and all that stuff.
All my friends know the story about when we were trying out Saxon math, and I
THREW THE BOOK at Ariel! (Cerelle's sordid history of abuse.)
Frankly, that story's a little bit apocryphal. It's true that I did throw a
math book at her one time, but I couldn't swear that it was the Saxon text.
She hated them all!
The year Ariel was 10, we had so much strife I threatened a few times to send
her to school. (I feel *really* awful about that now.) As I look back on
everything now -- the time I'm thinking about happened 11 years ago -- I can
see that all the problems we had then were MY FAULT. Ariel was cranky, that's
for sure, but I think I could have avoided an awful lot of the unpleasantness
we suffered by being a bit easier to deal with, myself. I guess it's something
I eventually learned, because -- as I mentioned -- the teen years went really
well.
Does anybody else here feel like they made all their mistakes on that poor
firstborn? I've heard terrible maxims all my life about parents and their
oldest children. "Kids are like pancakes. You have to throw the first one
away." Etc., etc. (I guess the only reason my parents didn't throw me away was
that I was their ONLY child. If they'd gotten rid of me, they'd have been left
without any!)
Anyway, Kim, don't feel too bad. Those were tough years at my house, too. (I
know they say girls are hitting puberty at younger and younger ages, but early
puberty runs in families, too. It skipped my generation, but my girls and both
their *grandmothers* began the big changes at around 9/10. So there you go...)
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#65) Re: Happy NOW, but . . .
AUTHOR: maicie
DATE: Friday, 3 March 2000, at 10:53 a.m.
Reply To: (#64) Happy NOW, but . . .
Author: Cerelle
Date: Friday, 3 March 2000, at 9:51 a.m.
All my friends know the
: story about when we were trying out Saxon
: math, and I THREW THE BOOK at Ariel!
: (Cerelle's sordid history of abuse.)
Oh Cerelle, I have to share this story with you.It's a little off topic.
After a difficult Saxon chapter my daughter and I were both in tears. Harsh
words had been said. To cheer us up I suggested burning that page of problems.
The old "over, done with, gone" maxim. We lit the corner and started giggling.
Well, goodness, the flame just grew and grew. I ran it into the bathroom to
throw in the toilet but the flame touched my hand and I dropped it...on the
fuzzy rug. The bathroom glasses had all been gathered and put in the
dishwasher so we gathered water into our cupped hands and started flinging.
What a smell!
My husband said this was, of course, proof to the anti-homeschooling crowd
that homeschool was indeed dangerous. Maybe so but we did end up laughing
(well, howling) and I got a new bathroom set.
Maybe this isn't off topic, after all. We've had our differences but we also
had the time and the space to work them out...rather creatively. Maicie
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#66) Re: Happy NOW, but . . .
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Friday, 3 March 2000, at 11:13 a.m.
Reply To: (#65) Re: Happy NOW, but . . .
Author: maicie
Date: Friday, 3 March 2000, at 10:53 a.m.
: My husband said this was, of course, proof to
: the anti-homeschooling crowd that homeschool
: was indeed dangerous. Maybe so but we did
: end up laughing (well, howling) and I got a
: new bathroom set.
Oh my gosh! This is the funniest thing I've read in a long time. It's
wonderful! You know, I bet this is something your children are going to
remember forever with fondness.
Humor does tend to pacify and ease even the roughest of situations. I think
humor is definitely one of the key "weapons" in overcommng those rough periods
when you think you and your daughter live on two different planets and you
can't see eye to eye.
Giovanna
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#67) I laughed until tears came to my eyes!
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Friday, 3 March 2000, at 11:15 a.m.
Reply To: (#65) Re: Happy NOW, but . . .
Author: maicie
Date: Friday, 3 March 2000, at 10:53 a.m.
Maicie, that's the best (& funniest) homeschooling story I've heard in ages! I
might have to use that in the talk I'm giving later this month (about how to
become a more relaxed homeschooler).
I also HAD to forward it to Ariel, who will love it, I know! Ha ha ha! (I
loved your husband's comment about the "dangers" of homeschooling. Oh my word,
that's funny!)
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#68) YES! The value of humor is without measure
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Friday, 3 March 2000, at 11:38 a.m.
Reply To: (#66) Re: Happy NOW, but . . .
Author: Giovanna
Date: Friday, 3 March 2000, at 11:13 a.m.
Good job, Giovanna, for pointing this out. I don't know where I'd be today if
I didn't have a well-developed sense of humor. In the loony bin, probably!
I'm reminded of something I once read by the great Erma Bombeck. She said a
woman had to written to her from prison, where she was incarcerated for
killing one (or more -- I don't remember now) of her own children. She told
Bombeck that she'd been reading her humor column in prison, and that IF SHE
HAD KNOWN that she could experience the normal everyday problems that come up
in family life as FUNNY (instead of infuriating and stressful), she might not
have been driven to the desperate act that took her child's life. Now that's
some testimonial for humor, isn't it?
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#69) the ability to laugh at yourself
AUTHOR: LizMessick
DATE: Friday, 3 March 2000, at 2:48 p.m.
Reply To: (#68) YES! The value of humor is without measure
Author: Cerelle
Date: Friday, 3 March 2000, at 11:38 a.m.
I think that having the ability to laugh at yourself AND teaching your
children how to laugh at themselves is valuable beyond measure.
So many of the mistakes I made as a young mother had their roots in taking
myself way too seriously.
I LOVE the math-burning story! That one should go down in the annals of
homeschooling history!
Liz
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#70) Re: Actually....
AUTHOR: Kathi
DATE: Friday, 3 March 2000, at 5:31 p.m.
Reply To: (#15) Actually....
Author: dawne
Date: Wednesday, 1 March 2000, at 9:09 a.m.
Any suggestions for curing a math-phobe since you've been there/done that? My
daughter appeared to be a math-natural as a preschooler (She could add and
subtract in her head as long as the biggest number in the problem was about 50
or less) She was in private kindergarten and public first grade before
homeschooling. She can still add and subtract in her head but, gets extremely
agitated at having to subtract as part of a math lesson. I would quit worrying
about the writing it down thing except that she must do the standardized
tests. I was pointing out to her each time she used math to problem solve in
the hope that she would realize she was capable of doing math. In 2 weeks, I
had her trained not to figure out the math problems that just came up in her
everyday life. I quit that strategy really quick! Any other suggestions?
: Actually I think this is a product of
: gender-typing. I myself am a recovering
: math-phobe. Looking back now the teacher
: makes all the difference.
: In college I HAD to do things I would have
: NEVER chose to do like Statistics and Logic.
: To my utter amazement [having been very
: "liberal artish" all my life] I
: found myself at the top of the class. When I
: spoke to my PHL prof. about this he said
: that in his time as a prof. if there is a
: general rule of thumb he would have to say
: that it is "women are generally better
: able to think conceptually and in an orderly
: way which benefits them greatly in the
: fields of math". He went on to present
: his premises in such elegant words I could
: kick myself for not writing them down!!
: Personally I think we are all different when it
: comes to math and our natural gifts but tend
: to believe it is the environment that is the
: larger deciding factor. dawne
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#71) Star Trek obsession & when/how to do "The Talk"?
AUTHOR: PamS
DATE: Friday, 3 March 2000, at 8:06 p.m.
Reply To: (#53) Okay ... everyone here is happy with their girls .
Author: Kim from sidetr
Date: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 8:30 p.m.
My oldest dd is 10 next week too (March 9)!
I just keep telling myself it's too early for hormones, but I guess I can't
put off the inevitable . . . Usually I can talk her out of her moods or just
sympathize with whatever it is that's particularly rough at the moment. It's a
hard age--sometimes she's still a little girl, dressing her dolls and running
around the block; other times she seems so grown-up. Sometimes she gets up
early and starts in on her schoolwork before breakfast (!) but most times I
need to keep her on track. She's very day-dreamy, but she's always been so.
She has recently developed an obsession with Star Trek and watches tapped
episodes at every TV opportunity, which is quite strange and I have no idea
why.
My 7yo dd is a very strong-willed sort with whom I struggle much more for
control--not bad or unpleasant struggles, but she is charming and creative and
lazy and often I find she has finessed her way around me YET AGAIN and is
lying on the floor playing with her animals instead of doing her addition
problems. I foresee a much more intense time with her when she hits adolesense
(sp?).
I finally talked to the girls about the monthly cycles last week--(they've
been very sheltered)--They were both quite stunned at this "gross!" thing that
will be happening to them. This is as far as we've gone in "sex ed." I'd like
to hear others' plans/experiences in this area.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#72) This is us too!
AUTHOR: PamS
DATE: Friday, 3 March 2000, at 8:15 p.m.
Reply To: (#46) LOL! I could have written this almost.
Author: Lee
Date: Thursday, 2 March 2000, at 11:28 a.m.
Each of my 2 dds has one friend with whom they play once or twice a week;
otherwise they play together. They take ballet lessons and are sometimes the
only ones in their class who listen carefully and take their dance lessons
seriously; they get very annoyed with the girls who giggle and don't pay
attention. When a child acts inappropriately (in church, for example), they
are pretty much astounded and there is much discussion afterwards about "that
boy" or whoever it was and the misbehavior and the consequences (or lack
thereof). It is a shock to them that not all families have the same rules of
conduct that we have!
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#75) Book recommendation - for girls
AUTHOR: psam ordener
DATE: Friday, 3 March 2000, at 11:48 p.m.
This was written by Susan O'Neal, a friend from another list, who gave me
permission to pass it on. I have only boys, but those of you with girls may
find this useful:
"I just found the coolest book at the library yesterday. It was out in a
display and the cover looked interesting. It is subtitled 'A Handbook of the
Best Resources for Strong, Confident, Creative Girls; Exploring & Adventuring,
Inventing &Experimenting, Creating & Expressing, Building Teams & Making
Change, Learning, Earning & Interning' by Charlotte Milholland. It has a blurb
by Mary Pipher, Ph.D., author of 'Reviving Ophelia'; "An informative and
important guide. This book will connect girls and their families to what is
good and beautiful in the culture."
I started flipping through it today and it is incredible. It is full of
wonderful things and is definitely one of those books that goes in the, "I
wish I had that when I was a teen" list. The points I like the most are lots
of first person discussions of tons of women about what they do and how they
found out about it and tried different options. It offers lots of descriptions
of different opportunities and the contact information. In each chapter there
is also a list of books that include women doing these things. It is filled
with little areas telling about women who have made strides in the different
areas. This is a definite must have resource book as it broadens the horizons
for different options, lots of things I hadn't even heard of or thought of.
ISBN 0-7868-8109-7 400+ pages $14.95"
***************************************************************************
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