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Delight Directed Learning
Digest (part 1)
MESSAGE: **WELCOME EVERYONE!** AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 7:56 a.m. I'm very excited about this month's topic and I know Cerelle is as well. There is much I can share about delight directed learning because I've seen first hand how easily children can flourish when left to their own devices. I'm eager to get started!!!!! Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Great topic! AUTHOR: Susan M DATE: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 8:24 a.m. I have seen how well this type of learning works recently in my family. For years we have been trying to learn Spanish. My older son (now 16) had no particular interest in Spanish, but knew he needed to learn a language for college application requirements, so we slogged along in Spanish, with very little progress. However, my son's interest in Japan has been steadily growing, begun by an interest in Japanese animation, I think. Our town has a sister city in Japan and a student exchange program. The ideas of spending a month in Japan began to excite him. We went to the library and checked out books and tapes on Japanese. Without any prodding on my part, this son has been spending two hours a day studying Japanese on his own, armed with tapes, books, and making his own flash cards. I am simply astounded! But he is doing it for a goal that is important to him, not just for some nebulous college requirement. It is really exciting. Susan M ======================================== MESSAGE: help with interest learning AUTHOR: Chris DATE: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 9:28 a.m. Hi.I have been stuggling with this for sometime. We started homeschooling 1 yr. ago. My 8 yr. old daughter is naturally a interest led learner. My problem is with my two boys 11 & 13. I realize that it is more of a problem for them, because they were in school for so long. But what can I do to help them ? My oldest wants me to assign him work, but then he often doesn't want to do all of it. I also wonder, if this will hurt him from developing his own interests in learning. He is reading a book on the Vietnam War, but I have no idea what he is getting from it. I suggested that he write two sentences a day on what he was learning. He didn't want to do that. he said, "I thought you said I could do what I wanted." My husband asked that he read about the conflict in Kosovo, and write a couple of sentences daily, but that upsets him. I worry that they aren't learning enough. What kind of expectations can I have for them. Both boys do not write on a daily basis. They are suppose to write in their journal but usually only do it a couple times a week. I think they need to be writing more. How do I encourage them to explore their intersts. I tell them this is the beauty of homeschool, but I don't feel they know how to do it. thanks for any suggestions. ======================================== MESSAGE: Clarification, please? AUTHOR: Laura in SC DATE: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 9:30 a.m. I'd like to know what is meant by "delight directed learning". Is it necessarily unschooling? Or can it be a matter of the child choosing a topic and the parent establishing certain minimum requirements? In our five years of homeschooling, we have run the gamut from very structured to unschooling to unit studies chosen by mom to unit studies chosen by student. We are now what I'd call eclectic. I am not a slave to scope and sequence, but I am concerned about major gaps if I left my son totally to his own choosing. I'll be reading with interest! Laura ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: help with interest learning AUTHOR: Kim from sidetracks DATE: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 9:56 a.m. Response To: help with interest learning Author: Chris Date: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 9:28 a.m. H>e is > reading a book on the Vietnam War, but > I have no idea what he is getting from > it. I suggested that he write two sentences > a day on what he was learning. He didn't > want to do that. he said, "I thought > you said I could do what I wanted." Ahhh... the mom of a non-writer... (takes one to know one ! ;-) Well- if the idea is prove what he knows or has learned... that doesn't HAVE to be writing. It has to be PROOF of what he has learned. I'll bet the boys are imiginative and can come up with ways to do that. Some ideas that I've heard of for creative book reports- making mobiles, drawing pictures, making quilts with a block for each chapter, etc. etc. There is a book out there- but I can't remember the name. I'm sure that other moms here will have great ideas about that ! ======================================== MESSAGE: A definition longer than you probably wanted AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 10:26 a.m. Response To: Clarification, please? Author: Laura in SC Date: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 9:30 a.m. > I'd like to know what is meant > by "delight directed learning". > Is it necessarily unschooling? > Or can > it be a matter of the child choosing > a topic and the parent establishing > certain minimum requirements? Delight directed learning is exactly what is sounds. Learning that is motivated or "directed" by interests. Let me quote here from my favorite book, WISDOM'S WAY OF LEARNING by Marilyn Howshall. "To delight in something is to take a high degree of pleasure or satisfaction of mind in something. Delight is of a permanent nature as opposed to fun, or a sudden burst of joy which lasts for the moment." "The child's personal interests in life should not be looked upon as having mere fringe educational benefits but should be recognized as central to his development. These interests can give direction to his future studies and provide current opportunities for rich spiritual lessons. Likewise, a parent can draw from the child's interests for the content needed to develop his language skills. As one interest is allowed to develop, it will begin a natural overflow into other areas of interest and into a more mature expression as the child develops. YOU WILL NOT REAP A LEARNING DELIGHT IN YOUR CHILDREN IF YOU ATTEMPT TO PREMATURELY EXPECT ALL THEIR ACTIVITIES TO YIELD A POLISHED PRODUCT. Quality products that are a true outgrowth of the child's learning pursuits require more time to surface." ....... In other words, delight directed learning requires PATIENCE on the part of the adult. When a child is truly, truly interested in something it may take YEARS (as in our case) to truly satisfy his/her curiosity. But the end product is wonderful! The child becomes almost like a little "expert" on whatever it is that interests him. Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: help with interest learning AUTHOR: Sunny Hicks DATE: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 10:29 a.m. Response To: Re: help with interest learning Author: Kim from sidetracks Date: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 9:56 a.m. One good way I've found to stimulate interest in any subject is to demonstrate an intense interest in it myself. For instance, I truly love our science experiments and look forward to every Friday afternoon (experiment time). We invite all the public-school kids in the neighborhood to join us. One young lady never misses this opportunity! Her older sister comes to retrieve her at 5 just so that she can join in as well. If you are expecting your child to enjoy writing, then perhaps you must seem to enjoy it yourself. One idea would be to join in fun writing assignments with your children. Expect each child to write at his/her own level on the same topic. It could be the Viet Nam War, Kosovo, Easter, the true meaning of Winnie-the-Pooh's outlook on life, or absolutely anything else under or beyond the sun. The important thing is your own participation/example. Once the papers are written, have everyone switch papers and read them (no making fun allowed!!). A couple of other suggestions: 1. 2 pages/week at age 11 is wimpy. Let him know that. Little boys HATE the word "wimpy." 2. If you are having trouble thinking up topics for writing assignments, Frank Schaffer produces excellent workbooks which are available by snailmail at minimal expense. If you really want to focus on writing (Warning: This is very structured and time-intensive), then look into National Writin Institute's series on writing. I hope this helps. ======================================== MESSAGE: Delight vs. demand AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 11:15 a.m. Response To: help with interest learning Author: Chris Date: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 9:28 a.m. Hi, Chris! I really can't do justice to your post with just one response -- you've brought up so many thorny questions and issues, we may be discussing them all month. ;-) BUT -- here are the thoughts that popped to the surface when I read your message. You wrote: "My problem is with my two boys 11 & 13. I realize that it is more of a problem for them, because they were in school for so long. But what can I do to help them?" You're exactly right. The longer a child is in school, the more difficult it becomes for him to separate learning (or true education) from teacher-determined classroom activities. What we -- the parents -- have to remember is that WE sometimes have a hard time keeping those two things separate, too. After all, we were in school much longer than our kids. So we must be very honest with ourselves. What do WE consider valid education? Is it only when the textbooks are open and the little hands are writing, writing, writing? Is this education? Sometimes, we believe with one part of our minds that education goes beyond textbooks and notebook paper, but with another part of our minds we still subscribw to the ideas that were hammered into us during 12+ years of being in the classroom, doing what the teachers told us to do. It's extremely difficult to let go of that and think about learning in a new way. "My oldest wants me to assign him work, but then he often doesn't want to do all of it." Sure. He's used to assignments, used to someone else determining what he'll study, used to someone else taking the RESPONSIBILITY for what he will or won't learn today, this week, this year. He wants you to be responsible for directing his education. But that doesn't mean he necessarily wants to do what you tell him to do, even though he's asking you to tell him what to do! It's a paradox, isn't it? I used to have these battles sometimes with my oldest daughter (the only one who ever went to school), so I know what you're going through. But parents practice a few paradoxes of their own. Here's one: We'll say, "Now listen, I want you to be an independent learner, so get with it and start learning stuff you're interested in." And then we veto what the kid decides to learn about because it doesn't match OUR perception of a valid academic subject. Sound familiar? We have a little Catch-22 of our own going! We want them to be interested in reading Homer, keeping a journal every day, learning French, and memorizing the periodic table. Ha! Nothing less will do. So both sides of this parent-child alliance have some readjusting to do, some changes to make in the old thought processes. "He is reading a book on the Vietnam War, but I have no idea what he is getting from it. I suggested that he write two sentences a day on what he was learning. He didn't want to do that." Do you honestly think you could get an idea of what he's learning from this book by having him write 2 sentences about it each day? Surely he's learning much, much more than 2 sentences' worth! The way to REALLY find out what he's learning from the book is to discuss the Vietnam War with him. The goal is not just for him to learn a few selected historical facts about the war -- the goal is to able to DO something with those facts: discuss them, apply them to other situations, compare them to other people's ideas, etc., etc. So you begin to have discussions with him that require analysis and synthesis. You ask him if he's learned anything about the Vietnam War that bears on the current situation in Kosovo. He may say he doesn't really understand the situation in Kosovo. And you ask him if the Americans living during the war in Vietnam really understood THAT situation while it was happening. Yes or no? What does he think? Is it important to understand the history and politics behind military actions as they're being played out, based on his understanding of our involvement in Vietnam? Your job is not to tell him what to think, but to require that he begin to think...for himself! "He said, 'I thought you said I could do what I wanted.'" Well, good point. Did you mean it or didn't you? :-) I believe it's perfectly OK to say, "Actually, I meant it up to a point, but there are limits to my comfort zone. I think it's important for everyone to write everyday, and I'm going to require that from you, because otherwise I couldn't live with myself as a parent." I think it's extremely important to be honest with our kids. Of course we have certain ideas about what we believe is vital to a good education. Of course we do! We need to recognize that and come clean about it. We also need to examine our educational beliefs and put them to the test, so that we're not spouting illogical ideas without even thinking about them very hard. "Both boys do not write on a daily basis. They are suppose to write in their journal but usually only do it a couple times a week. I think they need to be writing more." Well, you the right to insist on the things you think are important. Children have a way of understanding and cooperating with the rules that we consider life-and-death. I always use the example of seatbelts. In our family, there was never any QUESTION about whether or not our kids would wear their seatbelts in the car. We absolutely expected total compliance with the seatbelt rule...and we got it! There was never any arguing or complaining or any thought of bucking the system, because we MEANT BUSINESS! Why were we so firm about seatbelts? Because we believed it was a matter of life and death. And the kids never resented it...they still buckle up with delight. Seriously! I suppose there are certain educational attitudes I hold nearly as sacred as seatbelts. My kids know it and over the years, they've internalized these attitudes, too. They don't mind it if I insist on 10 minutes of freewriting every day, because they know how important I think it is to be a fluent writer. If you're very sure in your heart of hearts that what you're requiring is reasonable, fair, and important to your child, then I think it's OK to go ahead and require it. Just be sure you know WHY you're requiring it. If you want your kids to write 2 sentences a day, be able to answer the question, "Why?" "How do I encourage them to explore their intersts. I tell them this is the beauty of homeschool, but I don't feel they know how to do it." They do and they don't, probably. I always like to turn this question around and challenge the parents to acknowledge the fact that their children are probably exploring some interests right now this minute, but those interests may not be things that the parents recognize as "academic." One thing that often happens when we make a commitment to delight-directed learning is that we parents find out that EVERYTHING is academic -- that is, everything can lead to academic activities and discoveries. Once we stop fighting it and begin to put it to work for us, we find out how valuable ANY interest can be. I think most of us eventually strike a balance we can live with -- one in which we may demand certain things from our kids (the things we insist upon insisting upon, if you know what I mean), but also leave them plenty of room and time to explore on their own. As I said in the beginning, though, there's a LOT to talk about here. I'll look forward to reading what others have to say. Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: not too long at all! AUTHOR: Laura in SC DATE: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 1:06 p.m. Response To: A definition longer than you probably wanted Author: Giovanna Date: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 10:26 a.m. Thanks, Giovanna. So, do I have this right? Delight directed learning is NOT unschooling. It is NOT flitting from one momentary fascination to another. It IS allowing a student to totally immerse himself in a subject of interest. It IS the student's depth of knowledge and application of the subject maturing along with the student. It MAY include the parent using that subject as a jumping off point to develop skills in academic subjects that may not seem to be directly related. If I can put this into my own words, I can better relate it to my husband. Is it close? Laura ======================================== MESSAGE: Why delight directed learning works AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 1:17 p.m. Response To: not too long at all! Author: Laura in SC Date: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 1:06 p.m. > > > Delight directed learning is NOT > unschooling. It is NOT flitting from > one momentary fascination to another. Well, some people educate like this exclusively so it can be "unschooling" if you wanted it to be. > > It IS allowing a student to totally > immerse himself in a subject of interest. > It IS the student's depth of knowledge > and application of the subject maturing > along with the student. Very good! > It MAY include the parent using > that subject as a jumping off point > to develop skills in academic subjects > that may not seem to be directly related. > Sure. For example, when my son's fascination on space exploration developed we used easy reading books from the library (the LET'S READ AND FIND OUT ABOUT SCIENCE series) on space topics as his "readers". He read these aloud and because the subject matter interested him so much he read with lots of pleasure. So he got a lot of reading practice on something that was purposeful for him. He wasn't reading about Dick and Jane, you see? Delight-directed learning can be sort of like a unit study in a way as long as the student has control. Once mom gets in there and takes over then it's really not the child's interest any more. Do you know what I mean? > If I can put this into my own words, > I can better relate it to my husband. > Is it close? You are right on, Laura! :-) Do you know why delight-directed learning works? Because "delight" is about internal motivation. When a child (or anyone for that matter) is truly interested in a topic THEY WILL LEARN! As parents though we have to give our child the freedom and TIME to run with the topic. Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Why delight directed learning works AUTHOR: Laura in SC DATE: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 6:07 p.m. Response To: Why delight directed learning works Author: Giovanna Date: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 1:17 p.m. > Delight-directed > learning can be sort of like a unit > study in a way as long as the student > has control. Once mom gets in there > and takes over then it's really not > the child's interest any more. Do you > know what I mean? I'm not sure about this..... Does mom have no input at all into what is required? Is it legit to ask for some sort of report or presentation, of the student's choosing? I know that I could do whatever I want to --- it's our school --- but I'm not sure I'd be "legally" doing delight directed learning. Is there a good book (other than WWOL)that sums up delight directed learning? Thanks, Laura ======================================== MESSAGE: Is this an example? AUTHOR: Debbie D. DATE: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 8:52 p.m. This is our first year to homeschool. We began in September of last year with our 10yob and 8yob (we also have a 3yob). I'd like to know if what my two sons did recently is an example of "delight directed learning" and if I responded to it appropriattely. We recently purchased a used set of encycopedias ('got tired of boys asking questions about something and not having immediate access to learning more about it at the moment they were interested!). Anyway, the day after the encyclopedias arrived, my 1oyob (who normally doesn't want to do much of anything school-related) asked me first thing that morning if he could do a report and a project about eagles (he has always loved and been quite interested in these grand birds). Well, after I picked my chin up off the floor (discreetly, mind you!), I said absolutely and informed that not only could he do it, but he could spend the bulk of our hsing morning working on that special project. He was thrilled and I was thrilled because he wanted to "do" school for once. A couple of times over the next 2 days he would ask me how he should do something and I would give only the amount of information I felt he truly needed from me but encouraged and expected him to do the majority of the work on his own (hoping it wouldn't detract from his initial enthusiasm for the task). Anyway, he finished both his report and project and although they weren't "brilliant" works, I had never been prouder of him than at that moment. And by the way, after watching his older brother with our new books and his project, my 8yob announced that he wanted to do a project and report on whale sharks! Someone catch me before I faint.... ======================================== MESSAGE: I'll SAY it is! :-) AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 9:11 p.m. Response To: Is this an example? Author: Debbie D. Date: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 8:52 p.m. Yes, Debbie, that sounds like the real McCoy, all right. Isn't it wonderful when that happens? It's interesting that you'd just bought a used encyclopedia set -- I think that's an important part of the story, because it demonstrates how helpful (and effective) it can be to have good resources and plenty of interesting stimuli available. We rely heavily on the library to provide our family with new materials, ideas, and directions, but we've always treasured our encyclopedias, too, as well as our dictionaries and other references. To me, these are a much more important part of our homeschooling environment than any curriculum I could buy. Congratulations, Debbie! You've just seen the principle in action! Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Loving what they learn.... AUTHOR: Mary DATE: Tuesday, 6 April 1999, at 5:30 a.m. I think Cerelle got it just right when she mentioned they don't always study what we think they should. I am so thankful for mh dh. I will get frustrtated that my boys aren't doing what they should academically according to my plans. He will quickly remind me that he did not do what was according to plan in school either- he will quickly remind me that it is not JUST about academics but that our sons are at home, able to learn about life from parents who love them, listen to them and have allowed them to learn how to think. As bizarre as that sounds to some people it is a great foundation for a real life education. It allows them the time to read about and investigate what they are interested in and there are some things that they must learn to understand what they love better. It is a great motivator. My oldest has never been a big writer but always has been a big talker. The last few years he started writing. I knew he had the potential from listening to him talk all these years. I didn't have to have him tested because I was listening to him all the time! His spelling is almost always correct and yet we did not do tons of spelling tests or studying spelling. We did read though, lots of it. And before he could read on his own I read to him what he wanted to hear and what I was into. One more point. I have two sons. One loves to get excited about stuff. THe other tends not to show it. I have had to teach myself to not take it personal. I let them study the stuff they really want to and they are willing to go along with me and study the stuff I do. We fill in with the necessities and go from there. It can get a little nerve wracking when they get older. HOW WILL THEY GET INTO COLLEGE if they don't know the stuff. Well, no one said they couldn't learn if you followed Delight Learning. Quite the contrary. Myself and many others spent 12+ years getting A's and excelling only to end that part of our lives and simply forget what we did not need. My boys study what they really like and they remember it. Yes, it takes longer, sometimes we don't cover what they are covering in school in a year. WE STOP WHEN WE ARE ENJOYING A SUBJECT. SOMETIMES WE SPEND YEARS ON IT! I happen to love it. If my kids want to go to college someday they will use the same method to get there and I have no doubt whatsover that they will acheive whatever they set out to do. I also believe they may not want to go to college but will pursue a field and excel at it. ======================================== MESSAGE: Mom's Delight! AUTHOR: Mary DATE: Tuesday, 6 April 1999, at 5:41 a.m. This one was my delight but I was so delighted that everyone else was too! I happen to love the bird- "The Great Blue Heron". This week-end my husband, boys and I travelled to a park that has a Heron Rookery. For those who don't know, Herons nest in colonies high up in the trees. It was as good as Christmas for me. I have no words that describe it but we are going to continue to return since the Herons had begun their return when we were there. Wish you could have all been there! We counted 70 nests and there were more. These are huge birds and of course their nests are really big. MY POINT IS HOMESCHOOOLING SHOULD NOT BE DRUDGERY. When it becomes so for me, I have to take a break and figure it out. Not that some things just must be done, but I don't like my motivation to be checking a chore off my list. I like to see the fire ignited in my child's heart. Have fun as a person and a Mom or Dad. In other words, continue to take delight in the things you enjoy! Mary ======================================== MESSAGE: How it works around here AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Tuesday, 6 April 1999, at 6:38 a.m. Response To: Re: Why delight directed learning works Author: Laura in SC Date: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 6:07 p.m. > > I'm not sure about this..... Does > mom have no input at all into what is > required? Oh yes, of course you can have input. Did you read Cerelle's post titled "Delight vs Demand?" If you didn't please read it. The kind of input, however, is not necesarily to ask your child to write a paper about what he is learning. Sometimes in our effort to want to "prove" that learning is taking place, we completely succeed at taking "delight" out of learning. Let me tell you a story about what happened in our house. Let me warn you though... it's long! :-) For my son's preschool year I poured over catalogs looking for that "perfect" curriculum. Once I thought I had found it I purchased it only to throw it out 1/3 of the way through. My son would yawn and be totally bored with it. It did teach my son certain facts but nothing that we did seem to excite him. The learning process had become very tedious. I realized then that something was very wrong. This is not the pictured I had envisioned. I realized that I needed educate myself more than anything at that point. So I did. I began to read books, ask questions, talk to people. Meanwhile, my husband decided that it was absolutely CRUCIAL that he take his four year old son to see the STAR WARS movies that had, at that time, been re-released in the theaters. My son loved those movies and decided he wanted to learn everything he could about SPACE. So we took off to the library and read and read and read. My husband took him out with the telescope. We watched videos, learned about the solar system. I never "tested" him to see if he was learning. It was very obvious!!!! He talked about it ALL the time. His curiousity with this subject didn't end there. He was hungry to know more. "Mom", he said to me one day, "I don't want to learn about the planets any more. I want to learn about the rockets and the first astronauts." So back to the library we went. As we read books about space exploration we kept running into a name---John F. Kennedy. My son finally asked who this man was and I explained that he was the president at the time the first American rockets were launched into space. With that came a whole bunch of other questions. "What is a president and what does he do?" So back to the library we went. We read about presidents and their job. I found an old poster of the presidents and put it on the wall. My son kept wondering who the first president was and why he "looked funny." I explained that back then people used to dress different. That wasn't enough for him though. He then asked me to read to him a biography of every president in order. He was five years old then. We are still reading about presidents around here and that has led to a deep interest in the history of American history. So we have also been learning about that--but we went back to the very beginning.... Leif Ericson, Christopher Columbus, the Pilgrims. We've been reading some really neat books. My son became so fascinated with these topics that he decided to make "NOTEBOOKS". Currently he has a SPACE notebook in which he keeps newspaper clippings of NASA events and rocket launches, his mission patch collection and little reports he has written about space. He also has an American history notebook in which he keeps pictures of important people in history and writes a little about them. He also has an ancient Egypt notebook because that's his latest passion but I'll tell you about that some other time. I'm still not done explaining what else he has learned just because he liked the Star Wars movies. While we were learning about space exploration, my son got very interested "firsts". So when we got to Apollo 11, my son got really interested in that first footprint in the moon. Then he started to notice other "footprints" and that launched us into learning about animal tracks. That was neat and still something that we continue to learn about even now. Now my son is seven. Yes, he is still interested in space, rockets, NASA. He knows a lot about this type of stuff for a child his age. You can say he has become a "tiny expert" in his field of interest. :-) He is saving all of his nickles to go to SPACE CAMP. He is still working on his Space Notebook. We've recently read about the history of astronomy much to his delight. He reads extremely well and I know that was mostly propelled by his desire to read about what is going on over at NASA. Reading had a definite purpose for him. There were things he needed to know about! ;-) We never did read about Dick and Jane. We've been reading from real books since Day One. So what else have we been learning about? We have also been learning about all kinds of explorers--not just space explorers. This is another interest area that has branched off from all of this. Have you ever read the story of Magellan? Fascinating! We are getting ready to learn about Lewis and Clark as well. Did I push him to learn any of these things? No, I didn't have to. Do I push him to work on his notebook? NO! He doesn't work on them every day but when he does he is very happy. So just how involved am I in this whole process? Well, basically I am very involved because I'm the one who drives to the library and when my son couldn't read I had to read aloud all of the books... and I still read to him a lot. I was the one who suggested that he keep a notebook. But that's all I did! I just suggested and he took off with it. Basically you can say that I'm involved in this process as a LEARNER as well and I think that has been the biggest key to our success. I knew nothing about NASA or the history of space exploration but you could say that my son has taught me everything he knows. :-) So here is an example of delight-directed learning. No it doesn't mean that mom is "hands off" but it does mean that the child is mostly in charge of his education. I'm here to serve as a guide (because at age 4, 5, 6, 7 you obviously do not know certain things) and as his partner in learning. I had to help learn to read. Has my son become an independent learner? Yes he has. I have achieved the goal I set out to do. I wanted my son to become a lover of learning and he has. Granted, there are many more things in life he must learn but I have complete confidence that he will learn them. Look at how much we have accomplished so far!!!! And HE CAN READ WELL AND ADD AND SUBTRACT TOO!!! :-) If I had said, "Today we will learn about Thomas Jefferson" I doubt my son would have been so excited. But it's like the quote I posted in my previous message. QUALITY PRODUCTS TAKE TIME! You can't rush these things. You must allow time and freedom in your home for a child to pursue their interests. There was a process to what happened in our home and I needed to let that process unfold. If I had stepped in and said, "Ok well, the scope and sequence says you have to learn about community helpers so we can't be reading so much about rockets," I would have stopped the chain of events that led to all of knowledge my son has acquired. And let me tell you something else...I am not as impressed with how much he knows. I am mostly impressed with the joy and delight he has learned it with. I've never had to push him, plead, fight, yell and scream. This has all come out of his heart. It's his passion, you could say. He has this silly idea that learning is very fun. Now, this is what delight-directed learning is all about! If you are looking for a formula to follow there isn't one. Around here much of what we do is based on trial and error. I don't feel too bad about that because even in public schools there is much trial and error. Educational philosophies come and go all the time. I can tell you though that it is better to take off the "teacher hat" and put on a learner hat and learn right along with your children. That's one thing I've learned out of this whole thing. Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Oh yes! Delight is extremely contagious! AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Tuesday, 6 April 1999, at 7:19 a.m. Response To: Mom's Delight! Author: Mary Date: Tuesday, 6 April 1999, at 5:41 a.m. Mary, thank you for saying this: > This one was my delight but I was > so delighted that everyone else was > too! That is definitely how I've seen it work in our house, time and again. What I've noticed is that the children "catch" interests from each other, from me, from their dad...and we, the parents, find ourselves getting interested in their stuff, too. When someone is truly in love with a subject -- enthusiastic and passionate and excited about it -- the energy gets passed along to everyone in the vicinity! Another thing that happens is that all the family members begin to keep an eye out for each other's interests. Laurel brings home magazine articles about things Hunter has been studying, and vice versa. If Hunter's at the library and sees a book he thinks Laurel would like, he checks it out for her and brings it home. They've been doing this kind of thing since they were littly bitty guys. It's truly a "cooperative learning environment," in which everyone furthers everyone else's education . . . without even being self-conscious about it. I loved your blue heron story, Mary. It sounds like everyone had a memorable time! Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Books for Moms on Delight Directed Learning AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Tuesday, 6 April 1999, at 8:13 a.m. What books do you all recommend for moms? I've heard wonderful things about a book called THE ART OF EDUCATION by Linda Dobson. I've never read it though. Actually I don't even know if I have the title right. Any other recommendations? Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Setting expectations AUTHOR: Chris DATE: Tuesday, 6 April 1999, at 8:21 a.m. I still have a question? In interest led learning, do parents still have set things that they have their children do. We do math and work on some grammar. But have left everything eles very loose so they can go where there interests are. Is this alright? I have enjoyed all the responses on this board. I guess I am still worried about my 13 Yr. old. One reason we took him out of school was because he wasn't learning anything and seemed lost. But I worry that he isn't learning what he should now. I hate myself for that , since I know that he is a much happier and a more relaxed child. He also never read before but at least he is reading much more now. ======================================== MESSAGE: A little rant about labels AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Tuesday, 6 April 1999, at 9:37 a.m. Response To: Setting expectations Author: Chris Date: Tuesday, 6 April 1999, at 8:21 a.m. > In interest > led learning, do parents still have > set things that they have their children > do. Chris, behind your question lies an assumption that interest-led learning is a strictly defined method with lots of rules and how-tos and how-NOT-tos, etc., etc. What I'd like to do is suggest that there are many varieties of homeschooling and education that could fall under these labels of delight-directed or interest-led learning. The style will vary from family to family and kid to kid. I imagine most parents hang onto "set thing that they have their children do," but you would see a wide range here. One family might have 30 minutes of semi-formal math every day plus an hour of music instruction, while another family might have 10 minutes of freewriting and 2 hours of reading, and another family might not have any engraved rules about what their children do each day, but the children in this last family may nevertheless be doing more academics than the first two families put together. And all 3 families might refer to themselves as "interest-led homeschoolers." There's a common desire among homeschooling parents to make very sure that they've picked the "correct" method and that they're practicing this correct method correctly! Well, I just don't believe it can be that neat and tidy. I don't know of any list of rules that tells us exactly what to do in every instance. And that's the rub, you know -- because every child is a separate case, and I tend to take each kid on a case-by-case basis. Yes, there are general principles here that I believe in. I believe that learning IS delightful, and I believe that children who are able to experience learning this way end up being very able and willing learners. I don't believe in drudgery and punishment. I don't believe that education is best accomplished with a long, serious face and a big, fat rulebook of scope & sequence. But these are just general ideas I have about education, based on what I've witnessed with my own children and on what I remember about being a kid, myself. I'm not working from a manual! > We do math and work on some grammar. > But have left everything eles very loose > so they can go where there interests > are. Is this alright? It has worked for lots of kids in lots of families. No one can give you a guarantee that if you do x and y, you'll get z. But we can all shout in chorus that this is similar to what we've done in our own families and we're happy to report that we have bright, curious children who know a lot and love to learn. > I guess > I am still worried about my 13 Yr. old. > One reason we took him out of school > was because he wasn't learning anything > and seemed lost. But I worry that he > isn't learning what he should now. I > hate myself for that , since I know > that he is a much happier and a more > relaxed child. He also never read before > but at least he is reading much more > now. Chris, I guess worry just comes with the territory, but I hope you'll be able to cut back on the worrying soon and focus instead on all that you have accomplished with your son this year! This is SO important. I'm willing to bet that homeschooling has been the best thing that's happened to your little boy since he turned school age, true? And just look at what has happened this year: 1) He's much happier. Wow! You know, this is a very big deal. How many truly HAPPY 13-year-old boys do you know? Many kids this age are extremely depressed. 2) He's much more relaxed. Double wow! Chris, this is a VICTORY. So many children are stressed out and tense from head to foot -- you are obviously doing something RIGHT! 3) He's becoming a reader. This could be the crowning achievement of your homeschool adventure, so far, because people who love to read will be hooked on learning all their lives. You are giving your son the gift of a lifetime of learning. This is wonderful! I think the best advice I can give you is to tell that little worry spot in your head to be quiet and back off...to let the good things come to the fore...to relax into what feels right and natural in your own family...and to trust that love and kindness and happiness are the best foundations for a superb education. Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Setting expectations AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Tuesday, 6 April 1999, at 9:48 a.m. Response To: Setting expectations Author: Chris Date: Tuesday, 6 April 1999, at 8:21 a.m. > I still have a question? In interest > led learning, do parents still have > set things that they have their children > do. We do math and work on some grammar. > But have left everything eles very loose > so they can go where there interests > are. Is this alright? Sure! But even those subjects could be left on an interest-based level as well. I understand how some parents would be uncomfortable with that, however. There isn't any set rules to this. It's more of a mindset--a way of life, than anything else. Children learn best when they are interested in a subject. It's like that for anyone--even adults. Does that mean that you aren't going to do math just because your child isn't "delighted" in it? NO! Timing, however, is everything in some cases and sometimes the timing for some of the academic things we like to push is all wrong. >I have enjoyed > all the responses on this board. I guess > I am still worried about my 13 Yr. old. > One reason we took him out of school > was because he wasn't learning anything > and seemed lost. But I worry that he > isn't learning what he should now. I > hate myself for that , since I know > that he is a much happier and a more > relaxed child. He also never read before > but at least he is reading much more > now. A similar discussion you might enjoy reading can be found to your left. There is a link called DIGEST FROM THE MONTHLY TOPIC BOARD and if you go there look up the DESCHOOLING DIGEST. You will also find lots of insight there. Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: A little rant about labels AUTHOR: Debra DATE: Tuesday, 6 April 1999, at 1:14 p.m. Response To: A little rant about labels Author: Cerelle Date: Tuesday, 6 April 1999, at 9:37 a.m. > What I'd like to do is suggest > that there are many varieties of homeschooling > and education that could fall under > these labels of delight-directed or > interest-led learning. The style will > vary from family to family and kid to > kid. I love this comment! And YES I think we as parents need to begin looking "broader" in our approaches to "guiding" our childrens education. Some children will have a natural interest in math, others won't have as strong of an interest. I am a BIG fan of Howard Gardner's theory of Multiple Intelligences (I keep a web site for a friend who researches this theory here if anyone is interested). ANYWAY, one of the intelligences is "Mathematical/Logical". This just happens to be one of my highest AND my husband's highest! Naturally when we began homeschooling we had fantasies of having our kids doing algebra by 3rd grade ! Well I can tell you that probably isn't going to happen. My kid's are not highly motivated in this area, and in the fall we tried to "push" math (out of our own interest and desire to make little "clones" of ourselves ). It didn't work at all! The kids got frustrated and my husband and I became impatient. Then I read more about MI Theory and we tested our kids and found that their strengths are different than our own. That was a BIG wake up call for us! SO we approached their learning from THEIR strengths and not our own. Well several months later (after putting away the math books and diving head first into music and interpersonal activities which are my daughter's stregths) THEY has requested math lessons! THEY DID, NOT ME! AND they are doing great! Better than I thought they could at this age. BUT it was THEIR idea! In fact I will find them sitting a the table and they say, "Mom teach us math!" I believe some of the reason they are interested now in it is because they "see" a reason for it now. They "see" me balancing the check book, they "see" me with my calculator at the store figuring price per ounce, and the "see" other kids doing math. So now they want to know what everyone else knows. And NOW it is easy to teach them (or should I say "guide" them). Anyway, I find when you let your child direct their own learning THEY have fun and THEY enjoy learning and YOU don't have a battle on your hands and YOU don't become frustrated by their lack of interest! It is a WIN WIN situation! Debra ======================================== MESSAGE: Yes, but. . . AUTHOR: dmx DATE: Tuesday, 6 April 1999, at 6:54 p.m. Response To: Delight vs. demand Author: Cerelle Date: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 11:15 a.m. I just finished reading what you read & thinking over and over again, 'You're so right'. And then I wondered, 'So, why is it so hard to do this day in and day out?' We really struggle to allow interest-led learning dominate the weeks. I have a few things that I feel important and insist on doing and about a zillion things we try and give up because they don't fit well. But, it often seems a struggle to remind myself of what's important and not to worry all the time. If it's one thing parents of unschoolers say, it's that they would worry less if they could do it over again. That's one thing I have a lot of trouble with. Anyone else? I remember listening to a speech given by Maya Angelou. She was telling students that envy, complacency, and bitterness don't just disappear. They cling to you and you have to actually scrape them off you. Not to be too heavy or philosophical, but that is often how I feel about worry and my tendency to dictate what learning goes on - I need to SCRAPE it off each day. And too many days go by where the hum-drum overwhelms the absolute magic of this experience! ======================================== MESSAGE: Great image -- SCRAPING off the worry! AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Wednesday, 7 April 1999, at 12:22 a.m. Response To: Yes, but. . . Author: dmx Date: Tuesday, 6 April 1999, at 6:54 p.m. > But, it often seems a struggle to remind > myself of what's important and not to > worry all the time. If it's one thing > parents of unschoolers say, it's that > they would worry less if they could > do it over again. That's one thing I > have a lot of trouble with. Anyone else? You bet! This has absolutely been true for me. I used to squander much too much of my time, worrying that my kids weren't learning enough, or that we weren't spending enough time every day on academics, or that we needed to be more serious about this business of education. And the funny thing about that is that I'm really not a worrier by nature -- I have probably worried LESS about these things than most parents. Even so, I think the longer we're in the game, the easier it is to let go of all the worries. Those of us with older (or grown) kids can see that this lifestyle really is a good thing -- that our children are turning out fine (better than fine, in fact), and that our worries were for nothing. > I remember listening to a speech > given by Maya Angelou. She was telling > students that envy, complacency, and > bitterness don't just disappear. They > cling to you and you have to actually > scrape them off you. Not to be too heavy > or philosophical, but that is often > how I feel about worry and my tendency > to dictate what learning goes on - I > need to SCRAPE it off each day. Oh, I really love this. It's a good, concrete image to work with, don't you think? I can imagine myself scraping the worries off. Did you happen to read my rant (above) about labels? We worry so much about doing everything right, following all the rules, and so on...and we forget to take pride and pleasure in the good stuff that's happening right under our noses. Sometimes I think we need someone to walk next to us all day long and point out everything that's GOOD and encouraging, so we'll stop looking exclusively at what could be improved. > And > too many days go by where the hum-drum > overwhelms the absolute magic of this > experience! Yes, oh yes! Hum-drum is like a poison, but delight is a powerful antidote. To my way of thinking, when we take delight in something, we are truly ALIVE. My goal is always to bring as much LIFE to our learning as I possibly can. I think of that sparkle in my kids' eyes when they're really excited about something. I think of the looks on their faces when they read or hear or see something that gets their neurons firing. That's the phenomenon I'm always hoping to foster and eager to see more of. Meanwhile, thanks for that thought from Maya Angelou -- I love it! I'll be "scraping off" worry and envy and bitterness as often as I can remember to do it. :) (Hmmm...I left out "complacency." Freudian slip???) Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Great image -- SCRAPING off the worry! AUTHOR: Laura in SC DATE: Wednesday, 7 April 1999, at 8:20 a.m. Response To: Great image -- SCRAPING off the worry! Author: Cerelle Date: Wednesday, 7 April 1999, at 12:22 a.m. > Did you happen to read > my rant (above) about labels? We worry > so much about doing everything right, > following all the rules, and so on...and > we forget to take pride and pleasure > in the good stuff that's happening right > under our noses. This is my problem: I like a lot of Charlotte Mason's ideas, but I couldn't do it "right". I like a lot of unit study concepts, but I couldn't do it "right". I like a lot of delight directed learning concepts, but I don't do it "right". I need to get back to the basics and remember that we are homeschooling because that is what we have been called to do at this time because it is what is best for our family. And part of what is best for our family may not be following the "rules" of any one philosophy of homeschooling, but working out some of each, to find what is truly best for our family. I will continue to follow this board, but try to remember to pick and choose what works or will work for our family, discard what doesn't, and rejoice with all of you that we do have these options. Laura ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Books for Moms on Delight Directed Learning AUTHOR: annette DATE: Wednesday, 7 April 1999, at 9:19 a.m. Response To: Books for Moms on Delight Directed Learning Author: Giovanna Date: Tuesday, 6 April 1999, at 8:13 a.m. I don't know if this would qualify but I just started reading In Their Own Way by Thomas Armstrong. So far it is wonderful. Lots about not labeling kids, allowing freedom to learn in their own way, what they are interested in. The chapter I just read would be of great encouragment to parents with children labeled learning disabled. He pointed out all of the hidden strengths of those children that are overlooked because they are not 'schoolish" qualities, at least to the school they aren't. Anyway, I am enjoying it. Has anyone else read it? > What books do you all recommend > for moms? > I've heard wonderful things about > a book called THE ART OF EDUCATION by > Linda Dobson. I've never read it though. > Actually I don't even know if I have > the title right. Any other recommendations? > > Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Setting expectations AUTHOR: Marie DATE: Wednesday, 7 April 1999, at 9:43 a.m. Response To: Setting expectations Author: Chris Date: Tuesday, 6 April 1999, at 8:21 a.m. My 13 yr old son took himself out of school. He decided that it wasn't getting him anywhere. He was unhappy, tense, and hated the immature way the other kids his age acted. He is now happy, reads Shakespear (which he loves)and other English Literature. Actually finds things to learn. (My goodness, I discovered he is self motivated!!) He is actually pleasant to be around (didn't used to be) While having discussions with him in the car, on his way to dance school,I discoved he knows more than I do about current events. It took awhile but things are really clicking for him. I still worry that I am not doing things right, that he isn't learning enough but what is enough?! He is happy. I went to PS all my school years and I was seldom happy they never studied what I was interested in. I went to a University and was even unhappier. Yes I graduated and have a degree but I am happier at home with my children. He does do have Math and he has set some things for himself to do with grammer and some writing. I search the web for interesting things. Throw them in a special file for him to look up. If he is interested it stays if not he deletes it. It is working for us, BUT it did take awhile and lot of worry on my part. Marie ======================================== MESSAGE: a thought on interest led learning AUTHOR: Kim from Sidetracks DATE: Wednesday, 7 April 1999, at 9:45 a.m. My kids are out on the driveway drawing their shadows- so they can measure them and see where they move after lunch, in half an hour, etc. They came up with this totally on their own ! I wanted them to stay inside and some book work... but... well... I guess they'll just have to breath fresh air and learn higher level math and science :-( ======================================== MESSAGE: Re Brilliant (like beautiful) is in the eye of the beholder ! AUTHOR: Kim from Sidetracks DATE: Wednesday, 7 April 1999, at 9:59 a.m. Response To: Is this an example? Author: Debbie D. Date: Monday, 5 April 1999, at 8:52 p.m. > I'd like to know if what my two sons > did recently is an example of "delight > directed learning" and if I responded > to it appropriattely. Well- you didn't faint (as far as we know- *I* would have !!) and you didn't say No... today you need to learn to spell these words... maybe there will be time later for your eagle report :-) If we encourage our children's interests and step back a little- they will AMAZE us every time. So far I haven't been amazed in the writing area, but my kids teach me something new every day. I'm very glad they agreed to homeschool me... :-) >my 8yob announced that > he wanted to do a project and report > on whale sharks! It's contagious ! The younger ones can't HELP but get good ideas and thoughts from the bigger ones because they are all learning together ;-) ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Yes, but. . . AUTHOR: Kim from Sidetracks DATE: Wednesday, 7 April 1999, at 10:03 a.m. Response To: Yes, but. . . Author: dmx Date: Tuesday, 6 April 1999, at 6:54 p.m. Our kids aren't the ones that worry about the PS mold - unless they've been and mine haven't. It's US ! We who were raised in the PS image. I was not the average child and I was often Sqashed into the reading/ writing box and streeeetched to fit the math box. After 12 years of "silly putty" school existance it is hard to get past those ideas of you have to learn THIS at this time, etc. etc. But the kids are teaching me :-) ======================================== MESSAGE: Picking and choosing AUTHOR: Jody C. DATE: Wednesday, 7 April 1999, at 12:01 p.m. Somewhere in this delight directed learning, I still want to pick and choose some (rather, many) of the books and lessons that I feel are important. I want them to leave home with reasons to do the "right thing", to treat others with respect and to honor God. Therefore, I feel I must also "train" them up as well. Isn't there some balance here? I like the seatbelt theory...there are some things you must do because it's important to me and I'm yo' mamma!! Any thoughts? Jody ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: A little rant about labels AUTHOR: Jody C. DATE: Wednesday, 7 April 1999, at 12:14 p.m. Response To: Re: A little rant about labels Author: Debra Date: Tuesday, 6 April 1999, at 1:14 p.m. > ANYWAY, one of the intelligences > is "Mathematical/Logical". > This just happens to be one of my highest > AND my husband's highest! Naturally > when we began homeschooling we had fantasies > of having our kids doing algebra by > 3rd grade ! Well I can tell you that > probably isn't going to happen. > Debra, I find that this is almost the "golden rule" of raising children..."Whatever Mom and Dad are good at and LOVE, the children will find complete opposite interests." It is also a "rule" between our children..."If sister is good at piano, I'll be the best at Math or sports." I have a friend who is a nurse and of course, loves biology and everything "human body". She has the very best resources on all that, but do you think any of her children have a bent for it? Nope! I just think this is too funny and so true everywhere you look! Jody ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Great image -- SCRAPING off the worry! AUTHOR: Jody C. DATE: Wednesday, 7 April 1999, at 12:20 p.m. Response To: Re: Great image -- SCRAPING off the worry! Author: Laura in SC Date: Wednesday, 7 April 1999, at 8:20 a.m. Laura, Are you the Laura who posts sometimes at the CM Message Board? If it's any consolation, this is just how I am too. I use what works and "who cares" about the labels. I still love most of the CM methods and ways, but I use a little of everything...unit study, self-directed study, and rarely formal study. > > This is my problem: I like a lot > of Charlotte Mason's ideas, but I couldn't > do it "right". I like a lot > of unit study concepts, but I couldn't > do it "right". I like a lot > of delight directed learning concepts, > but I don't do it "right". > > I really go for what's simple. It seems to work both for me and for the kids. We like it best that way...read, write, math, science projects and other interests. You are not alone. Jody ======================================== MESSAGE: How about this? AUTHOR: JanetS. DATE: Wednesday, 7 April 1999, at 2:04 p.m. Response To: Books for Moms on Delight Directed Learning Author: Giovanna Date: Tuesday, 6 April 1999, at 8:13 a.m. Sally Clarkson (can't remember her husbands name and he wrote the book too) has a wonderful book called "Educating the Whole-Hearted Child" - they even have a website but don't ask me what the addy is - I've lost it! Gregg Harris has a tape in one of his series - maybe it can be purchased seperatly - Delight Directed Studies. HOpe this helps! ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Picking and choosing AUTHOR: dmx DATE: Wednesday, 7 April 1999, at 2:56 p.m. Response To: Picking and choosing Author: Jody C. Date: Wednesday, 7 April 1999, at 12:01 p.m. I basically agree with what you wrote. There are some things that I insist my son work on. My basic rule is that he must learn anything that, if missed, will close future doors to him. Now, those areas are highly subjective and I try to keep them to a minimum. But I've seen some kids who begin to turn off possibilties IN THEIR OWN MINDS because 'they aren't bent that way' or they 'are too far behind to catch up now'; so I do insist on progress in math and exposure to interests that aren't part of what he sees going on in his daily life. Anyway, these areas are definitely debatable (and I'm my own best debater! : ] ) However, even though I use this approach, I have found two really BIG difficulties with it. First, those 'necessities' often creep and spread like ivy into other areas. I have been known to kill off a genuine interest by insisting on including this or that. Secondly, my own lack of flexibility sometimes causes me to call my son away from genuine learning to do 'the requirements'. I believe both of these problems are in ME. And I have to constantly remind myself to keep things in perspective and remember there's always another day. Do you have these problems? ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: How about this? AUTHOR: Janine DATE: Wednesday, 7 April 1999, at 6:53 p.m. Response To: How about this? Author: JanetS. Date: Wednesday, 7 April 1999, at 2:04 p.m. > Sally Clarkson (can't remember > her husbands name and he wrote the book > too) has a wonderful book called "Educating > the Whole-Hearted Child" - they > even have a website but don't ask me > what the addy is - I've lost it! > Gregg Harris has a tape in one > of his series - maybe it can be purchased > seperatly - Delight Directed Studies. > > HOpe this helps! The Clay and Sally Clarkson book is excellent. It's one of those books that you're glad they wrote so you won't have to. If I get distracted, I go back to that book. Gregg Harris' book, "The Christian Homeschool" deals a lot with delight directed learning, too. ======================================== MESSAGE: The way we do it. AUTHOR: Janine DATE: Wednesday, 7 April 1999, at 7:05 p.m. I pick a book that is to be our basis - the kids have been interested in mice lately, so we've read "the Secret of NIMH" "the Mouse and the Motorcycle" and "Stuart Little". With each of these books I think of topics in the story lines that the kids might get interested in, and do a little planning out what we could do along those lines. As we're reading I sometimes suggest, "hey, we could do this, just like in the story." They either make yukky or uninterested sounds, or jump up and down in anticipation of the project. I go with it. I make the delight stuff an earned privilege - you do the phonics and math first, then we do the project. Or I make them see that by learning this basic stuff they'll be able to have more fun learning later. All of my kids like doing the "yukky" stuff first (math) so they motivate themselves to get to the delightful stuff. Thought I'd share how we get things done, always looking for what delights the kids. Janine ======================================== MESSAGE: I've been thinking (uh-oh!) AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Thursday, 8 April 1999, at 6:01 a.m. Specifically, I've been thinking about worry. We want our children to learn with delight, right? And I assume we'd also like to have a little delight left over for ourselves, too. But how can we be in a state of delight when we're chewing our fingernails down to the quick? And how can our children really be free to follow their noses (in a happy way), when we're walking along behind them, wringing our hands and agonizing? Not every single day can be the perfect, halcyon day we all have sometimes. You know the kind of day I mean -- the day when everyone's caught up in something totally fascinating (to them, anyway). Mom's too excited to give scope & sequence a moment's thought, and no one's gone near the television, unless it was to watch 10 minutes of a taped documentary -- the 10 minutes that bear on the subject du jour, of course. Everyone's practically on another plane, buoyed up by the thrill of knowledge acquisition, discovery, and application. Some of us may have more of those days than others, but I don't think anyone has them EVERY day. If we did, we'd probably take them for granted. Still, I think we all know what it's like when that crackle is in the air. You can feel it, like electricity. I think of it as the "learning field." To me, this is the heart of delight, and one of the funny things about it is that it BANISHES worry from the brain. When you see your child completely wrapped up in the pursuit of some arcane topic, lapping it up like a kitten laps up milk -- thrilling to the vocabulary of it, hunting down every last detail, quickly attaining "minor expert status," regaling his friends with what he learned this week, holding forth at the dinner table, looking for ways to add to the body of knowledge . . . well, you know what I mean. How could anyone see this and WORRY about sentence diagramming? (Now I like diagramming sentences; I really do. I think it's a worthwhile activity. But I'm not going to furrow my brow over the fact that my kids haven't done it lately, because that's just one of many, many things to do in this wide world. None of my children can play blues guitar right now, either, and goodness knows, I wish they could. But one of them might...someday. Who's to say?) Anyway, my thought this morning is that worry gets in the way of delight...AND...delight takes the sting out of worry. They're almost mutually exclusive phenomena, and maybe it would help us sometimes if we thought of it that way. Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: The way we do it. AUTHOR: Jody C. DATE: Thursday, 8 April 1999, at 6:47 a.m. Response To: The way we do it. Author: Janine Date: Wednesday, 7 April 1999, at 7:05 p.m. This is somewhat how we do it too. We get the basics done first...math, english. But I like to have my math and English be enjoyable too. We've been using Learning Language Arts Through Literature and there are some really great projects in them. My daughter is making a folder on our state...MT for LLATL. She's had to research the state, jobs available, recreation, industry, draw the state flag, state bird, tree, map and such. She's really enjoyed it. I've also decided that our math is pretty fun too. We've recently switched to Math U See and I think they enjoy it more and it doesn't seem such a drudgery as it did when we used Saxon. Shouldn't we TRY to make basic subjects more enjoyable too? Maybe if they are, they'll be the biochemists we want them to be. Maybe? Jody ======================================== MESSAGE: Delight Learning AUTHOR: Debbie DATE: Thursday, 8 April 1999, at 10:45 a.m. This is a new concept to me. I cna't help but think though that this is what I have been trying to sort out in my brain the last few days. I want school to be more FUN!! We school for about 6 - 7 hours a day 5 days a week. We use R&S for math, english,& spelling, ACE for Scienc & Social Studies. It takes us about 2 hours or so to do math and about 45 mins to do english unless we are diagramming (whats the point of this anyway) . I want so much more out of our school experience. The other day we went for a hike/climb in the woods behind our house to see the waterfall the kdis discovered. Well at the waterfall we found our dog (she idssaeared the day before) with porcupine quills in her noes, chin and mouth (shes ok now) anyway I knew the day before the kids had seen the porcupine. I thought it would be neat to draw a picture of it. Then when we found the dog I thought it would be neat to da a report and draw a picture and maybe write a couple of paragraphs about our walk. Well this is what I think owuld be fun but not in our dauly plan which I can't seem to get away form. ANyway what other things could we have turned this experience into for a fun school day. Please any help advice you can give would be great. I am afraid to give up the textbooks and "wing it". TIA, Debbie ======================================== MESSAGE: A Question... AUTHOR: Stacy DATE: Thursday, 8 April 1999, at 1:52 p.m. I have a daughter who is 7 yrs. old today!! I knew before I was even married that when I had kids that I would homeschool. Once my daughter was born I refined my idea of homeschooling and knew that we would unschool. I had this vision of it being exactly what Giovanna describes with her son. But, it isn't going that way . There is nothing that she is really passionate about right now. Actually there hasn't been for quite some time. So, we're kind of in limbo in that area right now. I'm not sure how to boost her passion other than what we are already doing - reading lots of books about lots of things. She went through a period where she wanted to know everything about tornadoes - so we immersed ourselves in tornadoes. Then it was the Titanic. But, these interests didn't lead to other things as it did with Giovana's son. For the last 8 months or so there hasn't really been a direction. I don't mean that she hasn't done anything but that there just isn't that wonderful *delight* and drive and excitement that comes with something you are passionate about. I've even resorted to starting in Miquon and Explode the Code. That's saying a lot for someone who was going to unschool!! So far she loves them both. Right now they are fun. We've been reading a Child's History of the World in the hopes that something would catch her attention. She spends a lot of time drawing so she got new drawing supplies for her birthday. We've always tried to support her interests. But, what do you do when you can't figure out what a child's passion is? Or what if there isn't anything at the moment? Or ever? ======================================== MESSAGE: Looking for interests AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Thursday, 8 April 1999, at 2:45 p.m. Response To: A Question... Author: Stacy Date: Thursday, 8 April 1999, at 1:52 p.m. Happy Birthday to your daughter, Stacy! I'm not sure that I would worry about her not having a deep passion for any particular subject right now. She's still very young! As long as she enjoys learning about various things, you're probably OK. I hate to admit it, but not all of us run narrow and deep -- some of us run broad and shallow. I think I'm that way, to a large degree. There are topics I get extremely interested in, but it's unusual if I'm still caught up in the same ones 2 or 3 years later. I tend to move on to other interests. I feel bad about this sometimes. I've often wondered what it would be like to be the sort of person who spends a whole lifetime studying one particular kind of beetle, but I'm afraid I'll never know. My particular passion seems to be to learn about a great variety of things. I often find myself in the middle of a dozen books at once. Just about everything is fascinating to me (with the exception of economics and finance, but I may even get interested in those, someday -- who can say?). Your daughter may never be a specialist, noted for being an expert in one thing, but she may be a gifted GENERALIST. There are worse fates! ;-) You say she spends a lot of time drawing. Might not that be a passion? I bet she'll love having the new art supplies. Does she like to go to museums? Do you get art books from the library to look at? Do you ever plan special activities around drawing -- a nature walk with sketchbooks and charcoal pencils in your backpacks, for example? One more caution: I think it's nearly always a bad idea to compare our kids with anyone else's. I'd hate for anyone to read about my kids and wish theirs would do the same things...esp. since as often as not, *I* may have been wishing mine would be doing something someone else's kids were doing. LOL! You should have heard Giovanna 6 months ago, worrying about whether Andrew would ever learn to write and spell! And I used to have fits because my daughter never wanted to do ANY math at all until she got to be about 16. The grass always looks greener in the other homeschooling family's yard, believe me. I'd bet just about anything that there are things your daughter does love passionately -- right now this minute! -- but you may not have recognized them as legitimate interests. Do you keep a journal in which you record everything she does in her free time? This can be a real eye-opener sometimes -- you might notice some things that had been escaping your attention before. Once again, I hope your daughter has a great day and a great year! Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: How do you do this with a handful of kids? AUTHOR: Kathy DATE: Thursday, 8 April 1999, at 6:52 p.m. This is delight directed learning is a new concept for me and one that sounds so good. But...how do you do this with several kids? My 4yo loves sea creatures, my 7yo-?, 10yo is into singing and dancing, 11yo is a sports fanatic, and then there is the 2yo who is into EVERYTHING :-) It seems that I would be pulled in too many directions to survive! TIA Kathy ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: a thought on interest led learning AUTHOR: Barb DATE: Thursday, 8 April 1999, at 8:24 p.m. Response To: a thought on interest led learning Author: Kim from Sidetracks Date: Wednesday, 7 April 1999, at 9:45 a.m. > My kids are out on the driveway > drawing their shadows- so they can measure > them and see where they move after lunch, > in half an hour, etc. > They came up with this totally > on their own ! I wanted them to stay > inside and some book work... but... > well... I guess they'll just have to > breath fresh air and learn higher level > math and science :-( Hi Kim, your little people are awesome. All we managed to create was a sun dial, on our well cover. They are making learning interesting. Oh! What do we do about that, dredded daylight savings time. Good job Mom!!! ======================================== MESSAGE: HELP! We need a little more delight, and a lot less drudgery AUTHOR: Heidi DATE: Friday, 9 April 1999, at 5:46 a.m. This is our second year of homeschooling, and for the most part we enjoy it very much, and all goes smoothly. I homeschool a 12,10, and 7 year old, so obviously the 12 and 10 year olds were in school for a number of years. I still can't get it out of my head that we really need to be productive though, most everyday. Like classroom learning, like in we need to do "assignments" most everyday. And some of those assignments are so boring to my kids and frustrating as well. We do have fun and sway off the "normal" path at times, but it usually induces some guilt within myself. I live in a small town (pop. 4700) in which academic excellence is of utmost importance. Honor roll students names are splashed in the local papers each marking period, leaving those out who have not been able to achieve this status. Standerdized testing is of great importance hear as well, as those test scores are made public and compared to the lesser school districts in the area. The one thing that people ask me the most here when they find out I homeschool is "You must need to have them testing from time to time don't you, how will you ever know if they are keeping up with the other kids." and, "I just know I couldn't teach my child all that they need to know, don't you worry about that ?" I think I do start to worry when I hear these comments, and it prompts me to dive into those books and do those assignments, but the delight goes out the window because that creates an environment just like school. I think I just get fearful that if I let them be too self-directed they won't learn what they're "suppose to learn." Any help would be greatly appreciated. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: How do you do this with a handful of kids? AUTHOR: Amy DATE: Friday, 9 April 1999, at 6:47 a.m. Response To: How do you do this with a handful of kids? Author: Kathy Date: Thursday, 8 April 1999, at 6:52 p.m. Kathy, I have four children ages 9, 7, 4, and 2. We do the basics first thing in the morning like math and reading integrated between activities the two younger ones want to do. Then the rest of the day we roll with the punches. If one shows an interest in something then I try to plan out activities that all would enjoy with the topic. When my nine year old was interested in spiders we checked out many books and vidoes from the library. My daughter is into music so we got tapes and sheet music with songs about insects. My four year old likes crafts so I got an origami book to do animals and insects. We also made finger puppets and the two year old enjoyed playing with those and watching the plays the older ones put on. Sometimes I do feel pulled in many directions but I try to just relax. Sometimes the interest of one child gets the others interested in the topic. Sometimes they don't and I just try to spend as much time as I can with each child's individual interest. Amy > This is delight directed learning > is a new concept for me and one that > sounds so good. But...how do you do > this with several kids? My 4yo loves > sea creatures, my 7yo-?, 10yo is into > singing and dancing, 11yo is a sports > fanatic, and then there is the 2yo who > is into EVERYTHING :-) It seems that > I would be pulled in too many directions > to survive! TIA Kathy ======================================== MESSAGE: Goals, vision, staying focused AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Friday, 9 April 1999, at 9:03 a.m. Response To: Delight Learning Author: Debbie Date: Thursday, 8 April 1999, at 10:45 a.m. >I want so much > more out of our school experience. How old are your children? > The > other day we went for a hike/climb in > the woods behind our house to see the > waterfall the kdis discovered. Well > at the waterfall we found our dog (she > idssaeared the day before) with porcupine > quills in her noes, chin and mouth (shes > ok now) anyway I knew the day before > the kids had seen the porcupine. OH WOW! YIKES! That sounds like it could really hurt! >I thought > it would be neat to draw a picture of > it. Then when we found the dog I thought > it would be neat to da a report and > draw a picture and maybe write a couple > of paragraphs about our walk. Well this > is what I think owuld be fun but not > in our dauly plan which I can't seem > to get away form. Well, I tell you.... you don't have to give up the textbooks completely. This isn't an "all or nothing" deal. Did you read Cerelle's post about worrying? The post is titled "I've been thinking (uh-oh!)". The biggest problem with delight directed learning doesn't lie with the children... it lies with the PARENTS. We are so worried and wrapped up with making sure we cover "everything" that we loose focus. We need to continually ask ourselves what the big picture us? What is our vision and goal? Is it to spend hours diagramming sentences or to open opportunities for your children to discover on their own, to acquire interests? Dorothy Sayers said it best when she said: "For the sole true end of education is simply this: to teach men how to learn for themselves; and whatever instruction fails to do this is effort spent in vain." I have two suggestions for you: 1) You need to spend a season re-educating yourself regarding education. You can start right here on this board. Look to your left and you will find a link to the DIGESTS FROM THE MONTHLY BOARD. Click there and then read the DESCHOOLING DIGEST. You will find a lot of the answers you are looking for there. Also, I recommend that you stop by your local public library and pick up some of John Holt's books on education. What I have found is that education empowers you. The more you read the more that "fear" will go away. 2) Unfortunately, there isn't a magic formula that you can follow to make your specific homeschool more "fun." I can tell you that if you are spending the majority of your day (7 hours I think you wrote) on filling out workbook pages you and your children are headed straight for burn out. Your schedule does not allow enough time to explore outside the workbooks. So, what of this can you cut back for a while? Let's give delight directed learning a trial run and see what happens? Do you really have to diagram sentences every single day? What if you took two days out of the week and called it NO WORKBOOK DAY? On these days you could go on hikes, the kids could read about whatever they wanted, build things, work on projects. WHATEVER! Then while this is going on watch your children. See what types of things really interest them and then work on a way to give them more time to indulge in whatever it is that interests them. One step at a time, little by little, cut back here and there. Let them start to take more responsibility for their own education. What do you think? Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Looking for interests AUTHOR: Stacy DATE: Friday, 9 April 1999, at 10:32 a.m. Response To: Looking for interests Author: Cerelle Date: Thursday, 8 April 1999, at 2:45 p.m. Wow, Cerelle, thanks for such a great response. I'm going to stop worrying now. I really liked your idea about keeping a journal. I have never done that. And, you're also right about her being passionate about something and my not recognizing it. She has been totally passionate about *Sailor Moon* for the last 3 years. What in the world do you do with that kind of a passion?? She draws pictures and tells stories and pretends and gets the dolls as gifts, etc. I'm feeling really uncreative because I can't figure out where to go with this one. If it was something like *fish* or *ballet* or *Ancient Egypt* I'd know what to do. Or do I just let her be with it and continue to not do anything? Thanks again, Stacy ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: HELP! We need a little more delight, and a lot less drudgery AUTHOR: dmx DATE: Friday, 9 April 1999, at 10:46 a.m. Response To: HELP! We need a little more delight, and a lot less drudgery Author: Heidi Date: Friday, 9 April 1999, at 5:46 a.m. I think these worries get to us even more than we realize. I used to think that if I articulated the worry, I'd be able to combat it. But too many times I've found myself doing things which actually damage the learning process as a result of these nagging worries which aren't always on the surface. I can't really advise you except to commiserate and encourage you to constantly articulate your beliefs about education to yourself, and to your older kids. And to remind yourself CONSTANTLY of the good things that come out of homeschooling. I can suggest that you try 'relaxing' little by little. There really are no rules. You can do your curriculum 4 days a week & make sure 1 day is interest-led. You can cut down a little each day. You can take a week off and try different approaches. The only thing I do suggest is that you give different approaches time to work before you throw them out. I think homeschooling is a constant balancing act. You can look at it as a great adventure & give yourself freedom to try different approaches. I feel sure that if you 'relax' a little, you find your kids amazing you & you'll have lots of experiences to look at when you worry about how much 'curriculum' you're getting through! And you'll have lots of material to use Cafi's approach: look at the donut, not the hole! ======================================== MESSAGE: Delightful learning AUTHOR: Marsha in MI DATE: Friday, 9 April 1999, at 11:17 a.m. This is a new "phrase" for me. We've been homeschooling for 10 years and what delights me the most is self-initiated learning on the part of my children. It's been my experience that if they have an interest in something they learn the most.Granted, it doesn't always happen that way, but the more we give them room to think, to dream and to read on their own about things they are interested in, the more they will come up with ideas for themselves. If their days are crowded with Lesson Plans and segmented into compartments, when can they dream up their own learning ideas? My kids are always thrilled with themselves when they initiate something because I make sure they know that I'm delighted with them. Sure makes my day easier! An example: yesterday my 12 year old was leafing thru a science experiement book and found a project he wanted to do - making a model soccer field and magnetic people to play on it; well, I could see the possibilities right away, besides the magnet lesson (science) was the math involved in transferring the measurement of the soccer field onto poster board accurately. Then he also read in the encyclopedia about the rules of soccer and this is leading into all sorts of other directions. Yeah for him! Lucky me! :-) ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: a thought on interest led learning AUTHOR: Kim from Sidetracks DATE: Friday, 9 April 1999, at 1:04 p.m. Response To: Re: a thought on interest led learning Author: Barb Date: Thursday, 8 April 1999, at 8:24 p.m. My little people haven't had all the joy of life and learning squashed out of them by PS ;-) I was thinking- wouldn't it be cool to make a sundial with the power pole and plant a different Canadian wildflower at each hour :-) You can calculate for daylight savings time ! I know you can- I read that somewhere.... > Hi Kim, your little people are > awesome. All we managed to create was > a sun dial, on our well cover. They > are making learning interesting. Oh! > What do we do about that, dredded daylight > savings time. Good job Mom!!! > ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Goals, vision, staying focused AUTHOR: Debbie DATE: Friday, 9 April 1999, at 1:52 p.m. Response To: Goals, vision, staying focused Author: Giovanna Date: Friday, 9 April 1999, at 9:03 a.m. > How old are your children? Our kids are boy 14 (April 23rd) boy 12 and girl 11 > OH WOW! YIKES! That sounds like > it could really hurt! LOL Yes it seemed quite painful to me just looking at it. > Well, I tell you.... you don't > have to give up the textbooks completely. > This isn't an "all or nothing" > deal. > Did you read Cerelle's post about > worrying? The post is titled "I've > been thinking (uh-oh!)". Yes, I did read her post and it was a real blessing to me. I thought on it for awhile and need to read it again. > The biggest problem with delight > directed learning doesn't lie with the > children... it lies with the PARENTS. > We are so worried and wrapped up with > making sure we cover "everything" > that we loose focus. We need to continually > ask ourselves what the big picture us? > What is our vision and goal? Is it to > spend hours diagramming sentences or > to open opportunities for your children > to discover on their own, to acquire > interests? > Dorothy Sayers said it best when > she said: > "For the sole true end of > education is simply this: to teach men > how to learn for themselves; and whatever > instruction fails to do this is effort > spent in vain." > I have two suggestions for you: > > 1) You need to spend a season re-educating > yourself regarding education. You can > start right here on this board. Look > to your left and you will find a link > to the DIGESTS FROM THE MONTHLY BOARD. > Click there and then read the DESCHOOLING > DIGEST. You will find a lot of the answers > you are looking for there. Also, I recommend > that you stop by your local public library > and pick up some of John Holt's books > on education. What I have found is that > education empowers you. The more you > read the more that "fear" > will go away. Thank you for the information. I will spend some time in the Deschooling area. > 2) Unfortunately, there isn't a > magic formula that you can follow to > make your specific homeschool more "fun." > I can tell you that if you are spending > the majority of your day (7 hours I > think you wrote) on filling out workbook > pages you and your children are headed > straight for burn out. Your schedule > does not allow enough time to explore > outside the workbooks. So, what of this > can you cut back for a while? Let's > give delight directed learning a trial > run and see what happens? Do you really > have to diagram sentences every single > day? What if you took two days out of > the week and called it NO WORKBOOK DAY? > On these days you could go on hikes, > the kids could read about whatever they > wanted, build things, work on projects. > WHATEVER! Then while this is going on > watch your children. See what types > of things really interest them and then > work on a way to give them more time > to indulge in whatever it is that interests > them. One step at a time, little by > little, cut back here and there. Let > them start to take more responsibility > for their own education. I want to try a trial of this in the summer after everything else is done or maybe after there CAT test on the 27th. I am really excited tor try it and see how it goes. I also want to do some math things over the summer to keep things fresh. They learned alot of new things this year. > What do you think? Thanks so much for responding and I will take some of your advice. Debbie > Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Goals, vision, staying focused AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Friday, 9 April 1999, at 1:59 p.m. Response To: Re: Goals, vision, staying focused Author: Debbie Date: Friday, 9 April 1999, at 1:52 p.m. > I want to try a trial of this in > the summer after everything else is > done or maybe after there CAT test on > the 27th. Debbie: Here is a something that you will probably like. It's written for new homeschoolers but nonetheless there is tons of truth in it and anyone can benefit from it. It is written from a Christian perspective. This part of the "re-education" I was telling you about in my other post. Go here: Hope you enjoy it! Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: ideas (long) AUTHOR: Dawne DATE: Friday, 9 April 1999, at 3:30 p.m. Response To: HELP! We need a little more delight, and a lot less drudgery Author: Heidi Date: Friday, 9 April 1999, at 5:46 a.m. Heidi, I don't know if this is *help* or not but at least its free:0) [sure hope you can laugh a little, it makes life eaiser] I have felt the same way and I am REALLY new at this [2 weeks]. Everytime I turn around I see the words "regular and thorough instruction..." I could just scream. Here's what I've decided. Formal math & reading programs because he is just 6 and I believe that 30 min. a day on each surely won't kill him. Also, these two subj. form the foundation for the rest, IMO. I do the child-led learning in the FUN stuff - Science, Social Studies, Art and Music and math too. We do (well, Ben and Dad) one science experiment a week on the weekend. this is MUCH MORE than they get in ps and he likes it. I get a lot of ideas from this site which is now a favorite bookmark. He keeps a Science Journal of his thoughts and feelings about the projects. Viola! Science and Writing in one. I do NOT correct his journal entries nor do I tell him what he can or cannot write. I help him spell when he wants help. He spelled MAXIMIZE as macksimis in his journal. Because of this board I feel that I am able to be happy that the word was used well in context (on HIS own). The old me would have been upset at the spelling. The new me knows that spelling will come along month by month. I don't want to take his enthusiasm away. B/c we deal directly with the state and not an umbrella org I keep a copy of the experiment that I printed out in the back so they can refer to it as nec. Here's a lot of delight in math Try also the book FAMILY MATH. You'll love it. Pen pals via snail mail are a large part of our Soc. Studies. I basically let him pick 3-4 countries he'd like to know about. For example next year his classmates will do Mexico, Canada, Denmark and Korea. WE will be doing Korea (b/c we take Tae Kwon Do), S. Africa (we have pen pal there), Canada for the same reason and Brazil b/c he's interested in the equator for some reason. We will cook their food and hear their music. Maybe learn to count to ten in their lang. etc., You can see how that is much more fun than a text. It means I spend more time on the net or with library books but it is worth it. I would also recommend that you write a letter to the editor, signed or not, about homeschooling and its values and advantages. Dispel some myths while you are at it and list sources so the readers can look into it on their own if they want. Keep in mind too that testing (I.Q., SATs etc.,) are taken to be worth so much more than they are designed for. SATs are looked at by colleges as ONE part of the admission process. They are designed to measure HOW WELL a given person will do in college NOT how SMART they are. Just look at how many people brag on their kids' SAT scores. To me they mean nothing. Also, in MD testing is not mandatory but you can elect to have your kids tested at 2,4,6 and I think 8th grades. All you do is take them on the day of the test to your district school. Results are mailed to you. Bear in mind that for 2 yrs. now someone has been keeping tabs on you. Either the state or an umbrella org. Your post didn't say you were receiving any problems from *them*. If you needed to tweak your curriculum or *get your kids up to par* someone would have told you by now. There is a WONDERFUL article on the front page of AT HOME IN AMERICA, a pub. of Homeschool Assoc. Email me if you'd like me to summarize it for you. OR better yet, try to get a copy. Go to Homeschool Assoc. I rec'd it free and was a bit surprised but happy to get it. One last thing. We have a free publication avail. in supermarkets and the like called Baltimore's Child. There are articles etc. in it but what I get it for is the calendar of events. I let Ben help me pick what we'll do each month. 95% of these events are free. We do Sat. once a month at the museum for an art program, drop in and free of charge. We do the free science trips and a lot of library activities like the cartoonist lecture we went to a week ago. This is a great time of year for field trips anyway so ENJOY! Best of LUCK, Dawne ======================================== MESSAGE: My Kid's delights - Falcons & Sculpting...What next??? AUTHOR: Robin DATE: Friday, 9 April 1999, at 9:51 p.m. Delight directed learning...Sounds Good. I've been kicking this idea around for months. My oldest son has a passion for wildlife, wants to go into wildlife biology and dreams of owning a peregrine falcon. We have even gotten some books out of the library on Falconry. But, it take $, time, equip,...etc. My 7-year-old dreams of being a sculptor. I am not a crafty person!! They do drawing lessons & we do art appreciation...but SCULPTING??? I haven't the foggiest what to do with this..... Robin in Washington ======================================== MESSAGE: Three Levels of Learning AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Friday, 9 April 1999, at 10:15 p.m. I'm going to summarize a chart that was written by Barb Shelton. This chart is in the book, WISDOM'S WAY OF LEARNING (written by Marilyn Howshall). Look at this chart and see where your effort is most spent and what your children are mostly doing. LEVEL 1 -- OBSERVE (dabble, exposure) Motivation: External (done for the student) Progressive Examples: Read about museums, read about birds and feathers, Read grammar and writing rules, read about observe tap dance time required: brief exposure Level of interest: none or whim Fruit: Aware it exists or is happening Response if forced: Best--tolerance Worst--Resistance, lack of cooperation ------------------------------------ LEVEL 2: PARTICIPATE (basic experience or study) Motivation: Either external or Internal (done with or by the student) Progressive Examples: Visit a museum, collect feathers and learn about birds, do some writing referring to rules, learn to tap dance Time Required: Longer exposure or repeated activity Level of Interest: Interest, Passion begins to develop Fruit: Gains a feel for it Response if forced: Best--Boredom, tolerance Worst--Resentful -------------------------------- LEVEL 3: MASTER (delight directed pursuit) Motivation: Internal (done by the student on own initiative) Progressive Examples: Able to relate details about the museum from memory, study birds and feathers and then mount in book adding details, skillfully apply grammar skills to own writing, perform or choreograph tap dance Time Required: Very prolonged exposure or repition, freedom to continue unto mastery Level of Interest: Passion Fruit: Owns it at the heart, Enjoyable, fullfilling, natural part of life, knows it without having to look at it Response if Forced: Best--resentful Worst--Rebellion, burn out _____________________________________ Do you understand this chart? Where do your children fall here and the activities and "schoolwork" that they do? Hopefully somewhere between Level 2 and three. If you are preparing most of the work and activities and your children are basically passive bystanders or spectators than you are in LEVEL 1 and this is not where you want to be. Well, I take that back. I think everyone sort of starts out in LEVEL 1 but then you have to progress further. I thought this chart was a good way of explaining it. See the "time required" part? Delight directed pursuits take a long time. Can't rush them. Can't say, "Hurry up Johnny, it's time for the math book." :-) Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Yes, but. . . AUTHOR: Barb DATE: Friday, 9 April 1999, at 11:56 p.m. Response To: Re: Yes, but. . . Author: Kim from Sidetracks Date: Wednesday, 7 April 1999, at 10:03 a.m. > Our kids aren't the ones that worry > about the PS mold - unless they've been > and mine haven't. It's US ! We who were > raised in the PS image. I was not the > average child and I was often Sqashed > into the reading/ writing box and streeeetched > to fit the math box. > After 12 years of "silly putty" > school existance it is hard to get past > those ideas of you have to learn THIS > at this time, etc. etc. Yes Kim, children in the school system were and still are abused, now-a-days mainly mentally. Recent example: My little daughter and I went to the library on Tuesday. We had a few projects and needed some books. We picked our books and were ready to do the paperwork. Mrs. K. (librarian) had a difficult time writing. She told us that in grade 4 the teacher hit her hand with a ruler because she did not hold her pencil correctly. Her hand has permanent damage. Wow, it makes you sit up and take notice of what can happen to our children. Mrs. K. spoke freely of her experiences and is very suportive of our home educating choice. > But the kids are teaching me :-) Wonderful Mom, You are a T E A M !!! > ======================================== MESSAGE: A book . . AUTHOR: dmx DATE: Saturday, 10 April 1999, at 10:04 a.m. Response To: My Kid's delights - Falcons & Sculpting...What next??? Author: Robin Date: Friday, 9 April 1999, at 9:51 p.m. No practical experience in this area, but I read a book to my 12 yo son last year. It's a non-fiction book about a writer who took some time off to follow his passion - falconry - for a year or so. It has some side themes, but falconry is the main one. It's called EQUINOX - LIFE, LOVE, AND BIRDS OF PREY by Dan O'Brien. You and your son might want to take a look at it. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: a thought on interest led learning AUTHOR: Sybille DATE: Saturday, 10 April 1999, at 7:06 p.m. Response To: a thought on interest led learning Author: Kim from Sidetracks Date: Wednesday, 7 April 1999, at 9:45 a.m. My little guy is 5 yrs old and looks at a hundred board without much interest or spark BUT he can measure lumber with Dad with the utmost accuracy and joy. This can't be the wrong way to go!!! > My kids are out on the driveway > drawing their shadows- so they can measure > them and see where they move after lunch, > in half an hour, etc. > They came up with this totally > on their own ! I wanted them to stay > inside and some book work... but... > well... I guess they'll just have to > breath fresh air and learn higher level > math and science :-( ======================================== MESSAGE: challenged,stretched and interested!!!! AUTHOR: Teresa DATE: Saturday, 10 April 1999, at 7:31 p.m. You, ladies, are challenging the mind of this former public school teacher(soon to be hser). My children are 3.5dd and 2.5dd. I have fully decided to hs. am in the research and search for curriculum mode.....THEN I stumble upon you guys!!!Another sleepless night!!!! Seriously, thus far this is my plan.....100 Easy Lessons and LLATL for Reading and Lang. Arts...undecided about Math program......mini-units for Science and SS(my version of delightful learning) Do you really not keep track of what the interests have been and where they've gone to see what has been studied or accomplished????? I don't mean go in scope and sequence order,but at least check off items or something.Does your state require any testing...how do you do that...or do they require any records...? ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: challenged,stretched and interested!!!! AUTHOR: Barb DATE: Saturday, 10 April 1999, at 8:38 p.m. Response To: challenged,stretched and interested!!!! Author: Teresa Date: Saturday, 10 April 1999, at 7:31 p.m. > You, ladies, are challenging the > mind of this former public school teacher(soon > to be hser). Yes Teresa, this forum is very interesting. As a teacher, you have a definate edge ie., curriculum etc. My children are 3.5dd and > 2.5dd. I have fully decided to hs. am > in the research and search for curriculum > mode.....THEN I stumble upon you guys!!!Another > sleepless night!!!! Seriously, thus > far this is my plan.....100 Easy Lessons > and LLATL for Reading and Lang. Arts...undecided > about Math program......mini-units for > Science and SS(my version of delightful > learning) Do you really not keep track > of what the interests have been and > where they've gone to see what has been > studied or accomplished????? I don't > mean go in scope and sequence order,but > at least check off items or something.Does > your state require any testing...how > do you do that...or do they require > any records...? We are required to submit a program plan for each child. Children here (Alberta,Canada) write achievement tests in Gr. 3, 6, and 9. (government exams) In grade 12 they write departmental exams in order to receive a high school diploma. Each child has a portfolio consisting of their best work throughout the school year. In order to get their diploma, we have to follow what children in the ps system study. At times, that can be quite awkward. We follow the government program of studies and try to make the subjects as challenging and fun as humanly possible. How is your State, are they Home Education friendly? You being a teacher must have a great deal of insight on the subject. Enjoy you research Teresa. Stay in touch ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: a thought on interest led learning AUTHOR: Barb DATE: Saturday, 10 April 1999, at 8:44 p.m. Response To: Re: a thought on interest led learning Author: Sybille Date: Saturday, 10 April 1999, at 7:06 p.m. > My little guy is 5 yrs old and > looks at a hundred board without much > interest or spark BUT he can measure > lumber with Dad with the utmost accuracy > and joy. This can't be the wrong way > to go!!! That's a great way to learn math, fun too. At that rate he'll enjoy math when he is older. Good for you!! ======================================== MESSAGE: It's true... AUTHOR: Ann in NC DATE: Sunday, 11 April 1999, at 6:53 a.m. Response To: challenged,stretched and interested!!!! Author: Teresa Date: Saturday, 10 April 1999, at 7:31 p.m. Do you really not keep track > of what the interests have been and > where they've gone to see what has been > studied or accomplished????? Teresa, It's true....I did TRY to keep track of all their interests, but it quickly became impossible. I must say that their major interests are hard to miss -- I'm still tripping over the stage props for the play my daughter wrote and is directing, and the basement is full of shell collections and electrical 'inventions' they've come up with. And so many of our vacations are planned around children's interests -- trips to historical houses, or visting every aquarium on the East Coast, or finding the little beach in New Jersey that is littered with thousands of horseshoe crabs. No, I won't forget those too quickly. But when I tried to keep track of all the times we'd look up something in the encyclopedia (we keep one in the car, too, because so many questions come up when we're driving), or keep track of the dinner-table conversations, it got ridiculous. I finally decided that our kind of unschooling/delight-directed learning just was a different life-style. I don't even know how to compare it. Some items I've seen in textbooks are so shallow, that I think my kids learned more about that topic from one peek in the encyclopedia. OTOH some school projects go into much more depth than I would ever consider necessary -- one 7th grade friend was doing a major project in geometry. Since I have a Ph.D. in differential geometry, I was very interested. He was working on a kind of figure (iso-dodacahdron or some such) that was shaped like a soccer ball. Okay, I admit it. I've NEVER mentioned that to my kids...poor deprived children, not to have studied that! So...we just go along and enjoy ourselves. I admit that if I feel we haven't done much with a topic recently, I may get a kid's book from the library about it and throw it on the sofa. I know someone will pick it up. If they get interested in it, fine. If not, I figure it's not the time to do that now, and I forget about it. I've been doing this for 10 years, and it all seems to average out. As a family, we have certain subjects that we tend to drift to more than others, but nothing is ever totally ignored. And I just don't believe that every fourth grader needs to know the same things. I believe we all learn at different rates and different times. So my 4th grader may be totally interested in electricity, but she won't be doing much with poetry at that time. But a year later, it may switch. And that's fine with me... Enjoy your little daughters....I've got three daughters and one son --- but they aren't little any more...Sigh... Ann PS We must test once a year, but that's never been a problem. We have no strict requirements on results of the test, and I've never heard of anyone been challenged about their test results. I refuse to be limited to "teaching to the test", so I tell my kids that it may cover something that we haven't studied, and so we aren't going to worry about the test scores. And then I don't share the scores with them, because I don't think they have much meaning. ======================================== MESSAGE: Flying through the air, with the wind on his face! AUTHOR: Cindee DATE: Sunday, 11 April 1999, at 9:50 a.m. Thank you, ladies! Reading your comments and ideas has been a real inspiration to me! Has anyone thought of taking these digests one step further and publishing them in book form? This last week I've been down-in-the-dumps because a fellow homeschooler suggested that we need more Goals and Planning in our pursuit of education, and that what we're doing is just a big "hodge podge." Waaahhh! Painful as that was to hear, it did get me thinking about just what we are doing. And I'm coming to the opposite opinion—what's been wearing us out is my trying to control every aspect of our homeschooling experience. "Finish this subject, get that done," and not enough emphasis on developing the boys' strengths and interests (although maybe we already do too much of that to suit our well-meaning critic!). My older son, 16, has at least three major passions—BMX biking, video production/photography and playing his guitar. He does all sorts of amazing bike tricks and jumps, can build a bike from parts and has invested hundreds of babysitting dollars into his "dream machines." He's saving up now for a new camcorder, so he can make BMX videos. He's just started taking guitar lessons but practices at least an hour a day and has made great progress. In "academic" areas, he shows less enthusiasm, but he does plug away pretty dutifully at his math, language arts and German grammar lessons---the daily "skills" areas that I require. History and science are much more interesting to him, although not enough to pursue them on his own. I guess that's OK, right? So, in the spirit of interest-led learning, how can I encourage him to do more with his passions to motivate him and further his academic education? Here are some ideas we've had—write an opinion paper presenting a case for the building of a BMX park; translate it into German and then present the paper to the city Powers-That-Be here in Mainz (Germany); design jumps and ramps on the computer with a CAD program; build a scale model of the park; actually construct a few ramps or trails (if permission is obtained); get a part-time job in a bike shop; research the setting up of a bike shop (inventory, personnel, taxes, payroll, store layout, advertising, etc); design logos for the shop or bike companies (he's already done this on his own); film TV commercials; check into volunteering at one of the large German TV broadcasters which is headquartered in Mainz (there isn't the same access to youth volunteer opportunities here—Germans are pretty focused on the paper chase of appropriate qualifications, certificates and degrees!) or at the U. S. military TV station in Frankfurt—there's no lack of possibilities! Any thoughts on taking this beyond the idea stage with a laid-back fellow who would just rather be outside with the wind in his face?! ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Flying through the air, with the wind on his face! AUTHOR: Barb DATE: Sunday, 11 April 1999, at 10:50 a.m. Response To: Flying through the air, with the wind on his face! Author: Cindee Date: Sunday, 11 April 1999, at 9:50 a.m. > Thank you, ladies! Reading your > comments and ideas has been a real inspiration > to me! Has anyone thought of taking > these digests one step further and publishing > them in book form? > This last week I've been down-in-the-dumps > because a fellow homeschooler suggested > that we need more Goals and Planning > in our pursuit of education, and that > what we're doing is just a big "hodge > podge." Waaahhh! Painful as that > was to hear, it did get me thinking > about just what we are doing. And I'm > coming to the opposite opinion—what's > been wearing us out is my trying to > control every aspect of our homeschooling > experience. "Finish this subject, > get that done," and not enough > emphasis on developing the boys' strengths > and interests (although maybe we already > do too much of that to suit our well-meaning > critic!). > My older son, 16, has at least > three major passions—BMX biking, video > production/photography and playing his > guitar. He does all sorts of amazing > bike tricks and jumps, can build a bike > from parts and has invested hundreds > of babysitting dollars into his "dream > machines." He's saving up now for > a new camcorder, so he can make BMX > videos. He's just started taking guitar > lessons but practices at least an hour > a day and has made great progress. > In "academic" areas, > he shows less enthusiasm, but he does > plug away pretty dutifully at his math, > language arts and German grammar lessons---the > daily "skills" areas that > I require. History and science are much > more interesting to him, although not > enough to pursue them on his own. I > guess that's OK, right? > So, in the spirit of interest-led > learning, how can I encourage him to > do more with his passions to motivate > him and further his academic education? > Here are some ideas we've had—write > an opinion paper presenting a case for > the building of a BMX park; translate > it into German and then present the > paper to the city Powers-That-Be here > in Mainz (Germany); design jumps and > ramps on the computer with a CAD program; > build a scale model of the park; actually > construct a few ramps or trails (if > permission is obtained); get a part-time > job in a bike shop; research the setting > up of a bike shop (inventory, personnel, > taxes, payroll, store layout, advertising, > etc); design logos for the shop or bike > companies (he's already done this on > his own); film TV commercials; check > into volunteering at one of the large > German TV broadcasters which is headquartered > in Mainz (there isn't the same access > to youth volunteer opportunities here—Germans > are pretty focused on the paper chase > of appropriate qualifications, certificates > and degrees!) or at the U. S. military > TV station in Frankfurt—there's no lack > of possibilities! I WOULD GO WITH THOSE IDEA'S. THIS SOUND SO MUCH LIKE OUR BOY. THEY'RE 15 and 17. We included their interested into science and language arts. The formed a company, designed their own logo, created a work order. Every time they begin a new project (dirt bikes, snowmobiles, trucks) they start up a new work order and record everything on it. It helped us initiate their interest into everyday core subjects including math. They learn more than their peers in school. In fact, their peers spend a lot of time at our house. > Any thoughts on taking this beyond > the idea stage with a laid-back fellow > who would just rather be outside with > the wind in his face?! I don't know him but, if he likes to sketch, have him draw a super bike and design a logo. Think of a name, print business cards etc. We are now to the stage of actually register their Mud & Snow Shop. It's so much more fun than routine academics. They're learning and don't even notice it. ======================================== MESSAGE: Just stand back? AUTHOR: Ann in NC DATE: Sunday, 11 April 1999, at 8:26 p.m. Response To: Flying through the air, with the wind on his face! Author: Cindee Date: Sunday, 11 April 1999, at 9:50 a.m. Geez, this sounds great as it is, Cindee...he's using consumer math skills to save up for what he wants tobuy, he's got projects -- i.e. the BMX videos. He's willing to practice a new instrument.... So, in the spirit of interest-led > learning, how can I encourage him to > do more with his passions to motivate > him and further his academic education? > Here are some ideas we've had—write > an opinion paper presenting a case for > the building of a BMX park; translate > it into German and then present the > paper to the city Powers-That-Be here > in Mainz (Germany); design jumps and > ramps on the computer with a CAD program; > build a scale model of the park; actually > construct a few ramps or trails (if > permission is obtained); get a part-time > job in a bike shop; research the setting > up of a bike shop (inventory, personnel, > taxes, payroll, store layout, advertising, > etc); design logos for the shop or bike > companies (he's already done this on > his own); film TV commercials; check > into volunteering at one of the large > German TV broadcasters which is headquartered > in Mainz (there isn't the same access > to youth volunteer opportunities here—Germans > are pretty focused on the paper chase > of appropriate qualifications, certificates > and degrees!) or at the U. S. military > TV station in Frankfurt—there's no lack > of possibilities! > Any thoughts on taking this beyond > the idea stage with a laid-back fellow > who would just rather be outside with > the wind in his face?! I'm confused on whether your son came up with these ideas, or you did, or both of you did together. They all sound rather overwhelming to me, so I can't particularly comment. But I would just let him do what he wants to do. If he is longing to do any of them, I'd try to help him find the person he needed to talk to. But beyond that, I'd let him do it and I'd try to stay out of the way. OTOH, if those aren't things he really wants to do, then I wouldn't try to have him do them just to be educational. It might diminish his real love of the subject. Does he want to go to college? Does he realize what he'll need to do that -- my daughter wasn't particularly thrilled with studying some of the math, but she knew she needed it to get into college. But beyond some math and verbal skills, there isn't much you absolutely NEED for college. If your son knows how to find out about BMX bikes, or photography, or whatever, that means he can read and research. So he'll have the ability to do college work. I guess I'd like to remind all of us (especially myself) that our kids don't have to be prodigies; they don't need to write violin concertos or publish scientific papers. It's okay to have interests and pursue them. I think that is what we need to give our kids - the opportunity to delve into subjects. And the ability to find out what they need to know when they need to know it. Don't know if this makes sense -- it's very late and I'm very tired. Sorry if it's too disjointed... Ann ======================================== MESSAGE: I love this, Ann... AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 12 April 1999, at 7:00 a.m. Response To: It's true... Author: Ann in NC Date: Sunday, 11 April 1999, at 6:53 a.m. ...It sounds so much like our house, and it's always nice to know I'm not alone in the world. :-) I've gotten amused at myself, lots of times, over what seem to be my criteria for writing something down in my "learning journal." How DOES something make it into my notes? I've just about quit writing down dinner conversation extracts. Hunter's Star Wars activities no longer qualify, unless it happens to be something really different from what he's done before. In other words, reading the script of Return of the Jedi wouldn't get noted, because he's done a hundred times already (!), but I still write it down when he works on his own, new script. I used to try to keep records of what Laurel cooked everyday, but that's nigh impossible now. When she makes something she's never tried before, or when she really outdoes herself in some culinary way, I write it down. Otherwise, no -- I'd have writer's cramp at the end of every day. At this point, my notebook isn't so much a way to find out what the kids are interested in (because I already know, for the most part), but it IS the record I'll refer to when it comes time to draw up their high school transcripts, so of course I'm always looking for anything that can be couched in an academic light. Theoretically, of course, that's ANYTHING, but I guess I still have my prejudices, because I catch myself being strangely selective about what goes in the notebook...even at this late stage of the game. If Hunter writes to a physicist in Australia, well, oh boy! THAT goes in my journal. But if he spends 2 hours reading his Star Wars action figures collector's reference, THAT never quite makes it into my notes. On the other hand, I do (apparently) recognize the educational value of outdoor labor, because when Hunter spends an afternoon doing fence repair (to keep his dog from roaming the neighborhood), I often write that down. To me, it indicates a burgeoning sense of responsibility (not to mention devotion to his dog). Well, anyway, Ann, I love it that you keep an encyclopedia in the car. Ha! I just hope it's in a concise format--please tell me you don't have 20 volumes of Britannica in the back seat. :-D Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Flying through the air, with the wind on his face! AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 12 April 1999, at 7:23 a.m. Response To: Flying through the air, with the wind on his face! Author: Cindee Date: Sunday, 11 April 1999, at 9:50 a.m. Cindee, you know what Ann said about feeling a little overwhelmed when she read your list of ideas? Well, that was how I felt, too! I realize you weren't necessarily planning on doing them ALL, but the list itself was kind of intimidating, even though everything on there sounds wonderfully creative. Basically, I guess I have the same question Ann does...were all these things your sons ideas? If so, how wonderful -- I'd support him in doing as many of them as he'd like to do. Now I have a question about the fellow homeschooler whose comment threw you into a tailspin last week. Did you ask for her advice? If not, why is she in a position to criticize your homeschooling style? Or, to put it another way, do you wish your son were more like her kids? If you truly admire this woman's family and children, then I guess it would make sense to try to emulate her methods -- otherwise, I just wouldn't worry about it. I do think it's good to have goals, in a general sense. I think it's important to have a certain direction in mind -- do you want to encourage creativity in your children, or hard work, or both? Do you want to foster an intellectual, studious mindset or is it more important to you that your children learn about the natural world directly, by spending lots of time outdoors? See what I mean? I think once we've figured out what's really important to us, it's easier for us to determine how we want to proceed. At least, that's I how I approach "goal setting." What direction do I want to go in? What path do I want to take? When do I wish to arrive? Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Can this be Classed as ART? AUTHOR: Barb DATE: Monday, 12 April 1999, at 9:02 a.m. Our boy have old ATV's,(always fixing) and in joking a few weeks ago, I mentioned they should gather all the broken parts and weld them into a statue. Well they did, using what they've replaced recently. A chain, handle bar, hubs, axle, and more. It was funny, and not bad either. All joking set aside for a moment, I've seen some art out on display and often wonder how these pieces became so expensive, and in demand. ATV repair requires serious math skills, and the manuals, well, literacy is a definate asset. An English Professor couldn't understand this type of reading. They are learning and don't even realize it. Definately not by the book. ======================================== MESSAGE: high school interests vs requirements AUTHOR: Diane DATE: Monday, 12 April 1999, at 5:28 p.m. Wow, I've just spent the last hour reading all these wonderful posts instead of doing laundry and cleaning. This is certainly more intersting and I am inspired to worry less! I have always tried to go with my kids' interests, but admit that I am always the 'leader'. Lately I've read some things about unschooling and having been relaxing some. The problem is that my kids seem to lack taking the responsibility that comes with some of those freedoms and I find that frustrating. I don't understand how interest lead learning is much different than unschooling. Can someone help me with the differences? I am also wondering how to meet high school requirements with interest led learning. My daughter would never do any science if it were up to her intrests. Of course there are many choices for biology, or whatever the requirement may be, but what if there is absolutely no interest? Then what? I appreciate all the great thoughts and encouragment I've been reading in these posts. Thanks to all! Diane ======================================== MESSAGE: Passionate interest... AUTHOR: Tam W. DATE: Monday, 12 April 1999, at 7:46 p.m. Hi everyone:-) I don't get here nearly as often as I would like since the baby was born (she's 4 mos. old now and to cute for words:-) so I'm really glad I got here in time to see this board. I really try to do interest led learning but I'll admit I find it hard. Right now my one daughter's biggest interest is her little sister. She absolutely adores the baby and "can't wait till she can have one". Where can I go with this??I know there must be ways to branch off but I haven't really thought of them. Hope you guys can help!:-) Thanks...Tam W. ======================================== MESSAGE: You got me thinking...(LONG) AUTHOR: Tam W. DATE: Monday, 12 April 1999, at 8:14 p.m. Response To: I've been thinking (uh-oh!) Author: Cerelle Date: Thursday, 8 April 1999, at 6:01 a.m. This made me more worried...I've been at this for almost two years and we've Never had a day like that.(The one described in your post that only happens once in awhile) My kids are not that excited about anything.I have never seen them really trying to find out about something that caught there interest. What am I doing wrong?? I keep waiting for it to happen and so far it hasn't at all. I admit to being pretty unorganized and giving them ALOT of time off this year. After our youngest was born I had to just give up "school" completely and they took about 2 mos. off. We did alot of field trips in this time,(we have memberships to The Franklin Institute which is a big science museum in Philly, The Museum of Nat. Sciences and the zoo so we do this kind of thing on a fairly regular basis) we also went to the library etc...I really wasn't to worried about taking the time off because of this but on the other hand I did expect to see what I keep hearing about. Namely at least one or two days of them getting totally absorbed in something."Pursuing their own interest"..."caught up in something totally fascinating"...:-)It didn't happen. The only thing they ever want to do is play. Granted they do alot of arts and crafts (I have every art supply known to man to encourage this) but it's not like they're totally absorbed in attaining knowledge...of any kind. My house is filled with books, art supplies, a computer, musical instruments etc...etc... At this point we are back to doing "school" about 3-4 hrs. a day which is a relief. At least I feel like they're learning something. I'm sorry I'm rambling but I'm just worried...any ideas?? (My girls are almost 8 and 9) > You know the kind of day I mean -- the > day when everyone's caught up in something > totally fascinating (to them, anyway). > Mom's too excited to give scope & > sequence a moment's thought, and no > one's gone near the television, unless > it was to watch 10 minutes of a taped > documentary -- the 10 minutes that bear > on the subject du jour, of course. Everyone's > practically on another plane, buoyed > up by the thrill of knowledge acquisition, > discovery, and application. Some of > us may have more of those days than > others, but I don't think anyone has > them EVERY day. If we did, we'd probably > take them for granted. > Still, I think we all know what > it's like when that crackle is in the > air. You can feel it, like electricity. > I think of it as the "learning > field." To me, this is the heart > of delight, and one of the funny things > about it is that it BANISHES worry from > the brain. When you see your child completely > wrapped up in the pursuit of some arcane > topic, lapping it up like a kitten laps > up milk -- thrilling to the vocabulary > of it, hunting down every last detail, > quickly attaining "minor expert > status," regaling his friends with > what he learned this week, holding forth > at the dinner table, looking for ways > to add to the body of knowledge . . > . well, you know what I mean. How could > anyone see this and WORRY about sentence > diagramming? > (Now I like diagramming sentences; > I really do. I think it's a worthwhile > activity. But I'm not going to furrow > my brow over the fact that my kids haven't > done it lately, because that's just > one of many, many things to do in this > wide world. None of my children can > play blues guitar right now, either, > and goodness knows, I wish they could. > But one of them might...someday. Who's > to say?) > Anyway, my thought this morning > is that worry gets in the way of delight...AND...delight > takes the sting out of worry. They're > almost mutually exclusive phenomena, > and maybe it would help us sometimes > if we thought of it that way. > Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Passionate interest... AUTHOR: Barb DATE: Monday, 12 April 1999, at 8:36 p.m. Response To: Passionate interest... Author: Tam W. Date: Monday, 12 April 1999, at 7:46 p.m. > Hi everyone:-) I don't get here > nearly as often as I would like since > the baby was born (she's 4 mos. old > now and to cute for words:-) so I'm > really glad I got here in time to see > this board. I really try to do interest > led learning but I'll admit I find it > hard. Right now my one daughter's biggest > interest is her little sister. She absolutely > adores the baby and "can't wait > till she can have one". Where can > I go with this??I know there must be > ways to branch off but I haven't really > thought of them. Hope you guys can help!:-) > Thanks...Tam W. How would she enjoy helping mom with photographs, videoing, writing down the cute things her new little sister can do which includes her. My one son loved hooking up the video camera to the TV and watch himself helping video his little sister. He was 5. That was 10 years ago. We watch them now and it is a priceless production. Congrats Tam, and enjoy. Barb ======================================== MESSAGE: SIM City is our core curriculum right now AUTHOR: Pam J. DATE: Monday, 12 April 1999, at 11:57 p.m. As usual, I have been enjoying reading everyone's posts on this great subject. Here is what we did last week, definitely NOT your typical homeschooling curriculum as you will see... My 7 yr old son, being a very active, right-brained, computer-nerd-wanna-be, did nothing but play SIM City (the popular simulated city-building computer game) and now, as of last week Friday, he has started playing Civilization: Call to Power (beginning with the dawn of civilization, you are to explore, settle, build, manage, and defend your cities as time and the centuries march ever onward). We have done absolutely no language arts, no math, no structured anything the whole of last week. I decided to let him follow his bliss, so to speak...just to see what would happen. My rationale was that we could always go back to learning-as-usual later if we needed to. Wow, has it been an amazing eye-opening week! I didn't realize how well he could read all on his own! I have lost track of how many words he has asked me to define for him, for example, he wanted to know what "providential" meant, which led to a whole discussion about the definition and the subject of "providence". On another occasion, while trying to explain the Civilization game to a little friend of his, I overheard him pointing out the word "knight" to him on the screen and saying, "Oh by the way, that word sounds just like "night", only the K is silent!" *proud grin* But what I was prouder of was the fact that he was sensitive enough (to his pal's easily bruised ego) to add, "Oh, but you probably ALREADY knew that!" Although these games are not educational per se, they seem to be turning lots of little lights on in his head! Now all of a sudden, Taylor wants me to haul out ALL the books I borrowed from the library last week, especially the ones about Castles, Knights, and explorers since NOW he has an interest in these subjects! What a difference a computer game makes! He is reading more books AND reading the text on the monitor! He has even started keeping the dictionary right next to his keyboard so that I can more quickly explain whatever word he can't figure out for himself. He has figured out many new words on his own through context clues. On Sunday I bought him some of the Usborne Time Travellers books (Rome and Romans, Viking Raiders, etc.), and he's been pouring over them! Would you believe while watching Disney's animated feature, Hercules last night, he asked if old "Herc" was a real person...which of course led to a discussion of Greek mythology which he is now eager to tackle as well. His words were, "Wow, Mom, this stuff is all HISTORY, isn't it? I just LOVE history!" Bear in mind that both of these games are not your typical computer game fare for a seven year old. My guess is that the programs are best suited for 12 years and up. I DO have to sit with him (especially with the Civilization game which is VERY complicated to understand and navigate), BUT it has been well worth the effort! Certainly a lot more fun than pushing him to do just a few more math problems and getting another gray hair to show for my nagging! Does this mean that I will never have him practice his handwriting/penmanship again in his workbook, or that I have thrown all the math manipulatives out the window? No, I am not that brave...not YET! But I am certainly humbled by his huge appetite to learn and explore the world around him. By taking the time to be still, sit back, and observe him at play/work I see so clearly that the learning is truly happening ALL the time. Oh I forgot to mention that today we went to Toys-R-Us to buy him the electronic keyboard he has been begging for. As I type this he is happily banging away. Maybe watching Beethoven Lives Upstairs was a good idea after all! Who knows what this will lead to? He does seem more interested in going to concerts now than he used to be. He also listens quietly and intently to whatever is playing on the car radio now, which he never used to do! He even comments on what songs he likes or doesn't like and why. Since putting the math workooks aside, would you believe this kid asked his dad to let him bring the calculator to the grocery store so he could tally up all the goods? No prodding on our part, it was all his idea. Not to mention that he keeps trying to figure out what time it is all by himself now. Then again, maybe it's because I refuse to tell him unless he at least gives it a try, first! LOL! In my heart I am convinced that children deserve our trust and support to find their own way to what THEY need to know. There is no Scope and Sequence on earth that could ever keep up with their unique, God-given learning curve. Many thanks to all of you ladies and gentlemen who have kept me sane throught this, our first year of homeschooling! Where would we all be without each other? :-) Pam ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Just stand back? AUTHOR: Cindee DATE: Tuesday, 13 April 1999, at 4:33 a.m. Response To: Just stand back? Author: Ann in NC Date: Sunday, 11 April 1999, at 8:26 p.m. > > Geez, this sounds great as it is, > Cindee...he's using consumer math skills > to save up for what he wants tobuy, > he's got projects -- i.e. the BMX videos. > He's willing to practice a new instrument.... > Thanks for your response, Ann! I've been reading your posts with interest for more than a year now, especially as you're fellow Clonlarans! > I'm confused on whether your son > came up with these ideas, or you did, > or both of you did together. They all > sound rather overwhelming to me, so > I can't particularly comment. But I > would just let him do what he wants > to do. If he is longing to do any of > them, I'd try to help him find the person > he needed to talk to. But beyond that, > I'd let him do it and I'd try to stay > out of the way. OTOH, if those aren't > things he really wants to do, then I > wouldn't try to have him do them just > to be educational. It might diminish > his real love of the subject. To answer your questions (I'll try to be brief, but it's hard!)—my son came up with some of the ideas and I came up with some of them. The more ambitious ideas were undoubtedly mine! However, the list came out of a brainstorming session—I really don't expect he'll want to try all of it! :-) These were his ideas---getting a job at a bike shop, having his own shop or bike parts company some day, filming commercials and videos, designing logos and ads, building a scale model of a bike park, constructing bike trails, etc. His overriding desire (just saw that pun!) is to become a sponsored BMX pro rider. Or maybe a cameraman. Anything but sitting behind a desk in a little cubicle—he physically shudders when he visits his dad's office! > Does he want to go to college? > Does he realize what he'll need to do > that -- my daughter wasn't particularly > thrilled with studying some of the math, > but she knew she needed it to get into > college. But beyond some math and verbal > skills, there isn't much you absolutely > NEED for college. If your son knows > how to find out about BMX bikes, or > photography, or whatever, that means > he can read and research. So he'll have > the ability to do college work. At this point he's not sold on the idea of college. Some of that is fear of the unknown, some an aversion to book work—but he does accept that college should at least be an option, so he's working on a more-or-less academic track including Geometry, Biology and German. A lot of his German comes naturally in hours of conversation every day with his native-German-speaking bike buddies, but he makes lots of grammatical errors, so I have him do 30 minutes of grammar work every day. He reads German BMX magazines and catalogs, too. He enjoys Geometry some days and some chapters, especially doing constructions—but tries to skip the proofs at every opportunity! Well, maybe that helps you have a better idea of where we're at. We're not in a desperate situation, but things could be more "delightful" around here! Cindee ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Flying through the air, with the wind on his face! AUTHOR: Cindee DATE: Tuesday, 13 April 1999, at 4:38 a.m. Response To: Re: Flying through the air, with the wind on his face! Author: Cerelle Date: Monday, 12 April 1999, at 7:23 a.m. > Now I have a question about the > fellow homeschooler whose comment threw > you into a tailspin last week. Did you > ask for her advice? If not, why is she > in a position to criticize your homeschooling > style? Or, to put it another way, do > you wish your son were more like her > kids? If you truly admire this woman's > family and children, then I guess it > would make sense to try to emulate her > methods -- otherwise, I just wouldn't > worry about it. Cerelle, you asked about the conversation with the "other" homeschooler. She is a wonderful person, more experienced than I in both homeschooling and parenting, but we don't know each other too well yet. I don't think I'd want to copy what she's doing—her kids are very different from mine. The subject came up during a phone conversation. Looking back, it was probably not what she said, but how she said it that bothered me—ain't that almost always the case?! (You, for instance, have a remarkable gift for zeroing in on a problem and pointing it out in such an encouraging and positive way!) However, WHAT she said did get me to start thinking and researching, trying to clarify what's been going wrong. By "goals," I think she meant pretty much what you mentioned above. By "planning," she meant planning daily lessons. I do think it's good > to have goals, in a general sense. I > think it's important to have a certain > direction in mind -- do you want to > encourage creativity in your children, > or hard work, or both? Do you want to > foster an intellectual, studious mindset > or is it more important to you that > your children learn about the natural > world directly, by spending lots of > time outdoors? See what I mean? I think > once we've figured out what's really > important to us, it's easier for us > to determine how we want to proceed. I'd like him to become more independent of me—we're in the old "do-it-for-me-but-not-THAT-way" syndrome I've seen discussed on this board. Giovanna said something recently that applies to our situation—if he's satisfied with having Mom plan his education, then he's not becoming a self-motivated learner. That hits home! I'd also like him to be able to develop his great creative gifts or his electronic/mechanical talents. (This is the child, who, when his Nintendo 64 was plugged into the wrong electrical current and fried, opened it up and replaced the burned wire to fix it!) He's intuitively creative, not at all analytical or intellectual. He's interested in learning "school" subjects, but not in doing independent research in those subjects. He'll work long hours on his own pursuits, but not on assignments. Enough for now! Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts! Cindee ======================================== MESSAGE: Wow, Pam! AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Tuesday, 13 April 1999, at 5:46 a.m. Response To: SIM City is our core curriculum right now Author: Pam J. Date: Monday, 12 April 1999, at 11:57 p.m. What a beautiful story -- a beautiful ILLUSTRATION of what we've been talking about. This is what often happens when we set children free -- they really take off. Your post did start me wondering if there might not be some hidden variables operating behind the scenes. You mentioned that the computer games he's playing aren't usually recommended for a 7yo, and yet you weren't stopped by that. You let yourself be guided by your own familiarity with your son, his abilities and interests, rather than by the suggested age range on the box. That's SO important, I think. Part of setting kids free to soar is taking off some of those age-based expectations. I've seen evidence of this over and over again around here. Back when Hunter was about 6, I found a really cool electronics kit (brand-new!) at a garage sale. The recommended age was much older than 6, but Hunter had already been showing an interest in electronics, and I thought I'd buy it anyway (since it was such a good deal) and just hang onto it until he was old enough to appreciate it. Well, he wasn't about to let that thing sit on a closet shelf for several years until he was "old enough" to start playing with it, no sirree. He wanted to jump in and get his hands dirty right away. "But Hunter," I said, "this instruction manual is pretty hard to read. There are a lot of really big, scientific words in it." Hunter was his ever-logical self. He said, "If I come to a word I don't know, you can help me with it, can't you?" Duh. That's what I always did with anything ELSE he was reading -- why not the electronics kit manual? At 13, he still remembers that old kit with a throb of affection and nostalgia. There were about 100 projects you could make with it, and I think he made most of them before the kit (tragically) got ruined in a flood. Oh, the other thing I wanted to tell you, Pam, is that we just bought SIM City last week! Hunter's been wanting it forever and ever, but until this month, we didn't have a computer that was powerful enough to run it. I discovered that I still have a hard time keeping my nose out of his business sometimes. When he showed me his first city, I was horrified to see that he'd included nuclear plants. Eek! I went off on an anti-nuclear rant that lasted half an hour. After that, he installed solar power stations, but his cities kept having power shortages. Oh, well... :-D Great post, Pam -- thanks! Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Oh no! That's NOT what I meant to do, Tam! AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Tuesday, 13 April 1999, at 6:36 a.m. Response To: You got me thinking...(LONG) Author: Tam W. Date: Monday, 12 April 1999, at 8:14 p.m. Gosh, Tam, the idea was to encourage everyone to stop worrying so much -- where did I go wrong??? I think part of the problem is that your oldest is 9 and my youngest is 13. A typical delight-directed day around here couldn't possibly look the same as one at your house. Still, it's hard for me to believe that your girls have never run into the house with a bug in jar and wanted to know what it was. Or that on a trip to the library, they didn't find any books or magazine articles about things they were interested in knowing more about. Think! I'm sure you're just overlooking a lot of stuff that seems too obvious to "count." We take for granted those things that happen every day, but they're part of the pattern. And as for play -- oh my goodness, don't get me started! Play is INTEGRAL to education, in my opinion. Play is a child's WORK. Your girls are still so young -- they need to play, they SHOULD spend a lot of time playing (and by the way, isn't it wonderful that they enjoy playing together?). Toys are chock-full of physics. The backyard is chock-full of biology and botany and geology. Make no mistake -- the kids are learning while they're playing, even if they don't realize it. The other thing is that a consuming interest/passion doesn't always look academic (dare I say this again without getting pelted for redundancy?). Tam, I have a 16yo whose biggest thrill is cooking. I'm just guessing, but I'd bet that 9 out of every 10 books she's read this year have been cookbooks. I have definitely allowed her to follow this passion, nearly to the exclusion of everything else this year. In spite of this, she's way ahead of most of her age-peers in school. In the course of devoting herself to the culinary arts, she's been picking up a lot of other stuff. I've run out of time (heading into town this morning), but there's more I want to say about this. Later, OK? Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Has anyone seen the movie HARRIET THE SPY? AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Tuesday, 13 April 1999, at 7:52 a.m. We saw it the other day. Interesting from a parent/home educator point of view. The girl in this movie had an incredible passion for writing. Sadly the only one who understood her was her babysitter. She encouraged her to write about whatever she observed. She was an incredible mentor. I won't go too much into the details of the movie here but I just wanted to point out that Harriet's parents even took this child to a psychologist because they thought that her passion for writing was "strange." All I could think in my mind was how hung up and worried we get about making sure our children will turn out well rounded, perfect but all of the time totally missing the uniqueness in our children. So let's OPEN OUR EYES folks! Maybe your children aren't exhibiting any interests and passions. Maybe they are yet too little OR maybe we have such a deep agenda set out for them that we are the very stumbling block keeping them away from really becoming excited about something. Maybe we should all rent this movie??? :-) ======================================== MESSAGE: to Barbara AUTHOR: Teresa DATE: Tuesday, 13 April 1999, at 9:30 a.m. Response To: Re: challenged,stretched and interested!!!! Author: Barb Date: Saturday, 10 April 1999, at 8:38 p.m. Yes, I may have an edge when it comes to curriculum ;but I'm beginnig to understand that if my teacher head gets in the way of my mother's heart, I'm going to miss out on so much of the beauty of homeschooling......Praying that God(who called me and equipped me as a teacher and mother) will help me to find the right balance. In Him, Teresa ======================================== MESSAGE: The China Syndrome? AUTHOR: Pam J. DATE: Tuesday, 13 April 1999, at 11:51 a.m. Response To: Wow, Pam! Author: Cerelle Date: Tuesday, 13 April 1999, at 5:46 a.m. > Oh, the other thing I wanted to > tell you, Pam, is that we just bought > SIM City last week! Hunter's been wanting > it forever and ever, but until this > month, we didn't have a computer that > was powerful enough to run it. I discovered > that I still have a hard time keeping > my nose out of his business sometimes. > When he showed me his first city, I > was horrified to see that he'd included > nuclear plants. Eek! I went off on an > anti-nuclear rant that lasted half an > hour. After that, he installed solar > power stations, but his cities kept > having power shortages. Oh, well... > :-D Oh Cerelle, I almost fell out of my chair laughing when I read this! One of the first things Taylor did when he started playing was to buy nuclear reactors for his city (is it the testosterone, or what?), but after a discussion of the pros and cons of nuclear power he opted for, would you believe...WINDMILLS! Ha Ha! Not a bad idea, but also not a good idea either if you place the darn things in the middle of town surrounded by skyscrapers! He had to discover for himself, the hard way, that windmills have to be built high up on hills!!! LOL! Oh well, live and learn. At least our kids get to experience in a simulated way, the consequences of such important choices. Why not tell Hunter to build the nuclear reactors all over town, then when the simulated earthquake hits (it will at some point, it's part of the program), he will get to see for himself the level of destruction that is left behind! Just for the record, Taylor now opts for gas power plants instead of the windmills. He also gets the recycling centers whenever possible. Now you've got me thinking that encouraging those reactors might be a valuable learning experience after all! Uh oh! I could on and on about SIM City, it is a great program in my view. I have noticed that as a SIM City Mayor, my dear son has a tendency to try to meet ALL the needs/demands of his people, which leads to over-spending and inevitably---fiscal disaster! This has sparked several good discussions about his strong need to please people (even simulated ones!). He is beginning to understand that life is filled with hard choices, that you can't please everyone, that sometimes you have to postphone instant Mayoral gratification so that you can get out from under a mountain of debt, OR risk losing ALL your voters when they flee the city for greener pastures!!! It may not be for everyone, and we certainly do lots of other things round the old homestead here, but right now, SIM City and CIVILIZATION are great jumping off points for all the other learning that life has to offer! P.S. I don't own stock in any of these CD-rom companies! :-) Pam ========================================Back to the TopBack to the Digest Index