Digests from the KALEIDOSCAPES MONTHLY TOPIC
(HOMESCHOOLING) DISCUSSION BOARD
These are the original digests from Kaleidoscapes' MONTHLY TOPIC discussion boards.
They were hosted by two amazing gals: Giovanna Gomez and Cerelle Woods Simmons.
The boards are no longer available (thus, links to them won't work); you can, however, still
find many of the same wonderful folks who posted on the boards at Network 54.
Finally, there are no banners or pop-up ads throughout these digests.
Hopefully you will consider shopping through our Amazon links occasionally.
(Thanks!)
Back to the Digest Index
HOMESCHOOLING BOYS: THE JOYS AND
CHALLENGES (Part 2)
#82: My sensitive son (longish :o) (Katie in VA)
#83: Soul of a poet (Jamie(nodding h)
#85: Re: Did somebody say "Reluctant"? (long) (Susan)
#87: Re: Mama's boys (longish) (Susan)
#88: Tell me more about him, please! (Katie in VA)
#89: Mattie,one of my favorite subjects(long) (Jamie)
#90: Boys and hard work (Giovanna)
#91: The impact of movies (Katie in VA)
#92: The men in my life (Melissa in FL)
#93: Re: Mama's boys (longish) (Maureen)
#95: When I was expecting my 4th... (AnnaM)
#96: Re: Jump start on channeling all that energy! (Lee)
#97: Re: The impact of movies (Jamie)
#100: Cub Scouts/ Boy Scouts (Melissa in FL)
#101: Re: The men in my life (Mary)
#102: Leg clinger (denise in china)
#103: I have 2 leg clingers! more (Danielle)
#104: Re: Leg clinger (Maureen)
#106: Re: The men in my life (Tonya)
#107: I have 3 boys, and finally a girl! (notvmom)
#108: Re: The men in my life (Mary)
#109: Re: The men in my life (Tonya)
#110: manners (Kristen AKA cur)
#111: reluctant boys and finding your path (LizMessick)
#112: Re: reluctant boys and finding your path (Annette)
#113: I have 4 boys... (Sheila)
#115: To remove their hats indoors. (Lee)
#118: thank you, annette (LizMessick)
#119: Re: reluctant boys and finding your path (Giovanna)
#120: Re: manners (Giovanna)
#121: How to teach them manners (Stephanie)
#122: Gardens, weeds, and other springtime musings (Cerelle)
#123: Re: How to teach them manners (Cerelle)
#124: Re: reluctant boys and finding your path (Mary)
#125: Re: reluctant boys and finding your path (Cerelle)
#127: Sticking to it (Giovanna)
#129: Re: How to teach them manners (Giovanna)
#130: Re: Sticking to it (Cerelle)
#131: Re: Sticking to it (Giovanna)
#132: Re: Sticking to it (Cerelle)
#133: sound affects... (Maureen)
#136: Re: How to teach them manners (Maureen)
#137: I like your gardening analogy! (Maureen)
#138: Re: Sticking to it (Maureen)
#139: Re: I have 4 boys... (Maureen)
#140: Samuel Armas (Maureen)
#141: Re: How to teach them manners (Stephanie)
#142: Re: Samuel Armas (Anita)
#143: boys and physical acting out (celeste)
#146: Finding what works. . . (dmx)
#147: Re: boys and physical acting out (michelle)
#149: HA! "Bombastic pontificating" -- is this a BOY thi (Cerelle)
#150: I just thought of something (Giovanna)
#151: Re: Cub Scouts/ Boy Scouts (Susan M)
#152: Re: How to teach them manners (Susan M)
#153: I think the trouble might be perfectionism! (Cerelle)
#156: OH NO! (Giovanna)
#157: Re: I think the trouble might be perfectionism! (Giovanna)
#158: Re: Gardens, weeds, and other springtime musings (Kim from Sidetr)
#159: Re: Experienced HSer, just starting with 7th grade (Cerelle)
#160: Re: I think the trouble might be perfectionism! (Cerelle)
#162: Re: I think the trouble might be perfectionism! (Giovanna)
#163: Re: Experienced HSer, just starting with 7th grade (Annette)
#164: Re: OH NO! (Susan M)
#165: A page of helpful links (about perfectionism) (Cerelle)
#166: Patience for the sound effects (dawne)
#167: Re: HA! "Bombastic pontificating" -- is this a BOY (dmx)
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#82) My sensitive son (longish :o)
AUTHOR: Katie in VA
DATE: Saturday, 8 April 2000, at 2:57 p.m.
My 7yo is a sensitive, intuitive, intelligent boy who hates competition. For
the brief time he was in school, he was teased, and he is horrible at team
sports (he also has motor delays). He's active and creative and friendly, and
has a strong sense of right and wrong. His father is a bit authoritarian, and
winds up hurting my son's feelings a lot. My son can't watch a lot of the
shows his peers/friends watch, because he has nightmares and many fears. When
we go to the video store, he covers his eyes, because the video boxes are
often graphic/scary. I bought him a neat book about great white sharks for his
birthday and agonized over the 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" photo of a man with a shark
bite. I don't want to upset my son, but I don't want him to be unable to
function or ever fearful that he can't handle some harshness. I felt the shark
book would give him a relatively safe way to experience something
unsettling/scary and learn to deal with the feelings that come up. I
experience my son as an old soul. Someone who was born with wisdom. He has
been questioning me about why his grandfather left his grandmother (my parents
divorced when I was 13). He wanted to know if grandpa had promised grandma he
would be with her forever (as a character in a fairytale we were reading had
promised to his bride). I told my son that grandpa and grandma were unable to
work out a way to stay together and be happy, and then I assured him that his
father and I were very happy together. We were sitting on my bed and my son
turned to me and looked into my eyes with such intensity and said (referring
to my father), "He broke your heart didn't he?" I got big tears in my eyes and
nodded yes. Then my son leaned over and held me for several seconds and then
snuggled at my side, quietly pointing for me to continue reading the story. It
was an amazing moment. Anyway, I just wish I could protect him from the
harshness of the world, but I know I can't. Thanks for "listening" to my
story. I love boys!!!! Katie
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#83) Soul of a poet
AUTHOR: Jamie(nodding h
DATE: Saturday, 8 April 2000, at 11:18 p.m.
Reply To: (#82) My sensitive son (longish :o)
Author: Katie in VA
Date: Saturday, 8 April 2000, at 2:57 p.m.
I have always said my oldest son has a poet's soul. He is also very sensitive
and tenderhearted. He only wants to know of beauty and happiness. He takes
everything to heart and gets very emotional during movies and things. BUT he
is also the most wonderful caregiver when it comes to babies. At 10 years old
he is the favorite at church for the under 3 crowd.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#85) Re: Did somebody say "Reluctant"? (long)
AUTHOR: Susan
DATE: Sunday, 9 April 2000, at 8:03 a.m.
Reply To: (#48) Did somebody say "Reluctant"? (long)
Author: Susan
Date: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 9:27 a.m.
Cafi, Barbara,
Thanks for your help. Wanted to post a "thanks" sooner but have had trouble
getting to this board the last couple of days. I do love this group and am
always so grateful y'all are here when I need help.
Susan
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#87) Re: Mama's boys (longish)
AUTHOR: Susan
DATE: Sunday, 9 April 2000, at 11:13 a.m.
Reply To: (#70) Re: Mama's boys
Author: Maureen
Date: Friday, 7 April 2000, at 1:36 a.m.
Hi! Your son sounds like a great kid with varied interests and enough sense
and courage to know and express his own tastes. I think you might need to
remind Dad that pink is just a color, and liking it is just a matter of
taste--not a signifier of future alternative lifestyles, LOL!
BTW, when I was a baby, Mama tells me that ALL babies wore pink gowns (long
before sonograms told parents what to expect months ahead ;-). Pink is a sweet
color of love, which has no gender preference...the day gowns made diapering
easier on moms, in the days before Pampers, teehee.
....maybe Dad also needs reminding that all normal men have feminine elements
and all normal women have masculine elements--because we all need those parts
of ourselves sometimes.
As to when to intervene--I would step in anytime it seems like Dad is teasing
or shaming the boy because of an innocent expression of taste or interest, and
perhaps suggest that Dad examine his own fears before making potentially
harmful remarks to your son. ;-)
I have two sweet sensitive boys also, who sometimes appreciate things that our
male-dominated culture regards as feminine--in between tree-climbing,
rock-throwing, and worm-digging sessions, LOL!
I wonder why, on one hand, our culture holds up so many men as the greatest
musicians/composers in Western history, yet some among us will ridicule boys
who love or excel in music. I wonder why paid professional gardeners are
traditionally male but a boy who loves flowers is teased.... There are so many
examples of this kind of craziness that I cannot understand or explain. Anyone
got any ideas?
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#88) Tell me more about him, please!
AUTHOR: Katie in VA
DATE: Sunday, 9 April 2000, at 12:24 p.m.
Reply To: (#83) Soul of a poet
Author: Jamie(nodding h
Date: Saturday, 8 April 2000, at 11:18 p.m.
Does your son watch action/adventure movies or anything scary? If so, how old
was he when he was able to tolerate it? (Not that I'm going to expose my son
to troubling things intentionally, but what if he's invited to a friend's
house and they want to watch Jurassic Park, for example. Any times when your
son's sensitivity hurt him and troubled him for a period of time? Thanks.
Katie
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#89) Mattie,one of my favorite subjects(long)
AUTHOR: Jamie
DATE: Sunday, 9 April 2000, at 2:23 p.m.
Reply To: (#88) Tell me more about him, please!
Author: Katie in VA
Date: Sunday, 9 April 2000, at 12:24 p.m.
Mattie does not watch anything on TV or movies that are at all scary. When he
was about 5 my mil and I took him to see Homeward Bound, the Incredible
Journey. He sobbed for the last half of the movie. He was so concerned about
the pets getting home and the kids missing their pets. He went to kindergarten
at a Christian school and the only time he got in trouble was when he defended
a smaller girl from a bigger kid in his class. She was being tormented by this
bigger boy and Mattie (who was as big as the boy) knocked him down because he
was upsetting Shelby. He definatly wears his heart on his sleeve. I guess I
worry about him being hurt to easily or worrying to much about things. He is
prone to stomach troubles and I think it is due to his worrying about things.
If I look the least bit upset he is all concerned and fussing over me. There
have been times when he had to go against the flow. When grandma took them to
the video store to rent a game Andre(our boy from Belarus who spends the
summer with us) rented Mortal Combat because he recognized it from commercials
at home. Grandma didn't know one game from another. As soon as they got home
and Mattie realized what it was and what it was about he immediatly told his
Dad. Dad took it back to the store and exchanged it. When Andre broke his arm
2 summers ago Mattie cried more than Andre did and would not leave Andre's
side until they set the arm. When my dh grandmother died last Fall Mattie
cried,not because he would miss her but because he felt so bad for his
grandfather losing his mommy. He said"I know she is in heaven with God and she
is ok, but Poppie will miss his mommy." Despite the fact that sometimes his
tender-heartedness causes him pain,Mattie has a great capacity for compassion
and I really think that someday God will use that in a great way.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#90) Boys and hard work
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Sunday, 9 April 2000, at 6:51 p.m.
Reply To: (#68) what is your "balance?"
Author: Maureen
Date: Thursday, 6 April 2000, at 2:06 a.m.
: One thing I've heard is that school is rather a
: "break" or "relief" for
: kids with decent workloads beyond their
: school requirements...for instance, I've
: heard this rule of thumb...1/3 work
: (chores), 1/3 school/study, 1/3 freetime. At
: ten, it seems most boys would definitely
: benefit from the work. I've heard many
: homeschool families do chores first, then
: the kids get physically worked a bit first
: and are looking forward to some school and
: study.
I know a family (of quite a large number of children) who work their boys hard
around the house. Now I don't know if their willingness to help and cooperate
on household chores and just work in general stems from the fact that the
children in that household start chores at TWO or what but it's amazing to see
this family in action.
The mom has always said that her boys have all of this extra energy and
working on chores has been a great way to channel that energy and she claims
the same thing..... after chores they are ready and willing to do their
schoolwork!
Giovanna
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#91) The impact of movies
AUTHOR: Katie in VA
DATE: Sunday, 9 April 2000, at 8:41 p.m.
Reply To: (#89) Mattie,one of my favorite subjects(long)
Author: Jamie
Date: Sunday, 9 April 2000, at 2:23 p.m.
I remember being devastated by movies when I was a child. My parents took me
to Bonnie and Clyde, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid and others that were
upsetting/violent. I've never forgotten them. I can't imagine allowing my son
to see those movies as a young child! He was at a babysitter's house one time
and when I picked him up I asked him how his day went. He said he spent the
afternoon behind the couch. When I asked why, he said another boy had brought
Jurassic Park and the sitter let him watch it. Poor kid. He had nightmares for
weeks.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#92) The men in my life
AUTHOR: Melissa in FL
DATE: Sunday, 9 April 2000, at 10:23 p.m.
I had three brothers growing up, so I am familiar with the level of chaos that
boys bring. I feel sorry for the ladies raising these alien creatures who
don't have that experience under their belts.
My guys are 8, 10, and 12, and the other day I noticed the extension ladder
propped up against the tallest pine tree in the yard. They had climbed up and
hung a tire swing. It must have been almost 30 feet up. Most of the time they
aren't actually doing life-threatening stuff, but there is plenty of rough and
tumble.
Boys work things out physically, rather than by talking things out.
The main thing I've learned is to pick my battles. My guys are respectful,
polite, and generally pleasant to be around. Their rooms vary from OK to
call-the-health-department, and their study habits aren't. They wear out or
tear up their clothes faster than they outgrow them (and these days, that's
saying a LOT) but they eat what's put in front of them without whining that
they don't like that, or they don't eat it - and still don't whine. (this is
going to be a big help when we travel to France this summer)
They run around the house WAY too much (sometimes I think I never should have
child-proofed the house - they are WAY too used to a kid-friendly place.) They
fight and whenever one has something to share his brothers are the first
people he calls.
The Mother's Almanac said that there is a special place in heaven for the
mothers of three boys. I just hope it's not TOO quiet. I've gotten used to a
bit of commotion.
They drive me crazy, and make me laugh a lot. Without a sense of humor I'd
never have made it this far.
Hang in there, ladies
Melissa in FL
(sorry for the ramblings - it's late and I took a headache pill)
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#93) Re: Mama's boys (longish)
AUTHOR: Maureen
DATE: Monday, 10 April 2000, at 2:22 a.m.
Reply To: (#87) Re: Mama's boys (longish)
Author: Susan
Date: Sunday, 9 April 2000, at 11:13 a.m.
Oh, I like those insights into colors and gardening! My hubby's grandfather is
an incredible gardener and everyone in the family admires his work, so it is a
useful point with my hubby! I would stress that my husband doesn't really
tease my son about these things, but he may exhibit that he is uncomfortable
with my son's tastes at times and simply point out in a non-threatening manner
that pink is a girl color. My son has a fairly strong independent streak, so
for the most part, I don't think it affects him too much, but even I draw the
line at painting the child's bedroom pink and lime like his sister's. :-)
So, I did mention these thoughts about the color pink (which in Europe is not
gender related also, but my hubby says those Europeans can be kinda femmy...I
hope I don't offend anyone here, he said it not me...anyhow, so that point was
moot, but I liked the one about babies). And my son is well rounded in his
interests, music, math, building machines, helping daddy work on anything he
can help with, playing with his "wormy friends" and loving babies (which
hopefully will lead to me having tons of grandkids), so I pointed that out to
dad too. I think it may have helped some.
Well, I have a full day with 3 small busy kids to care for tomorrow so I need
to hit the sack! Thank you again!
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#95) When I was expecting my 4th...
AUTHOR: AnnaM
DATE: Monday, 10 April 2000, at 7:02 a.m.
after 3 boys everybody wanted to know if we were "trying" for a girl. I told
them " no way" I know how boys work and they are wayeasier than girls. I got
my 4th boy and I am queen of the castle. I love to watch them wrestle dad and
when dad starts after me to tickle, they all come to my defense. At 10,9,8,6
they are almost too much for him now. They are also the greatest cuddlers and
my oldest was in tears last night after reading "Where the Red Fern Grows". I
love my boys and look forward to reading the posts about your boys and advice
on schooling them.
AnnaM in Belgium
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#96) Re: Jump start on channeling all that energy!
AUTHOR: Lee
DATE: Monday, 10 April 2000, at 8:34 a.m.
Reply To: (#69) Jump start on channeling all that energy!
Author: CC
Date: Thursday, 6 April 2000, at 2:05 p.m.
I remember those days! Blankets stretched across all the furniture to make
tents and tunnels. As they've gotten older, their creativity and ingenuity
have expanded. Now it's more like wind carts and snow plows. Boys are a
special blessing.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#97) Re: The impact of movies
AUTHOR: Jamie
DATE: Monday, 10 April 2000, at 8:36 a.m.
Reply To: (#91) The impact of movies
Author: Katie in VA
Date: Sunday, 9 April 2000, at 8:41 p.m.
I don't remember if Mattie saw Jurassic Park when it was on TV. We watched it
and his brothers (8yo twin boys) watched some of it, but they lose interest
pretty fast. We rent or record off AMC a lot of Marx Brothers of Bing Cosby&
Bob Hope movies. The boys really love 3 stooges(talk about violent) Compared
to some of my family we really censor our kids. My uncle(same age as me) has3
kids pretty close in age to my kids and I am appalled at the stuff they watch.
>From WWF
AUTHOR: Melissa in FL
DATE: Monday, 10 April 2000, at 2:08 p.m.
We're in our 7th year of scouting. If you get into the right pack/troop, what
a great thing for boys! The goals are age appropriate, and geared for the
1-5th graders in Cub Scouts, and the Boy Scouts head out into the woods with
DADS (primarily - at least around here it's DAD who's going backpacking in the
mountains with DS soon)
Our second son just crossed over into Boy Scouts last week, and he's so
excited. And I'm standing back, letting them do their Boy Scout thing.
Melissa in FL
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#101) Re: The men in my life
AUTHOR: Mary
DATE: Monday, 10 April 2000, at 3:50 p.m.
Reply To: (#92) The men in my life
Author: Melissa in FL
Date: Sunday, 9 April 2000, at 10:23 p.m.
The Mother's Almanac said that there is a special place in heaven for the
mothers of three boys. I just hope it's not TOO quiet. I've gotten used to
a bit of commotion.
Melissa, can't wait to meet all of these mom's of boys in heaven. If there is
a special place for mom's of three I bet there is a real "zoo" for us mom's of
five boys :-)
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#102) Leg clinger
AUTHOR: denise in china
DATE: Monday, 10 April 2000, at 7:54 p.m.
Hi, I have five kids, three boys and two girls. My older boys are 18 and 16 so
I have experience with guys :)! But the little guy who just turned three cries
terribly when I need to leave the house without him. I have three committments
a week that he can not attend and when I leave the house he cries
uncontrolably. I try to give him the attention he needs when I am home, he
loves puzzles and games and we cuddle a lot etc. I try to prepare him when I
am going to leave, but he still can't handle it well. I know he will out grow
this, but I hate to see him hurt. I am glad I don't work and have to leave
five days a week for hours at a time!!
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#103) I have 2 leg clingers! more
AUTHOR: Danielle
DATE: Monday, 10 April 2000, at 9:13 p.m.
Reply To: (#102) Leg clinger
Author: denise in china
Date: Monday, 10 April 2000, at 7:54 p.m.
My second son (age 4.75) and my third son (age 2) are both leg clingers. They
each get a leg. Fortunately, my oldest son (age 6) is not or else he would
have to hang on my back. :)
Danielle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#104) Re: Leg clinger
AUTHOR: Maureen
DATE: Monday, 10 April 2000, at 11:08 p.m.
Reply To: (#102) Leg clinger
Author: denise in china
Date: Monday, 10 April 2000, at 7:54 p.m.
I think there must be a separation anxiety issue at this age because my
daughter just turned 3 not too long ago and takes it pretty hard when I leave
her even for a little bit. She does better when she is leaving me though to go
do something fun. Maybe if you can set something up to where he feels he is
leaving you to do something fun and then you get to go...? I don't know if it
is too big a deal, I can imagine with so many kids, but it might work if you
can swing it like that. Of course, you probably already know that he can tell
you don't like it when he "hurts" and so he can play on that quite a bit
too...just remember to be careful not to betray how you feel, but calmly
reassure him that he's a big boy now and he can be brave like the big guys,
who I'm sure he adores. I had to be on bedrest last summer and in the hospital
for 2 weeks...you can imagine what my little sad sack went through.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#106) Re: The men in my life
AUTHOR: Tonya
DATE: Tuesday, 11 April 2000, at 2:00 a.m.
Reply To: (#101) Re: The men in my life
Author: Mary
Date: Monday, 10 April 2000, at 3:50 p.m.
: The Mother's Almanac said that there is a
: special place in heaven for the
: mothers of three boys. I just hope it's not TOO
: quiet. I've gotten used to
: a bit of commotion.
: Melissa, can't wait to meet all of these mom's
: of boys in heaven. If there is a special
: place for mom's of three I bet there is a
: real "zoo" for us mom's of five
: boys :-) Well, I qualify too then (5 boys), and I'd ask you to sign me up,
or tell me where to get my ticket except that some days it already feels like
I'm at the zoo! I tell them every other day they prove to me that they need a
schedule, but after reading all these contributions to the board, I think
they're just being boys! So it will help me loosen up a bit with them, esp.the
days we aren't able to get outside (frequent in north MI!) =] People used to
say "5 boys!?!" so incredulously when they were little, and I wondered "What"?
"Why are you saying that!?(that way)?!" "what's going to happen to me?!" LOL
Now I think I know what they were talking about. heehee (They're 11,9,7,5 & 3)
So all of your prayers and messages are coveted =) love them one and all, as
well as dh who is youngest in his family (sigh..see why I covet prayers!?) =]
=) Thankful, just a bit weary =)
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#107) I have 3 boys, and finally a girl!
AUTHOR: notvmom
DATE: Tuesday, 11 April 2000, at 2:47 a.m.
But this posting is about the boys. The two oldest are 13 and 11. They aren't
picky about their clothes, couldn't care less what clothes they wear, just so
there is something in the dresser when they need it, and can entertain
themselves for hours playing legos, cars, spy, whatever!! The only thing I
have a hard time dealing with are the SOUND EFFECTS! Boys can make some sounds
exactly like what they've heard them as! After several hours of this I must be
the only mom in the neighborhood who goes around yelling, STOP THE SOUND
EFFECTS! The 3yob follows around after them and has become such a character.
He joins us for school and tells everyone we meet that he is a little boy!!
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#108) Re: The men in my life
AUTHOR: Mary
DATE: Tuesday, 11 April 2000, at 9:48 a.m.
Reply To: (#106) Re: The men in my life
Author: Tonya
Date: Tuesday, 11 April 2000, at 2:00 a.m.
Tonya, you are the only other mom of 5 boys I have ever found :-) I'm glad to
know some of us are around, life is fun with all these guys isn't it. My boys
are 20,18,16,5,4.... The youngest two are adopted, most people thought that
after having three boys we would adopt girls. Well God has a sense of
humor.....both of our birthmoms had boys (LOL). I guess God figured if I had
survived three I could handle two more. Although I still think a girl would be
nice:-0
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#109) Re: The men in my life
AUTHOR: Tonya
DATE: Tuesday, 11 April 2000, at 12:11 p.m.
Reply To: (#108) Re: The men in my life
Author: Mary
Date: Tuesday, 11 April 2000, at 9:48 a.m.
: Tonya, you are the only other mom of 5 boys I
: have ever found :-) I'm glad to know some of
: us are around, life is fun with all these
: guys isn't it. My boys are 20,18,16,5,4....
: The youngest two are adopted, most people
: thought that after having three boys we
: would adopt girls. Well God has a sense of
: humor.....both of our birthmoms had boys
: (LOL). I guess God figured if I had survived
: three I could handle two more. Although I
: still think a girl would be nice:-0 Cool! Write me anytime ! =) and I still
think a girl (or 2 or 3!) would be nice too! I keep praying re: whether to
adopt 3 orphan girls we sponsor at our friends' orphanage in India!=)=)=)
Everything within me wants to go for it, but I know I need to make sure it
isn't just a "me" thing!>>Orphanage/ministry webpage =) =)>>
Link: Harvestworkers
URL:
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#110) manners
AUTHOR: Kristen AKA cur
DATE: Tuesday, 11 April 2000, at 12:12 p.m.
What do you teach your boys as far as manners go?
I have taught my boys to open doors for ladies, give their seats to the
elderly and pregnant ladies, or those with babies. Now that they have those
down pretty well, I want to work on some more of the "old fashioned" manners
that are so wonderful.
I love having boys. Sometimes they amaze me with their "antics" (raised as an
only girl child) but the faithfulness and sweetness of them is beyond
imagining.
~~(*-*)~~
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#111) reluctant boys and finding your path
AUTHOR: LizMessick
DATE: Wednesday, 12 April 2000, at 12:07 a.m.
Hi, folks! Giovanna emailed me and asked me to stop by and read the messages
here, because she knew that in the past I have posted extensively about my son
and our struggle with issues like those that many of you have talked about
here. For our story, you can read the "Unschooling Help!" digest (look in the
yellow bar to the left, under monthly topic board, and go to the digests).
For those of you who know our story, you might be interested to know that Tim
is now a freshman in high school, and this is his second year in public
school. He attends a county-wide technical high school, and is concentrating
his studies in the fields of electronics and visual communications. He is also
in an advanced program called Academic Challenge where he takes math and
English classes one day a week. For these, he has a week's worth of
assignments, which he has to do independently, working out a timetable for
their completion. He plays soccer at school and for a club team, has a very
nice girlfriend and a nice group of friends, helps coach his youngest sister's
soccer team, and gets along very well with both of his sisters (whom he
formerly bullied). He is by no means a perfect person - his "timetable" for
those weeklong assignments often involves a great deal of Sunday and Monday
cramming for the Tuesday class, and he'd probably like being able to bully his
sisters if I and they would let him get away with it! But our relationship is
friendly and fun, he has blossomed socially (he came home from an AC oral
communications class one day and told me, "Guess what, Mom? Today I found out
I'm an extrovert!"), and he gets A's and B's in school.
Some of my biggest "lessons learned" from that "bad time" involve overcoming
dependency (academic manifestations: the kid wants to do everything orally,
won't follow through with projects, can't/won't write a report or do anything
else that is long-term, or if he does do it, he does a very poor job, doesn't
bother to check over the work, doesn't seem to care if answers are wrong...)
and overempowerment (bullying, either overtly or passive-aggressively screwing
up a chore or assignment he doesn't want to do,).
I don't have another son, but I do have two younger daughters. Some
differences, off the top of my head, in how I homeschool them and in the kind
of parent I am for all of them now:
A focus on process rather than product. With my son, I was equating a perfect
product (math paper, paragraph, science experiment) with a perfect
understanding. I never asked him to find his own mistakes, or to correct
mistakes on his own.
Letting (making) them 'cure' their own boredom. When my son was young, I was
an eager-beaver let-me-at-it homeschooling mom. I couldn't wait to do all the
neat stuff I had been reading about! There was never a dull moment around
here, and consequently, my son never had the chance to make himself un-bored.
Ironically, I was a severe tv-limiter, and yet he was as dependent upon
outside forces (me) to entertain him as any dawn-to-dusk couch potato!
Walking away and shutting my mouth. I talk and explain way too much (note the
length of this post!) and have learned to back off some. This goes
hand-in-hand with letting them make and learn from mistakes.
Waiting until they beg. I was dying to teach my oldest to read (properly, of
course, with phonics), and did so with little trouble when he was four. But he
didn't much care if he learned to read or not. With my youngest, I waited
until SHE was oh-so-ready and eager to learn. Lesson 18 of Alpha-phonics was
about as far as we got before she was up and reading what she wanted. Now I'm
waiting for her to beg for piano lessons!
Drawing lines in the sand. I genuinely thought that if I did the mothering
thing right, there wouldn't be any conflict between my kids and me. And if
there was, I figured I just needed to explain it properly to them, and they'd
say, "Oh, yes, mother, I see why I can't have a cookie before dinner," and go
cheerfully on their way! I didn't figure on one kid who would die arguing for
the cookie, and one who'd snitch it when I wasn't looking, and one who'd make
me very sorry I wouldn't do what he wanted! Eventually, I came to terms with
the fact that I'm the boss, and sometimes I just draw a line and say, "Don't
cross that." Whether they like it or not.
Teaching them to laugh at themselves. All my kids took themselves way too
seriously, because I took them way too seriously. I DO take them seriously
still, but I'm more realistic, and so are they. They can laugh that some
frustrating event was orchestrated specifically to annoy them, and know that's
a big joke, whereas before, they really believed it!
Ack! I'm fuzzy brained - it's after midnight, and tomorrow is another full
day! Giovanna, I hope this helps someone. I definitely don't want to come
across as a big know-it-all here, because I'm still learning all this, making
mistakes with all my kids, and they sure aren't sterling examples of what
exemplary parenting can do!
If anybody has any comments, please email me as well as posting here. I
probably won't get back to the board much. The number of sports teams, etc.,
that my family is juggling right now is obscene!
Liz Messick
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#112) Re: reluctant boys and finding your path
AUTHOR: Annette
DATE: Wednesday, 12 April 2000, at 1:41 a.m.
Reply To: (#111) reluctant boys and finding your path
Author: LizMessick
Date: Wednesday, 12 April 2000, at 12:07 a.m.
Liz, I read your posts that are now archived during a very difficult time with
our own son last year. I printed the whole thread up and recently came across
it and read through it one more time. Your words were so encouraging but it
also was encouraging to read over it and see how far we have come this past
year. Our situations sound very similar. Ian is in ps 8th grade, wonderfully
successful, loving it, and we are involved in tons of sports also right now. I
am so glad to hear that things are progressing along so well for your family
also. It sounds like life is good at your house. Your wisdom remains a beacon
of hope. Thanks for sharing your progress and your insights. Its valuable
stuff you give.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#113) I have 4 boys...
AUTHOR: Sheila
DATE: Wednesday, 12 April 2000, at 5:22 a.m.
So, I've hit the jackpot! LOL
My son's are 9.5, 7, and 2yo twins! And right smack dab in the middle is my
4yo daughter (Who, of course, acts and looks more like a boy these days.)
Oh, some days my boys are just the hugest blessings. My oldest, who is pretty
big for his age, strong and atheletic, walked up to me yesterday and said
"Mom, I feel strange when I haven't hugged and kissed you for a long time."
Even though "a long time" could have only been since the good-night kiss the
night before. So we hugged and kissed and I told him how nice it was for him
to tell me that.
My 7 yo is less athletic and more science-minded, but is the biggest cuddle
bug. He often says, "Mom, I just want to cuddle and talk" So we lay down,
cuddle and talk about all the things that bring him joy: bugs, frogs,
reptiles, bugs, ocean creatures, etc.
And, of course, I cuddle and kiss all over the twins.
THEN ON OTHER DAYS...
The oldest two fight and wrestle around. And when they play, they fight and
wrestle around. The twins...well, they fight and wrestle around. And when they
play... they fight and wrestle around! Quite an active house, to say the
least.
Needless to say, we aren't very academically structured around here and I
pretty much follow a delight-directed/Better late than early philosophy of
homeschooling. My 9yo is just learning to read, (about 20 mins/5 days per
week)but is as quick as a whip. I haven't begun phonics with my 7 yo yet. But
because he is such a scientist, I feel it is more important to encourage his
self-directed experiments and projects. Our daily focus is usually character
training (getting along, being respectful, manners), Biblical instruction,
diligence and proficiency in chores, delight-directed activities and keeping
the twins from tearing down the house!
I love the combination God gave me!
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#115) To remove their hats indoors.
AUTHOR: Lee
DATE: Wednesday, 12 April 2000, at 9:37 a.m.
Reply To: (#110) manners
Author: Kristen AKA cur
Date: Tuesday, 11 April 2000, at 12:12 p.m.
I try to think about what their future wives might appreciate as far as their
manners and behavior. I'm having a lot of trouble with my 15 yr old ds
remembering to remove his hat indoors. It doesn't help that his grandmother
never taught his father not to be so rude in this regard.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#118) thank you, annette
AUTHOR: LizMessick
DATE: Wednesday, 12 April 2000, at 8:49 p.m.
Reply To: (#112) Re: reluctant boys and finding your path
Author: Annette
Date: Wednesday, 12 April 2000, at 1:41 a.m.
Your words are very kind. I know that changing his and my ways of interacting,
and that sending him to school, have been life-changing for all of us. School
isn't an unequivocal success - although we have school choice, I don't like
most of the "choices" we get! And I wish he were more challenged - sometimes,
I think he gets good grades merely because he looks good in comparison to some
of the other kids, and that is hardly what I want to foster in a kid whose
natural bent is toward doing as little as possible while still looking good.
Some of his friends think he is so lucky because I consider perfect attendance
something to avoid, not aspire toward! (The x number of days you're allowed to
miss? We save them up in case of illness, but toward spring, he gets lots of
"mental health" days - like his birthday, and his sisters' birthdays, and the
day "The Phantom Menace" came out on video....)
He has the option to homeschool if ever he wants it, but I don't think he
will. He loves the space that being at school gives him, the place of his own,
so to speak. He has access to equipment and training in technical areas (He
goes to a technical high school) that I would find hard to duplicate with any
regularity unless he could get an apprenticeship. His electronics class gives
him great training, but is also quite flexible, with loads of lab access, and
the instructor encourages kids to follow their own tangents. So, it is okay
there, and life is good.
I'm glad to hear that things are going well with your son, also.
Liz, home from music class and getting a quick board-fix!
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#119) Re: reluctant boys and finding your path
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Wednesday, 12 April 2000, at 10:51 p.m.
Reply To: (#111) reluctant boys and finding your path
Author: LizMessick
Date: Wednesday, 12 April 2000, at 12:07 a.m.
My son is somewhat reluctant to working on long projects and some times
exhibits the hehaviors you described. He is only 8 so I'm not sure if this is
just an age issue or something else developing. How could I know? What should
I look for? What can I do NOW to help him>
Something I'm doing which may help..... I've developed checklists for him. Now
I don't have to nag. It's there for him and he knows what he has to do.
Giovanna
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#120) Re: manners
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Wednesday, 12 April 2000, at 10:54 p.m.
Reply To: (#110) manners
Author: Kristen AKA cur
Date: Tuesday, 11 April 2000, at 12:12 p.m.
Opening doors for ladies is a such a nice manner to have. I have been teaching
that to my son.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#121) How to teach them manners
AUTHOR: Stephanie
DATE: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 9:00 a.m.
Reply To: (#110) manners
Author: Kristen AKA cur
Date: Tuesday, 11 April 2000, at 12:12 p.m.
I am having problems teaching table manners to my seven year old. Even when he
appears to be following the "rules", it is just appalling. He is so polite and
considerate in every other aspect but at the table.....He breathes heavy,
smacks his lips, whatever he drinks dribbles down his chin. He always has a
ring of food on the table around his plate. Technically yes, he does have the
napkin in his lap, one hand under , mouth closed while chewing. I am at my
wit's end. I hate constantly nagging him, I try not to unless it is way beyond
acceptable, but that seems to be a lot of the time. If I thought he would just
outgrow it, I could relax. But I am afraid that is not the case. Help!!!
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#122) Gardens, weeds, and other springtime musings
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 9:12 a.m.
Reply To: (#119) Re: reluctant boys and finding your path
Author: Giovanna
Date: Wednesday, 12 April 2000, at 10:51 p.m.
Well, Giovanna, it's spring, and I guess I can't help seeing everything in
terms of gardening. LOL! Your post made me think of how hard it is to tell
weed seedlings from young garden plants, sometimes. When plants are newly
sprouted, they all kind of look the same, especially if you've never gardened
much before.
I think it's the same with the behavior of young children. What's "normal" and
what's a sign of impending trouble? Hard to tell, sometimes, isn't it?
When you say your son is sometimes reluctant to finish "long projects," how
long do you mean? You may be thinking of a 2-hour project, and I may be
thinking "2 days," and someone else reading here may be thinking 2 weeks or 2
months. Until we define our terms, we could be talking apples and oranges.
I liked what Liz said about her earlier emphasis on product rather than
process. Finishing the things we've started is a virtue, to be sure, but
sometimes it's better to abandon a project that's not working out (or doesn't
promise to bring us much satisfaction) and cast about to find a better one. Of
course we grown-ups aren't always free to make that decision -- we can't
afford to abandon our marriages, families, or jobs, every time they fail to
bring us momentary satisfaction! But kids aren't grown-ups, either. Childhood
is when we get to experiment, I hope, and discover what we love and what we
can live without.
My experience has taught me that when kids are given a chance to choose their
own projects (instead of being forced to carry out ideas that someone else
thought up for them to do), they *eventually* find the things they love to do,
and they'll fight tooth and nail to complete those projects...working into the
wee hours, if necessary...forgetting about everything else...becoming almost
single-minded in their determination to see it through.
We don't see that kind of behavior in many 8-year-olds, though, and when we
do, it almost looks alarming. I think it's so important to remember that our
kids are *kids.* If we knew an adult who acted like an 8-year-old, we'd think
it was very inappropriate behavior, but we keep wishing our little guys would
act like adults! (Sometimes I think we grown-ups might be better off if we
acted like children a little more often, to tell you the truth!) :)
A good friend of mine reminded me this week (speaking in a totally different
context) that a weed is just a misplaced plant. I think this can be so true of
undesirable behavior, too. A lot of the time, it's just "misplaced" behavior.
A child's "stubbornness" might be called "determination" in a different
setting. His lack of carry-through might turn out to be flexibility or a
willingness to switch gears when the situation calls for it.
How can we know for sure? Tough call! If you ever figure that one out, let me
know. I like the idea of seeing our children as gardens that we tend for a few
years. Sometimes these little plants (behaviors) pop up, and we aren't sure
what they are or where they came from. Should we let them grow or nip 'em in
the bud? Or should we see how they look in some other part of the plot?
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#123) Re: How to teach them manners
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 9:40 a.m.
Reply To: (#121) How to teach them manners
Author: Stephanie
Date: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 9:00 a.m.
This reminds me of all the trouble my mother went through to try to teach me
to eat like a civilized being. I remember there was one point when she set a
mirror up in front of my place at the table -- in the erroneous belief that if
I got a glimpse of how I looked while I ate, I'd be grossed out and clean up
my act. (I'm pretty sure that didn't work, by the way.)
My husband is ultra-sensitive to smacking noises and that sort of thing at the
table. I don't even notice that sort of thing, most of the time. I guess we
all have those little things that are important to us. (Table manners were
obviously important to my mom.) Personally, I always thought it was extremely
rude of her to make a big deal about my sloppy table manners. LOL! But do you
know what I found out when I grew up? Mama's table manners aren't exactly
perfect! Maybe I was just copying her. :-D
Seriously, I think the best way to teach good manners is to display them
ourselves and trust that our children will eventually emulate our good
example. Harping and nagging don't cut it. When we do that, all we're teaching
the kids is how to harp and nag. We've all known moms who continually reminded
their children of all the polite things to say to people. "Say 'thank you.'
Say 'please.' Say 'excuse me.'" "Say 'I'm sorry.'" But in my opinion, the
best-mannered children are those whose parents have delightful manners and USE
THEM WITH THEIR CHILDREN!!! They consistently say "thank you" and "please" and
all that when speaking to their kids...and their kids soon learn to use those
same phrases in imitation.
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#124) Re: reluctant boys and finding your path
AUTHOR: Mary
DATE: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 10:22 a.m.
Reply To: (#111) reluctant boys and finding your path
Author: LizMessick
Date: Wednesday, 12 April 2000, at 12:07 a.m.
Liz, I am new to this board and I don't know how to access the post you are
talking about. Can you help out a total Kaleidoscape newby :-)
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#125) Re: reluctant boys and finding your path
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 11:09 a.m.
Reply To: (#124) Re: reluctant boys and finding your path
Author: Mary
Date: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 10:22 a.m.
Welcome to K-scapes, Mary! Here is the link to the "Unschooling Help" digest:
http://www.meglomedia.net/monthlytopic/archives/unschoolhelp1.html
Warning: It's a LONG file! You'll want to brew a big pot of tea and get
comfortable when you sit down to read it, but it will be well worth the time
spent. This was a conversation that lasted about two weeks, if I remember
correctly.
By the way, this digest is just one of many, here at Kaleidoscapes. Most of
our monthly topic discussions are also archived and are accessible from the
yellow bar at your left. Look for the words "Digests from the Monthly Topic
Board." In case you don't see it right away, here's that link:
http://www.meglomedia.net/digests
Happy reading! (And we're awfully glad you found Kaleidoscapes!)
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#127) Sticking to it
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 1:10 p.m.
Reply To: (#122) Gardens, weeds, and other springtime musings
Author: Cerelle
Date: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 9:12 a.m.
: When you say your son is sometimes reluctant to
: finish "long projects," how long
: do you mean? You may be thinking of a 2-hour
: project, and I may be thinking "2
: days," and someone else reading here
: may be thinking 2 weeks or 2 months. Until
: we define our terms, we could be talking
: apples and oranges.
To be honest with you, he doesn't really stick to anything much UNLESS it is
something he is really interested in.
Obvious. Are we all like that to some extent? Yes. I guess we are.
But in my son, sometimes I do really think it's rather extreme. Is there a way
to teach or impart the value of sticking with something and finishing it, even
if it is something you don't particularly care about?
And it isn't a matter of not having any interests. This child is very intense
when it comes to something he loves. Almost obseesive! But let's face it. Not
everything in life is wonderful. Look at me, I'm about ready to hire a
maid!!!! LOL! I won't do it though. Not because they are costly but because if
there is a maid at home then no one would need to be responsible for cleaning
their own mess and they would never learn to clean a bathroom and do laundry.
I don't know. Maybe my way of thinking isn't very rational but that's where I
am at the moment.
I guess I see a "weed" of lazyness popping through and I'm ready to pull it at
the root before it swallows my flower. :-) Anyone know how?
Any thoughts?
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#129) Re: How to teach them manners
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 3:22 p.m.
Reply To: (#121) How to teach them manners
Author: Stephanie
Date: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 9:00 a.m.
: I am having problems teaching table manners to
: my seven year old. Even when he appears to
: be following the "rules", it is
: just appalling. He is so polite and
: considerate in every other aspect but at the
: table.....He breathes heavy, smacks his
: lips, whatever he drinks dribbles down his
: chin. He always has a ring of food on the
: table around his plate.
Don't worry. This won't be like this forever. A lot of what you have described
is simply childish behavior that will disappear as he grows and matures.
Gentle and repeated reminders will do the trick. Trust me, he won't eat like
this one day when he dines in front of a pretty girl! :-)
Giovanna
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#130) Re: Sticking to it
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 10:26 p.m.
Reply To: (#127) Sticking to it
Author: Giovanna
Date: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 1:10 p.m.
: Is there a way to teach or
: impart the value of sticking with something
: and finishing it, even if it is something
: you don't particularly care about?
Giovanna, I've been thinking and thinking about this. I'm even trying to look
at it from the stodgiest, most conservative and disciplinarian point of view I
can muster (LOL), but for the life of me, I cannot figure out how ANY of us
would ever be able to find the motivation to finish a job we "don't
particularly care about." I don't think it can be done! If we do it out of
love for the person who wants us to do it, then we do care about the job . . .
for that person's sake. And if we do it out of fear (for what will happen to
us if we don't do it), then we do care about the job for that secondary
reason. And if we do it because we love the work itself, then obviously we
will have intrinsic motivation to do the job completely and well.
But there has to be SOME reason to make us care...or why would we stick with
the job?
I know sometimes Hunter does chores he doesn't enjoy because *I* am determined
that he will do them. And sometimes he does unpleasant chores because he knows
it's only fair. Sometimes he does those yucky jobs out of compassion, so no
one else will have to. Sometimes he does them because he wants to show what a
helpful guy he can be. Sometimes his motivation is pure devotion (to his
beloved dog, for instance).
But Hunter is 14, too. At 8, he believed his job was to look cute while
everyone else waited on him hand and foot! LOL! (And his big sisters were
always ready and willing. *sigh*)
: I guess I see a "weed" of lazyness
: popping through and I'm ready to pull it at
: the root before it swallows my flower. :-)
What's particularly galling is when we feel like we're knocking ourselves out,
working dawn to dusk (or even longer hours than that), while our kids enjoy
happy, carefree lives -- one lazy day after another! Believe me, I've thrown
the occasional crazed tantrum about it, too. I believe there ought to be a
balance of work in the household. (I meant to respond to that earlier post
about the value of physical work in the homeschool. The Colfaxes always had
good comments about that, I thought, in their books.) Mom shouldn't have to
carry the whole load by herself, and the kids need to understand that. (Boys
or girls, doesn't matter.)
If it sounds like I'm saying that guilt can also be a good motivator...well,
yes, I guess I am saying that. I sometimes do things I don't like to do
because I would feel guilty if I didn't do them. Why shouldn't this be true
for my children, too?
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#131) Re: Sticking to it
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 11:17 p.m.
Reply To: (#130) Re: Sticking to it
Author: Cerelle
Date: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 10:26 p.m.
: Giovanna, I've been thinking and thinking about
: this. I'm even trying to look at it from the
: stodgiest, most conservative and
: disciplinarian point of view I can muster
: (LOL), but for the life of me, I cannot
: figure out how ANY of us would ever be able
: to find the motivation to finish a job we
: "don't particularly care about."
Oh but what do we do with the laundry? Oh my gosh! There is NOTHING I hate
more than doing laundry. So why do I do it?
I have to! :-(
In thinking deeply about this I realized I have always hated to do laundry. I
do it because I'm a mature adult that knows it has to be done. LOL! That's the
only reason why!
: What's particularly galling is when we feel
: like we're knocking ourselves out, working
: dawn to dusk (or even longer hours than
: that), while our kids enjoy happy, carefree
: lives -- one lazy day after another! Believe
: me, I've thrown the occasional crazed
: tantrum about it, too.
HA! I can't stop laughing.
You nailed it right on the head!
: If it sounds like I'm saying that guilt can
: also be a good motivator...well, yes, I
: guess I am saying that. I sometimes do
: things I don't like to do because I would
: feel guilty if I didn't do them. Why
: shouldn't this be true for my children, too?
I think I'm holding out for the day when my son runs up to me and says, "Gee
mom, let me help with this" and TRULY MEANS IT or for the day when I ask him
to do something and he says, "Sure mom" without a whine and with a big smile
on his face.
Do you think that day will come?? :-)
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#132) Re: Sticking to it
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 11:42 p.m.
Reply To: (#131) Re: Sticking to it
Author: Giovanna
Date: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 11:17 p.m.
: In thinking deeply about this I realized I have
: always hated to do laundry. I do it because
: I'm a mature adult that knows it has to be
: done. LOL! That's the only reason why!
Bingo! We're mature adults! Actually, I'm sort of an immature adult, but I'm
just barely mature enough most of the time to get the laundry done before we
all have to run around in the altogether. HA! Anyway, the kids -- obviously --
are not yet mature adults, and that's why they couldn't care less about doing
laundry. But the day comes, Giovanna, the day does come . . . when the sweet
darlings voluntarily march toward the washing machine with a little wad of
dirty clothes in their arms. They'll do it when there's something they really
want to wear the next day and YOU haven't gotten around to washing it for
them.
: I think I'm holding out for the day when my son
: runs up to me and says, "Gee mom, let
: me help with this" and TRULY MEANS IT
: or for the day when I ask him to do
: something and he says, "Sure mom"
: without a whine and with a big smile on his
: face.
: Do you think that day will come?? :-)
OH YES!!! I KNOW that day will come. And what a sweet day it is when it
finally arrives. :-D
Look for little bitty indications that your son wants to be your hero and
protector now. It won't involve yucky work right now -- not at this age! But
maybe he is the brave hero who makes sure there are no "bad guys" hiding in
the back seat of your parked car. Or maybe he warns you not to go into the
garage until he's checked to make sure there are no spiders. Little things
like this are the precursors to volunteering to help you with household chores
later, strange though it sounds.
Another thing: Fathers can be VERY influential! Tomas used to give the kids
little peptalks about the importance of having a "volunteer spirit" and of
being cheerful about their chores. It really would make a difference. He would
*inspire* them to try harder by making it sound like such a good, wholesome
thing to do (rather than making them feel resentful by scolding or threatening
them).
But believe me, that day WILL come. Keep the faith!
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#133) sound affects...
AUTHOR: Maureen
DATE: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 11:50 p.m.
Reply To: (#107) I have 3 boys, and finally a girl!
Author: notvmom
Date: Tuesday, 11 April 2000, at 2:47 a.m.
I can't imagine with all those boys and their sound effects that your girl
won't make them too! He he... I have b nearly 5, g 3 and g baby and I'll tell
you, that little 3 y.o. girl, while she has certain obvious social
differences, does everything she can to compete with and challenge her big
brother. It's everything he can do to keep her from doing every single thing
he does...she makes a number of unique side effects to boot!
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#136) Re: How to teach them manners
AUTHOR: Maureen
DATE: Friday, 14 April 2000, at 12:03 a.m.
Reply To: (#121) How to teach them manners
Author: Stephanie
Date: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 9:00 a.m.
Well, how do "finishing schools" and the like teach these things? Couldn't you
simply use some sort of reward system? Simply give points for the elimination
of certain behaviors at the table and after it's been successfully attained
for 2-3 weeks, be done with the matter? Link the whole thing to bedtime, with
a base bedtime and an attainable bedtime and a couple half hour increments in
between? I don't know, just an idea. I think a seven year old could see where
improvement of table manners would benefit him under this system...now, if I
could only figure out what to do with my 3 year old daughter...(who gets more
food on the table and surrounding area than in her mouth)
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#137) I like your gardening analogy!
AUTHOR: Maureen
DATE: Friday, 14 April 2000, at 12:15 a.m.
Reply To: (#122) Gardens, weeds, and other springtime musings
Author: Cerelle
Date: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 9:12 a.m.
Lately, I've been looking at a lot of bitty seedlings too and trying to figure
out which ones I ought to "nip in the bud" tee hee...
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#138) Re: Sticking to it
AUTHOR: Maureen
DATE: Friday, 14 April 2000, at 12:28 a.m.
Reply To: (#127) Sticking to it
Author: Giovanna
Date: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 1:10 p.m.
Okay, I read through all your posts, but thought it would be easiest to post
here...here are some ideas on getting some "stick-to-it-tiveness" in your son.
Make it meaningful to him is the brunt of it. First of all, try to teach
discipline through chores more than through school. Have school be a glorious
relief from the hard work you have him do around the house. The Amish
(according to a book I recently read) say that 'til 7 your kids are work, from
7-14, they pull thier own load, by 14 they start making you a profit. Gives
you an idea of how capable an 8 year old might be huh? My 5 year old and his 3
year old sister clean their rooms together (they need the company to help them
stay happy while they work), make our bed, clear the table and high chair and
clean them, haul laundry to the washing machine, put their own clothes away,
and tidy up the living room when asked. Obviously, they don't do all these
things in one day, but I generally have them work 1-1 1/2 hours a day. With an
eight year old, you figure out what he seems to be capable of and add to it
for whining, poking around, and any other behavior that you find disagreeable.
There should be a "break" to look forward to when it's all done (which gets
eaten up by fooling around). If you plan to do school right after, it ought to
be the part where you spend time reading to him or something he really looks
forward to. I hope this helps. I know I certainly don't have an 8 year old,
but my little boy who is nearly 5 is stubborn as they come from what I've
seen.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#139) Re: I have 4 boys...
AUTHOR: Maureen
DATE: Friday, 14 April 2000, at 12:35 a.m.
Reply To: (#113) I have 4 boys...
Author: Sheila
Date: Wednesday, 12 April 2000, at 5:22 a.m.
I bet you don't get out of the house a lot! :-) With my very active kiddos, I
have to "explain" to women at my MOPS group that it finally hit me my kids
need to be at home more training and they are just too active for LONG
mornings out.
Our daily focus is usually character training (getting along, being
respectful, manners), Biblical instruction, diligence and proficiency in
chores, delight-directed activities and keeping the twins from tearing down
the house!
How could it be any other? :-) I feel I have a lot in common with you, though
you have lots of boys and I have only 1. My girl does everything to keep up
with big brother and they are VERY ACTIVE. I really identify with your focus.
I'd call it the "survival" method of homeschooling active children! Lots of
hugs (though it seems you get a million).
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#140) Samuel Armas
AUTHOR: Maureen
DATE: Friday, 14 April 2000, at 12:38 a.m.
I don't know how many of you have read the story of Samuel Armas, the little
boy who at 21 weeks gestation held his surgeon's hand. Anyway, his story seems
like a very special little boy story and I wanted to share a link I found
about him that includes information on his birth and his current health (the
news is very good!).
Link: Samuel Armas story
URL:
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#141) Re: How to teach them manners
AUTHOR: Stephanie
DATE: Friday, 14 April 2000, at 9:09 a.m.
Reply To: (#121) How to teach them manners
Author: Stephanie
Date: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 9:00 a.m.
Those are good suggestions. I really am not a control freak kinda mom. I just
feel when he gets older and eats away from home, people will judge him if he
eats like a medieval knight (sounds kinder than barbarian). With the other
children, I just nicely remind them. Every once in a while, we have a fancy
lunch with place settings and napkins and all that. We spend the whole time
talking about manners...they always want to know the why of doing things. The
rest of them are great. When I look at him at the table, I can see he is
trying and very self-conscious. Maybe that is the problem. Maybe I should just
let go and let him learn his way in peace.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#142) Re: Samuel Armas
AUTHOR: Anita
DATE: Friday, 14 April 2000, at 1:29 p.m.
Reply To: (#140) Samuel Armas
Author: Maureen
Date: Friday, 14 April 2000, at 12:38 a.m.
This was great! Thanks for the link!
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#143) boys and physical acting out
AUTHOR: celeste
DATE: Friday, 14 April 2000, at 3:37 p.m.
There are several really good books on raising boys that I have in my parent
center. They all say that boys use much more physical means of expression than
girls, and that this is just fine and normal. A light punch or fast-grab hug
is a sign of affection, and rough play is important to their sense of
connection to those they are interacting with. Of course, we don't want them
hurting each other. It's just that we need to understand that the acting out
is their way of interacting and learning about themselves.
My very senstive, hug-giving 10-yr-old can turn that hug into a "let's lift
Mom off the floor really fast" before I know it!
Gotta love 'em! :)
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#146) Finding what works. . .
AUTHOR: dmx
DATE: Friday, 14 April 2000, at 8:00 p.m.
Reply To: (#123) Re: How to teach them manners
Author: Cerelle
Date: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 9:40 a.m.
I have to thank you again for a lot of reminders throughout this month of
postings. So much of this 'parenting' stuff is trial and error and I often
forget what I've learned in the not-so-distant past! My mind sees a problem
and says, 'this is the way things should be so I'm going to make it so'. But
the result isn't usually quite what I imagined!! Your posts remind me again
and again to look for what works instead of what SHOULD work.
"Harping and nagging don't cut it." Absolutely true. I wish it would. If it
did, my 14 yo would be PERFECT!!! For me it's much easier to nag than to back
off and think. I often find myself nagging out of habit. When I pro-actively
think about a behavior that's bugging me, I can actually lay off the nagging
and with just a few words at the right time make a much bigger impact. In
fact, what I call mindful backing off - though practiced far too infrequently
around here - has almost often had immediately results. For instance, if my
son begins bombastically pontificating on some subject, silence or a
thoughtful word almost always changes his attitude. If I begin arguing with
him about the subject or about his attitude, I almost always end up
frustrated.
Let's see: nagging = frustration; thoughtful responses = change in behavior.
So, why is it I always end up nagging? Reading these posts, I've come up with
a theory. I think sometimes my nagging can be a manifestation of anxiety. I'm
not really sure if the behavior deserves a serious approach, so I take the
easy way out and pick at it. So, it's really a lack of clarity on my own part.
Oddly, my Mom ALWAYS took the more successful approach, with great wisdom. I
wonder what happened with me?????
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#147) Re: boys and physical acting out
AUTHOR: michelle
DATE: Friday, 14 April 2000, at 8:06 p.m.
Reply To: (#143) boys and physical acting out
Author: celeste
Date: Friday, 14 April 2000, at 3:37 p.m.
Aren't boys great. Who knew I would become such an expert at remaining upright
after a surprise flying leap and tackle. Let's wrestle MOM!!! I feel so
blessed to have found out about homeschooling so my normal, active boy can
read while under the coffe table, play basketball a hundred times a day when
taking a break, walk around the pool talking out loud while he reasons
something out, or just plain can's be still. He never would have been able to
sit still for long periods of time and would have been labeled a trouble
maker.
Michelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#149) HA! "Bombastic pontificating" -- is this a BOY thi
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Friday, 14 April 2000, at 11:30 p.m.
Reply To: (#146) Finding what works. . .
Author: dmx
Date: Friday, 14 April 2000, at 8:00 p.m.
ROTFL! Our 14yo sons must be a lot alike! Mine likes to pontificate, too. I am
so cracked up over here! :-D
I've seen lots of kids go through a
let-me-explain-to-you-how-the-world-operates phase at around this age. Even my
daughters did, although it looked and sounded a little bit different on them.
(They didn't have that big deep voice thing going for them, I guess.) So when
Hunter goes into his I-know-everything-about-everything routine, I just grin.
I figure he must be feeling REALLY big and grown up when he does that, and hey
-- I can afford to share a little power with him once in a while. (But I do
get a silent kick out of it.)
I really loved all the things you said in this post, by the way. GREAT points!
I especially love your observation that nagging is usually an indication of
anxiety about whether or not to take a serious approach toward a certain
behavior or not. WOW! That's heavy. And true, I think.
If you watch different mothers out in public, you see that the ones who
constantly nag and nag and nag are the ones who hardly ever PUT A STOP to the
behavior they're nagging about. Therefore the behavior remains -- therefore
they continue to nag! But I always get the feeling that if they REALLY cared,
they'd stop nagging and do something about it. And if they DON'T really care,
why don't they leave the poor kid alone??? Ha! So I think you summed it up
perfectly. Wonderful comments, dmx -- as usual.
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#150) I just thought of something
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Saturday, 15 April 2000, at 1:23 a.m.
Reply To: (#122) Gardens, weeds, and other springtime musings
Author: Cerelle
Date: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 9:12 a.m.
: When you say your son is sometimes reluctant to
: finish "long projects," how long
: do you mean?
I just thought of something.
My son does not have the stamina to finish a book once we has started it.
Today he picked up one of the MAGIC SCHOOL BUS chapter books and begged me to
buy it.
"Oh mama! I'll read it!"
What I see is that once he comes across a couple of words that he doesn't know
HE GIVES UP!
Sigh!
What do you think of that?
Do you know what the REAL problem is? He reminds a lot of myself and it scares
me a little. I'm sort of like this. Well, let me be honest and say I'm A LOT
like this. I get bored with things so easily. I can count with one hand the
projects I've started that I've actually finished. There are a couple of
things I'm very passionate about and I stick with those things to the point of
obsession. HE IS LIKE THIS! I'm not saying it's bad but I don't know. I wish I
were more consistent in things and I wish he were too.
By the way, I hardly ever finish a book either (sheepish grin). If it doesn't
grab me by the second chapter it's finished. Now I wonder how many good books
I've missed because I'm so impatient and get bored so easily.
So when you see your bad habits reflected in your son what do you do?
Hope I'm not opening a huge can of worms here! ;-)
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#151) Re: Cub Scouts/ Boy Scouts
AUTHOR: Susan M
DATE: Saturday, 15 April 2000, at 1:48 a.m.
Reply To: (#100) Cub Scouts/ Boy Scouts
Author: Melissa in FL
Date: Monday, 10 April 2000, at 2:08 p.m.
: We're in our 7th year of scouting. If you get
: into the right pack/troop, what a great
: thing for boys!
I agree. I was a den leader for 7 years, 3 with the older son, all 4 with the
second. Now my older is an Eagle Scout--just had his ceremony last month--and
the younger is Star and almost ready to go for Life. In fact we spent the day
shopping and packing food and gear for this week's pre-camporee campout which
my older son planned for the troop.
I love seeing the boys learning how to take responsibility and do for
themselves. Much less work than cub scouts! Scouting is great.
Susan M
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#152) Re: How to teach them manners
AUTHOR: Susan M
DATE: Saturday, 15 April 2000, at 1:55 a.m.
Reply To: (#129) Re: How to teach them manners
Author: Giovanna
Date: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 3:22 p.m.
: Don't worry. This won't be like this forever. A
: lot of what you have described is simply
: childish behavior that will disappear as he
: grows and matures.
Don't be so sure! My husband still smacks his food, belches at the table,
etc., so it is hard to teach the boys to eat properly. However, when we have
my father-in-law over for dinner, I can see why my husband eats that way. I
just hate to see it go on for another generation! How can I teach table
manners if I am the only one who cares?
Susan M
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#153) I think the trouble might be perfectionism!
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Saturday, 15 April 2000, at 4:03 a.m.
Reply To: (#150) I just thought of something
Author: Giovanna
Date: Saturday, 15 April 2000, at 1:23 a.m.
Everything reminds me of my mother this week. I wonder why that is! Anyway,
your post here has reminded me of two different things my mom's always said.
One is that the very traits we dislike the most in other people are usually
reflections of traits that we ourselves have. My mother taught school for
years and years, and she told me that once in a while she'd have a strong
negative reaction to a child in her class. This always bothered her -- for
obvious reasons -- and she said it often turned out that these would be
children who in some (negative) way reminded her of the child she once was!
So it doesn't surprise me that we worry overtime when we see our children
displaying characteristics which remind us of our own "shortcomings."
(Sometimes shortcomings are in the eye of the beholder, though. Maybe we
consider these things to be character flaws only because we were criticized
for them when we were young!) It's gratifying when our kids turn out to be
like us in some of the good ways, but when we see them picking up our own bad
habits...yikes! Oh no! Nip that in the bud! :)
Someone (was it Eda LeShan?) once suggested that whenever we feel rage toward
our children, it is often triggered by a behavior we once exhibited when we
were children -- behavior we were punished for. The rage we feel now (toward
our own child) is a manifestation of the rage we felt, but weren't allowed to
express, long ago when we were punished for that same behavior. I think this
is a very interesting theory, and it might explain the origin of some of the
"overreactions" we parents sometimes struggle with. Later, in a calmer and
more rational moment, we think, "Why on earth did I react that way? It was
just a messy room! He didn't hurt anyone or act cruel." Well, maybe having a
messy room was a sore spot for us when we were children ...
The conventional wisdom is that we have to learn to love and accept ourselves
in order to better love and accept other people. BUT! I believe it can work
the other way around! I really do. I think that by accepting our children
exactly as they are right now (use your own philosophical wording here -- as
Nature or God or the Universe created them), we can finally, finally, finally
begin to forgive ourselves for not being perfect, too. When I gave my kids
permission to be imperfect, I realized I didn't have to be perfect, either.
Whew! WHAT a relief.
So, Giovanna, I start 10 times as many books as I finish. SO WHAT? There are a
zillion begillion books in this world!!! Am I going to live long enough to
read them all? NO WAY! So what are we poor mortal souls to do? Start as many
as possible, and finish the ones that really grab us, of course! You've doing
it right all along. Besides, don't discount all those 1st and 2nd chapters
you've read. I've learned an awful lot from the opening chapters of books I've
never quite finished! LOL!
OK, here's the other thing my mother taught me. My mom has taught hundreds of
children to read, by the way, so I tend to believe her when she talks about
this kind of thing. She says that for a book to be on a child's reading level,
no page should have more than 5 words he (or she) needs help with. If they
need help with 5 or more words on any given page, they'll feel discouraged and
have a hard time staying motivated to read that book. Now if your son is
giving up after 2 unfamiliar words, maybe he's struggling with perfectionism.
Maybe he's feeling unjustifiably discouraged, for some reason. (Sometimes
"laziness" is a mask for perfectionist tendencies. We perfectionists don't
like to do things -- or finish things -- if we're not 100% sure we can do them
perfectly.)
I've started writing about 6 novel-length books for children. I've yet to
finish a single one. You know why? Because along about Chapter 5, I realize it
has already stopped being a perfect book. (It's always starts out perfect in
my imagination, of course -- before the words actually get written down.) So
at that point, I always go back and start trying to fix it, rewriting and
revising endlessly, wanting to make sure it's perfect before I go forward. And
you know what happens...I never can make it be perfect, so I never get past
Chapter 5! At some point, I get an idea for a new book, and since it still has
a chance of being perfectly *marvelous*, I ditch the old project and
enthusiastically start on the new one.
Also, I get bored easily, too. This might be a serious character flaw, but
maybe it's just an OK and natural part of my temperament. Maybe there are GOOD
things about being this way. Who knows? Some people just have a very low
threshold for boredom -- just like some people have a low pain threshold. (I
know that for me, being bored is like being in pain!)
: So when you see your bad habits reflected in
: your son what do you do?
Ha ha! Well, Hunter's a lot like me in a lot of ways, and not all of them are
wonderful, I have to admit. We're both pretty "lazy," for sure. (The truth is,
we often enjoy being lazy together. LOL!) We are both self-conscious and a bit
self-centered. I think because he is my 3rd child (rather than my 1st), I
don't feel too panicky about it. If there's something bad in myself that I see
reflected in his personality, I now have the experience and the maturity to
try to correct it in myself instead of in him.
I repeat this like a mantra sometimes: "I cannot control anyone's behavior but
my own."
Ariel didn't get off quite so easily. You can ask her! :) I'm telling you,
raising those first children is HARD.
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#156) OH NO!
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Saturday, 15 April 2000, at 10:25 a.m.
Reply To: (#152) Re: How to teach them manners
Author: Susan M
Date: Saturday, 15 April 2000, at 1:55 a.m.
: Don't be so sure! My husband still smacks his
: food, belches at the table, etc., so it is
: hard to teach the boys to eat properly.
: However, when we have my father-in-law over
: for dinner, I can see why my husband eats
: that way. I just hate to see it go on for
: another generation! How can I teach table
: manners if I am the only one who cares?
Oh no! :-( he he he he!
Well.... hmm...
Have you talked with your hubby and discussed how important this is to you?
What does he think?
You are right. It's hard to pass down manners to your children when hubby is
also contributing to the problem.
G.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#157) Re: I think the trouble might be perfectionism!
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Saturday, 15 April 2000, at 10:32 a.m.
Reply To: (#153) I think the trouble might be perfectionism!
Author: Cerelle
Date: Saturday, 15 April 2000, at 4:03 a.m.
: Now if your son is giving up after 2
: unfamiliar words, maybe he's struggling with
: perfectionism. Maybe he's feeling
: unjustifiably discouraged, for some reason.
: (Sometimes "laziness" is a mask
: for perfectionist tendencies. We
: perfectionists don't like to do things -- or
: finish things -- if we're not 100% sure we
: can do them perfectly.)
Yes....sometimes he gets really angry and gives up after two words.
Perfectionist? Yes probably. This sounds like it.
So what now?
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#158) Re: Gardens, weeds, and other springtime musings
AUTHOR: Kim from Sidetr
DATE: Saturday, 15 April 2000, at 10:36 a.m.
Reply To: (#122) Gardens, weeds, and other springtime musings
Author: Cerelle
Date: Thursday, 13 April 2000, at 9:12 a.m.
: Well, Giovanna, it's spring, and I guess I
: can't help seeing everything in terms of
: gardening.
That is positivly biblical ! Is it wheat and tare (sp?) that look the same
until they are mature ? And you can't pull them up until you know which is
which and you let them develop side by side until you know. The Bible was
talking about spiritual growth there, but I think it applies to our kids too
in the same way...
(Hope that wasn't too ... anything for anyone !) You sparked a thought in my
brain Cerelle as you often do !! ;-)
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#159) Re: Experienced HSer, just starting with 7th grade
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Saturday, 15 April 2000, at 5:22 p.m.
Reply To: (#17) Experienced HSer, just starting with 7th grade boy
Author: Nancye in Georg
Date: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 8:40 p.m.
Nancye, I'm so sorry your post down here got forgotten and buried under all
the others! I was hoping maybe there would be a reader who had experienced a
similar situation and would have wise words for you.
It's hard for me to respond to questions like yours because I find it so
difficult to relate to all those issues of grades and homework, etc., etc. I'm
so glad my kids have been able to grow up free from all of that, because to
me, those concerns just take away from the real point of education, which (in
my opinion) is to learn how to learn. Giving kids bad grades for not doing
their homework (or not turning it in) is certainly the school's prerogative,
but it has nothing to do with getting a good, academic education or developing
good learning habits. (Good work habits, maybe, but kids can get those by
getting a real job.)
So you see, I have a hard time discussing these things without sounding
extremely radical. If it were my kid, I'd want to take him out of school and
get him started doing stuff that he feels passionate about -- quick, before he
loses his spark and turns into one of those surly old adolescents that hang
out at the mall on weekends! ;-)
If you want him to stay in school, then he'll probably need to learn to toe
the line, turn in his homework on time, and get with the program -- because
that's the only way to succeed in school. But if you're planning to take him
out of school anyway, why wait? (But Annette could have given you a much more
practical answer, I'm sure! Annette? Where are you?)
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#160) Re: I think the trouble might be perfectionism!
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Saturday, 15 April 2000, at 7:48 p.m.
Reply To: (#157) Re: I think the trouble might be perfectionism!
Author: Giovanna
Date: Saturday, 15 April 2000, at 10:32 a.m.
: So what now?
I don't know! Perfectionism is my Achilles heel -- if I knew how to deal with
it, I'd probably be a much more successful person.
I've heard that it's helpful to model reacting reasonably to our own mistakes
in front of our kids. "Hmmm, I just turned left when I should have turned
right. Oh well, no big deal. We'll just turn around as soon as we have a
chance." Obviously this is preferable to, "EEK! Oh no! I should've turned
RIGHT back there instead of left. Now we're going the wrong way, and who knows
where we'll end up? How could I be such a goof? We'll be late to our
appointment!" (etc., etc.)
Well, I'm sure that's excellent advice, but it sounds like a simplistic
solution to a very complicated problem. What do you think? An awful lot of
psychology experts claim that perfectionism is caused by hypercritical
parents, but I don't think I believe that. Maybe it's true some of the time,
but not always. I think some of us just put a lot of pressure on ourselves. I
guess the best we can do for children like that is to keep reassuring them
that it's OK to make mistakes sometimes, OK to be wrong about things from time
to time, OK to be less than perfect.
We can tell them that if a thing is worth doing, it's worth doing imperfectly
(especially since that's the only way it will ever get done at all!).
But I repeat -- this is still an area in which I need all the good advice I
can get. :)
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#162) Re: I think the trouble might be perfectionism!
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Saturday, 15 April 2000, at 11:15 p.m.
Reply To: (#160) Re: I think the trouble might be perfectionism!
Author: Cerelle
Date: Saturday, 15 April 2000, at 7:48 p.m.
: I've heard that it's helpful to model reacting
: reasonably to our own mistakes in front of
: our kids. "Hmmm, I just turned left
: when I should have turned right. Oh well, no
: big deal. We'll just turn around as soon as
: we have a chance." Obviously this is
: preferable to, "EEK! Oh no! I should've
: turned RIGHT back there instead of left.
This is very helpful!
I'm an "EEK" type of person.
: What do you think? An
: awful lot of psychology experts claim that
: perfectionism is caused by hypercritical
: parents, but I don't think I believe that.
I do! I had major hypercritical parents! MAJOR! And yes.
I am a perfectionist. Am I passing down a negative
thing to my son without really realizing it? Probably.
Giovanna
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#163) Re: Experienced HSer, just starting with 7th grade
AUTHOR: Annette
DATE: Sunday, 16 April 2000, at 1:15 a.m.
Reply To: (#17) Experienced HSer, just starting with 7th grade boy
Author: Nancye in Georg
Date: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 8:40 p.m.
Hi Nancy, I also would like to apologize for not answering sooner. Your post
got lost down here at the bottom of the board. I am finishing up my 8th year
home schooling but my children have tried school out periodically too so I
have enjoyed the best of both worlds and endured the worst too. It sounds like
your son doesn't fit the *system.* Which is fine. My dd got a zero in reading
in the third grade (ps) because she kept forgetting to jot down in her reading
log that she had actually read 20 minutes or more each night. It was
ridiculous because she brought in books she had read, could give detailed,
oral, explanations of the story....but none of that mattered because she
didn't fill in the log. I told her, "Fine we will take the zero because we
know the truth...you *can* read, you *do* read, and you *enjoy* it." Have you
taken him out of school yet or are you having him finish out the year? If he
is still in school just help him cope until the end of the year. Let him know
that you see that he is working out side of the perameters of the system and
that you understand that their criteria doesn't work for him, etc. If he is
home....follow his lead. Let him study what he is interested in. Let him know
that you have *confidence* in his sense of what will work for him and what
won't. Take it very slowly....especially since there is so little time of the
official school year left. Read to him aloud, go interesting places, do some
neat projects that he can help with the planning on. Gardens, composting,
rocket science, etc.) Most of all he needs to learn to trust his own instincts
again. Provide opportunities for him to shine. IMO sometimes in traditional
school situations, teachers can focus so much on the process that they lose
sight of the desired outcome....a child that loves to learn and seeks it out
on his own. I really think that once he is home a lot will fall back into its
natural place for him. We are experiencing something similar with my youngest
dd right now. She was just in a small private christian school too and we
brought her home with only 10 weeks left in the school year. Its a long story
but I am willing to share it if you want more info. Anyway, blessings in your
journey with your son. I hope this helped.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#164) Re: OH NO!
AUTHOR: Susan M
DATE: Sunday, 16 April 2000, at 2:29 a.m.
Reply To: (#156) OH NO!
Author: Giovanna
Date: Saturday, 15 April 2000, at 10:25 a.m.
: Have you talked with your hubby and discussed
: how important this is to you? What does he
: think?
He says he is trying to do better. I think it is just what he is used to. He
works a blue collar job, and the manners of the guys he works with are pretty
atrocious, from the stories he tells.
Dh is a great guy and a loving father, just not the world's greatest example
in the manner department... ...it is probably just something I will have to
accept and concentrate more on his good points... :-) After all, being a
loving father counts for more than eating with one's mouth closed, right?!
Susan M
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#165) A page of helpful links (about perfectionism)
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Sunday, 16 April 2000, at 3:03 a.m.
Reply To: (#162) Re: I think the trouble might be perfectionism!
Author: Giovanna
Date: Saturday, 15 April 2000, at 11:15 p.m.
The Hoagies Gifted Education site has a page of links to interesting websites
and articles about perfectionism:
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/perfection.htm
Some of them argue in favor of the positive aspects of perfectionism. Most are
cautionary tales about the evils of perfectionism. And a few actually offer
some advice about how to combat it -- either in your own life or in your
children's.
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#166) Patience for the sound effects
AUTHOR: dawne
DATE: Sunday, 16 April 2000, at 10:11 a.m.
Reply To: (#107) I have 3 boys, and finally a girl!
Author: notvmom
Date: Tuesday, 11 April 2000, at 2:47 a.m.
I wish a scientist would bottle a concoction to give patience for all those
sound effects. My boy is almost 8 and is constantly running around the house
making sound effects. When he is sitting and building legos there are sound
effects. Always these sound effects. We have a rule, No S.E. at the table :-)
I try to give him a good 20 min or so before I ask him to tone it down. Our
apt. is laid out so that you can hear anything from another room unless you
close the door. After another 20 min. of "toned down" S.E. I declare an hour
free of S.E. It really gets to me. Just like rap music, that same sound over
and over in under a few min. Drives me nuts. THEN.... in the park I say run
around and get out all the S.E. [which often get to his 3 yo sister too] and
he doesn't :-)
HOw do you cope? dawne
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#167) Re: HA! "Bombastic pontificating" -- is this a BOY
AUTHOR: dmx
DATE: Sunday, 16 April 2000, at 7:19 p.m.
Reply To: (#149) HA! "Bombastic pontificating" -- is this a BOY thi
Author: Cerelle
Date: Friday, 14 April 2000, at 11:30 p.m.
: I've seen lots of kids go through a
: let-me-explain-to-you-how-the-world-operates
: phase at around this age. Even my daughters
: did, although it looked and sounded a little
: bit different on them. (They didn't have
: that big deep voice thing going for them, I
: guess.)
Maybe you've hit the nail on the head - that booming voice. My 14 yo seems to
burst into conversation; there's no real 'normal' speaking voice - from
silence to sonic boom declarations! LOL. My Mom gets a kick out of it all too.
'Ah, teenagers' she comments knowingly, possibly letting a bit of "it's
pay-back time" glee slip into her voice. :)
She remembers the 'attitude' with all of us boy and girl children, but I think
she'd agree with you that 'it just doesn't sound the same' from girls.
***************************************************************************
End of part 2
Back to the Top
Back to the Digest Index