Digests from the KALEIDOSCAPES MONTHLY TOPIC
(HOMESCHOOLING) DISCUSSION BOARD
These are the original digests from Kaleidoscapes' MONTHLY TOPIC discussion boards.
They were hosted by two amazing gals: Giovanna Gomez and Cerelle Woods Simmons.
The boards are no longer available (thus, links to them won't work); you can, however, still
find many of the same wonderful folks who posted on the boards at Network 54.
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Back to the Digest Index
HOMESCHOOLING BOYS: THE JOYS AND
CHALLENGES (Part 1)
#4: WELCOME! (Giovanna)
#5: Home schooling my son.... (Annette)
#6: Boys (Jamie)
#7: Re: Boys (dawne)
#9: Re: Boys (Tiffany)
#10: resistant sons (sorry, LONG) (Laura in SC)
#11: I was suprised.. (Jamie)
#12: Re: resistant sons (sorry, LONG) (Shannon in Fla)
#13: Re: resistant sons (sorry, LONG) (Robin S)
#14: Power, control, and other stuff (Cerelle)
#15: My first grade son... (Christy)
#16: Re: My first grade son... (Cerelle)
#17: Experienced HSer, just starting with 7th grade boy (Nancye in Georg)
#18: Cerelle said it all so well but I just want to add (Annette)
#19: Re: Power, control, and other stuff (Jennifer in San)
#21: Oh my, yes! This mommy stuff IS hard! :) (Cerelle)
#22: Re: My first grade son... (Kim)
#23: Re: resistant sons (sorry, LONG) (Sue in NY)
#24: Re: My first grade son (Giovanna)
#25: Massive variations in brother's personalities (Susan)
#26: Thanks, ladies.....keep 'em coming (Laura in SC)
#28: My 6 yos whines constantly!! (Beth)
#30: Struggling to find our Style (KC)
#31: Re: I love this question!! (KC)
#32: Re: Just an extra side point! (KC)
#33: Re: Massive variations in brother's personalities (Cerelle)
#34: Re: My 6 yos whines constantly!! (Cerelle)
#35: Thanks for making me laugh!! You're right he does (Beth)
#38: Re: Just an extra side point! (Inge)
#40: Re: Struggling to find our Style (michelle)
#41: Re: My first grade son... (michelle)
#42: Question (dawne)
#43: Re: Thanks for making me laugh!! You're right he d (Katie in VA)
#44: resistant sons...cont (Shannon in Fla)
#45: Re: Struggling to find our Style (pat in oh)
#46: Mine is 9 and still whinning (pat in oh)
#47: Re: Thanks for making me laugh!! You're right he d (Annette)
#48: Did somebody say "Reluctant"? (long) (Susan)
#49: All Play and No Work (MRs. K (& Speci)
#50: BOYS, BOYS, BOYS! (Giovanna)
#51: Re: BOYS, BOYS, BOYS! (Cerelle)
#52: hungry all the time.... (Gail)
#53: Re: BOYS, BOYS, BOYS! (Gail)
#54: I love my boys!!! (Theresa in Hawa)
#55: Re: BOYS, BOYS, BOYS! (VickiC)
#56: mmmm more info please? (Kristen AKA cur)
#57: Mama's boys (Stephanie)
#58: Re: BOYS, BOYS, BOYS! (michelle)
#59: When theydo 'boy things' (Jamie(nodding h)
#60: Re: When they do 'boy things' (Giovanna)
#61: Same basic story... (Kristen AKA cur)
#62: What privileges does he have? (Cafi in Califor)
#63: Re: mmmm more info please? (Annette)
#64: Re: What privileges does he have? (Susan)
#65: My .02 (very long) (Barbara)
#66: My boys (Sissy M.)
#67: Re: Struggling to find our Style (Katie)
#68: what is your "balance?" (Maureen)
#69: Jump start on channeling all that energy! (CC)
#70: Re: Mama's boys (Maureen)
#71: Re: Thanks for making me laugh!! You're right he d (Maureen)
#75: Re: Mama's boys (Stephanie)
#76: Re: Thanks for making me laugh!! You're right he d (Kim)
#77: My little 7 yo boy just woke up... (Kim)
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MESSAGE: (#4) WELCOME!
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Saturday, 1 April 2000, at 8:58 p.m.
We get to talk about our boys! YIPPEE! Ready to start?
Giovanna
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MESSAGE: (#5) Home schooling my son....
AUTHOR: Annette
DATE: Saturday, 1 April 2000, at 9:05 p.m.
I guess I will get things going here. I loved home schooling my son. He was my
first experience with home schooling, being my firstborn. He was so patient
with me as I tried various methods and means and found my way. He was my
teacher so that I could home school my girls in relative peace and confidence.
The joys were seeing his little heart stay so untarnished, so sweet and
innocent. Watching him burst with excitement at his victories and
observations. The challenges were keeping his quick little brain challenged.
His interests were so varied from mine....very analytical and mechanical vs.
mine which are more creative and artsy. He was home for 7 years and just this
past school year went to public school for the 8th grade where he is presently
shining brightly. His confidence level is awesome and I credit that to home
schooling as he never had to deal with peer teasing or ridicule. He was
surounded by people who thought he could do anything and considered mistakes
an opportunity to learn more. Thus he is not ruled by fear of failure but by
love of a challenge. I have had some who have thought that because he chose ps
this past year that home schooling didn't work for us. I say, quite the
contrary. It accomplished just what I wanted....a young man who knows the
direction he wishes to pursue and then goes after it with a whole heart. A
young man who knows himself and is strong. Thanks for tolerating my gushing.
:o)
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MESSAGE: (#6) Boys
AUTHOR: Jamie
DATE: Saturday, 1 April 2000, at 9:43 p.m.
I have 3 of them 10,8 &8. I like to call them my boybarians. There is never a
lack of excitement. We are hsing my oldest now and next year will do one,
maybe both of the twins. I love being a mom of boys. Lots of women enjoy their
daughters(and if I had one I would to),but somebody has to raise Godly and
responsible men for them to marry. Here lies my mission.
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MESSAGE: (#7) Re: Boys
AUTHOR: dawne
DATE: Saturday, 1 April 2000, at 10:28 p.m.
Reply To: (#6) Boys
Author: Jamie
Date: Saturday, 1 April 2000, at 9:43 p.m.
but somebody has to raise Godly and responsible men for them to marry. Here
lies my mission.
I always thought that there is something CRUCIAL in the interaction btwn the
child and the opposite gender parent. In this way I swear boys are easier .
Seriously though I take my role as "representative of the female gender" very
seriously. If he can look up to me and feel my love and respect for him I'm
hopeful he'll choose a life partner well.
I'm happy to be homeschooling him b/c even in his first grade exp. there was a
lot of "harmless" kissing and hand holding. But he never wanted it. When he
came to me for advice I told him to tell the girls "My mom says I'm not
allowed to kiss". That did work, thank goodness. Dawne
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MESSAGE: (#9) Re: Boys
AUTHOR: Tiffany
DATE: Saturday, 1 April 2000, at 11:45 p.m.
Reply To: (#6) Boys
Author: Jamie
Date: Saturday, 1 April 2000, at 9:43 p.m.
Sounds like my house (I loved the "boybarians" comment). I have 4 - 9, 7 and
2yo twins - all at home every day. While their activity level can absolutely
wear me out - can't imaging sending them away. The care and tenderness the
older two show the twins is far greater than it would be if they were away all
day. I, too feel it is my mission to raise godly husbands and daddies. Even
though my oldest is only 9, just started reading "I Kissed Dating Goodbye", so
that I can be prepared to train them to honor women and save themselves to
cherish their wives. Boys are a BLESSING!!
Tiffany
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MESSAGE: (#10) resistant sons (sorry, LONG)
AUTHOR: Laura in SC
DATE: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 10:05 a.m.
I have lost that love of hsing. Oh, I still love the idea of it, and we do
have glimpses of the joy that it could be, but most days are a struggle.
I have three sons, 10, 6 and 4. They have never been "to school".
My 10yo is my main challenge. He wants to be in charge. He wants to do what he
wants to, not what I say. I know this is a discipline and character issue. I
have seriously been tempted to send him to ps just to get him out of the house
several hours a day, but I know that is not truly a solution.
He is EXTREMELY gifted artistically, and is very bright as well. He really
doesn't like to write (although he will draw all day), and we have done most
things orally to this point. He was fine until we got to long division --- he
hasn't figured that one out "in his head". Math is the only subject in which
we use a traditional textbook curriculum. We supplement that with lots of
games and manipulatives.
He loves being read to, but won't read on his own without tears (mine and
his!) He just had his eyes checked --- they're fine.
My 6yo has really taken off with reading this year and is eager to learn. He
would be happy doing worksheets for most subjects. He is very sensitive and
needs time with mom without big brother's antics distracting us.
My 4yo is ready to start school this summer. He'll be 5 in July.
Unfortunately, we just found out that he is having some serious vision and
hearing problems. I don't know if I can adequately help him while battling his
brother.
We are taking this next week off of school for Spring Cleaning Break. I am
looking forward to reading what's worked with other resistant sons --- I know
there have to be some out there.
TIA, Laura
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MESSAGE: (#11) I was suprised..
AUTHOR: Jamie
DATE: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 11:22 a.m.
Reply To: (#7) Re: Boys
Author: dawne
Date: Saturday, 1 April 2000, at 10:28 p.m.
My twins now go to first grade in a Christian school and they have both been
kissed and called on the phone by girls! They know they are not allowed to
kiss girls besides mom grand ma and aunts. They are not the ones doing the
kissing but being smooched on by these girls. It has stopped for now, thank
goodness. My oldest who only went to school for K 2nd and 1/2 of 3rd will tell
anybody that he is too young for girls. You know all those well meaning
relatives that ask him "How many girlfriends ya got?"
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MESSAGE: (#12) Re: resistant sons (sorry, LONG)
AUTHOR: Shannon in Fla
DATE: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 1:51 p.m.
Reply To: (#10) resistant sons (sorry, LONG)
Author: Laura in SC
Date: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 10:05 a.m.
I would think that I wrote at least half this letter..really !!! I have a 91/2
yr old boy who has beed to school, but has been homeschooled a year. He is
stubborn and gifted and would just as soon set his hair on fire as write
anything..agh!!! He will write math though thank goodness! We also only use a
text for math.He loves to draw and reads several hours a day But we struggle
to get him to work on writing unless we let him type. I guess I don't have any
advice but just wanted to let you know I'm right here with you. Maybe we
should introduce them as pen pals and make them use snail mail..no
typing...lol good luck,,,,,,,, Shannon
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MESSAGE: (#13) Re: resistant sons (sorry, LONG)
AUTHOR: Robin S
DATE: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 2:26 p.m.
Reply To: (#10) resistant sons (sorry, LONG)
Author: Laura in SC
Date: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 10:05 a.m.
Well, gosh ladies I don't relate to ya'll at all. My son is SO easy to
homeschool. He just jumps to do anything I even look like I might want to
suggest that he do. He finishes all of his math in about 10 minutes and cries
for more. He writes the most wonderful essays, at least 3 full pages per day.
I can't seem to keep him busy, always begging for more "school".
Shannon knows my son and can attest to the fact that the above description is
in my dreams.
Laura, you sound like most mothers of sons that I know. None of them will
write without an argument, and forget math. Funny, my son is the same way
about trying to do it all in his head. That is all well and good, and great
skill to have, but I'm trying to make him understand that if I can't see his
work, I can't see where he is making his mistakes. His reading has improved
greatly with Star Wars coming out. He reads each one as soon as he can get
hold of them, but at 10 getting him to read anything was a struggle (he is 13
now) Do you just let him read what he wants, or are you using a reading
curriculum? I have found that text books don't work for us. The only thing
text book like in our house is Keys Curriculum Math.
So, I hear you and if anyone has anything that works to motivate....PLEEZE
share it with all of us!!
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MESSAGE: (#14) Power, control, and other stuff
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 5:51 p.m.
Reply To: (#10) resistant sons (sorry, LONG)
Author: Laura in SC
Date: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 10:05 a.m.
Dear Laura,
I don't know what it is about the oldest kid (boy OR girl), but we learn all
the hard lessons at their expense, don't we? At least, that was true in my
case.
I have two words of advice: Back off.
I know that's probably the last thing you want to do right now. The whole
thing has turned into a power struggle ("He wants to be in charge. He wants to
do what he wants to, not what I say."), and you probably feel that if you back
off, he will "win".
Well, if my experience is any guide, a struggle for power with a child who is
wanting to exercise some independence is a huge waste of time and energy, and
will only guarantee daily fights and tears.
What I learned to do was to take a big deep breath, a little step backward,
and a giant leap of faith. (It really does take all three!)
When we try to push kids to learn, they resist. This is the NATURAL response.
The harder we push, the more they resist. Pretty soon, learning has flown out
the window...we're locked in a game of push/resist, and we've forgotten all
about our REAL purpose, here (to grow eager learners).
Homeschooling isn't about penmanship or written math or any of that. It's
about good relationships and the joy of learning. If what we're doing now
isn't giving rise to either of those, then we're doing something wrong and
need to change our methods.
My 14yo son is also my youngest. At 10, I know he would have responded to my
pushing exactly like your son -- resist, resist, resist. So I didn't push! I
just let him be who he was. As a result, we never had fights (well, maybe the
occasional squabble over putting up dishes, or something, but I could usually
get around that by reading aloud to him while he did it!!!). Today, at 14, he
is an eager reader, a very helpful member of the household, excited about his
interests, and kind to everyone. We have no smoldering resentments to deal
with, no backlog of power struggles to resolve. He and I are just two people
who genuinely enjoy each other's company. He has his interests (Star Wars,
computer graphics, drawing, woodworking, acting, chess, etc.) and I have mine,
-- and then we have a few in common (creative writing, biology, and physics).
Neither one of us is trying to foist his or her interests off on the other,
but we can take pleasure in each other's achievements. I believe this is as it
should be.
Ten is really very young. So much will change between now and adolescence.
Better to build that relationship now (and establish trust) than to erode it
with a lot of pushing about things that won't ultimately matter in another
couple of years. I can't speak for everyone, but this is the way I look at it:
I don't want a teenager who will obey my every command. I want a teenager who
will make good, safe, wise decisions...of his own free will. It's not about my
being in control of him. It's about his being in control of himself.
Cerelle
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MESSAGE: (#15) My first grade son...
AUTHOR: Christy
DATE: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 5:52 p.m.
Hi everyone!
I'm new here, and I am mainly posting to see if I am the only one struggling
with a first grader.
My son is very intellegent. He will be ending his first grade year next month,
and I've had to push him all the way. Its not that he doesn't get it. He has
excelled at everything I sent his way. But its been an uphill battle that
hasn't made my or his hs experience very enjoyable. He was in school the first
quarter and his teacher loved him. She said he was one of the brightest in her
class and that he was very well mannered and behaved. However, she would be
surprised to see him at home. He argues with everything I say! Is this a
normal first grade problem (with boys)? I hope so. I feel really bad about it!
I'd appreciate any feedback, advice, or just similiar stories.
Thanks!
Christy
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MESSAGE: (#16) Re: My first grade son...
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 6:01 p.m.
Reply To: (#15) My first grade son...
Author: Christy
Date: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 5:52 p.m.
Welcome, Christy!
Could you tell us a little more about the approach you're currently using with
your son? What is a "typical day" at your house. (I realize there's probably
no such thing as a typical day, but I'm just trying to get an idea of the
kinds of things you're doing together.)
Exceptionally bright children are often EXTREMELY bored by traditional
"schoolish" activities and yearn for a more creative experience. My advice
would be to let your son suggest what to do next. Look for the academic
benefits to all the things he naturally does (I'm sure they're there, if you
just look for them).
But tell me what you're already doing, before I make assumptions! ;-) And
don't worry -- some of us have really been around the block (this is my 14th
year of homeschooling) and we can get you through this!
Cerelle
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MESSAGE: (#17) Experienced HSer, just starting with 7th grade boy
AUTHOR: Nancye in Georg
DATE: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 8:40 p.m.
Reply To: (#4) WELCOME!
Author: Giovanna
Date: Saturday, 1 April 2000, at 8:58 p.m.
Okay--I hs'ed my older children, so know quite a bit about hs'ing. Tell me-- I
have a 6th grader doing not well in private christian school. He's a straight
A student, now making d's and F's because he forgets to turn in homework. The
teachers treat hw as important as tests, projects, etc. He makes A's on tests,
etc. He has started feeling dumb, but is really just exhibiting adolescence
(forgetfulness, etc.) How should I go about building his confidence? We are
definitely hs'ing him next year, and possibly pulling him out immediately.
Thanks for any help!
Nancye (in the Atlanta area)
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MESSAGE: (#18) Cerelle said it all so well but I just want to add
AUTHOR: Annette
DATE: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 9:08 p.m.
Reply To: (#10) resistant sons (sorry, LONG)
Author: Laura in SC
Date: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 10:05 a.m.
Laura, I agree with Cerelle's post sooooo much. "Back off" is exactly what I
think you should do too. Even though I wrote that glowing report of where my
son is now....we had our times of tension too. We learned so much about each
other through those times though. I did back off and he did lead the way as
far as what he was interested in and we explored avenues *together.* It ended
up being an awesome life experience. We grew so close and I really believe it
was because he was respected and listened to. His ideas were valued and
yes...sometimes they didn't line up with what I felt was important or right at
the time. It was really a huge work in my life to realize that my kids are not
extensions of me but autonomous beings of their own. God created them with a
mind, special gifts, ideas, seperate from mine. As Ian tried things out, he
knew what worked or didn't. There were times that I nudged him in a direction
out of a minute of panic and he would ever so sweetly try it to make me feel
better. I guess I would just encourage you to look at educating your son as a
joint project. It is a partnership. Some kids need to feel some
control/responsibility over their situation. My son was one of them...and when
that need is met things go much more smoothly. "Seeking responsibility" is a
much more positive term than "wanting his own way." Just a little tilt in our
perspective can change a whole relationship for the better.
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MESSAGE: (#19) Re: Power, control, and other stuff
AUTHOR: Jennifer in San
DATE: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 9:31 p.m.
Reply To: (#14) Power, control, and other stuff
Author: Cerelle
Date: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 5:51 p.m.
Cerelle,
I need to tattoo your words of wisdom on my brain.
My oldest son is 8 and those power struggles keep happening even when
intellectually I know to back off. I find myself taking it all so personally.
Maybe I'm just a slow learner! But this mommy stuff is so hard!
Jennifer
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MESSAGE: (#21) Oh my, yes! This mommy stuff IS hard! :)
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 10:09 p.m.
Reply To: (#19) Re: Power, control, and other stuff
Author: Jennifer in San
Date: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 9:31 p.m.
: I find myself taking it all so personally.
Wow, Jennifer. You said a mouthful! I think learning not to "take it
personally" is the hardest lesson of all. I wish I could say that I have
always been even-tempered, calm, and rational, but not only is this "mommy
stuff" hard...it takes some of us years to get it down!
My oldest child (a daughter, aged 21) is wonderful, and we get along famously
-- I don't want anyone thinking I *completely* goofed up the first time
around. LOL! But she and I did the "power struggle dance" when she was young,
even though I knew better (intellectually). So I know EXACTLY what you're
talking about. Taking things personally was a big part of my problem. I would
plan all these marvelous things for us to do, and then she wouldn't want to do
them! The nerve! :) I interpreted her reluctance and resistance as some kind
of personal assault on my abilities as a mom and teacher. How foolish of me!
(Really, how INSECURE of me.)
Older and wiser now, though. And lucky me, I managed to redeem myself before
she grew up. :)
Cerelle
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MESSAGE: (#22) Re: My first grade son...
AUTHOR: Kim
DATE: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 10:43 p.m.
Reply To: (#16) Re: My first grade son...
Author: Cerelle
Date: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 6:01 p.m.
: Welcome, Christy!
: Could you tell us a little more about the
: approach you're currently using with your
: son? What is a "typical day" at
: your house. (I realize there's probably no
: such thing as a typical day, but I'm just
: trying to get an idea of the kinds of things
: you're doing together.)
: Exceptionally bright children are often
: EXTREMELY bored by traditional
: "schoolish" activities and yearn
: for a more creative experience. My advice
: would be to let your son suggest what to do
: next. Look for the academic benefits to all
: the things he naturally does (I'm sure
: they're there, if you just look for them).
: But tell me what you're already doing, before I
: make assumptions! ;-) And don't worry --
: some of us have really been around the block
: (this is my 14th year of homeschooling) and
: we can get you through this!
: Cerelle Hi, everyone. I am new to all of this, too, and can definitely
relate to RESISTANT SONS! I have an eight and a half year old and we have only
been unschooling since February. I have to be so creative and almost sneaky to
get him to "do" what I think he might should be doing. He is quite bright, but
was bored to death at ps and can become that way very easily at home. He is
extremely argumentative as well! I want so badly to provide him with whatever
he needs!
Thanks for listening..Kim
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MESSAGE: (#23) Re: resistant sons (sorry, LONG)
AUTHOR: Sue in NY
DATE: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 11:14 p.m.
Reply To: (#10) resistant sons (sorry, LONG)
Author: Laura in SC
Date: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 10:05 a.m.
I can relate to resistant children. I have one daughter age 14, and three sons
ages 13, 7, and 3. My oldest son used to be very resistant and want to be in
control. However, I found that he was also willing to compromise. I feel that
Math and Language Arts are the two subjects that need consistency, so those
are our "structured" subjects with text and/or workbooks. Science, History,
Art, etc. I would allow him to choose topics of interest and let him lead the
way in those subjects. This worked very well for both of us. Now that he is 13
and in the "middle school" years, he is not quite as resistant, and is more
willing to follow my advice as to what he needs to do. He seems to understand
that some things need to be covered, even though they may not be of interest
to him. Maybe this comes with his thinking ahead to college (his new ambition
is to attend the local community college at age 16 and have a degree by 18-
whew!)and wanting to achieve specific goals. If you really want to talk about
power struggles, I could discuss my daughter - but since the topic is boys,
I'll save that! And, my three year old son worries me - he is already showing
much too much resistance to everything! Hang in there and good luck! Sue
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MESSAGE: (#24) Re: My first grade son
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 12:35 a.m.
Reply To: (#15) My first grade son...
Author: Christy
Date: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 5:52 p.m.
I know how you feel! :-)
Do you know what happened? Your little boy has now started to reason and what
safer person to test his newly acquired skill with than with MOM?!
Hang on to your hat! Pretty soon he is going to start blaming YOU for
EVERYTHING...even spilled milk (he'll say you filled up the glass too high).
You know what I've done? I've tried to handle this with as much humor and
lightheartedness as possible and IT'S WORKING! Try it and see how it will
immediately lessen the tension.
You know what the problem is? Us moms take things too personal sometimes.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating that we all turn into our sons'
punching bags. Do not allow him to disrespect you. By the same token though,
treat HIM with the same respect you'd like to be treated with.
Right around first grade, my son started to show me that he was no longer a
"baby." He wanted to make some decisions on his own. Arguments began and we
started to go head to head on some issues which now, looking back, meant
nothing and had no real importance. Hubby began to spend some "special" alone
time with him (doing cool "boy stuff") and it has done wonders for their
relationship and our son's attitude. Instead of insisting he was still my
"baby" (he was my first born after all, can you blame me?) I started to give
him some responsibility and allow him to make some choices.
Mother and Son....interesting relationship, isn't it?
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MESSAGE: (#25) Massive variations in brother's personalities
AUTHOR: Susan
DATE: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 2:54 a.m.
Hi! I'm mom to three boys: 5, 3 and 3 mo, and so excited to start formally
homeschooling this fall! My oldest is very inquisitive, has a great vocabulary
(just yesterday he was telling me about how arachnids are carnivores) and is
beginning to read. My second is artistic, kind hearted, content to play alone,
and doesn't talk much yet. Well, the oldest has a tendancy to overpower the
younger for attention. So, when homeschooling, how do you keep the balance
when the boys are so different? How do you give them both the attention they
need and teach to their different abilities? How do you do let them grow
confidently and not compare? Thanks for listening to my long winded post!
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MESSAGE: (#26) Thanks, ladies.....keep 'em coming
AUTHOR: Laura in SC
DATE: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 8:32 a.m.
Reply To: (#10) resistant sons (sorry, LONG)
Author: Laura in SC
Date: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 10:05 a.m.
All perspectives welcome. My husband and I are doing a lot of talking and
re-evaluating this week.
I know that I need to be reminded from time to time that God did not make all
kids alike. What works well for one may be a disaster for another. Part of our
re-evaluating this week (while we CLEAN HOUSE!!) will be looking at each boy's
strengths and gifts, and working with those, rather than working so hard
against his weaknesses.
Just thinking aloud ..... y'all may be tired of hearing me think by the end of
this month.
Laura
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MESSAGE: (#28) My 6 yos whines constantly!!
AUTHOR: Beth
DATE: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 9:57 a.m.
He is driving us crazy with his negative - glass is half empty - attitude.
This is not new. He has always been rather whining and complaining but I guess
I just thought that he would out grow it. Instead, it seems that he just
whines more and more. He whines about eating, getting dressed, chores (says -I
have to do everything!), his brothers, other kids, ... It seems as if he is
never happy. Recently after a really fun weekend that we knew he had enjoyed
we were driving home in the car and I said *Wow, what a fun weekend, huh?* And
he said *Not really. (Big sigh. Drooped shoulders) I never got to rest.* Now
we know he had a great time and he never rests at home so that wasn't the
issue. He just had to say something negative. I don't think I can take this
whining much longer. What can we do? Thanks in advance Beth
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#30) Struggling to find our Style
AUTHOR: KC
DATE: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 10:06 a.m.
Okay I love this topic...right up my alley. I have two sons aged 6 (almost 7)
and 4. It is the 6 year old that I struggle with and I can RELATE to all the
posts so far! At first he was eager if not anxious to start "school" and this
year has learned to read, do basic math (even started doing adding problems in
the larger numbers like 23 + 13) and is avidly loving gardening that we
started....BUT and there is a large one...he resists almost ALL things I
plan...I may plan a wonderful (at least in my opinion) unit study and he looks
at me and crumbles. He has NO desire at times to do anything I plan or ask of
him academically. Then the struggle begins! I ask him what does he want to do
and his response is ALWAYS...Play, play play. Now I know he is VERY young and
has learned alot this year but for some unknown reason I feel the NEED to
continue pushing him to "do school" everyday! I almost think at times that
unschooling is what he wants..to be left alone to play and explore and yet
then after about 1-2 hours of that he is into the I'm Bored thing and then I
feel like we need more structure!! UGH I am sooo confused...so all you
seasoned moms with sons and great words of wisdom are welcome to set me
straight. Oh and by the way in our state he DOESN'T even officially have to
begin schooling til the age of 7...so I ask myself WHAT am I doing worrying
about this? HAHA.Thanks for your help..what do you think..unschooling,
structured..or maybe both..unit studies..Oh my I get soooo confused!!!
Blessings, KC
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MESSAGE: (#31) Re: I love this question!!
AUTHOR: KC
DATE: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 10:10 a.m.
Reply To: (#25) Massive variations in brother's personalities
Author: Susan
Date: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 2:54 a.m.
Boy thanks for asking this...I to am wondering. I have a 6 and 4 year old and
they differ GREATLY in their learning style and their personalities. The older
loves to do it on his own and his own way and the 4 year old wants mommy to
help and has NO desire to learn anything..I mean not even colors or letters
yet. Keeping them both happy while doing an activity is terribly hard!!
So thanks for asking this and I to will be eager to see the answers!
Blessings, KC
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MESSAGE: (#32) Re: Just an extra side point!
AUTHOR: KC
DATE: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 10:14 a.m.
Reply To: (#30) Struggling to find our Style
Author: KC
Date: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 10:06 a.m.
Just wanted to add...in our haste to do homeschooling right we purchased Konos
and that fell through.(6 year old DIDN'T want to do unit studies!!) We
purchased FIAR books and manual (6 year old DIDN'T want to read or like most
of the books!) and numerous other "sure fire" ways to teach and almost ALL of
them fell through. The only thing he REALLY loves is educational Computer
games...is working on Math Treasure Storm now and learning sooo much..so is
that the way to go??? Sorry I will ramble on no more!!
Blessings, KC (going to turn on Math Treasure Storm AGAIN as soon is eager to
play it this morning!)
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#33) Re: Massive variations in brother's personalities
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 10:26 a.m.
Reply To: (#25) Massive variations in brother's personalities
Author: Susan
Date: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 2:54 a.m.
Hi, Susan--
Those are excellent questions. I have two different answers (split personality
this morning, maybe?).
My first response is this: Homeschooling (formal or not) is just parenting on
steroids, if you know what I mean. I always used to say that homeschooling was
like mothering -- only to the nth power -- and I still feel this to be true.
So whatever successful ways you've found of dealing with and respecting your
sons' differences now should keep working once you've begun their formal
education.
On the other hand (here comes my 2nd reaction), I know how easy it is to begin
taking the oldest child more seriously, somehow, than the younger ones. I've
been guilty of this many times (sorry to say). Giving each of the kids the
attention they deserve and teaching to their various abilities -- yup, that's
the goal, all right. You said it very well. Perhaps just having that goal in
mind at all times is a good place to start.
This is one area in which my husband has been *really* helpful all these
years. First of all, he would always let me know when I seemed to be favoring
one child's interests over another's. (Easy to do when one kid shares a lot of
your own interests, and another kid's interests seem to come from MARS!)
Second of all, he would come to my rescue by filling in my blanks. He'd take
the poor neglected little child du jour under his wing, and they'd spend some
special one-on-one time together.
This is just an extra thought, and not really something you asked about, but
I'm throwing it in gratuitously. Since your oldest is already thriving
academically (sophisticated vocab., reading well, etc., etc.) in this informal
environment you've created for him so far, you might want to give some thought
to keeping it informal a while longer. Homeschooling is really, really
DIFFERENT from regular classroom stuff -- we can afford to do without a lot of
the formality and still get excellent results. (Better results, really.) Just
something to chew on...
Cerelle
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MESSAGE: (#34) Re: My 6 yos whines constantly!!
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 11:08 a.m.
Reply To: (#28) My 6 yos whines constantly!!
Author: Beth
Date: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 9:57 a.m.
: And he said *Not really. (Big
: sigh. Drooped shoulders) I never got to
: rest.*
Oh, Beth! LOL! Your son sounds just like Eeyore!!!
I'm reminded of the time I took my then-3-year-old child to the zoo -- at
great personal sacrifice, because I was hugely pregnant with child #2 and it
was a hot summer day in Texas. I bore up really well for her sake, though, and
we walked all over the zoo and oohed and ahhhed over every single animal. And
as we were leaving, I said, "Well, didn't we have a great time?"
She said, "No, I hated it. It was hot and smelly and now my legs hurt."
ROTFL! It's funny to me NOW...but at the time, it was one of those incidents I
TOOK PERSONALLY! :)
You are right, though. Negative thinking is a very serious problem, and I
don't blame you one bit for being concerned about it. I've known some real
"Eeyores" in my time, and a person like that can really bring down the mood of
a room in a hurry.
Could your son be depressed? I know we don't usually think of depression as
something that strikes little children, but it could very well be part of the
problem.
Could negativity be a coping strategy he's learned to use to make sure he
receives his fair share (or perhaps more than his fair share) of attention?
You mentioned that he has brothers -- how many? I generally think of whining
as a "squeaky wheel syndrome." Sometimes it seems to be the only way for a kid
to get any "grease."
One last suggestion. Whenever one of my kids was really driving me up the
wall, I took it as a sign that that child needed to be REALLY LISTENED TO. I
would schedule a big block of time for just that one kid, and we would sit
down together in some very comfortable place (usually that child's room), and
then I would shut up and listen. (Shutting up is the most important element,
here!) My kids would divulge the most amazing revelations to me, given enough
time and silence on my part. (Oh, I'd make the occasional mumble, just to
prove I was paying attention, but you know what I mean.)
My youngest once told me -- and he was going through a pretty bad whiny phase
at the time -- that he felt like an old, rotten, squished tomato at the bottom
of a compost pile! (That was how I found out he had a real gift for metaphor,
LOL!)
I do know one thing. Arguing with a child about whether or not he should feel
cheerful and happy is an exercise in futility. I do think it's OK to shape
behavior, though. ("I really don't like listening to all this whining and
complaining. If you want me to be with you right now, you'll have to save the
complaints for another time.")
There's a good book called Learned Optimism, by Martin E. P. Seligman. His
stated purpose in life, by the way, is to do for depression what Salk did for
polio. I thought it was a very interesting book with many valid points.
Cerelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#35) Thanks for making me laugh!! You're right he does
AUTHOR: Beth
DATE: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 11:35 a.m.
Reply To: (#34) Re: My 6 yos whines constantly!!
Author: Cerelle
Date: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 11:08 a.m.
Your zoo story sounds exactly like my son. It is so frustrating to do
something that you know they are enjoying just to hear them complain at the
end. It makes it hard to want to do anything nice for them. I really don't
think he's depressed (at least not clinically so). He's been like this
forever. He was 3.5 when our 2nd was born and I didn't notice any measurable
difference for better or worse in his negative outlook on life. He loves his
baby brother (6 mos) but gets very frustrated with the 2.5 yo who follows him
around and always gets into his stuff. We do give him space and time away from
his brother but it is aggravating to hear him say that he doesn't like him.
Thank you for the book suggestion. I really kept hoping that this was a stage
that would pass but I guess that if it hasn't passed by 6 it really isn't
going to. Other people really don't understand. They do see him as kind of a
cry baby though. He doesn't always act like this in public and saves his worst
behavior for the privacy of our home. Lucky me. I need to get a handle on this
before we all drive each other crazy. Thanks Beth
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MESSAGE: (#38) Re: Just an extra side point!
AUTHOR: Inge
DATE: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 12:27 p.m.
Reply To: (#32) Re: Just an extra side point!
Author: KC
Date: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 10:14 a.m.
That sounds just like my son. He would rather play computer games than do
almost anything else. I just reread "In Their Own Way" by Armstrong and that
helped a lot. Books like "School Can Wait" are helpful too. Other countries,
especially Scandinavian, don't start academics until 7 or 8 and their children
are ahead in literacy.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#40) Re: Struggling to find our Style
AUTHOR: michelle
DATE: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 3:22 p.m.
Reply To: (#30) Struggling to find our Style
Author: KC
Date: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 10:06 a.m.
This sounds like my 8yo. Some words of advice from someone still dealing with
the same problems. First, instead of telling him what to do when, I make up a
list of all the things he has to do that day and he gets to choose what
sequence. He gets up in the morning, plays a half hour of computer (usually
Backyard soccer or baseball) and after breakfast chooses a few things to do.
Then he takes a break, I call him back and he chooses a few more things. And
it goes like that most of the day. He earns more fun computer of TV time by
finishing certain amounts of work. Needless to say we are not one of those
families that finish by noon. Some days we finish after dinner. Next, there is
nothing wrong with computer games. My son has taught himself many skills with
his educational games. Since his fine motor skills are delayed, he hates
writing answers and would much rather do the computer. I recommend Word
Munchers, Math Blaster and the Treasure series you are using. As far as unit
studies, who is choosing them. When my son decides what unit to study, he
loves doing the activities and reading the books. He even begs me to buy the
guides at the local teacher supply store we visit. (Of course you sometimes
have to prod gently to get them to move to another unit. I am sick of natural
disasters!!!) Last, as far as reading, let him choose. Once they can read I
don't use a reading series. My son prefers non-fiction and would hate to read
whatever the book says to read. Books I try to force for the educational value
are detested, until I just read them to him and then he wants to read on for
himself. I am finding the more relaxed style works well with our son. I still
make sure he moves on, but let him lead much of the way. Also look at what he
is doing. Much of children's play is learning.
Michelle
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MESSAGE: (#41) Re: My first grade son...
AUTHOR: michelle
DATE: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 3:29 p.m.
Reply To: (#16) Re: My first grade son...
Author: Cerelle
Date: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 6:01 p.m.
Cerelle, I agreee that bright kids are bored with traditional school things.
Let them do more of the leading. Let your child pick what he wants to study
and then take him to the library and get tons of books about that subject.
Read some of them to him, and just leave the rest. Together come up with a few
questions about the unit they you will investigate together and research it.
Math is sometimes the tricky thing to work in. Try using games and activities
to teach math. Family Math is an excellent book and computer games like Math
Blaster work well too. I found a book called Hands-On Math that has given me
many acitivities and my son prefers these to workbooks any day.
Michelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#42) Question
AUTHOR: dawne
DATE: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 4:53 p.m.
Reply To: (#10) resistant sons (sorry, LONG)
Author: Laura in SC
Date: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 10:05 a.m.
Laura, A question for you. According to your state laws or your umbrella group
what is req'd for writing?
When my son and I started about 8 months ago we had ups and downs of MAJOR
proportions and he was only 6.5!! What finally worked was to say "you're my
son. forever. period. no one can change that. I love you and I always will.
I'll never stop being your mom but I want to start being your team-mate". I
then explained point blank what I was working under and how state law worked.
We negotiated what we'll do and how our homeschooling will be. Its just gotten
better and better and better. On rough days we remind each other that we are a
team and the team that works together can play together.
I also skimmed a lot of fluff and got to the meat of the matter :-) For
example, I told Ben that all pen pal letters, thank yous to grandmom and lists
[toys, shopping etc..,] that he wrote I would photocopy and keep as samples of
writing. In return for me being so understanding and so cool he agreed to do
all thank yous in a good spirit without complaints. I agreed not to make him
do "busy work" for the sake of "busy work" and he agreed to keep a good
teamwork attitude.
Perhaps b/c your son has never gone to school he can't really understand how
good he has it at home?? My son knows that homeschooling really is a
privilege. We're lucky we can afford it. Most people we know struggle on 2
incomes. Gives him some perspective I think.
One last thing. A few 10 year olds around here have volunteer jobs a few hours
a week. Ever think of that?
And if all else fails how about a deep breath and think "this too shall pass".
Dawne
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MESSAGE: (#43) Re: Thanks for making me laugh!! You're right he d
AUTHOR: Katie in VA
DATE: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 4:56 p.m.
Reply To: (#35) Thanks for making me laugh!! You're right he does
Author: Beth
Date: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 11:35 a.m.
My son (who will be 7 in two days!) can be very moody and whiny. It drives me
crazy. Today we ran errands, he went to gymnastics (sensory integration
therapy), and then I took him for an MRI. He was telling jokes the whole time
and said, "Mom, I just feel so perky today." I couldn't believe it was my son!
Usually he whines his way through the errands. I just don't know what causes
the mood swings. Oh well, I guess I'm not much help here! Just wanted to say,
"Me too!" Katie
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#44) resistant sons...cont
AUTHOR: Shannon in Fla
DATE: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 7:11 p.m.
Reply To: (#13) Re: resistant sons (sorry, LONG)
Author: Robin S
Date: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 2:26 p.m.
I just have to tell you guys I was laughing so hard this morning..My resistant
son spent 1/2 figuring out how many multiplication problems he had to do...how
long it would take him if he did one per minute and two per minute.LOL He was
stalling but I let him.....what a great lesson on how to use multiplication in
the real world.......I laughed so hard! He didn't get it..score one for
MOM..... shannon in Fl
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#45) Re: Struggling to find our Style
AUTHOR: pat in oh
DATE: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 12:46 a.m.
Reply To: (#40) Re: Struggling to find our Style
Author: michelle
Date: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 3:22 p.m.
: I agree with Michelle. We have a little structure. We have set things to do
and instead of more computer games, what works best for my son, is more time
on the bedtime thing. He hates to have time taken off his bedtime. The ONLY
thing that gets him everything else comes with the response of I don't care.
Bedtime is really tough. If he doesn't complete the assigned chores or
assignments we knock out minutes. He can play his computer games all day if he
wishes, the choose is his. He understands this and the consequences of this.
If I were you I would find what works best for your son and believe me it may
take a while. As time goes on you may have to alter these things. My son just
turned 9 three days ago. Don't know if this has helped, however it is only my
input. Pat
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#46) Mine is 9 and still whinning
AUTHOR: pat in oh
DATE: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 1:00 a.m.
Reply To: (#28) My 6 yos whines constantly!!
Author: Beth
Date: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 9:57 a.m.
: My ds was a great baby and then when he turned 3 it started and everyone
said he would out grow it. Well he just turned 9 three days ago and is still
whinning. Why me, why do I always, Cry, cry, cry. He has the attitude of I
don't care. Rarely does he like anything we plan as a family and tries to
screw things up for all. Dh will say, then we won't go, and ds says I don't
care, didn't want to go anyway. I want to play playstation. My son has to have
a structured atmosphere or goes bonkers. He has to know the rules and what is
expected, but on the other hand, he has to be able to do in his own time span.
If this approach is used, we here less complaining for him. Sorry to babble on
and on, but it seems like we are kind of in the same situation. Pat
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#47) Re: Thanks for making me laugh!! You're right he d
AUTHOR: Annette
DATE: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 1:03 a.m.
Reply To: (#43) Re: Thanks for making me laugh!! You're right he d
Author: Katie in VA
Date: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 4:56 p.m.
: Katie, Have you read Raising Your sSpirited Child by Mary Kurcinka? You know
the list that we are on is based around her book. Read it...it is really worth
it. A life changer.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#48) Did somebody say "Reluctant"? (long)
AUTHOR: Susan
DATE: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 9:27 a.m.
We've got that in spades here! My 10yob has been charmingly subversive since
toddlerhood, finding loopholes or other ways to undo/get around/subvert any
discipline system or behavior program I or anyone else has tried with him. Can
you say "passive aggressive"? Help! What do I do?
I've read all those child-rearing books and tried their plans; I've watched
the Barbara Colorosa videos and tried her approach; I've been to parenting
classes; I've interviewed special ed teachers, experienced moms, etc. I've
even gone to counseling to see if there was something wrong with me. Well,
there IS, but so far I haven't seen any connection to my faults/quirks and the
child's steadfast refusal to follow house rules. Frankly, this is wearing me
out.
In general, he doesn't do dangerous stuff or mean stuff -- he subverts by
*not* doing (chores, schoolwork) or doing so sloppy he might as well not have,
and all the while he has this beautiful attitude and charms all who come into
contact with him. This is the trademark of passive aggressive personalities
(I've done my homework on that too, as it runs in his father's family.)
So. The most recent plan we tried was a point system (earn points and bonuses
with good behavior; lose points with bad behavior; buy privileges with points
earned). This worked somewhat for a few weeks but is suspended now until he
gets caught up on school work.
That is the other thing--he will not work along on medium or long term
projects, and consistently waits till the day they're due to begin. Even when
I give interim assignments (outline due by this date; rough draft due by this
date etc.), he does not do the work, despite my encouragements and offers to
help. Always late and always a sorry effort (not up to his ability). I don't
want to do the work for him, or to have to hold his hand through every
step....
Any advice? (BTW, this is our 2nd year of h.s.; the first year was largely
de-schooling and unschooling, and this year we are getting somewhat more
structured; he was never required to apply himself in public school and is
resisting my efforts to teach him how to work at something.)
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MESSAGE: (#49) All Play and No Work
AUTHOR: MRs. K (& Speci
DATE: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 9:32 a.m.
Well, I can relate to most everything I have read here. Resistance, arguing,
not doing what I say, whining about everything, etc......(sorry if this gets a
little speratic, but my thoughts tend to wander normally and now they are
being enhanced.)
My son is 7yo, is my first and has been an only (6+/- mo to a sibling). We
have rescently changed our curriculum to a more easy unit study aproach
(haven't really gotten started yet but we are not doing the books we were). I
have let him pick which topics he would like to do out of a list of 20 plus,
so I hope that will help his desire to learn about them. We also need to
establish a new schedule that will allow us to work around the baby when it
comes.
I would have to say the biggest two problems we have are he always wants to
play and he is always hungry. There are a few others but these are the two
biggest that we have. He tends to use these as excuses to get out of doing
work, any kind of work from house work to stuff he seems to be having fun
doing. It gets real agravating. (Especially right now when I feel like nausous
2/3s of the time.) We will get one thing done and he complains of being hungry
or he hasn't had any play time. He has plenty of playtime and with my need to
eat bits more often we are compensating for that area some, but he is hungry
between my snacking needs too. I know a schedule here would help a lot to,
then he could see whaen he gets to play, but I can't watch the clock because
there are times I have to stop to not (or to) get sick. This is the hardest
part for me.
We have noticed a pattern in his learning. I teach him something, and we do
the normal exercises to learn it everyday, and he just doesn;t seem to get it.
If we take a week off from that topic and do something else, and come back to
it it is like a giant leap. to put it into steps, over a week of learning it
he might go 2 steps, come back a week later and he'll be on step 7. Knowing
this pattern has helped some.
We are planning to school through the summer so we can hopefully get ahead and
be able to take some time off to enjoy the baby.
Well, I'm wandering way off subject in my head, so I will stop. I am glad to
see we are not alone in our struggles with our boys.
Mrs. K
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MESSAGE: (#50) BOYS, BOYS, BOYS!
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 9:52 a.m.
Well, judging from the content on this board already I can safely say that
there are more challenges in boys than "joys". :-)
Let's discuss why...
Here are some things my mind came up with...
Mom is a female, boy is a male.....is that in itself slightly challenging?
Let's face it males and females are just not wired the same.
Maturity factor.....boys DO mature much later than girls
Boys.... well, they are just so MASCULINE. Rough, tough, active. Hard to keep
up with sometimes.
Ok. Now that I have stereotyped boys to death (grin) let's talk about how
these "wonderful attributes" can be channeled.
Personally, I have seen that the more my boy grows up the more of daddy he
needs. Yes, he needs me too but there is something that daddy has that my son
craves.
Cerelle, what do you think?
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#51) Re: BOYS, BOYS, BOYS!
AUTHOR: Cerelle
DATE: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 10:23 a.m.
Reply To: (#50) BOYS, BOYS, BOYS!
Author: Giovanna
Date: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 9:52 a.m.
Yes, Giovanna! :)
I was just thinking this morning that we've been hearing a lot of *whining*
about these little boys. LOL!
I know that when my son was born (this was after I'd already had two girls), I
sensed an "attitude" right off the bat. It floored me! I couldn't tell if it
was really coming from HIM, or if I was just projecting. I still don't know,
to tell you the truth.
I do know that no matter how hard I tried to be non-sexist in my childrearing,
raising a boy felt different from the very beginning. For one thing, Hunter
was about 100 times LOUDER than his sisters ever were. He didn't learn to
whisper for years. (By the way, I know that some boys are very quiet -- I'm
not trying to make sweeping generalizations here, even though it must sound
like it.) This made trips to the library...well, shall we say...more
CHALLENGING than ever before.
He also had two speeds: sitting or running. No in-between. I'd say, "Hunter,
remember, no running!" And he'd smile so sweetly and say, "OK, Mom!" And then
those little legs would RUN for all they were worth. ROTFL! I swear he didn't
even know he was doing it. Walk? What's that?
And schoolwork???? HA! Forget it! This little one was always standing on his
head in the rocking chair when it was time to practice handwriting (or
whatever).
Now the GOOD news is that you'd never know it now. He writes, he reads, he
calculates...he's brilliant! And responsible, too -- he sweeps, he tend the
animals, he does kitchen chores. He even cleans up his room without being
asked! (I NEVER thought I'd be able to say that about him.)
I'm just glad I didn't try to fight it too hard. I adopted a "grin and bear
it" attitude and tried to enjoy his natural ebullience. (Of course I don't
have to say that we never allowed him to be cruel or terribly, horribly rude,
and we encouraged thoughtful behavior as much as we knew how.)
One thing I've always tried to remember is that creative and destructive urges
lie side by side. I believe that if you channel energy in CREATIVE directions,
you can bypass a lot of destructive tendencies. It's natural for little
children to want to take things apart to see what makes them tick, but it
seems like boys, especially, can go overboard in that direction. We always
tried to provide Hunter (and the girls, too, really) with things he could
safely take apart...and with lots of materials for BUILDING.
: Personally, I have seen that the more my boy
: grows up the more of daddy he needs. Yes, he
: needs me too but there is something that
: daddy has that my son craves.
OH YES! Absolutely. Still...to this day (at 14)...this is true. My husband and
I were just discussing it this morning, as a matter of fact. Hunter LOVES to
be down in the woodshop with his papa, making things. And he goes out of his
way to dress exactly like him, too. (Interesting material here for peer group
discussions!) It is very obvious that his father IS his role model and mentor
and hero.
Cerelle
: Cerelle, what do you think?
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#52) hungry all the time....
AUTHOR: Gail
DATE: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 10:50 a.m.
Reply To: (#49) All Play and No Work
Author: MRs. K (& Speci
Date: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 9:32 a.m.
Hello Mrs. K, You wrote:
: I would have to say the biggest two problems we
: have are he always wants to play and he is
: always hungry.
I have an 8 yr old like this! He's my snacker, the one constantly (well,
often) asking for something to eat. It can be hard, but I try to let him go
and pick for himself now, small healthy snacks. Maybe you could try having
snacks ready for your son to pick at when he really needs to? Just a thought.
My other boys aren't like this, so I have just accepted that my 8 yr old needs
this type of nutrition, for some reason. Gail
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#53) Re: BOYS, BOYS, BOYS!
AUTHOR: Gail
DATE: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 10:59 a.m.
Reply To: (#50) BOYS, BOYS, BOYS!
Author: Giovanna
Date: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 9:52 a.m.
Hello Giovanna, As a mom to 4 boys, I am loving this topic!!
you wrote:
: Mom is a female, boy is a male.....is that in
: itself slightly challenging? Let's face it
: males and females are just not wired the
: same.
For sure!
: Boys.... well, they are just so MASCULINE.
: Rough, tough, active. Hard to keep up with
: sometimes.
That's true. Although I was surprised to see the moodiness of my oldest when
he reach adolescence...for some reason I didn't expect my son to have
emotional ups and downs with puberty. Boy, was I wrong LOL.
: Ok. Now that I have stereotyped boys to death
: (grin) let's talk about how these
: "wonderful attributes" can be
: channeled.
There really can be so much sweetness in boys too. :-) I love watching my
older boys (13, 8 and 7) be affectionate with their 2 yr old brother.
: Personally, I have seen that the more my boy
: grows up the more of daddy he needs. Yes, he
: needs me too but there is something that
: daddy has that my son craves.
I notice this too. My boys really look to their dad as a role model, much more
than me. I don't think they would even consider wanting to be like me, because
they relate so much more to their dad! Does this make sense?
Fun to talk about, Gail
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#54) I love my boys!!!
AUTHOR: Theresa in Hawa
DATE: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 12:20 p.m.
I am the mother of two boys 10 and 14 and I guess I must be blessed but I
can't relate to the other posts (except the always being hungry part for the
14 year old!). We have homeschooled for two years now and it has been a joy
for me and the best decision I have ever made. Lest I sound like a Polyanna,
we do have our moments of selective hearing loss but I love my boys and I
can't imagine trying to raise a girl now.
The 14 year old is respectful, helpful and his creative ability floors me on a
daily basis. The younger one is completly different but just as much fun. I
just wanted to share that I love my guys and can't wait to see how they grow
and mature!
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#55) Re: BOYS, BOYS, BOYS!
AUTHOR: VickiC
DATE: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 4:13 p.m.
Reply To: (#50) BOYS, BOYS, BOYS!
Author: Giovanna
Date: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 9:52 a.m.
: Mom is a female, boy is a male.....is that in
: itself slightly challenging? Let's face it
: males and females are just not wired the
: same.
: Boys.... well, they are just so MASCULINE.
: Rough, tough, active. Hard to keep up with
: sometimes.
This reminds me of my four year old grandson's experience with swimming
lessons last summer.
The first session was taught by teenage boys. They yelled, thrashed, splashed,
threw the kids around and made me terribly nervous. But my grandson could not
get enough. Same for most of the other boys. On the other hand, most of the
girls (not all) sat at the edge of the pool or joined in during quieter games.
The second session was led by teenage girls. Lots of structure, testing what
they knew, following specific instructions to teach each skill. My grandson
was ready to quit the first day.
Now that I am working with cubscouts for the first time (I've taught school
but never taught one sex in isolation from the other), I'm more convinced of
the innate differences between the sexes than ever before. There is plenty of
room for individual differences,(I had a daughter who was a far better
athelete than most of her male classmates), but as a group, boys ARE louder
and rowdier and more physical. I've come to accept that with these cub scouts,
so we yell and move and thrash about a whole lot. It has worked well except
for fieldtrips.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#56) mmmm more info please?
AUTHOR: Kristen AKA cur
DATE: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 5:18 p.m.
Reply To: (#47) Re: Thanks for making me laugh!! You're right he d
Author: Annette
Date: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 1:03 a.m.
That book is on my "gotta read really soon" list. I am curious, what list are
you talking about?
>>>>>>? You know the list that we are on is based around her book><<<<<<<<<<<
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#57) Mama's boys
AUTHOR: Stephanie
DATE: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 5:27 p.m.
I have four boys ages 8,7,3 and 18 months (two girls as well but that's last
month's topic!). I think boys are wonderful. The two oldest are going through
a phrase(hopefully a very long one) where Mom rules. They live for my praise.
Yes, they are much louder, active and mischievous than the girls but my
relationship with them seems smoothier. I can use humor with them. Once they
start laughing, all the anger or poutiness vanish. With the girls, no way! I
think homeschooling has helped them tremendously. Not only with being able to
learn more hands on and less "sit down and write this, read this, figure this
out....." but not having the peer pressure to deal with. My oldest son has no
idea that cooking and crafts are "girls' things". He is so artistic and
creative. I wonder if public school would have taken this out of him because
he does consider himself to be pretty tough. My second oldest is just so sweet
and kind; I think he would have fallen apart in public school.
Just a little side note, a funny little boy story. Stop reading if you have
sensiblities! :) I just taught my three year old how to use the bathroom
standing up. (Before this, we would strip down and sit but that is time
consuming). At first, he was panicking, not at all sure Mom knew what she was
talking about. Then, when he realized it was going to work out fine, he said
"Whoa!" which to him means "Way cool!". Now he does this little Ricky Martin-
swivel hip thing, I guess making patterns on the water. He is just so proud of
his newfound abilities. I am wondering...is this where the male ego begins?
Stephanie
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#58) Re: BOYS, BOYS, BOYS!
AUTHOR: michelle
DATE: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 6:04 p.m.
Reply To: (#50) BOYS, BOYS, BOYS!
Author: Giovanna
Date: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 9:52 a.m.
: Personally, I have seen that the more my boy
: grows up the more of daddy he needs. Yes, he
: needs me too but there is something that
: daddy has that my son craves.
My son is 8 and every weekend Mom is not the person he wants to be with. He
and Dad are PALS!! They eat pal food, the watch pal t.v. and the play pal
games. At first I was a little put off, but now I love it. It gives me some
down time or a chance to have a mommies day out. When I heard I was pregnant
with a boy I was a little aprehensive, but now I wouldn't trade having a son
for anything.
A typical boy story. When my son was 7 months old I was visiting a friend.
Well I looked over and of course he had something he has just popped into his
mouth. I pulled it out and discovered to my horror and dead frog. That night
while at aerobics, my friend and I related the story to the instructor who has
two boys and thoought it was hilarious. (By then I could see the humor too.)
She told the rest of the class and the reaction of the moms was interesting.
The mothers of mainly daughters looked at me as if I were the worst parent on
the face of the earth. The mothers of sons just nodded and laughed. I guess we
mothers of sons understand the gross stuff, we have no choice.
Michelle
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#59) When theydo 'boy things'
AUTHOR: Jamie(nodding h
DATE: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 7:14 p.m.
Reply To: (#58) Re: BOYS, BOYS, BOYS!
Author: michelle
Date: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 6:04 p.m.
we call it 'testosterone poisoning' .
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#60) Re: When they do 'boy things'
AUTHOR: Giovanna
DATE: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 7:41 p.m.
Reply To: (#59) When theydo 'boy things'
Author: Jamie(nodding h
Date: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 7:14 p.m.
: we call it 'testosterone poisoning' .
HA! LOL!
This is the funniest thing I've read. Aren't boys just something?
My son was my first born. He demanded...and I mean DEMANDED that he be fed
every three hours, didn't sleep through the night till he was at least 6
months old and to get him to sleep was such an ORDEAL!!!!
He was/is like Cerelle's son.... never really walks, still doesn't know how to
whisper. (grin) He is now 8 years old.
When I had my second, my daughter Rachel, I thought something was wrong with
her. She slept calmly the whole night at 3 weeks old, never really demanded
anything and at 5 years old she is such a mature little girl. She knows how to
whisper!
Definite difference here.
But that boy of mine has made me laugh so much. The things he comes up with!
Yep.... he can be unbearable but yet he can be such a HAM!
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#61) Same basic story...
AUTHOR: Kristen AKA cur
DATE: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 10:15 p.m.
Reply To: (#58) Re: BOYS, BOYS, BOYS!
Author: michelle
Date: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 6:04 p.m.
Only with "bunny pellets".
LOL lol LOL ~~(*-*)~~
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#62) What privileges does he have?
AUTHOR: Cafi in Califor
DATE: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 10:20 p.m.
Reply To: (#48) Did somebody say "Reluctant"? (long)
Author: Susan
Date: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 9:27 a.m.
Susan -- What privileges does he have? TV? Computer? Access to games, toys,
friends, telephone?
Cafi in California
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#63) Re: mmmm more info please?
AUTHOR: Annette
DATE: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 11:34 p.m.
Reply To: (#56) mmmm more info please?
Author: Kristen AKA cur
Date: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 5:18 p.m.
Its the home schooling spirited kids list at onelist. It is a great group of
moms. Some are not home schooling presently but very interested, trying to get
the nerve up to take the plunge, doing their investigating work,etc. Come on
over...we would love to have you. I have tried to link you below. Just in
case....
spirited-homeschool@egroups.com
Link: Home schooling spirited kids list
URL:
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#64) Re: What privileges does he have?
AUTHOR: Susan
DATE: Wednesday, 5 April 2000, at 4:40 a.m.
Reply To: (#62) What privileges does he have?
Author: Cafi in Califor
Date: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 10:20 p.m.
Cafi,
At this point, he has very few privileges. Computer is only for school use (no
games, no surfing); no company; no phone, etc. He does have access to
non-school books, toys and games, and I had wondered if we should gut his room
of all those but am starting to feel more like a drill sarge than a Mom. What
do you think?
Susan
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#65) My .02 (very long)
AUTHOR: Barbara
DATE: Wednesday, 5 April 2000, at 8:38 a.m.
Reply To: (#64) Re: What privileges does he have?
Author: Susan
Date: Wednesday, 5 April 2000, at 4:40 a.m.
Dear Susan,
I just had to "butt in" when you used the phrase about gutting his room . . .
when our son was about 6 yo he developed an attitude of entitlement (the old
"I don't have to do anything but exist and all good things are supposed to
come to me" idea). He really needed a wake-up call about his responsibility to
those around him (i.e. his father and me) and, in the larger picture, to his
future self. Therefore, in an effort to get his attention, his father
literally cleaned out his room of everything except his bed and his clothes.
He was told that our responsibility to him was to provide food, clothing,
shelter and security PERIOD. Anything else he was given (in a tangible,
physical sense) was a gift. He had to earn each of his treasured possessions
back by improved behavior (in this case, being more helpful around the house,
being more considerate of others, etc.). In addition, even after he earned
back his Sega Genesis, he was only permitted to use it on weekends and only
after doing his chores. He was absolutely shocked by the "great purge" and it
took him a while to understand how serious we were that he had to recognize
his responsibilities and that we were not going to back down. However, it did
work and, today, he's 15 and is one of the nicest, most considerate persons
you would ever have the pleasure of knowing. I hope you will give additional
thought to your idea of removing all his "treasures" -- it could be the start
of something good.
Barbara
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#66) My boys
AUTHOR: Sissy M.
DATE: Wednesday, 5 April 2000, at 10:35 a.m.
I have 3 boys; 9, 7 and 2. My 9yo is my "deep thinker", my worrier and my most
sensitive child. We talk about "life" which I enjoy doing with him. My 7yo is
my "helper" and so obedient and easy to raise it almost scares me! My 2yo is
well...what can I say...a 2 year old! He is a lot of fun. Now compared to
their sister who is 11(going on 16) all 3 of them put together have been
easier to raise so far than her. Her obsessing about her weight, hair, clothes
etc. about drives me crazy some days! I don't know if I could take more than 1
daughter although I love having one!!
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#67) Re: Struggling to find our Style
AUTHOR: Katie
DATE: Wednesday, 5 April 2000, at 6:18 p.m.
Reply To: (#30) Struggling to find our Style
Author: KC
Date: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 10:06 a.m.
: Okay I love this topic...right up my alley. I
: have two sons aged 6 (almost 7) and 4. It is
: the 6 year old that I struggle with and I
: can RELATE to all the posts so far! At first
: he was eager if not anxious to start
: "school" and this year has learned
: to read, do basic math (even started doing
: adding problems in the larger numbers like
: 23 + 13) and is avidly loving gardening that
: we started....BUT and there is a large
: one...he resists almost ALL things I
: plan...I may plan a wonderful (at least in
: my opinion) unit study and he looks at me
: and crumbles. He has NO desire at times to
: do anything I plan or ask of him
: academically. Then the struggle begins! I
: ask him what does he want to do and his
: response is ALWAYS...Play, play play. Now I
: know he is VERY young and has learned alot
: this year but for some unknown reason I feel
: the NEED to continue pushing him to "do
: school" everyday! I almost think at
: times that unschooling is what he wants..to
: be left alone to play and explore and yet
: then after about 1-2 hours of that he is
: into the I'm Bored thing and then I feel
: like we need more structure!! UGH I am sooo
: confused...so all you seasoned moms with
: sons and great words of wisdom are welcome
: to set me straight. Oh and by the way in our
: state he DOESN'T even officially have to
: begin schooling til the age of 7...so I ask
: myself WHAT am I doing worrying about this?
: HAHA.Thanks for your help..what do you
: think..unschooling, structured..or maybe
: both..unit studies..Oh my I get soooo
: confused!!!
: Blessings, KC
Okay KC, This is what I think. I think he's learned a lot so far even though
you didn't need to start yet. Congratulations! Now yes, back off. Let him
play, he's probably processing everthing he has learned so far. When he gets
bored offer to play with him and do whatever he wants. Observe his interests
and then when it's gift time give him educational things that are right up his
alley. I leave my 11 son to learn for himself. We provide lots of books, trips
to the library, videos, a chemistry set, we bought him a drafting kit and
portfolio for Christmas. We told family members to give him educational stuff
instead of toys (except his favorite--Legos of course). Let him lead his own
learning and come to you for support and you may be surprised to see how easy
life becomes with him. This appraoch helped with my son, he was always bright
but spent a lot of time daydreaming in school and even though he did well in
testing, getting him to participate in class, write and do homework was like
pulling teeth. Give it a whirl, you've got nothing to loose. Katie
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#68) what is your "balance?"
AUTHOR: Maureen
DATE: Thursday, 6 April 2000, at 2:06 a.m.
Reply To: (#23) Re: resistant sons (sorry, LONG)
Author: Sue in NY
Date: Sunday, 2 April 2000, at 11:14 p.m.
One thing I've heard is that school is rather a "break" or "relief" for kids
with decent workloads beyond their school requirements...for instance, I've
heard this rule of thumb...1/3 work (chores), 1/3 school/study, 1/3 freetime.
At ten, it seems most boys would definitely benefit from the work. I've heard
many homeschool families do chores first, then the kids get physically worked
a bit first and are looking forward to some school and study. I don't know if
this is helpful at all in your case, but my son (forgive me, he is just about
5 and definitely not 10) is quite eager after a morning of chores (not very
hard ones at his age, but they keep him busy) to sit down and get some
attention from me and do his schoolwork. He doesn't enjoy all of his work, but
sometimes, if it is pretty rough, we'll either come up with a priveledge to
motivate it's completion (could be another assignment more to his liking or
some time playing on the computer), or put it on the backburner to complete on
another day. I've heard some parents have a ratio of 2 fun assignments for
every less enjoyed assignment completed. The priveledge, reward thing works
fairly well in our son's world...it just took awhile to figure out what would
truly motivate him and then, viola!
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#69) Jump start on channeling all that energy!
AUTHOR: CC
DATE: Thursday, 6 April 2000, at 2:05 p.m.
Although my boys aren't old enough to formally homeschool, I found out when my
oldest was under two that providing structure was beneficial for us both. (Him
to channel that energy and for me to get a wrestling break). That's why I'm
here. I am developing mini-unit plans that provide a terrific outlet for that
mental (and physical) curiosity, and thanks to many on this board and friends
from church my days are getting more peaceful. (If I can get myself organized
each day!)
I never knew how creative small males can be. Anything is an art medium
(chairs, walls, floors, occasionally paper). Anything can be an Everest.
Anything can be an opportunity for developing athletic prowess. Anything can
be an event.
I have some neat pictures of our busier days with emptied drawers, changing
tables, walls and floors picture perfect for memories. Whew! No wonder I look
forward to bed-time like never before.
Also- what an oppportunity for character development in mom this has been.
Patience, kindness, gentle answers, consistent training...all areas of
character development in ME.
I know these boys will eventually be men and I will watch them fly into the
next generation. Doing my best to fix my thoughts above and for the gift these
guys are...
Wishing all of you the best, too...Love to hear about some of the ways you all
channel that energy and focus on all the good there is...
CC
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#70) Re: Mama's boys
AUTHOR: Maureen
DATE: Friday, 7 April 2000, at 1:36 a.m.
Reply To: (#57) Mama's boys
Author: Stephanie
Date: Tuesday, 4 April 2000, at 5:27 p.m.
He he! I love your post! I think maybe people who are just enjoying their sons
have less input or something, I don't know. My son is nearly 5 and he's my
firstborn. We have 2 girls younger than him. I just love him to death. We
certainly have had our challenges, but at this point in time, things seem to
be coming about just right. He used to have a lot of bad attitude problems
that we nipped in the bud with some of the "To Train Up a Child" methods. He's
much the happier and more enjoyable as a result. He's fairly helpful and LOVES
babies, the one he loves most is his 8 month old baby sister. He loves music
and baseball and tries to mix the two to his teammates chagrin! :-)
Sometimes I worry that Daddy will not like some of my son's more sensitive
approaches to life, but hopefully together we can mold him into the man that
God wants him to become. How do you encourage your husband to delight in the
things your son loves but your husband worries might turn him effeminate? How
do you know when to stay out of it? My son truly LOVES the color pink and
appreciates the beauty that commonly is enjoyed by women and girls. I
appreciate it, but my hubby, a normal male, worries.
Well, that's all for now, gals and guys!
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#71) Re: Thanks for making me laugh!! You're right he d
AUTHOR: Maureen
DATE: Friday, 7 April 2000, at 2:31 a.m.
Reply To: (#43) Re: Thanks for making me laugh!! You're right he d
Author: Katie in VA
Date: Monday, 3 April 2000, at 4:56 p.m.
Could it be the intense exercise at gymnastics that made him feel better? I
know the males in my husband's family really need their excercise or their
attitude goes to pot. you said he felt so perky after gymnastics...there might
be a little clue here. Other than that, I hope you do give him consequences
for bad attitudes and add priveledges for good attitudes (even a little later
bedtime can do the trick) the thing is to make it obvious to him exactly where
he went right and exactly where he went wrong. My son, 5, a lot younger than
yours, had some significant attitude problems and after reading "To train up a
child" we started using the switch every time he started getting an attitude
problem and it's like I have a different child living in my home. I don't know
that I'd recommend switching for an older child, but I do recommend
consequences and the book. It's incredible what has changed at our home.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#75) Re: Mama's boys
AUTHOR: Stephanie
DATE: Saturday, 8 April 2000, at 8:57 a.m.
Reply To: (#70) Re: Mama's boys
Author: Maureen
Date: Friday, 7 April 2000, at 1:36 a.m.
My husband sometimes will seem a bit amused with my son's interests but we
have had no big issues over it. My son also loves to help Dad work on the car,
build things with wood and power tools, play every kind of sport you can think
of, program computers. He is just a renaissance kid. He is the one who always
has some new ideas to try. When he was five, he was convinced he could design
a bicycle with wings and it would fly. He just kept working on the drawings.
We tried to tell him men have been trying to do that for hundreds of years but
he was determined. Well, that went away and for the past two years, he has
been designing paper airplanes. It will be very interesting what he does with
his life as an adult.
Stephanie H.
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#76) Re: Thanks for making me laugh!! You're right he d
AUTHOR: Kim
DATE: Saturday, 8 April 2000, at 9:20 a.m.
Reply To: (#71) Re: Thanks for making me laugh!! You're right he d
Author: Maureen
Date: Friday, 7 April 2000, at 2:31 a.m.
: Could it be the intense exercise at gymnastics
: that made him feel better?
I was thinking excercise, too. My oldest (who happens to be a girl ) is very
much like the first boy in the top of this thread and ecxercise... LOTS of
excercise was the only thing that would help. I'm talking ... like a miles
worth of running probably. She would have to run the length of our courtyard
where we lived before and back and it was one. After she did TEN we would
talk. Sometimes she would need another 5... The neighbours probably thought we
were insane... and maybe we were but THEY didn't have to live with her.
My dh and I also use the Eeyore analogy... sure was a nice pile of thistles
.... too good for me ... didn't think I ever COULD have such a nice pile of
thistles ... ;-P
Some days it is HARD to reward the behaviour you want and ignore the stuff you
don't . ( Maybe ignore is too strong of a word ? ) But I've found it really
does help !
Cerelle- I know you hit the nail on the head at my house. You are so wise !
***************************************************************************
MESSAGE: (#77) My little 7 yo boy just woke up...
AUTHOR: Kim
DATE: Saturday, 8 April 2000, at 9:22 a.m.
and came in and cuddled up in a big hug and said ... " I loooove you, Mommy!"
awww =8,-) now I remember why I like 7 yo boys !! They are so cute ! ;-)
***************************************************************************
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