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Homeschool 911 (part 2)
======================================== MESSAGE: If I had to write with a pencil I would never.... AUTHOR: Peg DATE: Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 4:39 p.m. Response To: BAD DAY!!!!! Author: Kim Date: Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 12:20 p.m. If I had to write with a pencil I would never get anything published. With a word processor/computer, I no longer lose my train of thought while trying to make my HANDwriting legible. Maybe he's frustrated that he can't write fast enough by hand and it stops up the creative flow. I understand your concern about writing, as it is a vital skill necessary for life & college. However, writing & penmanship are two totally separate subjects in my book. Does he type? Once he gets to college, he'll find professors won't accept handwritten reports, so if he doesn't already type he might as well learn now. Are you insistent on cursive handwriting? I started my now 6yo dd on the Italics program to avoid some of the frustration of cursive and next year I plan to teach her to type. As far as the journal goes, why not let him record it on audio tape, then play it back as typing practice. Have you tried "free writing"? One of my college English profs used this to get us going and it really helps. Set a timer for 3-5 minutes. Put pencil to paper & don't lift it from the paper till the bell rings. Doesn't matter if you write the same thing over & over. Just keep the pencil moving. Sometimes I start with "why am I doing this...I'm hungry...I don't want to be here....the chair is hard...." Sounds silly, but it works. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: BAD DAY!!!!! AUTHOR: Katie DATE: Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 8:59 p.m. Response To: BAD DAY!!!!! Author: Kim Date: Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 12:20 p.m. My 6th gr. son hates to write too. I don't make him do it but he does it when he feels he needs to for whatever project/invention/experiment he is currently working on. I decided to teach him business/personal letter writing, resume/application/report writing later on when he'll need it more. What's the rush? > My DS hates and I means hates to > write. He is doing BF ancient history > and has written the paper on Ancient > Egypt. I stoped using "Writing > the Novel Way, because he hated it. > I told him for the month of Dec. I would > just let him write what he wanted ( > without prompts) He said he liked to > write that way. As a prelude we decided > to journal this month for 10 min a day. > Well we haven't been so good about it, > but today when I asked him to complete > his journal, he started about how he > hates writing and can't remember some > letters in cursive. When the pencil > was throw across the room, I HAD it > and lost my temper! Write now I just > want to throw in the towel. I just don't > feel right about NO Writing at all. > Even doesn't even like to answer questions > in written form. He is a bright 6th > grader(gifted) but anything that takes > time and effort is met with an arguement! > I know if I express this with my husband > one more time, he will tell me its time > to send him to a private school! ANY > SUGGESTIONS!! ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: If I had to write with a pencil I would never.... AUTHOR: Kim DATE: Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 9:46 p.m. Response To: If I had to write with a pencil I would never.... Author: Peg Date: Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 4:39 p.m. Dear Ped, Yes he gets frustrated and says he can write faster in printing > Maybe he's frustrated that he can't > write fast enough by hand and it stops > up the creative flow. I am planning ( right now) to homeschool him until High School, I think he needs some "writing" skills by then, pensmanship, I am not worried about. I am concerned when he tells me he forgets some letters in cursive, Should I worry? I don't make him write anything in cursive! > I understand your concern about > writing, as it is a vital skill necessary > for life & college. However, writing > & penmanship are two totally separate > subjects in my book. Yes he does type, and loves the computer. All of his writing assignments are done on the computer > Does he type? Once he gets to college, > he'll find professors won't accept handwritten > reports, so if he doesn't already type > he might as well learn now. What is the Italics program - do you have any info on it/web site? > Are you insistent on cursive handwriting? > I started my now 6yo dd on the Italics > program to avoid some of the frustration > of cursive and next year I plan to teach > her to type. > As far as the journal goes, why > not let him record it on audio tape, > then play it back as typing practice. > I had hoped the "journal" would be a type of "freewriting" but I asked him to do it in cursive, maybe that was not a good idea!! I can see where it would inhibit him. He says he just likes to write as it comes to him. In an effort to salvage some of our "language" program, I asked him to take the month of December and just freewrite me a story 4 - 5 typed pages long. Then the beginning of the year, we would work on editing it. Does that sound practical or reasonable. What your described below is what I has hoped for, but it didn't turn out that way. After the air settled this afternoon, we hugged made up, cried and talked about it. Thanks for all the encouragement. This board is great! > Have you tried "free writing"? > One of my college English profs used > this to get us going and it really helps. > Set a timer for 3-5 minutes. Put pencil > to paper & don't lift it from the > paper till the bell rings. Doesn't matter > if you write the same thing over & > over. Just keep the pencil moving. Sometimes > I start with "why am I doing this...I'm > hungry...I don't want to be here....the > chair is hard...." > Sounds silly, but it works. ======================================== MESSAGE: Please, everyone read Peg's post! Right on! (Or do I mean "Write on"?) AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 11:13 p.m. Response To: If I had to write with a pencil I would never.... Author: Peg Date: Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 4:39 p.m. Peg, you said it all so well! This is exactly what I wanted to tell Kim. Freewriting to the rescue! The only thing I have to add is that most children who hate to write have learned the hard way that they rarely (or never) have ownership of their own writing. Adults assign it, insist on it, pick at it, scrutinize it, correct it, get angry about it, and ultimately reject it. Rarely is a child truly allowed to OWN a piece of writing unless s/he manages to keep it totally secret, away from the prying eyes of well-meaning teachers and parents. THIS IS A CRYING SHAME. For years, I have encouraged parents to make freewriting the cornerstone of their children's writing practice, and to honor all freewriting as something that belongs entirely to the child. "This writing does not belong to YOU," I tell the parents. "What this means is that you do not have the right to praise or criticize it. You do not have the right to suggest changes to it. You do not have the right to insist that it be saved or destroyed. All of these choices belong to the person who produced the writing." This can be a very, very tough lesson for the parent, and yet it is an incredibly important one to learn. How do I know? Ah, I'm a parent, too, and I used to be a fairly meddlesome one, at that, but these habits can be overcome. I am walking proof! And my children do LOVE to write, so it was well worth the effort *I* had to put forth in order to change my mistaken attitudes and practices. ;-D Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Isn't it a strange double-standard that... AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 1:11 a.m. Response To: Re: If I had to write with a pencil I would never.... Author: Kim Date: Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 9:46 p.m. No one cares whether or not adults write in cursive or print, but everyone acts like it's a huge deal for children. They turn 8 and bingo! They MUST start learning to write in cursive. Why? Strangers usually comment on how beautiful my husband's handwriting is, but you know what? He prints! It is indeed a very handsome penmanship style, and it's highly legible, too -- but it would earn him failing grades if he were in 4th grade. Isn't that WEIRD? As an adult, he gets high marks for something we don't let the 9-year-old children in school classrooms do. Something is really wacky, here! We're following rules that don't make much sense, just because they seem to have the weight of solemn tradition behind them. Now, if beautiful flowing script is really important to you, then this is probably something you fervently want your children to achieve...and I think it's fine to teach it as a valued skill. I just think we should know why we're doing it. If a parent can say, "I think it's terrible that modern Americans have such poor penmanship skills, and I intend to make sure my children can write as beautifully as Europeans in the 19th century did," then good! That parent has a clear mission and will probably produce children with gorgeous handwriting. Something else may have to be sacrificed, though, because there are only so many hours in a day. I decided years ago that as much as I admire pretty handwriting, I don't care THAT much about seeing to it that my kids learn to make beautiful cursive letters. I'd rather spend their time and mine on other stuff. Education is about choices. As homeschoolers, we get to make lots of them, and I think it pays to be aware of the choices we're making and WHY. Then we can proceed with confidence and energy. Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Postscript about freewriting and writing by hand AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 4:34 a.m. Response To: Please, everyone read Peg's post! Right on! (Or do I mean "Write on"?) Author: Cerelle Date: Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 11:13 p.m. I've got to tell a funny story on myself. This summer, Hunter (newly turned 14) and I got to meet in person someone I'd met here at Kaleidoscapes -- someone to whom I had sung the praises of freewriting. I'll be the first to admit that I'm a bit of an evangelist when it comes to freewriting, and I always swear by its effectiveness at coaxing reluctant writers to loosen up and enjoy expressing themselves at last. So here we are, meeting in person, and the subject of freewriting comes up. And Hunter, my dear son, begins to talk VOLUBLY about how he absolutely can't STAND freewriting. HA!!! I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. I felt like the Wizard of Oz, when Toto pulls the curtain back and exposes him as a humbug. :-D Well. Once I'd had time to consider, I thought to myself that it doesn't really matter whether or not Hunter likes or dislikes freewriting -- the important thing is that he does love to write. Furthermore, there hasn't been any need for me to encourage him to freewrite in a long time, since he cheerfully writes things on his own all the time, without being begged, bribed, or threatened. Not by hand, of course. He does almost all his writing on the computer. Then I realized...DUH...we've always done freewriting by hand, on paper. There was no particular reason for doing it that way, except that it was convenient to have everyone gathered at the table, freewriting away, while the kitchen timer counted off the minutes. Hunter does truly dislike the mechanics of writing with a pen or pencil in his hand, even more than my older two (which is saying a lot). Drawing's OK -- he loves to draw -- but writing's another matter entirely, and as I mentioned in an earlier post, *I* don't care whether or not he has lovely handwriting, so I've never pushed it. He can do every bit of his writing on the computer, as far as I'm concerned. (I figure computer literacy will be much more important commodity than penmanship, when Hunter is an adult.) Anyway, I soon understood, upon reflection, that the reason Hunter shudders at the thought of freewriting is because, in his mind, it always involved writing with a pen(cil) in his hand, whereas all the other kinds of writing he does voluntarily are done on the keyboard. I could go off into a theoretical rhapsody about his "problems with mixed dominance" and how the computer is probably a much more suitable medium for Hunter, since he's able to use both sides of his brain while writing, etc., etc. That may be true, and it's certainly an interesting idea, but the only thing that really matters, in my book, is that he feels encouraged to keep writing. Some days, it's all I can do to elbow my way to the computer because he's working away at his latest Star Wars adventure. For several years, the only tears shed over writing around here have been due to my insistence that the fun stop long enough to get some OTHER things done. Anyway, my message is this: Freewriting can be done on the computer, too. (Now why didn't I just say that in the first place? :) I apologize for being SO longwinded tonight. Good grief!) Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Yes I have the VERY SAME PROBLEM AUTHOR: madria DATE: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 6:52 a.m. Response To: BAD DAY!!!!! Author: Kim Date: Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 12:20 p.m. My son is the same age and gifted too. After 3 yrs of listening to teachers tell me He would not write his work someone finally realized he has a problem with writing. I have not had him tested yet but the problem is called DYSGRAPHIA. Of course there are different severities of it. I pulled my son out of ps and am now hsing. We did this in the middle of October. Right now we do not have a set secedule on our hsing but he does history and science, some math and of course reading. I do not ask him to write. I do not know how I will do hsing I have not figured out everything yet. All I know at this point is He can't do it (without major trouble). So I will figure something out. Right now he is typing all his work and it is working so far. The way I figure it is, in the future there will be so much new technology that this problem will not hold him back. The most important thing to me at this point is to have him enjoy learning again....In the same boat...Madria > My DS hates and I means hates to > write. He is doing BF ancient history > and has written the paper on Ancient > Egypt. I stoped using "Writing > the Novel Way, because he hated it. > I told him for the month of Dec. I would > just let him write what he wanted ( > without prompts) He said he liked to > write that way. As a prelude we decided > to journal this month for 10 min a day. > Well we haven't been so good about it, > but today when I asked him to complete > his journal, he started about how he > hates writing and can't remember some > letters in cursive. When the pencil > was throw across the room, I HAD it > and lost my temper! Write now I just > want to throw in the towel. I just don't > feel right about NO Writing at all. > Even doesn't even like to answer questions > in written form. He is a bright 6th > grader(gifted) but anything that takes > time and effort is met with an arguement! > I know if I express this with my husband > one more time, he will tell me its time > to send him to a private school! ANY > SUGGESTIONS!! ======================================== MESSAGE: Write On!!!! Thanks for the confirmation and encouragement AUTHOR: Tracey DATE: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 8:17 a.m. Response To: Postscript about freewriting and writing by hand Author: Cerelle Date: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 4:34 a.m. of how we do things around here!!!!! My kids love to write and i know the freewriting is why!!! Tracey ======================================== MESSAGE: Right, Cerelle. I consider penmanship to be part of our ART curriculum. AUTHOR: Peg DATE: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 9:38 a.m. Response To: Isn't it a strange double-standard that... Author: Cerelle Date: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 1:11 a.m. You're absolutley right, Cerelle! > No one cares whether or not adults > write in cursive or print, but everyone > acts like it's a huge deal for children. > They turn 8 and bingo! They MUST start > learning to write in cursive. I remember how hard I struggled (and still struggle) to improve my penmanship. Now I tell people I went to the pre-med school of handwriting! > I'd rather spend their time > and mine on other stuff. Me, too. > Education is about choices. As > homeschoolers, we get to make lots of > them, and I think it pays to be aware > of the choices we're making and WHY. > Then we can proceed with confidence > and energy. Excellent advice for any educator regardless of the subject. ======================================== MESSAGE: This is a tough one, but here goes... AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 10:00 a.m. Response To: Motivation.....for ME ? Author: Lee Date: Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 8:14 a.m. This isn't advice. This is just what I've noticed happening with us. I sometimes feel like a rubberband that's been stretched wayyyyy too many times. I simply don't have the same kind of bounce (and resolve to stick to a routine) that I had years ago. Maybe I've seen too many routines come and go around here to get very excited about inaugurating a new one. When I first noticed this change in my attitude, I was ALARMED. Sometimes it still alarms me a little, to tell the truth. I look back with real fondness and nostalgia on those days when I still had the ability to carve order out of chaos. *sniff* It almost brings a tear to my eye. Oh, well. So it goes. When I look back on it, it almost seems like I've been gently wading into an ocean of chaos for many years, now, and I've just about gotten over the shock of it. To paraphrase the title of an old book, "I've Been in Chaos So Long, It Looks Like Order to Me." That's probably NOT what you wanted to hear, though. Let me see if I can come at this from a different angle... I think I have probably lost most of my motivation to stick to my old routine, too. But that's OK, because I have plenty of motivation to do things a different way now. It's my belief that when a routine loses its oomph, it's time to go shopping for a new routine! Or at least the time has come to give the old one a face-lift. If you've lost your enthusiasm for checking your children's work, maybe there's too much same-old same-old going on. Truthfully, I haven't "checked my children's work" in years -- we must not do that kind of work anymore. If you're up to your chin in chaos and don't like it and don't want to be there, you CAN get back on dry land. It'll take a concerted effort to pull free and regroup, though, and it's something you'll probably have to keep working at, if you're at all like me. In my life, nothing works forever -- I have to keep tinkering and tweaking and fine-tuning and readjusting. I doubt this has helped at all, but maybe it's a comfort to you, just knowing you're not the Lone Ranger! Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Sounds like you're right on track.... AUTHOR: Peg DATE: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 10:37 a.m. Response To: Re: If I had to write with a pencil I would never.... Author: Kim Date: Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 9:46 p.m. > What is the Italics program - do > you have any info on it/web site? Italic Handwriting Series by Getty & Dubay Published by Continuing Education Press, Portland State University "Italic is a modern handwriting system.....eliminating the abrupt leap from "ball & stick" to looped cursive. SELF-ASSESSMENT is an integral part of the program." (emphasis mine, Cerelle's post about kids owning their writing is so true) Can't remember if I ordered it direct or from Timberdoodle. If you & the librarian can read his handwriting, don't worry about it. > He says he just likes to write as it comes to > him. THIS IS EXCELLENT! Let him go with that & don't worry about structured writing assignments. Deadlines, on the other hand, are essential no matter how old we get. Procrastination is the downfall of all professional writers. >In an effort to salvage some of > our "language" program, I'm not familiar with your writing program. If he is like most of the hs kids his age I've met, he is probably mature enough to use "adult" writing materials like "The Elements of Style" by Strunk & White, and "The Bedford Handbook for Writers" by Diana Hacker. "Word by Word" by Anne Lamott and "Wild Mind, Living the Writer's Life" by Natalie Goldberg, both text or audiotape, are also useful. You might also find him a copy of Writer's Market. It gives guidelines for selling material to a variety of publications (if necessary trim out the pages about men's magazines!). Editor's do not check the age of their writers, so he has the opportunity to get published & paid, as long as he presents professional quality work. Are there any writer's guilds nearby? My writer's guild welcomes all ages, although most of the members are grandparents. This particular group is very non-competitive and non-threatening. They applaud everyones work and give encouraging advice. > asked him to take the month of December > and just freewrite me a story 4 - 5 > typed pages long. Then the beginning > of the year, we would work on editing > it. Does that sound practical or reasonable. Sounds very reasonable. The only thing I'd change is the focus on page length. Specifying page length is very limiting to story-telling. As long as it has an intro, a middle (preferably with some type of conflict) and an ending, don't worry about the length right now. The most important thing is to tell a story. All GOOD writing tells a story--college essays, newspaper articles, religious doctrine, whatever. You can't go wrong by focusing on the story at this stage. Later, during revisions the length will naturally change as he adds elements to the plot and polishes his grammar. > that way. After the air settled this > afternoon, we hugged made up, cried > and talked about it. Thanks for all > the encouragement. This board is great! > You've got a great relationship. Relax, you're doing the right things. ======================================== MESSAGE: Same problem w/ cursive and 13 yr. old ds..question about Italic.... AUTHOR: Christina DATE: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 11:59 a.m. Response To: BAD DAY!!!!! Author: Kim Date: Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 12:20 p.m. I plan on using Italic to teach my 3 yr. old to write when she is old enough. I have been thinking that maybe I could re-teach the 13 yr. old? He hates writing and his penmanship is so awful! I have tried to encourage him to learn to type but that is another story! Any opinions on how hard it might be to teach him to write Italic? ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Same problem w/ cursive and 13 yr. old ds..question about Italic.... AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 12:20 p.m. Response To: Same problem w/ cursive and 13 yr. old ds..question about Italic.... Author: Christina Date: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 11:59 a.m. Christina, I've seen Italic materials aimed at re-training adults. It's a little like learning calligraphy, and I think it's a very pretty style. Italic might be something worth exploring as a solution to your son's handwriting difficulties, but whether it's easy or hard will probably depend primarily on this one thing: Does your son want to have better handwriting? If he doesn't care much about his penmanship, one way or the other, you have 3 options (as I see it): 1) You can persuade him to care. Or, to put it another way, you can "motivate" him. (This may be easy or difficult, depending on a number of factors, such as how influential you are with your son, how resistant he is in this particular area, how much he generally desires to please you, etc.) 2) You can back off on the whole handwriting thing, until such time as he decides it's something he would like to work on. (This will probably be easy for him, but possibly hard for you.) 3) You can try to improve his handwriting without his willing cooperation. (This will likely be very difficult for both of you.) Before choosing, ask yourself how important it is to you to go to work on his handwriting right now. My husband loves to tell the story of how terrible his handwriting was when he was a kid (I've seen samples and I can vouch for this) until he was 16. At that age, he suddenly wished to have better handwriting and worked at it on his own. His attractive style was formed then, at age 16. Just something to keep in mind... Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Anyone tried the 2 months on and 1 month off schedule to AVOID burnout?... AUTHOR: Dawne DATE: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 12:24 p.m. I understand that some districts [one part of CA for example] set up public school to school 2 months and then be off for one month. They continue this way year round. My friend who teaches in a district with this schedule LOVES it. I've been thinking about the advantages a schedule like this could offer a hs family. I'd love to just take Dec. off. Spend the time making gifts [we rarely buy for the relatives] and decorations. Reading great stories holiday related or not. Using math in the kitchen for pies and cookies. Playing in the snow if we get any. Now Jan. and Feb. around here are just plain nasty! Cold, wet and icy. Perfect time, IMO, to get some work done [projects, research and bookwork]. We rarely want to go out and do so only for food or boy scouts [2 times a month is not bad]. EVERYthing else just waits till March. And what of summer? I don't want to spend May inside! Around here May is warm but not too hot. And Aug. I"ll give you August b/c its so muggy and hot and prime hayfever season. I'd rather have September which is usually very nice. Who wants to be missing those early fall days? What do you guys think? Homeschooling is about flexibility but I worry about not doing a lesson of Saxon Math everyday. [btw, it takes very little time for us] Dawne ======================================== MESSAGE: one thought AUTHOR: Dawne DATE: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 12:41 p.m. Response To: Is anybody lonely??? Author: vicki in nc Date: Wednesday, 10 November 1999, at 7:45 p.m. This can be burnout for me, and I then begin > to question whether I just need to go back to work. It passes, but is creeping up lots. Any ideas? thanks, vicki in nc Vicki, If you worked full time I think you would have a creeping feeling that you needed to be home. Grass is always greener????? While work is a great outlet, its not the only place to be valued for something OTHER than your mothering skills. Personally I just finished my degree in a weekend program. It was great. Every three weeks I went off to class for a few hours. No one knew I was a mother or even a wife. all they cared about was what was in my head. Of course they got to know me somewhat and heard about my family but the interaction is different somehow. Sometimes, IMO, we need a bit of validation that doesn't come from being a great mother [although that is wonderful to receive too]. Taking a class toward a degree or just for fun might be a good step. The Park And Rec. people around here often have classes for one night a week for 7 - 10 weeks. They aren't too expensive either. Taking a martial art is a great way for me to meet people, all sorts of people. Puts a bit of spice back in my life. There is also an email loop called FEMALE. Formerly Employed Mothers At The Leading Edge. I plan to learn more about it. Let me know if you want to know more. I have a friend with the email adress and I could share it. Dawne ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Anyone tried the 2 months on and 1 month off schedule to AVOID burnout?... AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 1:31 p.m. Response To: Anyone tried the 2 months on and 1 month off schedule to AVOID burnout?... Author: Dawne Date: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 12:24 p.m. > I've been thinking about the advantages > a schedule like this could offer a hs > family. I'd love to just take Dec. off. We always take December off! :-) And contrary to the rest of the world our summers are very "academically packed". It's just too darn hot in Florida to go outside so we hibernate and do "school". Our weather now is getting WONDERFUL so we are spending more time outside. Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: I agree too Cerelle is right. AUTHOR: Marianne DATE: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 4:11 p.m. Response To: Right, Cerelle. I consider penmanship to be part of our ART curriculum. Author: Peg Date: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 9:38 a.m. > When anyone goes to college statistics have proven through testing that the same topic can be handed to professors > one hand written and one typed and the professor will inevitably choose the typed one. More jobs rely upon the computer and word processors than ever before. My daughter has terrible hand writing, a difficulty from first grade up. I had to get a waver to excuse her from being graded upon her hand writing skills. My question to one teacher was this... "are her answers correct, is her work accurate, are her testing scores right?", I thought education was primary. Hand writing isn't something I do well either. Like my daughter I hold my pencils oddly and can't write well. Cerelle is right.. :) ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Anyone tried the 2 months on and 1 month off schedule to AVOID burnout?... AUTHOR: Julie in NM DATE: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 4:25 p.m. Response To: Anyone tried the 2 months on and 1 month off schedule to AVOID burnout?... Author: Dawne Date: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 12:24 p.m. My son was in year-round schooling when he went to ps. The major objections to that type of schedule were from families who had child-care problems--there were NO academic objections that I ever heard. The teachers loved it because going right from grade A to grade B meant they didn't have to review and remind the kids of what they'd done the prior spring, and there's not as much loss of material over a one month period. It always seemed to me that one month's time was great--enough to relax, but not too much so that the kids forgot what it was like to do school work. When we first started homeschooling, we continued on that way because it makes much more sense. (Unlike my son's "track") we took December off--you're right, it's the **GREATEST**! After a while, however, it seemed to me that we got too tired doing school work for 2 full months at a time, so I took a good look at the calendar and realized that (as you've pointed out) some months lend themselves to indoor work, some to outdoor fun. I divided up the year, taking our major holiday (6 weeks) from the middle of August to the end of September or beginning of Oct. This is when we do all of our harvesting and canning/drying, so it made sense to take the time then. It's WAY too busy to worry about getting schoolwork done, too. It's also (usually--can't speak for THIS year!) the last time we can schedule field trips without having to worry about cancelling due to snow. The rest of the year--aside from the month of December, which we take off--we molded into groups of 5 or 6 weeks, with 1 or 3 weeks off in between each group, depending upon what's going on at that time. My kids have had no trouble adjusting to whatever I've laid before them in the way of scheduling. Many times, we've made a calendar showing on or off dates, just to make sure there's no confusion, and they've had fun crossing days off 'til vacation, etc. It sounds to me like you've definitely got a good idea going. Hmmm...just reading about Christmas makes me think it may be time to get going on my planning. We're moving around Christmas time...so it's a good excuse to start in mid-November, don't you think? > I understand that some districts > [one part of CA for example] set up > public school to school 2 months and > then be off for one month. They continue > this way year round. My friend who teaches > in a district with this schedule LOVES > it. > I've been thinking about the advantages > a schedule like this could offer a hs > family. I'd love to just take Dec. off. > Spend the time making gifts [we rarely > buy for the relatives] and decorations. > Reading great stories holiday related > or not. Using math in the kitchen for > pies and cookies. Playing in the snow > if we get any. Now Jan. and Feb. around > here are just plain nasty! Cold, wet > and icy. Perfect time, IMO, to get some > work done [projects, research and bookwork]. > We rarely want to go out and do so only > for food or boy scouts [2 times a month > is not bad]. EVERYthing else just waits > till March. And what of summer? I don't > want to spend May inside! Around here > May is warm but not too hot. And Aug. > I"ll give you August b/c its so > muggy and hot and prime hayfever season. > I'd rather have September which is usually > very nice. Who wants to be missing those > early fall days? > What do you guys think? Homeschooling > is about flexibility but I worry about > not doing a lesson of Saxon Math everyday. > [btw, it takes very little time for > us] > Dawne ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Anyone tried the 2 months on and 1 month off schedule to AVOID burnout?... AUTHOR: Jannarama DATE: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 5:46 p.m. Response To: Re: Anyone tried the 2 months on and 1 month off schedule to AVOID burnout?... Author: Giovanna Date: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 1:31 p.m. Since we're getting ready to move in mid December (military move--we are going to AZ from TX and in January hubby will be going to Korea for a year by himself while my 2 girls and me stay in Az in the same town as my IL's), anyway, I thought about taking off the whole month, because of the move, but I think we're just going to keep schooling until around the 11th. Then we'll take the rest of the month off and start back up in mid January after we're all unpacked. During the summer we did 'homeschooling lite' as I called it. They did math, spelling and reading only. We cut out all the other stuff--history, science, computer, etc. We were reading some of the Little House books during the summer, but just reading, not doing any activities (like we are now--with the Prairie Primer). I think taking a week or 2 off for us keeps us from burning out. c-ya, Jannarama ======================================== MESSAGE: Support for those who Work and Homeschool AUTHOR: Dawne DATE: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 8:32 p.m. Heard about this and thought some could benefit from it: WORKandHOMESCHOOL@onelist.com. >>Work and homeschool: It can be done!! This is a support group for working parents who have chosen to homeschool their children or are considering homeschooling, as well as for homeschooling parents who are thinking of returning to work. Whether you are working or thinking of working inside or outside your home, this list is for you. Please join us as we discuss our unique challenges and concerns. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Anyone tried the 2 months on and 1 month off schedule to AVOID burnout?... AUTHOR: Debbie G. DATE: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 9:36 p.m. Response To: Anyone tried the 2 months on and 1 month off schedule to AVOID burnout?... Author: Dawne Date: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 12:24 p.m. We do school year round and it is wonderful. It seems as if the breaks come just when we need them. If we take off more than a month at a time it is so hard to get back to it. It is not only the review work that must be done, but just getting back into the routine of doing school. We schedule our breaks on what our family is doing not a set yearly schedule. My niece had lived with us and was graduating from high school in June with lots of family in and out -- that was a month off for us. We took an off-season vacation - so that was a good week off. Anytime family comes to visit is off. I will be schooling most of December because of family visits at Thanksgiving. We take it as it comes and I track how many days I am schooling by checking off my school days on a calendar in my book. We simply move up to the next step in the curriculum when she finishes one -- whether that coincides with a "school break" or not. For instance, we should be finishing our K curriculum by January -- not necessarily a new school year (whatever that is). Life just seems to move along.> I understand that some districts > [one part of CA for example] set up > public school to school 2 months and > then be off for one month. They continue > this way year round. My friend who teaches > in a district with this schedule LOVES > it. > I've been thinking about the advantages > a schedule like this could offer a hs > family. I'd love to just take Dec. off. > Spend the time making gifts [we rarely > buy for the relatives] and decorations. > Reading great stories holiday related > or not. Using math in the kitchen for > pies and cookies. Playing in the snow > if we get any. Now Jan. and Feb. around > here are just plain nasty! Cold, wet > and icy. Perfect time, IMO, to get some > work done [projects, research and bookwork]. > We rarely want to go out and do so only > for food or boy scouts [2 times a month > is not bad]. EVERYthing else just waits > till March. And what of summer? I don't > want to spend May inside! Around here > May is warm but not too hot. And Aug. > I"ll give you August b/c its so > muggy and hot and prime hayfever season. > I'd rather have September which is usually > very nice. Who wants to be missing those > early fall days? > What do you guys think? Homeschooling > is about flexibility but I worry about > not doing a lesson of Saxon Math everyday. > [btw, it takes very little time for > us] > Dawne ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Motivation.....for ME ? AUTHOR: Donna (twyn) in PA DATE: Saturday, 13 November 1999, at 8:29 a.m. Response To: Motivation.....for ME ? Author: Lee Date: Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 8:14 a.m. I felt this way last year, when we were still doing what I would call "School at Home". I was in charge of everything; schedules, finding the materials for Unit Studies, getting the kids out of bed and ready to learn, plus I was still marking/grading most of their papers too. On top of that I had "extras" like support group meetings, book club, and the science fair to get ready for. It was overwhelming and at times I felt like I was the only one holding everything together. As soon as we hit any bump in the road (anything from my having a cold to a neighbor who was hospitalized and needed me to watch her kids) all our carefully scheduled plans were shot and we had a rough time getting back on track. This year I have relaxed our schedule and am letting the kids take more responsibility for their own learning. We have a weekly list of what needs to be completed, instead of an hour-by-hour daily one. I still grade Math tests, but most of the other work I allow them to check, if they get to the point where they're confused or stuck they'll give me a holler. I talk to them about what they're doing each day and keep an eye on their progress, but grades and "busy-work" have been cut way down. We do oral testing for Social Studies and Science, and I don't worry as much about spelling or grammar mistakes in their creative writing (I'll show them, but not mark the paper). The kids proof-read each other's stories (something they decided to do on their own)and they also work together more than they used to, sharing the tougher or more boring chores (typing up study sheets, cleaning up the supply shelves). Now--this idea won't work if all of your children are too young to check their own work, but if you have older ones, they can help the younger ones and free up some time for you. You might also drop some outside activities if that's a posibility, or lighten up your daily schedule. And when it really gets bad--a week off won't hurt anyone--taking time to relax and regroup is a fine idea. Schedule a field trip if you'd like--take long walks--or just have everyone help you clean the house for an hour each day and then rent some good movies to watch together or read books. Hope this helps a bit {{{HUGS}}} Enjoy- Donna (twyn) in PA) ======================================== MESSAGE: Josh Rappaport's ALGEBRA TIMES (totally free & really, really good!) AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Saturday, 13 November 1999, at 9:06 a.m. Response To: suggestions for math burnout? Author: Jannarama Date: Monday, 1 November 1999, at 4:53 p.m. I've been meaning to get back down here to post info about Josh Rappaport's ALGEBRA TIMES, which is a free newsletter that comes to us by e-mail every month. It is wonderful. Josh Rappaport is practically my HERO! His articles, contests, and challenges are directed toward parents who are working with their children toward a better understanding of and appreciation for algebra -- perfect for homeschoolers like us. The other thing I really love about Josh is that he hates most math textbooks (so do I). Cerelle --------------------------- To subscribe to ALGEBRA TIMES, send email to news@mathkits.com and write the word: subscribe on the Subject line in your email's header. (Note: Do not write "subscribe" in the body of your letter - only in the header. And don't write "Re:" before writing "subscribe") --------------------------- ======================================== MESSAGE: Holding Pencil Oddly??. AUTHOR: Kim DATE: Saturday, 13 November 1999, at 7:03 p.m. Response To: Re: I agree too Cerelle is right. Author: Marianne Date: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 4:11 p.m. How interesting you say your daughter and you hold your pencils oddly and can't "write" well. My son has held his pencil odd since kindergarten, despite attempts to correct it my the teacher and myself. ( we gave up in second grade and told him whatever way he writes is fine with us). I never thought that that might make it more difficult to write in cursive??? Your statement made me THINK - thanks for the insight. I think cursive is OUT for us. My DS loves to use the computer, so I guess the conclusion of all this is: His writing will be done on the computer! > ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Yes I have the VERY SAME PROBLEM AUTHOR: Kim DATE: Saturday, 13 November 1999, at 7:09 p.m. Response To: Yes I have the VERY SAME PROBLEM Author: madria Date: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 6:52 a.m. I agree, all my DS writing will be done on the computer. He is very comfortable with the computer and doesn't mind doing it there. Saves on the frustration of erasing and rewriting too! Someone above mentioned that both she and her daughter have the same problem with cursive, but also hold their pencils oddly, this is also a problem for my son. Maybe it's a reason for their dislike of cursive. Interesting possibility. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Kim, about Holding Pencil Oddly??. AUTHOR: Marianne DATE: Saturday, 13 November 1999, at 8:04 p.m. Response To: Holding Pencil Oddly??. Author: Kim Date: Saturday, 13 November 1999, at 7:03 p.m. > My daughter and I both hold the pencil/pen on the third ring finger and tend to bend our wrist in an odd position. I had tearful times and so did my daughter when the teachers tried to make us write the "right way". My sister has two children that have this same difficulty. No one could ever identify the exact cause of this problem, but it really isn't a problem. In fact all of us seem to adjust to typing faster and more efficiently than most. I love to type. The other way my hand gets tired,sore, and my words are illegible. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Motivation.....for ME ? AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Saturday, 13 November 1999, at 9:08 p.m. Response To: Motivation.....for ME ? Author: Lee Date: Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 8:14 a.m. > Some of my kids are more motivated > than I am lately. I find it hard to > get up the gumption to check their work > from day to day. Seems like so many > activities and situations are taking > us away from a routine, it feels pointless > to try. Wish I knew how to find order > in the middle of chaos. Are you tired? Worn out? You've received some good advice already but I'm going to bring up something about lack of motivation which is very much overlooked. The reason you may not feel very motivated (aside from the fact that not having a routine and running here and there all the time can be exhausting) is that your body may not be as healthy as it should be. Your body could be very tired and needing some exercise and a boost of vitamins. I know, I know. What a strange thing to say! But hear me out! Back about 2 years ago I began taking blue green algae and some other vitamins. I tell you, it was as if someone took me out of a fog! I felt wonderful! All of the sudden I had ENERGY---not just physical energy but also tons of "mental" energy. My body started to function with less sleep (and function much better I may add), it started to absorb food better, I felt a lot more perked up and it did WONDERS for my attitude!!! So what am I saying here? Lack of "motivation" (and in some cases the mild depression some of us might be feeling) could actually be a sign of an unhealthy body. If I sound crazy, please forgive me. But I really think I am on to something here. Ladies, we need to take care of ourselves. Don't have time to go work out? Get yourself a video tape of whoever and do some aerobics at home. Get yourself MOVING! Then go to the nearest health food store and get yourself some blue-green algae (excellent stuff) and other natural vitamin supplements. (Stay away from the multivitamin..."one a day" type stuff). I'm telling you... it's going to make a world of difference for you! Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Lots of guilt! AUTHOR: Lisa DATE: Sunday, 14 November 1999, at 9:04 a.m. Response To: Please, everyone read Peg's post! Right on! (Or do I mean "Write on"?) Author: Cerelle Date: Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 11:13 p.m. > The only thing I have to add is > that most children who hate to write > have learned the hard way that they > rarely (or never) have ownership of > their own writing. Adults assign it, > insist on it, pick at it, scrutinize > it, correct it, get angry about it, > and ultimately reject it. Rarely is > a child truly allowed to OWN a piece > of writing unless s/he manages to keep > it totally secret, away from the prying > eyes of well-meaning teachers and parents. Boy, do I feel really guilty, now. My ds has terrible handwriting. He has so many wonderful ideas but you can't read any of them! I ended up throwing away many of his ps 2nd grade stories because I was too embarrassed to put them in a scrapbook. They were impossible to figure out because the spelling and handwriting made them unreadable. I was really frustrated with the ps for this reason and felt that they weren't doing their job by teaching him more handwriting and spelling. I am currently reading a book called "How Your Child Is Smart" and have discovered that my ds is a KAV (a kinestethic learner first.) One characteristic of kinestethic learners is their difficulty with handwriting. I am beginning to respect his unique approach to learning. > THIS IS A CRYING SHAME. Yes, it is. Thank you for enlightening me. I certainly don't want to push him further away from expressing his intelligent thoughts on paper nor do I want him to feel that he can never OWN his own writing. > "This writing does not belong to > YOU," I tell the parents. "What > this means is that you do not have the > right to praise or criticize it. You > do not have the right to suggest changes > to it. You do not have the right to > insist that it be saved or destroyed. > All of these choices belong to the person > who produced the writing." Thank you once again! I will never throw away another piece of his writing again! I feel that I have been so disrespectful of his rights - I know how violated I would feel if someone did the same thing to me. > This can be a very, very tough > lesson for the parent, and yet it is > an incredibly important one to learn. I am beginning to see the light and I'm learning, too. Thanks Cerelle! ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Motivation.....for ME ? AUTHOR: Lee DATE: Monday, 15 November 1999, at 8:01 a.m. Response To: Re: Motivation.....for ME ? Author: Giovanna Date: Saturday, 13 November 1999, at 9:08 p.m. Well, now I have been thinking of that very thing. I will check out that blue green algae. Thamks. ======================================== MESSAGE: Go easy on yourself! AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 15 November 1999, at 10:57 a.m. Response To: Lots of guilt! Author: Lisa Date: Sunday, 14 November 1999, at 9:04 a.m. Please don't beat yourself up, Lisa! I could be absolutely paralyzed with guilt if I wanted to go in that direction, believe me! I've done SO many things I regret, but you know what? Most of the time, I was doing what I thought was the right thing to do, even though some of those things seem outrageous to me NOW. I believe it is sometimes very hard for us parents to see outside our own experience. If no one ever respected our own feelings, writings, interests, and so on, when we were young students -- well, it just might not ever occur to us that this is something we can give our children. I've been guilty of these oversights so many times... Eda LeShan said something really wonderful in a book she wrote called _The Conspiracy Against Childhood_. She said that everytime she went against her own experience by respecting her child's feelings and choosing not to be angry, she gave herself back some of the respect that had been denied to her in her own childhood. I really love that idea. I think it helps protect me from burnout, too. Respect -- for myself and my children -- is such a soothing and healing balm! Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Healthy Bodies AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Monday, 15 November 1999, at 11:14 a.m. Response To: Re: Motivation.....for ME ? Author: Lee Date: Monday, 15 November 1999, at 8:01 a.m. > Well, now I have been thinking > of that very thing. I will check out > that blue green algae. Thanks. Go to your nearest health food store and check those out. It comes in powder that you can mix with juice (gross!) or in capsule form which I much prefer. Take about 4 a day. The effects of it will not be noticed right away. It tends to build up so give it about a few weeks. I'm telling you... we can talk all about schedules and routine and change and all of that but I don't know if any of us have really given serious thought about the fact that our "depression" could come from a nutritional/health problem. We need to take care of ourselves! Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Take one small step AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 15 November 1999, at 11:28 a.m. Response To: Healthy Bodies Author: Giovanna Date: Monday, 15 November 1999, at 11:14 a.m. Boy, Giovanna, you said it! If you're all run down and feeling physically unhealthy, it's really easy to get STUCK. And what's more discouraging than knowing we're continuing to make unhealthy choices every day (eating junky food, not getting enough exercise, whatever) but lacking the energy and resolve to do anything about it?! My advice -- when making the big changes you KNOW you need to make sounds wayyyyy too overwhelming -- is to find one small thing you think you could manage to do. Just one, small, easy thing. It might be something as simple as following Giovanna's recommendation and adding a nutrition supplement like blue-green algae to your daily routine. In my experience, doing SOMETHING is the secret to climbing out of that hole, because one success inevitably leads to others. Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Thanks, guys!...nt AUTHOR: annie DATE: Monday, 15 November 1999, at 2:22 p.m. Response To: Great Post annie... Author: Tracey Date: Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 7:46 a.m. : ; ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Ducking the pencil.. AUTHOR: annie DATE: Monday, 15 November 1999, at 2:30 p.m. Response To: BAD DAY!!!!! Author: Kim Date: Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 12:20 p.m. I got mine to get a little more interested when he found out he could sign a check in cursive (not just a bribe), and he insisted on writing his letter to Santa in cursive this year, (He wants a piano!) We have a program that utilizes a Basic Cursive Handwriting Font, and I set up practice sheets with sentences about him and his interests... He's alot more enthusiastic in writng about LEGO than about ancient Egypt, but it is working. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: I'll order two dozen brownies!...LOL AUTHOR: annie DATE: Monday, 15 November 1999, at 2:38 p.m. Response To: Teens and Lack of Motivation (long) Author: Donna (twyn) in PA Date: Tuesday, 9 November 1999, at 9:25 a.m. Maybe they could turn their on-line and cooking interests into a goodie business? ... sounds like a tasty unit study, even if it ends up only for "pretend"... The technique of brainstorming is based on 'there is no bad idea' ... have them work with you , or just the two of them, or even individually, to make a list of twenty (or more) things they would like to do now or later in life,... don't dis-allow anything, and avoid the urge to judge ... then, using this list, see if they don't find something interesting to work on... ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: and a P.S. ... AUTHOR: annie DATE: Monday, 15 November 1999, at 2:59 p.m. Response To: Re: I'll order two dozen brownies!...LOL Author: annie Date: Monday, 15 November 1999, at 2:38 p.m. ...tell them to include even their wild fantasies... ...then, using this list, make a trip to the local library and load up on anything remotely pertinent - how to books, videos, fiction, biographies of those who are/have been the doers of whatever it is that sparks their interests... don't require book reports or the like, just let them absorb the info, and encourage their efforts, even the small ones, to pursue them. See if they don't find something interesting to work on. On-line and Baking combo unit study idea - recipe choice and refinement, price comparison of necessary ingedients, practicality of double or triple batches, survey of possible market, packaging, postal costs, web-page set up, advertising techniques (writing and artisitic), and, of course, taste testing. (I'll vounteer for that last one!) ======================================== MESSAGE: URL for more info AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 15 November 1999, at 3:07 p.m. I should have done this in the first place (sorry!). Here's the web page on which Josh tells all about the newsletter and offers sample issues: http://www.mathkits.com/nuzltrs/index.html These are some of the things in November's issue (I'm quoting directly from the beginning of the newsletter): ------------------------------ -- a discussion of confusion in algebra, and ways to attack it at the roots, -- an activity that gives children a kinesthetic and visual way of grasping the concept of multiplying exponential terms together. -- a little trick that helps you multiply big numbers together, -- a Problem of the Month concerning a speeding ticket. -------------------------------- > And, do you ever get concerned > about privacy - giving your e-mail address > out to organizations or unknown individuals > over the net? I guess I never worry too much about that sort of thing. I don't give my name out indiscriminately, of course, and so far I've had no problems. I learned about this newsletter from another homeschooling e-mail list I'm on, and one of the mothers had actually contacted Josh Rappaport to ask him questions about her own children and math -- and he had been really nice and helpful through e-mail. So I felt good about subscribing to the newsletter. (This is an e-mail newsletter, by the way, not a snail-mail one.) Josh Rappaport also sells a product called "Algebra Survival Kit," and he has a web page about that, too. I thought at first that he probably published the free newsletter just to push the kit, but he rarely even mentions it in the newsletter. For more about the kit: http://www.mathkits.com/askinfo.html Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: math games AUTHOR: kristen DATE: Monday, 15 November 1999, at 7:29 p.m. about this time of year we get really burnt out on math workbooks...can anyone share their favorite math games with us? ======================================== MESSAGE: Add up to 10 AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Monday, 15 November 1999, at 7:44 p.m. Response To: math games Author: kristen Date: Monday, 15 November 1999, at 7:29 p.m. This one's great for the little guys. Take all but one 10 and all of face cards out of 2 decks of cards. Now shuffle and deal as for Old Maid, but the idea is to match pairs of numbers that add up to 10. A 6 requires a 4 to make a pair; a 2 requires an 8, etc. The single 10 in the deck is the "Old Maid." This simple little game sharpens more skills than you'd suspect. While we're on the subject, Peggy Kaye's _Games for Math_ is a wonderful resource. I couldn't have lasted through the early years of homeschooling without that one on my shelf! Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: math games AUTHOR: Laura in SC DATE: Tuesday, 16 November 1999, at 8:57 a.m. Response To: math games Author: kristen Date: Monday, 15 November 1999, at 7:29 p.m. There"S a nice little card game called "Math War" that I picked up at WalMart for about $3. It was in with the educational workbooks, flashcards, etc. It's great for drilling math facts without the kids knowing it. We also like to use dominoes. A set of double-nines dominoes includes one of every combination from 0-0 thru 9-9. You can play "regular" dominoes, adding the requirement that the player give the sum or product of the two sets of blips before they play the domino. Or you could play "war" with them. I also like to play a solitaire game called "10-20-30". Shuffle a regular deck of cards. Deal them out in a straight line, one at a time. Use three cards from the ends to add up to 10, 20 or 30. Aces count for one, face cards as 10. You can use three from one end or the other, or two from one end and one from the other. But you have to use the end cards --- you can't skip in any. When you get a 10, 20 or 30, you pick up those cards and set them aside. Don't forget to check the "new" end cards for combinations now. You win if you get the line of cards down to a single 10. It's challenging, but it can be done. HTH, Laura ======================================== MESSAGE: Our "solution" AUTHOR: Barbara DATE: Tuesday, 16 November 1999, at 9:10 a.m. Response To: Anyone tried the 2 months on and 1 month off schedule to AVOID burnout?... Author: Dawne Date: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 12:24 p.m. Dear Dawne, We've been homeschooling for four years (goodness, how time flies!). The first two years we mirrored the standard school year and it became obvious that that schedule simply didn't work for us. My dh is a physician assistant and works odd shifts in a hospital setting as well as part-time for a private practitioner. As a result, his schedule is definitely NOT 9-5 M-F. Last year we decided to make some changes and switched to a 6 week on-2 week off schedule with 6 weeks off from mid-June to early August. My ds (now 15) was sceptical at first but now, he loves it (especially when he tired and frustrated with math and realizes that a break is coming up!). It has worked well for us and I think it is good "real world" training because, later in life, few of us have the luxury of taking the whole summer off, however, many of us do have the opportunity to take long weekends or mini-vacations from our duties. Go for it -- if it doesn't work for you, you can always try an alternative. Barbara ======================================== MESSAGE: I have a 7yob too. AUTHOR: Dawne DATE: Tuesday, 16 November 1999, at 10:42 a.m. Response To: Just one! Author: Mrs. K Date: Wednesday, 10 November 1999, at 9:24 a.m. He is not a good reader yet (but getting there) > so he is not up to flying solo with his book work. Same here. I have a few things that can be done independently but not too many. Because my time with him is more important, the house suffers. It is. Congratulate yourself that your priorities are on straight :0) We do daily chores, but they seem to repeat daily and the big cleans don't get done (bathrooms, dusting, moping etc). Yep! Know the feeling well. And he is old enough to learn but yooung enough to do a bad job when he really tried to help do something. 3/4 of the time I have to go a do > it any way. We do take about one day a month > and just do the house work, but I hate that. One day a month would be hard on anyone :-( We generally have weird weekends, so the house is a bigger mess on Mon. than it was on Fri. I agree with the other poster who said make Monday your house day. We started making Friday our house day a few weeks ago and I thought I was the only one [rebel, I am - I know :) BUT after talking with a few moms I find it quite common. One even told me after a few weeks you can cut your house day down to every 2 weeks. We're still on the week to week program. But with music and some giggles we can be done by lunch and have the afternoon off :0) > Any suggestions on how do you keep a neat (does not have to be spotless) house? and How to teach a 7yob to do house work well? I read something on a Onelist about special skills instruction or something. You basically do the chore in front of him then next time he does it in front of you and the next time you pop in every few min. When one chore is completely mastered you move on. BTW, I don't worry about a "neat house". Its an impossibility at this point and I've given up the ghost. Instead I make sure the common areas are clean [even if the toys are out sometimes] and the kitchen and bathroom. My bedroom can be done on the weekend while hubby does laundry, but M-F I hope to have a house that if pop in company arrives I don't get 15 grey hairs from the stress :-) Good luck, Dawne > Thanks ======================================== MESSAGE: yes! AUTHOR: Kristen AKA curlywhirly DATE: Tuesday, 16 November 1999, at 11:39 a.m. Response To: math games Author: kristen Date: Monday, 15 November 1999, at 7:29 p.m. I am too lazy to make up games myself, but my boys have LOVED Yahtzee, Payday, Monopoly, Life etc. I got to count it as school and they never knew it! It is not a math game, but Scrabble has also been the mainstay of our spelling/vocabulary practice for quite a while now too. ~~(*-*)~~ ======================================== MESSAGE: yes, unfortunately AUTHOR: Dawne DATE: Tuesday, 16 November 1999, at 4:40 p.m. Response To: Re: Only kids, only families, only moms Author: Peg Date: Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 10:48 a.m. > Yes, thank goodness for the Internet. This is a great support group with the most knowledgable & considerate participants I've found. > Where I live the hs support groups seem to be exclusive groups based on different religious denominations or teaching methods. Some are blatant about it and require participants to sign > contracts. Others are more subtle about > keeping themselves segregated. > Is it like that in your area? > Yes, very much so. I'm lucky to belong to the only INclusive group in my area. I believe it was started by 5 or 6 moms. Now we have about 100 families. Religious groups have some advantages. They usually have state wide or national support. Its also VERY easy to find places for activities b/c they have so many churches they can ask to use the youth rooms, for example. Some have Statement of Faiths to sign and others are MUCH more subtle and really do "keep to their own kind". More than one mom has turned her nose up because I don't meet her standards as far as religious beliefs. My friend to avoid all this UNnec. stress just started her own group. Maybe that would work for you? dawne ======================================== MESSAGE: Paperwork Burnout AUTHOR: Kristen AKA curlywhirly DATE: Tuesday, 16 November 1999, at 5:03 p.m. I homeschool through the county ISP, and am required to turn in lesson plans and work samples etc and have monthly conferences. I have to use some sort of ISP to make the kids bio -dad more comfortable. I am making plans to possibly use a different ISP for next year, but I am looking for ways to avoid the burnout I feel creeping up on me. How do you keep your records straight? ~~(*-*)~~ ======================================== MESSAGE: Scrabble... AUTHOR: Melanie DATE: Tuesday, 16 November 1999, at 9:11 p.m. Response To: yes! Author: Kristen AKA curlywhirly Date: Tuesday, 16 November 1999, at 11:39 a.m. is also good for math Kristen, just let them keep score :-) ======================================== MESSAGE: oh yeah....... lol@me nt AUTHOR: Kristen AKA curlywhirly DATE: Wednesday, 17 November 1999, at 12:55 a.m. Response To: Scrabble... Author: Melanie Date: Tuesday, 16 November 1999, at 9:11 p.m. > is also good for math Kristen, > just let them keep score :-) > ======================================== MESSAGE: different kind of burnout? **very, very long! AUTHOR: Deanne V. DATE: Wednesday, 17 November 1999, at 7:13 a.m. I wonder if anyone else has experienced a different kind of burnout? We've homeschooled for several years (since 2nd grade for my daughter and my son has never been to school--they are now 13 and 10). We started out semi-structured, but took lots of time off to go places and do things. That worked when the kids were little. However, as they got older, they weren't interested in joining in every little thing and grew to *hate* having to go anywhere. They wanted to stay home and play. We began doing less, and as we "evolved" in our HSing, we became more and more "relaxed" in what we were doing for academics, too. However, what I noticed is that the more "relaxed" we became (the less "school-like stuff" we did), the less the kids did--completely! They grew less and less interested in the things they'd always loved--playing music, building, working on their individual projects, etc. It seems to me that too much time on their hands created just empty days of "nothingness." I found we were all getting depressed. I really worried about my daughter, especially, just sitting around all the time. She doesn't really have any close friends, though she takes karate twice a week. That was the only thing she cared about. She used to love to work on puzzles of all kinds--logic puzzles, jigsaw puzzles, 3-d puzzles, etc., but she even stopped this pasttime. She loved to write stories, but became dissatisfied with it and stopped that eventually. She didn't like anything she wrote. She's always been an avid reader ever since she learned to read, and she even began reading less. I have just found that my kids (and me) need stimulation. That can come from some structure, books, or even TV shows--or seeing a play or going to a lecture or a museum--whatever... They need to be taken "away" from their interests at times, too, along with being led to pursue them. However, living here, there isn't much outside stimulation. We really have to create our own. Over the last 2 - 3 years (not all spent in Alaska--we were in North Carolina, then Massachusetts, and have only been here a little more than a year), my daughter has wanted to be abducted by aliens, live in the rainforest (as a "wild" person, not to work or study anything), go into space (preferably to Mars), live in the wilderness, live in the caves of Tennessee, and now go back in time (she's convinced that she was born into the "wrong" time period). And has any of this led to learning? Not really. She's not really interested in learning *real* stuff about the rainforest or caves or space or even about history. No, she is bored with her life and thinks that all life will be just as boring and so she is looking for an "escape." She's read a few books about the rainforest, about space and things like that, but she says that "ruins" things for her because then she can't imagine her *own* things as well. I appreciate her imagination and I see her uniqueness and her unusual view of the world as one of her greatest gifts. This "feeling" and attitude (the apathetic lethargy :-) ) crept in as I was reading more and leaning more and more towards unschooling--or not exactly, but sort of. LOL Part of it was the age--when that "magic" sort of wears off and there's no Santa and she also began realizing that things had explanations that weren't necessarily "magical" any more, so some of that sense of wonder wore off then. BUT...I think more of it wore off *because* I left her with too much time on her hands doing nothing. I hoped that this would get the kids to reach inside themselves and find *something,* but it hasn't really worked that way for us--not with either of my children, actually. Even with my son who has a lot of VERY strong interests and things that he gets passionate about, becomes more apathetic when he just has endless hours to pursue his interests. When there's no structure to the day, no routine, no nothing--life seems like endless "nothing." My kids, who had always been like best friends, began fighting and became more jealous of each other over silly things. They just began picking at each other more and more over nothing. (The "He's breathing too loud" syndrome.) So on top of "nothing" we began having more and more terrible bickering, too. Some days it was so bad I'd go to MY room and cry! Sure *sometimes* the kids did stuff on their own, but those little spurts of "something" every once in a while can't eradicate all the "nothing" in between--especially when the "nothing" is BAD. And we did have a little structure--we read together every morning, each of us taking turns, reading from a book of our choice. This was our favorite part of our day. The only thing that my daughter got excited about was going on an archaeological dig for one day last spring. Such opportunities are few and far between for us, though. We are a military family that moves around a lot (twice in two years!) and we are all mostly introverted and I am downright shy. We live on an island in Alaska. The homeschool group here is Christian, and we are not really... :-) I have tried to make "contacts" but I'm not good at this at all. We don't really know any other HSing families here, though we know of some. Mostly all we were doing for a long time was reading together--and the kids did some math and we sometimes did a little of this or that. :-) But after that...my daughter would just sit in the chair in the living room. She began to get WAY too introspective... This was not a good situation... (There is more, but I think my daughter would not appreciate my posting it on a public BBS. :-) ) Even my son, who has always been extremely motivated with his own projects stopped doing most of the things he enjoyed... I think we really needed some structure and stimulation. Luckily for us, some came our way and I am creating the rest! :-) For one, we got new neighbors with kids just my kids ages--and these kids are NICE. My kids still don't hang around lots with the other kids, but at least they are not so isolated as when we first moved here. (This is partly because we made a conscious effort to be more outgoing. For example, when the neighbors moved in, my daughter and I baked them cookies. Bringing the cookies over to their house was one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life, but now we have some really great friends!) We also had the opportunity to go back east for five weeks--which we did, even though it meant the kids missing karate class during that time. We visited family and also got together with some special online homeschool friends, and we did "touristy" things, too. We can thank my wonderful MIL for that trip! :-) And...I've decided to "do school" now, sort of. We've always had short bursts of energy where we got a bit more structured, but most of the time we've concentrated on math and maybe a little bit of something else--whatever seemed the most "needful" area. We have always read a lot together. BUT...I remember when I used to do more with the kids--more projects, but also plan out unit studies and just DO stuff--the kids were more productive on their own, too! They were highly motivated to use their time for exploring their own interests. But I found the less I did with them, the less they did on their own. And I noticed right away when I began planning "school stuff" for the kids again now that my kids have become motivated again. My daughter is practicing music again and even has a goal to play Chistmas carols on Christmas Eve (just for us, I think!). She isn't writing again (she's decided to wait until she's 15), but she is writing the things I ask her to--mostly short narrations of books she's reading. She's not thrilled with the things I'm asking her to do, but she is interested in almost all of it and excited about some of it. My son is building things and designing models again with his various building sets. He's also building new plastic models. He actually enjoys dictating to me short "blurbs" about the things he's doing and making a notebook with pictures and these short writings, as long as he doesn't have to write it all out by hand. He is animated and interested when he tells me about the things he's reading. I've decided that that's enough for us for now. Doing *something* has got to be better than doing nothing all the time, right? Or am I crazy? :-) I just think this goes contrary to what I've always read and thought about learning and motivation, but I have found that when *I* occupy more of the kids' time, their productivity and motivation in all other areas of their lives seems to go up. And the less I "make" them do, the less they do on their own. Well, I could go on and on--and I guess I have. I am nervous about posting this here, and I don't even know why I am posting it here. Maybe someone else is experiencing something similar? Or maybe we are the only ones? I'm afraid you'll all think I'm a terrible mother or that we're a crazy family of depressed lunatics or something. :-) BUT...my kids are generally happier now. Things are not perfect. They complain, but they are fighting less and not depressed or lethargic any more. My daughter is still very strong-willed, and my son whines, and they fight over who the cat likes best... :-) We do make an effort to *do* stuff--whatever is available, like going to a local theater production or something like that. But there's not much here. :-) Last year we even went to the high school plays and went to see the local dance school's production of the Nutcracker. We never could afford to travel around and do all the really cool things I wished we could do, anyway, so living here maybe doesn't make that much difference, and we do have some unique opportunities here that we wouldn't have anywhere else. :-) There is just not much here for everyday stuff--volunteer work, museums, etc. Deanne ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: yes, unfortunately AUTHOR: Peg DATE: Wednesday, 17 November 1999, at 8:19 a.m. Response To: yes, unfortunately Author: Dawne Date: Tuesday, 16 November 1999, at 4:40 p.m. You must live near or in a more urban area. Cerelle said her expeience while living in rural area was that there are just not enough hs families to support a variety of groups. I don't have a hangup about rubbing shoulders with other religious denominations, as a matter of fact, I think it important that my dd learn that there are big differences in religious/philosophical beliefs, *but*......well you've also experienced the elitist snobbery that occurs in the name of religion. I don't want my kid to grow up believing religion is a matter of "us against them" We already have problems with hs vs public school issues. > Some have Statement of Faiths to > sign and others are MUCH more subtle > and really do "keep to their own > kind". More than one mom has turned > her nose up because I don't meet her > standards as far as religious beliefs. > My friend to avoid all this UNnec. > stress just started her own group. Maybe > that would work for you? dawne I'm working on that mostly by just relaxing and trying to participate in the informal activities that occur within my circle of accquaintances. I'm finding that there are so very many fun/educ secular & religious activities within my region that most of the families just pick & choose among those without feeling a need for a more formal hs only group. Thank you for your encouragement. Peg ======================================== MESSAGE: S.A.D. Seasonal Attention Deficit AUTHOR: Peg DATE: Wednesday, 17 November 1999, at 8:59 a.m. Response To: different kind of burnout? **very, very long! Author: Deanne V. Date: Wednesday, 17 November 1999, at 7:13 a.m. > But > after that...my daughter would just > sit in the chair in the living room. > She began to get WAY too introspective... > Imagine if you will, a young couple living their dream of buying a sailboat to cruise around the world. They're both employed, living on the boat, making payments & learning the lifestyle. Then the dh starts doing exactly what your daughter has been doing. Brooding...moping...nothing. It happened to us south of Seattle on Puget Sound. We're originally from the midwest and we think S.A.D. caused us to do a variety of strange things that led to my dh joining the U.S. Navy and abandoning our boat dream. The weather was so depressing that we lost all initiative and had to do something extreme to get straightened out. (I am thankful that this happened long before our daughter joined us) I don't know if S.A.D is the problem at your house, but it is something to consider. > Over the last 2 - 3 years (not > all spent in Alaska--we were in North > Carolina, then Massachusetts, and have > only been here a little more than a > year), my daughter has wanted to be > abducted by aliens, live in the rainforest > (as a "wild" person, not to > work or study anything), go into space > (preferably to Mars), live in the wilderness, > live in the caves of Tennessee, and > now go back in time (she's convinced > that she was born into the "wrong" > time period). At least she's thinking about something & not living inside some tv drama. Do you think that this episode has been triggered by the beginning of puberty? Your daughters fantasies remind me an awful lot of mine when I was that age. > outgoing. For example, when the neighbors > moved in, my daughter and I baked them > cookies. Bringing the cookies over to > their house was one of the hardest things > I've ever done in my life, but now we > have some really great friends!) Good for you! I, too, find it hard to do stuff like this. > have anywhere else. :-) There is just > not much here for everyday stuff--volunteer > work, museums, etc. Seems like I remember reading about quite a bit of archaeological/anthropological studies being done on the islands along the coast of Alaska. I know there are wildlife & fisheries biologists and botanists working that region. If you're going to be there awhile you might try a bigger project. Our family project this year is a 20 ft long, 3 person kayak, made from a plywood kit. It's not cheap, but we're getting a boat at 2/3 the cost of one commercially made. And it should provide years of fun. I think you're starting to dig your way out of the blahh's. Hang in there, you're not crazy :-). ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Terrible mother of a crazy family of depressed lunatics... AUTHOR: Kim from sidetracks DATE: Wednesday, 17 November 1999, at 9:49 a.m. Response To: different kind of burnout? **very, very long! Author: Deanne V. Date: Wednesday, 17 November 1999, at 7:13 a.m. Oh well we ALL feel like that sometimes !! ;-) I went to a seminar (my first one EVER !) and they were talking about a balance between the kids working with you and working alone. I have a hs'ing neighbour now and we get together on Tuesdays. Most of the time I DREAD it... LEAVE THE HOUSE ???? =8-/ But I do come home feeling energized and I know for myself that I do more when I have more to do. The girls over at Sidetracks are my support group. They share my fears and joys and the good and bad in my life. When you find a group of people that are like you- then you are "normal" :-) Having never had that experience in life before I still find it rather amusing ;-) I always find that a project perks us up ! :-) Maybe there is a volunteer thing in your area that the kids could do ? This is tricky in some places because young kids aren't welcome because of insurance reasons, etc. but sometimes things like dog walking at the SPCA or something can be good for kids. SOMETHING outside themselves :-) Kim ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: different kind of burnout? **very, very long! AUTHOR: annie DATE: Wednesday, 17 November 1999, at 6:09 p.m. Response To: different kind of burnout? **very, very long! Author: Deanne V. Date: Wednesday, 17 November 1999, at 7:13 a.m. > I wonder if anyone else has experienced > a different kind of burnout? We've homeschooled > for several years (since 2nd grade for > my daughter and my son has never been > to school--they are now 13 and 10). > We started out semi-structured, but > took lots of time off to go places and > do things. That worked when the kids > were little. However, as they got older, > they weren't interested in joining in > every little thing and grew to *hate* > having to go anywhere. They wanted to > stay home and play. We began doing less, > and as we "evolved" in our > HSing, we became more and more "relaxed" > in what we were doing for academics, > too. > However, what I noticed is that > the more "relaxed" we became > (the less "school-like stuff" > we did), the less the kids did--completely! > They grew less and less interested in > the things they'd always loved--playing > music, building, working on their individual > projects, etc. > It seems to me that too much time > on their hands created just empty days > of "nothingness." I found > we were all getting depressed. I really > worried about my daughter, especially, > just sitting around all the time. She > doesn't really have any close friends, > though she takes karate twice a week. > That was the only thing she cared about. > She used to love to work on puzzles > of all kinds--logic puzzles, jigsaw > puzzles, 3-d puzzles, etc., but she > even stopped this pasttime. She loved > to write stories, but became dissatisfied > with it and stopped that eventually. > She didn't like anything she wrote. > She's always been an avid reader ever > since she learned to read, and she even > began reading less. > I have just found that my kids > (and me) need stimulation. That can > come from some structure, books, or > even TV shows--or seeing a play or going > to a lecture or a museum--whatever... > They need to be taken "away" > from their interests at times, too, > along with being led to pursue them. > However, living here, there isn't much > outside stimulation. We really have > to create our own. > Over the last 2 - 3 years (not > all spent in Alaska--we were in North > Carolina, then Massachusetts, and have > only been here a little more than a > year), my daughter has wanted to be > abducted by aliens, live in the rainforest > (as a "wild" person, not to > work or study anything), go into space > (preferably to Mars), live in the wilderness, > live in the caves of Tennessee, and > now go back in time (she's convinced > that she was born into the "wrong" > time period). And has any of this led > to learning? Not really. She's not really > interested in learning *real* stuff > about the rainforest or caves or space > or even about history. No, she is bored > with her life and thinks that all life > will be just as boring and so she is > looking for an "escape." She's > read a few books about the rainforest, > about space and things like that, but > she says that "ruins" things > for her because then she can't imagine > her *own* things as well. I appreciate > her imagination and I see her uniqueness > and her unusual view of the world as > one of her greatest gifts. > This "feeling" and attitude > (the apathetic lethargy :-) ) crept > in as I was reading more and leaning > more and more towards unschooling--or > not exactly, but sort of. LOL Part of > it was the age--when that "magic" > sort of wears off and there's no Santa > and she also began realizing that things > had explanations that weren't necessarily > "magical" any more, so some > of that sense of wonder wore off then. > > BUT...I think more of it wore off > *because* I left her with too much time > on her hands doing nothing. I hoped > that this would get the kids to reach > inside themselves and find *something,* > but it hasn't really worked that way > for us--not with either of my children, > actually. Even with my son who has a > lot of VERY strong interests and things > that he gets passionate about, becomes > more apathetic when he just has endless > hours to pursue his interests. When > there's no structure to the day, no > routine, no nothing--life seems like > endless "nothing." > My kids, who had always been like > best friends, began fighting and became > more jealous of each other over silly > things. They just began picking at each > other more and more over nothing. (The > "He's breathing too loud" > syndrome.) So on top of "nothing" > we began having more and more terrible > bickering, too. Some days it was so > bad I'd go to MY room and cry! > Sure *sometimes* the kids did stuff > on their own, but those little spurts > of "something" every once > in a while can't eradicate all the "nothing" > in between--especially when the "nothing" > is BAD. And we did have a little structure--we > read together every morning, each of > us taking turns, reading from a book > of our choice. This was our favorite > part of our day. > The only thing that my daughter > got excited about was going on an archaeological > dig for one day last spring. Such opportunities > are few and far between for us, though. > We are a military family that moves > around a lot (twice in two years!) and > we are all mostly introverted and I > am downright shy. We live on an island > in Alaska. The homeschool group here > is Christian, and we are not really... > :-) I have tried to make "contacts" > but I'm not good at this at all. We > don't really know any other HSing families > here, though we know of some. > Mostly all we were doing for a > long time was reading together--and > the kids did some math and we sometimes > did a little of this or that. :-) But > after that...my daughter would just > sit in the chair in the living room. > She began to get WAY too introspective... > > This was not a good situation... > (There is more, but I think my daughter > would not appreciate my posting it on > a public BBS. :-) ) Even my son, who > has always been extremely motivated > with his own projects stopped doing > most of the things he enjoyed... > I think we really needed some structure > and stimulation. Luckily for us, some > came our way and I am creating the rest! > :-) For one, we got new neighbors with > kids just my kids ages--and these kids > are NICE. My kids still don't hang around > lots with the other kids, but at least > they are not so isolated as when we > first moved here. (This is partly because > we made a conscious effort to be more > outgoing. For example, when the neighbors > moved in, my daughter and I baked them > cookies. Bringing the cookies over to > their house was one of the hardest things > I've ever done in my life, but now we > have some really great friends!) > We also had the opportunity to > go back east for five weeks--which we > did, even though it meant the kids missing > karate class during that time. We visited > family and also got together with some > special online homeschool friends, and > we did "touristy" things, > too. We can thank my wonderful MIL for > that trip! :-) > And...I've decided to "do > school" now, sort of. We've always > had short bursts of energy where we > got a bit more structured, but most > of the time we've concentrated on math > and maybe a little bit of something > else--whatever seemed the most "needful" > area. We have always read a lot together. > > BUT...I remember when I used to > do more with the kids--more projects, > but also plan out unit studies and just > DO stuff--the kids were more productive > on their own, too! They were highly > motivated to use their time for exploring > their own interests. But I found the > less I did with them, the less they > did on their own. And I noticed right > away when I began planning "school > stuff" for the kids again now that > my kids have become motivated again. > My daughter is practicing music again > and even has a goal to play Chistmas > carols on Christmas Eve (just for us, > I think!). She isn't writing again (she's > decided to wait until she's 15), but > she is writing the things I ask her > to--mostly short narrations of books > she's reading. She's not thrilled with > the things I'm asking her to do, but > she is interested in almost all of it > and excited about some of it. My son > is building things and designing models > again with his various building sets. > He's also building new plastic models. > He actually enjoys dictating to me short > "blurbs" about the things > he's doing and making a notebook with > pictures and these short writings, as > long as he doesn't have to write it > all out by hand. He is animated and > interested when he tells me about the > things he's reading. > I've decided that that's enough > for us for now. Doing *something* has > got to be better than doing nothing > all the time, right? Or am I crazy? > :-) I just think this goes contrary > to what I've always read and thought > about learning and motivation, but I > have found that when *I* occupy more > of the kids' time, their productivity > and motivation in all other areas of > their lives seems to go up. And the > less I "make" them do, the > less they do on their own. > Well, I could go on and on--and > I guess I have. I am nervous about posting > this here, and I don't even know why > I am posting it here. Maybe someone > else is experiencing something similar? > Or maybe we are the only ones? I'm afraid > you'll all think I'm a terrible mother > or that we're a crazy family of depressed > lunatics or something. :-) > BUT...my kids are generally happier > now. Things are not perfect. They complain, > but they are fighting less and not depressed > or lethargic any more. My daughter is > still very strong-willed, and my son > whines, and they fight over who the > cat likes best... :-) We do make an > effort to *do* stuff--whatever is available, > like going to a local theater production > or something like that. But there's > not much here. :-) Last year we even > went to the high school plays and went > to see the local dance school's production > of the Nutcracker. We never could afford > to travel around and do all the really > cool things I wished we could do, anyway, > so living here maybe doesn't make that > much difference, and we do have some > unique opportunities here that we wouldn't > have anywhere else. :-) There is just > not much here for everyday stuff--volunteer > work, museums, etc. > Deanne ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: That other one was a big time OOPS!...here's the real post...sorry... AUTHOR: annie DATE: Wednesday, 17 November 1999, at 6:20 p.m. Response To: different kind of burnout? **very, very long! Author: Deanne V. Date: Wednesday, 17 November 1999, at 7:13 a.m. When I finally got to the part about yours being a military family, with the frequent moves, my memory went -boing-!! I well remember how depressing it was to never know how long we would be anywhere, how long I might know my friends (your self defense mechanism leads you not to bother much with making them)and you feel like you have absolutely no control over your own life, your room is temporary, your address is temporary, your neighborhood is temporary...etc., ad infinitum. It just got worse as the moves went on. Just a thought, but that might be a good part of the attitude changes...I don't know what to tell you - if he's not near retirement, you will have to find some creative ways to combat this ... It sounds like your daughter is ripe to write a great escape novel - or at least the short story version...LOL I'll bet it would be great reading! Good luck!!!! ((((Deanne)))) ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: S.A.D. Seasonal Attention Deficit AUTHOR: Deanne V. DATE: Thursday, 18 November 1999, at 4:06 a.m. Response To: S.A.D. Seasonal Attention Deficit Author: Peg Date: Wednesday, 17 November 1999, at 8:59 a.m. > I don't know if S.A.D is the problem > at your house, but it is something to > consider. It is entirely possible. I think that might have been a part of it. Things did perk up for us when the weather got nicer and things got lighter out, BUT...it didn't completely stop. The kids still weren't doing much. In any case, this is something I am already exploring, though I'm not quite sure what we can do about it yet--I'm still learning about it. Thanks for your example! It's been rumored that "they" (the base housing people) are going to install full-spectrum lights in all the houses, but it may just be a rumor. I'm wondering if that would really help or if I should look into something else for this winter. > At least she's thinking about something > & not living inside some tv drama. > hehehe I guess that's true, but sometimes I don't know if it's any better for her to go off into her "dream world" and "live" there. I did the same thing as a child and I went to public school, so I don't think that it has anything to do with HSing. BUT...I didn't have as much time to spend doing this as she does. :-) > Do you think that this episode > has been triggered by the beginning > of puberty? Your daughters fantasies > remind me an awful lot of mine when > I was that age. Yes!!! I definitely noticed a change in her when she started puberty a few years ago. It's true that her enthusiasm definitely changed at that time, too. But I still have noticed the correlation between the more *I* do and make the kids do, less brooding and more enthusiasm is what I see in the kids. I see this in both kids and I don't believe my son has started puberty yet. So...some of it is due to puberty and some of it may well be due to SAD, and I do believe some of it is due to our being a military family and moving around so much, and also due to some extreme stress our family went through last year (facing a *third* move in 3 years--it didn't happen, but the stress of the "not knowing" which lasted for months was almost as bad as having to move again). But again, I still have noticed that no matter what the other outside or internal stressors are, if I get the kids moving, they gain more motivation and enthusiasm on their own, too. But if we have little routine and structure, they seem to lose motivation and enthusiasm in all areas of their lives. My daughter especially craves structure--and I couldn't possibly be as structured as she would like! > Good for you! I, too, find it hard > to do stuff like this. Thanks. Me too! I worried and agonized over it. I know for some people it would be a simple kindness, but for me it was SO hard. :-) However, because of that first kindness, my neighbors felt able to come and ask to use our phone on their first day in their house, and then we just became more and more friendly. Now they are like our "best" friends. They only moved in last August and yet we feel like we've known each other for years and years. In 19 years of marriage, this is the first time this has ever happened to us! We were friendly with neighbors before, of course, but we lived here a year and didn't know *anyone* except people who worked for my husband. :-) We live in a 6-family townhouse building and I didn't even know anyone else who lived in the building, except the next-door neighbors--and them only to say "hi" to. > Seems like I remember reading about > quite a bit of archaeological/anthropological > studies being done on the islands along > the coast of Alaska. I know there are > wildlife & fisheries biologists > and botanists working that region. Yes, this is true! Alaska is HUGE, though, and it isn't possible for us to travel off the island all that much. We take advantage of flying free on the military cargo plane that goes to Anchorage. We can go twice a year, maybe more if we are lucky. :-) For many of them, you have to pay to work, too (or at least this is what I heard from the local archaeologist--but I could have misunderstood). :-) However, our local museum/archaeological repository does community digs once every year. My daughter was too young to participate last year, but I "begged" the archaeologist and she agreed to let her come for one day if I came too, so that's what we did. (Hard work!!! hehe) > If you're going to be there awhile > you might try a bigger project. Our > family project this year is a 20 ft > long, 3 person kayak, made from a plywood > kit. It's not cheap, but we're getting > a boat at 2/3 the cost of one commercially > made. And it should provide years of > fun. This is such an EXCELLENT idea. This is exactly what I would like!!!!!! But it is hard to think of such a thing--especially something that would involve our whole family. We drove up here, taking about four + weeks and that time, and also the moving in and other things, was almost like that--a family project that we all worked together on. I remember that as being one of the very best times in our family because of that. There was almost no fighting and, in fact, the kids got along GREAT. We were all busy and happy, too, and not always on top of each other, but together virtually 24 hours a day! Even after we moved in, the kids and DH built a workbench in the basement and did a few other smaller projects and that was great. However, I have been unable to think of anything like this that we could do now. :-( I've talked with DH about this and he can't think of anything either. He involves the kids in small things like fixing cars and fixing things around the house (it's not our house--we live in base housing), but we don't have any big projects right now. I told DH they should build a new shed or a clubhouse for the kids--something--but he doesn't see the point. I think maybe he is right. We need something "real" like your boat project. :-) > I think you're starting to dig > your way out of the blahh's. Hang in > there, you're not crazy :-). Thanks!!!! Yes, we are. It's not easy, though. I think the hardest part for me is to try to find a balance between organizing our time and still giving the kids time to do what they want. And yet...when the kids have all the time in the world, they don't do what they want--the do nothing. hehehe The second-hardest part is dealing with my own stress and depressions and lack of motivation. :-) Thanks for writing and giving me some ideas and thoughts to contemplate. Deanne > ======================================== MESSAGE: Loved your subject line! :-) AUTHOR: Deanne V. DATE: Thursday, 18 November 1999, at 5:17 a.m. Response To: Re: Terrible mother of a crazy family of depressed lunatics... Author: Kim from sidetracks Date: Wednesday, 17 November 1999, at 9:49 a.m. > Oh well we ALL feel like that sometimes > !! ;-) :-) Thanks! It does help to hear this. :-) > I went to a seminar (my first one > EVER !) and they were talking about > a balance between the kids working with > you and working alone. Yes, it's a hard to find that balance, I think. I also think it might be different for every family and even different for each individual child/person. My kids do work alone, but only if I give them something to do. :-) I am not one-on-one with them all day, even when I am giving them things to do. However, if I give my son some things to do, he really keeps himself busy the rest of the time building model airplanes and spaceships, building with Legos and other building sets, making paper and cardboard airplanes from kits, books, and even inventing his own things. > I have a hs'ing neighbour now and > we get together on Tuesdays. Most of > the time I DREAD it... LEAVE THE HOUSE > ???? =8-/ > But I do come home feeling energized > and I know for myself that I do more > when I have more to do. :-) I know exactly what you mean. I am definitely a "homebody" also. Just taking the kids to karate class twice a week is sometimes too stressful for me! But I know my daughter needs more when she asks me everyday, "Where can we go today?" or she wants me to take her out on an errand to the store or the library--not because she needs anything, but because she just wants to get out of the house for a while. > The girls over at Sidetracks are > my support group. They share my fears > and joys and the good and bad in my > life. When you find a group of people > that are like you- then you are "normal" > :-) Having never had that experience > in life before I still find it rather > amusing ;-) Yes! I have an email loop that I've been on for four years now and these girls are my very best friends, ever!!! :-) I don't think I'd have got this far without them. :-) > I always find that a project perks > us up ! :-) Yes! I wish I had some ideas for a good project, or that something would come up in the kids' lives. I wish there was something pressing, something we all wanted to do, or even something that one of us wanted to do... :-) Maybe there is a volunteer > thing in your area that the kids could > do ? This is tricky in some places because > young kids aren't welcome because of > insurance reasons, etc. but sometimes > things like dog walking at the SPCA > or something can be good for kids. SOMETHING > outside themselves :-) > Kim Yes, I'd *love* to find something like this for my children, especially my daughter who's 13 now. We did check at the local animal shelter, though, and she has to be 16 to volunteer there unless I go too. I wouldn't mind going, too, also but the person who works there seemed very vague about even what the hours are, or when we could come. I'd like to set up a schedule, but she wanted me to call before coming whenever we wanted to come to see if it was a "good day." Then she started spouting off hours and days that she has "this thing" or "that thing" so those wouldn't be good days and times to call...and I just became so confused by the whole thing that I decided it was just too hard. I am actually hoping that my daughter can volunteer at the local museum/archaeological repository. They wanted volunteers on the digs to be 14 or older, but we went to the dig on that one day and have gone to many events at the museum since then (lecture series, open house, etc.) and so are trying to get to know the museum people in that way. My daughter will be 14 in December, so I hope to approach them after the holidays, perhaps. I don't know, though, if my daughter is ready to do something like that, in all honesty. She isn't really shy, but she is reserved and also not one to sort of "push herself" forward. So, what I mean was, she'd just stand there and do nothing if they didn't tell her specifically what to do--especially when she first got there. Once she felt comfortable and had a good idea, she'd work hard and not have to be told to do things. She will take initiative--just not in a strange situation. I think she'd do better on the dig where she'd have a specific job, and then could get to know everyone in that way first. If things don't work out this winter, then she can volunteer next summer on the dig and then, hopefully, volunteer at the museum (at the lab) after that, if she is still interested. Thanks for the ideas! We also hope to sign up for music lessons and art lessons this winter, if possible. I am having trouble getting in touch with the teachers. We're getting a late start because of our trip back east in September/October. Thanks again! Deanne ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: That other one was a big time OOPS!...here's the real post...sorry... AUTHOR: Deanne V. DATE: Thursday, 18 November 1999, at 5:28 a.m. Response To: Re: That other one was a big time OOPS!...here's the real post...sorry... Author: annie Date: Wednesday, 17 November 1999, at 6:20 p.m. Oh, what you said about military families is SO true! It is hard for *all* of us. My daughter did have a VERY, very special VERY best friend a few years ago who moved away. A friend like that might happen only once in a lifetime, and it was hard for my daughter when she moved away. They were a military family also. And, of course, we made friends in the four years we spent in North Carolina and had to leave them all behind. Moving again the following year didn't make things easier, either. Actually, my husband has been "in" for 21 years now, but we've got nine more years to go. He was just promoted to warrant officer last spring and he needs to stay in that much longer in order to benefit from increased retirement--and it's a big increase from what he would have got. This does make things hard, though. My daughter does say she doesn't *want* any friends. She has never made friends easily, although she played easily with all other children when she was small. BUT...being with other kids just at HS group meetings or just at Girl Scouts once a week or whatever, she never made friends in such situations. In the past we've done lots to seek out new friends, but it has always backfired. Having a girl my daughter's age right next door has been wonderful. Even though my daughter isn't entirely comfortable with it, this girl thinks my daughter is wonderful and has also introduced her to other kids around the neighborhood (even though she's only lived here a couple of months, she already knows everyone). I wish my daughter would let me share with you all the story that she has been writing, but she won't. She is dissatisfied with it and trying to come to terms with the fact that she can't make it "perfect." I hope she continues writing it, though, or starts something else. Thanks so much for your understanding. It really means a lot. :-) Thanks for the cyber hug, too. :-) Deanne ======================================== MESSAGE: What does MWR offer? AUTHOR: Peg DATE: Thursday, 18 November 1999, at 8:09 a.m. Response To: Re: S.A.D. Seasonal Attention Deficit Author: Deanne V. Date: Thursday, 18 November 1999, at 4:06 a.m. The photo lab at MWR (Morale, Welfare & Recreation) in Chicago helped us get through one very long winter during my dh's training. > Yes!!! I definitely noticed a change > in her when she started puberty a few > years ago. Goody, something to look forward to. ;-) > We take advantage of flying free on > the military cargo plane that goes to > Anchorage. We can go twice a year, maybe > more if we are lucky. :-) We never did get to take advantage of MAC flights. (Another lie the recruiter used to hook us! :-( > them, you have to pay to work, too (or > at least this is what I heard from the > local archaeologist-- Yes, there are many "pay to play/work" programs, but I have found that if I want to do something bad enough there's a way to get around that. A couple years ago I offered my assistance at a commercial photo lab in exchange for some lessons. It worked out great for both of us, as the owner was a struggling new entrepreneur & couldn't afford to hire help. When I was involved with biologists during college, I found many more opportunities to help (& learn) than I had time to do. > . We drove up here, taking about > four + weeks and that time, Ahhh, those long vacations between duty stations were so very nice. The two week vacations we're allowed from dh's civilian job just aren't enough. > Thanks!!!! Yes, we are. It's not > easy, though. I think the hardest part > for me is to try to find a balance between > organizing our time and still giving > the kids time to do what they want. I think balance is the hardest part for most parents (if not all of us!). This has been an absolutely crazy week for us, with outside activities every day. I've got to learn to say "no" and stay home awhile. The military life is tough on family life. My husband only did one hitch and we both agreed to wait till he got out before having a child. Feel free to write me directly or through the board if you just want to visit sometime. Peg ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Anyone tried the 2 months on and 1 month off schedule to AVOID burnout?... AUTHOR: Mrs. K DATE: Thursday, 18 November 1999, at 9:21 a.m. Response To: Anyone tried the 2 months on and 1 month off schedule to AVOID burnout?... Author: Dawne Date: Friday, 12 November 1999, at 12:24 p.m. I have been considering 3 weeks on 1 week off approach (except reading!). That way we can do field trips, house work, vacations or what ever. I would have to look closely at our program, but it could work into that also. We do have 2 things we do, 1 a more formal "curricula" with lots of activities, and the other 'lite' workbook stuff, (5-6 pgs a day that take less than an hour to complete them all, and it is generally covers material he did weeks ago in the regular stuff, so it is more like review). My DS does have a problem that if we take more than just the a 3 day weekend off, he won't get back into it. So "lite" times generally consist of the easy workbook and reading. This means that even through Christmas (though much more flexible) we will continue with the 'lite' school and do stuff like make gifts and cookies and decorations and bread and stuff. And of course, read about Christmas. Well, I'm always open to suggestions. Mrs. K ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Anyone tried the 2 months on and 1 month off schedule to AVOID burnout?... AUTHOR: Mrs. K DATE: Thursday, 18 November 1999, at 9:26 a.m. Response To: Re: Anyone tried the 2 months on and 1 month off schedule to AVOID burnout?... Author: Mrs. K Date: Thursday, 18 November 1999, at 9:21 a.m. Forgot one thing, we do 4 reg. days and one 'lite' day w/ only reading so we can do all the big house work stuff or field trips or group activity or what ever. That does help. Right now my DS has a swim-n-gym class on Mon. so that is the day, but it is over in 2 weeks so the day we 'take off' may change. I do keep track of our full days and 1/2 days on a paper at the beginning of my plan book. We live in a stat where x no. of days is required (I think). ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: different kind of burnout? **very, very long! AUTHOR: Melissa DATE: Thursday, 18 November 1999, at 1:18 p.m. Response To: different kind of burnout? **very, very long! Author: Deanne V. Date: Wednesday, 17 November 1999, at 7:13 a.m. > I wonder if anyone else has experienced > a different kind of burnout? Wow, I sure have!! I'm amazed that I haven't been on the computer for 6 weeks, and when I DO, I come across THIS POST! You are describing my situation exactly...this is my 3rd yr HSing, I have a 9 yoG, 3 yoB and 1yoG - and we are so fried, I'm thinking of sending her back to PS any day now! I have tried a dozen or more different curriculums, trying to "stimulate" my child's interest - but she always changes her mind on what she wants to do, never follows through on anything, we argue constantly, she resists every effort I make to "educate" her, and when I leave her alone, she does nothing but read....read all day, read all night. Doesn't want to write about it, dissect it, discuss, etc, just read. I thought this was great for awhile, but sheesh, there's more to life than just reading! Her only outside activity is gymnastics, which she is obsessed with, and we know LOTS of other homeschool families, but we NEVER get together with them, because our schedules never coincide, they are always "busy"... I'm truthfully sick of the whole thing, and would do anything for relief, including PS... Maybe its time?! Glad to know I'm not the only one who's freaking out =) ======================================== MESSAGE: freaking out! :-) AUTHOR: Deanne V. DATE: Thursday, 18 November 1999, at 5:54 p.m. Response To: Re: different kind of burnout? **very, very long! Author: Melissa Date: Thursday, 18 November 1999, at 1:18 p.m. Oh, you sound so discouraged! I wasn't meaning to discourage anyone further, and I hope I didn't. I don't know that I should be dispensing advice, but I had some ideas about what you said, so I'll just share how I think it was/is with my family, okay? :-) One thing that might help in the short term would be to capitalize on the thing your daughter *is* enthusiastic about--gymanstics. If she does love gymnastics, what about finding some neat books about that to explore? She also might be interested in studying the human body a bit to see how it all works when she exercises and how to keep fit, etc. That might be a start, at least. Sometimes, with my kids, especially at that age, just getting several books on a random topic at the library worked well for us--to sort of get things going. If we saw a show on the Discovery Channel about wolves, we might read about wolves, both nonfiction and also stories that featured wolves. Or if the kids noticed something about birds, we read about birds, or made birds out of clay or something like that. I was never terribly organized and I can't say that we had any learning objectives or goals in those days, but it was more fun. :-) My kids weren't jumping for joy over it all, though, either. Another thing--and take this with a grain of salt--but I have done the same as you. As soon as the kids started being less than enthusiastic or said stuff like "This is boring" or if they just didn't want to do something, I would always think that something was wrong. Why weren't *my* kids so ultra enthusiastic about *everything* like all those other HS kids out there. :-) (I know this topic was touched on below, too, so I won't add to that here.) But I really thought that if my kids weren't totally excited and enthusiastic about learning *everything* all the time, then something must be "wrong." :-) I was always changing things around in response to this, to try to "solve" these "problems." However, another *discovery* I've made is...sometimes kids are just bored right that minute or just that day. It doesn't mean they want or need everything changed right then!!! It might just mean that they need a break THAT DAY, or maybe they are feeling insecure and want some reassurance and so they say they don't want to do something. (It has taken me a long time to realize this with my daughter!) I admit I have always had a tendency to overreact to things like this, though I try really hard not to. But it IS hard. And some kids will say some weird things and come to some odd conclusions at this age--and sometimes they are really just saying it because they are just saying it. LOL I don't know how to explain what I mean, but anyone with a child of this age will understand what I mean. I mean things like : "I'm never getting married until I'm 50" or "I'm only going to have red-headed children" or "I'm going to live in Siberia" or "I won't ever pay bills when *I* grow up" or "I will never need to go grocery shopping because I will live off the land" or whatever. You get the idea. At this age, kids try LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of ideas and personalities on "for size" and if you take it all too seriously and think stuff like "What an insensitive remark she has made. Does she realize how many poor people in the world don't have it as good as she does?" and then proceed to explain, it doesn't help and my daughter is often insulted by that. With my own daughter--well, she is very smart about "things" in the world and she can figure things out for herself. She's not insensitive or ignorant about the way things are, but she is a kid. LOL! If I am truly concerned about something like the above, I think it's better NOT to explain "on the spot" and make it a response to something she has said or done. It works out much better to choose a book that illustrates a point I'd like to make or even just wait until something on the news or in a TV show or something brings up the topic and then we can discuss it *neutrally* and not on a personal level as in "You think this wrong thing and you are very wrong and let me explain why." So...I guess what I'm saying is...you don't always have to take it all too seriously, either, when they say they are bored or don't want to do something, etc. It's possible that too many changes could also contribute to a lack of interest/motivation, too. What I am trying to do now is be respectful and responsive, but not necessarily change everything around because the kids tell me they don't want to do something or that they "hate" something. Often my kids will tell me how much they "hate" something and then in an hour they are telling me enthusiastically about something they've read about that "hated" topic. As far as being excited about learning...well, my kids sometimes even try to manipulate me. LOL! As I mentioned above, often they just wanted to not do something on that one day, not give it up completely or change everything right then. I could write you a book on looking back over the last few years and my kids would complain about schoolwork or this or that and say "This is BORING!!!" or "Why do we have to do this?" even when it was something *they* wanted to do!!!!!! Why was their horrible mother making them do this? I actually felt guilty about it all, even though I was going out of my way to find things they were interested in and help them pursue those interests. As a homeschool mom, those were the words I most dreaded!!! I wanted my kids to love learning, to be enthusiastic always, but that's not a very realistic goal, is it? Of course I want them to love learning, but to expect them to be enthusiastic and eager all the time is what's unrealistic. *I'm* not enthusiastic all the time, either--not even about things I'm really interested in, and certainly not about things I'm not that interested in. :-) Sometimes when kids make those remarks, they are serious, but at other times, they are just *saying* it because they want to say it. My kids will say stuff like this hoping I will just not make them do it for that day . They don't want to give it up or completely change. So many times I have given up on some "hated" thing only to have the kids come back to me later and ask why we stopped doing this or that, or why we're not doing things the "old" way, and they insist they liked it or wanted to, etc. If I press, reminding my daughter of what she said, she'll tell me, "Oh, I was just in a bad mood that day. I really liked that." It is very hard to know the difference!!!! In the past, I tried so hard to be responsive to the kids that I changed things around in response to their "needs" as I perceived them way too much. Sometimes this was the right move, but just as often, it was the wrong one. There are a ton of examples of this in our family, but a recent one is about two years ago I had my daughter doing a Saxon math book. She loved it. She did GREAT with it. She never had any problems with the clear explanations. (This was after three years of struggling through other math curriculums.) She even did all the problems with every lesson with virtually no complaint. Suddenly she wanted to drop it and do Miquon math again and I let her. She said she wanted to "think" about math and not just do it. Her reasons sounded so plausible at the time. :-) NOW, though, she tells me that she wanted to drop Saxon because it was getting into some stuff she wasn't sure she could do and she wanted to avoid it. LOL! Looking back, I bet with just a tiny bit of encouragement like, "You can do that...give it a try" and she would have done it and done well with it. Do you see what I mean? So...you are not the only one freaking out, but I still think there is hope for us all! hehehe I hope this helps, but if not, feel free to write more here or privately. I'd be glad to "chat" more about this, if you want. Deanne ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Oh, goodness, I know that one too...LOL AUTHOR: annie DATE: Friday, 19 November 1999, at 2:00 a.m. Response To: Re: That other one was a big time OOPS!...here's the real post...sorry... Author: Deanne V. Date: Thursday, 18 November 1999, at 5:28 a.m. I spent so much of my life not finishing or sharing some things because I couldn't "get it just right" ...LOL... what a loss... I hope she will come to realize that even at its worst, it is far better than many that get paid lots of money, and even at its best, there will always be some better, so not to limit herself by that artificial view of perfection... I would love to read it... I'm sure it would be enlightening and thought provoking. annie ======================================== MESSAGE: Does anyone have dvice for a weary mom who works and homeschools AUTHOR: Barbara C. DATE: Friday, 19 November 1999, at 9:15 a.m. I have found it necessary to work outside the home part-time. This is on top of doing homeschool, cleaning house, grocery shopping, cooking...... I find that when I have an especially busy day (or week) that homeschool is just a bunch of paperwork. I hate this, and my dd does too. Any suggestions? I do retail sales and will be working 30+ hours per week until after Christmas. TIA! Barbara C. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Does anyone have dvice for a weary mom who works and homeschools AUTHOR: Dawne DATE: Friday, 19 November 1999, at 3:07 p.m. Response To: Does anyone have dvice for a weary mom who works and homeschools Author: Barbara C. Date: Friday, 19 November 1999, at 9:15 a.m. > I have found it necessary to work > outside the home part-time. This is > on top of doing homeschool, cleaning > house, grocery shopping, cooking...... My first question is who can help you with some of this? Grocery shopping can be delegated. Some of the cleaning too. Do you know how to cook a lot of something and then freeze for later use? I'm trying to learn that now. > I find that when I have an especially > busy day (or week) that homeschool is > just a bunch of paperwork. I hate this, > and my dd does too. YUCK. Not at all the fun and exhilerating way huh? > Any suggestions? I do retail sales and will be working 30+ hours per week until after Christmas. Well, we've recently switched to an alternative schedule. We'll not be taking the standard 3 month summer vacation anymore. If this job is temporary than maybe you could take a 2 week break of homeschooling or even more. Pub. school kids get a huge Christmas Break so why not take a breather yourself?? Put some fun into the holidays. > You may want to check out this onelist WORKandHOMESCHOOL@onelist.com Good luck, Dawne ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: different kind of burnout? **very, very long! AUTHOR: Katie DATE: Friday, 19 November 1999, at 11:06 p.m. Response To: Re: different kind of burnout? **very, very long! Author: Melissa Date: Thursday, 18 November 1999, at 1:18 p.m. I think it's great that your daughter is reading all the time. I would let her do that for a while and take the time she's occupied and use it for yourself, Holiday preparations,home school research, classic books etc. Maybe she'd be interested in helping you do the holiday baking and decorating. She'll learn a lot by reading so I wouldn't worry. Good luck, Katie > > Wow, I sure have!! I'm amazed that > I haven't been on the computer for 6 > weeks, and when I DO, I come across > THIS POST! You are describing my situation > exactly...this is my 3rd yr HSing, I > have a 9 yoG, 3 yoB and 1yoG - and we > are so fried, I'm thinking of sending > her back to PS any day now! I have tried > a dozen or more different curriculums, > trying to "stimulate" my child's > interest - but she always changes her > mind on what she wants to do, never > follows through on anything, we argue > constantly, she resists every effort > I make to "educate" her, and > when I leave her alone, she does nothing > but read....read all day, read all night. > Doesn't want to write about it, dissect > it, discuss, etc, just read. I thought > this was great for awhile, but sheesh, > there's more to life than just reading! > Her only outside activity is gymnastics, > which she is obsessed with, and we know > LOTS of other homeschool families, but > we NEVER get together with them, because > our schedules never coincide, they are > always "busy"... I'm truthfully > sick of the whole thing, and would do > anything for relief, including PS... > Maybe its time?! Glad to know I'm not > the only one who's freaking out =) ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: math games AUTHOR: Kim from sidetracks DATE: Saturday, 20 November 1999, at 11:50 a.m. Response To: Re: math games Author: Laura in SC Date: Tuesday, 16 November 1999, at 8:57 a.m. > There"S a nice little card > game called "Math War" that > I picked up at WalMart for about $3 I was coming to reccomend it ! :-) We play it like crazy 8's sort of, too... where you match the answer or the picture. If we worked at it I'm sure we could play other kid's card games with it too :-) Regular flashcards would work just as well for the games but they have colourful pictures on them that tell you the answer :-) They are worth the $3 ! ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: math games AUTHOR: Shan DATE: Sunday, 21 November 1999, at 10:23 a.m. Response To: math games Author: kristen Date: Monday, 15 November 1999, at 7:29 p.m. 1. Tesselations and line drawings for your kinesthetic, antsy, artist. See Dale Seymour catalog. 2. Legos (use them like Cuisenaire rods: add, multiply and divide. Compute area and volume. Build). 3. Buki Calc-U-Draw: connect the dots that require arithmetic first. 4. D.I.M.E. (I got mine at Timberdoodle) 5. Tensigritoy or Zome Tools. Use your Web browser. 6. Dice games. See Peggy Kaye "Games for Math". Also, shoot craps. Compute the odds. 7. Graph-it puzzles -- I've seen some in the stores, but we've always made our own. Take turns giving coordinates and see if the other guys can solve your picture puzzle. Create equations for each coordinate, if you need more challenge. Even little kids can do this with 4-to-the-inch graph paper and "up, down, left, right" instructions, in lieu of Cartesian coordinates. 8. Fraction circles. 9. Ruler and scale "treasure hunts" -- just measure stuff, and each other. 10. "To Infinity" treasue hunt -- find the numbers, sequentially, printed on items in your house. How high can you go? Keep a list of what you found. This game is derived from "Consumer Geography" -- find the country of origin tags on all of your household stuff and locate the country on a map. 11. Tetris! > about this time of year we get > really burnt out on math workbooks...can > anyone share their favorite math games > with us? ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: S.A.D. Seasonal Affective Disorder AUTHOR: Brenda In Ohio DATE: Sunday, 21 November 1999, at 6:27 p.m. Response To: S.A.D. Seasonal Attention Deficit Author: Peg Date: Wednesday, 17 November 1999, at 8:59 a.m. It's called Seasonal Affective Disorder referring to affect meaning mood. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Paperwork Burnout AUTHOR: Brenda In Ohio DATE: Sunday, 21 November 1999, at 6:42 p.m. Response To: Paperwork Burnout Author: Kristen AKA curlywhirly Date: Tuesday, 16 November 1999, at 5:03 p.m. Kristen - I don't know if this will be of any help to you, but I will tell you what I do. I don't have to turn anything in, but have to do the portfolio at the end of the school year. I would dodge and procrastinate until the last minute and then have to spend a whole week end organizing. This year I bought a teacher's lesson plan book. I use it for my general planning which I write in pencil, and then what we actually accomplish I enter in pen along with a grade, if applicable. (My son has requested grades) I am keeping all of Karl's work at least until he starts college, so this year I have it highly organized. I have two huge binders that I have divided into subjects. Every weekend I take a few minutes to organize his current work by subject and date. In additiion, all of his spelling, for example, is in one spiral bound notebook, and unit studies are packaged together in a folder or binder. Anybody could come in at any time and quickly see what we have done. Hope this helps. Brenda ======================================== MESSAGE: Ooops! you're right it is Seasonal Affective Disorder AUTHOR: Peg DATE: Monday, 22 November 1999, at 8:00 a.m. Response To: Re: S.A.D. Seasonal Affective Disorder Author: Brenda In Ohio Date: Sunday, 21 November 1999, at 6:27 p.m. > > It's called Seasonal Affective > Disorder referring to affect meaning > mood. ======================================== MESSAGE: Exclusiveness in H.S. circles...BIG cause of burnout here! AUTHOR: frustrated DATE: Monday, 22 November 1999, at 10:30 p.m. I have taken a step back from the homeschool scene in our town. I have a handful of homeschooling friends that I hang out with, but the divisiveness within the larger homeschooling community is astounding! Your first visit to a homeschool support group will start with introductions and "What church do you belong to?" If you pass that test, there are a million more...Unschooling or school at home? Vaccines or no vaccines? Religious or secular curriculum? Vegan or carnivore? Rich or poor? Cradle homeschoolers or ex-public schoolers? Pokemon or no Pokemon? Harry Potter or no Harry Potter? blah, blah, blah.....Then, the cliques start forming, and adults start arguing, and before you know it, the adults are setting the worst example possible for their children! I guess I'm just wondering what happened to the *support* in support group. I wish that everyone would concentrate on what we all have in common. We all want to give our children a quality education. Most would add some other reasons as well...safety, family togetherness, morals and values, to name a few. Is anyone else seeing this trend toward exclusiveness instead of inclusiveness? Isn't it counterproductive to the homeschooling movement in this country? Has it affected you and your family? It's making me crazy! #(8-O) Frustrated, Whose policy is to open my mind or shut my mouth. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Exclusiveness in H.S. circles...BIG cause of burnout here! AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Monday, 22 November 1999, at 11:31 p.m. Response To: Exclusiveness in H.S. circles...BIG cause of burnout here! Author: frustrated Date: Monday, 22 November 1999, at 10:30 p.m. > Is anyone else seeing this trend > toward exclusiveness instead of inclusiveness? WOW! I read your note and I thought.... "Gee, this is totally true!" What you are describing though, isn't just happening in homeschooling circles.... this is just human nature at its MAX! What's that saying? "Birds of a feather flock together" or is it "stay together?" Whichever way it is said it not only applies to birds... it applies to people, whether they homeschool or not. Sad but true! Hey! Don't feel bad. At least you've got the internet! LOL! I've been homeschooling for three years with NOTHING but the internet for support. It's actually been pretty wonderful and to be honest if it wasn't for the people I've met on the internet I probably would have given up on the idea of homeschooling long ago. I find that the people I've met via this wonderful new technology are much more open, informed and "progressive" than the homeschoolers that aren't "hooked on". I say keep hanging out with your homeschool buddies and stay online. You don't need the big homeschool group! :-) Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Sorting ourselves into smaller and smaller groups AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Tuesday, 23 November 1999, at 12:37 a.m. Response To: Exclusiveness in H.S. circles...BIG cause of burnout here! Author: frustrated Date: Monday, 22 November 1999, at 10:30 p.m. I agree with Giovanna's observation that what you've just described is -- unfortunately -- very typical of human behavior. When I try to see this kind of thing in the most charitable light, I tell myself that people are perhaps looking for kindred spirits when they ask these "sorting" questions, like "Where do you go to church? Do you use a Christian curriculum? Are you an unschooler?" Maybe what they're really wondering is, "Are you by any chance a lot like me? Do we have enough in common to be close friends?" All too often, though, I think folks are looking to make quick and easy classifications. The questions often *seem* to be asked for the purpose of pigeonholing real persons into convenient slots. My opinion has always been that we homeschoolers have an awful lot in common and much to learn from one another, no matter how we differ in our religion, politics, educational philosophy, or lifestyle. If you were to put me in a room with another homeschooler who was my "ideological opposite," I could probably find more ways we were alike than not, but it's a matter of focus. Personally, I don't like the idea of sorting people out into smaller and smaller piles, like laundry -- although in many ways, this seems to be the net result of our society's glorification of "support groups." Have you noticed that the criteria keep getting more specific? Originally, there were (for example) support groups for people dealing with grief in one form or another, but now the trend is for me to able to find a group that supports my very own particular form of grief -- let's say a group for people with a sibling who committed suicide within the last 5 years. On the other hand, in a world where so many of us are jam-packed together in large, amorphous, mostly haphazard groups (large urban centers, huge universities, shopping malls), I think we are naturally driven to aggregate in smaller, more comfortable clusters. At a big school like the University of Texas, the students gravitate to special interest clubs, and no wonder -- how do get a feeling of community when you're just one more ant on an enormous hill? In a very small school or a tiny little town (or, indeed, a family), the social dynamics are completely different. What I've noticed is that in a small, closed system, everyone is eventually accepted for himself, on his own terms. Generally speaking, that is. "Eventually" is probably the key word. In the '70s, I witnessed warm, neighborly, mutually rewarding relationships spring up between "rednecks" and "hippies" in the little Texas hamlet where I lived. In a large city, these people would have been more likely to "seek out their own kind," but in that small-town setting, they developed mutual tolerance, respect, and true affection. It takes TIME, though. I think people often join a homeschool support group hoping to find soulmates at the very first meeting they attend. It does happen way, once in a while, but more often, friendship ties develop gradually. When I think of all the really good homeschooling friends I've had over the years, I'm really kind of amazed by how diverse they've been (and still are). I've had friends of many faiths, wildly differing homeschooling and parenting styles, top and bottom economic brackets, various ethnicities and backgrounds, and different PERSONAL styles, too. Ironically, though, what brought many of us together was the fact that we did have homeschooling in common. That was the initial attraction -- the primary reason we met one another in the first place, or bothered getting to know each better after that first meeting. Well, this has tapered off into a ramble, but I agree with you that finding friendly support is an important defense against burnout. In total isolation, we all tend to lose perspective. Looking forward to reading what others have to say... Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: .BIG cause of burnout here! Here also. AUTHOR: Peg DATE: Tuesday, 23 November 1999, at 8:51 a.m. Response To: Exclusiveness in H.S. circles...BIG cause of burnout here! Author: frustrated Date: Monday, 22 November 1999, at 10:30 p.m. > Your first visit to a homeschool > support group will start with introductions > and "What church do you belong > to?" If you pass that test, there But if you tell them you don't attend a particular church regularly, they try to recruit you into theirs. Which is ok, but it gets annoying after awhile, trying to explain our families spiritual "curriculum" even if it is based in Christianity. To much of the time, the assumption seems to be that if you don't attend their church then you are some sort of heathen and should be avoided or converted. It isn't just home-educators that do this. I went to a writer's conference this weekend & most of the discussion on the way home centered around all the reasons I should attend my "friends" church. It was as if my own spiritual path was totally invalid. The pigeon-holers don't want to associate with people who can't be easily sorted & stereotyped; people who make them uncomfortable with their own choices by freely discussing anything outside their own experiences & value set. ..... > Then, the cliques start forming, and adults start arguing, > and before you know it, the adults are > setting the worst example possible for > their children! I guess I'm just wondering > what happened to the *support* in support > group. I agree with Giovanna. Unfortunately clique-forming seems to be human nature. > I wish that everyone would concentrate > on what we all have in common. We all > want to give our children a quality > education. Most would add some other > reasons as well...safety, family togetherness, > morals and values, to name a few. Me, too. > Is anyone else seeing this trend > toward exclusiveness instead of inclusiveness? > Isn't it counterproductive to the homeschooling > movement in this country? Has it affected > you and your family? It's making me > crazy! #(8-O) Absolutely. To all three questions. > Frustrated, Whose policy is to > open my mind or shut my mouth. Keeping my mouth shut is a challenge also. Right now I "hang out" with several local groups and I try to avoid offending all of them. Some are anti-college, some anti-Halloween, some anti-government, anti-Catholic, anti-foreigners, anti-this, anti-that. It's getting hard to keep track of which topics are off limits. I'm to the point of dropping one group because they just don't *do* anything and they are not receptive to any activity suggestions--from myself OR the other mother with young kids. At first I thought it was because I am an outsider, but they're all so overscheduled that there is no time to add anything else to their days. And I'm about to convert to a two-page per day planner for the new year. ;-( At least we have the internet. Thanks for letting me rant. ======================================== MESSAGE: LOL! This is so true... AUTHOR: Cerelle DATE: Tuesday, 23 November 1999, at 9:43 a.m. Response To: .BIG cause of burnout here! Here also. Author: Peg Date: Tuesday, 23 November 1999, at 8:51 a.m. Peg, your whole post was great, but this was my favorite part: "Some are anti-college, some anti-Halloween, some anti-government, anti-Catholic, anti-foreigners, anti-this, anti-that. It's getting hard to keep track of which topics are off limits." I died laughing when I read that, 'cause it's the truth! I'm going to go out on a limb and do some basic people-sorting here -- I think there might be two kinds of people in the world: (1) those who worry about offending other people...and (2) those other people! Ha! You know, for many years of my life I pussyfooted around, nodding my head pleasantly to every opinion that was expressed to me, no matter how outrageous it might sound to my own sensibilities. One day I thought to myself, "Hey, now! How come I never offer my opinions for fear I might tread on someone else's toes...but no one seems to care how flat MY toes are getting?" I don't know the answer, Peg. Except that taxonomy seems to be a BASIC human urge. Sort, sort, sort. We're all guilty, on some level. Cerelle ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Yes, it can get to be a real pain in the patella.. AUTHOR: annie DATE: Tuesday, 23 November 1999, at 8:38 p.m. Response To: Exclusiveness in H.S. circles...BIG cause of burnout here! Author: frustrated Date: Monday, 22 November 1999, at 10:30 p.m. I just keep trying to find like-minded-includers like you to talk to via the net. There certainly don't seem to be many in my actual geographical location. And I continue to "preach" it (inclusivity and tolerance) through my webpage and my posts. It's a good soapbox. Thanks for bringing it along. annie, of Sassafrass Grove ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: And... AUTHOR: annie DATE: Tuesday, 23 November 1999, at 8:44 p.m. Response To: Re: Yes, it can get to be a real pain in the patella.. Author: annie Date: Tuesday, 23 November 1999, at 8:38 p.m. ...I do think it is a tendancy toward prejudice - when anyone judges others by one particular factor, be it creed, schooling style, or view on a particular point (just one of ever so many, I might add), they are denying the possibility than anything other than their current view can be good, let alone right. "If I have to consider your view and it is very different from my view, I may have to question my view and that is just too scarey!" Thank goodness, my current level of knowledge does not limit my future ability to know more! annie, of Sassafrass Grove ======================================== MESSAGE: My cure for burnout :) AUTHOR: Sue DATE: Tuesday, 23 November 1999, at 11:22 p.m. I've been homeschooling for 2-1/2 years. I only have one child so I have it fairly easy, but my one child has the energy of 12. We've made it a tradition to take a BIG break from the beginning of Advent through January 1st. We play, read, make many, many crafts, bake and just relax. We are "studying" how Christmas is celebrated in different countries and it brings about some wonderful conversations of the various traditions celebrated around the world. By the time January rolls around we're ready to go again. Tomorrow is our last day of school until 2000!!! YES!!!!! Blessings, Sue ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Exclusiveness in H.S. circles...BIG cause of burnout here! AUTHOR: Deanne V. DATE: Wednesday, 24 November 1999, at 6:07 a.m. Response To: Exclusiveness in H.S. circles...BIG cause of burnout here! Author: frustrated Date: Monday, 22 November 1999, at 10:30 p.m. Yes!!!! I have definitely seen this trend--from the very beginning of our HS journey, actually. My very first visit to my very first HS group was at a meeting where the HS group was splitting in two. Even though everyone in the group was Christian, some wanted it to be an exclusively "Christian" group--and they wanted it to be a certain kind of Christian. I have seen this over and over again in different places we've lived, also. It's really too bad. Deanne ======================================== MESSAGE: I wanted to add... AUTHOR: Deanne V. DATE: Wednesday, 24 November 1999, at 6:11 a.m. Response To: Re: Exclusiveness in H.S. circles...BIG cause of burnout here! Author: Deanne V. Date: Wednesday, 24 November 1999, at 6:07 a.m. In our first group, after the split I mentioned above, mostly everyone was friendly, but there was a bit of, well, holding back among everyone because some were school-at-home HSers and others were more relaxed. Most people didn't want to talk about what they actually did at home--some were practically secretive (or so it seemed to me--hehe), and that was so frustrating for me and other new HSers. I wanted so much to talk to other HSers and find out what they did all day and how things were working for them. I really crave sharing lots of different ideas and learning from them all and then finding my own way. It wasn't until I got online that I found any of the kind of support that I was looking for. I wonder if online we are freer with each other because we don't actually see each other? Deanne ======================================== MESSAGE: Then there's the person whose opinion depends on which side of the bed they got up on! AUTHOR: Peg DATE: Wednesday, 24 November 1999, at 9:02 a.m. Response To: LOL! This is so true... Author: Cerelle Date: Tuesday, 23 November 1999, at 9:43 a.m. > You know, for many years of my > life I pussyfooted around, nodding my > head pleasantly to every opinion that > was expressed to me, no matter how outrageous > it might sound to my own sensibilities. Yup, that's me! It's a lot easier to do that than make a comment and find myself with no one to talk to at all. And my child is then doubly ostracized---first for just being a hs'er and second for being "not one of us". Ya just can't win. ======================================== MESSAGE: I've struggled with this exclusion thing. AUTHOR: Andrea in ME DATE: Wednesday, 24 November 1999, at 9:59 p.m. Response To: Then there's the person whose opinion depends on which side of the bed they got up on! Author: Peg Date: Wednesday, 24 November 1999, at 9:02 a.m. And I've come up with some ways of dealing with it. It's a real toughie, and of course as many people have pointed out NOT limited to homeschoolers. We as a family have been very hurt by it, and possibly have inadvertently hurt some people too. Here's what I've decided to do about it: 1) Make a firm commitment to diversity being healthy. That means, embracing eagerly someone who is different, going out of my way to pursue a friendship with them, even if it just means sitting next to them at an event. This includes, especially, people I don't even particularly like. I've noticed that the most healthy social groups are the ones that have to admit anyone who shows up, and be nice to them. If a group is allowed to be exclusive, it quickly gets mean and unhealthy. 2) The second thing I've done is encourage myself and my children to feel proud of our choices and lifestyle, even if they are clearly not approved of by our social group. Stand proud, and judgmental people tend to back down. 3) The third thing I've done is to constantly reach out to new families and new groups. By constantly introducing new blood into our lives and the lives of our friends, we force ourselves (and our friends) to be accepting and not get too enamoured of our own opinions and ways of doing things. We're also always making new friends! 4) The fourth thing I've done is to refuse to participate in any gossip of any kind about any other person. As soon as people start passing judgment on another, I change the subject. I've gotten really fast at this! (Always have an alternative topic ready.) 5) The last thing I've done is endeavored to maintain or restore those friendships harmed by exclusiveness. I've let the excluders, who in some cases have been very blatant, know that I am still their friend, period. In other words, I have persistently held out the olive branch. (After a decent period of time to lick my wounds.) And have encouraged my kids to do the same. In at least two cases, it has been accepted, and the friendship has been restored. I can't take away the hurt of the past but taking these steps has given me peace of mind that I am no longer contributing to exclusiveness, and am doing my best to ameliorate its effects. This stance offers a kind of protection to you and your family. I can't explain it, but it does. ======================================== MESSAGE: Andrea, you are so right! AUTHOR: Judy PA DATE: Thursday, 25 November 1999, at 1:14 p.m. Response To: I've struggled with this exclusion thing. Author: Andrea in ME Date: Wednesday, 24 November 1999, at 9:59 p.m. I love your last thought about 'this stance offers a kind of protection to you and your famiy'. I can't explain it either, but I know that its one of God's promises to us. Thank you for the inspiration!! ======================================== MESSAGE: The Myth of Support Groups? AUTHOR: MM in TX DATE: Thursday, 25 November 1999, at 2:00 p.m. Response To: Sorting ourselves into smaller and smaller groups Author: Cerelle Date: Tuesday, 23 November 1999, at 12:37 a.m. After reading all the reactions to support group friendliness, I'm beginning to believe that maybe we all labor under a mistaken myth. That myth is that a collection of people coming together with some special interest will provide a source of instant friendship and camaraderie. As Cerelle pointed out, there used to be just plain grief support groups; now there are support groups dealing specifically with one kind of grief or another. Maybe, the thought process might go, if I find someone whose experiences are just like mine I will be understood. Maybe if I find someone who unschools just like me, or practices their religion just like me, or is as tolerant and open-minded just like me, or who fits my definition of "friendly", I will find a friend. We see this myth at work all the time in formal schooling where children are channeled into classrooms with their age peers because that is the defining criteria for school. As homeschoolers we know how poorly this assumption fits the real world of varying personalities, maturity levels, and ability. Those of us who had children in public or private school probably never said to them "Pick your friends only from the kids in your classroom" or "You have to like every kid in your class." Yet, those are the expectations we have for our support groups; that we can walk up to a group of diverse personalities and maturities and find instant friends--that we will like everyone and they will like us in a matter of minutes. I have learned through the years that making friends is work, but it's probably one of the most rewarding kinds of work there is. We all don't homeschool in the same way, and we all don't have the same cookie-cutter definition of friendship. The most you can ask of your support group is that it gives you opportunities to do the work of making friendships. One of the most valuable pieces of homeschooling advice I heard when I started was that all you really need is a few families that you and your kids "click" with. I have found that this is really true, but sometimes it takes a bit of searching to find them. Marianne ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: The Myth of Support Groups? AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Thursday, 25 November 1999, at 5:40 p.m. Response To: The Myth of Support Groups? Author: MM in TX Date: Thursday, 25 November 1999, at 2:00 p.m. > After reading all the reactions > to support group friendliness, I'm beginning > to believe that maybe we all labor under > a mistaken myth. That myth is that a > collection of people coming together > with some special interest will provide > a source of instant friendship and camaraderie. Funny you should mention this. As I read the messages that have been posted on this thread I came to the realization that the most penetrating, character-building and the most beneficial frienships I've had are with people that do not do anything remotely close to how I do it. > One of the most > valuable pieces of homeschooling advice > I heard when I started was that all > you really need is a few families that > you and your kids "click" > with. I have found that this is really > true, but sometimes it takes a bit of > searching to find them. OOOH SO TRUE! In our life there are three families (outside my immediate family) who live close to us and whom we share most of our time with (one of the families does not even homeschool). So no, my children do not have loads of friends. But the ones they have are very, very special to them and to be honest that's all they need. Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: my "not recommended" cure AUTHOR: Laura in SC DATE: Thursday, 25 November 1999, at 7:37 p.m. Response To: My cure for burnout :) Author: Sue Date: Tuesday, 23 November 1999, at 11:22 p.m. I wouldn't recommend this for every family, but it has helped us: We have spent the last three weeks sharing the chicken pox. First it was my 4yos. He doesn't usually "do school" much, but he needed lots of extra love and attention when he was sick. So, we called off the formal academics (we don't do that much, anyway) and stepped up the snuggle together and read good books times. As soon as he was feeling better, 6yos started to become ill. He had a much rougher time, both before he actually broke out, and with the itching. So, we did even more reading and snuggling. It doesn't appear as though 10yos will be getting them, so we're back to work next week. It has been a rejuvenating break. I have made a commitment to my husband that we would do math on a formal, regular basis this year, but we are far behind now. With a formal schedule and plan for that one subject only, we have had a relatively peaceful year. Laura ======================================== MESSAGE: Take a second look at your expectations AUTHOR: Kay DATE: Friday, 26 November 1999, at 12:14 a.m. Response To: .BIG cause of burnout here! Here also. Author: Peg Date: Tuesday, 23 November 1999, at 8:51 a.m. I'm pleased to say I have been, and are, involved in several hs-support groups, with very limited exclusiveness. I experienced far more in the workplace and in college, and in the sports scene. But for the most part, I guess I see a support group as an opportunity to locate SUPPORT, in its many facets, weather that be finding someone of similar philosophy, or someone who has a totally different way of approahing things. I have always seen mayself as a server into support groups, as well as a reciever. I have always been bothered by the notion of people judging the hard work of others, based on what they themselves can get out of it, or by how they feel about it. No group will ever meet all the needs of its members, but it usually does meet the needs of those who put forth the effort, including the effort to extend their own hand of friendship and allowances for differences. I suggest we not criticize the support others find, even if it is different than we like, lest we be guilty of the same. ======================================== MESSAGE: Andrea, I agree too!Re: I've struggled with this exclusion thing. AUTHOR: Darla DATE: Saturday, 27 November 1999, at 12:33 p.m. Response To: I've struggled with this exclusion thing. Author: Andrea in ME Date: Wednesday, 24 November 1999, at 9:59 p.m. Andrea, I love what you shared. I have 3 children, two of which are teens. I fervently believe in homeschooling as inadequate as I feel at it. I'm tired of hearing anything negative. Unfortunately I have to agree with most of the comments dealing with this issue. Praise God for your fresh and encouraging insight on responding to one of the more difficult challenges. You are a blessing. Now, I have a positive way to be the example for my children. Thank-you. > out NOT limited to homeschoolers. We > as a family have been very hurt by it, > and possibly have inadvertently hurt > some people too. Here's what I've decided > to do about it: > 1) Make a firm commitment to diversity > being healthy. That means, embracing > eagerly someone who is different, going > out of my way to pursue a friendship > with them, even if it just means sitting > next to them at an event. This includes, > especially, people I don't even particularly > like. > I've noticed that the most healthy > social groups are the ones that have > to admit anyone who shows up, and be > nice to them. If a group is allowed > to be exclusive, it quickly gets mean > and unhealthy. > 2) The second thing I've done is > encourage myself and my children to > feel proud of our choices and lifestyle, > even if they are clearly not approved > of by our social group. Stand proud, > and judgmental people tend to back down. > > 3) The third thing I've done is > to constantly reach out to new families > and new groups. By constantly introducing > new blood into our lives and the lives > of our friends, we force ourselves (and > our friends) to be accepting and not > get too enamoured of our own opinions > and ways of doing things. We're also > always making new friends! > 4) The fourth thing I've done is > to refuse to participate in any gossip > of any kind about any other person. > As soon as people start passing judgment > on another, I change the subject. I've > gotten really fast at this! (Always > have an alternative topic ready.) > 5) The last thing I've done is > endeavored to maintain or restore those > friendships harmed by exclusiveness. > I've let the excluders, who in some > cases have been very blatant, know that > I am still their friend, period. In > other words, I have persistently held > out the olive branch. (After a decent > period of time to lick my wounds.) And > have encouraged my kids to do the same. > In at least two cases, it has been accepted, > and the friendship has been restored. > > I can't take away the hurt of the > past but taking these steps has given > me peace of mind that I am no longer > contributing to exclusiveness, and am > doing my best to ameliorate its effects. > This stance offers a kind of protection > to you and your family. I can't explain > it, but it does. ======================================== MESSAGE: Hs'rs greatest strength is also their greatest weakness. AUTHOR: Esther...Hi, I'm new to this board DATE: Sunday, 28 November 1999, at 11:15 p.m. Our individuality. Okay, look at it this way. What is the mantra of hs'rs to beginners? Let your hs'g reflect your child's learning style. You know your child best. You can create a totally personalized program that is as flexible as your income, or lifestyle can allow you to be. Very True!!! However, this makes us so exclusive that it is difficult to find 2 hs'rs who even use the same curriculum the same way. I don't know about you ladies, but I use about 3 different curriculums between 2 children. One learns best in a very rigid structure (developmental/learning challenged) and the other would shine in unschooling, except Mom likes a little more structure so she compromises with structure in L.A., and Math, and does the rest his way ;-) The end result teaches him a little discipline, satisfies Mom, and keeps everybody happy. I don't know a single other family who does exactly what I do. Not One!! I'm my own exclusive group! ;-) The thing is, I've struggled to come up with this combination, and already know that I'll make some small changes next year. (I really just want to do the no brainer stuff...open a book, do it, get it over with and clean my house! ;-) ) You have struggled, as well, to come up with a comfortable style...and maybe you are still struggling to find your way. And maybe you don't know what I'm talking about. My sister started hs'g and hasn't changed her curriculum once! She augments it once in a while, and does her own thing for one subject, but that's it! :-/ And you would never believe me if I told you what I had to go through to find my special blend of material! Because of this intense struggle I am more convinced that my method works. I have proved it. But you have (hopefully) also proved yours works! This struggle is what makes us so opionated in the area of what we think works best. My personal opinion (also based on my christian beliefs) so you can hit that back button now if you don't want to hear it ;-) is that this has it's roots in the Tower of Babel incident. We all know that you can go to different doctors/scientists/shrinks/other disciplines and rarely get two who hold the same opinion. I have a friend with cancer and she went to get a second opinion. He gave her the same diagnosis, but differed on treatment!! So now what do you do! This, I believe, all stems back to when we received our different languages. We also received different ways of thinking. It also makes our marriages more interesting. =8-O So why? Why would He do that to us? For our character development. We learn to be peacemakers, or we are troublemakers...my youngest son's memory verse this week was Matt 5:9! lol So it's on my brain! We can't change others, just ourselves. So when something happens I can only look at myself and say what does this reveal about me and how do I handle this righteously? End of sermon! Regarding burnout: quit...NONONONO not hs'g! Take a break. Start to recognize the signs and take a day off. Take a week off. (I have a friend who hs's 5 weeks, and breaks for 1 week) I would like to, but can't seem to make myself do it. So I wait till my life goes crazy and then take a week to pull it together. Do a socialization field trip (I visit my sister when this happens!!) And I really do write it down as socialization. I actually included this a a subject. If anyone ever has to see a record on this they will know it was addressed. Isn't that the first question with regards to hs'g? Okay, that's the end of my opinion. LOL Now you can all pick it apart! ;-) ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Hs'rs greatest strength is also their greatest weakness. AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Monday, 29 November 1999, at 12:04 a.m. Response To: Hs'rs greatest strength is also their greatest weakness. Author: Esther...Hi, I'm new to this board Date: Sunday, 28 November 1999, at 11:15 p.m. Esther! What a charming post! I read it with a smile on my face the whole time through. You wrote: > Okay, look at it this way. What > is the mantra of hs'rs to beginners? > Let your hs'g reflect your child's learning > style. You know your child best. You > can create a totally personalized program > that is as flexible as your income, > or lifestyle can allow you to be. Very > True!!! > However, this makes us so exclusive > that it is difficult to find 2 hs'rs > who even use the same curriculum the > same way. (SNIP) > I don't > know a single other family who does > exactly what I do. Not One!! I'm my > own exclusive group! ;-) GOSH! Is this true or WHAT? I've seen my views about homeschooling evolve so much. When I first started I had this ridiculous idea of what homeschooling should be. My goodness, if anyone started out tense and nervous that would have definitely been ME! To read the whole horrible tale look to the left and click on DIGESTS FROM THE MONTHLY TOPIC BOARD and read the DESCHOOLING DIGEST. (By the way, all of those digests are simply wonderful and a tremendous resource of answers for whatever the problem may be... if you are suffering from burnout, go read those digests!) I went from being a nervous wreck to finding a very comfortable style. It was so comfortable, in fact, that I was sure it was "the right and only way" of homeschooling and I preached it far and wide to all who could hear--even if they didn't ask to hear it ;-) As I ventured out and met more homeschoolers (not online but here locally) I ran into all sorts of different families who were not doing it "the perfect way" and I was absolutely SHOCKED to see that it worked for them. GASP! Anyhow, my views on "what works" are changing yet again. But isn't that the great thing about this whole thing? If it gets boring, frustrating, unproductive you can change it, divide it, multiply it, expand it, reduce it... whatever. Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Loved your post! I also log our socialization.... AUTHOR: Paula R. DATE: Monday, 29 November 1999, at 7:55 a.m. Response To: Hs'rs greatest strength is also their greatest weakness. Author: Esther...Hi, I'm new to this board Date: Sunday, 28 November 1999, at 11:15 p.m. I laughed out loud when you wrote this... I do the same thing. I have a box in our lesson plan book that I label F.E.W.S.S. It's my acronym for field trips, errands, work, socialization, and service. If we watch the neighbor's pets while they are away, it get's logged. When we do yardwork, cook together, donate our time, visit a nature preserve, have a sleepover, go to a party....ALL logged! Sometimes I let my child do all the grocery shopping, from writing the list to selecting the items, to paying and loading the trunk. I just watch, and then I log it! He actually enjoys it!!! Not feeling quite so nuts now, thanks! Paula R. So I wait till my life goes crazy > and then take a week to pull it together. > Do a socialization field trip (I visit > my sister when this happens!!) And I > really do write it down as socialization. > I actually included this a a subject. > If anyone ever has to see a record on > this they will know it was addressed. > Isn't that the first question with regards > to hs'g? > Okay, that's the end of my opinion. > LOL Now you can all pick it apart! ;-) > > ======================================== MESSAGE: travel AUTHOR: Susan DATE: Monday, 29 November 1999, at 9:43 a.m. Hello! It's been a while since I posted because I took my sons on an extended trip. Two months and 12,000 miles start to finish. Not only was the entire trip great fun and tremendously educational, it gave me a completely new perspective, very freeing, and totally worth this high credit card balance that will take me quite a while to pay off! The point is--I believe that travel--the longer and farther away the better--cures burnout and serves as a marvelous substitute for school. My boys and I have seen and experienced and learned things that no "regular" schooler will likely do, and even lots of homeschoolers may miss because of "doing" school at home. Granted, we're a bit behind on math and grammar/writing, but who cares? We can catch up on that in the dead of winter, and in the blistering heat of summer--and save spring and fall for traveling! No crowds, off-season rates, best weather in most parts of the country. I shan't rave any longer, but encourage everyone to just get away--in a cheap motel, a camper, or a tent, whatever it takes, just hit the highway! ;-) happy camper mom ======================================== MESSAGE: Interest Based Learning AUTHOR: Rita DATE: Monday, 29 November 1999, at 10:49 a.m. Hi! This is our fourth year of homeschooling and we've found success in preventing burnout by combining the Moore formula of study, work and service into our homeschooling goals. As "grandparents" of homeschooling, I wanted to share their web address: http://www.moorefoundation.com We combine study with 4-H based on interest projects. In 4-H this year, our 15-year old daughter selected interest projects of child and family development, photography, clothing, vet science, youth leadership, dog project, showing her horse and horse training. By judges in the community and meeting deadlines (great for homeschoolers!) she earned three MN State Fair trips, a trip on her speech/demonstration to Quarter Horse Congress in Columbus, Ohio, five Donor awards, three county medals, and $l00 savings bond for her leadership. I've realized if I can help her locate projects of interest, our job, as parents, is to support her, and then "stay out of her way". In Mn, we have over 100 project areas of interest. 4-H is part of the University of Minnesota, so programs are based on University research about kids and learning. This is the 4-H link: http://www.4-h.org/ There is a US map that will direct you to your state. In Mn, you can be Independent (not belong to a 4-H Club), join a 4-H Club (visit several) or start your own 4-H Club. Because our goal is Post Secondary at a Community College next year (Junior), we have hired a math tutor so Lisa works on a regular basis with Scott Forsman math textbooks in Algebra and Geometry and Math Made Easy Algebra and work problems videos. Rita ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: travel AUTHOR: Sandi in VA DATE: Monday, 29 November 1999, at 9:48 p.m. Response To: travel Author: Susan Date: Monday, 29 November 1999, at 9:43 a.m. Can you tell us about your trip? Where did you go? How did you travel? Was it just you and your boys? Sounds wonderful! Sandi ======================================== MESSAGE: Help! I'm a MESS! AUTHOR: Anonymous DATE: Monday, 29 November 1999, at 11:34 p.m. I don't know that anyone can help. Do I sound down or what? This weekend we went to visit some relatives. One of the children there had a Gameboy. Well, my son (age 7) seems to change personalities when a Gameboy is around. He becomes angry, anxious, volatile. This is not a toy my son can have or play. At least not until he can learn to handle himself and have more self control. Hmmm... maybe never. I don't have any plans on buying one, that's for sure. But I don't understand why he reacts like this and it bothers me. And he wasn't even playing a violent game on it. I mean the Disney TARZAN game isn't violent!!!! What else? I'm also really concerned at the fact that this child seems to live in his own "bubble." He walks around in his own little world, unaware of people around him. People talk to him and he doesn't hear them. And it's not a hearing problem--I've already had it checked three times! It's lack of attention/interest in other people. He is daydreaming and thinking about something else half of the time and he just isn't aware of what is going on around him. He runs into people, walks in front of them and unless I manage to talk to him to "wake him up" he doesn't snap out of it. Before anyone suggests that he may have a neurological problem please be assured he doesn't. Well, I don't think he does. He is normal in every other way. He is actually a very smart child and once he grabs onto something he goes with it full force. He has a lot of interests and he is a pretty interesting little guy. But when it comes to social situations and tact and being considerate of others around him he is just so... I don't know..... spacey is the best I can describe it. So how can you fix something like that? I don't have a clue. I've talked with him and I point it out. He thinks about it but I'm not sure it registers permanently. It must be a maturity thing. My daughter isn't like this at all. She is sweet, considerate, polite and AWAKE! And as far as school... I am burned out and believe me I'm not at all the "school at home" type. I am pretty eclectic/unschoolish! The thought of placing my children in school has entered my mind a lot lately though. Not that I would actually go through with it but... (grin) I don't know. This is just such a big responsibility, such a tough undertaking. I look ahead and wonder if I can really do this. Now it's easy but later? My son needs to be challenged but he responds much, much better when it isn't ME who is doing the encouraging and the challenging. And you know? We have a great relationship! We really do! I'm just stumped. My gosh, why can't I be like all of the other mothers in this country? They place their children in school and they celebrate the event like it's some kind of coming of age thing. They don't think twice about it. But me? I just can't let it be. Sometimes I wish I didn't carry this huge burden for my children. Wouldn't it be a lot easier this way? ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Help! I'm a MESS! AUTHOR: Lee DATE: Tuesday, 30 November 1999, at 8:56 a.m. Response To: Help! I'm a MESS! Author: Anonymous Date: Monday, 29 November 1999, at 11:34 p.m. I've never seen a Gameboy so can't give an opinion on that but could it be that the game frustrates him? As for living in his own little world...you said he is bright..the wheels are probably turning in his little head all the time and he is so busy thinking, he just doesn't notice things around him. I have a son like that too. He's always thinking and *engineering* in his head. He doesn't hear what's going on either and he dislikes his thoughts being interrupted. I guess maybe I'm the same way because it's perfectly understandable to me. LOL If he's a thinker, I don't imagine you can change him and I'm not sure you should anyway. He will probably grow up to do great things. I know what you mean about getting tired of *school*..we all go through that from time to time. Just rest assured, the feeling will pass. It's tempting thinking of sending them off once in awhile but I just remind myself of how awful it was when they were in ps and how much worse the schools are now safety-wise and it snaps me back to reality. I really do love having them home most of the time. Hang in there! Give yourself a break and just do some holiday stuff. ======================================== MESSAGE: Sounds wonderful! AUTHOR: Lee DATE: Tuesday, 30 November 1999, at 9:09 a.m. Response To: travel Author: Susan Date: Monday, 29 November 1999, at 9:43 a.m. > Hello! It's been a while since > I posted because I took my sons on an > extended trip. Two months and 12,000 > miles start to finish. Not only was > the entire trip great fun and tremendously > educational, it gave me a completely > new perspective, very freeing, and totally > worth this high credit card balance > that will take me quite a while to pay > off! > The point is--I believe that travel--the > longer and farther away the better--cures > burnout and serves as a marvelous substitute > for school. My boys and I have seen > and experienced and learned things that > no "regular" schooler will > likely do, and even lots of homeschoolers > may miss because of "doing" > school at home. Granted, we're a bit > behind on math and grammar/writing, > but who cares? We can catch up on that > in the dead of winter, and in the blistering > heat of summer--and save spring and > fall for traveling! No crowds, off-season > rates, best weather in most parts of > the country. > I shan't rave any longer, but encourage > everyone to just get away--in a cheap > motel, a camper, or a tent, whatever > it takes, just hit the highway! > ;-) happy camper mom ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: travel AUTHOR: Susan DATE: Tuesday, 30 November 1999, at 9:11 a.m. Response To: Re: travel Author: Sandi in VA Date: Monday, 29 November 1999, at 9:48 p.m. Sandi-- Here's a quick rundown of the trip, or as quick as I can make it ;-) Mid-September, we headed from FLorida panhandle up to Blue Ridge Parkway where we spent an unexpected week waiting for Hurricane Floyd to move on. Had a grand time there; then onward to 3 days in Charlottesville. Highlight of that stay was Monticello--fabulous. Then to Cape Cod for a little over a week of museums, chowder eating, whale watching, Pilgrim Monument, and beach-testing, i.e., sampled as many beaches as we could. Loved it. Next, to coast of Maine for almost another week. Bought winter clothes at L.L.Bean, loved the coast and al the historic stuff there. One day in Acadia National Park, SO BEAUTIFUL. Then to Rochester to see friends a few days before a marathon trip across Canada to Calgary. (We crossed into Canada at Niagara Falls, wowie!). A couple or three nights at Lake Louise up in the Canadian Rockies, hikes around Banff National Park , then southward along the Rockies where we stopped for some terrific museums and parks(Head Smashed-in Buffalo Jump in south Alberta was a favorite; also Mesa Verde in Colorado and Chaco Canyon in New Mexico). A week in Santa Fe--museums, pueblos, adobe, great food. To Mt. Ida Arkansas to dig quartz crystals for a few more days, then homeward, stopping in Tupelo to see Elvis's birthplace. For all but two and a half weeks, it was me and my two sons; hubby joined us from Calgary to Santa Fe. We had a big van loaded up with too much stuff; I will pack much lighter in the future! A life-changing experience, highly recommended. Wanna see our snapshots? teehee ======================================== MESSAGE: Giovanna and Paula, how do you set up a log AUTHOR: Lee DATE: Tuesday, 30 November 1999, at 9:23 a.m. Response To: Loved your post! I also log our socialization.... Author: Paula R. Date: Monday, 29 November 1999, at 7:55 a.m. like that? I've been thinking of starting a log of some sort in order to prove to myself that something is actually getting done even though it doesn't feel like it. I haven't figured out yet just how it should be set up though. Any tips? ======================================== MESSAGE: Wow! This sounds so cool..wish we could afford it. nt AUTHOR: Lee DATE: Tuesday, 30 November 1999, at 9:31 a.m. Response To: Re: travel Author: Susan Date: Tuesday, 30 November 1999, at 9:11 a.m. > Sandi-- ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Wow! This sounds so cool..wish we could afford it. nt AUTHOR: Susan DATE: Tuesday, 30 November 1999, at 9:53 a.m. Response To: Wow! This sounds so cool..wish we could afford it. nt Author: Lee Date: Tuesday, 30 November 1999, at 9:31 a.m. Lee-- We couldn't really afford it either. No telling how long before I pay off a huge credit card balance. But I wouldn't trade that experience for anything. Totally worth going into debt for such an adventure. Changed my whole outlook, somehow made me appreciate EVERYTHING more, gave sense of strength, freedom, deep contentment, perspective. Also has made me put travel as a top budget priority where before, it was an afterthought that usually got nixed. Also it is a great feeling to know I can strike out as the only adult with two kids and go 12,000 miles okay, safe sound and happy. And the joy of knowing my kids are getting such incredible travel experiences so young. They will be seasoned travelers by the time they hit college, with the ability to scope out cool places to go and find ways to get there. Such a trip is worth cashing in an investment, going into debt, selling a luxury item, whatever t takes. Well that's my opinion and of course everyone's situation and priorities are different. Forgive my raving, I"m just high on life! ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Help! I'm a MESS! AUTHOR: Susan M DATE: Tuesday, 30 November 1999, at 11:06 a.m. Response To: Re: Help! I'm a MESS! Author: Lee Date: Tuesday, 30 November 1999, at 8:56 a.m. I > have a son like that too. He's always > thinking and *engineering* in his head. > He doesn't hear what's going on either > and he dislikes his thoughts being interrupted. Funny you should mention "engineering". Your description sounds a lot like my high school age son, who plans to major in, you guessed it, engineering, when he goes to college. This son is very intelligent, is always reading, working on the computer (he likes to program it), playing video games at times (which do, indeed, frustrate him). But he is definitely not a people person. I remember once, halfway through the year--when he was 10 or so--I asked him who his Sunday school teacher was, and he didn't know. After several months of Sunday school! That was typical, I am afraid. I can mention someone at church, and my younger son will be able to describe the person and recognize him on sight, while this son will just say, "Who's that?" It can be frustrating, but try to think of his good points and gently work on his weaknesses. We have spent a lot of time with this son, teaching how to be a friend, to look at people when they talk to you, etc. These are just not skills that come natural to him. As for the burnout, how about a Christmas break? Our family usually takes it easy with academics during the month of December and concentrates on Christmas--making presents and cookies, reading Christmas books and listening to music, writing a Christmas newsletter, learning about Christmas around the world and sampling foreign foods, etc. Maybe after the holidays, you could return to homeschooling with renewed enthusiasm. Susan M Susan M ======================================== MESSAGE: I use a very basic lesson plan book.... AUTHOR: Paula R. DATE: Tuesday, 30 November 1999, at 12:57 p.m. Response To: Giovanna and Paula, how do you set up a log Author: Lee Date: Tuesday, 30 November 1999, at 9:23 a.m. I found a simple, inexpensive, and very useful lesson plan book from R.O.C.K. Solid, called Teaching My Own. It has blank pages for notes, instructions for goal setting, and weekly lesson plan pages divided into boxes labeled...Language Arts, Math, Science, History, Occ. Ed.,(I also include P.E. here), Art/Music, and then a blank space for each day. I use the blank space for field trips, visits with friends, doctor visits, chores, errands, service to others, conversations with various people from the community. For instance, my son had a million questions for his Optomitrist (sp?). He wanted to know about every machine, and every step of the eye exam. The doctor spent nearly 20 minutes chatting with him, so I wrote it down! Best of all, it becomes a journal of our homeschool year. I can look over our log from two years ago and it brings back many happy memories. (You could also use an assignment notebook designed for a middle/highschool student...) Hope this helps. I've included the link to R.O.C.K Solid for you, if you're interested. Paula R. I've be en thinking of > starting a log of some sort in order > to prove to myself that something is > actually getting done even though it > doesn't feel like it. I haven't figured > out yet just how it should be set up > though. Any tips? > ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Wow! This sounds so cool..wish we could afford it. nt AUTHOR: Lee DATE: Tuesday, 30 November 1999, at 6:58 p.m. Response To: Re: Wow! This sounds so cool..wish we could afford it. nt Author: Susan Date: Tuesday, 30 November 1999, at 9:53 a.m. You are definitely enthusiastic about it, that's for sure! : ) Wouldn't take much to convince me to try it. I do regret that we haven't been able to do much travelling with our kids. My dd and I did drive about 1600 miles round trip in August and it was fun....wish the rest had gone with us. My son has taken a couple trips to New England with my brother and I would LOVE to take all my kids up there. There are so many historical sites and interesting places..especially the rock bound coast of Maine that I would like them to see. After reading your posts, I'm ready to try and figure out a way to do it. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Giovanna and Paula, how do you set up a log AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Tuesday, 30 November 1999, at 8:12 p.m. Response To: Giovanna and Paula, how do you set up a log Author: Lee Date: Tuesday, 30 November 1999, at 9:23 a.m. > like that? I've been thinking of > starting a log of some sort in order > to prove to myself that something is > actually getting done even though it > doesn't feel like it. This is a great way to ease your feelings about what you are doing. I find that when I have kept a good log I actually end up surprised at how much we really do! I've maintained two logs in my life as a homeschooler. In Florida we don't have required subjects or hours but we do have to keep record of materials used. Last year I simply used a spiral notebook. Each page was one day and I wrote a summary of what we did. The notebook was 180 pages (which is the "traditional" school year) so at the end of the notebook I was finished for the "year." This year I'm doing it differently. I got a homeschoolers plan book... (look in the Elijah Co catalog for a variety of these) and I am keeping a log that way. Why the change? It is my attempt at being a little more thorough because next year I'm going to have to keep a log for two children instead of just one. I try to keep my notes simple. I write down the book, pages done, I include videos we may have watched, tv shows, field trips, cd-roms we've played....everything that can be labeled as "educational" I write down. I don't write too much... just the bear facts. I'm also trying to get into the habit of writing down a weekly summary. I don't write down what I have already written down on the daily log. I write about insights my son has picked up, new things he has learned. In other words I expand on what he did that week. It works for me! I'm not sure that anyone would want to go into all of this trouble but I assure you that with a learning log like this you could never say to yourself that your "children didn't learn anything this year." :-) Giovanna ======================================== MESSAGE: Lee, I don't get very fancy..... AUTHOR: Esther...from Sidetracks DATE: Tuesday, 30 November 1999, at 8:28 p.m. Response To: Giovanna and Paula, how do you set up a log Author: Lee Date: Tuesday, 30 November 1999, at 9:23 a.m. I just bought a spiral bound book...half size, 200 pages. I write the date at the top, then write down the info as we go along. No planning ahead of time. I used to use something with squares, but kept running out of room...anyway, this works for me. I also don't see all the blank squares if I skip a subject for a day. At the bottome of the page I'll make a note re their hockey game, or visit with cousins in ..... eg. field trip to the vet with the dogs for their shots. Asked question re preserved dog heart with heart worm. It doesn't get any simpler. ;-) Hope this helps. > like that? I've been thinking of > starting a log of some sort in order > to prove to myself that something is > actually getting done even though it > doesn't feel like it. I haven't figured > out yet just how it should be set up > though. Any tips? > ======================================== MESSAGE: Writing skills AUTHOR: Denise DATE: Tuesday, 30 November 1999, at 11:53 p.m. My biggest source of (self-imposed) burnout: I read all of these wonderful ideas about narration, summarizing, etc. but my 10yo son struggles to express himself coherently on paper. We go through our grammar book and he can complete the exercises easily. I allow him to "freewrite" as well. However, when he attempts to put his thoughts to paper in a formal fashion, the results are usually unpunctuated, grammatically incorrect and unclear. His sister has a much easier time of it, and she seems to resent the amount of compensatory time we spend working orally with her brother. She wants to write book reports!!!!! HELP. ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Writing skills AUTHOR: Giovanna DATE: Wednesday, 1 December 1999, at 12:09 a.m. Response To: Writing skills Author: Denise Date: Tuesday, 30 November 1999, at 11:53 p.m. Have you read the WRITING WITHOUT TEARS digest? It's wonderful! One of the better topic discussions we've had, in my opinion. To get there look at the links in the yellow bar and click on DISGESTS FROM THE MONTHLY TOPIC BOARD. Today is the last day of November and our current topic will end tonight or sometime tomorrow morning. You may want to post your concerns over at the MAIN BOARD so that you can get feed back. After reading your post my first inclination is to tell you that your son will probably blossom in this area in his own time. I know, probably not what you wanted to hear, right? But let's be honest here, what can you do that you are not already doing? >From what you have said it sounds like you've tried to address this issue from different angles. This is good. Personally speaking, writing did not "click" with me until I was a junior in high school. Sadly but true. Your son is probably excelling in other areas and writing may not ever be one of his best points. No matter though... he should still be able to write using correct punctuation. I hear you! Continue to work with him He will get it eventually. What I'm noticing with my children is that no matter how creative I get in trying to "teach" something I am never able to speed the process or make them assimilate anything they are not ready to assimilate. Actually, what I've learned is that I've gotten in the way of their progress many times because I've tried to "Teach" too hard! Hang in There! ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Wow! This sounds so cool..wish we could afford it. nt AUTHOR: Susan DATE: Wednesday, 1 December 1999, at 7:56 a.m. Response To: Re: Wow! This sounds so cool..wish we could afford it. nt Author: Lee Date: Tuesday, 30 November 1999, at 6:58 p.m. Go for it! The East Coast is so historically rich with European-American history, US political and gov't history etc. Cape Cod is a dream, along with Maine's coast. If money is an issue, camping is a great way to travel, but I found I couldn't do the camping thing AND do the tour guide/sightseeing role with me as the only adult. Too much schlepping, not enough hours in a day. I think it could be done with two adults and my two kids though--wanna try that sometime. If you ever want to venture out of European heritage type American history, the Rockies are packed with fascinating and lesser-known (were to me anyway) places to visit and see ruins of pre-Columbian civilzations--as significant as Mexico's Mayan ruins IMHO. So glad my travel fever is somewhat contagious ;-) ======================================== MESSAGE: Re: Writing skills AUTHOR: Susan DATE: Wednesday, 1 December 1999, at 8:03 a.m. Response To: Writing skills Author: Denise Date: Tuesday, 30 November 1999, at 11:53 p.m. Denise, I have similar trouble with my 10yos, and it's hard to understand sometimes because it seems I was born knowing good grammar and punctuation--all those things came as naturally to me as swimming to a duck. Raising boys is different. They mature at a different rate and in different ways than girls, and across the board (in my experience and hearing from other moms and teachers), they also tend to develop verbal skills later than girls. This might be in spoken and/or written communication. I agree, my kids don't seem to learn anything they're not ready for, and when they are ready for it, wham, they get it so fast and easy. "Teaching too hard" seems to frustrate us all and get in the way of learning what they are ready for. Well that's how it is at our house anyway. Best of luck! BTW--have you looked into computer programs that might help? I'm not up on the latest but perhaps there is some "interactive" software that could help, and would take you one remove from the process so he could work independently and dd wouldn't feel jealous? ========================================End of digest Back to the TopBack to the Digest Index