Digests from the KALEIDOSCAPES MONTHLY TOPIC
(HOMESCHOOLING) DISCUSSION BOARD


These are the original digests from Kaleidoscapes' MONTHLY TOPIC discussion boards.
They were hosted by two amazing gals, Giovanna Gomez and Cerelle Woods Simmons.
The boards are no longer available (thus, links to them won't work); you can, however, still
find many of the same wonderful folks who posted on the boards at Network 54.
Finally, there are no banners or pop-up ads throughout these digests.
Hopefully you will consider shopping through our Amazon links occasionally.
(Thanks!)

Back to the Digest Index


Homeschool 911 (part 1)


              ========================================

     MESSAGE:  WELCOME TO "HOMESCHOOL 911"
      AUTHOR:  Giovanna
        DATE:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 12:34 a.m.



It's November! By now most of you are well on your way into the "school
year." Hopefully everything is going well. Chances are though that
if something isn't going well you are, by now, very aware of it.

Let's talk about it.

Giovanna :-)


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: WELCOME TO "HOMESCHOOL 911"
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 9:28 a.m.

 Response To:  WELCOME TO "HOMESCHOOL 911"
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 12:34 a.m.



If you've been homeschooling for a while now, you may have noticed
that sometimes everything goes along smoothly and then sometimes you
hit a snag.

Maybe this sounds familiar: Most of the time there's electricity in
the air at your house -- you and the kids usually stay excited about
learning -- but suddenly you find yourself in the doldrums with all
your sails collapsed. What happened? How do you find your way back
to that exciting place you can only dimly remember now?

What we want to do this month is help you breathe some life back into
your homeschool!

If you're not currently discouraged -- but you've been there and done
that -- then PLEASE stick around to give some of your fellow home
educators a helping hand, OK? You might know the very words that will
bring hope back into someone's heart.

Looking forward to an illuminating discussion...

Cerelle

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Burnout?
      AUTHOR:  Lynne
        DATE:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 10:18 a.m.



Unschool.

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  OK, but...
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 10:58 a.m.

 Response To:  Burnout?
      Author:  Lynne
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 10:18 a.m.



Even unschoolers are capable of feeling a little dimmed and dull sometimes...as
if someone had shaken off their fairy dust.

It is true, though, that unschooling can be a wonderful remedy for
the weary family who has been doing hours and hours of workbook insanity
every day. And in fact, CHANGING WHAT YOU'RE DOING NOW is almost always
a good idea if things don't seem to be working.

Cerelle


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  What can I do? (very long)
      AUTHOR:  Theresa
        DATE:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 1:37 p.m.



This has been a very hard homeschool year for us so far, and I am
completely open for suggestions. I am five months pregnant with our
fifth child (we have children 12, 8, 4, and 2). Two months ago, I
found out that my mother has terminal lung cancer. It is very advanced,
and things do not look good. She lives almost 400 miles away, so I've
only been able to make two trips up to help out. My mother-in-law
watched my children for me for a week the last time I went. I am very
grateful for her help, but I can't ask her to do it again. We are
all completely emotionally drained. My children and I are very close
to my mother, and losing her is not going to be easy. This is my question.
How can I possibly keep up? I am trying to unschool, but I'm worried
about how much they are learning. I saw Cafi at the conference in
Orlando in May and was very motivated. But trying to keep everyone
in good, educational activities is wearing me out. We live 45 miles
from a large city, and there are not a lot of opportunities nearby.
Right now, we have Brownies on Monday night and AWANA on Wednesday
night. We also have the two oldest in horseback riding lessons two
mornings each week. And for the next six weeks, all except the two
year old have Christmas play practice another hour and a half on Sunday
nights before church. My twelve year old wants desperately to volunteer
at the Children's Museum. I want him to also, but it is an hour away,
and it wouldn't be feasible for me to bring everyone back home just
to turn around and make the trip again to pick him up. My two year
old is always sick. Already this year, he has had Croup, and then
Bronchitis and Pneumonia together. We have him at the doctor (an hour
away) at least a couple time each month. And I'm really afraid to
get him out in public because he catches everything that is going
around. I need to be doing some kind of math activities with them
each day, but that isn't always happening. And I would love to have
some time at home when I don't have to worry about getting everyone
ready to go out. This really isn't a whine. I would just appreciate
any suggestions on how I can keep my head above the water right now.
Thanks for reading this, and thanks again for any ideas you may have.

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  SIMPLIFY! This is no time to be supermom!
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 2:30 p.m.

 Response To:  What can I do? (very long)
      Author:  Theresa
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 1:37 p.m.



Theresa, I'm surprised you're even ATTEMPTING to do all the things
you're doing in the face of all the pressures in your life right now.
I guarantee you're trying to do too much.

I don't know what kind of time frame you're looking at with your mother's
illness, but I think this is definitely NOT the time to worry about
how much the kids are learning, academically. One of the real advantages
of homeschooling (especially unschooling), in my opinion, is that
it enables families to take time out for emergencies. Your mother's
terminal illness is just such an emergency, and the birth of your
new baby will be, too. Being with your mom as much as you can right
now is going to be important for all of you. If your children don't
learn to divide fractions (let's say) this year, there will be plenty
of time for that later.

My kids have all been in Christmas play rehearsals before (for several
years in a row, in fact), and I know what that's like. Grueling! I
don't think we even attempted to do much else during those weeks!
(And I wasn't even pregnant then.) L-o-w-e-r your expectations. There's
only one of you to go around, and you can't afford to wear yourself
out.

A few months ago, our topic was "Living with Children, 24/7" and I
remember a really good discussion from that month about running kids
around all over the place vs. spending more time at home. I recommend
that digest for you right now (see the link, "Digests from the Monthly
Topic Board" near the top of the yellow bar at the left of your screen).
Sometimes it's a good idea to get everyone out of the house, but sometimes
it's important to make peace with staying home. With a sick 2-year-old,
I'd want to stay home as much as I could (unless it might be something
in the house that's making him sick, but I assume you've already looked
into that).

With as many stressors as you have in your life right now, I can't
emphasize how strongly I feel that it's time to let some things GO.
Drop the things that wear you out and keep the activities that make
you feel rejuvenated. If that's reading aloud to the kids, then by
all means, let that be the core of your educational leadership right
now. "Trying to keep everyone in good, educational activities" doesn't
have to mean taking them places every day or planning interesting
things for them to do. It can also mean having plenty of good books
on hand and perhaps a magnifying glass for each child -- so they can
see the world from a fascinating new perspective!

Please let us know how things are going for you!

Cerelle

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Rescued
      AUTHOR:  Brenda In Ohio
        DATE:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 4:08 p.m.



We have been homeschooling for about 5 years. I do not belong to a
support group because I really don't have time. So...until I found
Kaleidoscapes about 8 or 9 months ago, I really didn't get any feedback
or alternatives. We were trying to do school at home, which is extremely
difficult, particularly since I am single and work full time days
at a very demanding job. My son did well on standardized testing,
so I guess we were doing something right. As I read the discussions
about unschooling, I gradually found liberation from the drudgery
of homeschooling. These are the changes that I have made that have
put the JOY back into homeschooling:

If you don't like your curriculum, get rid of it. There are too many
fascinating things to study and ways to study them to waste time on
the boring. WOW! Was this ever exciting to discover!

Don't make lesson plans way ahead of time. I was a slave to mine,
and of course things would come up to get us off course. Now I have
a general outline for several months ahead, but only make the lesson
plan for 2 weeks at a time. If we get off course, it's easy to adjust.

Don't take long periods of time off, like the whole summer. It takes
too long to review. If we are going to take off more than a few days,
we use fast and easy worksheets (from RHLSchool) to maintain basic
skills.

And most liberating of all, my kid does not have to follow the usual
scope and sequence because we homeschool!! The only set curriculum
we use is Math (Saxon 1/2) and Science (AlphaOmega LifePac 800). We
proceed through them at our own pace. My son has difficulty with writing,
so we remediate by dictation. (I learned about it on Kaleidoscapes.)

We are really enjoying this year! Good luck to you all.

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: What can I do? (very long)
      AUTHOR:  lizza
        DATE:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 4:44 p.m.

 Response To:  What can I do? (very long)
      Author:  Theresa
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 1:37 p.m.



Just a thought why don't you get the older kids involved taking control
of the math activity if you feel so strongly that it should be done
each day. Get a few good math games (we have ordered a few from a
catalogue) and let the 12 year old be in charge...while the 12 year
old may not learn much new math they will be reinforcing what they
do know. This would give you some time to relax(if there is such a
thing for a mom) or spend time with your two year old. Mind you take
my advice with a grain of salt as I do not yet have a 12 year old
so am not sure what they are capable of.

>

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  suggestions for math burnout?
      AUTHOR:  Jannarama
        DATE:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 4:53 p.m.



Howdy--I like the 'burnout' topic because I'm going through it w/
my 11 y.o. daughter and math right now. She was in public school and
used Saxon Math. She does really well in math--better than *I* ever
would!!

However, she really really hates doing math. She's been using Saxon
Algebra 1/2 and does 15 problems each day--odds on one day, evens
on the next. If she NEVER did another problem, she'd be happy.

So I'm looking for suggestions to an alternative to the typical math
problems in a book. Are there any computer programs out there that
would get the theories of algebra across to her without driving her
to boredom? What other math curricula is out there besides Saxon?

Thanks for any suggestions,

c-ya, Jannarama

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: What can I do? (very long)
      AUTHOR:  Brenda In Ohio
        DATE:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 4:55 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: What can I do? (very long)
      Author:  lizza
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 4:44 p.m.



I think it is a great idea to share the responsibility with the kids.
Maybe you can talk to them and share your concerns and needs. Ask
the kids what resposibilities they would be willing to take on at
this very difficult time in your lives. I think they will be glad
to help you, and feel like they are contributing something important
to the family. Best wishes to you and your family. I can only imagine
how tough things are.


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: What can I do? (very long)
      AUTHOR:  Diana
        DATE:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 7:00 p.m.

 Response To:  What can I do? (very long)
      Author:  Theresa
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 1:37 p.m.



We faced a similar situation last year. My father-in-law was dying
of colon cancer, and I was about to have major knee surgery. (They
thought at the time that they were going to need to rebuild my knee
with bone from my hip.)

It was hard for me to not have the kids in their usual list of activities,
but we did cut back dramatically. They both learned a tremendous amount
about how to do things around the house. They were able to be with
their grandfather up until the end.

It was so wonderful to be homeschooling and not worrying about what
school stuff they were missing. We took books around with us everywhere
and read whenever possible. At the end of the year I asked them what
they had learned this year, and I was amazed at what all they said.
They had managed to get a few academic type things, but mostly they
learned about what is really important. How families work (or don't
work) during a crisis, and how to help their family or others through
rough times.

I highly recommend focusing on what is happening in your lives, making
sure there are a variety of books and games available, and letting
the kids learn about real life in a family. It is something they could
never learn in school!

And next year, if you want, you can jump back in with both feet. We
have this year, and no one is really behind in anything.

Diana


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: suggestions for math burnout?
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 7:41 p.m.

 Response To:  suggestions for math burnout?
      Author:  Jannarama
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 4:53 p.m.



The way I solved our Saxon dilemma was to sell the dang book and never
look back, but Cafi Cohen (a link to her website is at left, on the
yellow bar) recommends a more moderate solution: alternating a week
of Saxon with a week of real-life math.

I'm going to hope that someone with a lot of math savvy will come
to your aid. Meanwhile, my .02 is that I'm a huge believer in logic
problems, GAMES Magazine, and the like. The ability to understand
and do well in algebra is a by-product (in my opinion) of the ability
to think in the abstract. So working logic problems or doing other
kinds of mental gymnastics counts in my book (and in my journals!)
as a math activity.

Cerelle

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: What can I do? (very long)
      AUTHOR:  Giovanna
        DATE:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 8:29 p.m.

 Response To:  What can I do? (very long)
      Author:  Theresa
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 1:37 p.m.



HI THERESA!

I read your letter and I GOT EXHAUSTED! :-)

I agree with everyone who has posted to simplify your life and I wanted
to reiterate how important it is to keep things on a minimum right
now.

I've shared this before on other topics we have done but let me share
it again. Our life is very much like the seasons in the year. There
will be times when you will have energy and the all of the time in
the world to take your children on outings and have them involved
in outside activities. The time for that IS NOT right now.

Please do yourself and the children a favor and STAY HOME. Read books
aloud to your children and if time permits do some math. Your mom
won't be with you much longer. :-( Spend time with her. Tell your
twelve year old to wait one more year to volunteer at the children's
museum. Keep going to AWANAS if you want but don't do anything else.

You know, you may be surprised at how much your children may enjoy
this time off from these activities. Do you live in Florida? You know,
in Florida you can grow vegetables year round. Work on a garden. Work
on productive projects AT HOME. You might be surprised at how much
learning can take place!

Giovanna

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  UNSCHOOLING
      AUTHOR:  SUSAN
        DATE:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 9:49 p.m.



THIS MAY SOUND LIKE A REALLY STUPID QUESTION, BUT WHAT IS "UNSCHOOLING?'
THIS IS OUR SECOND YEAR OF HS AND I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF IT!! HOW DO
YOU KEEP GRADES ETC. ?

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: UNSCHOOLING
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 10:01 p.m.

 Response To:  UNSCHOOLING
      Author:  SUSAN
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 9:49 p.m.



Hi, Susan! It's not a stupid question...most people are a little mystified
the first time they hear the word. :-)

Here's a short answer: "Unschooling" is a style of education that
emphasizes learning but de-emphasizes the traditional trappings of
the classroom.

For a longer discussion of what unschooling and it's close cousin,
deschooling, are all about, read the "Deschooling" digests at the
following link:

http://www.meglomedia.net/digests/

And please don't ever be afraid to ask a question here!

Cerelle

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: UNSCHOOLING
      AUTHOR:  SUSAN
        DATE:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 10:42 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: UNSCHOOLING
      Author:  Cerelle
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 10:01 p.m.



> Hi, Susan! It's not a stupid question...most
> people are a little mystified the first
> time they hear the word. :-)

> Here's a short answer: "Unschooling"
> is a style of education that emphasizes
> learning but de-emphasizes the traditional
> trappings of the classroom.

> For a longer discussion of what
> unschooling and it's close cousin, deschooling,
> are all about, read the "Deschooling"
> digests at the following link:

> http://www.meglomedia.net/digests/
>

> And please don't ever be afraid
> to ask a question here!

> Cerelle THANK YOU SO MUCH CERELLE!! THIS METHOD SOUNDS GREAT!!!
IT IS SOMETHING I AM DEFINATELY GOING TO CHECK INTO. I JUST WANTED
TO SAY ALSO THAT EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD IS SO FRIENDLY & HELPFUL.
ESPECIALLY TO THOSE OF US WHO ARE JUST STARTING OUT. THANK YOU ALL
SO MUCH, YOU DON'T KNOW HOW COMFORTING THAT IS TO KNOW THAT SOMEONE
ELSE HAS BEEN WHERE WE ARE TODAY & THAT WE CAN COME HERE FOR HELP
AND GUIDANCE ANY TIME!!!!!!!!!:-)

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: I definetly agree.... time to cut back...(long)
      AUTHOR:  annie
        DATE:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 2:38 a.m.

 Response To:  SIMPLIFY! This is no time to be supermom!
      Author:  Cerelle
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 2:30 p.m.



... The time constraints on your Mom's life may need to be your timetable
right now...it is a very good time for your family to talk about the
difficulties of dealing with terminal illness, to learn about the
more complex dynamics of extended family, a good chance for the kids
to study family genealogy and history by 'interviewing' her, a good
time for them to consider the priorities and assess what they can
do to make her remaining life better and find ways to carry her into
their futures in memory and lessons learned, I'm banking that as important
as their regular activities are to them, Grandmother will win the
vote for attention focus.

As for the schooling, they will be gaining insight and empathy that
far outweigh the times-tables...LOL, and they will not regress to
imbicility, I guarrantee.

I will paste the burnout FAQ from my Sassafrass Grove pages here,
because the pages are currently going haywire due to the recent change
in ad policy at Angelfire, and the subsequent screw-up of my frames
pages display...it's easier to cut and paste...

"O.K. First, here's a tissue, let go a little...there...cup of tea?
Sit down a minute and let's talk. I've been there too.

Many people find themselves stressed out and ready to throw in the
towel at some point in just about every homeschooling career. You
may feel depressed - it's easy to get that way when the house is a
mess, the schooling isn't going particularly well, or you're not getting
positive feedback from your spouse, family or church.

I know how frustrating it can be...my house is more a haven for dust-dwellers
than an ad for Good Housekeeping. You will find this is true of a
lot of homeschoolers. I've gotten to where I can look at the cobwebs
without a flinch (though I'm not particularly proud of that..8^}..)
And the expressions on the faces of my kids and I at "school time"
are not always happy ones. When the tears start, it's time to stop
and take a deep breath.

I know it may sound like 'giving in', but if you can take a month
off...(not just plod through another month of not doing what you think
you should, mind you - actually schedule, plan and take a whole month
off from schooling)... you will likely see a big difference in all
your attitudes. We did that this past year, and it did a great deal
to ease the stress.

We spent one week doing targeted clean up of the house so that we
all felt better about the place we live, sleep, eat, and play. We
did about two weeks of just stay-around-home fun stuff ...went out
and played in the yard...(all of us, mom too)...we visited the library
a lot, read a whole lot of books, rented and watched (and discussed
- though not "officially") a lot of good movies (and a couple of lousey
ones), and then did some visiting we had been putting off (because
we "needed to do school"), and generally enjoyed ourselves while setting
the stage for a happier, more comfortable and easier time when we
re-opened school the following month. We were all much more relaxed.

It is amazing what an attitude adjustment you can get from it, and
how much better you all feel about reestablishing a routine for schooling
after that month. You might even find, like we did, that we really
saw more education happening during that 'break' than we had been
seeing the month before during the rough times. We eased up some on
the scheduling and requirements when we started school again, and
the stress levels (if not the dust levels) are still down, while the
learning is right up where we want it. Try it! Your kids won't turn
into dullards or forget everything in that month, and the light that
comes back into all your eyes will be worth it.

Care for another cup of tea?"

Hang in there...spend what time you have with your Mom and may the
new baby renew life for all of you...our hearts are with you all...

annie

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  The " I Can't Do This!" feeling...
      AUTHOR:  annie
        DATE:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 2:45 a.m.



Here's my answer, from Sassafrass Grove Homeschooling, to the Burnout
situation:

"HELP! I'm Ready To Quit!"

"O.K. First, here's a tissue, let go a little...there...cup of tea?
Sit down a minute and let's talk. I've been there too.

Many people find themselves stressed out and ready to throw in the
towel at some point in just about every homeschooling career. You
may feel depressed - it's easy to get that way when the house is a
mess, the schooling isn't going particularly well, or you're not getting
positive feedback from your spouse, family or church.

I know how frustrating it can be...my house is more a haven for dust-dwellers
than an ad for Good Housekeeping. You will find this is true of a
lot of homeschoolers. I've gotten to where I can look at the cobwebs
without a flinch (though I'm not particularly proud of that..8^}..)
And the expressions on the faces of my kids and I at "school time"
are not always happy ones. When the tears start, it's time to stop
and take a deep breath.

I know it may sound like 'giving in', but if you can take a month
off...(not just plod through another month of not doing what you think
you should, mind you - actually schedule, plan and take a whole month
off from schooling)... you will likely see a big difference in all
your attitudes. We did that this past year, and it did a great deal
to ease the stress.

We spent one week doing targeted clean up of the house so that we
all felt better about the place we live, sleep, eat, and play. We
did about two weeks of just stay-around-home fun stuff ...went out
and played in the yard...(all of us, mom too)...we visited the library
a lot, read a whole lot of books, rented and watched (and discussed
- though not "officially") a lot of good movies (and a couple of lousey
ones), and then did some visiting we had been putting off (because
we "needed to do school"), and generally enjoyed ourselves while setting
the stage for a happier, more comfortable and easier time when we
re-opened school the following month. We were all much more relaxed.

It is amazing what an attitude adjustment you can get from it, and
how much better you all feel about reestablishing a routine for schooling
after that month. You might even find, like we did, that we really
saw more education happening during that 'break' than we had been
seeing the month before during the rough times. We eased up some on
the scheduling and requirements when we started school again, and
the stress levels (if not the dust levels) are still down, while the
learning is right up where we want it. Try it! Your kids won't turn
into dullards or forget everything in that month, and the light that
comes back into all your eyes will be worth it.

Care for another cup of tea?"

We keep this option open at our house...it worked so well though,
that we aren't feeling the need...

Hope this helps someone, annie


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: some suggestions for math burnout...
      AUTHOR:  annie
        DATE:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 2:59 a.m.

 Response To:  Re: suggestions for math burnout?
      Author:  Cerelle
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 7:41 p.m.



again, I will cut and paste from Sassafrass Grove FAQ Page(the frames
pages are going nuts with the new host ads, and I'm on the brink of
following ..LOL)...although your daughter may sound like she should
be past this, I certainly found it helpful with my kids:

"HELP! My Kid HATES Math!"

"O.K...Sit down a minute and let's talk...there...cup of tea? I've
been there too.

... some kids just have some trouble getting a grip on math and some
of its concepts.

First, I suggest reading The Three Barriers to Study And How To Overcome
Them - a great little booklet that helps you *and* your kids understand
what happens to make learning a chore *and* how to get back in the
swing. I printed it out, punched the margins and tied it with a shoelace.
They enjoyed reading it themselves and could sure relate to what is
said. I learned a lot about how they learn and how I must teach from
it too.

I read a lot of Valder Learning Systems stuff on teaching math, and
went back to square one with them, as she suggested, then we worked
on making sure that the basic concepts were grasped, with no onus
at all if it took a while (I had to learn to leave my exasperated
face in the closet for a while 'til I didn't need it so much anymore...LOL).

Now, I use the Mathmatics Worksheet Factory (you can download their
Lite version as freeware from Softseek.com) to print out daily practice
sheets (note - "practice" seems a lot more palatable to them than
"study" here), and Key Curriculum Press Key to Algebra and Fractions
workbooks.

There is very little whining now, from them or me... 8^)"

I hope this helps! annie

The link below is for the regular Math Page at Sassafrass Grove, since
it is not frames, it should still be working fine.

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: What can I do? (very long)
      AUTHOR:  vicki in nc
        DATE:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 7:42 a.m.

 Response To:  Re: What can I do? (very long)
      Author:  lizza
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 4:44 p.m.



It's really wonderful to have such a supportive group of people full
of ideas. My prayers are with you and your family for your mom. What's
interesting about all of the suggestions is that they are all a reminder
that homeschooling is not only about school. When veteran homeschoolers
say to me "It's a lifestyle." I can see how your situation now would
show that. Your mom is much more important right now, than whether
the children "have school." I like the idea about getting them involved
in learning about your mom and your family. Also it is a good time
for them to begin to learn about other's needs including yours. I
tend to try to meet everybody's needs in my house from laundry to
drying a crying eye. It's time for you to let them see you as a daughter
who cares about her mom. I also like the idea of taking a break from
school. In our state we go 180 days. There are 365 days a year, so
really you can change you schedule and go year round this year , or
only do school a couple of weekdays and throw in a weekend .Getting
the older kids to help each other is also good.Instead of helping
out at the "museum", your son can see that helping at home now is
more important. It will probably be a disappointment to him , but
he has time for the museum later. vicki in nc

Just a thought why don't you get
> the older kids involved taking control
> of the math activity if you feel so
> strongly that it should be done each
> day. Get a few good math games (we have
> ordered a few from a catalogue) and
> let the 12 year old be in charge...while
> the 12 year old may not learn much new
> math they will be reinforcing what they
> do know. This would give you some time
> to relax(if there is such a thing for
> a mom) or spend time with your two year
> old. Mind you take my advice with a
> grain of salt as I do not yet have a
> 12 year old so am not sure what they
> are capable of.

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  And schedule a rest time for EVERONE while the 2 yr.
old naps? (NT)
      AUTHOR:  Kathy in CT
        DATE:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 8:24 a.m.

 Response To:  What can I do? (very long)
      Author:  Theresa
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 1:37 p.m.



> This has been a very hard homeschool
> year for us so far, and I am completely
> open for suggestions. I am five months
> pregnant with our fifth child (we have
> children 12, 8, 4, and 2). Two months
> ago, I found out that my mother has
> terminal lung cancer. It is very advanced,
> and things do not look good. She lives
> almost 400 miles away, so I've only
> been able to make two trips up to help
> out. My mother-in-law watched my children
> for me for a week the last time I went.
> I am very grateful for her help, but
> I can't ask her to do it again. We are
> all completely emotionally drained.
> My children and I are very close to
> my mother, and losing her is not going
> to be easy. This is my question. How
> can I possibly keep up? I am trying
> to unschool, but I'm worried about how
> much they are learning. I saw Cafi at
> the conference in Orlando in May and
> was very motivated. But trying to keep
> everyone in good, educational activities
> is wearing me out. We live 45 miles
> from a large city, and there are not
> a lot of opportunities nearby. Right
> now, we have Brownies on Monday night
> and AWANA on Wednesday night. We also
> have the two oldest in horseback riding
> lessons two mornings each week. And
> for the next six weeks, all except the
> two year old have Christmas play practice
> another hour and a half on Sunday nights
> before church. My twelve year old wants
> desperately to volunteer at the Children's
> Museum. I want him to also, but it is
> an hour away, and it wouldn't be feasible
> for me to bring everyone back home just
> to turn around and make the trip again
> to pick him up. My two year old is always
> sick. Already this year, he has had
> Croup, and then Bronchitis and Pneumonia
> together. We have him at the doctor
> (an hour away) at least a couple time
> each month. And I'm really afraid to
> get him out in public because he catches
> everything that is going around. I need
> to be doing some kind of math activities
> with them each day, but that isn't always
> happening. And I would love to have
> some time at home when I don't have
> to worry about getting everyone ready
> to go out. This really isn't a whine.
> I would just appreciate any suggestions
> on how I can keep my head above the
> water right now. Thanks for reading
> this, and thanks again for any ideas
> you may have.

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Change your priorities for now...
      AUTHOR:  Dawne
        DATE:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 10:55 a.m.

 Response To:  What can I do? (very long)
      Author:  Theresa
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 1:37 p.m.



> This has been a very hard homeschool
> year for us so far, and I am completely
> open for suggestions. I am five months
> pregnant with our fifth child (we have
> children 12, 8, 4, and 2).

Why not try and pair up the older two? They can play math games, create
a boat out of an old box, run in the backyard together or possibly
even bake cookies now and again [our fav. way to do fractions]. Maybe
the younger two could build legos together or blocks. Even coloring
if possible [my 2 yog writes on walls if I'm not there].

Two months ago, I found out that my mother has
> terminal lung cancer. It is very advanced,
> and things do not look good. She lives almost 400 miles away, so
I've only been able to make two trips up to help out. My mother-in-law
watched my children for me for a week the last time I went. I am very
grateful for her help, but
> I can't ask her to do it again.

Here is priority number one. Do what you can for mom but make sure
hubby is there when you want to cry or scream. Are you saying that
you can NOT ask your m-i-l or that you really don't want to? If your
relationship with her is good I would probably ask again. At least
one more time before your baby is born.

You know, your kids will be learning VERY important lessons in the
months to come. They'll see the circle of life come full circle. They'll
know grief, anger and joy. It'll be a roller coaster but there is
no way to avoid that. You can minimize the bumps by cutting back on
what you think you "ought" to do right now.

The idea of finding out about family history is truly excellent. The
kids could create something [like a book] for the coming child. A
way to make your mom a grandmom to that child rather than an abstract
notion. Family stories, recipes, holiday traditions. All of those
things can be written down and preserved. Have your kids write letters
to her. Take dictation if need be. If they get letters back they will
treasure them forever. That is a lot of writing right there.

We are all completely emotionally drained.

I can imagine. Just your post has me feeling very exhausted. I admire
your effort and your spirit but think you could better serve yourself
and the family by slowing down.

> My children and I are very close to my mother, and losing her is
not going to be easy. This is my question. How can I possibly keep
up?

Who are you trying to keep up with? NO ONE around you [other than
family] is trying to juggle so many balls. I can't relate to being
pregnant with #5, having a sick mother and hs-ing. Its really apples
and oranges. If you and your kids can get through this tough time
together that will be an accomplishment in my book. This horrible
time will teach them compassion and love and a sense of family that
we can miss when we run here and there week after week, month after
month.

I am trying to unschool, but I'm worried about how
> much they are learning. I saw Cafi at the conference in Orlando
in May and was very motivated. But trying to keep everyone in good,
educational activities is wearing me out. We live 45 miles from a
large city, and there are not
> a lot of opportunities nearby.

I think the activities just HAVE to go. At least until after you have
the new baby and s/he is a few months old. don't worry, your kids
can catch up on the academics. REally. MANY hs-ers have stories where
in a few months time they get back on track after tragedy.

Right now, we have Brownies on Monday night
> and AWANA on Wednesday night. We also have the two oldest in horseback
riding lessons two mornings each week. And for the next six weeks,
all except the two year old have Christmas play practice another hour
and a half on Sunday nights
> before church.

Can a carpool for the Christmas play be set up? What can your husband
do to help you with the schedule he keeps? Can he take vacation time
to keep the kids? Or all of you go for a visit? Cutting back on horseback
lessons for now will give you more money to see your mom.

My twelve year old wants desperately to volunteer at the Children's
Museum. I want him to also, but it is an hour away, and it wouldn't
be feasible for me to bring everyone back home just
> to turn around and make the trip again to pick him up.

This just has to wait. It'll be a disappointment but there is no way
around it.

My two year old is always sick. Already this year, he has had Croup,
and then Bronchitis and Pneumonia together. We have him at the doctor
> (an hour away) at least a couple times each month. And I'm really
afraid to get him out in public because he catches everything that
is going around.

That's right. And you can't afford to get sick either.

I need to be doing some kind of math activities
> with them each day, but that isn't always happening.

Let them help with dinner, measuring and timing and mixing. Play chess,
monopoly or any other games they like.

And I would love to have some time at home when I don't have to worry
about getting everyone ready to go out. This really isn't a whine.
> I would just appreciate any suggestions
> on how I can keep my head above the
> water right now. Thanks for reading
> this, and thanks again for any ideas
> you may have.

Well, even if it was a whine you are surely entitled to it! What we
do is have 2 days a week where we don't go out. [unschoolers too]
We read a lot and watch PBS. I try to do math and phonics/reading
everyday and don't pressure myself too much on the other topics.

I recommend a schedule with at least 2 days home PLUS the weekend.
No activities or the AWANAs if they can all do it. Gardening, cooking
and cleaning as a family task. LOTS of hug time. AND...mom MUST sleep
and eat as well as possible. Scheduled family rest sounds GREAT! No
radio, PC or TV for 2 hours a day. A slice of heaven!

I wish the very best for all of you in this tough time. I hope your
relegious beliefs can be a comfort to you. Dawne

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  What I did.
      AUTHOR:  Kristen AKA curlywhirly
        DATE:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 10:58 a.m.

 Response To:  What can I do? (very long)
      Author:  Theresa
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 1:37 p.m.



Theresa,

OH MY!!! you really do have your hands full don't you?

I really do not have any new and startling advice to add, because
I agree with everything that has been said, but I would like to say
it again. =)

Last year at the end of August, my Grandmother, who was 96 yo at the
time finally became unable to live by herself because she had a heart
attack and her health was bad after that. She lived about 4 hours
away from me. We stopped everything, and went up to be with her, and
help my Mom move her stuff down to live with my Mom, near me. After
that, we spent at least 2 days a week at my Moms home spending time
with Grandma and giving Mom a break from 24/7 caregiving. We found
a place to borrow a wheelchair and took my Grandma to the mall, and
the zoo and the beach, and all of the places she loved to go but had
not been able to for quite a while. I was able to treat my boys to
lessons about caregiving, and gentleness, and they got to learn about
the wonderful lady who mostly raised me, and our family history.

It wasn't easy. I wish I could say I was sweet and generous all of
the time, and gracious about how disrupted our lives were. You see,
one day a week I had to take my boys to their horse therapy appointment,
one day was my women's Bible Study, and then 2 days with Grandma and
with that there was no time left for the grocery store let alone school!
School was very hard to fit in, but I also found out that Grandma
loved to listen to me read aloud historical fiction or science to
the boys. I kept my complaints to myself (or my very understanding
hubby) and slogged through it. It wasn't easy at all, in fact, things
have just gotten more complicated since then, but that is another
post. I had to learn to take care of myself, as well as prioritize
so I could care for others. That ment naps, time away just for me
and my hubby, and saying no to outside committments and extra activities
for me (my bible Study) and the boys (Karate), and my hubby (softball
team).

In May my Grandma passed away. I can honestly tell you that what we
did in focusing on family instead of "doing school" was one of the
best things I ever did. My boys had to give up activites and so did
I. I am crying as I write this because those last months were so special
to me. Every night both of my boys still say " Thank YOu for the time
we spent with Great Grandma" in their prayers. I would not change
a thing.

Hang in there, take care of yourself, and do not be afraid for your
kids to get the chance to see and feel first hand how things are.
Talk to them and help them through the hard and complainy part. Enjoy
every minute of your time with your Mom, and your pregnancy. Let other
people do things to help you out. Let go of the things that just are
not able to get done.

God Bless you.

Kristen

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  How much do we bring on ourselves?
      AUTHOR:  Karen
        DATE:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 11:08 a.m.

 Response To:  OK, but...
      Author:  Cerelle
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 10:58 a.m.



Unschoolers, homeschoolers, deschoolers and reschoolers. I think anyone
at one time or another can experience some degree of burnout.

I've often wondered about the mentality of getting kids into sports,
dance, art classes, music lessons, cultural events, science classes
etc, etc, before the age of ten. Not that any of these things are
bad, but there seems to be such a push in our culture to make sure
our children are not being left out, deprived (whatever you want to
call it).

If you are homeschooling plus running your children all over kingdom
come and feeling overwhelmed or tired, perhaps taking a few steps
back and reviewing the situation may help.

When my children were younger we made a point to be involved with
only a few things (baseball, church activities) and strive to have
a much family time as we could. Now looking back, none of us has any
regrets about what we may have missed. As they get older there is
less and less family time because of their various activities (gymnastics,
dance, music, volunteering). So I guess what I'm saying is don't be
in such a hurry to involve them in everything that comes along, enjoy
their childhood with them. Karen

> Even unschoolers are capable of
> feeling a little dimmed and dull sometimes...as
> if someone had shaken off their fairy
> dust.

> It is true, though, that unschooling
> can be a wonderful remedy for the weary
> family who has been doing hours and
> hours of workbook insanity every day.
> And in fact, CHANGING WHAT YOU'RE DOING
> NOW is almost always a good idea if
> things don't seem to be working.

> Cerelle

>

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: I think maybe *I* am an unschooler who has had
her fairy dust shaken off !! =8-0
      AUTHOR:  Kim from sidetracks
        DATE:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 11:15 a.m.

 Response To:  OK, but...
      Author:  Cerelle
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 10:58 a.m.



> Even unschoolers are capable of
> feeling a little dimmed and dull sometimes...as
> if someone had shaken off their fairy
> dust.

Myabe it is just the weather or not proper eating... either or both
of those could be true...

I don't know- it's ... 8-?

Can an unschooler do too little ?? 8-/ We're reading the Hobbit as
a family - someting I can't convince the kids to do- only the 8 yo
appreciates reading out loud... and computer games (but those are
really more like "tv" than learning)

and Christmas charities stuff...

I just FEEL... 8-?

PS> the kids are happy- that counts for something right ??

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: How much do we bring on ourselves?
      AUTHOR:  Giovanna
        DATE:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 11:22 a.m.

 Response To:  How much do we bring on ourselves?
      Author:  Karen
        Date:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 11:08 a.m.



> When my children were younger we
> made a point to be involved with only
> a few things (baseball, church activities)
> and strive to have a much family time
> as we could. Now looking back, none
> of us has any regrets about what we
> may have missed. As they get older there
> is less and less family time because
> of their various activities (gymnastics,
> dance, music, volunteering). So I guess
> what I'm saying is don't be in such
> a hurry to involve them in everything
> that comes along, enjoy their childhood
> with them.

YES!

Which brings me back to the same word, "SEASONS".

"There is a season... a time for everything."

The reason we fall into burnout, stress and wearyness is that we don't
recognize the season we are in. We push, pull and holler and literally
grind ourselves right down to the ground because we make decisions
about our children that do not fall within the right timing. The time
for activities outside the home isn't when you have two preschoolers
at home.

The same goes for academic things. Although some children learn to
read at 5 it doesn't mean ALL will. When we don't recognize the right
timing for things we are setting ourselves up for trouble.

I loved reading your post. You nailed it right on the head.

Giovanna


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  What do you do when the crisi just keep coming?
      AUTHOR:  Kristen AKA curlywhirly
        DATE:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 11:47 a.m.



Crisi? Is that a real word? I do not know, but we have so many things
going on all at once I can't even think to figure it out.=)

It seems that the entire time I have been homeschooling (going on
7 years now!) there has been some emergency of some sort. I was a
single Mom when I started, and we had an awful situation with my X
who was abusive. Then there was the fallout from all of that to deal
with, and the fallout from my Dad dying of cancer during the divorce
and custody hearings ( a year or so before the boys were school age)
and then trying to get ourselves back together. Then there was the
money crisis of a single Mom with no regular job.The boys went to
school for a year and a half because I thought I couldn't so it anymore.
Then (HAPPY THING) I was married to a wonderful, homeschool-supportive
man. Not a bad thing, but so many adjustments!! At least my boys were
back home where they belonged. Then there was the situation with my
Grandma (posted below) and that is when things started getting harry.
Since last March, we have bought a house, had one of my sons diagnosed
with Bipolar Disorder and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, discovered
that we were defrauded on the house, and it is about to collapse from
termites. We had to hire lawyers and start a lawsuit about it. Have
had to go looking for doctors to help my son and have not been able
to find one. My Mom has been diagosed with Parkinson's Disease, my
hubby had a major car accident that he was lucky to live through,
let alone walk away from, and I got to watch it happen, and hundreds
of other things that are too long to list. I am so tired just from
typing this. Like Theresa said, I too do not want to whine, but WOw.
How long can one person operate in crisis mode? The situation with
the house may end soon, or may take years. We will know after mediation
in the next couple of weeks. The situation with my son, is still in
the acute stages, and I am hoping we do not have to hospitalize him.
We are going to another doctor in a week or so to see if she can help
him. My Mom does not seem to know what Parkinson's Disease is, or
the prognosis, but my wonderful hubby has already said she can move
in. ( I hope I would survive that, since we do not get along very
well).

We have cut out virtually all activites, and are just trying to do
the basics. My son who is ill is very disruptive though, and nobody
is getting done much of any school. We cannot unschool because of
the situation with the X, and the fact that we are going through a
Govt ISP to keep him off our backs. We are pretty Relaxed though,
and I do not think a curriculum change is the answer. We have already
done that.

I guess my question is, what do you do after *simplify* and *focus
on family* when things just keep coming at ya? How do you return to
some semblence of normalcy? My younger son, especially, needs to have
some stability in his life to be able to ride out all of the problems.
Unfortunatly, I can't seem to even arrange a play date from him with
other homeschoolers because things just keep coming up.

I really need some ideas. Thanks ladies!!!

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Have an address for GAMES Magazine? (NT) -
      AUTHOR:  dmx
        DATE:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 1:13 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: suggestions for math burnout?
      Author:  Cerelle
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 7:41 p.m.



>

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Not much of an answer but...
      AUTHOR:  Lori
        DATE:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 2:02 p.m.

 Response To:  What do you do when the crisi just keep coming?
      Author:  Kristen AKA curlywhirly
        Date:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 11:47 a.m.



I certainly know what you are going through, at least for the most
part. I have just gone through the illness and death of my dad, to
whom I was very close. We also were in a pretty bad car accident and
are having problems with our house!

I don't think that unschooling is the answer, even if you could. During
stressful times kids need structure. Too little structure makes their
lives seem even more out of control.

Please don't jump into having your mother move in with you!! Even
if you got along well that would add a tremendous amount of stress
to your too-stressed out life! There are health care facilities that
can help her deal with her condition if the need arises. And you needn't
feel guilty about it, no matter what anyone says.

I hope I don't sound as though I have all the answers; I came here
today to get advice myself! We have made the decision to send our
oldest to private school next year (8th grade) because I really, truly,
feel that I cannot go on this way and still give her the education
she needs. My hormones are causing part of the problem, along with
the grief that seems to come in waves, and I am a screaming lunatic
most of the time lately.

Sorry I can't give you a quick fix or magic cure but if I find one
I'll sure let you know!


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: suggestions for math burnout?
      AUTHOR:  Laura in CT
        DATE:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 2:16 p.m.

 Response To:  suggestions for math burnout?
      Author:  Jannarama
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 4:53 p.m.



If she likes computer games, I'd definitely try The Logical Journey
of the Zoombinis, put out by Broderbund. It's full of great mathematical
(especially algebraic) thinking, but no numbers to be seen. And, it's
lots of fun.

Other resources to spice up math:

The I Hate Mathematics Book by Marilyn Burns Math for Smarty Pants,
also by Burns Math Wizardry for Kids published by Barron's How Math
Works by Carol Vorderman

These are all full of interesting math without that textbook feel,
suitable for kids (and adults!) aged around 9 and up.

You might also take a look at the Key to... series by Key Curriculum
Press. These low-cost workbooks are often more palatable to kids than
Saxon. They have series for Fractions, Decimals, Geometry, Algebra,
Measurement, again for 4th or 5th grade and up. Here's their URL:
www.keypress.com

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: What do you do when the crisi just keep coming?
      AUTHOR:  LisaNca
        DATE:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 5:44 p.m.

 Response To:  What do you do when the crisi just keep coming?
      Author:  Kristen AKA curlywhirly
        Date:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 11:47 a.m.



just tread, I wish I had a better answer.

As for your mom, I agree with Lori. For your sanity & the health of
your kids & relationship. I know it's a hard choice to make. We have
been thinking about this a lot with our parents.

It's hard on siblings when one *seems* to be getting all the attention.
I had to make it a priority to have special times with the others.

Ideas, how about I drive up one Saturday & we do lunch?? My treat
:) ~Lisa


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Have an address for GAMES Magazine? (NT) -
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 6:33 p.m.

 Response To:  Have an address for GAMES Magazine? (NT) -
      Author:  dmx
        Date:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 1:13 p.m.



Here's the subscription address for GAMES (unless it has changed in
the last year or so):

GAMES P.O. Box 605 Mt. Morris, IL 61054-0605

phone inquiries: (800) 827-1256

Of my 3 children, 2 have LOVED this magazine. The "odd one out" reads
cooking and food magazines only, but that's OK -- she gets a lot of
practical math experience in the kitchen. :-D

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: What do you do when the crisi just keep coming?
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 7:08 p.m.

 Response To:  What do you do when the crisi just keep coming?
      Author:  Kristen AKA curlywhirly
        Date:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 11:47 a.m.



Kristen, I have never faced the kinds of challenges you've described
in your post, so I would never dream of presuming to advise you. We
have had horrible years, though -- times when it seemed like everything
that could go wrong DID go wrong. What I always hated most was the
relentlessness of constant calamity. I'd want to scream, "Give us
a break, here, would you?"

I guess what I want to say to you is that I often worried that my
children's education might be getting lost in the shuffle, while we
struggled to keep a roof over our heads and food in our bellies. Somehow,
though, their education never suffered as much as I was sure it would.

Maybe the thing to keep in mind at times like these (even if "times
like these" turn out to be ALL the time) is the tiny amount of time
that ends up being spent on academic learning in traditional classrooms.
(Remember what Cafi always says about those days she spent observing
in her children's classrooms!)

I don't know about y'all, but when I'm in Panic Mode, I forget that.
I imagine that the kids in regular school are all receiving 7-8 hours
per day of quality, one-on-one teaching in serious academic areas
(you know, translating Homer and calculating astronomical distances
and writing award-winning essays), while my guys are watching sitcom
reruns. Or am I only one who occasionally suffers from that nightmare
fantasy???

My real belief is that the worse things are, the more beneficial it
is for us all to be together, working toward common goals in the face
of all that adversity. Homeschooling (the lifestyle, that is) is essentially
the experience of the whole family pulling together, come what may.

I'm sure this sounds like cold comfort to someone who's been struggling
so long, but I bet you feel the same way or you wouldn't have stuck
with it all these years, true? I guess the real question is how do
we keep all those crises at bay? Wish I knew the answer to that one!
Meanwhile, the best I can offer is that old timeworn advice to take
everything one day at a time.

:( Not much help, am I?

Cerelle


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Wow...you need to step away from that lightning
rod, hunny...LOL...
      AUTHOR:  annie
        DATE:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 8:13 p.m.

 Response To:  What do you do when the crisi just keep coming?
      Author:  Kristen AKA curlywhirly
        Date:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 11:47 a.m.



Goodness, girl....you even make my life seem tame! And that's not
too easy!

Honestly, I suggest meditation...no joke...

Having lived the life of "always under one cloud or the other" for
a goodly poriton of my life, I can tell you that it really does help.

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: What do you do when the crisi just keep coming?
      AUTHOR:  Annette
        DATE:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 8:53 p.m.

 Response To:  What do you do when the crisi just keep coming?
      Author:  Kristen AKA curlywhirly
        Date:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 11:47 a.m.



Kristen, You really have had a lot handed to you. My dh and I have
had about 7 years of some substantial struggles. I won't go into it
all (some is different than yours, some similar) but there were times
that I just felt like pulling the covers over my head and not getting
up in the morning. All of that is to let you know that I do know how
you feel. Just the concern you must be feeling for your children would
be enough to overwhelm most anyone. We are coming out of our struggles.
I home schooled through all of those years and then when things calmed
down...my oldest goes off to public school. Ironic huh. :o) During
those years I just did the best I could. That is all we can request
of ourselves. The other thing that was key to my sanity was to look
for the good in my life. I had enough to eat, I was warm in the winter,
I had clothes, my kids had shoes and coats, I have friends, good books
to provide a brief respite, anything that brought me the most miniscule
share of joy, I considered a blessing and I tried to focus my sight
on those. Some may call that denial...I call it survival. We made
it through our rough years with some battle wounds, a little worn
around the edges, tired, but oh so much wiser, and much more appreciative
of life's small joys. Hang in there Kristen. I pray for blessings
to be poured out upon your heart.....they may not be the traditional
blessings of lots of money, big giant house and nice car. They may
be more of the everyday variety like peace of mind, comforted heart,
joy unspeakable! ((HUG))

>

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Here's a new one.....(long)
      AUTHOR:  Lisa
        DATE:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 10:52 p.m.



My husband and I just got done recently with new community classes
at our church to find out more about it. We love it there and are
going to become members. They have a belief that you should only help
out in the church in something that you have a spiritual gift for.
Here's the thing: After the pastor saw my gifts (which has a lot to
do with administration and running an office), he propositioned me
with a full-time job as one of the church secretaries. He understands
my home situation with homeschooling and all and was a little leary
about even offering me the job, because of that, but left the decision
up to me and my husband.

Well, about 4 weeks ago, I was telling my husband that the one thing
that I miss because of homeschooling the kids, was working in an office
and running things. Not that I don't run things in my homeschool,
but work is different.

Anyway, I told him no, of course, but told him I would help out whenever
he was loaded.

All this happened this past Sunday, and one of the other secretaries
called Monday morning and asked if I would be willing to come in on
Fridays until about the first of the year, when they plan on having
another secretary take over completely.

I am really torn! Is this something I could do? I'm only asking all
of you, because I have gotten such good advice in the past. I feel
like a traitor to the homeschooling world! LOL My heart would actually
like to take on the fulltime postion, if I didn't have school age
kids, but that will have to wait.

Has anyone had experience with something like this, and did it work
for you andyour family? My husband is supportive and backs me up 100%.
He knows this is what I really like to do.

How about you single moms that work? What do you do with your kids
while you work? I would be working only on Fridays from 9 to 5.

This kind of scares me, because I'm wondering if God is trying to
slowly move me out of the homeschooling world. We originally took
my then second grade son out of school in the middle, because of some
things that were going on with a BD child in the same class. We have
been homeschooling for 2 years now. Am I getting soft?

Please give me some advice!!!

Thanks,

Lisa

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Working & homeschooling
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 11:12 p.m.

 Response To:  Here's a new one.....(long)
      Author:  Lisa
        Date:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 10:52 p.m.



Lisa, how old are your kids?

I worked part-time at our library for two years, and we all survived
(I think that was the point, actually...to guarantee our survival!).
I won't say it was the EASIEST thing we ever did, but it wasn't the
end of the world, either. However, my youngest was 10, and I had 2
older, motherly daughters who kept an eye on things at home in my
absence.

Frankly, if you miss the office environment, and it's only 1 day a
week, and you have childcare options on that day, I honestly don't
see what would be wrong with your seizing this opportunity that has
come your way. It could be the very thing that puts that extra spring
in your step, if you know what I mean!

On the other hand, if it would make an already hectic life even more
hectic, well, maybe you should think about it a little while longer???

Cerelle

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Find a great opportunity for your kids...
      AUTHOR:  Lisa Torres
        DATE:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 5:27 a.m.

 Response To:  Here's a new one.....(long)
      Author:  Lisa
        Date:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 10:52 p.m.



My son is lots older than your children (he's 17). However, my husband
and I both work, so when we decided to homeschool him a couple of
years ago, the first question was, "What will he do when we're at
work?" (We knew, based on his record, that it wouldn't be workbooks!
LOL) So, we helped him find a great part-time job--one that provided
him with hands-on experience in areas of his interest.

Of course, noone would hire 8 & 10 yo's...but maybe you can seek out
something more interesting than "just day care" for them...music lessons,
or a chance to be on a farm, or classes at a homeschool co-op group,
or just learning to do crafts with a grandmotherly type...I presume
that the church might allow you some flexibility to leave for a few
minutes to do transportation, or to have them with you for an hour
or two if necessary, too. I teach at a public school, and my son stops
in for a couple of hours in the afternoon after work to do schoolwork
in the library...The principal called me in this year (I was afraid
he was going to put an end to that), asked how homeschooling was doing,
and said that because of liability it might be a problem to some that
he was coming, but we'd just keep it low profile, as long as he knew
what the deal was...

It's a challenge to work full time and school a reluctant academic
(who wants to attend a very competitive engineering school...), but
we have been able to make it work, and you can, too!

> My husband and I just got done
> recently with new community classes
> at our church to find out more about
> it. We love it there and are going to
> become members. They have a belief that
> you should only help out in the church
> in something that you have a spiritual
> gift for. Here's the thing: After the
> pastor saw my gifts (which has a lot
> to do with administration and running
> an office), he propositioned me with
> a full-time job as one of the church
> secretaries. He understands my home
> situation with homeschooling and all
> and was a little leary about even offering
> me the job, because of that, but left
> the decision up to me and my husband.
>

> Well, about 4 weeks ago, I was
> telling my husband that the one thing
> that I miss because of homeschooling
> the kids, was working in an office and
> running things. Not that I don't run
> things in my homeschool, but work is
> different.

> Anyway, I told him no, of course,
> but told him I would help out whenever
> he was loaded.

> All this happened this past Sunday,
> and one of the other secretaries called
> Monday morning and asked if I would
> be willing to come in on Fridays until
> about the first of the year, when they
> plan on having another secretary take
> over completely.

> I am really torn! Is this something
> I could do? I'm only asking all of you,
> because I have gotten such good advice
> in the past. I feel like a traitor to
> the homeschooling world! LOL My heart
> would actually like to take on the fulltime
> postion, if I didn't have school age
> kids, but that will have to wait.

> Has anyone had experience with
> something like this, and did it work
> for you andyour family? My husband is
> supportive and backs me up 100%. He
> knows this is what I really like to
> do.

> How about you single moms that
> work? What do you do with your kids
> while you work? I would be working only
> on Fridays from 9 to 5.

> This kind of scares me, because
> I'm wondering if God is trying to slowly
> move me out of the homeschooling world.
> We originally took my then second grade
> son out of school in the middle, because
> of some things that were going on with
> a BD child in the same class. We have
> been homeschooling for 2 years now.
> Am I getting soft?

> Please give me some advice!!!

> Thanks,

> Lisa

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: What do you do .....Calgon, take me away!!
      AUTHOR:  Karen
        DATE:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 7:02 a.m.

 Response To:  What do you do when the crisi just keep coming?
      Author:  Kristen AKA curlywhirly
        Date:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 11:47 a.m.



Hi Kristen, Here is something that I do that helps me..... Keeping
an eye out for "oasis" times. Something that is said or done that
is uplifting or/and encouraging. I write what happens in a journal
and then go back and read it when I'm down. Sometimes helps me see
things in a different light and also keeps me aware of the little
things around me that can be encouraging but sometimes get overlooked
amidst all the hectic stuff. Hang in there! Karen
> Crisi? Is that a real word? I do
> not know, but we have so many things
> going on all at once I can't even think
> to figure it out.=)

> It seems that the entire time I
> have been homeschooling (going on 7
> years now!) there has been some emergency
> of some sort. I was a single Mom when
> I started, and we had an awful situation
> with my X who was abusive. Then there
> was the fallout from all of that to
> deal with, and the fallout from my Dad
> dying of cancer during the divorce and
> custody hearings ( a year or so before
> the boys were school age) and then trying
> to get ourselves back together. Then
> there was the money crisis of a single
> Mom with no regular job.The boys went
> to school for a year and a half because
> I thought I couldn't so it anymore.
> Then (HAPPY THING) I was married to
> a wonderful, homeschool-supportive man.
> Not a bad thing, but so many adjustments!!
> At least my boys were back home where
> they belonged. Then there was the situation
> with my Grandma (posted below) and that
> is when things started getting harry.
> Since last March, we have bought a house,
> had one of my sons diagnosed with Bipolar
> Disorder and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder,
> discovered that we were defrauded on
> the house, and it is about to collapse
> from termites. We had to hire lawyers
> and start a lawsuit about it. Have had
> to go looking for doctors to help my
> son and have not been able to find one.
> My Mom has been diagosed with Parkinson's
> Disease, my hubby had a major car accident
> that he was lucky to live through, let
> alone walk away from, and I got to watch
> it happen, and hundreds of other things
> that are too long to list. I am so tired
> just from typing this. Like Theresa
> said, I too do not want to whine, but
> WOw. How long can one person operate
> in crisis mode? The situation with the
> house may end soon, or may take years.
> We will know after mediation in the
> next couple of weeks. The situation
> with my son, is still in the acute stages,
> and I am hoping we do not have to hospitalize
> him. We are going to another doctor
> in a week or so to see if she can help
> him. My Mom does not seem to know what
> Parkinson's Disease is, or the prognosis,
> but my wonderful hubby has already said
> she can move in. ( I hope I would survive
> that, since we do not get along very
> well).

> We have cut out virtually all activites,
> and are just trying to do the basics.
> My son who is ill is very disruptive
> though, and nobody is getting done much
> of any school. We cannot unschool because
> of the situation with the X, and the
> fact that we are going through a Govt
> ISP to keep him off our backs. We are
> pretty Relaxed though, and I do not
> think a curriculum change is the answer.
> We have already done that.

> I guess my question is, what do
> you do after *simplify* and *focus on
> family* when things just keep coming
> at ya? How do you return to some semblence
> of normalcy? My younger son, especially,
> needs to have some stability in his
> life to be able to ride out all of the
> problems. Unfortunatly, I can't seem
> to even arrange a play date from him
> with other homeschoolers because things
> just keep coming up.

> I really need some ideas. Thanks
> ladies!!!

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Well, you asked....
      AUTHOR:  Robin S
        DATE:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 7:02 a.m.

 Response To:  Here's a new one.....(long)
      Author:  Lisa
        Date:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 10:52 p.m.



...and keeping that in mind, I'm wondering why a pastor would offer
a full time job to a full time mom. When so few moms who are able
to be at home to raise their kids choose to let someone elso do the
job for them, it saddens me to hear that a pastor would undermine
that decision and tempt you to leave them. If you had to work in order
for your family to survive that would be entirely different, but you
are making it on dh's salary, correct?

Before this sounds too hard nosed, let me explain that I have had
to spend much time with my oldest daughter while she was pregnant
with twins, and that resulted in some behavioral problems with my
son. He really resented the time I was out of the house, and he is
13 and more than capable of being at home by himself. So be careful
with even one day a week that your kids don't suffer for it.

Just remember, raising those kids is your main ministry for now, plenty
of time for career when they are grown, that is only 10 years down
the road, don't hurry it, relax and enjoy them, you only get that
chance once.

Robin S

> My husband and I just got done
> recently with new community classes
> at our church to find out more about
> it. We love it there and are going to
> become members. They have a belief that
> you should only help out in the church
> in something that you have a spiritual
> gift for. Here's the thing: After the
> pastor saw my gifts (which has a lot
> to do with administration and running
> an office), he propositioned me with
> a full-time job as one of the church
> secretaries. He understands my home
> situation with homeschooling and all
> and was a little leary about even offering
> me the job, because of that, but left
> the decision up to me and my husband.
>

> Well, about 4 weeks ago, I was
> telling my husband that the one thing
> that I miss because of homeschooling
> the kids, was working in an office and
> running things. Not that I don't run
> things in my homeschool, but work is
> different.

> Anyway, I told him no, of course,
> but told him I would help out whenever
> he was loaded.

> All this happened this past Sunday,
> and one of the other secretaries called
> Monday morning and asked if I would
> be willing to come in on Fridays until
> about the first of the year, when they
> plan on having another secretary take
> over completely.

> I am really torn! Is this something
> I could do? I'm only asking all of you,
> because I have gotten such good advice
> in the past. I feel like a traitor to
> the homeschooling world! LOL My heart
> would actually like to take on the fulltime
> postion, if I didn't have school age
> kids, but that will have to wait.

> Has anyone had experience with
> something like this, and did it work
> for you andyour family? My husband is
> supportive and backs me up 100%. He
> knows this is what I really like to
> do.

> How about you single moms that
> work? What do you do with your kids
> while you work? I would be working only
> on Fridays from 9 to 5.

> This kind of scares me, because
> I'm wondering if God is trying to slowly
> move me out of the homeschooling world.
> We originally took my then second grade
> son out of school in the middle, because
> of some things that were going on with
> a BD child in the same class. We have
> been homeschooling for 2 years now.
> Am I getting soft?

> Please give me some advice!!!

> Thanks,

> Lisa

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: suggestions for math burnout?
      AUTHOR:  Robin S
        DATE:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 7:18 a.m.

 Response To:  suggestions for math burnout?
      Author:  Jannarama
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 4:53 p.m.



We have the same problem with math, bought Saxon because it was touted
as the best, and for those who do 'school at home' perhaps it is good,
but for us it worked best when I sold it at the used curriculum sale
last year. We now use Keys Curriculum Press. The workbooks are much
more user friendly and not as threatening as a text book can be. Some
days, I have my son bake for practice with fractions and measuring,
and forget the book altogether. I like the math games approach as
well.

Robin S

> Howdy--I like the 'burnout' topic
> because I'm going through it w/ my 11
> y.o. daughter and math right now. She
> was in public school and used Saxon
> Math. She does really well in math--better
> than *I* ever would!!

> However, she really really hates
> doing math. She's been using Saxon Algebra
> 1/2 and does 15 problems each day--odds
> on one day, evens on the next. If she
> NEVER did another problem, she'd be
> happy.

> So I'm looking for suggestions
> to an alternative to the typical math
> problems in a book. Are there any computer
> programs out there that would get the
> theories of algebra across to her without
> driving her to boredom? What other math
> curricula is out there besides Saxon?
>

> Thanks for any suggestions,

> c-ya, Jannarama

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Here's my take on it...got milk?...
      AUTHOR:  annie
        DATE:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 9:55 a.m.

 Response To:  Here's a new one.....(long)
      Author:  Lisa
        Date:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 10:52 p.m.



..cause these can be some tough cookies to swallow...LOL

About two years ago, I had the opportunity to work one day a week
with a friend in her ad agency...keep my feet in the industry, keep
up on trends and tools, have adult interaction other than DH (not
that he's not wonderful!)...things I wanted very much, not to mention
a little pocket money to do with as I chose, and I took it. Within
a year, it had worked into 2 1/2 days, and though I loved the job,
I was beginning to see the impact on my kids, but I felt I needed
to work. I wanted to be doing my art.

Then, this summer, my health took a major dive and I ended up looking
in death's door and getting intimately acquainted with the neuro-surgery
ward, and although it had nothing to do with my vision, my eyes are
much wider open now...the results of that encounter are nothing short
of miraculous, and I am in constant awe that life can change so suddenly
and drastically.

After my three month recovery period, I was planning to return to
the job, but I have changed my mind. During this time, my kids and
I were able to re-establish our schooling in a more productive and
comfortable way, and I saw how much I had been missing and knew how
much I wanted to spend whatever time I have (now a much better bet
that it will be a long time) doing the most important creative work
I will ever be able to give the world - my kids!

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  A Clean House, Organization and other Mysteries of
the Universe :-)
      AUTHOR:  Giovanna
        DATE:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 9:59 a.m.



I think one of things about a homeschooling lifestyle that may cause
disappointment and stress is the fact that if you stay home then your
house never really stays clean.

How do you all keep the house clean? I used to be a neat freak----USED
TO BE. My expectations are much, much lower now but sometimes I look
around and think, "UGH! THIS IS NOT WHAT I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE!"

Looking forward to your input.

Giovanna

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  True confessions & a life history
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 10:28 a.m.

 Response To:  A Clean House, Organization and other Mysteries of
the Universe :-)
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 9:59 a.m.



Dollars to donuts, I bet the reason Giovanna asked this question just
because she knew it would "draw me out." HA!

OK, ladies (and gentlemen, too, if you're out there), the real reason
I didn't participate much on this board last month is because I was
too busy getting my house clean, in anticipation for a visit from
an Australian scientist (who, in fact, never came to the house --
how's that for irony?).

It didn't really take me a whole month to get the house clean. It
took two full weeks, and THEN it took two full weeks to recuperate.
LOL! I haven't worked that hard since the last time I gave birth.

Seriously, though, I hate to think what our lives would be like if
our house stayed this clean all the time. I would be ***impossible***
to live with. I realized this about a week after I'd been trying to
maintain it at its height of loveliness and sparkle. I was not being
a very nice person, let me tell you! I was griping and nagging and
fussing at people for messing up my bee-yoo-tiful house. Nah -- it's
really not worth it.

Of course I have my minimum standards, because I don't want to live
in abject squalor anymore than anyone else does. And of course, I
require my kids to help us all escape squalor. But I have this theory
that in time, every family tends to reach its own equilibrium. It
may not be supremely comfortable for everyone, starting out, but after
a number of years of compromise, people learn to respect one another's
limits. (Like Felix and Oscar of the Odd Couple.)

When I got all my windows shiny clean and cobweb-free last month,
they were so gorgeous I vowed I would try to keep them like that forever.
Well...maybe I will; maybe I won't. I don't know. We'll see. The thing
is, I didn't get that much of anything else done last month, and there
are so many other things I like to do!

I think (but I'm not sure) that it was harder when the kids were younger,
if that's any consolation to you, Giovanna. Not only were they messier
then, but they were home more AND they were less able to understand
what I meant when I said, "Please get this area CLEAN & TIDY." Now
they all have a pretty good idea of what my definition of "clean &
tidy" is (from all these years of living with me), and they can cooperate.
But that takes time, so try to be patient with them. One thing's for
sure -- most kids aren't born with a high interest in keeping things
neat. It's a skill we must instill in them, hopefully by gentle means!
:-D

They all go through stages, too, and it's not always an orderly progression
(no pun intended). At 9, Laurel was very, very neat. She cleaned her
room and made her bed every day. At 17 -- well, I don't think I even
want to talk about it. I can't physically walk into her room, let's
put it that way. LOL! Hunter, at 14, is amazingly tidy -- much tidier
than I would ever have hoped for, given how he was a few years ago.
But that could change. My husband? Let's not go there...

Just keep keepin' on -- that's all I know to say. Neatness DOES count,
but it doesn't count more than everything else. That's my motto.

Cerelle

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Can you take your kids with you?
      AUTHOR:  Lori
        DATE:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 10:35 a.m.

 Response To:  Here's a new one.....(long)
      Author:  Lisa
        Date:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 10:52 p.m.



This is what I did two years ago when I would fill in for our church
secretary. We have a workroom next to the office and they did their
school work while I played secretary! I loved the chance to do "grown-up"
work every now and then and I got to know more of our church members
than ever before. After all, the church secretary has to know everything
about every situation because she's the one everybody calls. *G* Anyway,
I would do it if that's what you would like to do. Give it a shot!
It is just for a few months, right? If your kids have a place to go
or you can take them with you they will be fine.

Good luck!


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  A clean house? What IS that?
      AUTHOR:  PattiC
        DATE:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 11:46 a.m.

 Response To:  A Clean House, Organization and other Mysteries of
the Universe :-)
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 9:59 a.m.



AH, I have a vague memory in the distant recesses of my mind!!! Seriously,
there is absolutely NO WAY to be relaxed, spontaneous and joyful homeschoolers
for us AND to have a clean home. So then, mom is stressed "after hours"
when she finally gets a chance to glance about her home with a critical
eye. So,like all moms I end up beating myself up about it. The kids
are always in charge of their rooms and messes but even so I can't
ever seem to have a tidy home just regularly doing the set chores
that should in theory result in one. Clean-yes, tidy with everything
put away, no. So about once a month (like Cerelle- it only happens
when company is coming! Cannot let the outsiders SEE how we live!
;-) ) I absolutely wipe myself out and reap the benefits for another
week or so. But even then, I refuse to make our home unlivable for
us!

Luckily for me, my dh is a real dream about it (his office is a REAL
mess, something the kids and I cam only aspire to ;-) ) and has never
viewed a tidy home as important. What is that saying, "If a cluttered
desktop ( insert home) is a sign of a cluttered mind, what does a
empty desktop (home) mean?" or something along those lines.

Patti In Switzerland

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: A Clean House, Organization and other Mysteries
of the Universe :-)
      AUTHOR:  Deb Mc
        DATE:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 12:06 p.m.

 Response To:  A Clean House, Organization and other Mysteries of
the Universe :-)
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 9:59 a.m.



I've always had a home business, so we were always in the house. Therefore,
it was messy. Or maybe we were, but the result is the same! Now, we
homeschool and we are really living in this place. For me, I try to
keep one area of the house neat and refreshing. That's the place I
go hide when I need a break. One corner of my bedroom is the usual
place. But a quiet corner of the backyard works just as well. Keep
something pretty in that area to refresh your asthetic soul. Currently,
we are living overseas in a two bedroom apt. (there are four of us).
I've noticed one thing for sure...we can clean this place top to bottom
in two to three hours. I used to take that long to shovel out my kitchen
back home. Our motto is "we don't have room for it" and simple home
leads to a simpler life. It has been a good life lesson for me...hopefully,
for the boys too! Just remember, someday the kids will all be gone
and we can have spotless, EMPTY houses. Don't rush it! With love,
Deb

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: "How can I clean it when you don't go away?!"...
      AUTHOR:  annie
        DATE:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 12:15 p.m.

 Response To:  A Clean House, Organization and other Mysteries of
the Universe :-)
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 9:59 a.m.



Did you ever notice that the people's houses that seem to be neat
and clean are the ones where there is no one home most of the time?
(Or someone's in heavy therapy for a really deep dirt phobia...LOL)

You may also have noticed, in your worldly travels, that busy offices
usually have a paid custodial crew that comes in after hours and erases
all the evidence of the daily activities (dust, hairballs, crumpled
paper, shredded papers, broken pencils, coffee cup rings, forgotten
cookie halves and the like). Leaving the place in basically the same
clean shape every morning, ready to do it all over again.

When you choose to homeschool, you are choosing...dare I say it...
mess... yup, there's no other term for it... Not only are you all
likely to be at home a lot of the time, but you are also likely to
be very busy doing other things than studying the contrast between
a freshly dusted endtable and one that has been participating in an
ongoing research project in dust accumulation. (Although that could
constitute an interesting unit study, don't you think?)

Few of us who take on this educational option have the means to afford
a live-in maid, or even a monthly service, so we have to find the
time to pick up after ourselves. That sounds very good, doesn't it?
"Pick - up - after - ourselves." Ah, the many times my dear departed
Mother would say something like that. Why, I can almost hear her now,..."When
will you ever learn to pick up after yourself?!"...oh, ...wait...that
was me! Oh no! I've become my mother!!

And guess what...something else she said keeps coming back to me -
"Just wait till you have kids...*then* you'll understand!" As usual,
Mom was right.

annie who will now go put a load of laundry in so her concience won't
be digging at her while she's on line.


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Here's a new one.....(long)
      AUTHOR:  Kari C.
        DATE:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 12:45 p.m.

 Response To:  Here's a new one.....(long)
      Author:  Lisa
        Date:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 10:52 p.m.



Hi there. I am a part-time working mom. My son is 10 and in 5th grade.
My daughter just turned a year. I work M-F, 9am to 1pm. My kids are
with my mom while I am gone. Without her help and support, I would
be very lost. I make a weekly schedule for my son and he does a lot
on his own. He can do math, spelling, vocabulary, handwriting, and
grammar on his own in the morning. We do go over the math and grammar
lesson before I leave for work. Just to be sure he understands the
exercises. When I am home, we do historical fiction, writing and science.
It is really working out very well. I understand your want to work
a little. I have struggles with that. I, personally, more work because
of my health benefits, but I do enjoy my job. So, I guess if you have
someone to watch your kids, you would do just fine. Hope that helps
some.

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: some suggestions for math burnout...
      AUTHOR:  Jannarama
        DATE:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 4:01 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: some suggestions for math burnout...
      Author:  annie
        Date:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 2:59 a.m.



Annie, I will check out the Algebra info you posted!! Thanks--Jannarama

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: suggestions for math burnout?
      AUTHOR:  Jannarama
        DATE:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 4:11 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: suggestions for math burnout?
      Author:  Cerelle
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 7:41 p.m.



Cerelle, your post reminded me about a book I bought for Denise a
few months ago at Amazon.com. It's called "365 exercises for the Mind"
by Pierre Berloquin. We broke it out and I had her select some of
these to do yesterday instead of Saxon. She was TICKLED about doing
this!! Thanks for the suggestion!

c-ya, Jannarama

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: The " I Can't Do This!" feeling...
      AUTHOR:  Jannarama
        DATE:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 4:28 p.m.

 Response To:  The " I Can't Do This!" feeling...
      Author:  annie
        Date:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 2:45 a.m.



Annie,

I've been working on decluttering and home organization even before
thinking of homeschooling my children. I'm not quite THERE yet, but
my house is 'guest ready' if someone should pop by unexpectedly.

This past summer I found through another board I post a program called
"Managers of their Homes." It's a book by Steve and Teri Maxwell.
(their site is located at http://www.titus2.com). I got the book and
it has really helped me get organized enough that I'm not so stressed
anymore about the house.

I'm not saying this is the way for everyone, but it did work for me.
Our days are a lot calmer now that we have a schedule to follow.

In December my life will be changing BIG time! We will be moving (military)
and my husband will be getting ready to go to Korea by himself. With
this book, we've learned to depend less on him to help around the
house. This is good because when he's in Korea, he can't be there
to do some of the housework I wasn't doing!! My girls have learned
to do a lot more around the house. No, they don't enjoy it but they
are learning!

c-ya, Jannarama

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: A Clean House, Organization and other Mysteries
of the Universe :-)
      AUTHOR:  Jannarama
        DATE:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 5:06 p.m.

 Response To:  A Clean House, Organization and other Mysteries of
the Universe :-)
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 9:59 a.m.



Personally, I believe that once you start homeschooling, you realize
that there is more to life than keeping the house looking showcase
presentable. You are realizing you and your children have a connection.
You are enjoying learning and the house is the last thing on your
mind.

When I go to visit friends and they apologize for the way their house
look, I mention, "I'm not here to visit your house, I'm here to visit
YOU."

Personally, I've been struggling with clutter all my life. It's in
the last 5 years that I've done something about it. I have clutter,
but it's ORGANIZED clutter. I know where things are in my house. I'm
labeling things so others in our house can go to get them without
asking me.

I know that things didn't happen overnight to become this way, and
it's not going to clear up overnight either!! Baby steps to get things
organized. There are so many sites out there to help you get decluttered
and organized. One of my favorites is http://www.organizedhome.com

Good luck--it's a tough battle, but it can be fought!

c-ya,

Jannarama

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Thanks for the reference, and...
      AUTHOR:  annie
        DATE:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 6:28 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: The " I Can't Do This!" feeling...
      Author:  Jannarama
        Date:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 4:28 p.m.



I'm checking out some of the bookmarks at your site...

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: A Clean House, Organization and other Mysteries
of the Universe :-)
      AUTHOR:  denise in china
        DATE:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 7:32 p.m.

 Response To:  A Clean House, Organization and other Mysteries of
the Universe :-)
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 9:59 a.m.



I live in China now and keeping the apartment picked up is easier
as we have help three days a week. It is a dream come true. BUT!!!!!
When living in the states in a three level, four bedroom house with
four kids and homeschooling it was a different story. One thing I
did was teach my children to clean to a standard I could live with.
Everyone had home economics every day. We did many types of charts
and schedules. It seemed that each "chart" would work in its season,
but we would need variety every so often. On really "Bad house days".
I would turn the music up loud and say, "Let's see how clean we can
get this house in one hour!" WE would try to work in one room all
together, rather than be isolated and worrying that the other ones
weren't doing their share. My favorite idea in the last two years
is that each child gets one day where they make lunch. I get one day
too. Even the seven year gets a day. We have sandwiches on her day
alot, but she has to think about what to go with sandwiches, fruit,
veggies, etc. She has learned how to reheat leftovers in the microwave.
This freedom from cooking has given me the break I need or time to
work with someone one-on-one. So since everyone helps make the mess,
I am a true believer in that everyone can help clean the mess. The
two year old now sorts socks. Even the little ones can help some way.
Actually the two year old helps with the best attitude! Denise

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: suggestions for math burnout?
      AUTHOR:  Donna (twyn) in PA
        DATE:  Thursday, 4 November 1999, at 9:14 a.m.

 Response To:  suggestions for math burnout?
      Author:  Jannarama
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 4:53 p.m.



Hi !

My daughter felt the same way when she was about halfway through Saxon
Algebra 1/2 - it got to the point where both she and I would be in
tears or worse, angry at each other. Having her finish the book just
wasn't worth the upset and hassle ! I have found that some curriculum
just doesn't "fit" with my children, and I've relaxed enough to know
that we can set it aside (keep for later, dump it, or sell it) and
try something else. Yes, Saxon is a good teaching tool, but that's
all it is--a tool--and for her it wasn't geting the job done. We are
using the Key To Algebra, along with some Key to Geometry, workbooks
now, and my daughter is enjoying math again. The level of difficulty
in the first few workbooks is definitely lower than the Saxon Algebra
1/2 book, but I let her start from the beginning, to build her confidence
back up. She's already gone through a couple booklets, and I can say
that mathtime in our house is much more relaxed and happier. BTW--my
son still uses the Saxon books--he enjoys them (okay...except for
the Trig stuff) and they work fine for his learning style. Being able
to try a new approach when something isn't working out is just one
of the reasons why homeschool is so great :)

Enjoy--Donna (twyn) in PA

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: suggestions for math burnout?
      AUTHOR:  Jannarama
        DATE:  Thursday, 4 November 1999, at 6:32 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: suggestions for math burnout?
      Author:  Laura in CT
        Date:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 2:16 p.m.



We have Zoombinis here!! We found that program about 3 years ago and
it's GREAT!! We're now exploring "Puzzleopoliz" (a Dr. Brain game).
I'll check out that website you talked about. Thanks--Jann


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: A Clean House, Organization and other Mysteries
of the Universe :-)
      AUTHOR:  vicki in nc
        DATE:  Thursday, 4 November 1999, at 8:33 p.m.

 Response To:  A Clean House, Organization and other Mysteries of
the Universe :-)
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 9:59 a.m.



Well it might be easier for me since I am hs'ing one child, but I
can't tolerate a dirty house. Part of our hs day is chores. My dd
is 8 and she has to make her bed and do other small things, and yes
I do clean the baths while she does her independent work. I'm not
a slave to my house ,but I have to say this was a cost I had to evaluate
before I considered homeschooling. This past week I did take out a
several storm windows and cleaned out the cobwebs before the winter
sets in. It may take a month to get the other 10 done but I'll feel
better, and we'll be able to see the feeder better. I try not to be
a neat freak, but stuff has a place. The legos are scattered in their
area, the beanies have a place and so do the barbies. Believe it or
not this is a burn out area for me more so than too much school.I
do have to take a clean up day for my mental health. vicki in nc

> I think one of things about a homeschooling
> lifestyle that may cause disappointment
> and stress is the fact that if you stay
> home then your house never really stays
> clean.

> How do you all keep the house clean?
> I used to be a neat freak----USED TO
> BE. My expectations are much, much lower
> now but sometimes I look around and
> think, "UGH! THIS IS NOT WHAT I
> THOUGHT IT WOULD BE!"

> Looking forward to your input.
>

> Giovanna

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Live in Maids
      AUTHOR:  Jody C.
        DATE:  Friday, 5 November 1999, at 12:06 a.m.

 Response To:  A Clean House, Organization and other Mysteries of
the Universe :-)
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 9:59 a.m.



I do not live in a perfectly neat home, but it is somewhat put together...at
times...mostly because of the live in maids...I mean the children.
Oh yes, they do their share of messing it up, so I say, they may also
take on their share of picking it up!!

I have the kids assigned to one chore each day. They keep this one
daily housechore for a month so they get very good at it! Since I
have 5 children, we can get the house looking pretty darn good...one
vacuums, one on bathroom 1, one on bathroom 2, one dusts, one picks
up the stuff and puts it in place, and I usually have the kitchen.
Walla! The house is fairly clean!! At least it looks like we tried!

Now here is a tip that we use when spur of the moment company is coming
or when I'm just about to pull my hair out because we are such "pigs"...set
the timer for 10 minutes and everyone must pick up and put away stuff
for the entire 10 minutes. If you want a different version, everyone
takes a job (vacuuming, dusting) and the rest pick up for that tiny
little 10 minutes. You'll be amazed at what can be done in those few
minutes.

So I say, don't clean your houses, let the kids do it!!! You will
have to "coach" them awhile, but they can do it just fine! Call it
"life skills" or "home management" if you need to put it down for
school! They'll need the skills anyhow, yes?

Leave the dust bunnies under the bed and sik the kids on the "big
hunks"!!! Ruff!

Jody

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  re:Unschooling
      AUTHOR:  Teri S
        DATE:  Friday, 5 November 1999, at 9:30 a.m.

 Response To:  UNSCHOOLING
      Author:  SUSAN
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 9:49 p.m.



When I read your question, I was double browsing: both here and over
at Unschooling.com. If you are interested in learning more, check
out their website. Also, read Grace Llewelyn's The Teenage Liberation
Handbook, which can gave me a lot of encouragement for my own learning,
as well as looking forward to the kinds of learning might explore
when they get older. (Even an advanced upper elementary student might
appreciate it.)

Myself, I'm more relaxed homeschooling (a la Mary Hood) than total
unschooling--because that's what works for me and my kids! But I do
focus mostly on whatever my 5yod daughter is interested in at the
moment (and se that math and reading just fit in naturally).

I'm so glad to be able to shift in and out of different modes of learning
and facilitating and teaching. Learning doesn't have to be boring.

In His love, Teri

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  -- Presidential Visit --
      AUTHOR:  Donna (twyn) in PA
        DATE:  Friday, 5 November 1999, at 10:11 a.m.

 Response To:  A Clean House, Organization and other Mysteries of
the Universe :-)
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 9:59 a.m.



We do something similar to Jody's suggestion. When someone calls and
asks if it's okay to stop by, but the house is ummm....a disaster
area...I call a "Presidential Visit". (I read about this somewhere,
the question was, "what would you do if your house was a wreck, and
you got a call that the president was 15 minutes away and decided
to visit your home ?")

In about 15 minutes, we can walk through each room and grab the more
obvious mess, piling things up to be put away where they belong --
everything that goes upstairs goes in a basket,"wandering" laundry
gets thrown in a hamper or stuffed in the washer, coats are hung up,
shoes put away, any leftover dishes are collected, rinsed quickly
and stacked in the dishwasher. One kid does a quick dust-up in the
living room (those fuzzy static brushes are great), one sweeps the
kitchen floor (usually a crumb-fest here)and I run around with a damp
cloth and wipe over the bathrooms (a shining faucet and unspotted
mirror makes the whole room look cleaner) . You can get a lot done
in a short time if everyone pitches in. And hey--if the kid's rooms
are really awful--we just shut their doors :)

I was once obsessive-compulsive; even to the point of counting the
kids' blocks every night to be sure nothing was missing and having
certain places where every Fisher-Price "person" had to be placed
on the shelf, but I was burning myself out trying to be super-mom.
Not fun ! Now I figure that having a clean house is nice, and someday,
when the kids are grown and gone, I might actually have one, but it's
better to live in a relaxed house, and have fun together.

Enjoy-Donna (twyn) in PA

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: -- Presidential Visit --Good news! :)
      AUTHOR:  Jannarama
        DATE:  Friday, 5 November 1999, at 6:34 p.m.

 Response To:  -- Presidential Visit --
      Author:  Donna (twyn) in PA
        Date:  Friday, 5 November 1999, at 10:11 a.m.



Donna, what's funny is that *IF* the President came to visit, you
wouldn't have to rush around to get it cleaned so fast--he is ALWAYS
late to events!! Hubby is in the Army and works for White House communications--sets
up equipment and such and can attest to this! :) CST--you always thought
that meant "Central Standard Time"? Nope--now it means Clinton Standard
time! hehehe

One thing we do is try to keep the living room and bathroom 'guest
ready'--so we don't have to worry about those 2 areas if someone were
to visit unexpectedly.

As for laundry, we have gotten a scheduled down pat--we done one type
of laundry a day. Mondays it's whites, Tuesdays we wash light color
clothes, Wednesdays we wash brights, Thursday is for darks, Fridays
for towels and Saturdays we reserve for sheets/ other items (blankets,
curtains); Both my daughters sort their laundry, throw them in the
washer, fold them and put them away. It's so convenient because it's
just usually one load a day (dark clothes sometimes can consist of
2 loads.)

Have a good weekend! c-ya, Jannarama


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: How much do we bring on ourselves?
      AUTHOR:  Jannarama
        DATE:  Friday, 5 November 1999, at 6:38 p.m.

 Response To:  How much do we bring on ourselves?
      Author:  Karen
        Date:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 11:08 a.m.



Personally, we aren't involved in many exrtracurricular activities.
When my girls were in public school, they'd never really have time
since they were swamped by homework. We felt that the homework had
to be done before they could do the outside the home activities. My
daughter would miss church choir once in awhile since she was so slow
to complete her homework assignments.

Since we started homeschooling, my girls are doing more outside the
home w/ our homeschool support group's events than they ever did when
they were in public school!

c-ya, Jannarama

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Thank you for suggestions for math burnout?
      AUTHOR:  Jannarama
        DATE:  Friday, 5 November 1999, at 7:19 p.m.

 Response To:  suggestions for math burnout?
      Author:  Jannarama
        Date:  Monday, 1 November 1999, at 4:53 p.m.



I've been searching for some sites for math and found a couple: http://www.mathstories.com/
and http://www.ed.gov/pubs/parents/Math/mathhome.html

The latter one is actually a booklet that can be ordered, but it's
also on the web.

I was looking through some old workbooks I had and found one for pre-algebra.
My daughter will have this to do along with some other things I've
found on the net. I'm also going to check out the Key booklets that
were mentioned in another post.

Thanks again for sparking this for us!!

Jannarama

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: A Clean House, Organization and other Mysteries
of the Universe :-)
      AUTHOR:  Laura in SC
        DATE:  Friday, 5 November 1999, at 7:52 p.m.

 Response To:  A Clean House, Organization and other Mysteries of
the Universe :-)
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 9:59 a.m.



Giovanna, I think you are really on to something here. I never realized
how stress-and-burnout-inducing a cluttered house can be. On the other
hand, trying to keep a house spotless while homeschooling can also
lead to stress and burnout.

Two years ago we were living thru the nightmare of trying to homeschool
in a house that was on the market. Agents would literally call from
their cell phones, parked in front of the house, wanting to bring
a client in to show it. I loved being able to walk thru rooms without
stepping on Legos, knowing the dishes were either in the dishwasher
or the appropriate cupboard, not being embarrassed when friends stopped
by....

But, I absolutely hated nagging the boys all the time!

Since that time, we have moved, and most of the time we have achieved
a happy medium. For instance, tomorrow we are hosting a bday party
for our oldest son. We schooled this morning, and worked together
this afternoon to get the house ready. I was still able to lie down
for awhile to ease my back ache, and dh and the boys played ping pong
for awhile. In the past, we would have had to take several days off
of school to get ready. No exaggeration!!

We (dh and I) have come to an agreement on what our clutter limit
is. When we approach that, we take the time to do something about
it. We both begin to feel grumpy and stressed if there is too much
piling up. And the boys do, too, although they are not as aware of
it as we are.

No magic solution here --- it's really a matter of self discipline
and consistency in training the kids to help. Neither of which come
naturally to me, unfortunately. It is something we have to continually
work at.

Laura

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: I think maybe *I* am an unschooler who has had
her fairy dust shaken off !! =8-0
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Saturday, 6 November 1999, at 1:54 a.m.

 Response To:  Re: I think maybe *I* am an unschooler who has had
her fairy dust shaken off !! =8-0
      Author:  Kim from sidetracks
        Date:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 11:15 a.m.



Kim, I've had your post in the back of my mind for days. You brought
up some great questions, I thought.

> Can an unschooler do too little
> ?? 8-/

Maybe so, or maybe an unschooler can FEEL she's not doing enough,
and as a result, feel kind of crummy about everything in general.
There are so many ways to interpret this feeling, and who's to say
which ones come closest to the truth?

Sometimes, I think we just feel weird about giving up so much control.
If the days have a way of sliding by, one after another, and you're
not sure who's leading the pack, so to speak, it can bring about some
strong feelings of anxiety, true? Even if everything's actually going
along pretty smoothly, overall, we might feel as if the anvil is sure
to drop on our heads, sooner or later. Sometimes I've thought, "Cerelle,
it can't possibly be this easy. You must be doing it wrong."

Then again, WE (the moms) might be bored! When our kids are happily
learning on their own, without much help from us (thank you very much),
you could say we've finessed ourselves out of a job. And then what?
My answer is to forget about teaching the kids for the time being,
since they're doing such a fine job of teaching themselves, and have
fun learning or doing something that interests just me. Being the
excitable person I am, I usually get so involved in whatever I'm learning
about that I forget to worry about what my children may or may not
be learning across the room from me.

And sometimes, EVERYONE'S bored. The fairy dust really has fallen
off. I think even the most enthusiastic unschooling families in the
world go through stagnant periods when no one seems to feel like pursuing
anything. A dullness hangs over the house. Whether it's the fault
of the weather or nutrition or whatever, it's nearly always of limited
duration, and after everyone's happily involved in something again,
we can all look back at that time and think, "Whew, glad THAT'S past."

Yes, if the kids are happy, that DOES count for something. In fact,
it counts for a lot. Keep in mind that one thing you can always do
is keep that journal of their activities every day. This is often
a great solution because (1) it gives us something to do, even if
we're feeling a little bit useless as a "teacher," and (2) it forces
us to pay closer attention to all the things that are going on under
our own roof (or out on the town, for that matter). You may THINK
that all you're doing right now is reading the Hobbit aloud and working
on Christmas charities, but after a week's worth of serious journaling,
you might discover all sorts of other worthwhile and educational activities
that had been going unnoticed because they were seamlessly embedded
in the rhythm of the day.

If all else fails, you can always pick up the pace a little, just
to perk yourself up. Morning stretches to folk music from other lands?
A craft period every afternoon for a week? If you're really wanting
to feel like you're contributing something, you could plan a one-day
workshop for your own children.

And here's some fairy dust, comin' atcha! :-D

Cerelle

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  What a great topic....
      AUTHOR:  Christina
        DATE:  Saturday, 6 November 1999, at 8:37 a.m.

 Response To:  A Clean House, Organization and other Mysteries of
the Universe :-)
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 9:59 a.m.



>
> Giovanna I have 6 kids and also like the house to be neat. We have
only been homeschooling since January, before that as a SAHM I felt
that keeping their rooms picked up was all they could do. Boy have
I changed my mind! They range from 13 down to 3 and we have had a
really hard time getting them to pitch in. I find it necessary to
have two short periods a day where we neaten up. Also, lunch supplies
are plentiful and varied and everybody gets their own, with occasional
exceptions of course. They are improving, but still see it as some
type of unreasonable request on our part that they help clean up.
I have faith though! I do see a difference in the quality of their
work! We recently bought a storage shed and closet organizers and
that helped a lot. Thank God for the invention of the dishwasher!!!!

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Guests
      AUTHOR:  Kristen AKA curlywhirly
        DATE:  Saturday, 6 November 1999, at 2:28 p.m.

 Response To:  A Clean House, Organization and other Mysteries of
the Universe :-)
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 9:59 a.m.



The only thing that keeps our house clean is if we have guests!!!LOL

Last year we hosted a weekly bible study in our home, and so every
wednesday afternoon we spent cleaning up. It made me ruthless about
clutter control and assured that the basics got done each week~ bathrooms,
vacuuming, etc. There were still learning projects around, and school
stuff in evidence, but a deadline to have cleaning and basic clutter
cleaned up really helped our family, and motivated my boys to help
clean up. As soon as possible I am going to host it again so that
we have the motivation, it was so effective, and also a great way
to expose others to the joys of homeschooling!

~~(*-*)~~ Kristen

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Dr. Jekyll and Mrs. Hyde and how they apply to housework.
      AUTHOR:  Andrea in ME
        DATE:  Sunday, 7 November 1999, at 10:51 p.m.

 Response To:  A Clean House, Organization and other Mysteries of
the Universe :-)
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 9:59 a.m.



These posts are music to my ears. With 4 kids and a huge house, housekeeping
has been a constant struggle. In addition, in our homeschooling community
we are graced with families who somehow keep beautifullly clean and
neat houses!!! (In varying degrees, mind you, but mostly remarkable.)
How do they do it? I've asked myself many a time.

Two things have helped me though. One, the children got older, more
interested in beauty and order themselves and more capable of maintaining
it. Two, I learned how to be Dr. Jekyll and Mrs. Hyde. Dr. Jekyll
is the mom, teacher, counselor, warm and understanding, supportive,
nonjudgmental, mature. She deals with the homeschooling, emotional
and spiritual issues etc. etc. Mrs. Hyde is rigid, judgmental,and
totally non-understanding. She assigns housework and sees that it
is done! At first I was uncomfortable with this personality change
but it DID get the chores done and it's kind of therapeutic to get
your mean side out in a constructive way!! Thanks for all the great
posts!

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: True confessions & a life history
      AUTHOR:  Laurel
        DATE:  Monday, 8 November 1999, at 8:11 a.m.

 Response To:  True confessions & a life history
      Author:  Cerelle
        Date:  Wednesday, 3 November 1999, at 10:28 a.m.



You sound so much like me....LOL

I have books in boxes still sitting on the livingroom floor, and always
tons of soccer gear spread around the house.

My standard response to new visitors is 'please excuse my mess, I
was cleaning closets today!' hahaha

We have four children, who are all wonderful kids, but we stay so
busy that we never seem to have the time to put things back where
they belong. I do my best to clean the important things (kitchen,
bathrooms, etc) so that the germy areas get washed down often. It's
all the clutter that gets to me.

My mom once gave me an embroidery sampler that says:

Cleaning and scrubbing can wait til tomorrow, For babies grow up,
I've learned to my sorrow. So quiet down cobwebs. Dust go to sleep.
I'm rocking my baby, and babies don't keep.

Life is too short to spend it cleaning!

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Rx for clutter and organization
      AUTHOR:  Giovanna
        DATE:  Monday, 8 November 1999, at 10:55 a.m.



I'm searching for that "happy medium" that some of you have mentioned.
I don't like clutter and I don't think I could ever get used to it.
I really don't like what I see around here. I want to do something
about it. I don't want to institute MARSHAL LAW (grin) but still....
I can't get away from the fact that if we had a good system there
would never, ever be a need for MARSHAL LAW!

I started reading MANAGERS OF THE HOME. Good book! It's about scheduling.
Mind you, I have never been consistent with a schedule. Hate those
things! I've pondered about this and I see that I've always been very
inconsistent. Big character flaw of mine! And I'm tired of blaming
in on my "personality." It's a character flaw--plain and simple. I
wouldn't like it if my children acted this way but I tend to be soooo
easy on myself. But If I could make some kind of shcedule that was
livable. That could really help me!

Anyhow... back to the subject. CLUTTER.

I want to get organized! This book is good. I recommend it especially
to families with lots of children. It has a heavy Christian bent.
Lots of good ideas and scheduling sheets. organizing kit, and all
of that.

There is also the DON ASLET'S books. I've heard nothing but good things
about them.

Anyhow, I thought I would post this information in case some of you
were feeling like I am.

Here is the MANAGERS OF THE HOME website:

http:www.titus2.com

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Rx for clutter and organization
      AUTHOR:  Laura in SC
        DATE:  Monday, 8 November 1999, at 12:11 p.m.

 Response To:  Rx for clutter and organization
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Monday, 8 November 1999, at 10:55 a.m.



I've got MOTH as well. The best thing about it is that it was written
by a homeschooling mom of many children. I like Don Aslett, the Sidetracked
Home Executives, and others, but they don't have the insights into
our unique situation because they don't homeschool.

I am the Queen of Charts, lists, schedules. I love to plan them, create
them, mount them all over my house. Unfortunately, I have that same
character flaw so that I never implement them the way I ought to.

I am in the process of rethinking my MOTH-inspired schedule. I know
that for my family, due to our family chemistry, and dh's weird work
schedule, it would not be wise to try to "micro manage" my day into
30 minute segments. However, I do need to set out blocks of time for
school, chores, meals, sleep, etc. Our lives are chaotic because no
one knows what to expect when.

Laura

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  I loved this
      AUTHOR:  Deanne V.
        DATE:  Monday, 8 November 1999, at 7:10 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: I definetly agree.... time to cut back...(long)
      Author:  annie
        Date:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 2:38 a.m.



I loved reading all of this. Your "burnout FAQ" was great. It's exactly
what I've said to others at times, but I need someone to say that
to me, too! :-) Actually, we've done that several times over the years--either
due to time contraints, stress, or other stressful things happening
in *real* life. :-)

Deanne


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Rx for clutter and organization
      AUTHOR:  Jannarama
        DATE:  Monday, 8 November 1999, at 8:52 p.m.

 Response To:  Rx for clutter and organization
      Author:  Giovanna
        Date:  Monday, 8 November 1999, at 10:55 a.m.



I have MOTH (Managers of their homes) and I can say it has really
helped us with staying on a schedule where my girls get schooltime
and time to be with us and each other.

I'm not a person who does well by scheduling. I have ADD and my mind
floats from here to there to everywhere, but this scheduling system
is helping us get things done.

For organizing clutter, I recommend books by Deniece Schofield. "Confessions
of a Happily Organized Family" and "Confessions of an Organized Housewife."
She has a lot of good suggestions in each one, but they don't duplicate
each other.

Jeff Campbell has a "Speed Cleaning" method (http://www.thecleanteam.com)
which is pretty interesting.

I've been working on decluttering and cleaning for about 4 years now
and it's a tough battle!! I wish anyone luck in this endeavor!

c-ya, Jannarama

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  My personal, and imperfect solution to the problem
of time management.
      AUTHOR:  Andrea in ME
        DATE:  Monday, 8 November 1999, at 9:30 p.m.



>

> Boy, I can really relate to this conversation. When the kids were
smaller (my youngest is 10 now) I obsessed alot about scheduling and
organizing, read Aslett's books, tried and tried. I felt I had a character
flaw too, but now I think that although in fact I have many character
flaws, sticking to a schedule actually isn't one of them. The problem
was that my schedules were not compatible with the intrinsic nature
of me and my family. Just as the Sabbath was made for man (not man
for the Sabbath) so the schedule must be made for the family (not
the family for the schedule.)

Here's what I did--a year and a half ago--that finally, really worked:
I observed what we DID do, and how long it really DID take, and then
planeed a schedule that took into account our actual selves, not some
fantasy-people. I left time for pokeyness, family arguments, bad moods,
chatting, hanging out, spilled milk, all the stuff that REALLY happens.
I left plenty of time for meal cleanups, for example, and plenty of
staffing, too--I'm talking 45 minutes and 2-3 people! By my new "get
real" system, baby-nursing would be at LEAST a half-hour.

This meant less time allotted for school stuf but at least we really
did it and did it in an unhurried manner. Even with a get-real schedule,
I still had to be flexible when things went even more awry when they
generally do. I also had to nag and prod about the more unpleasant
things. But I have finally managed to kick that bad feeling that no
one is quite sure what's expected of them.

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Has anyone used the "7 Habits Organizer" based on Stephen
Covey's book "7 habits of Hightly Effective People"?
      AUTHOR:  Peg
        DATE:  Monday, 8 November 1999, at 9:41 p.m.



I've always used a week-at-a-glance planner, casually jotting down
appointments outside our home & recording some activities after they
happened.

My dd is only 6 so our hs program is still very simple. I keep a portfolio
with a one-page list of basic goals for the year in a three ring binder.
We have been very informal with her education so far, but would like
to start applying ourselves more seriously after the holidays are
over. As we get closer to New Year's Resolution time, I find we haven't
made much progress toward several of the goals we'd set last year.

A friend found this 7 Habits Organizer at a yard sale and I wonder
if it would help us reach our learning goals & keep to a schedule
better. It has a journal page opposite each daily planning page that
we could use to keep track of books read and other important stuff
that hasn't been getting recorded. It also has a weekly clip-in goals/roles
sheet to use as a bookmark/long-term planner.

I've read some of the instructions that came with it and it will take
some time to setup with all the long-term goal setting, planning,
mission statements, etc. I like Covey's basic ideas as outlined in
his books. We've never formally established goals as he suggests--yet
I feel we are successful members of a highly-effective family.

Do any of you have experience with this organizing system? What worked
& what didn't?

TIA,

Peg

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Guests
      AUTHOR:  Deanne V.
        DATE:  Tuesday, 9 November 1999, at 1:51 a.m.

 Response To:  Guests
      Author:  Kristen AKA curlywhirly
        Date:  Saturday, 6 November 1999, at 2:28 p.m.



This is true for us, too! For the last several years, we have lived
in places where we haven't had many, if any, guests at all! :-) However,
last summer we got new neighbors that we really "clicked" with--we
became friends right away!

All I can say is...thank goodness I had been on a cleaning spree the
week before they moved in. hehehe It was just my mid-summer "freak
out," but it just happened to happen right when they were moving in.
It was SO nice to be able to BE nice and offer to let them use my
phone and be helpful to them, without worrying about how I couldn't
ever let them *inside*. hehehe

I also joked to them, "Well, now you've seen our house neat and clean,
so later on you can remember this when you see how we *really* live."
:-)

Seriously, though, now I don't feel quite as bad as I might have when
they stop by unexpectedly, because they have seen my house neat and
know it's not this "awful" all the time. And knowing they *could*
stop by at any moment is a powerful incentive to picking up on a daily
basis and at least keeping more on top of things than I ever have
in the past.

Right now we have *almost* a happy medium. It's not quite as nice
as I would like it to be (LOL), but I am not really a clean freak.
I am more of a clutterer!!! However, every morning we pick up the
living room so it can be vacuumed (by my son). My daughter does the
dishwasher and I clean up the kitchen and do the floors. We have a
very small house, so that makes a difference too. It doesn't seem
like a big job. I confess that the bathrooms usually only get done
when my husband remembers to do it, but I hope to change that soon.
I feel like we are just about ready to add one more thing into our
"routine." :-)

And someone else mentioned closet organizers and things like that.
We have done that and we also got lots and lots of shelves as well.
I also got enough of those Rubbermaid (or other) plastic tubs for
the kids so *everything* now has a place. They have a much easier
time picking up in their rooms now, too--and because everything is
more organized for them, they don't have to make such a big mess looking
for things, either.

I will also confess that this is easier now that the kids are older,
too. I'm sure I couldn't have done this half as well when the kids
were younger. Now, though, not only can they help, but they are not
as messy as when they were little, and they are able to do more for
themselves (like get lunch, take care of their own clothes, etc.).
I still do the laundry, though they know how to help--it's just my
choice. But they all take care of their own clothes. I hang everything
on hangars so I don't have to fold anything. :-) I got that tip from
my sister who has four boys. :-)

Deanne

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Teens and Lack of Motivation (long)
      AUTHOR:  Donna (twyn) in PA
        DATE:  Tuesday, 9 November 1999, at 9:25 a.m.



Hi !

I am currently HS'ing two teens (DD-13; DS-15) and for the most part
everything is just peachy ! I enjoy reading about other families who
have continued HS'ing into the Jr. and Sr. High levels. However--I
will sometimes read a post and then start "beating myself up" with
feelings of inadequacy. Let me explain....

I have decided to let the children work at their own pace this year,
but they do have weekly expectations that they need to meet. They're
doing fine in this respect, but they only do what I ask for, they
do not branch out further in their studies, and they rarely come up
with something they'd like to explore on their own. They seem to enjoy
what we're studying, and work without complaining, and their test
scores were great, but I find myself wishing that they were more enthusiastic
and "self-starting".

I also read posts in here about teens who volunteer in shelters, who
are working towards their pilot's license, who are creating websites
for historical groups, who perform in concerts, have started their
own business and who play on sport's teams. My teens do not seem to
be interested in anything like this, and we have found few opportunities
in our area for "extras" that do not cost an arm and a leg.

Now--I admit that some of this is out of their control...the lack
of a second car makes weekday activities troublesome, we are new to
the area and have not found a support group yet, and I have a strong
adversity to competitive organized sports. I also have a relunctance
to "network" for them, and I will not force them into outside activites
that they show little desire to participate in. I want them to show
the interest first and then I'll be glad to help.

The kids are in Youth Groups at church, we're all attending weekend
Shakespere seminars, and my son is interning for Karl Bunday (yay
!) but that's it. Should I just lighten up and let the kids be ? How
important are these "extras" when it comes to college admissions ?
Is my own ego more important then their desires ? Is it unrealistic
to expect young teens to be enthusiastic about anything "scholarly"?
Am I the only Mom with teens who prefer on-line chatting and watching
the Cartoon network to saving the world ?

oooo-kay--that's enough whining.....I think I'll go help the kids
make some brownies now (hey now...they do like cooking !). Comments,
commiseration or advice would be most appreciated. Thanx !

Donna (twyn) in PA

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: I have experienced this, too (long)
      AUTHOR:  Susan K in Nevada
        DATE:  Tuesday, 9 November 1999, at 9:51 a.m.

 Response To:  Teens and Lack of Motivation (long)
      Author:  Donna (twyn) in PA
        Date:  Tuesday, 9 November 1999, at 9:25 a.m.



> Donna, I have a 12 yodd who frequently causes the same feelings
in me. Like your two, she did the work I give her, but no more. All
of her free time was spent on the Internet looking at (I can't believe
this) Sailor Moon Websites! I despaired of getting her interested
in anything besides this (to me) worthless and completely passive
activity. I posted my concerns to several boards and did some reading
on Cafi's web site. The prevailing opinion was to wait it out and
make sure she had opportunities to do other things. Just recently,
lo and behold, she has begun to spend her evenings writing. True,
she is now writing Sailor Moon stories, but hey!, it's a start!

Maybe your children's current interests will blossom into some new
activities. I share your reluctance to do your children's "networking"
for them. The few times I tried to find something for her to do, it
was rejected. This includes the homeschool group in our area. I go,
she doesn't.

Actually, I'm impressed by the fact that your children work to weekly
schedule of assignments. We are still on a daily schedule with lots
of input from me. I hope to work on that after Christmas. One thing
at a time.

Good luck, I'm sure you'll get lots of good comments from these ladies.
Susan K


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Those "super kids" you hear about...
      AUTHOR:  Lori
        DATE:  Tuesday, 9 November 1999, at 12:19 p.m.

 Response To:  Teens and Lack of Motivation (long)
      Author:  Donna (twyn) in PA
        Date:  Tuesday, 9 November 1999, at 9:25 a.m.



are the exceptions and NOT the rule! The reason you read about them
is that they are news-worthy; if it were normal no one would be interested!
It sounds like your kids are doing great. They aren't complaining
and they get things done when they are suppossed to.

Just MHO, Lori


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Motivation starts with love of subject.
      AUTHOR:  Marianne
        DATE:  Tuesday, 9 November 1999, at 6:52 p.m.

 Response To:  Teens and Lack of Motivation (long)
      Author:  Donna (twyn) in PA
        Date:  Tuesday, 9 November 1999, at 9:25 a.m.



>

> Hi !

> I am currently HS'ing two teens
> (DD-13; DS-15) and for the most part
> everything is just peachy ! I enjoy
> reading about other families who have
> continued HS'ing into the Jr. and Sr.
> High levels. However--I will sometimes
> read a post and then start "beating
> myself up" with feelings of inadequacy.
> Let me explain....

> I have decided to let the children
> work at their own pace this year, but
> they do have weekly expectations that
> they need to meet. They're doing fine
> in this respect, but they only do what
> I ask for, they do not branch out further
> in their studies, and they rarely come
> up with something they'd like to explore
> on their own. They seem to enjoy what
> we're studying, and work without complaining,
> and their test scores were great, but
> I find myself wishing that they were
> more enthusiastic and "self-starting".
>

> I also read posts in here about
> teens who volunteer in shelters, who
> are working towards their pilot's license,
> who are creating websites for historical
> groups, who perform in concerts, have
> started their own business and who play
> on sport's teams. My teens do not seem
> to be interested in anything like this,
> and we have found few opportunities
> in our area for "extras" that
> do not cost an arm and a leg.

> Now--I admit that some of this
> is out of their control...the lack of
> a second car makes weekday activities
> troublesome, we are new to the area
> and have not found a support group yet,
> and I have a strong adversity to competitive
> organized sports. I also have a relunctance
> to "network" for them, and
> I will not force them into outside activites
> that they show little desire to participate
> in. I want them to show the interest
> first and then I'll be glad to help.
>

> The kids are in Youth Groups at
> church, we're all attending weekend
> Shakespere seminars, and my son is interning
> for Karl Bunday (yay !) but that's it.
> Should I just lighten up and let the
> kids be ? How important are these "extras"
> when it comes to college admissions
> ? Is my own ego more important then
> their desires ? Is it unrealistic to
> expect young teens to be enthusiastic
> about anything "scholarly"?
> Am I the only Mom with teens who prefer
> on-line chatting and watching the Cartoon
> network to saving the world ?

> oooo-kay--that's enough whining.....I
> think I'll go help the kids make some
> brownies now (hey now...they do like
> cooking !). Comments, commiseration
> or advice would be most appreciated.
> Thanx !

> Donna (twyn) in PA

> Donna, Sometimes it can be difficult to get the interest up about
new things for any teenager. I homeschool my daughter and we have
our down times too. I believe all kids are "super kids" at times and
then again there are the times when they are just who they always
were, which is the most important. Sometimes it's easy for me to impose
too many expectations on my daughter when I hear about what "other"
mothers and their home schooled kids are doing or have done. I forget
that I'm not teaching a stranger, but I'm teaching my daughter. She's
a really great person, on her good and bad days. The best times we
have is when I let her interests outside of school intermingle in
with the rest of her work. That's the time when her individuality
and creativity soars. She likes Japanese animation so I have her write
about it, read about it and explore the culture where it came from.
Usually she will spend the extra down time doing this because it's
something she loves. On the other hand, I tried going over Civil War
history and it bombed. Until I brought in issues about rightness and
wrongness, fair and unfair. These are issues that her teen mind were
keen to since teens are often caught up in issues between what is
or isn't right or fair. I included examples from her school year before
and mentioned her nemisis. Then we could draw pictures about the Civil
War from her own efforts at school and how she had made both friends
and enemies in public school. Hope this helps. I'm not an Einstein
or "Super Mom" and often wished the latter on the tired days. I could
use advice myself... I need help finding adequate testing for the
end of the year and resources for finding a certified teacher.

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Every kid has their own timetable . . .
      AUTHOR:  Andrea in ME
        DATE:  Tuesday, 9 November 1999, at 11:00 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: Motivation starts with love of subject.
      Author:  Marianne
        Date:  Tuesday, 9 November 1999, at 6:52 p.m.



. . .and we have to trust they will blossom in their own time. My
eldest spent his teen years being very un-super-kiddy. Now he's in
college and wanting to go to medical school. The best thing we can
do during this time is work on NOT comparing our kids to other kids
(or ourselves to other moms). It takes REAL discipline but it also
sets a good example to our kids that they shouldn;t compare themselves
to other kids (or their moms to other moms!).

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Just one!
      AUTHOR:  Mrs. K
        DATE:  Wednesday, 10 November 1999, at 9:24 a.m.



I just have one kid. A wonderful (wild) 7yo 100+% B-O-Y! He is not
a good reader yet (but getting there) so he is not up to flying solo
with his book work. Because my time with him is more important, the
house suffers. We do daily chores, but they seem to repeat daily and
the big cleans don't get done (bathrooms, dusting, moping etc). And
he is old enough to learn but yooung enough to do a bad job when he
really tried to help do something . 3/4 of the time I have to go a
do it any way.

We do take about one day a month and just do the house work, but I
hate that. We generally have weird weekends, so the house is a bigger
mess on Mon. than it was on Fri.

Any suggestions on how do you keep a neat (does not have to be spotless)
house? and How to teach a 7yob to do house work well?

Thanks

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: What I have done
      AUTHOR:  Susan K in Nevada
        DATE:  Wednesday, 10 November 1999, at 9:36 a.m.

 Response To:  Just one!
      Author:  Mrs. K
        Date:  Wednesday, 10 November 1999, at 9:24 a.m.



>
> Any suggestions on how do you keep
> a neat (does not have to be spotless)
> house? and How to teach a 7yob to do
> house work well?

> Dear Mrs. K,

I also have one child, a 12 yodd. When she was that age, I had her
take turns with me when I would be doing housework. She was still
in ps then so we would be doing this on the weekends. By taking turns,
I could tactfully go over what she missed but got the chance to teach
her how. At seven, she enjoyed working with me enough to make this
a reasonably pleasant process.

Could you add "Living Skills" as a subject and dedicate some time
to teaching him how? We have actually added this as a subject to our
daily schedule and spend approx. 1 hour doing chores before our school
day begins. We are relaxed homeschoolers, but I do try for some housework
every day. Now that my dd is older, I can assign tasks for her to
do alone.

Good luck, Susan K

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: What I have done
      AUTHOR:  Kim from sidetracks
        DATE:  Wednesday, 10 November 1999, at 10:33 a.m.

 Response To:  Re: What I have done
      Author:  Susan K in Nevada
        Date:  Wednesday, 10 November 1999, at 9:36 a.m.



I have found that my kids (especially the boys ) are attracted to
the TOOLS of cleaning. Not being one to muss and fuss I never really
had all the equipment... but HECK ! if the kid is longing over a duster...

And spray cleaner ! I spray down the whatever and the kids scrub.
A little spray cleaner goes a long way. And sometimes kid size equipment
helps in the job, too.


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Superkids? 99% of the time, they look like Clark Kent!
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Wednesday, 10 November 1999, at 10:38 a.m.

 Response To:  Teens and Lack of Motivation (long)
      Author:  Donna (twyn) in PA
        Date:  Tuesday, 9 November 1999, at 9:25 a.m.



This is such a great question because it exposes one of the real paradoxes
in homeschooling support. If one parent tries to reassure another
parent by pointing out all the cool things her kids do or have ***eventually***
done -- on their own, without being coerced or pushed or curriculummed
to death (yeah, yeah, I know curriculum isn't a verb! LOL!) -- these
testimonials CAN backfire and have the opposite effect of what was
intended.

I understand it, and I've been there, too. But the thing to keep in
mind is that when any of us brag about our "superkids," we're probably
leaving out MOST of the story. And possibly the most important part
of the story, too.

You know Superman? He's really impressive when he's in that slick
leotard, flying around and stopping bullets, but for the overwhelming
majority of his time, he's just geeky old Clark Kent, looking pretty
pedestrian. It's the same way with the homeschool poster kids, or
at least, it's sure that way with mine, who have a way of sounding
fabulous when I write about them. (What am I saying? Of course they
ARE fabulous! Ha ha!) But what I mean is that it could be that the
louder some of us "brag," the more worried we were, once upon a time.
Yes, my oldest daughter is over halfway through college, and yes,
she was accepted by all the ones she applied to, and yes, before that,
she had terribly impressive internships and apprenticeships, and yes,
she did very interesting and exciting things during her teen years.
But! BUT!!! Let's please not forget that this is the same child who
spent an entire winter playing solitaire on the floor of her room!

Sure, my son wrote a fan letter to an Australian physicist...and the
next thing we knew, that physicist was coming to speak to our homeschooling
group in Texas! Boy, that sounds pretty impressive, doesn't it? Nothing
in that anecdote lets you know that my son would rather be boiled
in oil than miss a single episode of The Simpsons, and that every
time I say "algebra," he says, "Yikes! I'm outta here."

We homeschooling mothers tend not to share the kind of information
that makes our kids "look bad," unless we're currently very worried
about them and seeking advice. THEN we dig all the skeletons out of
their messy closets. The rest of the time, we're so relieved that
our faith in them (and in homeschooling) really was justified after
all, we can hardly stop crowing about all their wonderful successes.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Pollyanna.
If there's one little thing to be happy or hopeful about, I'll find
it and latch onto it. I think that's what kept me going through all
the times when it looked like my kids might have to settle for careers
as made-for-TV movie reviewers or Black Jack dealers!

Here's a current example. My 17yo has just burned herself out. (We've
all been afraid this would happen for a long time.) Right now, she's
not sure she wants to go to college at all, and she definitely doesn't
want to go anytime soon. She's too sick most of the time to feel like
doing much of anything. She still does all the cake-baking for a coffee
shop in the city, and she still works 2 shifts per week at the museum
(believe it or not, this is AFTER a drastic cut-back on her part),
but she's not very excited about any of it. Lately, she's been lying
on the sofa 'til all hours of the morning, watching infomercials!
No fooling! However, she has also hired a college-student friend to
tutor her in math. They meet once a week, and she's practically bubbly
about the progress she's making in algebra.

When I talk to people, I tend to say, "Wow, I can't believe this,
but Laurel has hired herself a math tutor and she's all excited about
algebra." I don't always remember to mention that she's also watching
infomercials late at night and feeling thoroughly ambivalent about
college right now.

Please keep all of this in mind the next time you hear or read about
some whiz-bang homeschooled kid. The whiz-bang part is often only
ONE part of the whole story.

Cerelle

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  What i would do
      AUTHOR:  katie
        DATE:  Wednesday, 10 November 1999, at 1:35 p.m.

 Response To:  Just one!
      Author:  Mrs. K
        Date:  Wednesday, 10 November 1999, at 9:24 a.m.



Make Monday Life Skills Day, don't do regular school work. Spend the
day doing each job together that way he's supervised and he's learning
right along with you. One child is a lot easier than five let me tell
you.

> I just have one kid. A wonderful
> (wild) 7yo 100+% B-O-Y! He is not a
> good reader yet (but getting there)
> so he is not up to flying solo with
> his book work. Because my time with
> him is more important, the house suffers.
> We do daily chores, but they seem to
> repeat daily and the big cleans don't
> get done (bathrooms, dusting, moping
> etc). And he is old enough to learn
> but yooung enough to do a bad job when
> he really tried to help do something
> . 3/4 of the time I have to go a do
> it any way.

> We do take about one day a month
> and just do the house work, but I hate
> that. We generally have weird weekends,
> so the house is a bigger mess on Mon.
> than it was on Fri.

> Any suggestions on how do you keep
> a neat (does not have to be spotless)
> house? and How to teach a 7yob to do
> house work well?

> Thanks

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Teens and Lack of Motivation (long)
      AUTHOR:  katie
        DATE:  Wednesday, 10 November 1999, at 1:42 p.m.

 Response To:  Teens and Lack of Motivation (long)
      Author:  Donna (twyn) in PA
        Date:  Tuesday, 9 November 1999, at 9:25 a.m.



Yea, i would relax. Your son is doing three different "extra" things,
why should he need more? He's only thirteen. I'd make suggestions
when you think of something, tell them about it and let them go from
there. I didn't do a lot of extra curricular activites in High School
and I was accepted to all three colleges that I applied to. They'll
be fine Katie

> Hi !

> I am currently HS'ing two teens
> (DD-13; DS-15) and for the most part
> everything is just peachy ! I enjoy
> reading about other families who have
> continued HS'ing into the Jr. and Sr.
> High levels. However--I will sometimes
> read a post and then start "beating
> myself up" with feelings of inadequacy.
> Let me explain....

> I have decided to let the children
> work at their own pace this year, but
> they do have weekly expectations that
> they need to meet. They're doing fine
> in this respect, but they only do what
> I ask for, they do not branch out further
> in their studies, and they rarely come
> up with something they'd like to explore
> on their own. They seem to enjoy what
> we're studying, and work without complaining,
> and their test scores were great, but
> I find myself wishing that they were
> more enthusiastic and "self-starting".
>

> I also read posts in here about
> teens who volunteer in shelters, who
> are working towards their pilot's license,
> who are creating websites for historical
> groups, who perform in concerts, have
> started their own business and who play
> on sport's teams. My teens do not seem
> to be interested in anything like this,
> and we have found few opportunities
> in our area for "extras" that
> do not cost an arm and a leg.

> Now--I admit that some of this
> is out of their control...the lack of
> a second car makes weekday activities
> troublesome, we are new to the area
> and have not found a support group yet,
> and I have a strong adversity to competitive
> organized sports. I also have a relunctance
> to "network" for them, and
> I will not force them into outside activites
> that they show little desire to participate
> in. I want them to show the interest
> first and then I'll be glad to help.
>

> The kids are in Youth Groups at
> church, we're all attending weekend
> Shakespere seminars, and my son is interning
> for Karl Bunday (yay !) but that's it.
> Should I just lighten up and let the
> kids be ? How important are these "extras"
> when it comes to college admissions
> ? Is my own ego more important then
> their desires ? Is it unrealistic to
> expect young teens to be enthusiastic
> about anything "scholarly"?
> Am I the only Mom with teens who prefer
> on-line chatting and watching the Cartoon
> network to saving the world ?

> oooo-kay--that's enough whining.....I
> think I'll go help the kids make some
> brownies now (hey now...they do like
> cooking !). Comments, commiseration
> or advice would be most appreciated.
> Thanx !

> Donna (twyn) in PA

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: What I have done
      AUTHOR:  carol
        DATE:  Wednesday, 10 November 1999, at 3:31 p.m.

 Response To:  Re: What I have done
      Author:  Kim from sidetracks
        Date:  Wednesday, 10 November 1999, at 10:33 a.m.



> I have found that my kids (especially
> the boys ) are attracted to the TOOLS
> of cleaning. Not being one to muss and
> fuss I never really had all the equipment...
> but HECK ! if the kid is longing over
> a duster...

> And spray cleaner ! I spray down
> the whatever and the kids scrub. A little
> spray cleaner goes a long way. And sometimes
> kid size equipment helps in the job,
> too.

> well what works for us is that we take one day a week and do all
the cleaning and afterward we go out maybe for icecream or to the
park or library this way it doesnt seem like much work. also with
one big dog and one small puppy and military husband and two kids
15 and 5 i know my house will nevr be clean what is important is time
with my kids..good luck carol

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  I have one...
      AUTHOR:  Laura in CT
        DATE:  Wednesday, 10 November 1999, at 7:26 p.m.

 Response To:  Has anyone used the "7 Habits Organizer" based on Stephen
Covey's book "7 habits of Hightly Effective People"?
      Author:  Peg
        Date:  Monday, 8 November 1999, at 9:41 p.m.



I recently bought a Franklin Planner and I'm finding it helpful. I
started setting goals, etc., but have more to do on that. Mostly it
was the impetus I needed to get in the habit of writing things down
and then reading what I've written (when library books are due, who
I'm supposed to call, etc.). I make out a to-do list every day, jot
down what we do as we do it, and keep lists in it.

The one I have fits into a purse, so I carry it everywhere, which
was my chief requirement in a planner. It cost a fortune, but I'm
happily organized now!


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Is anybody lonely???
      AUTHOR:  vicki in nc
        DATE:  Wednesday, 10 November 1999, at 7:45 p.m.



I'm in my 2nd year of hs one child. Everything is child focused. Field
trips, reading literature, swim team even support group. Now don't
misunderstand, I love homeschooling . I love having my child with
me but I don't do anything for me.Sometimes life can be lonely and
I don't have many friends outside of the hs community and some church
friends.I'm not a single parent but hubby works out of town lots.
Don't mean to sound whiney, but is anybody lonely? Is this a homeschool
phenom or just as I hear so much a season of my life? This can be
burnout for me, and I then begin to question whether I just need to
go back to work. It passes, but is creeping up lots.Any ideas? thanks,
vicki in nc

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Is anybody lonely???
      AUTHOR:  Debbie G.
        DATE:  Wednesday, 10 November 1999, at 8:31 p.m.

 Response To:  Is anybody lonely???
      Author:  vicki in nc
        Date:  Wednesday, 10 November 1999, at 7:45 p.m.



I know your feeling well. My husband works an off shift, which means
that most means of outside support or adult time are off limits for
me. I no longer go to church small group or bible studies and the
homeschool meetings for support are at night too. I could hire a babysitter
for these times, but that means the children do not go to bed until
I get home and drive the babysitter home and then rush the kids inside
to bed. The next day is full of tired and cranky people. I do get
to spend time with my husband in the mornings and occassionally I
go out for a little bit by myself, but this is our optimal school
time so I try not to do it very often. I realize that I am not giving
you a solution, but I guess we can take comfort in knowing we are
not alone. I have a friend with children in public school and we try
to get together so the children can play and we can visit. This doesn't
happen very often, but it is nice when it does. My other issue besides
the loneliness is that I don't think that people really understand
what I do all day. My daughter requires a special diet which requires
a lot of homemade cooking - no meals out of a can here!! Most people
outside the homeschool group are not homeschooling and are not cooking
like crazy. My house is not neat and wonderful and I am still dancing
as fast as I can. One thing I can offer is something I heard on my
Christian radio station the other day. The man was speaing of Nehemiah
who was re-building the wall of the city and when asked by the enemy
to come down for a meeting, Nehemiah looked around and said "I am
doing a great work and can not come down." We are truly doing a great
work with our children and sometimes that means we "can not come down".
Thanks for letting me vent and commisserate!!

DEB
> I'm in my 2nd year of hs one child.
> Everything is child focused. Field trips,
> reading literature, swim team even support
> group. Now don't misunderstand, I love
> homeschooling . I love having my child
> with me but I don't do anything for
> me.Sometimes life can be lonely and
> I don't have many friends outside of
> the hs community and some church friends.I'm
> not a single parent but hubby works
> out of town lots. Don't mean to sound
> whiney, but is anybody lonely? Is this
> a homeschool phenom or just as I hear
> so much a season of my life? This can
> be burnout for me, and I then begin
> to question whether I just need to go
> back to work. It passes, but is creeping
> up lots.Any ideas? thanks, vicki in
> nc

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  ditto, that....
      AUTHOR:  Peg
        DATE:  Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 6:59 a.m.

 Response To:  Is anybody lonely???
      Author:  vicki in nc
        Date:  Wednesday, 10 November 1999, at 7:45 p.m.



Just about everything in my life is child focused also. Even "my"
activities include her, since I choose not to use non-family babysitters.

There are days I really crave some time alone and I escape into a
book, but then feel guilty for letting my only child sit in her room
playing alone for a couple hours.

I find that I tend to overschedule "her" activities just so I can
get out of the house & talk to other adults. I just realized next
week we have appointments of one kind or an other 4 days in a row.
I know I'll be exhausted by Friday but not only am I isolated because
of lifestyle choice but also location and planned activities are the
only way she gets to play with other kids.

I think it's just a season of our lives, as one of my non-hs friends
complains of having the same feelings and over the past three years
has had a series of small jobs, even though her youngest child is
still in diapers.

I'm hoping that once my dd can read well enough to follow directions,
then homeschooling will be a little easier. Right now, I have to guide
her through her work.

Later, we'll miss this part of our lives...

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  A hundred years from now it will not matter what my
bank account was, the sort of house I lived in, or the kind of car
I drove, but the world may be different because I was important in
the life of a child."
      AUTHOR:  Peg
        DATE:  Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 7:03 a.m.



My other favorite fridge magnet says: "Dull women have immaculate
houses"

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Great Post annie...
      AUTHOR:  Tracey
        DATE:  Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 7:46 a.m.

 Response To:  Re: I definetly agree.... time to cut back...(long)
      Author:  annie
        Date:  Tuesday, 2 November 1999, at 2:38 a.m.



We have found cutting back and enjoying each other has helped alot
with stress. Sometimes we dont realize how *busy* we have become.
Especially if we are busy doing good things. Have a great day!

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Motivation.....for ME ?
      AUTHOR:  Lee
        DATE:  Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 8:14 a.m.



Some of my kids are more motivated than I am lately. I find it hard
to get up the gumption to check their work from day to day. Seems
like so many activities and situations are taking us away from a routine,
it feels pointless to try. Wish I knew how to find order in the middle
of chaos.

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Only kids, only families, only moms
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 9:58 a.m.

 Response To:  ditto, that....
      Author:  Peg
        Date:  Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 6:59 a.m.



> There are days I really crave some
> time alone and I escape into a book,
> but then feel guilty for letting my
> only child sit in her room playing alone
> for a couple hours.

I pulled this one sentence out of the stack first, simply because
I was an only child (once upon a time) and might be able speak to
this concern. Everyone worries about only children being lonely, which
is natural, but I have a feeling most children (only or otherwise)
appreciate having a little time alone now and then -- just as grownups
do. I remember having wonderful times all by myself! If anyone ever
felt sorry for me or guilty on my account, it was probably misplaced
sorrow and guilt. I'd encourage you to enjoy those times on the sofa
with a good book (any time you can get them!), and instead of feeling
bad about it, just congratulate yourself for setting a good example
for your daughter. There are a lot worse things you could be doing,
after all.

Your own loneliness is a different problem. I've been in the same
boat sometimes, living out in the country as we do, often having unreliable
transportation and/or no funds to draw on for our activities. (Even
a trip to the zoo or the science museum was often too expensive when
the children were small.) You're right about the "season" -- I don't
think anyone in our society is as isolated as mothers of young children.
Of course not all moms are painfully isolated, but since the dispersal
of the extended family, our culture really hasn't found a way to make
sure young mothers get the social backing and support they need. For
contrast, look at my partner here, Giovanna, who lives in a family
cluster: her parents live on one side of her, and her sister (and
her family) live on the other. There's always someone available to
help out with the kids, and Giovanna has adult companions available
throughout the day, if she wishes to avail herself of them. She doesn't
even feel the need for a car of her own! Imagine!

But how many of us live like that anymore? We have to reconstruct
that kind of family support for ourselves by finding people we have
something in common with and establishing relationships with them.
No matter how hard we work at it, it's not likely to happen overnight,
or even in a year or two. Meanwhile, we're like "only children" --
only we're "only moms," instead, struggling to raise our families
without other mothers at our sides, sharing the work and the fun.
(Plus, we were conditioned to be with our age-peers all the time in
school. Then we get married, have kids, and boom! We're on our own,
alone! What happened?)

I remember signing up my first child for Mother's Day Out when she
was a toddler -- not so much because I wanted to get away from her,
but because I was so desperate to meet other mothers. I didn't know
anyone, and we lived in a very isolated situation.

I don't know, Peg -- you'll muddle through these years somehow! Thank
goodness for the Internet, huh? :-D

Cerelle

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Child focus vs. family focus
      AUTHOR:  Cerelle
        DATE:  Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 10:44 a.m.

 Response To:  Is anybody lonely???
      Author:  vicki in nc
        Date:  Wednesday, 10 November 1999, at 7:45 p.m.



Vicki, my response to Peg (below) is for you, too, but I had one other
thought...

I know exactly what you mean when you talk about focusing exclusively
on the child. Frankly, I don't think it's always healthy -- for us
OR for them! This is one of those fine, fine lines, though, and I'm
worried some folks might misinterpret what I'm trying to say, so don't
anybody go jumping down my throat! LOL!

I DON'T mean that I think parents should go exercise at the gym all
day while their kids languish in daycare. Horrors! But if a mother
needs to find time for exercise -- so she can feel better, be stronger,
and live longer -- well, surely that's a valid need the whole family
can go to work on, just as the family tries to meet the needs of the
child(ren). Who knows what the solution might be? A walking club made
up of neighbors with similar needs? A new vegetable garden in the
backyard? An hour of yoga each morning before the rest of the family
wakes up? A family membership at the Y? The point is that an answer
is out there, somewhere, but we have to be looking for it in order
to find it. And that may never happen if we think we have to focus
only on what our kids need.

If what you wish you had right now, Vicki, is a really *close* friend
-- someone you haven't found yet among your church or homeschooling
friends -- that's a very important and valid request! If you saw a
similar longing in your child, you'd be rolling up your sleeves and
getting to work, I'll bet. You'd be brainstorming, trying to think
of some solution you might have overlooked. And I think it's just
as important to do that for ourselves as it is to do it for our kids.

And we should have our own absorbing interests, I believe. When we
take our kids to the library, are we just helping them look for THEIR
books...or do we have a list of books WE want to read? Every minute
of the day, we're setting an example for our children. Kindness and
thoughtfulness are wonderful examples to set, but total "selflessness"
means NOT HAVING A SELF! Yikes! I don't know about you, but I think
that's pretty scary. If I don't have a sense of self, what am I teaching
my kids?

I'm sure there's some great metaphor out there, just waiting to be
used...like "If families were salads, mothers would be the lettuce
-- they should always be fresh and interesting." Ha ha ha! Boy, that
was pretty bad...but you know what I mean, I hope. (What a silly mood
I'm in today!)

Cerelle

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Re: Only kids, only families, only moms
      AUTHOR:  Peg
        DATE:  Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 10:48 a.m.

 Response To:  Only kids, only families, only moms
      Author:  Cerelle
        Date:  Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 9:58 a.m.



> You're right
> about the "season" -- I don't
> think anyone in our society is as isolated
> as mothers of young children,.

I know someone who quit hs-ing after 4 months supposedly because of
the clutter, but I suspect the isolation was as much to blame.

Thanks for your insight into the only child thing. You're absolutely
right about it. Both my parents are onlies (sp?) and despite having
a younger brother I spent most of my childhood alone here on the farm.
I just wonder, sometimes, how much alone time is healthy. Guess it
just depends on the person/family.

>I remember signing up my first child for >Mother's Day Out when she
was a toddler -- not >so much because I wanted to get away from her,
>but because I was so desperate to meet other >mothers

I tried this last summer & discovered that the other mothers just
drop the kids off & vanish! I have better luck at activities for hs'ers,
as the moms seem to hang around more than public school moms.

> I don't know, Peg -- you'll muddle
> through these years somehow! Thank goodness
> for the Internet, huh? :-D

And look back with fond memories of it all. My dd's not a baby anymore
& her childhood is rushing past. 

Yes, thank goodness for the Internet. This is a great support group
with the most knowledgable & considerate participants I've found.

Where I live the hs support groups seem to be exclusive groups based
on different religious denominations or teaching methods. Some are
blatant about it and require participants to sign contracts. Others
are more subtle about keeping themselves segregated.

Is it like that in your area?


               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Mom's would be like lettuce, supporting the sprouts,
but with plenty of crunch of their own!
      AUTHOR:  Peg
        DATE:  Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 10:53 a.m.

 Response To:  Child focus vs. family focus
      Author:  Cerelle
        Date:  Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 10:44 a.m.



> Kindness
> and thoughtfulness are wonderful examples
> to set, but total "selflessness"
> means NOT HAVING A SELF! Yikes! I don't
> know about you, but I think that's pretty
> scary. If I don't have a sense of self,
> what am I teaching my kids?

You're absolutely right, Cerelle!

> I'm sure there's some great metaphor
> out there, just waiting to be used...like
> "If families were salads, mothers
> would be the lettuce -- they should
> always be fresh and interesting."
> Ha ha ha! Boy, that was pretty bad...but
> you know what I mean, I hope. (What
> a silly mood I'm in today!)

Better "fresh & interesting" than green & soggy!

Thanks for the chuckle.

Peg

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  BAD DAY!!!!!
      AUTHOR:  Kim
        DATE:  Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 12:20 p.m.



My DS hates and I means hates to write. He is doing BF ancient history
and has written the paper on Ancient Egypt. I stoped using "Writing
the Novel Way, because he hated it. I told him for the month of Dec.
I would just let him write what he wanted ( without prompts) He said
he liked to write that way. As a prelude we decided to journal this
month for 10 min a day. Well we haven't been so good about it, but
today when I asked him to complete his journal, he started about how
he hates writing and can't remember some letters in cursive. When
the pencil was throw across the room, I HAD it and lost my temper!
Write now I just want to throw in the towel. I just don't feel right
about NO Writing at all. Even doesn't even like to answer questions
in written form. He is a bright 6th grader(gifted) but anything that
takes time and effort is met with an arguement! I know if I express
this with my husband one more time, he will tell me its time to send
him to a private school! ANY SUGGESTIONS!!

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  Ask Him Some Questions....
      AUTHOR:  Donna (twyn) in PA
        DATE:  Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 1:10 p.m.

 Response To:  BAD DAY!!!!!
      Author:  Kim
        Date:  Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 12:20 p.m.



Have you asked your son just what it is that he hates about writing
? Is it the entire process or just one part ? How does he do when
typing or using the computer ? Will he dictate stories or essays to
you or into a tape recorder ? Is he frustrated by the "mechanics"
or by not knowing how to get started ? Does writing hurt his hand
?

Some children have a difficult time getting their ideas from their
heads to the paper. It takes so long and uses so much concentration.
They might know what they want to say in an essay or report--but they
just can't find the right words. Creative writing is usually more
fun, but can be frustrating too--the great story they're composing
goes out of their brain when they suddenly have to think about just
what a cursive capital "B" is supposed to look like or whether the
quotes go after the question mark or before. Others (personal story
here) are perfectionistic and agonize over every little word, every
possible mistake, holding the pen too tight in their nervous little
fist so that, after about 5 minutes, writing by "hand" turns into
torture.

Once you know just what it is that bothers him, maybe everyone here
can brainstorm and come up with some better suggestions. I'm sure
you want your son to reach a point where writing is fun and enjoyable,
and not just a chore to do 'cause Mom says to do it. My "gut instinct"
would be to back off for a while and see what happens. I do think
some written work is important, but I'd let him use the computer (or
type) as much as possible if he does better with it, and to go easy
on little mistakes on anything but actual spelling or grammar papers.
I really think that some children are natural writers and some are
not...just as some may gravitiate towards math or sciences instead.
The hard part is knowing when to push and when to nurture a reluctant
writer.

Hope this helps a little bit :)

Donna (twyn) in PA

               ========================================

     MESSAGE:  The FLIP side of this
      AUTHOR:  Giovanna
        DATE:  Thursday, 11 November 1999, at 1:32 p.m.

 Response To:  Is anybody lonely???
      Author:  vicki in nc
        Date:  Wednesday, 10 November 1999, at 7:45 p.m.



> I'm in my 2nd year of hs one child.
> Everything is child focused. Field trips,
> reading literature, swim team even support
> group. Now don't misunderstand, I love
> homeschooling . I love having my child
> with me but I don't do anything for
> me.

Change it! It doesn't have to be this way!!!! You need TLC as much
as your child does.

>Sometimes life can be lonely and
> I don't have many friends outside of
> the hs community and some church friends.I'm
> not a single parent but hubby works
> out of town lots.

Let me tell you my story.

In order for me to start hsing I gave up my job. To make our budget
align after the loss of that income I had to give up my vehicle.

Imagine this:

I had no car, I lived out in the country so I couldn't just hop on
the bus and go downtown to the park, my husband worked full time and
he was going to grad school at night. He was never home.

My only adult companion was my sister who lived 2 1/2 acres down.
Thank God for the Internet!

You know what though? I have enjoyed the peace that comes from not
having a car more than anyone can imagine!!! No running around, no
activities to run to, no more "must be at" functions. It has been
great---so great that we decided not to get a second car. :-) I won't
have it!

I did start a home business which has allowed me to use my brains
in a different way and to get a little dressed up every once in a
while. It saved me from becoming a total home body. (grin) That has
been very nice. Hubby is no longer in grad school so he is home A
LOT more.

Now I realize that not everyone would enjoy my lifestyle. What I'm
trying to say though is that you can make the BEST of the situation
you have. What would you like to have? Some time to yourself? Make
it happen. See if one of your friends will watch your child in exchange
for you watching her child. Depending on daddy's schedule, maybe he
can take your child out--just the two of them---one night a week.

Take up a new hobby!

Whatever it takes to get your life a little more perked up. You can
do it!

Giovanna


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